Updated Budget as of July 13th, 2010
Kate Lamothe
xoxo
Kate
P.S. The only other thing I was thinking about that we've kinda forgot about (but shouldn't!) is childcare. We should maybe pay folks to do that. What do folks think? Dani, is your co-op room sill available?
Total Expenses Left to Pay (not including March):
Rhodes Venue (1 night, 2 full days) - $400
ASL - 400 (20 hours X $20/hour) (does this sound about right?)
Total Expected Revenue:
Donors (confirmed):
Prism - $200
Hospital Union - $250
UBC Womyn's Centre - $500
Kate's Fundraiser - $200
Film Fest (July 19th-July 22nd) - $250
Total = $1 400
Donors (unconfirmed):
SFPIRG - $1200
Estimated $$$ @ Forum Entrance:
$10 avg per person X 200 people = $2000
Estimated $$$ @ Opening Night:
$5 avg per person X 250 people = $1250
Total Expected Revenue = $5 850
TOTAL
= REVENUE ($5 850) --- EXPENSES ($2, 455)
= $3 395 TOTAL EXPECTED
kat kent
Here are the facts from what we presented them, and this is important because the budget they gave us is based on the information which we presented. In red are suggestions from the Events Team.
http://www.vancouvertransforum.com/images/TransMarch.JPG
-They suggested that we not go along Hornby because we'd be traveling against the traffic.
-They would rather us travel along Howe
-We need to take up only one lane of traffic because of the buses along Howe
-We need to take up only one lane of Davie, because to close Davie off completely means that we'd be impacting business from Denman Street up to Howe.
-Davie Street may be being repaved at that time, and the street might be groovy in some spots
2. Policing costs will run us a minimum of $1500-$1700 based on our current march route.
-All police are hired for a minimum of 3 hours, no matter how long the march is
-We informed the police person of our concerns of people being mis-gendered at this march, and that this is a super sensitive issue. She said that we will have time to educate them about the nature of this event at Rhodes College.
-The police are going to have very little contact with the march as they will be blocking traffic
3. All people with slower mobility shall be put in front of the march to make sure that we keep together as a group.
-They suggested that we get a van tailing the procession just in case someone gets tired and needs a lift to the venue. There is precedent for this at other marches.
4. Kat's estimate of the march: 25 minutes. (this included time for me to get a slurpee at 7-11. A wide estimate would be 35 minutes)
5. 5-10 volunteers to marshal, the person at the end and the front will have a way to contact each other via cell phones. The City of Vancouver is donating to us up to 12 vests which we are liable for if we lose them.
6. Insurance: we need to get minimum $2 million, we are going to ask All Sport Insurance.
7. The permit for the march is $100, but the City of Vancouver will donate to us $1000 if we can send them a copy of TAS's not for profit status.
8. The parks board needs to be contacted.
9. Kat went down to Sunset Beach, and the whole area of park has been fenced off! I don't know anything about this! Whoever talks to the parks board needs to ask about where we could set up. (Kat's working nights, she can't call the parks board)
+1500-1700 for police
+100 for the permit to close traffic
+400 for liability insurance
-1000 because we're a not for profit
==========================
$1000-$1200 for a 35 minute march
Emily Morgan
I'm on the phone with the city right now: Sunset Beach is closed until July 30th. We're researching alternative end points; they suggested Alexandria Park or Ceperly Park down the far end of Davie Street, which is too far. The only viable alternative seems to be Nelson Park and renting portapotties. I need to phone the parks board next and figure out what's available.
Kat, Kate and I also talked about marching on the sidewalk instead of the street to keep policing costs down. This probably needs to be discussed further.
- Emily
8. The parks board needs to be contacted.
9. Kat went down to Sunset Beach, and the whole area of park has been fenced off! I don't know anything about this! Whoever talks to the parks board needs to ask about where we could set up. (Kat's working nights, she can't call the parks board)
Emily Morgan
I finished talking with the Parks folks, I have some forms to fill out and send to them and they'll fast-track this. We're tenatively booked for Nelson Park and will need a portapotty or two. The only other alternative is Ceperly Park which would triple the march length (0.7 km to Nelson Park or 1.1 km to Sunset Beach versus 2.6 km to Ceperly).
For future reference next year: normally this is all supposed to be done, complete and approved three months prior to the event (ie in late April).
- Emily
From: yesana...@hotmail.com
To: vancouver-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Updated Budget as of July 13th, 2010
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 14:09:06 -0700
Hi all,
I'm on the phone with the city right now: Sunset Beach is closed until July 30th. We're researching alternative end points; they suggested Alexandria Park or Ceperly Park down the far end of Davie Street, which is too far. The only viable alternative seems to be Nelson Park and renting portapotties. I need to phone the parks board next and figure out what's available.
Kat, Kate and I also talked about marching on the sidewalk instead of the street to keep policing costs down. This probably needs to be discussed further.
- Emily
Turn down-time into play-time with Messenger games Play Now!
Emily Morgan
The parks permit, incidentally, is $25.
Kat, what's the insurance situation? And have we decided if we're doing sidewalk or street?
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 14:52:52 -0700
Your Photo on Bing.ca: You Could WIN on Canada Day! Submit a Photo Now!
