Key concepts and questions
Vaikunthanath das (IDS)
Respected Vaisnavas, please accept my humble obeisances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
1. Varnashrama had never existed in the form of public organization.
It only can be fully fledged, at least, on the scale of the state. We,
unfortunately, have no such a luxury yet, therefore, IMHO, we should
speak about creation of intermediate model of varnashrama within the
limits of public organization, that is, of the society in which
elements of varnashrama would be present as far as possible, maybe,
even some pure varnashrama institutes will be replaced with their
analogues. For example, the king may be replaced with an operating
committee and so on.
2. May ISKKON in its present condition become an organization in whose
frameworks varnasrama can be carried out? Unequivocally - no. At least
for the reason, that there is no comprehensible control system in
ISKKON for this purpose. ISKKON today is insolvent even simply as the
organization. What to speak about its role of «the state in the
state», that Prabhupada wished to see? However it is possible to
construct an intermediate model of varnashrama within the limits of
ISKKON, provided, that ISKCON will be radically reformed and
re-structured. Otherwise it is necessary to create other supporting
organization.
3. From numerous discussions in this conference it is visible, that
there are insoluble contradictions at minds of some participants - how
to combine spiritual and material. It is quiet natural, for it always
was the most difficult - to combine what seems to be incompatible.
After all for this purpose it is necessary to look at the reality
under different angle. How to combine varnashrama with its dharma,
artha, kama and moksa, and spiritual practice resulting in
daivi-varnashrama? Is there a place for material pleasures in
daivi-varnashrama? The answer is simple, if read attentively sastras,
and it consists of two points.
1. Varnashrama was created by Krishna as an ideal society
system, which provides possibility for the further spiritual
development to EACH person, irrespectively of his or her
level. There is no other sense in varnashrama.
2. The only question is: how quickly each person wishes to
grow spiritually:
1. The slowest way is karma-kanda plus varnashrama (a
lot of lives).
2. Faster way -- karma-yoga plus varnashrama (tens
lives).
3. The fastest way -- bhakti-yoga plus varnashrama
(one or several lives)
As all the three ways are authorized by the Lord, we can say, that in
some sense all of them are daivi-varnashrama. For clearness we name
the first way simply varnashrama, and the second and the third -
daivi-varnashrama. And it is up to the living being what to choose.
Thus, possibly, first two ways can be carried out only in state
scales. And the third way for which Dhaneshvara Prabhu and
Prabhupada-das Prabhu stand up -- only on the scale of some
communities in the territory of this state, and it’s a choice, too.
4. Too much time and forces in this conference are spent on disputes
on position of money in our life. If these disputes continue like
this, they will not end forever. It is ineffective. Unfortunately, a
trouble of all the righteous is that they are so righteous that cannot
solve who is the most righteous of them, and consequently, unlike
demons, till now are not capable to unite and start making common job.
As far as I can understand, if we look in a root, then, irrespectively
of the topic, all the disputes here are conducted around one thing --
which ways of sense satisfaction are lawful from the point of view of
Vedas and which are not. Let's define once and forever, if money are
the evil or not. Let’s do it, at least, for simplification of our
dialogue within the limits of this conference, let's accept the common
decision of the given group about position of money. The minority can,
if they want, leave the group and allow others to communicate
positively, or “in sectarian way”, perhaps. Otherwise, after all this
literary writing and reading, we’ll not find any time to do something
useful. I suggest to make such decisions on key concepts and
questions.
