VNA in the Execution Context
3 views
Skip to first unread message
Michael _P
Nov 19, 2009, 5:33:39 AM11/19/09
to Value Networks
In the recent post in LinkedIn titled “Can Lean Co-exist with
Innovation?”, David Meggitt said: “I think all VNA followers
appreciate that VNA allows variation (positively encourages it!), is
focussed on all contributors not just the end customer and also is
capable of battening down the formal processes when needed” I am
trying to find the difference between VNA’s capability “of battening
down the formal processes when needed” and analogous capability of
well-defined and positioned business process.
By ‘well-defined’, I mean the process that has clear conditions of
utilisation set and controlled. That is, if real life does not fit
into these conditions, the process should not be used. But what an
organisation has to use instead?
The key here is the positioning of the process. Saying that the
process cannot alter itself and change its conditions of utilisation
while VNA can is a bit comparing apples to oranges. However, when we
put VNA in front of the proper positioning, we have a chance to
compare things one-for-one. Proper process positioning means that the
process exists and operates in the pre-defined Execution Context,
which comprises a set of policies, rules and regulations, and actually
governs the process usage and execution.
It is not obvious that an urgent need of changing the process’
conditions of utilisation is caused by an innovation. It seems more
like a reaction to the error/exception/ disaster recovery, at last.
Innovations in the ‘at-hock’ manner are not usually good things, IMO;
innovations have to be properly prepared, asserted, calculated and so
on. How to process innovations, how to batter “down the formal
processes when needed” and what to do in such case must be written in
the governing policies that may or may not be realised in the super-
process or in the alternative/mitigating process. In other words
Execution Context must define what to do if existing process does not
work. The level of instructions may be anything the enterprise
suggests as right. For example, the policy may say: ‘Go to library and
take a course, then design new, more adequate process. When you come
up with the solution, you have to follow these and these steps to
realise it’.
If you say that this is another constraint for the innovative spirit,
let me give you real-life example. In IT, there is a method of project
management that was created to address the high level of uncertainty
in the business requirements. The method requires frequent
interactions with business stakeholders to verify and validate that
each developed element of the IT product is in line with business
intentions. There are many cases of real success of the method as well
as many cases where business assumed that correct business
requirements (and related work/responsibilities on the business side)
may be omitted and actual requirements ended in the formula ‘Make this
beautiful’ or ‘Make me happy’. That is, the regular process of
formulating and validating business requirements was dropped (it took
too much time from the business side to model anticipated results,
collect approvals, write traceable documents, etc.) with no regulated
substitution. The quality of business requirements became the subject
of honesty and professionalism of business individuals but IT had to
invest money into implementation of not really assessed business
needs, and, as expected, failed in the eyes of the same business
individuals.
I think, VNA must be applied to creation of Execution Context first
and only then – to the business activity analysis within this
Execution Context.
Innovation?”, David Meggitt said: “I think all VNA followers
appreciate that VNA allows variation (positively encourages it!), is
focussed on all contributors not just the end customer and also is
capable of battening down the formal processes when needed” I am
trying to find the difference between VNA’s capability “of battening
down the formal processes when needed” and analogous capability of
well-defined and positioned business process.
By ‘well-defined’, I mean the process that has clear conditions of
utilisation set and controlled. That is, if real life does not fit
into these conditions, the process should not be used. But what an
organisation has to use instead?
The key here is the positioning of the process. Saying that the
process cannot alter itself and change its conditions of utilisation
while VNA can is a bit comparing apples to oranges. However, when we
put VNA in front of the proper positioning, we have a chance to
compare things one-for-one. Proper process positioning means that the
process exists and operates in the pre-defined Execution Context,
which comprises a set of policies, rules and regulations, and actually
governs the process usage and execution.
It is not obvious that an urgent need of changing the process’
conditions of utilisation is caused by an innovation. It seems more
like a reaction to the error/exception/ disaster recovery, at last.
Innovations in the ‘at-hock’ manner are not usually good things, IMO;
innovations have to be properly prepared, asserted, calculated and so
on. How to process innovations, how to batter “down the formal
processes when needed” and what to do in such case must be written in
the governing policies that may or may not be realised in the super-
process or in the alternative/mitigating process. In other words
Execution Context must define what to do if existing process does not
work. The level of instructions may be anything the enterprise
suggests as right. For example, the policy may say: ‘Go to library and
take a course, then design new, more adequate process. When you come
up with the solution, you have to follow these and these steps to
realise it’.
If you say that this is another constraint for the innovative spirit,
let me give you real-life example. In IT, there is a method of project
management that was created to address the high level of uncertainty
in the business requirements. The method requires frequent
interactions with business stakeholders to verify and validate that
each developed element of the IT product is in line with business
intentions. There are many cases of real success of the method as well
as many cases where business assumed that correct business
requirements (and related work/responsibilities on the business side)
may be omitted and actual requirements ended in the formula ‘Make this
beautiful’ or ‘Make me happy’. That is, the regular process of
formulating and validating business requirements was dropped (it took
too much time from the business side to model anticipated results,
collect approvals, write traceable documents, etc.) with no regulated
substitution. The quality of business requirements became the subject
of honesty and professionalism of business individuals but IT had to
invest money into implementation of not really assessed business
needs, and, as expected, failed in the eyes of the same business
individuals.