Emily Morgan
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 14:59:43 -0700
Danielle Macdonell
Wow! Thanx for dealing with all of this. I hope we can all stop juggling things soon and just do what needs to be done. Nelson Park is a poetically perfick spot, for that is where the first Gay Pride was.
I'd really like to have the street, but this is our first march, we'll do more next year. When we started marching at the very first Pride here the cops were right there threatening us all with immediate arrest if we stepped onto the road.
Porta Potties, yukkers. How much will a disabled size one cost for two hours? Three hours?
I can do some of that calling (Porta Potties) tomorrow and post what I find out.
If anything we find out or do that has a next year lesson attached to it should noted clearly like Emily has here, so someone can search through and start a next year thread with all of the salient bits gathered up.
Danielle
Hi all,
I finished talking with the Parks folks, I have some forms to fill out and send to them and they'll fast-track this. We're tenatively booked for Nelson Park and will need a portapotty or two. The only other alternative is Ceperly Park which would triple the march length (0.7 km to Nelson Park or 1.1 km to Sunset Beach versus 2.6 km to Ceperly).
For future reference next year: normally this is all supposed to be done, complete and approved three months prior to the event (ie in late April).
- Emily
From: yesana...@hotmail.com
To: vancouver-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Updated Budget as of July 13th, 2010
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 14:09:06 -0700
#yiv188233058 .ExternalClass .ecxhmmessage P
{padding:0px;}
#yiv188233058 .ExternalClass body.ecxhmmessage
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Hi all,
I'm on the phone with the city right now: Sunset Beach is closed until July 30th. We're researching alternative end points; they suggested Alexandria Park or Ceperly Park down the far end of Davie Street, which is too far. The only viable alternative seems to be Nelson Park and renting portapotties. I need to phone the parks board next and figure out what's available.
Kat, Kate and I also talked about marching on the sidewalk instead of the street to keep policing costs down. This probably needs to be discussed further.
- Emily
Danielle Macdonell
if it helps I can be available for whatever tomorrow until 4:00.
Dani
Shannon Blatt
Shannon
hunter cubitt-cooke
I have serious reservations about marching on the sidewalk as well as paying to be policed.
h
hunter cubitt-cooke
how do people feel about an emergency meeting regarding the march? This seems like a lot of stress and responsibility that might be better shared. It also seems like we have some pretty big decisions to make that I'm not sure about making online....
I have serious reservations about marching on the sidewalk as well as paying to be policed.
h
Vancouver Trans Forum
To be clear:
This is something I feel strongly enough to block consensus on. I have had reservations all along about getting a permit but I have not felt uncomfortable enough to block anything. But, now I'm at a point were I do feel 100% uncomfortable, and really feel needs talking about more.
(At times hard) Solidarity,
Kate
Emily Morgan
As far as police presence, I know it's controversial, but vis-a-vis the march, it's not optional. They're there for traffic control and to police the public, not us. We are required to get the city, the parks people, the insurer and the police all on the same page or the march will not happen. Keeping to the sidewalk is simply an attempt to minimize the policing costs.
Sorry about inadvertently starting a new thread, I'm doing all of this entirely by email and it's getting a bit chaotic.
- Emily
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 15:54:16 -0700
Subject: Re: New endpoint for Trans March
From: hunter....@gmail.com
To: vancouver-...@googlegroups.com
Enter for a chance to get your town photo on Bing.ca! Submit a Photo Now!
Vancouver Trans Forum
I do however feel differently in regards to the March. IMO, even if it is city-sanctioned or not, there will be some of us marching. It just feels really gross to me to be promoting this as "in a similar spirit to the Compton Cafeteria Riot & the Stonewall Rebellion" and then inviting police to lead and close up the march. Queer/trans communities emerged out of opposition to the police.
Another problem is that cops lie all the time....so yes, in the meeting the VPD rep said that they would be there solely to block traffic, but once things start getting fiesty and rowdy they will start harrassing us.
I really feel ethically opposed to this: Cops do not make me safer.
Guarenteed by the charter of rights and freedoms in Canada is a right to free assembly
I feel as though this is a case where we should exercise that right and march, our way, regardless of what the city says.
What are other folks' thoughts?
---
Kate
hunter cubitt-cooke
At this point though these are political decisions.
Honestly, opposite of pride, I would be ashamed to walk on the sidewalk. (whats next an underground tunnel?) To pay police. especially to walk on the sidewalk.
The concept that you cant take to the streets unless you can afford it is extremely offensive to me.
Stonewall didnt ask for a permit. the power in that revolutionary moment was that people took the power into their own hands, they took to the streets. they did not ask nicely.
Obviously people are coming from different places, looking for different things in the march. I dont want to see people arrested or unsafe. but we have a right to protest, to assemble.
That being said I really dont feel we have the right to host a march and tell people they have to march on the sidewalk. I dont even like the idea of going with traffic with the purpose of protecting the interest of business. To me this is all opposite to the reasons behind the march.
I have experience doing police liason for unpermited marches/demonstrations if thats necesary.
