Re: [Valley-Free-Radio-Announcements:1190 Viridian Program

[Alan Vogel]

A pyramid however is a pyramid and it is not the same as a company that simply sells a service for a profit. In most cases the money is in the pyramid not the product.  I would look long and hard at this as a revenue source. The word sustainability is not a substitute for ethical.

Doesn't this marketing come-on give you a bad taste?

"Your income potential with Viridian is unlimited. When you become an Associate, you'll get paid for every customer you sign up. You'll get paid each month that they remain customers. You'll get paid even more when you sponsor others to become Viridian Associates, and for the customers they sign up."

I understand the station needs money, but it needs to be careful who it aligns itself with. If the station sells the service- or make it available to listeners as you put it, then in my opinion the station is, in fact, endorsing it, and by making it available to listeners and making money, the station is, in fact, selling it.

I see that Veridian is presenting itself as a way to fundraise and lists synagogues and churches, sports teams, parent associations, charities and community service organizations, but none by name, not one. I looked carefully at the website and while it's seductive it's doesn't provide much, if any, data. 

I do see that one of the senior VP's comes from the "neutraceutical" industry-  handles the pyramid part of the company, and is formerly of DuVita, a supplement company which she joined in 2010.

And that the founder bought a house near or on the beach in Westport CT for 1.7 million. Not a crime, far from it. Just an indication that this is a money making venture, again, that's fine, but that fact seems to be lost when reading the webpage and its highminded talk of its sustianability initiative.

All in all, I have a negative feeling about these pyramid schemes, which use a lot of words but give no detail- what wind farms for example will provide the energy? Yes, I'm a sceptic, practicing law and handling litigation made me one. When it costs nothing to get in, when it's all upside, well, when it seems too good to be true......

Best of luck with your decision.

Alan

On Feb 15, 2013, at 4:21 PM, Valley Free Radio WXOJ-LP <valleyfree...@gmail.com> wrote:

You are correct. Viridian is not unlike other companies that are set up to provide a service or product for a profit. The rates from Viridian are clearly displayed on the website for comparison with current rates. The difference is that there is a renewable energy component not available from the current providers. There are no promises of lower variable rates. The station receives a small amount every month for every person who signs up. As long as the amount received does not exceed a certain percentage of our income and isn't a primary source of funding, it is completely okay to accept the funds. There has been no endorsement for Viridian from Valley Free Radio. This is a new program we are trying out to sustain the station financially. Viridian has committed itself to sustainable renewable energy. There are no promises, and it has cost us nothing. If you decide that you would rather continue with your energy provider, that is up to you. If you switch to Viridian, a portion of your monthly bill will go to the station. That is up to you. We are promoting this to programmers only at this time. If you have better ideas for long term sustainable income or a better way to fund the station, we want to hear your ideas at the next board meeting or at the fundraiser social on February 22 or at the fundraiser on February 23.

Joshua Braska 

Co-Chair

On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 12:19 PM, <agv...@comcast.net> wrote:

I'm guessing Veridian is not unlike other companies that do the same thing in states that have deregulated. The problem is, in my experience, these are money making programs for the people that sign others up. You get money for each person you sign and a percentage of money for each person you get to sell the companies service. It's a pyramid scheme. If this is the case, I have serious questions about the ethics, whether the company provides the prospective customer with their kilowatts per hour rate or only says " we guarantee you'll pay less." Also, who gets the money? And how can VFR, a non- profit community station involve itself, and endorse, in this kind of thing? The one I'm familiar with, well, unfortunately I can't remember the name right now, I'll check back, but it is as close to a scam as you can get. The sign up video made me cringe.

Please vet this carefully and bring it before the Board before you do anything else. 

I just got this off the Veridian website:

"Viridian offers you an opportunity to start a business with no large initial investment, no inventory to purchase and no monthly overhead, with the benefits of unlimited earning potential. You set your own hours and you decide how big you want your business to be. Plus, you’ll be a part of a fast growing company that is making a tangible difference in the lives of its Associates.

Now that you know about the Viridian opportunity – that it’s affordable, green, easy to sell, and can lead to your financial freedom – there’s just one last question: Why not? Go for it. Join the Viridian Network"

Think about it. They are using "green" to build a pyramid.

Frankly, I have no use for these companies. Just another get- rich scheme. I'm not criticizing you Joshua, simply trying to educate,

Just my opinion. That this has no place at VFR. AT ALL.

Alan

On Feb 14, 2013, at 11:32 AM, Joshua Braska <vfrprog...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello, Valley Free Radio Members.

We have a new program through Viridian that can help people save money on their electric bill and help raise money for the station. All you have to do is get out your electric bill and go the link below.

www.viridian.com/valleyfreeradio/

Please take some time to familiarize yourself with the website, the company, and the rates. It is easy to sign up if it makes sense for you. Please email me any questions you may have (joshua...@yahoo.com). We are offering this to programmers and others involved with the station, but eventually, we will be inviting listeners to sign up. The program hasn't cost us anything except time to set it up. Eventually, this could become a steady stream of income for the station.