I think, VNA must be applied to creation of Execution Context first
and only then – to the business activity analysis within this
Execution Context.
David Meggitt
Nov 19, 2009, 5:59:20 PM11/19/09
to Value Networks
Hi Michael, a great contribution, and I can certainly elaborate.
Your further help needed. Where would you like additional
contributions to the thread to be added? Here or in the Open VNA
Linked-In group? We were hoping to deal with practitioner content in
the latter, despite its small size at the moment.
Your further help needed. Where would you like additional
contributions to the thread to be added? Here or in the Open VNA
Linked-In group? We were hoping to deal with practitioner content in
the latter, despite its small size at the moment.
David Meggitt
Nov 20, 2009, 8:02:21 AM11/20/09
to Value Networks
Ha! I see I wrote "More on the pros and cons of lean v VNA can be
found on the Google group of course."
This is open to misinterpretation: what I meant was that past postings
on the Google group (here) have addressed the issues to date.
The idea was to continue with any ongoing dialogue on LinkedIn here
http://tinyurl.com/yclv95t
For simplicity, suggest that remain here.
David
found on the Google group of course."
This is open to misinterpretation: what I meant was that past postings
on the Google group (here) have addressed the issues to date.
The idea was to continue with any ongoing dialogue on LinkedIn here
http://tinyurl.com/yclv95t
For simplicity, suggest that remain here.
David
Michael _P
Nov 20, 2009, 4:41:35 AM11/20/09
to Value Networks
Thank you, David. At this moment I am more interested in What's What
than in How. Thus, this current thread is more preferable to me.
However, if you suggest it might be useful, you are free to copy my
posts into the LinkedIn thread.
than in How. Thus, this current thread is more preferable to me.
However, if you suggest it might be useful, you are free to copy my
posts into the LinkedIn thread.
Khaled Islaih
Nov 20, 2009, 1:21:10 AM11/20/09
to value-n...@googlegroups.com
Hi all,
New article focused on new immigration trends in today's networked world.
"Millions of immigrants live transnational lives--in both the U.S. and their home countries. This phenomenon is changing the economic, social and political global landscape--and the way we should think about immigration".
"I am a Brazilian living in America, but my life is more than just that of an immigrant. I am one of the millions of immigrants who are choosing to live transnational lives. We live, work, socialize, play, and do politics in the United States and in our home countries. We are both here and there, quite unlike the past generations of immigrants who left their homes and never looked back." So begins Alvaro Lima's sweeping review of transnational immigration and its implications for nations and communities." Best,
Khaled
Khaled A. Islaih
Community Developer, Freelance Writer and Intercultural Speaker
Innovation - Collaboration - Transformation Email: in...@khaledislaih.com Web: www.khaledislaih.com Blog: Community Conversations Follow me on Twitter
--- On Thu, 11/19/09, Michael _P <m3po...@yahoo.com> wrote: |
Michael _P
Nov 21, 2009, 2:01:55 PM11/21/09
to Value Networks
Khaled,
I am not really happy with the change of the topic; I would like to
have it back.
Also, I have not learnt any new things from your post, everything is
well-known - I am on a migrant visa in the UK (from the US)...
- Michael
On Nov 20, 6:21 am, Khaled Islaih <kisl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> New article focused on new immigration trends in today's networked world.
>
> "Millions of immigrants live transnational lives--in both the U.S. and their home countries. This phenomenon is changing the economic, social and political global landscape--and the way we should think about immigration".
>
> "I am a Brazilian living in America, but my life is more than just that of an immigrant. I am one of the millions of immigrants who are choosing to live transnational lives. We live, work, socialize, play, and do politics in the United States and in our home countries. We are both here and there, quite unlike the past generations of immigrants who left their homes and never looked back." So begins Alvaro Lima's sweeping review of transnational immigration and its implications for nations and communities."
> http://www.nupolis.com/public/docs/Transnational%20Immigration%20Over...
I am not really happy with the change of the topic; I would like to
have it back.
Also, I have not learnt any new things from your post, everything is
well-known - I am on a migrant visa in the UK (from the US)...
- Michael
On Nov 20, 6:21 am, Khaled Islaih <kisl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> New article focused on new immigration trends in today's networked world.
>
> "Millions of immigrants live transnational lives--in both the U.S. and their home countries. This phenomenon is changing the economic, social and political global landscape--and the way we should think about immigration".
>
> "I am a Brazilian living in America, but my life is more than just that of an immigrant. I am one of the millions of immigrants who are choosing to live transnational lives. We live, work, socialize, play, and do politics in the United States and in our home countries. We are both here and there, quite unlike the past generations of immigrants who left their homes and never looked back." So begins Alvaro Lima's sweeping review of transnational immigration and its implications for nations and communities."
