Virginia is the worst state I've lived in.
Icy Manipulator
Virginia is the worst state I've lived in, I spent almost a decade there. I
also lived in New York, Colorado, Califronia, Washington. My favorite state
is Colorado, 300 sunny days per year, no humidity, the sky is almost always
clear, lots of high tech jobs, wonderful.
I lived both in Northern part of the state (Front Royal, about 60 miles West
of DC) and in Southwestern part of the state (Blacksburg)... and I just hated
everything about it. For one thing, I could not find employment there during
summers when I was not in school since thousands of people were also competing
for the same shitty $5.25/hour jobs. And I certainly could not find employment
in my line of work. The few computer related jobs that I have seen in bigger
cities like Roanoke or Richmond are so ridiculosly below the going rates it is
not even funny. For instance, a junior programmer would get about $25K per
year in Roanoke while in other, decent states that would be more like 45K or
higher. (Actually, that $25K/year figure is unrealistic to begin with since
there are no such jobs in Roanoke). And the mid-level to senior-level IT
positions show an absolutely gigantic difference of almost orders of
magnitude. I had no idea until I got out and saw the real world. It just does
not pay well and in fact there are no high-tech jobs anywhere but in Reston/
Fairfax regions that are really expensive -- I have not lived there.
And then the people. I lived in Front Royal since 80's, then moved South. The
predominant type of person is the redneck in both regions. Relatively
uneducated, uninteresting, boring, petty rednecks that drive 70's beaters.
Unsophisticated and crude. In B-burg, there were two types of people, arrogant
elitist out of state (i.e. Maryland) transplants - ivory type idealists and
the local people. I've never seen so many liberal loonies and
pseudo-intellectuals as in Blacksburg (VT) and I've lived all over the
country. The seemed to support every major leftist hallucination one could
think of, animal rights, this diversity shit, "Goddess" bumper stickers,
"world peace", etc. The worthless gen-X crowd doesn't know anything about
anything. You step away a bit from the university and you are suddenly in the
redneck area that are nothing like the college ivory tower people. You try to
talk to them about some intelligent abstract concept besides best sports team
and beer and chevy pick up trucks and you get this strangely silent look, not
even a flicker of understanding in their eyes, no change of expression,
nothing.
Their horrible, rusted out 70's beaters and their terrible crude humor. And
the religious fascination with sports. Made me ill.
And the redneck tattoos.
And the 4 cars sitting in the yard with only one running. (Drive around
C-burg enough and you will see that)
And the redneck accent.
Goddamn rednecks. No matter where you go, they are basically the same.
Go to any Virginia Walmart and you will see that the average person there just
doesn't look like he is working on a degree in Math.
Strangely enough, when I was in college, I did not have any friends from
college, I hang out with enlightened locals and actually got along fine with
them and had fun. That's rather amusing since I grew up in another culture.
They made more sense to me than leftists lunatics. Although the rednecks
tended to be Republican, and after I briefly flirted with the Republican
party, I became a life-long libertarian, a concept even most enlightened
rednecks could not grasp. That's why I stopped talking even to them.
Blacksburg was composed of the university world and the redneck world,
probably more university, while Christiansburg was almost entirely redneck...
I was repulsed by the crudeness of both. I am really glad I got out of there,
it combined the worst of two worlds. The contrast between the two was amazing.
And the weather.
Oh, the damn weather. I patiently endured it for a long decade. Terrible,
uncomfortable, summers, high humidity, unbearably hot to be outside.
Especially in NOVA. I also lived near Richmond and it generally sucks during
summer. You got to have AC in your house and in your car or you will fry and
suffocate. During summers, it just wasn't fun to be outside. In fact, even at
night. It was horribly humid even at night. I've never seen that
elsewhere. Having moved out where the climate is very different, I am actually
even more amazed, I have a difficult time grasping that. But all I can say is
that I remember it as factually true, and several other people confirmed that
fact. Just recently I heard that the temperature hit 100+F.. Am I glad to be
out of there.
And the winters. The terrible, cold winters. I would at least like some real
snow.. but no. The snow falls for maybe 3 days and then it all melts down and
that's all. NOVA was a lot more snowier than Souther VA but even there it
didn't stay very long. I hated the winters there.
And the ticks. The goddamn disguising annoying ticks. I have never seen so
many ticks elsewhere. I have actually seen people get bitten by ticks and
caught quite a few on myself - probably a dozen or more, but none had actually
bitten me. Gee, what a relief that is. That repulses me to the highest degree
and probably a good enough reason in itself to move elsewhere from that damn
tick-infested state.
And the jobs.
That was the final straw. The Virginia economy sucks when it comes to high
tech IT positions and not Walmart greeter or fast-food jobs. If you actually
want to make more than $12/hour, God forbid, good luck looking for something
in gold old Virginia. You won't find it, unless you are talking about the
extremely expensive and stressed-out Alexandria/Fairfax/Reston/etc region that
is a part of a different universe altogether and is more apt to be a part of
Maryland or something. Try 1 bedroom apartments for $1200. I was looking for
a job in Virginia and I could never find one. I actually ended up working at
shitty fast-food places when I was there simply because I could not find
anything better, and I had problems getting even that. Virginia Employment
Comission or whatever it is called was utterly useless. God am I glad I got
out and increased my salary by an order of a magnitude. Had I stayed, I would
have moved up to $8.60/hour, or even $10. Nah.