5. So, here is my opinion concerning money. If we speak about money as
about wealth in general, it is undoubtedly necessary and cannot be
evil: as we know, spirituality in this world is supported by wealth,
and wealth -- by spirituality. The wealth obtained illegally is
short-living, and consequently it is not wealth, and carries only
troubles - both to individuals, and to society as a whole. If to
consider money as a modern financial system with its convertible
currency it, undoubtedly, is evil and carries only troubles. All the
amount of money on the earth is not wealth for it is created illegally
at the expense of sufferings of billions of people and other living
beings for last two hundred and fifty years. All this money is bloody,
and we never can wash them completely, even using them in devoted
service. To create wealth in the pure state, with pure money, if you
like it so much, you must only change the System. Otherwise you need
to leave this System and to create the alternative. The given System
exists for specific goals, namely, for enslavement of the countries
and the people, destruction of half of population of a planet and the
statement of the unlimited power of demoniac forces over all the
world. Therefore this monetary system will never work on us. It is
time to go down from heavens onto the earth. In this System there are
no absolutely lawful, ethic and pure ways of earning money. For this
reason any business in the frameworks (that is, by rules and laws) of
this System is unacceptable for Vaisnavas and in general for the
people, who follow spiritual path. It strongly profanes consciousness
and withdraws us from our spiritual purposes. And even moreover.
For some people my following statement will seem to be too radical,
but I am sure, that there are also those who will agree with me. I
assert, that living on rules of dominating culture (anti-culture), we,
to some extent are accomplices of a global crime, supporting this
system with all our lives and activities. All these troubles and
misfortunes are perpetrated on our tacit consent. Tolstoy said, that
not doing right things is worse, than doing wrongs. I think, that the
root of our sin is that we care only of our own benefit, instead of
that of the others. Even under the plea of our great philosophy. I
consider, that at the given stage, being strongly dependent on
dominating system, we have, to some extent, the right to use modern
money. But in any way NOT FOR SENSE GRATIFICATION, and if not to
change the System, then to escape from it. It is what Prabhupada
advised about getting of money: to make an axe-handle from a branch of
that tree which we are going to cut down. We not against wealth, we
are for it. But the true wealth can be created only in a varnasrama
society. In demoniac public system any wealth, as it was told above,
cannot exist, in essense. Besides, the wealth is not created by
individuals. It is created by a society in which NOBODY is in need.
Therefore everyone who aspires to wealth, should make the decision:
where and which kind of riches he will create -- false one in demoniac
system, or true one in the varnashrama system. Under the laws of God
everyone has the right to food and a shelter. Under the laws of God
every fair householder is obliged to feed all hungries and to give
them a shelter. If you are fair householder and businessman, and if in
your village, or city, or country remain thousands of hungries and
homelesses how you in the middle of this devastation and suffering can
accumulate riches? And if in your yatra or in general in ISKKON
devotees suicide out of the hoplessness, how you thus can create your
own dharma, artha, kama and moksa?
6. Many of the western people think, that they are so civilized, that
sit at world top, on peak, so to say. And consequently they are sure,
that can objectively estimate a reality of the modern world. But I
consider, that the situation is all on the contrary. They see,
basically, a varnished picture, and become conditioned by it. They do
not see a wrong side of this world, all its low-down, which the
countries of the third world and Russia are. And from here, from
Russia, even layman can see, what is all this so-called civilization,
with its money and external luster, what is it created for and at the
expense of what it exists. The westener does not imagine how to live
without money because never have seen or heard anything like this.
Money for him is a happiness equivalent. And in our country people
lived without money for centuries, a subsistence economy, and were not
at all, as you, maybe, think, unfortunate slaves. And even nowadays in
the Russian villages many live almost without money, do barter. And we
should study out, who are happier – those penniless villagers or
those, who sell themselves in the cities. And if you think, that all
of those villagers are simply brainless sudras, who’s happiness is to
simply fill a stomach, as the dogs and hogs, you are mistaken. You can
think so because you have never lived REALLY SIMPLE rural life. You do
not know this pleasure. And here we can argue: who are the bigger
slaves -- these impecunious countrymen or those who consider
themselves as the civilized townspeople trusting in progress and fairy
tales like «creative realization» of one’s potential. Personally I
lived both lives. And now I can compare and make conclusions. It is
well known, that those are the best slaves who does not guess it at
all.