>
> Best,
>
> Khaled
>
>
> Khaled A. Islaih
> Community Developer, Freelance Writer and Intercultural Speaker
> Innovation - Collaboration - Transformation
> Email: i...@khaledislaih.com Web:www.khaledislaih.com
> Best,
>
> Khaled
>
>
> Khaled A. Islaih
> Community Developer, Freelance Writer and Intercultural Speaker
> Innovation - Collaboration - Transformation
> Blog: Community Conversations
> Social Web: Facebook and LinkedIn
> Follow me on Twitter
>
>
>
> --- On Thu, 11/19/09, Michael _P <m3pou...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Social Web: Facebook and LinkedIn
> Follow me on Twitter
>
>
>
Khaled Islaih
Nov 21, 2009, 3:38:23 PM11/21/09
to value-n...@googlegroups.com
Hi Michael,
Living here and there posting was a new thread (not an a follow up on your contribution). Apologies for this confusion.
However, the main idea behind my new thread is to explain that the acceleration of network organization and reasoning in our lives, communities, societies and nations is transforming everything around us including immigration / citizenship patterns and models.
Thanks for your understanding and tolerance,
Khaled
|
Khaled A. Islaih
Community Developer, Freelance Writer and Intercultural Speaker
|
Innovation - Collaboration - Transformation |
| --- On Sat, 11/21/09, Michael _P <m3po...@yahoo.com> wrote: |
David Meggitt
Nov 23, 2009, 6:25:09 AM11/23/09
to Value Networks
Michael, I see little distinction between the way you describe the
function of “Execution Context” and VNA’s capability of battening down
formal process when needed.
I think you are spot on in suggesting that VNA be applied to the
creation of Execution Context in conjunction with a level of
instruction that allows flexibility. Your example” Go to
library…..realise it,” is a good one.
In other words, VNA is used in conjunction with other techniques to
achieve successful outcomes.
Our focus in this thread is on flexibility. Innovation is triggered
by the unexpected and creativity, as purposeful activity, largely
unfolds within informal networks that lie outside detailed
prescription. You could have a policy which says “Go away and bring me
a solution for X upon your return,” and call that a process, but may
be somewhat stretching what is understood as part of a process in, for
example, an accountancy based ERP system.
So what can be done, for example, is to have a level of instruction
which says “Jim, go away, conduct conversations and research with whom
and with whatever and after two weeks create your deliverable and
initiate a new transaction.” A person will be accountable for that
task within that role and that portion of the work flow will be
auditable.
At some point, what Jim does may be more fully prescribed and become
automated.
Hopefully, to facilitate this we will have at our disposal:
>> VNA mindset that is comfortable with the mix (tangible/intangible), (formal/informal)
>> Connectivity to agile systems / declarative language et al
>> Prototyping practices that quickly create a working system for user feedback
I throw in the last as a potential approach to the project management
of an IT project you mention, although you may imply that by the term
“model.”
With the above in place, many organisations will be better equipped
using web 2 .0 technologies to build auditable work flows that
reflect what people really want to do and who may currently be working
around inflexible systems that stifle productive development.
VNA can be conceived and applied as an underpinning approach to
tackling most situations and connecting to useful existing techniques,
be they IT/BT as above or to a clutch of behavioural approaches.
You can anticipate rapid developments from now on, with a variety of
toolkits from multiple sources.
David
function of “Execution Context” and VNA’s capability of battening down
formal process when needed.
I think you are spot on in suggesting that VNA be applied to the
creation of Execution Context in conjunction with a level of
instruction that allows flexibility. Your example” Go to
library…..realise it,” is a good one.
In other words, VNA is used in conjunction with other techniques to
achieve successful outcomes.
Our focus in this thread is on flexibility. Innovation is triggered
by the unexpected and creativity, as purposeful activity, largely
unfolds within informal networks that lie outside detailed
prescription. You could have a policy which says “Go away and bring me
a solution for X upon your return,” and call that a process, but may
be somewhat stretching what is understood as part of a process in, for
example, an accountancy based ERP system.
So what can be done, for example, is to have a level of instruction
which says “Jim, go away, conduct conversations and research with whom
and with whatever and after two weeks create your deliverable and
initiate a new transaction.” A person will be accountable for that
task within that role and that portion of the work flow will be
auditable.
At some point, what Jim does may be more fully prescribed and become
automated.
Hopefully, to facilitate this we will have at our disposal:
>> VNA mindset that is comfortable with the mix (tangible/intangible), (formal/informal)
>> Connectivity to agile systems / declarative language et al
>> Prototyping practices that quickly create a working system for user feedback
I throw in the last as a potential approach to the project management
of an IT project you mention, although you may imply that by the term
“model.”
With the above in place, many organisations will be better equipped
using web 2 .0 technologies to build auditable work flows that
reflect what people really want to do and who may currently be working
around inflexible systems that stifle productive development.
VNA can be conceived and applied as an underpinning approach to
tackling most situations and connecting to useful existing techniques,
be they IT/BT as above or to a clutch of behavioural approaches.
