Seeking a venue

[Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"]

I've been emailing with Scott Daniel Foss, of Turbovans fame, about
using some of his words on the wiki. He has plenty of swell tips and
tricks and is free with his advice. He says that, "I am writing from 46
years experience fixing and modifiying cars and motorcycles after all,
so think I've got the creds to offer something to 'experts.' We all can
always learn more."

Yeah, his grammar is iffy, but that aside, he does write clearly. He
used to have a column in a newspaper, a tech column, and his words were
edited by someone which worked, but I said I ain't volunteering to edit
his works, I would post it for him.

He's rather hoping to find a central location where his "essays" can be
consolidated and indexed. I told him I'd check with the Lords of the
Wiki about whether a section could be set aside on the wiki for his
articles. He's tossing ideas like "Tips and Tricks for Newbies and
Experts" or "effective backyard methods on vanagons and other wheeled
impliments" -- something like that.

And he is a bit proprietary about his word, so if they get posted, he'd
want them editable only by him, or anyone in admin.

So before I toss him into the wilds of blog-land, which near as I can
tell, do not have tables of content or indexes, I thought I pitch the
idea here. He is a valuable resource.
--
Rocky J Squirrel
84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
74 Westrailia: (Ladybug Trailer company, San Juan Capistrano, Calif.)
Bend, OR
KG6RCR

[Marius Strom]

Hmmm, I'm with you until that last part - the point of a wiki is that
articles are improvable/editable by any. I'd be hesitant to offer
change-patrolled pages, but that's just me.

[Jake de Villiers]

Scott is a good guy and a good mechanic but he's a terrible writer.

I'll have a go at editing his stuff if you want - we have a good relationship going p-mail and I have enough knowledge to keep me from chopping off some good advice.

I kinda think that if you want to have your work untouchable, then you should publish it yourself, but maybe that's just me.

YMMV

Seeya, Jake

--
Jake

1984 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX 'The Grey Van'
1986 Westy Weekender/2.5 SOHC Suby 'Dixie'

Crescent Beach, BC

www.thebassspa.com
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
http://subyjake.googlepages.com/mydixiedarlin%27

[Sudhir Desai]

I think a WordPress blog would serve his purposes well.

[Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"]

I know what you mean, Marius. But if Scott was okay with having his
words be editable, how does the group feel about setting aside a part of
the wiki for his articles?

Sudhir -- does Wordpress provide a means to ToC or index articles?
Scott's easily bright enough to do his own web pages, but a blog would
be quicker and easier. He's looking for suggestions on ways to publish
and archive his stuff.

Jake -- if Scott wants proofing, you got the job. I know you been
wanting it. Say it -- say you want it, you really want it bad.

--
Rocky

[Marius Strom]

If it's ok to be editable, I'd be supportive of a Category for "Scott's
Articles" or some such.

[Mike South]

On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 8:09 PM, Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"
<camping...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I know what you mean, Marius. But if Scott was okay with having his words be
> editable, how does the group feel about setting aside a part of the wiki for
> his articles?

I really only know the basics of wiki-ing. The only way I know to
organize things is by category, and categories, like everything else,
are editable. He could make a category called "Turbo Tips" (or
something else Scott-specific). Everyone could put articles in there.
He could set a watch on the category page and then if someone put
something else in that category he could change it to a generic
category called "Tips and Tricks" with an explanation in the change
about the special nature of that category.

I don't see much harm in that. It's going to be up to him to put
watches on each page he cares about and revert any changes he doesn't
agree with.

Is he aware of the license under which it would be published, though?
If he's that possessive of it, I'm wondering if he understands that it
will be infinitely remixable.

mike

[Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"]

How does everyone else feel about this? Summary (if I understand Mike
South's suggestions):

The wiki would have a section for Tips 'n' Tricks. Scott has written a
buttload of stuff so there would be a Scott's Articlez section there, as
well as generic Tips and Tricks posted by Everyone Else. If others also
want to make Their Very Own Special Tips subpage, I think that's fine.

It would be Scott's job to keep an eye on the main index page to make
sure that someone doesn't put an article in "his" section.

Likewise, Scott, like we all, has to accept the license of the wiki:
that one's words are not sacrosanct. But that if someone changes Scott's
words to what he feels is technically incorrect, then it would also be
his job to back out the revision.*

If The Keepers of the Wiki (we need a catchphrase. I propose "Release
the Kraken!") are okay with that, I can pitch it at Scott.

============
* The wiki knows who changes what. The wiki never forgets. Except when
Sudhir has his mitts on it, then all bets are off. :)

[Steve Williams]

At 01:56 PM 7/6/2010, you wrote:
>... Scott Daniel Foss ... He's rather hoping to find a central

>location where his "essays" can be consolidated and indexed. I told

>him I'd check ... whether a section could be set aside on the wiki
>for his articles. ... And he is a bit proprietary about his word
>... he'd want them editable only by him ...

I am not in favor of this as proposed. When wikis work, it's because
of their open nature and impartial tone. As soon as you start
blessing one author over another, you're not impartial.

Perhaps wikis SHOULD make authorship more obvious, so readers can
recognize which articles are based on long experience vs. one newbie
in his garage. But I don't think this is the way to achieve that.