7. Now about communism. How can you argue on communism if you did not
live in it even one day? Words "communism" and "community" come from a
word «common» - which means public, not private. Thus you speak about
"communities", rejecting communism. Is it not an absurdity? The
communism, as a matter of fact, is a direct opposite to egoism. Do you
think, that you know, what is communism because you were told about it
by mass-media, or in your high schools? I assure you, that about real,
not theoretical, communism you do know nothing. The communism is not a
system of distribution of the wealth, created by stupid sudras for
stupid sudras! It is, if you like, almost a varnasrama society by the
form, only without the main component -- the God. Actually the
communism is much closer to Vedic society, than that neo-slavery which
you call "the free market» and "democracy". Therefore when Prabhupada
has visited the USSR in 1972, he has told Soviet academics in the
conversation: «The followers of ISKKON profess spiritual communism. It
is almost the same, as you have got. You already have all the required
components, you should add only the God». Read, please, once again my
point 5.
If you cannot live for others yet, then you can become participants of
a varnasrama society only at the stage of its full swing, that is, not
in this life.
Here is my main thought: we are looking for those, who wish to live
for others and even more -- to perform the feats for the sake of
others and to risk for the sake of others. We are the true communists,
almost Vaisnavas :-)
Your humble servant
Vaikunthanath-das (IDS)
Dhanesvara Das
founder of the New Indraprastha Community in SW Russia. Vaikunthanath
Prabhu, please fill in your profile so that the other members will
know something of who is speaking.
On Oct 25, 7:51 am, "Vaikunthanath das (IDS)"
niscala dasi
Just some thoughts in response to your numbered points.
point 1: "Varnashrama had never existed in the form of public
organization."
my understanding is that prior to the caste system, there was VA- it
became degraded due to the age of kali, so I am not sure what you mean
by this statement, but I am curious to find out!
> "It only can be fully fledged, at least, on the scale of the state." In respect to the laws of Manu, I agree. However, in respect to a vaisnava dynamic based not on laws, but on love, service and cooperation, any size can be a working model. Actually, it is the only way to organize society so that it is peaceful. When one's karma or work matches one's guna or acquired nature, then one does the work perfectly. For example, it is mentioned that ksatriyas regarded their subjects with the same affectionate concern as family members. So their work (karma) in being protectors of those people, matched their natural inclinations, and hence they were VERY GOOD protectors of the people. Any person in distress could approach a ksatriya, and get relief. They were magnanimous, courageous and determined in protecting their subjects, which included animals. Similarly, the brahmanas are those who are naturally detached and unshakeably attached to the truth, so they are very good advisors to the ksatriyas- there is no chance of them being corrupted by desire for favours from the "powers that be"
2. "May ISKKON in its present condition become an organization in
whose
> frameworks varnasrama can be carried out? Unequivocally - no"
decision making in the hands of the top tier, you are probably right.
If you view it in a broader idealistic sense, as many on the forum are
apt to do, in other words, if you view ISKCON as being comprised of
everyone who makes it their life goal to achieve the vision of, and
follow the instructions of, Srila Prabhupada, then you are
unequivocally wrong. And such great souls as Dhanesvara and Shaligram
prabhus are out to prove it! :))
3. " 1. The slowest way is karma-kanda plus varnashrama (a
>
> 2. Faster way -- karma-yoga plus varnashrama (tens
> lives).
>
> 3. The fastest way -- bhakti-yoga plus varnashrama
> (one or several lives)"
action done with love for Krsna- devotional service. In both cases,
Krsna is the goal, so both are transcendental processes- it is a
matter of motivation. That is why "karma kanda plus VA" is abolsutely
not of interest in this forum, as its motivation is to enjoy the
fruits of action, not to satisfy the Lord. Such VA attempts are
described as a useless waste of time, in SB, as they do not culimnate
in attraction for the Lord's service.