You can anticipate rapid developments from now on, with a variety of
toolkits from multiple sources.
David
Michael _P
Nov 23, 2009, 6:31:28 AM11/23/09
to Value Networks
I am curious if anybody knows about the results of VNA applied to the
Cloud Computing.
In my BLOGs in ebizQ I expressed several doubts with regard to
business VALUE offered by the Cloud Computing Technology model to the
corporate Business (http://www.ebizq.net/blogs/service_oriented/
2009/01/jumping_into_cloud_be_sure_you_know_how_to_get_out.php
and http://www.ebizq.net/blogs/service_oriented/2009/11/cloudy_business_platform.php
)
I have discussed this topic with several manages and architects in
different IT organisations and got an impression that if my opponent
is a fan of Clouds, conversation immediately deviates toward 'how
great technical solution the Cloud Computing is'. The major proposed
business values were about time-to-market that Clouds can shorten in
some cases.
When my collocutor has a business acumen, concerns about intangible
business values rise immediately after the security and trust related
concerns.
My take on IT disappearance into the Clouds is in that I think the
corporate business will loose much more than gain at the first moment.
I think that intangible business values are the ones that can save the
organisations in the frequently changing markets of our days because
they can be transformed into tangible business values with each new
adopted change. That is, the solution here is in coupling, merge and
even convergence between Business and Technology for higher
flexibility and business efficiency (at the end), which Clouds ‘by
definition’ cannot provide.
Cloud Computing.
In my BLOGs in ebizQ I expressed several doubts with regard to
business VALUE offered by the Cloud Computing Technology model to the
corporate Business (http://www.ebizq.net/blogs/service_oriented/
2009/01/jumping_into_cloud_be_sure_you_know_how_to_get_out.php
and http://www.ebizq.net/blogs/service_oriented/2009/11/cloudy_business_platform.php
)
I have discussed this topic with several manages and architects in
different IT organisations and got an impression that if my opponent
is a fan of Clouds, conversation immediately deviates toward 'how
great technical solution the Cloud Computing is'. The major proposed
business values were about time-to-market that Clouds can shorten in
some cases.
When my collocutor has a business acumen, concerns about intangible
business values rise immediately after the security and trust related
concerns.
My take on IT disappearance into the Clouds is in that I think the
corporate business will loose much more than gain at the first moment.
I think that intangible business values are the ones that can save the
organisations in the frequently changing markets of our days because
they can be transformed into tangible business values with each new
adopted change. That is, the solution here is in coupling, merge and
even convergence between Business and Technology for higher
flexibility and business efficiency (at the end), which Clouds ‘by
definition’ cannot provide.
John Bordeaux
Nov 23, 2009, 11:30:07 AM11/23/09
to value-n...@googlegroups.com
Hi,
This is a conversation I would love to engage (headed out on holiday in a bit though) - in my position I have converted us from an enterprise IT infrastructure to a hybrid approach that includes Cloud services. Obviously I have a position, since I'm staking my career there, but I'd love to learn more. One thing that may mark me as an outlier: I represent a non-profit Foundation rather than a business operating in a market defined by competition for revenue.
jb
This is a conversation I would love to engage (headed out on holiday in a bit though) - in my position I have converted us from an enterprise IT infrastructure to a hybrid approach that includes Cloud services. Obviously I have a position, since I'm staking my career there, but I'd love to learn more. One thing that may mark me as an outlier: I represent a non-profit Foundation rather than a business operating in a market defined by competition for revenue.
jb
David Meggitt
Nov 23, 2009, 12:10:14 PM11/23/09
to Value Networks
Value networks help tame value chains in the cloud!
http://tinyurl.com/kwofc4
(You will need to sign in).
On Nov 23, 11:31 am, Michael _P <m3pou...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I am curious if anybody knows about the results of VNA applied to the
> Cloud Computing.
>
> In my BLOGs in ebizQ I expressed several doubts with regard to
> business VALUE offered by the Cloud Computing Technology model to the
> corporate Business (http://www.ebizq.net/blogs/service_oriented/
> 2009/01/jumping_into_cloud_be_sure_you_know_how_to_get_out.php
> and http://www.ebizq.net/blogs/service_oriented/2009/11/cloudy_business_p...
http://tinyurl.com/kwofc4
(You will need to sign in).
On Nov 23, 11:31 am, Michael _P <m3pou...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I am curious if anybody knows about the results of VNA applied to the
> Cloud Computing.
>
> In my BLOGs in ebizQ I expressed several doubts with regard to
> business VALUE offered by the Cloud Computing Technology model to the
> corporate Business (http://www.ebizq.net/blogs/service_oriented/
> 2009/01/jumping_into_cloud_be_sure_you_know_how_to_get_out.php
David Meggitt
Nov 23, 2009, 12:53:03 PM11/23/09
to Value Networks
John,
I am assuming this is our presentation....
http://www.slideshare.net/JohnBordeaux/self-organized-air-tasking-presentation
I've posted it on a UK managers' forum to illustrate the balance
between peer to peer/hierarchical organisation and self organisation.