Thank you for your support in this program.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Valley Free Radio Announcements" group.
To post to this group, send email to a board member or to the full board (bo...@valleyfreeradio.org); those are the only people who can post to this list-serv.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
Valley-Free-Radio-Ann...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/Valley-Free-Radio-Announcements?hl=en
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Valley Free Radio Announcements" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to valley-free-radio-ann...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
 
 

[Shawn Smith]

It certainly smells of alignment with Veridian to me. I'm not judging Veridian since I know very little about the company but promoting any corporation whether it's green or not is something we should be very careful about. I remember when PBS didn't have commercials and now they do. You can word things in many ways but the bottom line is that once you give a plug for a company, it's an ad. I wouldn't be thrilled about throwing this out to VFR listeners. It's never been easy being VFR and trying to bring money to the station and it never will be but we should always feel good about how it's coming in. During my brief stint as Fundraising Coordinator this all became very clear. Thanks for your ideas and efforts.

Shawn Smith

Alan

Valley-Free-Radio-Announcements+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/Valley-Free-Radio-Announcements?hl=en
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Valley Free Radio Announcements" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to valley-free-radio-announcements+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[elliot tarry]

Hmmm....This is interesting because I was at the Board meeting last year with the Viridian rep. The word after that was that VFR Board had decided not to go with Viridian. I've been at other Board meetings since but no discussion of this. Where's this coming from Josh? Can you provide minutes from the Board meeting where this was discussed or was it just last month? I'm tending to hear Alan's concerns load and clear.
    If VFR will eventually be "offering" this to listeners, we better be very certain of what we are doing. 
 Elliot

---

From: agv...@comcast.net
Subject: [valleyfreeradio:7014] Re: [Valley-Free-Radio-Announcements:1190 Viridian Program
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 18:32:53 -0500
To: valleyfree...@gmail.com; valleyf...@googlegroups.com

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Valley Free Radio Discussion" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to valleyfreerad...@googlegroups.com.

[Alan Vogel]

One of your comments raises another issue, Elliot. "The Veridian rep"- is this a person who's essentially signing VFR up under him so he gets money for everyone the station signs up? I understand that pyramids can be on the up and up. But I personally have a significant issue with them for the reasons I've mentioned. And I'd hate for the radio station to be aligned and stained by something that may not be "appropriate". But I also acknowledge that I could be wrong. Nevertheless, should a person make money for signing the station on and then for everyone the station signs up? Seems to me, if it was a direct relationship with Veridian, and perhaps it was, that would be a point in it's favor.

Joshua, I'm not trying to be a contrarian and I recognize that if the station doesn't raise a certain amount of money it will disappear. But I can't sit by and not make the points I've made. I shouldn't need to present an alternative before criticizing what's on the table as you suggested. Though I wish I could. I do recall, for what it's worth, that the station did well with its last fund raising and on a personal note I'd be willing to come in and do a fundraising show as I always did if the board or programmers would want me to. 

Alan

[elliot tarry]

Yes Alan, the Rep would receive a cut from everyone who the station signs up. That was my understanding from a friend who was a Viridian rep. He was hoping to get the station(VFR) as a client but some guy beat him to it. (The guy at the Board mtg). This Viridian rep was also planning on being a VFR programmer. Is he?
Elliot
 

---

Subject: Re: [valleyfreeradio:7014] [Valley-Free-Radio-Announcements:1190 Viridian Program
From: agv...@comcast.net
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 16:56:23 -0500
CC: valleyfree...@gmail.com; valleyf...@googlegroups.com
To: zepe...@hotmail.com

[Joshua Braska]

Rather than continue with dialogue via email, I would like to set up a meeting to discuss all of this. I will invite the Virdian rep who we are working with to answer any questions about Viridian as best he can. We can bring a laptop to go online to do research. I would like to do this on an upcoming Thursday between 9 and 12 on a Thursday, but I am open to suggestions.

 

Joshua Braska

Go fast, take chances, and for Pete's sake, don't wear a helmet.

---

From: elliot tarry <zepe...@hotmail.com>
To: Alan Vogel <agv...@comcast.net>
Cc: Valley Free Radio <valleyfree...@gmail.com>; VFR List <valleyf...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 5:06 PM
Subject: [valley-free-radio-board-of-directors] RE: [valleyfreeradio:7014] [Valley-Free-Radio-Announcements:1190 Viridian Program

--
 
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Valley Free Radio Board of Directors" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to valley-free-radio-board-...@googlegroups.com.

[HighMusic]

Yo, Folks!

I've stayed out of this discussion since, although an original founding member, I'm no longer active with the station. But I was wondering WTF "Viridian" was, anyway. I've never heard of it. So I did some Googling. I discovered THIS:

http://www.empowernetwork.com/freevideoreveals3.php?id=mrhodes&viridian%20energy%20scam

"NO WUSSIES ALLOWED"???? Hmmmm...how many of our present or former programmers would this requirement disqualify?

It vibes to me like an evil and cynical scam. My intuition is that VFR should stay far, far away from it.

--Dana

--- On Sun, 2/17/13, elliot tarry <zepe...@hotmail.com> wrote:

[Alan Vogel]

I'm not against a meeting but meeting with the rep is like meeting with a car salesman to discuss whether it's a good idea to buy his car. I'm curious as to Elliot's concern that the Board did not authorize an agreement with Veridian. Also, I think the threshold question is whether the station should be involved with a pyramid. At the very least it's much an ethical and moral issue as the people which involve themselves and start these things are not the audience or people I can respect or ultimately trust.

So firstly, did the Board authorize or choose to walk away from Veridian? No rep required for that answer. Just the minutes.

Alan

[Joshua Braska]

First, it is VIRIDIAN not VERIDIAN. Big difference.