I for one will be marching in the streets and will encourage everyone to do so.
all the power to the people.
h
kat kent
Danielle Macdonell
Danielle
--- On Wed, 7/14/10, hunter cubitt-cooke <hunter....@gmail.com> wrote:
From: hunter cubitt-cooke <hunter....@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: New endpoint for Trans March
To: vancouver-...@googlegroups.com
Received: Wednesday, July 14, 2010, 5:03 PM
My feelings are that the police will show up either way. wether we pay them to or not, that's their job. So I am not concerned about traffic safety. Besides we have our own marshalls for that kind of thing. It's not an option to have them there or not ( i wish) but it is an option to hire them. it is a decision that I think will be intense to make but I feel very strongly about it. I understand not paying the police means not having a permit. I feel like kate, all along I have been opposed to the permit and buying insurance but I dont want to fight about everything so I chose to let it be, understanding it is important to some people.
At this point though these are political decisions.
Honestly, opposite of pride, I would be ashamed to walk on the sidewalk. (whats next an underground tunnel?) To pay police. especially to walk on the sidewalk.
The concept that you cant take to the streets unless you can afford it is extremely offensive to me.
Stonewall didnt ask for a permit. the power in that revolutionary moment was that people took the power into their own hands, they took to the streets. they did not ask nicely.
Obviously people are coming from different places, looking for different things in the march. I dont want to see people arrested or unsafe. but we have a right to protest, to assemble.
That being said I really dont feel we have the right to host a march and tell people they have to march on the sidewalk. I dont even like the idea of going with traffic with the purpose of protecting the interest of business. To me this is all opposite to the reasons behind the march.
I have experience doing police liason for unpermited marches/demonstrations if thats necesary.
I for one will be marching in the streets and will encourage everyone to do so.
all the power to the people.
h
On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 4:26 PM, Emily Morgan <yesana...@hotmail.com> wrote:
My car is in need of repairs that are being done Friday afternoon (extra stress, yay), so I'm stuck in Surrey Panorama Heights till then, and Friday evening is already booked for me. The forms that need filling out are here - http://vancouver.ca/parks/events/index.htm . I'll be walking up to the local Office Depot this evening or tomorrow to print off my own copies if needed, but again, I'm stuck within walking distance of my home for the next two days. I thought I could do this all online, but the one page needs a physical signature from the insurer and from my phone records they seem to be based somewhere out in Langley and may or may not have an actual office.
As far as police presence, I know it's controversial, but vis-a-vis the march, it's not optional. They're there for traffic control and to police the public, not us. We are required to get the city, the parks people, the insurer and the police all on the same page or the march will not happen. Keeping to the sidewalk is simply an attempt to minimize the policing costs.
Sorry about inadvertently starting a new thread, I'm doing all of this entirely by email and it's getting a bit chaotic.
- Emily
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 15:54:16 -0700
Subject: Re: New endpoint for Trans March
From: hunter....@gmail.com
To: vancouver-...@googlegroups.com
how do people feel about an emergency meeting regarding the march? This seems like a lot of stress and responsibility that might be better shared. It also seems like we have some pretty big decisions to make that I'm not sure about making online....
I have serious reservations about marching on the sidewalk as well as paying to be policed.
h
On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Shannon Blatt <shanno...@gmail.com> wrote:
I can help too, if there's something I can do. Just say the word.
Shannon
On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Danielle Macdonell
<danib...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Emily,
> if it helps I can be available for whatever tomorrow until 4:00.
>
> Dani
>
>
>
marie.little
Danielle
- Emily
From: hunter....@gmail.com
To: vancouver-...@googlegroups.com
Shannon
<danib...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Emily,
>
> Dani
>
>
>
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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23:36:00
Amber
if this message posts a bunch of times- i'm sorry folks. It only happens when i respond using my cell, i can't control it. It's a glitch in the server.
kat kent
Kate Lamothe
I will reserve all my other comments until I hear your response.
kat kent
Kate Lamothe
I must say, while I still don't completely agree ideologically & ethically with paying authority for my already granted right to march/protest/walk on the sidewalk, I'm not willing to block consensus on this. I was going to if we would have had to pay for cops. I'm still personally undecided about whether I will attend or not. But, for larger political purposes, I support it nonetheless.
Thanks for clarifying Kat!
Solidarity,
Kate
kat kent
marie.little
-----Original Message-----
From: vancouver-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:vancouver-...@googlegroups.com]On Behalf Of Kate Lamothe
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 3:35 PM
To: vancouver-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: New endpoint for Trans March
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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hunter cubitt-cooke
To me walking on the sidewalk IS changing what our march is. It's completely changing it. For me, keeping in mind the purpose behind the march means taking to the streets.
The only thing stopping us from parading in the streets is that we dont have the money to pay the cops?!
Honestly if we had all stood together and taken to the streets, I beleive we could have. and it would be a 1000 times more powerfull then what it appears is now happening. This was supposed to be the powerfull ending to our weekend.
I'm not interested in walking up the sidewalk and calling it a march. The way I see it walking up the sidewalk is taking away engery from the forum. It's definetly zapping alot of my energy.
I'm understanding we're all at different places and I'm not sure how to continue. No I do not want legal responsibility falling on emily.( though I do seriously doubt emily could be held legally responsible for the behavior of the public at a public event in that way, or that they would target her)
So I guess where I'm at is that I dont think I will be attending the event and am seriously considering withdrawing from the group after the forum.