Some of the military will see as well.
With value networks you can deploy any mix of both which may cost a
little to reveal.
One can also point to tangible outcomes. For example see here ...
http://valuenetworks.com/public/blog/207591?archive=Daily+.2009-11-01
David
On Nov 23, 4:30 pm, John Bordeaux <jborde...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> This is a conversation I would love to engage (headed out on holiday in a bit though) - in my position I have converted us from an enterprise IT infrastructure to a hybrid approach that includes Cloud services. Obviously I have a position, since I'm staking my career there, but I'd love to learn more. One thing that may mark me as an outlier: I represent a non-profit Foundation rather than a business operating in a market defined by competition for revenue.
>
> jb
> On Nov 23, 2009, at 6:31 AM, Michael _P wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I am curious if anybody knows about the results of VNA applied to the
> > Cloud Computing.
>
> > In my BLOGs in ebizQ I expressed several doubts with regard to
> > business VALUE offered by the Cloud Computing Technology model to the
> > corporate Business (http://www.ebizq.net/blogs/service_oriented/
> > 2009/01/jumping_into_cloud_be_sure_you_know_how_to_get_out.php
> > and http://www.ebizq.net/blogs/service_oriented/2009/11/cloudy_business_p...
I am assuming this is our presentation....
http://www.slideshare.net/JohnBordeaux/self-organized-air-tasking-presentation
I've posted it on a UK managers' forum to illustrate the balance
between peer to peer/hierarchical organisation and self organisation.
Some of the military will see as well.
With value networks you can deploy any mix of both which may cost a
little to reveal.
One can also point to tangible outcomes. For example see here ...
http://valuenetworks.com/public/blog/207591?archive=Daily+.2009-11-01
David
On Nov 23, 4:30 pm, John Bordeaux <jborde...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> This is a conversation I would love to engage (headed out on holiday in a bit though) - in my position I have converted us from an enterprise IT infrastructure to a hybrid approach that includes Cloud services. Obviously I have a position, since I'm staking my career there, but I'd love to learn more. One thing that may mark me as an outlier: I represent a non-profit Foundation rather than a business operating in a market defined by competition for revenue.
>
> jb
> On Nov 23, 2009, at 6:31 AM, Michael _P wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I am curious if anybody knows about the results of VNA applied to the
> > Cloud Computing.
>
> > In my BLOGs in ebizQ I expressed several doubts with regard to
> > business VALUE offered by the Cloud Computing Technology model to the
> > corporate Business (http://www.ebizq.net/blogs/service_oriented/
> > 2009/01/jumping_into_cloud_be_sure_you_know_how_to_get_out.php
John Bordeaux
Nov 23, 2009, 1:07:04 PM11/23/09
to value-n...@googlegroups.com
Yes, that's me - that is my doctoral dissertation. I'm humbled to
think it may be useful, no matter the context!
I can provide the accompanying paper if you think that may be useful.
Jb
think it may be useful, no matter the context!
I can provide the accompanying paper if you think that may be useful.
Jb
Michael _P
Nov 24, 2009, 5:02:04 AM11/24/09
to Value Networks
David, I agree with you on 'compatibility' between the VNA and the
concept of Execution Context.
As of formal/informal-innovation-policy, from the Governance
perspective the thing is considered formal if it is regulated by a
policy, written in the policy. I would disagree with the statement
"largely unfolds within informal networks" because 'formal networks'
and positions "that lie outside detailed prescription" are not the
same things. The trivial example is any corporate research center,
e.g. IBM's one, which is known as one of the most innovative resource
in Technology.
The real problem, IMO, is in the level of the policy and the level
where the policy is applied. If the prescriptive development policy,
for example, would be applied at the enterprise level, company may be
paralised. The same effect may be observed if en enterprise level
policy gets applied as the only policy to the development...
BTW, where do you see the Web 2 .0 technologies are better than
already existing proprietary Workflow products? If a company has such
product already (i.e. monies are paid), why Web 2.0 would needed?
- Michael
concept of Execution Context.
As of formal/informal-innovation-policy, from the Governance
perspective the thing is considered formal if it is regulated by a
policy, written in the policy. I would disagree with the statement
"largely unfolds within informal networks" because 'formal networks'
and positions "that lie outside detailed prescription" are not the
same things. The trivial example is any corporate research center,
e.g. IBM's one, which is known as one of the most innovative resource
in Technology.
The real problem, IMO, is in the level of the policy and the level
where the policy is applied. If the prescriptive development policy,
for example, would be applied at the enterprise level, company may be
paralised. The same effect may be observed if en enterprise level
policy gets applied as the only policy to the development...
BTW, where do you see the Web 2 .0 technologies are better than
already existing proprietary Workflow products? If a company has such
product already (i.e. monies are paid), why Web 2.0 would needed?