Poverty and college are synonymous for most people, it seems and I wasn't an
exception. Even with that aside, it is a really poor state, probably above
Mississippi and below Georgia.
And the traffic in NOVA that rivals that of Silicon valley or Denver. The
Beltway is just crazy, and unenforced. Everyone goes 20 MPH over the speed
limit and if you don't, you get crushed. The cops gave up enforcing it a long
time ago. It is terribly overloaded since the 70's.
So there. I've been there, I've done it, I got the tee-shirt, I've walked the
walk, I tried, I gave it a shot, it didn't work well, I capitulated, left for
much greener pastures and I am not coming back. Most people who come there
inevitably leave also. It was the worst period of my life and going elsewhere
has enhanced my quality of life and improved my peace of mind *immeasurably*.
==============================================================================
Though we have many valleys to travel and mountains to climb and by nature we
are inclined to fear the unknown. Life rewards those of us who accept the call
to go where we have never been even when we, seemingly, have to go there
alone.
==============================================================================
Spinnaker3
Edward Strauss
Hmm... Can't deal with the people or the weather. Any
suggestions on how to get more people like you to leave
or to prevent more from coming??
Ed Strauss
DPH
I have to agree with a lot of what you say... heat, ticks, etc. You forgot the
damn dumbass cost of living, car tax, misc. tax, car tax, congestion, car tax,
carpet tax, and tax on the tax.
I've got a job with Uncle with quite a number of years invested, and the most
boneheaded thing I could possibly do in this lifetime would be to walk away from
the government retirement plan. Good annuity, health plan stays with you after
retirement, and you get almost diddly-squat if you walk away from it...
Unfortunately, due to a government mindset to "contract out" damn near all the
software development, there are really few places left where you can actually do
this job. Most everywhere else, the job for a computer professional is to be a
liaison to a contractor who is actually doing the development. This gets you NO
experience in your chosen field, resulting in the fact that most such people don't
have a clue, which allows contractors to pull the wool over the government's eyes
and charge for things that the low-or-no-software-development-experience liaison
doesn't realize are not actually necessary, or that there's a much better way to
do something. But contractors get paid by the hour, so it is to their advantage
to both have clueless contract monitors and to drag out the job to its maximum
potential. So I'm pretty much stuck here.
But when I do retire, if I don't go insane from this area in the next decade-plus,
I'm outa-here like a shot... I'll probably sell my house a year in advance, just
so I won't be held up any on the way out. Someplace warm in the winter (I,
personally, HATE snow) with lower taxes (and NO $%^&$ state income tax... or CAR
TAX) and either a lotta fun stuff to do, or a really low cost of living. Las
Vegas for the former, Orlando for the latter.
DPH
Bernhard Schopper
>
> Virginia is the worst state I've lived in, I spent almost a decade there. I
> also lived in New York, Colorado, Califronia, Washington. My favorite state
> is Colorado, 300 sunny days per year, no humidity, the sky is almost always
> clear, lots of high tech jobs, wonderful.
... and not to forget sub-zero temperatures foot-high snow in winter.
> I lived both in Northern part of the state (Front Royal, about 60 miles West
> of DC) and in Southwestern part of the state (Blacksburg)... and I just hated
> everything about it.
I guess you don't enjoy nature. The Shenandoah valley is one of the most
beautiful places I've seen (next to the Black Forest in Germany)
>For one thing, I could not find employment there during
> summers when I was not in school since thousands of people were also competing
> for the same shitty $5.25/hour jobs. And I certainly could not find employment
> in my line of work.
Moonshining pays a good wage. ;^)
>The few computer related jobs that I have seen in bigger
> cities like Roanoke or Richmond are so ridiculosly below the going rates it is
> not even funny. For instance, a junior programmer would get about $25K per
> year in Roanoke while in other, decent states that would be more like 45K or
> higher. (Actually, that $25K/year figure is unrealistic to begin with since
> there are no such jobs in Roanoke).
Well, Richmond and Roanoke ain't Silicon Valley. But you're not paying $800 for
a one-bedroom apartment either there.
>And the mid-level to senior-level IT
> positions show an absolutely gigantic difference of almost orders of
> magnitude. I had no idea until I got out and saw the real world. It just does
> not pay well and in fact there are no high-tech jobs anywhere but in Reston/
> Fairfax regions that are really expensive -- I have not lived there.
Give it a try. You'll like it!
> And then the people. I lived in Front Royal since 80's, then moved South. The
> predominant type of person is the redneck in both regions. Relatively
> uneducated, uninteresting, boring, petty rednecks that drive 70's beaters.
> Unsophisticated and crude. In B-burg, there were two types of people, arrogant
> elitist out of state (i.e. Maryland) transplants - ivory type idealists and
> the local people. I've never seen so many liberal loonies and
> pseudo-intellectuals as in Blacksburg (VT) and I've lived all over the
> country.
In the South you'll find rednecks. In the North, you'll find snobs. In the
South, you'll find hospitality. In the North, you'll find arrogance. I take
hospitality any time.
>The seemed to support every major leftist hallucination one could
> think of, animal rights, this diversity shit, "Goddess" bumper stickers,
> "world peace", etc. The worthless gen-X crowd doesn't know anything about
> anything. You step away a bit from the university and you are suddenly in the
> redneck area that are nothing like the college ivory tower people. You try to
> talk to them about some intelligent abstract concept besides best sports team
> and beer and chevy pick up trucks and you get this strangely silent look, not
> even a flicker of understanding in their eyes, no change of expression,
> nothing.