I don't remember what month the board approved the program. It was sometime between August and October. I didn't keep the minutes at that time, so I'm not sure who has them. Here is what I remember about the time line. In June or July, a Viridian rep came to a board meeting that I didn't attend. He presented to the board. The next month, Dale Johnston came and presented to the board. There were some questions about funding and tax issues so no decision was made. The next board meeting that we spoke about Viridian, we met at Packard's. After some discussion, the board decided to sign up for the program and get set up, then present it to the programmers and people involved with the station. If it works, we can then begin presenting it to listeners and on the station website as a fundraiser. I handled the paperwork and started the set up. Unfortunately, I got busy and didn't do anything with it until Dale Johnston came to the board meeting. I completed the set up, and that is when I sent out the announcement.

We already have the car, Alan, so it isn't like the rep will be selling us anything. Actually, he gave us the car because we haven't paid anything for it. He will only be there to answer questions about Viridian. I think it is better to have someone there who can answer questions about Viridian. Bring your laptop and double check his answers if you want.

I don't think you understand the difference between a pyramid scheme (which is illegal and unsustainable) and multi-level marketing (which is legal and sustainable as evidence by Tupperware, Avon, Mary Kay, and Nutrilite). You obviously do not know how the station makes money from this program because if you did, you wouldn't be calling it a pyramid. WE HAVE NOT PAID MONEY FOR THIS. A pyramid is when you only make money by signing people up rather than selling any actual product or service. Multi-level marketing pays commissions based on what is sold. If you get people to sign up, you get a commission from what they sell as well. I worked in insurance and that was how I got paid. I made a commission, my boss made a commission, and his boss made a commission. Is Mass Mutual a pyramid scheme too?

I love how everyone comes out of the woodwork with criticism and no new ideas for fundraising, but when there is call for help for an actual event or something that the station is involved in and needs support, no one is around, and everyone is silent. If you were really that interested in what is going on with the station, you would have read the minutes when this program was approved and said something then, not three months later. You would have come to the last fundraiser we did on January 26. You would be sharing the upcoming event on Feb. 23 with your friends on Facebook. The station would be full of people helping out during pledge drive. This Friday, there is a fundraiser committee meeting. How many of you are coming?

The link Dana sent was not a Viridian website. Here is a link to the official company's website.

http://www.viridian.com/

This is the company's mission statement.

Viridian Energy is a socially responsible energy company providing clean energy choices at competitive prices. Viridian was founded with the vision to empower our customers to make a difference in the environment and their personal lives simply by switching energy providers.

Energy deregulation allows you to select an alternative supplier while staying with your current utility. Viridian Energy provides our customers competitive prices for smarter energy choices.

 

Joshua Braska

Go fast, take chances, and for Pete's sake, don't wear a helmet.

---

From: Alan Vogel <agv...@comcast.net>
To: Joshua Braska <joshua...@yahoo.com>
Cc: "valley-free-radio-...@googlegroups.com" <valley-free-radio-...@googlegroups.com>; Valley Free Radio <valleyfree...@gmail.com>; VFR List <valleyf...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [valley-free-radio-board-of-directors] [valleyfreeradio:7014] [Valley-Free-Radio-Announcements:1190 Viridian Program

[Doug Reuter]

I've  been quiet since I'm no longer officially on the board. I can't search the minutes since I'm not at home. Board approval was given for this. Josh acted upon the board's decision.

[elliot tarry]

Here's what was passed by the board in Aug 2012 according to what Johanna sent:
 
 MOTION 2 (JB raises): To sign up for those programmers within station area, do person-to-person marketing within station community (programmers, volunteers and other direct participants in VFR). Evaluation will follow next month and if results are favorable, VFR will seek to extend marketing to wider community pending legal advice on tax implications

DISCUSSION: JB: Research showed mixed reviews for Veridian's model of contracting promoters, previous Veridian clients expressed dissatisfaction about returns, which require threshold that may take several months to achieve.
NR: This will impact the motion, as it could likely take more than one month.
SWW: Suggest an amendment motion to reevaluate if and when VFR reaches threshold of returns.
NR: We should still revisit with Veridian reps.

VOTE ON MOTION 2: Motion passes 4-1, ST abstains (ST cites extra strain on human resources of the station and tax implications as cause for abstention).

And Josh, I appreciate your efforts and work BUT Insurance companies are criminal in my book and VFR represents the opposition to corporate financing. So there are ethical considerations that eventually would involve PR difficulties. (in other words hypocrisy)
 
Elliot

 

---

Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:54:36 -0500
Subject: Re: [valley-free-radio-board-of-directors] [valleyfreeradio:7026] [Valley-Free-Radio-Announcements:1190 Viridian Program
From: geeki...@gmail.com
To: joshua...@yahoo.com
CC: valley-free-radio-...@googlegroups.com; valleyf...@googlegroups.com; valleyfree...@gmail.com

[Alan Vogel]

Joshua- Seeing as you are correcting my spelling I can tell that you're quite angry. And I understand the frustration with trying to accomplish something in good faith and then having people coming out of the woodwork shooting holes into the plan. But us out of the woodwork folks are also in good faith.

I will say that Insurance companies and Pyramid- or multi -level marketing- companies are not the same. You sell a policy and your general makes money- but he has overhead  and risk. But your insured doesn't then sell a policy and you make money from his sale. So while I have no significant problem and some high regard for certain mutual (insured owned) insurance companies, as an attorney I have a fairly negative opinion of public insurance companies. That, of course, is beside the point. 