- Michael
Michael _P
Nov 24, 2009, 5:23:29 AM11/24/09
to Value Networks, m3po...@yahoo.com
I would like to return to the discussion topic and ask for your
opinions and comments on the following formula:
Process-centric Solution{Value Chain} + Intangible Business Values +
Execution Context =
Service-centric Solution {Value Networks},
where A{B} stands for 'A based on B'
- Michael
On Nov 23, 6:07 pm, John Bordeaux <jborde...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, that's me - that is my doctoral dissertation. I'm humbled to
> think it may be useful, no matter the context!
>
> I can provide the accompanying paper if you think that may be useful.
>
> Jb
>
opinions and comments on the following formula:
Process-centric Solution{Value Chain} + Intangible Business Values +
Execution Context =
Service-centric Solution {Value Networks},
where A{B} stands for 'A based on B'
- Michael
On Nov 23, 6:07 pm, John Bordeaux <jborde...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, that's me - that is my doctoral dissertation. I'm humbled to
> think it may be useful, no matter the context!
>
> I can provide the accompanying paper if you think that may be useful.
>
> Jb
>
> On Nov 23, 2009, at 12:53, David Meggitt <m...@davidmeggitt.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > John,
> > I am assuming this is our presentation....
> >http://www.slideshare.net/JohnBordeaux/self-organized-air-tasking-pre...
>
>
>
>
>
> > John,
> > I am assuming this is our presentation....
Michael _P
Nov 24, 2009, 5:08:51 AM11/24/09
to Value Networks
John,
first of all, please, accept my congratulations because not many have
"converted ... from an enterprise IT infrastructure to a hybrid
approach that includes Cloud services" successfully. The key-word to
me in your message is 'hybrid': I believe that full IT departure into
Clouds is a the major enterprise mistake while a hybrid solution for
the appropriate tasks is the thing to be. But this thoughtful approach
does not require such fanfares and noise around Clouds as we hear.
I certainly interested in your opinion on my posts and would like to
learn some details of your solution and lessons learnt.
- Michael
first of all, please, accept my congratulations because not many have
"converted ... from an enterprise IT infrastructure to a hybrid
approach that includes Cloud services" successfully. The key-word to
me in your message is 'hybrid': I believe that full IT departure into
Clouds is a the major enterprise mistake while a hybrid solution for
the appropriate tasks is the thing to be. But this thoughtful approach
does not require such fanfares and noise around Clouds as we hear.
I certainly interested in your opinion on my posts and would like to
learn some details of your solution and lessons learnt.
- Michael
> Hi,
> This is a conversation I would love to engage (headed out on holiday in a bit though) - in my position I have converted us from an enterprise IT infrastructure to a hybrid approach that includes Cloud services. Obviously I have a position, since I'm staking my career there, but I'd love to learn more. One thing that may mark me as an outlier: I represent a non-profit Foundation rather than a business operating in a market defined by competition for revenue.
>
> jb
> On Nov 23, 2009, at 6:31 AM, Michael _P wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I am curious if anybody knows about the results of VNA applied to the
> > Cloud Computing.
>
> > In my BLOGs in ebizQ I expressed several doubts with regard to
> > business VALUE offered by the Cloud Computing Technology model to the
> > corporate Business (http://www.ebizq.net/blogs/service_oriented/
> > 2009/01/jumping_into_cloud_be_sure_you_know_how_to_get_out.php
> > and http://www.ebizq.net/blogs/service_oriented/2009/11/cloudy_business_p...
> This is a conversation I would love to engage (headed out on holiday in a bit though) - in my position I have converted us from an enterprise IT infrastructure to a hybrid approach that includes Cloud services. Obviously I have a position, since I'm staking my career there, but I'd love to learn more. One thing that may mark me as an outlier: I represent a non-profit Foundation rather than a business operating in a market defined by competition for revenue.
>
> jb
> On Nov 23, 2009, at 6:31 AM, Michael _P wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I am curious if anybody knows about the results of VNA applied to the
> > Cloud Computing.
>
> > In my BLOGs in ebizQ I expressed several doubts with regard to
> > business VALUE offered by the Cloud Computing Technology model to the
> > corporate Business (http://www.ebizq.net/blogs/service_oriented/
> > 2009/01/jumping_into_cloud_be_sure_you_know_how_to_get_out.php
Michael _P
Nov 24, 2009, 5:20:11 AM11/24/09
to Value Networks
I would like to return back to the discussion topic and ask your
opinion on the following 'formula'
Process-centric Solution{Value Chain} + Intangible Business Values +
Execution Context =
Service-centric Solution {Value Networks}, where A{B} stands for 'A
based on B'
- Michael
On Nov 23, 6:07 pm, John Bordeaux <jborde...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, that's me - that is my doctoral dissertation. I'm humbled to
> think it may be useful, no matter the context!
>
> I can provide the accompanying paper if you think that may be useful.
>
> Jb
>
opinion on the following 'formula'
Process-centric Solution{Value Chain} + Intangible Business Values +
Execution Context =
Service-centric Solution {Value Networks}, where A{B} stands for 'A
based on B'
On Nov 23, 6:07 pm, John Bordeaux <jborde...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, that's me - that is my doctoral dissertation. I'm humbled to
> think it may be useful, no matter the context!