As they say, when in Rome, do as the Romans do.
> Their horrible, rusted out 70's beaters and their terrible crude humor. And
> the religious fascination with sports. Made me ill.
>
> And the redneck tattoos.
> And the 4 cars sitting in the yard with only one running. (Drive around
> C-burg enough and you will see that)
> And the redneck accent.
> Goddamn rednecks. No matter where you go, they are basically the same.
So, Colorado doesn't have rednecks?
> Go to any Virginia Walmart and you will see that the average person there just
> doesn't look like he is working on a degree in Math.
Damn, if I'd own Walmart, I couldn't care less who shops there.
> Strangely enough, when I was in college, I did not have any friends from
> college, I hang out with enlightened locals and actually got along fine with
> them and had fun. That's rather amusing since I grew up in another culture.
> They made more sense to me than leftists lunatics. Although the rednecks
> tended to be Republican, and after I briefly flirted with the Republican
> party, I became a life-long libertarian, a concept even most enlightened
> rednecks could not grasp. That's why I stopped talking even to them.
Geez, don't you know rednecks are profound libertarians? They hate government as
much as you do.
> Blacksburg was composed of the university world and the redneck world,
> probably more university, while Christiansburg was almost entirely redneck...
> I was repulsed by the crudeness of both. I am really glad I got out of there,
> it combined the worst of two worlds. The contrast between the two was amazing.
>
> And the weather.
>
> Oh, the damn weather. I patiently endured it for a long decade. Terrible,
> uncomfortable, summers, high humidity, unbearably hot to be outside.
> Especially in NOVA. I also lived near Richmond and it generally sucks during
> summer. You got to have AC in your house and in your car or you will fry and
> suffocate. During summers, it just wasn't fun to be outside. In fact, even at
> night. It was horribly humid even at night. I've never seen that
> elsewhere. Having moved out where the climate is very different, I am actually
> even more amazed, I have a difficult time grasping that. But all I can say is
> that I remember it as factually true, and several other people confirmed that
> fact. Just recently I heard that the temperature hit 100+F.. Am I glad to be
> out of there.
True, but we have no hurricanes, tornados, earthquakes, floods, and whatever
other calamities plaque the rest of the continent. I settle for a few hot days
in summer.
> And the winters. The terrible, cold winters. I would at least like some real
> snow.. but no. The snow falls for maybe 3 days and then it all melts down and
> that's all. NOVA was a lot more snowier than Souther VA but even there it
> didn't stay very long. I hated the winters there.
I guess Colorado doesn't have "terrible, cold winters." No?
> And the ticks. The goddamn disguising annoying ticks. I have never seen so
> many ticks elsewhere. I have actually seen people get bitten by ticks and
> caught quite a few on myself - probably a dozen or more, but none had actually
> bitten me. Gee, what a relief that is. That repulses me to the highest degree
> and probably a good enough reason in itself to move elsewhere from that damn
> tick-infested state.
You're surely joking! Unless you literally crawl in the woods, you hardly would
get any ticks. So, what you're doing in the woods?
> And the jobs.
>
> That was the final straw. The Virginia economy sucks when it comes to high
> tech IT positions and not Walmart greeter or fast-food jobs. If you actually
> want to make more than $12/hour, God forbid, good luck looking for something
> in gold old Virginia. You won't find it, unless you are talking about the
> extremely expensive and stressed-out Alexandria/Fairfax/Reston/etc region that
> is a part of a different universe altogether and is more apt to be a part of
> Maryland or something. Try 1 bedroom apartments for $1200.
You can't have it both ways. If you want to make $25/hour, you'll be living in
an area with a high cost index of living. In Roanoke, a 1-bedroom apartment
might go for $400, but you won't be making $25/hour. Why don't you commute.
> I was looking for
> a job in Virginia and I could never find one. I actually ended up working at
> shitty fast-food places when I was there simply because I could not find
> anything better, and I had problems getting even that. Virginia Employment
> Comission or whatever it is called was utterly useless. God am I glad I got
> out and increased my salary by an order of a magnitude. Had I stayed, I would
> have moved up to $8.60/hour, or even $10. Nah.
Perhaps the reason you couldn't find a job is because you're an uneducated
redneck. No?
> Poverty and college are synonymous for most people, it seems and I wasn't an
> exception. Even with that aside, it is a really poor state, probably above
> Mississippi and below Georgia.
Not so. According to the Appalachian Regional Commission, Virginia is on top of
the list of affluent Appalachian states.
> And the traffic in NOVA that rivals that of Silicon valley or Denver. The
> Beltway is just crazy, and unenforced. Everyone goes 20 MPH over the speed
> limit and if you don't, you get crushed. The cops gave up enforcing it a long
> time ago. It is terribly overloaded since the 70's.
I concur.
> So there. I've been there, I've done it, I got the tee-shirt, I've walked the
> walk, I tried, I gave it a shot, it didn't work well, I capitulated, left for
> much greener pastures and I am not coming back. Most people who come there
> inevitably leave also. It was the worst period of my life and going elsewhere
> has enhanced my quality of life and improved my peace of mind *immeasurably*.
Good luck in Colorado!
Bernie
--
CyberVisions
http://www.cais.com/webweave/
"A life is not important, except in the impact it has on other lives."
Frederick E. Jorden
themselves.