I am not trying to be threatening so people change their minds or something this has just been a breaking point for me. I am understanding that people have very different political goals. I also understand that we are so close to the forum so I will not block consensus on this.
respect,
hunter
Amber
| hunter - all i can say is drat. you've been a such a crucial force in the planning process and making stuff happen - losing you now -and maybe in the future- well it blows. question: is there anyone else who CAN have the march in their name? so emily doesn't have to? is there anyway to divide up? take TWO separate routes to the park? those that want to march in the streets without paying the police can - and those that want to use sidewalks and go another route can too. |
Emily Morgan
- Emily
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 15:53:01 -0700
Subject: Re: New endpoint for Trans March
jellyroll
vancouver.
There have been TWO stand-alone trans pride marches, neither of which
had
the assistance of the police, both of which were amazing. While i dont
want
to be part of yet another discussion regarding inviting the cops or
not (yall
know my feelings about that lol), i *do* want folks to understand this
certainly has been done before. We kicked shit UP to put those events
on, we took risks where we could, we made shit happen. Lets not forget
whats come before ok?
solidarity,
romham
jellyroll
march in the street, it always is, and one which serves only to
literally and figuratively divide us. Any guesses as to where the cops
will place their unwanted attention? Does anyone here want to be in
that small group of targeted trans folks, while the rest wander down
the street in comparative safety? i strongly suggest NOT breaking up
the march-slash-wander.
This group has been definitely having a hard time coming to final
decisions about how it wishes to relate to cops. There are critical
questions there that i hope will get more clarity at the conference
itself.
jellyroll
and to police the public, not us. We are required to get the city, the
parks people, the insurer and the police all on the same page or the
march will not happen. "
Anyone can march anywhere here. The question is not about whether or
not it will happen, but rather the manner in which it will happen.
Having a permit simply does not guarantee that it will be a stress-
free or police brutality-free endeavour. It simply means a group has
paid to have police "escorts".
They are most certainly there to control us as well as onlookers and
traffic, as they have shown time and time again across the years since
long before the Right To Protest demos back in the early 90's. If any
of "us" get "out of hand" by walking on the street, the cops will not
say to themselves "well, they paid their fee, lets just give them some
leaway". No, they will instruct people to get back, and if those
people refuse, they will likely be assaulted and detained.
Contrary to popular belief, paying a fee will not ensure your safety
(it has certainly never guaranteed mine) at a march of one of the most
fucked with groups of people around. It just wont.
im down with whatever decision you all decide on, and i can make a
decision about the extent to which i will support it with my body; id
just ask that you please do it with clarity about the very real
effects/implications and facts of what youre doing.
When do folks think youll have made a decision on this?
Emily Morgan
We still need to figure out the portapotty thing, but again that's something for the meeting.
From: yesana...@hotmail.com
To: vancouver-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: New endpoint for Trans March
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 13:30:34 -0700
kat kent
hunter cubitt-cooke
apologies for my misunderstanding. Based on the emails I thought decisions were being made that apparently arent.
I think compromise is a great idea.
respect
hunter
Emily Morgan
City of Vancouver has been informed of our change in march route and endpoint; on the sidewalk means that the police will no longer need to be involved; the city will be sending me a revised invoice shortly. We do however need vested marshalls at each road crossing, which the volunteer orientation meeting should probably cover. A portapotty in Nelson Park is going to cost $168, needs to be booked by Friday at the latest and needs a credit card.
- Emily
Your Photo on Bing.ca: You Could WIN on Canada Day! Submit a Photo Now!
Shannon Blatt
I'll just need the details.
Shannon
hunter cubitt-cooke
h
jellyroll
more than that?
On Jul 19, 4:06 pm, Emily Morgan <yesanasta...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> City of Vancouver has been informed of our change in march route and endpoint; on the sidewalk means that the police will no longer need to be involved; the city will be sending me a revised invoice shortly. We do however need vested marshalls at each road crossing, which the volunteer orientation meeting should probably cover. A portapotty in Nelson Park is going to cost $168, needs to be booked by Friday at the latest and needs a credit card.
>
> - Emily
>
> Turn down-time into play-time with Messenger gameshttp://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9734385
Shannon Blatt
a bit sketch so far and hasn't sent me the service agreement yet. I
don't know if this is wc accessible or not, but I will get in touch
and change the order to ensure that it's a wc accessible unit if it
isn't already. Thanks for flagging this!
s.
Shannon Blatt
back, so I'm now confirming that we are signed up for a wheelchair
accessible portapotty from SuperSave for the picnic at Nelson Park on
Sunday. They will drop it off somewhere between 5 and 6pm Sunday
(they can't guarantee a precise time of dropoff, but with 5pm
specified they assured me we'd have it in place for our actual start
time of the picnic.) They cannot pick it up until 7am Monday, so I
have paid a bit extra for a lock on the toilet for the overnight
period as I don't want to be responsible for any damage that might be
done overnight.
With a hand sanitizer pump included (seemed prudent) and some
surcharges and HST, the all-in cost will be appx. $225. If the
Forum doesn't have funds to cover it at the end of the day, I will
cover that cost myself as a donation to the event.
Shannon
Emily Morgan
I woke up this morning to a very terse voicemail from the city, - they're calling me on the carpet for how the march went, exactly as I expected they would. I'm getting a feeling we may get stuck with a policing bill ex post facto. They also want to talk with Kate as well. She's out of town, I'm supposed to be out of town as of two hours ago but I'm sitting here stressing out again. I don't want to be the sacrificial lamb in this, I want it to be over and done and I'm sorry I ever got involved. Suggestions?