I noticed that Jackie brought up the mission statement. Early on the mission statement was interpreted to a far left position. Now we seem to be in the Reagan VFR years, which, in my opinion really does not square with the station ethos. The talk of VFR potentially going profit- non profit in order to allow it to make a lot of cash is amusing when placed aside VFR 2005.

I'm not currently active with the station so perhaps I should step aside and allow this to play out. But I was active from October 2004 until some time last year, so I feel a part of the station.

Alan

[Joshua Braska]

I was correcting spelling because everyone seems to be spelling it wrong, and if you going to search for something, it helps to be searching for the right thing as evidence by what Dana turned up.

These are not the "Reagan" years of VFR unless we start wracking up a lot of debt which we haven't done yet. The reason this is becoming an issue or should be an issue is because the station is running out of money. If we are forced to move because the FCC sells, then that would be it. No more VFR. I appreciate the far left position as much as the next hippy, but wake up people.We will not be changing our non-profit status, but non profit doesn't mean no profit. We don't have a rainy day fund. We don't have a "new computer" fund. We can't even afford to create a job for someone and contribute to the community we claim to support. How does that serve the community? 

Alan, the people that are no longer involved with the station are who we need to be reaching and engaging. It is unfortunate it took something like this to get people to take notice, but I hope that this gets people interested in coming back.

Elliot, Insurance might be criminal in your book, but your book hasn't been published yet and isn't the law. While you might be against any and all corporations for whatever reason, insurance and Viridian are both legal. I don't see anywhere in the mission statement of VFR that we are anti-corporation. While your show might represent anti-corporate views, those are not the views of the station as a whole. What is basically happening is you are dismissing this idea because it is too corporate for you. Should we shut off our phone and internet because Comcast is a corporation and by using their services, we are aligning ourselves with them? Should we get rid of all the Windows software at the station because Microsoft is the biggest corporation in the world and we would be supporting them through use of their product? Take a look at Viridian's mission statement about environmental sustainability and renewable energy. Look at their rain forest protection and replacement program. No one has asked how the station makes money from this because you are so concerned about the corporate aspect of it and whether or not this is a scam that you don't even care about what it will actually do for the station. 

This is all the time I am going to spend on this. I will set up a meeting with Dale Johnston to answer questions.

 

Joshua Braska

Go fast, take chances, and for Pete's sake, don't wear a helmet.

---

From: Alan Vogel <agv...@comcast.net>

To: elliot tarry <zepe...@hotmail.com>
Cc: geeki...@gmail.com; Joshua VFR-Board Brashka <joshua...@yahoo.com>; valley-free-radio-...@googlegroups.com; VFR List <valleyf...@googlegroups.com>; Valley Free Radio <valleyfree...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: [valley-free-radio-board-of-directors] [valleyfreeradio:7027] [Valley-Free-Radio-Announcements:1190 Viridian Program

[elliot tarry]

With all due respect Joshua....Independent Media MEANS indepentant from CORPORATIONS. VFR is independent media.
OK?
Elliot
 

---

Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 10:56:08 -0800
From: joshua...@yahoo.com

Subject: Re: [valley-free-radio-board-of-directors] [valleyfreeradio:7027] [Valley-Free-Radio-Announcements:1190 Viridian Program

To: agv...@comcast.net; zepe...@hotmail.com
CC: geeki...@gmail.com; valley-free-radio-...@googlegroups.com; valleyf...@googlegroups.com; valleyfree...@gmail.com

[Doug Reuter]

Doesn't that mean "not controlled/owned by"? Because complete independence would eliminate our fundraising (PayPal), a big percentage of our music, and all the computers that run our station

[Alan Vogel]

www.viridian.com/valleyfreeradio 

I don't know who set up this link, but sure seems like it's a done deal to me. Like Shea  Stadium (named after the man who made the stadium possible), now called Citi Field-  after that infamous bank, but hey, they get 20 million a year. That's what the above feels like to me. 

Job creators. How I hate that term. VFR was never meant to be a job creator. A palatable term totally inclusive of the good and the exploitive, coined by the right, that's entered and changed the focus of our entire culture.  Eric Cantor would be proud.

Joshua- you make some fair points, but the above link lays waste to any further comment. 

 

On Feb 18, 2013, at 2:28 PM, Joshua Braska <joshua...@yahoo.com> wrote:

www.viridian.com/valleyfreeradio and do some research. 

 

[Alan Vogel]

And the video on the link explicitly explains and endorses the way YOU can make money, even more when you sign up others to sign up others. This is what VFR stands for?

[Stefan Ward-Wheten]

I understand some of the concerns voiced in this thread about the for-profit nature of Viridian Energy and the veracity of their claims. Similar ones were raised when the idea was introduced last year, which was the reason for my amendment to the original motion for a reevaluation if/when VFR began to see a return on this investment. We haven't reached that point yet, but so far I haven't had any indication to believe that this company is anything other than what it claims to be.

Certainly, as an independent community radio station our focus should be on building relationships other local and independent businesses. We're already doing that through our underwriting campaign and cross-promotional agreements. The Veridian venture is intended to be a supplement to these efforts, not the focus, and our ability to promote the service is limited as it is by FCC regulations on advertising through LP-FM radio as it is, so our partnership with them will be small-scale by nature.

While the profit motive might seem unsavory, the fact is that Viridian is helping people to buy and use green energy affordably. That in and of itself is a public benefit and one that fits into our mandate. Alan, the link to their website that you posted puts that aspect front and center.