I would never hire you. Next we will read about you mailing bombs, etc. I have
never net a redneck with a snotty attitude like yours.
Icy Manipulator wrote:
--
Frederick E. Jorden http://fejcpapc.com/
Frederick E. Jorden, CPA PC
10049 Midlothian Tpk - 2-H Richmond, VA 23235 EMAIL fej...@erols.com
(804) 320-6210 FAX (804) 320-6211
Keith A. Glass
Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out, pal. .
--
Systems Administrator / Network Engineer / Systems Engineer
Microsoft Certified Professional
PACEL Corp, Manassas, Virginia, USA
http://www.pacel.com
Pete Plassmann
say.
Except:
No IT jobs? I work for the federal Government, and we can't find people to fill
our positions! These are jobs paying between 40 and 60K. Got any Oracle
experience?
As far as southern hospitality goes, I found it to be a cruel joke. I get treated
much better on trips to New Jersey and New England than I do down here. And no,
it's not me. My wife and other transpants agree. It seems that attitudes about
treating strangers nicely, especially amoung those in the retail trades, are much
different down here. I could tell you stories.
I'd move back in a heatbeat, but the money and my job are down here. Plus my wife
doesn't tolerate snow very well.
It's not all bad. I've lived in much worse areas. Try Lawton, OK, or Dayton, OH
for really horrible places to live.
Just don't try to pass off central VA as paradise, OK?
John Burton
part of the state near if not in the mountains. Neither place considered
a hub of industry and he feels qualified to shit on the whole state...
>
> Virginia is the worst state I've lived in, I spent almost a decade there. I
> also lived in New York, Colorado, Califronia, Washington. My favorite state
> is Colorado, 300 sunny days per year, no humidity, the sky is almost always
> clear, lots of high tech jobs, wonderful.
Ummm...if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen...
>
> I lived both in Northern part of the state (Front Royal, about 60 miles West
> of DC) and in Southwestern part of the state (Blacksburg)... and I just hated
> everything about it. For one thing, I could not find employment there during
> summers when I was not in school since thousands of people were also competing
> for the same shitty $5.25/hour jobs. And I certainly could not find employment
> in my line of work. The few computer related jobs that I have seen in bigger
> cities like Roanoke or Richmond are so ridiculosly below the going rates it is
> not even funny. For instance, a junior programmer would get about $25K per
> year in Roanoke while in other, decent states that would be more like 45K or
> higher. (Actually, that $25K/year figure is unrealistic to begin with since
> there are no such jobs in Roanoke). And the mid-level to senior-level IT
> positions show an absolutely gigantic difference of almost orders of
> magnitude. I had no idea until I got out and saw the real world. It just does
> not pay well and in fact there are no high-tech jobs anywhere but in Reston/
> Fairfax regions that are really expensive -- I have not lived there.
>
Gee... I wonder if *attitude* could have anything to do with not finding
a "hi tech" job? Did you do an exhaustive job search? Obviously not...
take a look at any newspaper east of Williamsburg, or north of
Fredericksburg, you'll find pages of want ads under "Technical
Employment". The salaries are consistent with the cost of living in the
area. Sure you can go to Silicon Valley and get a higher paying job, but
most of that higher pay is eaten up by a higher cost of living...
> And then the people. I lived in Front Royal since 80's, then moved South. The
> predominant type of person is the redneck in both regions. Relatively
> uneducated, uninteresting, boring, petty rednecks that drive 70's beaters.
> Unsophisticated and crude. In B-burg, there were two types of people, arrogant
> elitist out of state (i.e. Maryland) transplants - ivory type idealists and
> the local people. I've never seen so many liberal loonies and
> pseudo-intellectuals as in Blacksburg (VT) and I've lived all over the
> country. The seemed to support every major leftist hallucination one could
> think of, animal rights, this diversity shit, "Goddess" bumper stickers,
> "world peace", etc. The worthless gen-X crowd doesn't know anything about
> anything. You step away a bit from the university and you are suddenly in the
> redneck area that are nothing like the college ivory tower people. You try to
> talk to them about some intelligent abstract concept besides best sports team
> and beer and chevy pick up trucks and you get this strangely silent look, not
> even a flicker of understanding in their eyes, no change of expression,
> nothing.
>
Ya know... all these people you so glibly categorize probably thought
you were a pimple on the ass of life and didn't think you worth their
time...
> And the weather.
>
> Oh, the damn weather. I patiently endured it for a long decade. Terrible,
> uncomfortable, summers, high humidity, unbearably hot to be outside.
> Especially in NOVA. I also lived near Richmond and it generally sucks during
> summer. You got to have AC in your house and in your car or you will fry and
> suffocate. During summers, it just wasn't fun to be outside. In fact, even at
> night. It was horribly humid even at night. I've never seen that
> elsewhere. Having moved out where the climate is very different, I am actually
> even more amazed, I have a difficult time grasping that. But all I can say is
> that I remember it as factually true, and several other people confirmed that
> fact. Just recently I heard that the temperature hit 100+F.. Am I glad to be
> out of there.
And I hear they just had a tornado in Salt Lake city... boy I'm glad I
don't live there... There are fires, floods and earthquakes in CA - boy
I'm glad I don't live there. It rains all the time in Washington - boy
I'm glad I don't live there.. Get the picture? *every* place has good
things and bad things...