>
> I can provide the accompanying paper if you think that may be useful.
>
> Jb
>
> On Nov 23, 2009, at 12:53, David Meggitt <m...@davidmeggitt.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > John,
> > I am assuming this is our presentation....
> >http://www.slideshare.net/JohnBordeaux/self-organized-air-tasking-pre...
>
>
>
>
>
> > John,
> > I am assuming this is our presentation....
David Meggitt
Nov 25, 2009, 6:44:22 PM11/25/09
to Value Networks
On the mathematics of value networks, generally, please refer to the
following article:
http://www.openvaluenetworks.com/caseStudies/Estimating%20Value.pdf
and discussion:
http://groups.google.com/group/value-networks/browse_thread/thread/4a560ccaa29bd907/d05c8e1474031695?lnk=gst&q=ibm+systems+#d05c8e1474031695
I had reservations about the treatment of intangibles, but had
proposed no alternative.
As to your own equation: it would seem to follow, superficially, from
the discussion in this thread, but I would say, at the very least, it
needs the addition of a constant that is NOT dimensionless!
To get anywhere near comparing the two sides, I'm sure you would agree
that we need much more detail. Although there is an Object Model of
VNA somewhere, I would much prefer to see an entity relationship
diagram (cf abstract data type) of each major term. The one I would
prepare for VNA would be quite elaborate, including a raft of triads.
The short answer to your question I would suggest is "No, it does not
hold." But regret that further elaboration from me is not feasible at
the moment.
What are you trying to arrive at?
David
following article:
http://www.openvaluenetworks.com/caseStudies/Estimating%20Value.pdf
and discussion:
http://groups.google.com/group/value-networks/browse_thread/thread/4a560ccaa29bd907/d05c8e1474031695?lnk=gst&q=ibm+systems+#d05c8e1474031695
I had reservations about the treatment of intangibles, but had
proposed no alternative.
As to your own equation: it would seem to follow, superficially, from
the discussion in this thread, but I would say, at the very least, it
needs the addition of a constant that is NOT dimensionless!
To get anywhere near comparing the two sides, I'm sure you would agree
that we need much more detail. Although there is an Object Model of
VNA somewhere, I would much prefer to see an entity relationship
diagram (cf abstract data type) of each major term. The one I would
prepare for VNA would be quite elaborate, including a raft of triads.
The short answer to your question I would suggest is "No, it does not
hold." But regret that further elaboration from me is not feasible at
the moment.
What are you trying to arrive at?
David
Michael _P
Nov 26, 2009, 4:54:26 AM11/26/09
to Value Networks
David, thank you very much for such resourceful references. I am
responding now before reading them, however.
I also think that this equation is incomplete and m hope was to
solicit the missed elements from this discussion.
I am trying to validate the statement: Value Networks generalises and
includes Value Chain and via addressing two additional major aspects
such as intangible values and execution context. The former requires
to consider the changes based on the observation of the trends and
future valuations of existing business values while the latter brakes
the process-like isolation of the Chian part and says that its value
depends on the execution context (i.e. may be and should be changed
depending on the change in the context)
I am not sure that I have listed all additional 'things' that
constitute the Value Networks general superposition with regard to the
Value Chain. Actually, I would like to formulate in terms of business
values the fact that any business process (in the form of business
capabilities or in the form of order operational activities) is the
business service (to its consumers) while the opposite is not true.
- Michael
On Nov 25, 11:44 pm, David Meggitt <m...@davidmeggitt.com> wrote:
> On the mathematics of value networks, generally, please refer to the
> following article:http://www.openvaluenetworks.com/caseStudies/Estimating%20Value.pdf
> and discussion:http://groups.google.com/group/value-networks/browse_thread/thread/4a...
> > > >>> definition’ cannot provide.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
responding now before reading them, however.
I also think that this equation is incomplete and m hope was to
solicit the missed elements from this discussion.
I am trying to validate the statement: Value Networks generalises and
includes Value Chain and via addressing two additional major aspects
such as intangible values and execution context. The former requires
to consider the changes based on the observation of the trends and
future valuations of existing business values while the latter brakes
the process-like isolation of the Chian part and says that its value
depends on the execution context (i.e. may be and should be changed
depending on the change in the context)
I am not sure that I have listed all additional 'things' that
constitute the Value Networks general superposition with regard to the
Value Chain. Actually, I would like to formulate in terms of business
values the fact that any business process (in the form of business
capabilities or in the form of order operational activities) is the
business service (to its consumers) while the opposite is not true.
- Michael
On Nov 25, 11:44 pm, David Meggitt <m...@davidmeggitt.com> wrote:
> On the mathematics of value networks, generally, please refer to the
> following article:http://www.openvaluenetworks.com/caseStudies/Estimating%20Value.pdf
>
> - Show quoted text -
David Meggitt
Nov 27, 2009, 7:57:44 AM11/27/09
to Value Networks
Michael, your pursuit of truth embodies the spirit of value networking
- note the verb.