- Emily
Look 'em in the eye: FREE Messenger video chat Chat Now!
Shannon Blatt
role, email me the number of the contact person who left you the
message. I will call them back and politely demand that they not call
you again and indicate that I will be their contact unless/until
someone else takes on that role and that any communication, by phone
or in writing, should come to me. I will liaise with organizers
towards formation of a response. so basically, I'm offering to take
this off your plate until VTF organizers can discuss the issue.
Purge the stress from your mind and go on out of town and have fun
Emily! Just forget about it and let others take this.
Nobody is going to be a sacrificial lamb here. If there is one, it
will be the MAYOR.
Shannon
Amber
this too shall pass. you are not alone in this.
You have kate, shannon, corey and myself - probably more folks too- to support you and assist in this matter.
Shannon is very capable.
One thing to remember there were government reps involved and who participated in the march. They are on film doing so.
And you did not even march. Which we can prove.
please have yourself a great vacation.
Solidarity,
Amber
Shannon Blatt
sure that this is off Emily's plate *immediately* so that she can
de-stress and breathe and enjoy her trip out of town and know that we
have her back. And her front. and her sides. So, my offer is just
aimed at that, not at assuming any spokesperson role or the like. My
intention was just to back them off her and onto someone else until
the tired organizers can see her message etc. That said, I am totally
willing to help out in any and every way possible with this nonsense.
Shannon
marie.little
Tak4e Shannon's advice!
Remember, the only reason YOUR name and phone number are on all those forms,
etc. instead of mine, is because of my temporary disability. I am still the
chair of TAS and it should be TAS - not you - that takes resposibility. And
that means me as 'spokesperson' (that's in our constitution).
Shannon, give me a call when you get time. Not between 5:00 and 7:00,
though, I'll be at the Pride Parade meeting.
In solidarity,
Marie
-----Original Message-----
From: vancouver-...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:vancouver-...@googlegroups.com]On Behalf Of Shannon
Blatt
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 11:45 AM
To: vancouver-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: New endpoint for Trans March
Shannon
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23:36:00
Danielle Macdonell
don't worry, we old political hacks will clean this mess.
Shannon,
if you need any leg work done let me know, Ellen Wordsworth (the dyke deputy mayor) would be a worthwhile contact in this. You seem to have a pretty good relationship with Bill, I'll leave him to you (unless you want my help).
Kate,
I'm leaving for Seattle on the 2nd, and back on Aug 15th, available by e-mail or phone. Please schedule the march debrief so I may attend it.
Marie,
help Shannon find the right people and advise on local tactics.
Everybody else,
please help when asked, and be conscious of your actions.
Love
Danielle
--- On Mon, 7/26/10, Shannon Blatt <shanno...@gmail.com> wrote:
> From: Shannon Blatt <shanno...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: New endpoint for Trans March
Shannon Blatt
You've offered some very helpful, concrete advice here. But the more
I think on this, I believe that rather than being in damage-control
mode and contrite and offering an apology (I know you didn't suggest
that), we should be demanding an apology from the city! Sometimes the
best defense is a strong offense.
How is the City serving trans folks? Are shelters all safe and
accessible? are all City facilities safe and accessible? Why was a
business license etc. given to a transphobic/segregationist pharmacy
and why was it allowed to open for business on a city street? Why are
city police a huge source of concern and trauma to community members?
etc. etc. etc.
If the answers are not satisfactory, then the City has a problem on
its hands, don't it? We could go on the political offensive here, no?
Make that phonecall a big, big deal. make it an issue. make it a
news story. or "threaten" to, anyway. A whooole lot of tourists and
media are going to be present in this town over the next week. We
could be very, very visible if we chose to be.
If this is a mess it's a damned beautiful mess and perhaps a great
opportunity to use the march as a springboard for change.
Just my opinion. I am in a quiet holding pattern and taking no
action, but I wanted to offer those thoughts.
Solidarity,
Shannon (who is still totally amped on adrenaline from the weekend and
the march)
PS there is a fabulous picture of you and Bill Siksay on his FB page
Dani! you look super happy and stoked. :)
Amber
You stepping in is a great and admirable thing.
Personally i am thankful for having you on the team. You did so much for the forum. I hope the city drops this thing with emily and kate- like yesterday.
Shannon Blatt
injury to one is an injury to all.
Being involved brings me joy and I am grateful for the opportunity to
have been able to be involved a bit and to contribute.
As I mentioned to a few people, by the time I moved from Ontario to
Van in early 2009, I was completely burned, bitter and angry about my
involvement in trans and queer community activism. I had to take
almost 2 years off from serious involvement. The VTF and the Trans
Pride March were a wonderful, healing, positive way to get back
involved a bit. You are all an absolutely staggering inspiration to
me and I'm proud and privileged to have been a part of this
amazingness!
Note: In my last message I unthinkingly used the term
"segregationist" and now that I have thought about that, I am
concerned that it may be problematic. I want to acknowledge that I
did that and am open to being educated.
S.
Danielle Macdonell
let's see what the city is actually saying before we start planning strategies. Personally I'd much rather take on the province than the city, but there may be a gateway in that direction out of this. Let us know what is actually being said, and we can decide from there.