That said, if you guys tell me Scott's voice is valuable, then I'll
work with you to provide him with a web site that works for
him. Sounds like that's not a blog: He wants some structure to it,
not just a diary. And it needs support for an editorial cycle, so
those who are better writers can help spread his expertise.

I'll think about what software would be best for him. (Maybe he just
needs his OWN wiki?) Let's try to get him up and running.

Oh, and of course we'll want to point to his stuff liberally on the wiki.

[Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"]

Scott knows how to edit web pages, runs Dreamweaver, but is not too
motivated to build a web site. I really think his voice is useful, and
the vanagon community would benefit from having his words be easily
available.

My initial proposal to him was that I would just copy his words onto the
wiki w/o editing . . . take, for example, this gem (overlook the lousy
punctuation):

---- quote ----

"How To Get A Radiator Hose Off":

you jam a small screw driver under the edge of the hose, and squirt
WD-40 in there.
and just keep doing that .. the WD-40 has a very strong affect of
loosening how the hose gets bonded practically to what it's on.

there also is a special tool for getting under the edges of hoses.
The slang name for it is 'snotpicker'.
it's a tool with a handle like a screwdriver ...and a curley-Q tapered
point...
exacty the perfect tool to work under the edge of a hose, and twist .

I usually don't re-use the spring clamps. At least two things not-so-great
about them.

---- end quote ----

This is good stuff, guys. I'd like to find a way to save them on the wiki.

--
Rocky

[Peter DiFalco]

My 2 farthings: If the wiki's open, communal model doesn't work for Scott, then his words would be better off in something like a Wordpress Blog (which, by the way, supports Pages, not just Blog Posts, and therefore is completely capable of a hierarchy of content such that you can't even tell it's a blog, once you change the home page to a Page instead of the Blog Index). But I also really think this stuff would be valuable in the wiki, so a way to respect Scott's wishes would be to include his writing as block quotes in an article about a particular topic, with a footnote / citation back to the WP site which would be the holy and unmolested temple of Scott's writing. Folks aren't likely to mess with a block quote, but can add their own dissent, commentary, additional methods and context above and below such a quote. There may be cases where the first and last word on a subject may be this block quote. In others, his quote will be one of many opinions on a topic. 

So that's my midnight thinking, just an idea. 

Cheers,

Peter 

Quietest of the wiki-ers as I whittle away at my music studio wiring project.

[neil n]

On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 5:50 PM, Steve Williams <s...@sbw.org> wrote:

> I am not in favor of this as proposed. When wikis work, it's because of their open nature and impartial tone. As soon as you start > blessing one author over another, you're not impartial. ....

> I'll think about what software would be best for him.  (Maybe he just needs
> his OWN wiki?)  Let's try to get him up and running.
>
> Oh, and of course we'll want to point to his stuff liberally on the wiki.

This was part of my thoughts toward this. With ALL due respect to
Scott and his knowledge....

IMO, if he started his own website, and the Vanagonwiki pointed to
pages in his site, that would make sense to me. i.e. Vanagonwiki -
"Oil Change Tips. Problems?" --> link to a page in Scotts website
oil change section showing one possible "last resort" solution to a
stuck filter; a screwdriver through the filter. (no I don't know this
to be true of his techniques.... just an example) This is assuming he
structured this new website with a page *just* on "last resort" oil
change efforts, or at least an oil change page. More to it that meets
the eye. i.e. given my limited knowledge of web site/pages structure,
one can create quite a labyrinth of links. (not to mention what
happens when a web hoster decides to migrate a web site. <grin> )

My guess is that there might be some kind of "social" aspect to
posting to a "group" type website that would appeal to someone like
Scott. Hell. That kind of thing appeals to me more than posting out
there in the stratosphere to my own webpages. But like I said, that's
just me guessing. I'm just sayin is all. And the social aspect "is all
good" IMO. But I digress......

My old free Google pages was fairly easy to use. The newer one not so
much. Still. I bet there's user friendly blogs that would suit his
needs. I mean how much storage does one need? My old Google Pages site
was using way less than the 100MB. With pics and everything! And I
posted a bunch!

But who the Hell am I? ;) Just another newbie (well not really a
"newbie") in his garage. (er carport) ;)

Neil.

--
Neil Nicholson '81 VanaJetta 2.0 "Jaco"

http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/

http://groups.google.com/group/vanagons-with-vw-inline-4-cylinder-gas-engines

[Mike South]

One goal we had for the wiki was to make it a self-contained entity
that could be downloaded to dvd and brought along on a trip (to be
read on a laptop in emergencies). If we can find a way Scott is happy
to have his stuff on the wiki it would further that goal.

Having said that, I will reiterate (or clarify) that I don't think
anyone's content is important enough to make it not-wiki, i.e., not
community editable. There is no way we are going to have content on
there with spelling and grammar errors and factual inaccuracies that
require an admin to change. The whole point of the wiki is to make it
fast and easy to make changes so that irritation can be translated
into action.

He can always give the wiki a try and then just stop contributing if
he doesn't like how it goes. I think it's highly likely that reads
will way, way, way outnumber edits.

mike