Both karma yoga and bhakti yoga are YOGA- or a means to connect to the
Lord. Bhakti is the highest, but if one cannot serve with
unconditional love, then one serves as a matter of duty, at least,
using one's psycho-physical talents in the service of the Lord's
devotees. Then what appears to be a mundane activity- picking
cauliflowers- becomes transcendentalized- SP called this
"dovetailing" ...
4. "Too much time and forces in this conference are spent on
disputes
> on position of money in our life. If these disputes continue like
> this, they will not end forever."
and forms communities of them. Some souls want to do away with money
altogether, some want it as an interim measure before becoming
independent of it, others see the value of business as an ongoing part
of the venture. I have seen no one on this forum in the first
category, most are in the second category. I am a little bit inclined
to the third, as I see a need for money in providing for medical
emergencies, for example. But I agree that money depersonalizes the
world- in that sense it is evil. It puts worth on people equivalent to
how one can profit from them. Thus it is a means to exploitation. So I
personally think that businesses should not be discouraged, but the
profit should be given to the temple for the maintenance of devotees
in old age and invalidity, also for the wlefare of cows. And such
profit making by the vaisiyas must be overseen by a fully qualified
ksatriya, who is always on watch, making sure no worker is exploited
or disrespected or made unhappy in any way...If it is understood- by
all in the community- that the VA community is a non-profit
organization, and that all profits from business should be pooled for
emergencies, or building projects, or schools- things that benefit the
whole community- not for hoarding by the profit-maker, then one takes
the fangs out of the vicious serpent.
5."For this
> this System is unacceptable for Vaisnavas and in general for the
> people, who follow spiritual path."
the land- excess produce can be sold.
"Even under the plea of our great philosophy. I
> consider, that at the given stage, being strongly dependent on
> dominating system, we have, to some extent, the right to use modern
> money. But in any way NOT FOR SENSE GRATIFICATION, "
Rupa Goswami recommended 25% be put aside for emergencies, 25% for
maintenance, and 50% for spreading KC, - all these categories benefit
the body and soul of all involved- there is no greed, no hoarding. He
didn't say "what emergency? Krsna will protect you!" He was realistic.
Emergency means also an emergency for the cows- such as the barn
blowing over in a storm.
But for daily maintenance, we have to follow SP's instruction to not
be dependent on money, and grow all our necessities of life. That was
certainly his focus in relation to VA.
Point 6 is very good, and I agree wholeheartedly. In VA, the brahmana
leaders are the poorest in terms of wealth accumulation and leading a
comfortable life- their wealth is only in austerity. I see your point
of view is very clear cut in this matter. But we have to account for
differing points of view, which correspond to different realizations,
within the framework of SP's instructions on the matter. In point 5
you agree that wealth should not be used for sense gratification. I
have suggested some ways wealth can be used in the service of
vaisnavas- i.e. to care for them (and the cows) when they are sick or
aged. I agree wholeheartedly with Dhanesvara prabhu that for daily
maintenance, ideally we should grow everything we need, and not depend
on money. So our differences are very small, actually I think we agree
on all points, we just are focussing on different aspects of them,
according to our past experiences.
Thank you again for your thoughts.
On Oct 25, 2:51 pm, "Vaikunthanath das (IDS)"
>
> read more »
Vaikunthanath das (IDS)
know, why that picture doesn't upload?
Vaikunthanath das (IDS)
On 29 окт, 14:48, niscala dasi <niscala_d...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> Thankyou for contributing, prabhu!
>
> Just some thoughts in response to your numbered points.
>
> point 1: "Varnashrama had never existed in the form of public
> organization."
> my understanding is that prior to the caste system, there was VA- it
> became degraded due to the age of kali, so I am not sure what you mean
> by this statement, but I am curious to find out!
too small to guarantee the full fledged VA. So there is no practical
experience of operating VA as an NGO within the larger (and demoniac)
state.
> "It only can be fully fledged, at least, on the scale of the state."
