Introducing myself

[Dave Croucher]

Hi fellow humans.

I have joined this group as I am interested in the debate on vaccines. I tend to embrace science as without it my son would never have been resuscitated at birth, would never have had 2 open heart operations. My son also has Neutrophil immunodeficiency syndrome due to his Noonan Syndrome. This is very real for me and not some game to challenge authority and be controversial.

I look forward to reading and participating in educated and intelligent discussions regarding the pros and cons of vaccines (I'm not claiming they are 100% safe, but they're surely better than the 40% mortality that diphtheria had.

Cheers,
Dave (father of a vaccinated child)

[punter]

Welcome Dave, I like science too. But I consider science to be about explaining stuff and replicability and falsifiability as opposed to obeying the authorities or risk being labelled a holocaust denier or flat earther or faked moon landing believer etc.

 

"I'm not claiming they are 100% safe, but they're surely better than the 40% mortality that diphtheria had."

 

That 40 per cent figure is meaningless. Nobody knows how many people had diphtheria in 1900 or 1800 or today so it is impossible to ascribe a mortality figure to it.

 

In 1900 for example, for every sore throat that saw a doctor there might have been 10 or 50 or 1000 that never bothered and just got better in a matter of days without drugs or even seeing a physician. And even if they did see the doctor the chance said doctor would bother notifying the authorities was minimal. It is probably reasonable to think that individual doctors - assuming they were the sort to ever bother to notify of a condition - would only do so if it was serious (or perhaps in the middle of a supposed epidemic).

 

So that mortality figure of 40 per cent is nonsense. It is way lower, it could be 0.1 per cent for all we know, or lower.

 

The same holds true for mortality rates of all conditions which are often temporary - such as smallpox or pertussis or measles. Without incidence data - which we simply don't have - we have no way of knowing the likelihood of dying from the disease or how many people had it and how many people have it.

 

We do, however, know that according to the government mortality data that deaths ascribed to these diseases had fallen massively (in some cases by over 99 per cent) before their respective vaccines came along. In addition, diseases which saw no widely used vaccine (such as scarlet fever) also saw their mortality rates plummet in the same fashion. Clearly whatever vaccines did, it certainly wasn't significant in terms of saving lives.

There is a plethora of discussion about this on this board but www.childhealthsafety.com/graphs has this data for you.

 

Some of the defenders of vaccines here have claimed that the lower mortality rates before vaccines (which they don't dispute) are due to the introduction of antibiotics. There are several problems with this - such as timing of their regular usage and the fact that deaths due to measles (which is supposedly a viral condition and can't be treated with antibiotics) had fallen by more than anything else, but even if it held water it would still show that vaccines are not what saved us.

 

 

So we have no useful data for this.

[Greg Beattie]

Hi Dave

I trust you've found the various conversations that have been taking place here. Feel free to add your comments to any of them.

I tend to embrace science too, and I think you'll find most people here tend the same (or at least claim to).  :-)

Greg

[Meryl Dorey]

Hi Dave and welcome,

I’m sorry to hear that your son is so ill but I do have to take issue with your contention that this is a game or just a challenge to authority for those of us who have chosen not to vaccinate. My eldest son was injured by vaccines. Had that not happened, I most likely never would have even thought to question them Like many parents, my own family’s experience set my husband and I on a search which has lasted for nearly 25 years. I also embrace science and have a strong background in biology which has helped me in my research.

Over the years, I have spoken with thousands of parents and health professionals who have chosen not to vaccinate. I can honestly say that not one of them considers their health decisions to be anything but a serious personal choice that they have made with a great deal of research and thought on their parts. Most of them have sought out the advice of both medical professionals and natural therapists in addition to reading an incredible amount of peer-reviewed literature.

So though we have arrived at different locations along our journey, we all start from the same place - being driven by love for our children and concern for their wellbeing.

We have a lot to share with each other and I’m very glad you’re here to talk about these issues with us.

Kind regardes,

Meryl

Mother of 4 children - one of whom is vaccine-injured.

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