all body swim

[hunter cubitt-cooke]

hey yall,
I am making an event through our facebook page for the all body swim and I'm wondering what peoples thoughts are for wording describing the event.

i was thinking something like this:
As part of the vancouver trans forum we are hosting an all body swim. This event is open to anyone and we specifically encourage anyone who typically faces discrimination at pools i.e. trans people, fat people, people who are differently abled etc. to attend. People will be able to use their changing room of preference and can feel free to wear whatever they feel comfortable in. This event is free for forum participants and we will be asking for a donation to cover costs. No one turned away at the door.

thoughts?

[kat kent]

Sounds great.  Trying out a new toy on your drawing :D

[hunter cubitt-cooke]

i was also going to ad that the event is wheelchair accessible

[Gwenneth Athena Katsaris]

yes ... sounds great Hunter

[Amber]

Hunter great ! we so needed that!

I'm suggesting these edits:

Can we DROP the whole "i.e. trans people, fat people, people who are
differently abled etc. to attend" thing?
- if you list accessibility stats, people will know if they can come
to it - or not.

(As a fatty it really irks me when someone brings up the 'just bcoz
yer fat thing'- equates it with being differently-abled
- OR equates both those labels to automatically mean discrimination.
you wouldn't say 'skinny people' or 'amputees' etc.)

how about: *We specifically encourage anyone who typically *feels
discriminated against* at public pools to attend.*

or better yet:
This is one awesome pool party. Try not to miss it!


Question RE: "can feel free to wear whatever they feel comfortable"
What are the pool's rules as to what people can wear?

Can folks who want to be topless - go topless with out getting kicked
out by staff?
eg guys who haven't had top surgery and people who like being
topless.

What about swimming in a wedding gown, costume etc?

[Emily Morgan]

Amber has some good questions.

I discussed the issue of clothing with the program manager when making sure we got lifeguards who were okay with the concept of an all-body swim. The lifeguards on duty reserve the right to determine what people can and can't wear into the pool, but it's mainly common-sense safety stuff, like not wearing a long flowing skirt on the diving board, or layers of heavy clothes that would make you sink like a rock. You can wear regular clothes into the pool, but they have to be clean and can't be what you walked into the building wearing.

Going top-free regardless of gender, as I understand it, is legal in BC no matter where you are, so long as you're not bleeding and/or lactating into the pool. (I don't know for sure but I'm assuming there's a general "no bodily fluids in the pool" rule for sanitary reasons.) I'll need to run that by the program manager to be sure, but this is a private function and strictly from a legal standpoint top-free ought to be okay.

- Emily



> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 20:55:56 -0700
> Subject: Re: all body swim
> From: aik...@yahoo.com
> To: vancouver-...@googlegroups.com

>
> I'm suggesting these edits:
>

> Question RE: "can feel free to wear whatever they feel comfortable"
> What are the pool's rules as to what people can wear?
>
> Can folks who want to be topless - go topless with out getting kicked
> out by staff?
> eg guys who haven't had top surgery and people who like being
> topless.
>
> What about swimming in a wedding gown, costume etc?

---

Enter for a chance to get your town photo on Bing.ca! Submit a Photo Now!

[kat kent]

I has a Cintiq!!!!!!!!  PS:  I'm also photoshopping buttons mwahahahahaha.

[Danielle Macdonell]

Brillig!

Dani
--- On Tue, 7/13/10, kat kent <kat...@hotmail.com> wrote:

[Kate Lamothe]

@ Hunter---> thanks for making the event!

 

@ Amber---> I hear your points about listing accessibility stats and letting people decide whether that includes them or not but I still do see a lot of importance in making explicitly named alliances across oppressions.  I mean it's one of the reasons we're having the "Meat on our Bones" workshop is it not?

 

However, in this instance, if by listing specific identity categories (ie: fat, living with a disability, etc) we are offending people than we can for sure leave categories out of the description altogether!  That's why I really like your suggestion of:

 

*We specifically encourage anyone who typically *feels discriminated against* at public pools to attend.*

 

@ Emily ---> thanks for the clothing update!

 

@ Kat---> thanks for making the poster!