> In respect to the laws of Manu, I agree. However, in respect to a vaisnava dynamic based not on laws, but on love, service and cooperation, any size can be a working model. Actually, it is the only way to organize society so that it is peaceful. When one's karma or work matches one's guna or acquired nature, then one does the work perfectly. For example, it is mentioned that ksatriyas regarded their subjects with the same affectionate concern as family members. So their work (karma) in being protectors of those people, matched their natural inclinations, and hence they were VERY GOOD protectors of the people. Any person in distress could approach a ksatriya, and get relief. They were magnanimous, courageous and determined in protecting their subjects, which included animals. Similarly, the brahmanas are those who are naturally detached and unshakeably attached to the truth, so they are very good advisors to the ksatriyas- there is no chance of them being corrupted by desire for favours from the "powers that be"
written, and I agree with you principally. I'm not against VA and
ksatriya's nobility. :-) VA however doesn't exist now in any place in
the world. Not because there are no noble ksatriyas in the world at
all, but because modern political system with it's demoniac laws
doesn't allow ksatriyas to reveal their nobility. If any ksatriya will
try to execute the laws of VA now, he will be destroyed very soon.
Even if we create an environment of the people who live on the VA
rules locally, even then ksatriya cannot fully protect his subjects,
because aggressive and demoniac environment is much more larger and
stronger this intended community of VA. Your thoughts are right. Va
can be realized to some extend inside the community of the devotees,
who want to live such a life.
> 2. "May ISKKON in its present condition become an organization in
> whose
>
> > frameworks varnasrama can be carried out? Unequivocally - no"
>
> If you view ISKCON as a legal entity and a bureaucracy, with all
> decision making in the hands of the top tier, you are probably right.
> If you view it in a broader idealistic sense, as many on the forum are
> apt to do, in other words, if you view ISKCON as being comprised of
> everyone who makes it their life goal to achieve the vision of, and
> follow the instructions of, Srila Prabhupada, then you are
> unequivocally wrong. And such great souls as Dhanesvara and Shaligram
> prabhus are out to prove it! :))
> 3. " 1. The slowest way is karma-kanda plus varnashrama (a
>
> > lot of lives).
>
> > 2. Faster way -- karma-yoga plus varnashrama (tens
> > lives).
>
> > 3. The fastest way -- bhakti-yoga plus varnashrama
> > (one or several lives)"
>
> Karma yoga, action done for Krsna, culminates in bhakti yoga, which is
> action done with love for Krsna- devotional service. In both cases,
> Krsna is the goal, so both are transcendental processes- it is a
> matter of motivation. That is why "karma kanda plus VA" is abolsutely
> not of interest in this forum, as its motivation is to enjoy the
> fruits of action, not to satisfy the Lord. Such VA attempts are
> described as a useless waste of time, in SB, as they do not culimnate
> in attraction for the Lord's service.
>
> Both karma yoga and bhakti yoga are YOGA- or a means to connect to the
> Lord. Bhakti is the highest, but if one cannot serve with
> unconditional love, then one serves as a matter of duty, at least,
> using one's psycho-physical talents in the service of the Lord's
> devotees. Then what appears to be a mundane activity- picking
> cauliflowers- becomes transcendentalized- SP called this
> "dovetailing" ...
yoga is that karma-yoga is practiced as a matter of duty, not as a
matter of love. In all other aspects it is the same yoga. But devotees
often practice karma-kanda under the guise of karma-yoga, using Krisna
instead of demi-gods.
business should do only those members of comunity who are mature
enough to do it as safe as possible to themselves and others.
> 5."For this
>
> > reason any business in the frameworks (that is, by rules and laws) of
> > this System is unacceptable for Vaisnavas and in general for the
> > people, who follow spiritual path."
>
> I was thinking more in terms of business that is wealth generated from
> the land- excess produce can be sold.
> "Even under the plea of our great philosophy. I
>
> > consider, that at the given stage, being strongly dependent on
> > dominating system, we have, to some extent, the right to use modern
> > money. But in any way NOT FOR SENSE GRATIFICATION, "
>
> And not for exploitation either, but rather, for the benefit of all.