Exercising reasonable caution and prudence when signing VFR up for something is an intelligent way to go about it, but so far a lot of the objections I'm hearing are based on a political ideology of blanket anti-corporatism (an ethos that I'm strongly sympathetic towards) rather than concrete evidence. There's no reason why a side partnership with a green energy business would endanger the principles on which this station was founded. Look at it this way: Providing VFR with a healthy and sustainable revenue stream is the most important thing that we can be doing to ensure that the resources we provide to the community reach those who desire to use them. This is a step in that direction. One day, we'll be popular enough and financially stable enough to pick and choose our sponsors and our partnerships to our exact preferences. That day has not yet come, though, and for the time being, we could do a lot worse than Viridian.

-Stefan

[Alan Vogel]

"You hate that the station needs a full time paid employee? You hate that giving someone a job will help the station and the person we employ? Wouldn't it be great if the station had enough money to where we didn't have to do a pledge drive and beg our listeners to fund us for another year? Wouldn't it be great if all those big bad corporations were funding our anti-corporate message? Wouldn't it be awesome if the next time Paki gets arrested, we could pay to bail her out? Wouldn't it be awesome if we could fund community projects that actually help people and make the positive impacts we all want?"

Joshua, you totally missed my point and that , I suppose, is the point. 

You are scared of the "corporate" label, but you don't know anything about how the program works, nor have you asked because you aren't interested. 

Scared? Interesting word. And I know exactly how the program and those like it work and studied the website. Please don't tell me I need to speak to a salesman to understand. Perhaps that's the difference between insurance salesmen and attorneys. You clearly drank the Kool-Aid, kiddo

We've been raising money through on-air fundraising, and booths at Farmer's Markets and underwriting. If we can't sustain ourselves, that is a shame. But to imply that raising money is raising money is raising money is wrong. There have always been parameters. If you feel that this is appropriate, fine. I'm not name calling. I'm voicing my opinion.But I do hope you're not personally involved as an associate with Viridian as you may find yourself with a conflict of interest if you also sit on the Board.  I'm assuming you're not. And I'd hate to see VFR disappear, but again, there are limits. And obviously you don't need my permission. And obviously my opinion is that of one person, to which I'm entitled. 

You are either part of the problem, or part of the solution

Being a 60's person, I could riff on this for pages, as the irony here is hilarious.

18, 2013, at 3:39 PM, Joshua Braska <joshua...@yahoo.com> wrote:

It is a done deal, Alan. We have already been over that. The board approved it, and we are moving forward with or without your approval that we really don't need anyway.

You hate that the station needs a full time paid employee? You hate that giving someone a job will help the station and the person we employ? Wouldn't it be great if the station had enough money to where we didn't have to do a pledge drive and beg our listeners to fund us for another year? Wouldn't it be great if all those big bad corporations were funding our anti-corporate message? Wouldn't it be awesome if the next time Paki gets arrested, we could pay to bail her out? Wouldn't it be awesome if we could fund community projects that actually help people and make the positive impacts we all want?

We aren't going to change our name to Viridian Free Radio. The website is a preset website set up for every associate. I think you are being paranoid and contrary for no real reason.

You are either part of the problem, or part of the solution. You keep criticizing but not offering alternatives. You are scared of the "corporate" label, but you don't know anything about how the program works, nor have you asked because you aren't interested. I've offered to set up a meeting with the Viridian rep, but you would rather send emails and criticize than actually show a real interest and get real information about it before drawing conclusions. You think that the station will run on magic and good feelings? If the building gets sold and we have to move, that is the end of VFR. We don't have the $10K to fund a move. If we stay, we don't the $250K to buy the building, and we don't have the $1.3 million dollars necessary to get the building up to code. You have drawn your own conclusions so when VFR closes it's doors, you can feel good about all you have done to help. Keep up the good work.

Please tell me what VFR stands for and how raising money to sustain the station is contrary to our mission.

 

Joshua Braska

Go fast, take chances, and for Pete's sake, don't wear a helmet.

---

From: Alan Vogel <agv...@comcast.net>

To: Joshua Braska <joshua...@yahoo.com>; vfr discuss <valleyf...@googlegroups.com>; Valley Free Radio Board of Directors <bo...@valleyfreeradio.org>
Cc: Doug Reuter <geeki...@gmail.com>; Elliot Terry <zepe...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: [valley-free-radio-board-of-directors] [valleyfreeradio:7033] [Valley-Free-Radio-Announcements:1190 Viridian Program

[Stephen Truempy]

Is it, at all true that Halliburton  owns Viridian ? Anyone up for a beer ? Lots of folks on here, I dont know. Lets get together and take this station somewhere

https://www.facebook.com/events/484892198218730

Trumpy

856-889-0480

The Quiz SHow (C0-Host) thursday 6a-9am

THe Trumpy SHow -thursday 7p-9p

On Friday, February 15, 2013 6:32:53 PM UTC-5, alan vogel wrote:

Alan

Valley-Free-Radio-Announcements+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/Valley-Free-Radio-Announcements?hl=en
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Valley Free Radio Announcements" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to valley-free-radio-announcements+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Alan Vogel]

Stefan- Thank you. Your thoughts are level headed and well voiced.  I'm not overly anti-corporate, and I have no issue with the profit motive, but I do have a significant problem with pyramid or multi-level marketing schemes as, in fact, they are get rich quick ventures that are all about the profit, the product being a beard, so to speak.. And mine is a voice of one. I've made my point of view clear- probably ad nauseum. What will be will be.