[hunter cubitt-cooke]

hey all,
i appreciate everyones imput.
amber, i totally hear what youre saying. i agree with kate about naming alliances too though. i listed fat people in the list of trans and "differently abled" which is different to me then saying disabled. to me im listing characteristics or identities that are positive but who typically face harrasment in pools. i wouldnt say skinny because i feel skinny people are generally encouraged and have their identities re-inforced all the time especially at pools. I wanted to specifically include fat people in the invitation because i dont think alot of people necesarily know what all body swim means, that it extends not only to trans people. I also wanted to make both the links and reference the ways these oppressions compound. i added the differently abled for the same reasons. having an event be wheelchair accessible is one thing but having an event that directly invites you and is trying to address the oppression faced at pools while linking our struggles might make people more inclined to come. if im not mistaken templeton pool is always wheelchair accessible. that doesnt mean that its a socially comfortable place or that it is free of able-ism. I also wanted to make skinny people and everyone really more aware of the different types of people that dont feel comfortable at pools.  its a priveledge alot of people take for granted and dont think much about so i was trying to stimulate thought.

how about this?
As part of the vancouver trans forum we are hosting an all body swim. This event is open to anyone and we specifically encourage anyone who typically feels discrimination at pools to attend. People will be able to use their changing room of preference and can feel free to wear whatever they feel comfortable in as long as it's clean and safe to swim in. This event welcomes people of all genders and sexual orientations, of all abilities, and is fat-positive.  This event is free for forum participants and we will be asking for a donation to cover costs. No one turned away at the door. wheelchair accessible.

h

[hunter cubitt-cooke]

by the way kat, love what you did with the poster

[Gwenneth Athena Katsaris]

Kat ... have i ever told you that you do diabolical really well ?

 

 G

[Vancouver Trans Forum]

Hunter!

 That description is incredible!  I'm *so* excited by it! I especially like this line:

This event welcomes people of all genders and sexual orientations, of all abilities, and is fat-positive.

Thank you!

xoxo
Kate

[Gwenneth Athena Katsaris]

Yes, I second that.  I think it was great to start with, but is even better now. :)

[Amber]

emily - i am so glad you asked the staff about attire etc. it's great
that there's the option of tops - or not.

kat: awesome poster! i'm especially appreciative of how much hard
work everyone puts into making this forum successful.

kate: i hear you! i also think it's different when fat folks host
events/workshops for other fat folks - or to educate others on their
issues.

anyhow -everyone: i am messing up the thread. i really appreciate all
that's been said. plus that you took the time to address the issue.
thank you.

question: if 'size-positive' was swapped for the word fat - would
that be as clear - and ok with y'all?

[Amber]

hunter - i am really feeling what you've said. i know you're intention
is to be totally inclusive - and smash bullshit paradigms.
yet i do have to respectfully disagree with you on the 'who feels
comfy, when and where' thing.

some skinny people are not ok with their bodies - and not all chubby
folks aren't.

i feel that thinking otherwise is problematic. i believe when one
starts assuming that another person does or does not feel privilege
and/or discrimination based on stereotypes - that kind of perception
just adds to processes which oppress us all.

i think being truly progressive involves a lot of shedding of
preconceptions and diligent self monitoring - plus speaking out.

[Amber]

hunter - is it cool to use shorter sentences?

Eg. This event is open to everyone.
We specifically encourage anyone who typically feels discrimination at
pools to attend.

People will be able to use their changing room of preference.
Wear whatever you feel comfortable in, as long as it's clean and safe
to swim in.

This event welcomes people of all genders and sexual orientations, of
all abilities,

and is size-positive.

This event is free for forum participants. We will be asking for
donations to cover costs.

No one turned away at the door.

This event is wheelchair accessible. Professional lifeguards will be
on duty.

more questions - if this event is wheelchair accessible...
how is transportation going to work?
- will they need to arrange their own cabs/rides?

who will be there to assist these folks?
- will they need to bring their own recreational assistants?

[Kate Lamothe]

I'm all for shorter sentences!  Easier to read for sure!

 

My only other suggestion is instead of size-positive, maybe we should write "all sizes" since we're already saying "all genders, all sexual orientations, all abilities"

 

Also, I really do appreciate this discussion Amber, it's got me thinking *really* hard!  Thank you.

 

 

As for your questions:

 

1) I'm feeling that folks should arrange their own transportation but if they need financial assistance, that's where we should step in.

 

2) I'm thinking "yes" folks should bring their own RA's, although maybe it would be good to have a few (of different genders) on hand, in case need be.  What type of training/experience does one need to do this work?

 

Thanks again Amber...and everyone else :)

Kate

[hunter cubitt-cooke]

hey everyone so i think what we ended up with is great and im going to throw it on to facebook now...
language can be tricky and we are trying to make a really inclusive event here so its worth trying to figure out.

amber: just to clarify: i had originally put typically FACES discrimination, not who feels discrimination because I do agree with you. I know skinny people who feel stared at at pools and with body image issues. i dont think its something unique to fat people, skinny people, trans people, etc but yeah, I respect where everyone is coming from and their imput.
alright, good work peeps!
h