Dani
Vancouver Sharp
Solidarity,
Blayde
Coordinating Member - BC S.H.A.R.P
Coordinating Member - Vancouver ARA
marie.little
main thing the city is going to do, so far, is issue invoices to TAS for
traffic control, etc. So thee march is likely going to cost at least as much
as it as it would have if wwe had gotten a permit for the street.
I think I did manage to convince her that Emily was only acting as my agent
because of my health and that any other consequences should fall on me not
her.
In sokidarity,
Marie
Ps. She wondered when we can return the marshals' vests. Anyone know where
they are?
Dani
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Danielle Macdonell
I'm not sure if we'll have much of a leg to stand on if the city is only going to be billing us what we were going to pay in the first place.
Let's pick our battles a bit, this one doesn't seem worth it to me, I want to take on the Provincial Ministry of Health for starters and not pay too much attention to VCH or any of the others (but that would be me putting my strategy on the table.).
Re: the vests, Roxana was head marshal, and Kat may also know something.
Dani
--- On Mon, 7/26/10, marie.little <marie....@shaw.ca> wrote:
hunter cubitt-cooke
thanks for stepping up. However we decide to move on this I want to offer my support. Prance agreed to do a fundraiser for us after the forum so maybe we can talk to them about the money being used for this. or more fundraising? these are just my ideas but advice would be greatly appreciated from anyone. I think we have options and should find strength in dealing with this together.
dani, im going to get back to cleaning the mess left behind from the food, the messes that were left behind after the forum, and try to recover from doing an insane amount of work you totally bailed on all weekend.
hunter
Shannon Blatt
very curious, but am not sure that I should voice these things, at
least not yet. I've talked a lot today already. maybe tomorrow...?
I'll just say that I agree with Hunter's take on this: we have
options and we should find strength in dealing with this together. I
echo his thanks to blayde and marie. and I offer thanks and a salute
to Emily too, for being brave enough to take this form business on
even though it was a bit scary.
Shannon
Amber
First off- i have the vests.
They were accidentally reloaded into my car. Will deliver them tomorrow- and take any blame.
Need an address please.
Second- hunter, i am so sorry you got stuck cleaning. I would have stayed longer - or my guests and i would have shown up today to help. I didn't know. When we left it appeared that all the rooms were swept and wiped- bathrooms clean- and i know travis did a lot of kitchen clean up.
About emily and the city- marie very standup of you to take this on. Seems you won't be doing so unsupported. If i can help too- i will.
Everyone- I do not see this as a opportunity to make a big political stink. Yes we have rights. We also agreed that the march would be conducted a specific way and it wasn't.
The focus is to support marie & kate and make sure this is off emily. More publicity etc would just bring her name into general public knowledge. So Not what emily needs.
It seems like the city just wants some compensation -as a slap on the wrist - for us not using sidewalks.
Why not play nice now and keep it as a Lesson for next year.
I wasn't in the march so i can't say much else.
Shannon Blatt
want to express them.
TAS was not responsible for the marchers taking the street. Media
reports (xtra.ca) confirm that organizers planned it to be a sidewalk
march and that "enthusiastic participants spontaneously took to the
streets." I believe many people will confirm that they saw and heard
TAS organizers pleading with people to get back on the sidewalk, but a
spontaneous tide of bodies overwhelmed the poor marshalls. How can
TAS be held responsible for that?
Part of me suspects that the city is simply obliged to make some fuss,
blow some smoke, and issue an invoice as to do otherwise would be to
"encourage such conduct", but that that there won't be a peep if it
doesn't get paid. The police were not requested to attend (were
they?) They were not required to attend. I don't know about anyone
else, but if I'm at a restaurant and someone puts an item on my bill
that I didn't order, I don't pay for it. But that's TAS' call.
One approach though may be to have TAS sort of stay clean and quiet on
this and willing to pay, but for others of us to form a sort of "TAS
defense front", claiming outrage at TAS being invoiced and the heavy
phone message left for Emily. We could request a meeting with the
Mayor and Chief of Police and demo outside city hall if need be if we
don't get that meeting pronto. At the meeting, we could politely but
assertively outline concerns about police conduct towards trans people
and about city services/facilities issues that impact upon trans
people negatively and state that we find it galling that TAS is being
punished and asked to pay for policing for the spontaneous, collective
action of trans people who were protesting, in part, against the
police (there was clearly anti-police signage in the march) and that
we are offended and galled by the heavy approach to Emily. Or, we can
just leave Emily out of it and focus on the invoice, if that's what
Emily prefers.