> Rupa Goswami recommended 25% be put aside for emergencies, 25% for
> maintenance, and 50% for spreading KC, - all these categories benefit
> the body and soul of all involved- there is no greed, no hoarding. He
> didn't say "what emergency? Krsna will protect you!" He was realistic.
> Emergency means also an emergency for the cows- such as the barn
> blowing over in a storm.
> But for daily maintenance, we have to follow SP's instruction to not
> be dependent on money, and grow all our necessities of life. That was
> certainly his focus in relation to VA.
> Point 6 is very good, and I agree wholeheartedly. In VA, the brahmana
> leaders are the poorest in terms of wealth accumulation and leading a
> comfortable life- their wealth is only in austerity. I see your point
> of view is very clear cut in this matter. But we have to account for
> differing points of view, which correspond to different realizations,
> within the framework of SP's instructions on the matter. In point 5
> you agree that wealth should not be used for sense gratification. I
> have suggested some ways wealth can be used in the service of
> vaisnavas- i.e. to care for them (and the cows) when they are sick or
> aged. I agree wholeheartedly with Dhanesvara prabhu that for daily
> maintenance, ideally we should grow everything we need, and not depend
> on money. So our differences are very small, actually I think we agree
> on all points, we just are focussing on different aspects of them,
> according to our past experiences.
not my native language, but I want you to know, that I fully agree
with you and I'm hapy to meet such an ally in you. The slight
difference in focusing, while basically we are totally on one page,
makes our discussion even more valuable. :-) As they say, if two
collegues are always agree with each other, then one of them is
disposable. If they are always disagree with each other, then both are
disposable. :-)
> Thank you again for your thoughts.
responsible position towards cows and devotees. Why don't you
contemplate the possibility of joining our community in Russia? How do
you see it from downunder? :-)
YS VNd
niscala dasi
> not my native language, but I want you to know, that I fully agree
> with you and I'm hapy to meet such an ally in you
that matters. BTW, I really like your slogans in your profile,
especially the one that is about doing today what others believe will
be possible tomorrow- is that the correct interpretation? Some
devotees think that we have to wait for nuclear catastrophe before
people will take to KC or VA, but we don't have to wait for them.
You asked about the situation on the farms in Australia. It is rather
stagnant- complacency is a big problem here as it is very easy to get
on welfare, which provides enough money for basic needs. So devotees
interpret "simple living" in that way- not worrying about a job, but
such an attitude is breeding complacency, and also self-centredness as
one does not have to develop vaisnava qualities when one does not have
to cooperate in a community, and be dependent on each others mercy.
Basically, on a farm you pay rent to the TP and then are not required
even to do service- or maybe an arati or two a week. Something like
that. A bit of service is required, but so long as you pay rent, and
don't cause trouble to the authorities by suggesting alternative
possibilities, then your future is secured. Welfare is sufficent for
rent and school fees.
There has also been a huge exodus to the Narayan Maharaja group- and
they summarily conclude that they are above the need for VA, as they
have a "Mahabhagavat" guru. NM also preaches against the need for VA
for devotees.
Beyond that, I personally have caused a lot of trouble to the
authorities here, and are not welcome to live on either of the two
ISKCON farms that know about me- not sure about the one further south-
that farm is our only possibility here in Australia. We are very
inclined towards Europe, so your offer to visit your farm in Russia is
very attractive! My husband is Italian, so residency will not be a
problem (I think- is Russia in the EU?)
Thank you for considering me your ally! What part of SW Russia is your
community? Its good it is in the south- the north would be way too
cold!
On Oct 30, 1:35 am, "Vaikunthanath das (IDS)"
<vaikunthanath....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Thankyou for contributing, prabhu!
>
> > Just some thoughts in response to your numbered points.
>
>
> > > š š š š š š š š lot of lives).
>
> > > š š š š š š š š 2. šFaster šway š-- škarma-yoga plus varnashrama (tens
> > > š š š š š š š š lives).