The equation should embrace the Plato/Socrates view that emotion plays
a role in decision making and that change is motivated from within.
Every individual has their own view of reality and in order to
identify what is "true" a process of dialectic or competition of ideas
is appropriate and which VNA embraces.
Have a read, too, of Verna's book "The Future of Knowledge," Ch Twelve
- The Value Network Perspective and note comments about ERP and SAP
systems and contrasting section on People are the Focus."
You write "I am trying to validate the statement: Value Networks
includes Value Chain and, via addressing additional major aspects
such as intangible values and execution context, reflects and models
more accurately how organisations, the extended enterprise and
business ecosystems really work."
Hope that helps,
I feel you should consider a dive into the detail of VNA and then
reconstruct an Architecture from what you discover, starting afresh.
Then compare and contrast with existing Architectures, including a
newish one called VPEC-T. Also note, as Verna pointed out to me back
in 2007, "people do not design IT for business webs or value networks
- they design for an enterprise architecture, relying on an
engineering approach modelled on the way architects and builders go
about constructing bridges and other structures." (Actually, civil
engineers design and construct bridges).
Your work is a most valuable contribution to the conversations that
are necessary to discover the tacit in each other, the tacit in
organisation and, indeed, the market/service beneficiaries as a whole.
Hopefully, it will embrace the intangibles and associated informal
networks where the potential energy resides, and the realisation of
Charles Ehin's sweet spots, plus Sergej's jazz in the moment which I
interpret as hearing patterns from the past and anticipating patterns
in the future.
As to further elaboration on the connections you are making, the
richness and the potential within VNA, I refer you to my last reply
and suggest a funded face to face dialogue to include other interested
parties, if appropriate.
David
- note the verb.
The equation should embrace the Plato/Socrates view that emotion plays
a role in decision making and that change is motivated from within.
Every individual has their own view of reality and in order to
identify what is "true" a process of dialectic or competition of ideas
is appropriate and which VNA embraces.
Have a read, too, of Verna's book "The Future of Knowledge," Ch Twelve
- The Value Network Perspective and note comments about ERP and SAP
systems and contrasting section on People are the Focus."
You write "I am trying to validate the statement: Value Networks
generalises and
includes Value Chain and via addressing two additional major aspects
such as intangible values and execution context."
You could try "The Value Network approach generalises and
includes Value Chain and via addressing two additional major aspects
such as intangible values and execution context."
includes Value Chain and, via addressing additional major aspects
such as intangible values and execution context, reflects and models
more accurately how organisations, the extended enterprise and
business ecosystems really work."
Hope that helps,
I feel you should consider a dive into the detail of VNA and then
reconstruct an Architecture from what you discover, starting afresh.
Then compare and contrast with existing Architectures, including a
newish one called VPEC-T. Also note, as Verna pointed out to me back
in 2007, "people do not design IT for business webs or value networks
- they design for an enterprise architecture, relying on an
engineering approach modelled on the way architects and builders go
about constructing bridges and other structures." (Actually, civil
engineers design and construct bridges).
Your work is a most valuable contribution to the conversations that
are necessary to discover the tacit in each other, the tacit in
organisation and, indeed, the market/service beneficiaries as a whole.
Hopefully, it will embrace the intangibles and associated informal
networks where the potential energy resides, and the realisation of
Charles Ehin's sweet spots, plus Sergej's jazz in the moment which I
interpret as hearing patterns from the past and anticipating patterns
in the future.
As to further elaboration on the connections you are making, the
richness and the potential within VNA, I refer you to my last reply
and suggest a funded face to face dialogue to include other interested
parties, if appropriate.
David
Michael _P
Nov 29, 2009, 1:07:50 PM11/29/09
to Value Networks
It it a brilliant rephrasing, David, thank you.
As of "existing Architectures, including a newish one called VPEC-T",
I will post some comments in my BLOG this week. In short, OASIS SOA
Ref. Arch. Foundation standard-draft, which I co-author, matches VPEC-
T approach in full (VPEC-T is not an architecture at all but an
analytical approach to creation of service-oriented architecture in
Technology and in Business).
The major change from the time of VPEC-T definition is the openly
asked question: VPEC-T tries to bridge between Business and
Technology assuming at the same time that they are separated; why are
they separated? Is the separation the right model for the modern
business organisation? Finally, such separation does not help Value
Networks much...
- Michael
As of "existing Architectures, including a newish one called VPEC-T",
I will post some comments in my BLOG this week. In short, OASIS SOA
Ref. Arch. Foundation standard-draft, which I co-author, matches VPEC-
T approach in full (VPEC-T is not an architecture at all but an
analytical approach to creation of service-oriented architecture in
Technology and in Business).
The major change from the time of VPEC-T definition is the openly
asked question: VPEC-T tries to bridge between Business and
Technology assuming at the same time that they are separated; why are
they separated? Is the separation the right model for the modern
business organisation? Finally, such separation does not help Value
Networks much...
- Michael
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
Message has been deleted
0 new messages