In the end, we may back them off from invoicing TAS, without TAS
having to be "uncooperative", so that it stays insurable and in the
good graces, and more importantly, we may get some face time with the
Mayor and Chief that opens dialogue on these critical safety issues
and makes them more aware of our issues and brings us to the fore of
their minds as a community that has pressing concerns that are
distinct from the booze/razors/consumer goods advertising frenzy that
is corporate gay pride (which is to say, that march should not be
treated as if it were a corporate pride parade, but rather as a
community shouting about its urgent needs.) Maybe some of that top
end dialogue will create opportunities for further engagement with the
city and the cops over how our community is treated and served. If
the Mayor and Chief direct change and dialogue and education to
happen, it'll happen, yes? We need to convince them to direct that
change. Let's take this energy and this opportunity and make
something like a change to strip-search policy and jail/detention
policy our goal, citing the fact that these emerged as major concerns
of the community during the course of the Forum. I don't think that
working on that important issue means we can't be working on other
stuff in the provincial or federal areas too if we wish, but what's
wrong with trying to get some of these no-brainer issues like the city
jail and police strip-search stuff dealt with too? I think the time
to act on that stuff is now. right now. we have a great opening with
this invoice issue, and some decent political leverage with it
This approach isn't necessarily one that pleases everyone (or anyone,
entirely) but it might be the starting point for discussion around an
approach that makes everyone feel comfortable and that makes some
strategic sense and builds upon the momentum and energy generated by
the Forum and the March. It would keep us rolling along in action, in
constant mobilization, bringing constant pressure, creating change,
getting real work done, building more momentum.
I would love to see us do this. We can win.
Just my thoughts.
Shannon
hunter cubitt-cooke
Just a quick clarification: no need for you to apologize about the cleaning. I was specifically directing that at dani because she was talking about the old political hacks doing the cleaning up of "the mess". I know we got everything cleaned up from the college, I was just refering to the loads of dirty dishes, bags of clothes left behind, returning of music equipment, returning of tables etc. I am totally fine with doing it, no passive aggressive intention at all. It was just really frustrating for me that dani didnt help at all and then just shows up when its time to get opinionated.
h
Shannon Blatt
I was pretty distracted and arced out on adrenaline, but I don't
really recall seeing police do any substantial traffic control.
marshalls did that. the police followed from the rear (with a
classic, two-motorcycle parade escort.) If they were really doing
traffic control they'd at least have had two bikes up front too,
blocking cross streets as we proceeded through intersections.
It seems to me that TAS is being invoiced for a police service that it
neither requested *nor received*.
I find it hard to view that as anything but an attempt to punish,
intimidate and silence trans people.
S.
Corey Keith
I agree with you Shannon, that we never requested not required the police assistance. And as such, it is a way to intimidate us. Although, i am not sure it is specifically because we are trans but for any group to speak up and out. ike you said it is an opportunity to voice our concerns. However, I do believe we need to plan our next steps carefully. As this can work in our favor our against us. is there anyway we can me so we are all on the same page. i realize that we are all recovering from the amazing weekend, however, I think if we come from a team approach, how this will turn out will be much better.
namaste,
Corey
> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 12:09:16 -0700
> Subject: Re: New endpoint for Trans March
> From: shanno...@gmail.com
> To: vancouver-...@googlegroups.com
Turn down-time into play-time with Messenger games Play Now!
Shannon Blatt
a meeting to discuss next steps and I'm welcome at it, I will come to
it.
Thanks Corey, for all the hard and amazing work you did to make the
Forum happen. I appreciate it very, very much and I know others do
too.
In solidarity and pride,
Shannon
Amber
I suggest a few things:
1. the talking stick method be used. Perhaps time limits as well.
2. Both emily and cael (the special events liason) be present. And their concerns be validated and respected.
3. Kate and marie should be present too - as well as legal representation.
Note: If key folks are going to walk out if danielle is there- then she should be asked to refrain from attending.
The point being- any potential legal ramifications of the march will effect kate and not dani.
Emily Morgan
(In happier news, the Hospital Employees Union donation cheque for the forum finally arrived today. I'm also cleaning up loose ends with regards to seed money and unpaid receipts over the course of the next week or so.)
- Emily
> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 23:09:01 -0700
> From: aik...@yahoo.com
> Subject: RE: New endpoint for Trans March
> To: vancouver-...@googlegroups.com
romham
super clear. The form that this group chose to sign and agree to would
have said the following:
"On behalf of the above-named organizer,
I,____________________________________
hereby agree to indemnify and save harmless the City of Vancouver,
Vancouver Park Board, and Vancouver Police Board from and against
claims or demands arising from the event described in this application
and I agree to obtain appropriate liability insurance that is
satisfactory to the Director of Risk and Emergency Management."
That means that whichever individual or group who put their name down
as being the organizer is going to pay the fines incurred.
As has been said, there are reasons why many groups refuse to apply
for a permit to hold a demonstration: They have discovered through
experiences over time that the city will fine your ass if it goes
differently than you said it would. It doesnt matter one iota that
folks said the demo would stick to the streets and some folks decided
to go off on their own, or that no one from the VTF requested the
presence of the cops, and it certainly doesnt matter that we are
trans. Marginalized communities all across this province have learned
this time and again. The trans community is no different. By signing
this form, the VTF agreed to either hold the type of event it promised
to, or to pay the costs incurred for not doing so.
ive always been real clear about how i feel about this stuff in any
context (i.e. no payment for protest!!!), but i really believe, for
what its worth, that this is neither the time nor the circumstance
under which to challenge this. You agreed to the rules, and now youve
got to cough up the dough. Chalk it up to a learning experience and
dont make the same mistake again (either dont apply at all, or be
prepared to hold a tighter event or incur costs in future).
just the 2 cents of someone who has gone through this process more
than i care to since the early 90's, and who has seen the city not
budge a single inch (the city is really invested in NOT budging on
this: can you imagine what would happen if every time a marginalized
group in this city didnt want to pay these fines the city said "oh,
ok, because we've been such assholes to your community"? Believe me
folks, they will get the money, and you will be burnt the fuck out.