Alan

[elliot tarry]

This ranting is out of hand Josh. I'm on the fundraising committee and there are several plans in the works that could provide enough money to hire someone. For instance the Indiegogo video. Could bring in $thousands  if promoted. And The Florence Savings Bank yearly giveaway of thousands of $$$. And Underwriting. Here's a thought: Why doesn't Viridian underwrite with us instead. 
    VFR is a 501C3, NON-PROFIT. NOT a NOT-FOR-PROFIT. A non-profit cannot be a business and sell for a corporation and still maintain the non-profit tax status. A not-for-profit can. Is this in dispute
Elliot
 

---

Subject: Re: [valley-free-radio-board-of-directors] [valleyfreeradio:7035] [Valley-Free-Radio-Announcements:1190 Viridian Program
From: agv...@comcast.net
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 16:19:36 -0500
CC: geeki...@gmail.com; zepe...@hotmail.com
To: joshua...@yahoo.com; valleyf...@googlegroups.com

"You hate that the station needs a full time paid employee? You hate that giving someone a job will help the station and the person we employ? Wouldn't it be great if the station had enough money to where we didn't have to do a pledge drive and beg our listeners to fund us for another year? Wouldn't it be great if all those big bad corporations were funding our anti-corporate message? Wouldn't it be awesome if the next time Paki gets arrested, we could pay to bail her out? Wouldn't it be awesome if we could fund community projects that actually help people and make the positive impacts we all want?"

Joshua, you totally missed my point and that , I suppose, is the point. 

You are scared of the "corporate" label, but you don't know anything about how the program works, nor have you asked because you aren't interested. 

Scared? Interesting word. And I know exactly how the program and those like it work and studied the website. Please don't tell me I need to speak to a salesman to understand. Perhaps that's the difference between insurance salesmen and attorneys. You clearly drank the Kool-Aid, ki

[elliot tarry]

No Doug. "Independent" also means free from corporate control though financial support. PBS is often called  "Petrolium Broadcasting System" to denote the corporate control of its content.
Elliot
 

---

Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 14:06:22 -0500
Subject: RE: [valley-free-radio-board-of-directors] [valleyfreeradio:7031] [Valley-Free-Radio-Announcements:1190 Viridian Program
From: geeki...@gmail.com
To: zepe...@hotmail.com
CC: valleyf...@googlegroups.com; agv...@comcast.net; valley-free-radio-...@googlegroups.com; joshua...@yahoo.com; valleyfree...@gmail.com

[Doug Reuter]

So again, is the issue the corporate control? Or that Josh supposedly went ahead without board approval? 

Because it was approved by the board and Josh went ahead with it. He is receiving this criticism since he was the messenger.  

[elliot tarry]

While the profit motive might seem unsavory, the fact is that Viridian is helping people to buy and use green energy affordably. 
 

Stephan, we do not know that Viridian is doing what you say: helping people buy green energy. The devil is in the details. Fracking is not "green". Nuclear is not "Green". Cutting down forests in Massachusetts and burning the chips in canada for electricity while planting a few trees elsewhere is not "Green". Where does Viridian get its electricity?
 
You know people are working long and hard to find ways to provide affordable, sustainable, non-polluting sources of electric power and no-one is heaping profits. How does Viridian's CEO get to buy a $1.7Million home?
Unsavory indeed.
Elliot

 

---

Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:59:57 -0500
Subject: Re: [valley-free-radio-board-of-directors] [valleyfreeradio:7034] [Valley-Free-Radio-Announcements:1190 Viridian Program
From: swardw...@gmail.com
To: agv...@comcast.net
CC: joshua...@yahoo.com; valleyf...@googlegroups.com; bo...@valleyfreeradio.org; geeki...@gmail.com; zepe...@hotmail.com

[Steve Truempy]

I admire all these opinions ,since I don't really have one.  I have been with VFR since Sept, and have not seen this much energy on anything . This is exciting . But please take the same energy to promote the station and our show Sat. As well as other issues for VFR. How many stickers were given away today? That is what I'm worried about.

Trumpy

Sent from my iPhone

[elliot tarry]

The issue is the legal and ethical fallout from a non-profit 501C3 hawking business for a 'for-profit' corp. and gaining profit from that. The Board's approval was for a trial offer to programmers and a review. Also some on the Board asked for a legal opinion before proceeding.
Josh is hardly proceeding in the spirit of the Board's vote or the spirit of cautious investigation. 
Elliot

---

Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:36:49 -0500
Subject: RE: [valley-free-radio-board-of-directors] [valleyfreeradio:7040] [Valley-Free-Radio-Announcements:1190 Viridian Program
From: geeki...@gmail.com
To: zepe...@hotmail.com
CC: agv...@comcast.net; valleyf...@googlegroups.com; joshua...@yahoo.com; valley-free-radio-...@googlegroups.com; valleyfree...@gmail.com

[Doug Reuter]

The next board meeting is Thursday March 7 if anyone wants to go  discuss this.