>
> And the winters. The terrible, cold winters. I would at least like some real
> snow.. but no. The snow falls for maybe 3 days and then it all melts down and
> that's all. NOVA was a lot more snowier than Souther VA but even there it
> didn't stay very long. I hated the winters there.
>
Virginia??? Terrible cold winters??? Ummm... try living in Colorado...
Temperatures might get below freezing here for a month or so - wear warm
clothes...
>
> That was the final straw. The Virginia economy sucks when it comes to high
> tech IT positions and not Walmart greeter or fast-food jobs. If you actually
> want to make more than $12/hour, God forbid, good luck looking for something
> in gold old Virginia. You won't find it, unless you are talking about the
> extremely expensive and stressed-out Alexandria/Fairfax/Reston/etc region that
> is a part of a different universe altogether and is more apt to be a part of
> Maryland or something. Try 1 bedroom apartments for $1200. I was looking for
> a job in Virginia and I could never find one.
Actually, that says more about you than about Virginia - apparently you
feel *entitled* to a high paying job just because you took some courses
in computers... Sorry, but *good* computer programmers are hard to find,
poor to average programmers can be found anywhere. The best way to tell
the differences is to see how they work, hence lower entry salaries.
Once you "prove" yourself, you'll be making better money...
All I can say is good bye and good riddance...
Icy Manipulator
> Icy Manipulator wrote:
>>
>> Virginia is the worst state I've lived in, I spent almost a decade there. I
>> also lived in New York, Colorado, Califronia, Washington. My favorite state
>> is Colorado, 300 sunny days per year, no humidity, the sky is almost always
>> clear, lots of high tech jobs, wonderful.
> ... and not to forget sub-zero temperatures foot-high snow in winter.
I know. I love snow. I would go there just for that reason. Or alternatively,
Montana or North Dakota, where you get real winters.
>> I lived both in Northern part of the state (Front Royal, about 60 miles West
>> of DC) and in Southwestern part of the state (Blacksburg)... and I just hated
>> everything about it.
> I guess you don't enjoy nature. The Shenandoah valley is one of the most
> beautiful places I've seen (next to the Black Forest in Germany)
Well, it is too hot during the summer to get out and enjoy it. But all,
right, you score this point.
>>For one thing, I could not find employment there during
>> summers when I was not in school since thousands of people were also competing
>> for the same shitty $5.25/hour jobs. And I certainly could not find employment
>> in my line of work.
> Moonshining pays a good wage. ;^)
I cannot wait already.
>>The few computer related jobs that I have seen in bigger
>> cities like Roanoke or Richmond are so ridiculosly below the going rates it is
>> not even funny. For instance, a junior programmer would get about $25K per
>> year in Roanoke while in other, decent states that would be more like 45K or
>> higher. (Actually, that $25K/year figure is unrealistic to begin with since
>> there are no such jobs in Roanoke).
> Well, Richmond and Roanoke ain't Silicon Valley.
Well, not shit.
> But you're not paying $800 for a one-bedroom apartment either there.
Nope, you ain't paying $800 for a one bedroom. In Silicon Valley it is more
like $1500 for a one-bedroom, but in terms of real wages, as a percentage of
one's income, Silly Valley was the cheapest place I lived in.
>>And the mid-level to senior-level IT
>> positions show an absolutely gigantic difference of almost orders of
>> magnitude. I had no idea until I got out and saw the real world. It just does
>> not pay well and in fact there are no high-tech jobs anywhere but in Reston/
>> Fairfax regions that are really expensive -- I have not lived there.
> Give it a try. You'll like it!
If I find a contract there, I won't rule it out.
>> And then the people. I lived in Front Royal since 80's, then moved South. The
>> predominant type of person is the redneck in both regions. Relatively
>> uneducated, uninteresting, boring, petty rednecks that drive 70's beaters.
>> Unsophisticated and crude. In B-burg, there were two types of people, arrogant
>> elitist out of state (i.e. Maryland) transplants - ivory type idealists and
>> the local people. I've never seen so many liberal loonies and
>> pseudo-intellectuals as in Blacksburg (VT) and I've lived all over the
>> country.
> In the South you'll find rednecks. In the North, you'll find snobs. In the
> South, you'll find hospitality. In the North, you'll find arrogance. I take
> hospitality any time.
Oh, don't give me this hospitality shit. It is a fantasy.
>>The seemed to support every major leftist hallucination one could
>> think of, animal rights, this diversity shit, "Goddess" bumper stickers,
>> "world peace", etc. The worthless gen-X crowd doesn't know anything about
>> anything. You step away a bit from the university and you are suddenly in the
>> redneck area that are nothing like the college ivory tower people. You try to
>> talk to them about some intelligent abstract concept besides best sports team
>> and beer and chevy pick up trucks and you get this strangely silent look, not
>> even a flicker of understanding in their eyes, no change of expression,
>> nothing.
> As they say, when in Rome, do as the Romans do.
Oh, wonderful.
>> Their horrible, rusted out 70's beaters and their terrible crude humor. And
>> the religious fascination with sports. Made me ill.
>>
>> And the redneck tattoos.
>> And the 4 cars sitting in the yard with only one running. (Drive around
>> C-burg enough and you will see that)
>> And the redneck accent.
>> Goddamn rednecks. No matter where you go, they are basically the same.
> So, Colorado doesn't have rednecks?