It sucks.
Save yer energies! Theres work and relaxing to be done!
xoxoxox
> Game on: Challenge friends to great games on Messengerhttp://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9734387
hunter cubitt-cooke
for the record, I dont think any legal rammifications should be affecting kate, kate didnt even march at all as far as I know.
a number of people did not want the permit and insurance to begin with, this is why. among a slew of other reasons. I tried to call an emergency meeting so that these papers would not be signed, but here we are.
I am frustrated for a number of reasons, and it seems most people are. but lets focus on the fact that we put together an amazing forum? I think the priority is that no one is left to deal with this alone.
what about meeting without representatives from the city to come to some unified decisions? that way if we are meeting with them afterwords we are not infighting in front of them.
also, I am confused about why the bill would be going to tas and not to the trans forum collective. didnt emily apply on behalf of the forum collective?
If we meet, please, lets do it in a respectfull way, respecting peoples intentions and where they are coming from.
I like the ideas of the talking stick and time limits for talking.
As tas hasnt received the bill yet I think we could all use some time to chill out. We need to have a forum debrief at some point, there are a number of things to discuss. how about holding a meeting on sunday the 15th? just a suggestion.
Hunter
romham
responsible for paying anything. Only those whose names appear will be
billed. Having said that, if NO one put their name on it, and it was
just VTF on there? That would be different. In that case, and the city
will NOT tell you this freely, but anyone the city was able to connect
to the organizing of the march would be potentially billed. My
understanding from these messages is that Emilys name is on the form,
as is TAS (?). Either will be liable.
Another question...this post march debrief thing, is it open to anyone
on this list...or...is it open to the wider community...or is it just
a collective gathering?
xo
On Jul 29, 9:07 am, hunter cubitt-cooke <hunter.c.co...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> for the record, I dont think any legal rammifications should be affecting
> kate, kate didnt even march at all as far as I know.
> a number of people did not want the permit and insurance to begin with, this
> is why. among a slew of other reasons. I tried to call an emergency meeting
> so that these papers would not be signed, but here we are.
> I am frustrated for a number of reasons, and it seems most people are. but
> lets focus on the fact that we put together an amazing forum? I think the
> priority is that no one is left to deal with this alone.
> what about meeting without representatives from the city to come to some
> unified decisions? that way if we are meeting with them afterwords we are
> not infighting in front of them.
> also, I am confused about why the bill would be going to tas and not to the
> trans forum collective. didnt emily apply on behalf of the forum collective?
> If we meet, please, lets do it in a respectfull way, respecting peoples
> intentions and where they are coming from.
> I like the ideas of the talking stick and time limits for talking.
> As tas hasnt received the bill yet I think we could all use some time to
> chill out. We need to have a forum debrief at some point, there are a number
> of things to discuss. how about holding a meeting on sunday the 15th? just a
> suggestion.
> Hunter
>
hunter cubitt-cooke
Corey Keith
And yes the meeting should open and respectful...talking stick is an awesome idea. Anything can be used for this, a stone, feather, an actual stick. I have an eagle feather that can be used.
Unfortunately, I believe Hunter is right that TAS and Emily are the names on the paper work, as such,t hey are liable. And yes, Kate is not liable as her name is not on anything and was not at the parade. And yes, TAS has not received a bill yet. So we have time yet, lets take it easy, do self care and then when it is time, we will have time to head into this with a clear mind and good intentions.
And yes, the meeting needs to include some debriefing. In terms of the date, my parents will be comming down that weekend. i would like to be there, however I may not be able to create the time. if I can, I will. However, I want everyone to have the meeting when they can and not necessarily based on my crazy schedule.
Namaste, Corey
There is not enough darkness in all the world to put out the light of even one small candle.
~Robert AldenDate: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:37:16 -0700
Subject: Re: New endpoint for Trans March
From: hunter....@gmail.com
To: vancouver-...@googlegroups.com
Amber
Corey Keith
If there is any luck you will be able to join us.
There is not enough darkness in all the world to put out the light of even one small candle.
~Robert Alden> From: aik...@yahoo.com
> Subject: RE: New endpoint for Trans March
> To: vancouver-...@googlegroups.com
>
r g
hugs and healing to you
xox
just so you all know- my surgery has taken a bad turn. I am going back into the hospital today. Not sure if i can make any meetings or not. If can i will . If not - Good luck with all this.
"Only through the state of being present can one take joy, and it is impossible to be present in this environment that is called the world without being a heartbroken loser. So get it the fuck on."
~ Inga Muscio ~
Gwenneth Athena Katsaris
Shannon Blatt
you Amber. I'll be thinking of you. If we can help, say the word.
Shannon
Roxana Doo
just so you all know- my surgery has taken a bad turn. I am going back into the hospital today. Not sure if i can make any meetings or not. If can i will . If not - Good luck with all this.
Roxana Doo
Emily Morgan
> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 07:50:08 -0700
> From: aik...@yahoo.com
> Subject: RE: New endpoint for Trans March
> To: vancouver-...@googlegroups.com
>
>
>
>
hunter cubitt-cooke
let me know if you need anything, i wish you healing.
hunter