>
> > > š š š š š š š š 3. šThe šfastest šway š-- bhakti-yoga plus varnashrama
> > > š š š š š š š š (one or several lives)"
> > Karma yoga, action done for Krsna, culminates in bhakti yoga, which is
> > action done with love for Krsna- devotional service. In both cases,
> > Krsna is the goal, so both are transcendental processes- it is a
> > matter of motivation. That is why "karma kanda plus VA" is abolsutely
> > not of interest in this forum, as its motivation is to enjoy the
> > in attraction for the Lord's service.
>
> > Both karma yoga and bhakti yoga are YOGA- or a means to connect to the
> > Lord. Bhakti is the highest, but if one cannot serve with
> > unconditional love, then one serves as a matter of duty, at least,
> > using one's psycho-physical talents in the service of the Lord's
> > devotees. Then what appears to be a mundane activity- picking
> > cauliflowers- becomes transcendentalized- SP called this
> > "dovetailing" ...
>
> Karma-yoga is real karma-yoga when it's only difference from bhakti-
> yoga is that karma-yoga is practiced as a matter of duty, not as a
> matter of love. In all other aspects it is the same yoga. But devotees
> often practice karma-kanda under the guise of karma-yoga, using Krisna
> instead of demi-gods.
>
>
>
>
>
> > disputes
>
> > > on šposition šof šmoney šin šour life. If these disputes continue like
> > > this, šthey šwill not end forever."
> > Alternatively, as Shaligram is doing, one connects like-minded souls,
> > and forms communities of them. Some souls want to do away with money
> > altogether, some want it as an interim measure before becoming
> > independent of it, others see the value of business as an ongoing part
> > of the venture. I have seen no one on this forum in the first
> > category, most are in the second category. I am a little bit inclined
> > to the third, as I see a need for money in providing for medical
> > emergencies, for example. But I agree that money depersonalizes the
> > world- in that sense it is evil. It puts worth on people equivalent to
> > how one can profit from them. Thus it is a means to exploitation. So I
> > personally think that businesses should not be discouraged, but the
> > profit should be given to the temple for the maintenance of devotees
> > in old age and invalidity, also for the wlefare of cows. And such
> > profit making by the vaisiyas must be overseen by a fully qualified
> > ksatriya, who is always on watch, making sure no worker is exploited
> > or disrespected or made unhappy in any way...If it is understood- by
> > all in the community- that the VA community is a non-profit
> > organization, and that all profits from business should be pooled for
> > emergencies, or building projects, or schools- things that benefit the
> > whole community- not for hoarding by the profit-maker, then one takes
> > the fangs out of the vicious serpent.
>
> enough to do it as safe as possible to themselves and others.
>
> > 5."For this
>
> > > this šSystem šis šunacceptable šfor šVaisnavas šand in general for the
> > > people, šwho follow spiritual path."
> > I was thinking more in terms of business that is wealth generated from
> > the land- excess produce can be sold.
>
> Agree.
>
> > "Even under the plea of our great philosophy. I
>
> > > dominating šsystem, šwe šhave, to some extent, the right to use modern
> > > money. šBut šin šany šway šNOT šFOR SENSE GRATIFICATION, "
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Vaikunthanath das (IDS)
in Australia. The situation is very much depressing. Practically, it
is the same in other places worldwide, if not worse. Though in Russia,
I consider, situation is much better. Firstly, because our background
culture is absolutely different, it is much closer to Vedic culture
and VA, and, secondly, because here were no yet farms which would
discredit themselves. There were some attempts which have ended with
failure, but I do not think, that they need to be counted in the
fiasco category because they have ended, hardly having had time to
begin. Therefore I consider, that for us all is still ahead, there are
possibilities. At least, we should try to collect devotees from all
Russia and even from all the world for one exemplary community to
demonstrate an example finally. What we wish to do, only few, who will
have enough reason, will understand now through words. And the others
will understand only through eyes, seeing.
Ys VN d