Nope. People's Republic of Boulder is a lot more sophisticated, and the
average person is far better educated and interesting to talk to you than some
Joe sixpack in Christiansburg. Snobs, yes. Boulder was a bit snobby, and the
number of BMWs, Mercedes and other high-end cars was the highest I've ever
seen... but overall, it was quite an experience. It just a middle to lower
uppper class society, whereas most places in Virginia are lower, blue color
class.
>> Go to any Virginia Walmart and you will see that the average person there just
>> doesn't look like he is working on a degree in Math.
> Damn, if I'd own Walmart, I couldn't care less who shops there.
Oh, I see.
>> Strangely enough, when I was in college, I did not have any friends from
>> college, I hang out with enlightened locals and actually got along fine with
>> them and had fun. That's rather amusing since I grew up in another culture.
>> They made more sense to me than leftists lunatics. Although the rednecks
>> tended to be Republican, and after I briefly flirted with the Republican
>> party, I became a life-long libertarian, a concept even most enlightened
>> rednecks could not grasp. That's why I stopped talking even to them.
> Geez, don't you know rednecks are profound libertarians? They hate government as
> much as you do.
Nice strawman. I don't have the government. I love the government. I hate
corrupt, unconstitutional governments that cease to be by the people and for
the people.
> True, but we have no hurricanes, tornados, earthquakes, floods, and whatever
> other calamities plaque the rest of the continent. I settle for a few hot days
> in summer.
Then it sounds like a good deal. You like it there and I like it here.
Wonderful.
>> And the winters. The terrible, cold winters. I would at least like some real
>> snow.. but no. The snow falls for maybe 3 days and then it all melts down and
>> that's all. NOVA was a lot more snowier than Souther VA but even there it
>> didn't stay very long. I hated the winters there.
> I guess Colorado doesn't have "terrible, cold winters." No?
Oh, yes. I forgot to mention that. I will not settle anywhere that doesn't
have an honest, snowy winter. Colorado is a pretty good candidate, although I
can find a lot cheaper places. Boulder is expensive.
> You're surely joking! Unless you literally crawl in the woods, you hardly would
> get any ticks. So, what you're doing in the woods?
Thank you for an utter lack of sensitivity to my plight.
>> And the jobs.
>>
>> That was the final straw. The Virginia economy sucks when it comes to high
>> tech IT positions and not Walmart greeter or fast-food jobs. If you actually
>> want to make more than $12/hour, God forbid, good luck looking for something
>> in gold old Virginia. You won't find it, unless you are talking about the
>> extremely expensive and stressed-out Alexandria/Fairfax/Reston/etc region that
>> is a part of a different universe altogether and is more apt to be a part of
>> Maryland or something. Try 1 bedroom apartments for $1200.
> You can't have it both ways. If you want to make $25/hour, you'll be living in
> an area with a high cost index of living. In Roanoke, a 1-bedroom apartment
> might go for $400, but you won't be making $25/hour. Why don't you commute.
Each time I move - I work as a contractor, my apartments go up in price but in
terms of real dollars, they are cheaper than ever. That's right. Virginia
where I paid $220 for an effeciency apartment was the most expensive place
I ever lived.
>> I was looking for
>> a job in Virginia and I could never find one. I actually ended up working at
>> shitty fast-food places when I was there simply because I could not find
>> anything better, and I had problems getting even that. Virginia Employment
>> Comission or whatever it is called was utterly useless. God am I glad I got
>> out and increased my salary by an order of a magnitude. Had I stayed, I would
>> have moved up to $8.60/hour, or even $10. Nah.
> Perhaps the reason you couldn't find a job is because you're an uneducated
> redneck. No?
Oh, now that makes it all clear. WHY didn't I think of *that*.
(That's hardly an intelligent response to a perfectly valid objection.)
>> Poverty and college are synonymous for most people, it seems and I wasn't an
>> exception. Even with that aside, it is a really poor state, probably above
>> Mississippi and below Georgia.
> Not so. According to the Appalachian Regional Commission, Virginia is on top of
> the list of affluent Appalachian states.
Oh, I am so relieved now.
>> And the traffic in NOVA that rivals that of Silicon valley or Denver. The
>> Beltway is just crazy, and unenforced. Everyone goes 20 MPH over the speed
>> limit and if you don't, you get crushed. The cops gave up enforcing it a long
>> time ago. It is terribly overloaded since the 70's.
> I concur.
No, really?
>> So there. I've been there, I've done it, I got the tee-shirt, I've walked the
>> walk, I tried, I gave it a shot, it didn't work well, I capitulated, left for
>> much greener pastures and I am not coming back. Most people who come there
>> inevitably leave also. It was the worst period of my life and going elsewhere
>> has enhanced my quality of life and improved my peace of mind *immeasurably*.
> Good luck in Colorado!
I might come back there some day... It was fun.
To some extent, your life is what you make of it, but you cannot neglect
some external influences.
Scott & Liz
about moving back to Virginia for the same reasons you'd rather live up here. Maybe
it's just a case of "no place like home".
Pete Plassmann wrote:
> I grew up in New England and kind of sympathise with what some of what he has to
> say.
>
Ilya
> Reality: learn to deal with it
Oh, thanks for sharing your infinite wisdom. That will surely resolve all the
problems.
> Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out, pal. .
> --
> Systems Administrator / Network Engineer / Systems Engineer
> Microsoft Certified Professional
> PACEL Corp, Manassas, Virginia, USA
Well, I realize how you see things on Planet Manassas, but here in the real
world... never mind.