[HighMusic]

My own suggestion is that the vehemence of the response to this proposal warrants putting the question of "Going Viridian" to at least an ADVISORY VOTE of everyone who is subscribed to the VFR listserve. While this vote might not be constitutionally binding, it would at least advise the Board about the consensus of an actively-engaged  VFR community concerning our proposed alliance with the Viridian Pyramidians. Comments on this suggestion? --- On Mon, 2/18/13, Alan Vogel <agv...@comcast.net> wrote:

[Joshua Braska]

All things considered, this isn't an overwhelming response. There have only been four people responding that aren't board members. None of the programmers have been informed of what the Viridian program is or how it works. There will be nothing done by email. If you want to be involved in the discussion, come to the board meeting. Otherwise, you are not engaged and don't get a vote. If you want to come to Paradiso on Friday to talk about it, I would love to hear your alternative fundraising ideas.

Sent from my AyePhone.

[Steve Truempy]

Comments and Suggestions , Take this ACTIVELY ENGAGED group and do something. Hand out brochures give out stickers. Share Facebook posts come to meetings, do a live show. Get underwriting. Tell a friend and tell them again. I have been with the station since late Aug and have not seen this passion for anything. Hope to see all the actively engaged people fri and sat. Lets do something great !!!

trumpy

[rja]

Dear VFR Constituency,

I have not responded to this heated thread for various reasons and although I can understand different opinions being expressed, I find this response below to be very problematic.

VFR cannot operate under certain assumptions about what it means to participate, to close down lines of communication, and to essentially give ultimatums. No one person should be allowed to make such unilateral decisions about what it means to participate and when a member's vote counts.

I understand that this has become a heated conversation. I understand that people might not be comfortable expressing their views as I have been up to now. Unfortunately, the response below does not help foster critical discourse but rather shuts it down.

Sincerely,

Robin

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Valley Free Radio Discussion" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to valleyfreerad...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
 
 

--

Robin Kwon Soo Han (formally Robin Anderson)

Dept. of Communication, PhD Candidate
Graduate Student Senate (GSS): Treasurer

Co-Producer: Farm-to-Fork on Valley Free Radio

Graduate Student Senate

919 Campus Center

UMASS-Amherst
1 Campus Center Way
Amherst, MA 01003-9243

[agv...@comcast.net]

the question of "Going Viridian" to at least an ADVISORY VOTE of everyone who is subscribed to the VFR list-serve. While this vote might not be constitutionally binding, it would at least advise the Board

I think Dana's idea is a fine one. I also beleive that more folks read the list then post, so it's unlikely it would only be 4 people involved. 

Again, however, our affiliation with Viridian is not based upon a lack of an alternative but on it's own merits. 

Joshua, I want to ask you, and I do not mean there is anything wrong with this, but are you (or anyone at VFR) affiliated or a Veridian associate aside from list-serveVFR? You have every right to be, but it could color your thinking, or as we in the law say, create a conflict of interest or at least the appearance of impropriety as I believe you also sit on the Board at VFR. 

Alan

[Joshua Braska]

This is my last email on this. If you want to continue the discussion, come to the board meeting as this will be on the agenda. 

No, I am not a Viridian associate (yes, spelling counts). Don Freeman of the World Peace Radio Hour is a Viridian associate but not the associate that signed us up. Yes, I am the Co-Chair of the board. There will be no motion on this until the board meeting so non-board members can vote for whatever they want. There will be no official action taken until the board meeting.

Do you know what the merits of the Viridian program are and how it works? Come to the board meeting for the discussion.

Instead of wasting all this time sending emails complaining that do nothing to help the station, how about you send out some emails promoting our Indie Gogo campaign or inviting people to the fundraiser on Saturday. We have three bands playing and need a lot of help setting up and breaking down. I will be in Northampton this afternoon passing out flyers and putting up posters. Let me know if you want to come help. I would be glad to meet you somewhere. 

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/319404/emal/2193363

 

See you March 7 6:00 pm at the Media Education Foundation.

Joshua Braska

You are either part of the solution or part of the problem.

Go fast, take chances, and for Pete's sake, don't wear a helmet.

---

From: "agv...@comcast.net" <agv...@comcast.net>
To: rja <rjan...@gmail.com>
Cc: Joshua Braska <joshua...@yahoo.com>; "valley-free-radio-...@googlegroups.com" <valley-free-radio-...@googlegroups.com>; Valley Free Radio <valleyfree...@gmail.com>; VFR List <valleyf...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: [valleyfreeradio:7046] Re: [valley-free-radio-board-of-directors] Re: Valley-Free-Radio-Announcements:1190 Viridian Program

[elliot tarry]

You know Josh, if you had come to one of the fundraising meetings you might have heard some alternative funding ideas. There should be a report at the next Board meeting. But here's a sample. Shuball is coordinating a list of all potential underwriters and the fundraising meeting advised strongly that you coordinate with him. Also the FSB fund for next year could net thousands if we promote it now. And the Indiegogo video could also net thousands if promoted well. Sooo as a last resort - (default if we're going under) - there's NCTV.
Elliot
 

---

CC: agv...@comcast.net; valley-free-radio-...@googlegroups.com; valleyfree...@gmail.com; valleyf...@googlegroups.com
From: joshua...@yahoo.com
Subject: [valleyfreeradio:7046] Re: [valley-free-radio-board-of-directors] Re: Valley-Free-Radio-Announcements:1190 Viridian Program
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 22:58:26 -0500
To: valley-free-radio-...@googlegroups.com

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Valley Free Radio Discussion" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to valleyfreerad...@googlegroups.com.

[Steve Truempy]

over the top

[Lila Wolan]

I have not much about Veridian until now.  But I will like Joshua to take two steps back and let the members stew on this awhile.  I hate contracts, but we must read the"fine print".