Ilya
> I grew up in New England and kind of sympathise with what some of what he has to
> say.
> Except:
> No IT jobs? I work for the federal Government, and we can't find people to fill
> our positions! These are jobs paying between 40 and 60K. Got any Oracle
> experience?
Where - in NOVA, of course. I've said that NOVA is not really a part of
Virginia. It is more like a different state in itself and has nothing to do
with Appalachia or anything in Virginia. Most people who come there are from
other states or even countries, like yourself.
In NOVA, Like Alexandria, etc, you get nice jobs but you also get huge living
costs not quite similar to living costs in Silicon Valley, but going there.
It's just a completely different animal from the Virginia I am talking
about. I never lived in the DC area anyway.
> As far as southern hospitality goes, I found it to be a cruel joke. I get treated
> much better on trips to New Jersey and New England than I do down here. And no,
> it's not me. My wife and other transpants agree. It seems that attitudes about
> treating strangers nicely, especially amoung those in the retail trades, are much
> different down here. I could tell you stories.
That's another point I forgot to mention. Southern hospitality. Let me pause
while I laugh. Hahahahaha hohohohoho what bullshit. If you look a bit
differently, or talk a bit differently, or whatever, you will never fit in.
NEVER.
> I'd move back in a heatbeat, but the money and my job are down here. Plus my wife
> doesn't tolerate snow very well.
Well, I tolerate snow really well. I love snow. I want to move to a snowy
state that's just like the country I was born in. I want 2, 3, 4 feet of snow.
I want to swim in the snow.
> It's not all bad. I've lived in much worse areas. Try Lawton, OK, or Dayton, OH
> for really horrible places to live.
> Just don't try to pass off central VA as paradise, OK?
OK. Got a deal.
Ilya
> Ummm...if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen...
Oh, NOW I've seen the light and been blessed with your infinite wisdom.
> Gee... I wonder if *attitude* could have anything to do with not finding a
> "hi tech" job? Did you do an exhaustive job search? Obviously not... take a
> look at any newspaper east of Williamsburg, or north of Fredericksburg,
> you'll find pages of want ads under "Technical Employment". The salaries are
> consistent with the cost of living in the area. Sure you can go to Silicon
> Valley and get a higher paying job, but most of that higher pay is eaten up
> by a higher cost of living...
Then you obviously haven't lived there.
> And I hear they just had a tornado in Salt Lake city... boy I'm glad I
> don't live there... There are fires, floods and earthquakes in CA - boy
> I'm glad I don't live there. It rains all the time in Washington - boy
> I'm glad I don't live there.. Get the picture? *every* place has good
> things and bad things...
I haven't had any problems.
> Actually, that says more about you than about Virginia - apparently you feel
> *entitled* to a high paying job just because you took some courses in
> computers... Sorry, but *good* computer programmers are hard to find, poor
> to average programmers can be found anywhere. The best way to tell the
> differences is to see how they work, hence lower entry salaries. Once you
> "prove" yourself, you'll be making better money...
You miss the point, entirely.
Ilya
> Don't hold it back, tell us what you really think.
Don't worry, I won't disappoint you.
Ilya
Oh dear. You wounded me beyond your imagination.
Ilya
> So, why did YOU stay 10 years????
I don't know. I should have never come there in the first place.
> I have to agree with a lot of what you say... heat, ticks, etc. You forgot the
> damn dumbass cost of living, car tax, misc. tax, car tax, congestion, car tax,
> carpet tax, and tax on the tax.
Yep. *laugh*
> something. But contractors get paid by the hour, so it is to their
> advantage to both have clueless contract monitors and to drag out the job to
> its maximum potential. So I'm pretty much stuck here.
> But when I do retire, if I don't go insane from this area in the next
> decade-plus, I'm outa-here like a shot... I'll probably sell my house a
> year in advance, just so I won't be held up any on the way out. Someplace
> warm in the winter (I, personally, HATE snow) with lower taxes (and NO $%^&$
> state income tax... or CAR TAX) and either a lotta fun stuff to do, or a
> really low cost of living. Las Vegas for the former, Orlando for the
> latter.
Sounds like a good idea. I would suggest Washington. Very beautiful place.
Colorado is very nice too. California is hotter than hell, but has
very nice winters.
Pete Plassmann
in.
I must admit, though, I found a group of Richmonders who have kind of accepted me in to
their circle of friends. It's the first time this has happened to me in a long time,
and I've lived all over the world. It's really neat.
Pete
Scott & Liz wrote:
> This is really funny. We've been in Boston for the last few years, and are talking
> about moving back to Virginia for the same reasons you'd rather live up here. Maybe
> it's just a case of "no place like home".
>
> Pete Plassmann wrote:
>
> > I grew up in New England and kind of sympathise with what some of what he has to
> > say.
> >
Pete Plassmann
Pete
Ilya wrote:
> Pete Plassmann <plas...@erols.com> wrote:
> > No IT jobs? I work for the federal Government, and we can't find people to fill
> > our positions! These are jobs paying between 40 and 60K. Got any Oracle
> > experience?
>
> Where - in NOVA, of course. I've said that NOVA is not really a part of
> Virginia. It is more like a different state in itself and has nothing to do
> with Appalachia or anything in Virginia. Most people who come there are from
> other states or even countries, like yourself.
>
> In NOVA, Like Alexandria, etc, you get nice jobs but you also get huge living
> costs not quite similar to living costs in Silicon Valley, but going there.