And speaking of Joshua, "Hey!  Are you booking at Flywheel or what?!!!   What am I?  Chop liver?!!!"

 

 

Lila Wolan-Jedziniak President at Flywheel, Easthampton MA
DJ VIKING WOMAN on WTCC 90.7 fm (2nd and 4th Saturdays from 8 to 10 p.m.)

DJ ALDURU on WXOJ 103.3fm: Thursday nights from 9 to 11 pm

From: Joshua Braska <joshua...@yahoo.com>
To: "agv...@comcast.net" <agv...@comcast.net>; rja <rjan...@gmail.com>
Cc: "valley-free-radio-...@googlegroups.com" <valley-free-radio-...@googlegroups.com>; Valley Free Radio <valleyfree...@gmail.com>; VFR List <valleyf...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: [valleyfreeradio:7050] Re: [valley-free-radio-board-of-directors] Re: Valley-Free-Radio-Announcements:1190 Viridian Program

This is my last email on this. If you want to continue the discussion, come to the board meeting as this will be on the agenda. 

No, I am not a Viridian associate (yes, spelling counts). Don Freeman of the World Peace Radio Hour is a Viridian associate but not the associate that signed us up. Yes, I am the Co-Chair of the board. There will be no motion on this until the board meeting so non-board members can vote for whatever they want. There will be no official action taken until the board meeting.

Do you know what the merits of the Viridian program are and how it works? Come to the board meeting for the discussion.

Instead of wasting all this time sending emails complaining that do nothing to help the station, how about you send out some emails promoting our Indie Gogo campaign or inviting people to the fundraiser on Saturday. We have three bands playing and need a lot of help setting up and breaking down. I will be in Northampton this afternoon passing out flyers and putting up posters. Let me know if you want to come help. I would be glad to meet you somewhere. 

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/319404/emal/2193363

 

See you March 7 6:00 pm at the Media Education Foundation.

Joshua Braska

You are either part of the solution or part of the problem.

Go fast, take chances, and for Pete's sake, don't wear a helmet.

Alan

From: elliot tarry <zepe...@hotmail.com> To: Alan Vogel <agv...@comcast.net> Cc: Valley Free Radio <valleyfree...@gmail.com>; VFR List <valleyf...@googlegroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 5:06 PM Subject: [valley-free-radio-board-of-directors] RE: [valleyfreeradio:7014] [Valley-Free-Radio-Announcements:1190 Viridian Program

Yes Alan, the Rep would receive a cut from everyone who the station signs up. That was my understanding from a friend who was a Viridian rep. He was hoping to get the station(VFR) as a client but some guy beat him to it. (The guy at the Board mtg). This Viridian rep was also planning on being a VFR programmer. Is he? Elliot

Subject: Re: [valleyfreeradio:7014] [Valley-Free-Radio-Announcements:1190 Viridian ProgramFrom: agv...@comcast.netDate: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 16:56:23 -0500 CC: valleyfree...@gmail.com; valleyf...@googlegroups.com To: zepe...@hotmail.comOne of your comments raises another issue, Elliot. "The Veridian rep"- is this a person who's essentially signing VFR up under him so he gets money for everyone the station signs up? I understand that pyramids can be on the up and up. But I personally have a significant issue with them for the reasons I've mentioned. And I'd hate for the radio station to be aligned and stained by something that may not be "appropriate". But I also acknowledge that I could be wrong. Nevertheless, should a person make money for signing the station on and then for everyone the station signs up? Seems to me, if it was a direct relationship with Veridian, and perhaps it was, that would be a point in it's favor.

Joshua, I'm not trying to be a contrarian and I recognize that if the station doesn't raise a certain amount of money it will disappear. But I can't sit by and not make the points I've made. I shouldn't need to present an alternative before criticizing what's on the table as you suggested. Though I wish I could. I do recall, for what it's worth, that the station did well with its last fund raising and on a personal note I'd be willing to come in and do a fundraising show as I always did if the board or programmers would want me to.

Alan

On Feb 17, 2013, at 4:23 PM, elliot tarry <zepe...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hmmm....This is interesting because I was at the Board meeting last year with the Viridian rep. The word after that was that VFR Board had decided not to go with Viridian. I've been at other Board meetings since but no discussion of this. Where's this coming from Josh? Can you provide minutes from the Board meeting where this was discussed or was it just last month? I'm tending to hear Alan's concerns load and clear.     If VFR will eventually be "offering" this to listeners, we better be very certain of what we are doing.   Elliot

From: agv...@comcast.netSubject: [valleyfreeradio:7014] Re: [Valley-Free-Radio-Announcements:1190 Viridian Program Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 18:32:53 -0500To: valleyfree...@gmail.com; valleyf...@googlegroups.com A pyramid however is a pyramid and it is not the same as a company that simply sells a service for a profit. In most cases the money is in the pyramid not the product.  I would look long and hard at this as a revenue source. The word sustainability is not a substitute for ethical.

--  

-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Valley Free Radio Discussion" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mailto:valleyfreeradio%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.    

--

Robin Kwon Soo Han (formally Robin Anderson)

Dept. of Communication, PhD CandidateGraduate Student Senate (GSS): Treasurer

Co-Producer: Farm-to-Fork on Valley Free Radio

Graduate Student Senate

919 Campus Center

UMASS-Amherst1 Campus Center WayAmherst, MA 01003-9243

-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Valley Free Radio Discussion" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to valleyfreerad...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.