> It's just a completely different animal from the Virginia I am talking
> about. I never lived in the DC area anyway.
>
> > As far as southern hospitality goes, I found it to be a cruel joke. I get treated
> > much better on trips to New Jersey and New England than I do down here. And no,
> > it's not me. My wife and other transpants agree. It seems that attitudes about
> > treating strangers nicely, especially amoung those in the retail trades, are much
> > different down here. I could tell you stories.
>
> That's another point I forgot to mention. Southern hospitality. Let me pause
> while I laugh. Hahahahaha hohohohoho what bullshit. If you look a bit
> differently, or talk a bit differently, or whatever, you will never fit in.
> NEVER.
>
> > I'd move back in a heatbeat, but the money and my job are down here. Plus my wife
> > doesn't tolerate snow very well.
>
> Well, I tolerate snow really well. I love snow. I want to move to a snowy
> state that's just like the country I was born in. I want 2, 3, 4 feet of snow.
> I want to swim in the snow.
>
> > It's not all bad. I've lived in much worse areas. Try Lawton, OK, or Dayton, OH
> > for really horrible places to live.
> > Just don't try to pass off central VA as paradise, OK?
>
> OK. Got a deal.
John Burton
>
> John Burton <j.c.b...@gats-inc.com> wrote:
>
> > Gee... I wonder if *attitude* could have anything to do with not finding a
> > "hi tech" job? Did you do an exhaustive job search? Obviously not... take a
> > look at any newspaper east of Williamsburg, or north of Fredericksburg,
> > you'll find pages of want ads under "Technical Employment". The salaries are
> > consistent with the cost of living in the area. Sure you can go to Silicon
> > Valley and get a higher paying job, but most of that higher pay is eaten up
> > by a higher cost of living...
>
>
Sorry your crystal ball broke...I've lived in the places I've mentioned,
including Silicon Valley. Housing is *much* more expensive, gas is
*much* more expensive, insurance is higher, food works out about the
same... I had a higher salary, but after all the bills were paid, wound
up with about the same amount...
> > And I hear they just had a tornado in Salt Lake city... boy I'm glad I
> > don't live there... There are fires, floods and earthquakes in CA - boy
> > I'm glad I don't live there. It rains all the time in Washington - boy
> > I'm glad I don't live there.. Get the picture? *every* place has good
> > things and bad things...
>
> I haven't had any problems.
Neither have I, but then again, I don't whine about the weather. If you
don't like the weather, learn to deal with it or move. Whining about it
makes you sound like a 4 year old...
>
> > Actually, that says more about you than about Virginia - apparently you feel
> > *entitled* to a high paying job just because you took some courses in
> > computers... Sorry, but *good* computer programmers are hard to find, poor
> > to average programmers can be found anywhere. The best way to tell the
> > differences is to see how they work, hence lower entry salaries. Once you
> > "prove" yourself, you'll be making better money...
>
> You miss the point, entirely.
Nope... Since you apparently missed the point, let me explain it... you
whined that there were *no* high tech jobs in Virginia based on your
experience in Blacksburg and Front Royal, then went on to compare it to
places like Silicon Valley. Clue for you - not *all* places have high
tech jobs. There are many areas in your beloved California and Colorado
that have *no* high tech jobs and are comparable to Blacksburg and Front
Royal in their population mix (including people with old beat-up
pickups...:-). You want a high tech job, go to where the high tech jobs
are, i.e. NOVA or Southeast (Tidewater & Penisula). In the current
economic climate, if you can't find a job in one of those places, then
thats your problem. If you're not even willing to look there, then that
is your problem also. Entry level jobs are just a starting point. Most
have a salary review within 6 months of your hire date. If your doing
well, you'll get a raise. If not, then maybe you should think about a
different profession. Either way, whining is *not* a quality employers
look for...
John
shambyva
Edward Strauss wrote in message <7otpe2$kbf$1...@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>...
>
>
> Hmm... Can't deal with the people or the weather. Any
>suggestions on how to get more people like you to leave
>or to prevent more from coming??
>
>
>
Frederick E. Jorden
Pete Plassmann wrote:
> Could be. Maybe what Ilya said was true, too. If you don't fit in, well, you don't fit
> in.
>
> I must admit, though, I found a group of Richmonders who have kind of accepted me in to
> their circle of friends. It's the first time this has happened to me in a long time,
> and I've lived all over the world. It's really neat.
>
> Pete
>
>
You have to realize the true Virginians have heard from their Grandpa what the Northern army
of occupation did to them
the during that war. It takes several years for them to realize that all yankees don't rape,
pillage and burn their city down. But as a
former yankee I have seen Virginia can be a wonderful place to live, if you give it a chance
and stop looking down your nose.
Ged
So you couldn't find many IT jobs out in the sticks, huh? Did you ever
try changing careers? Maybe you should have tried dairy farming in the
inner city.
Ged [a non-Republican, non-liberal, non-redneck who works a high-tech
job in Fairfax earning at or above the national average for the industry
and lives closer to Front Royal than to Reston]
Icy Manipulator wrote:
< long whining rant deleted >
Eas...@hotmail.xcom
Mark C. Orton
>Virginia is the worst state I've lived in, I spent almost a decade there.
Glutton for punishment, aren't you?
-Mark-
Ilya
> This is really funny. We've been in Boston for the last few years, and are talking
> about moving back to Virginia for the same reasons you'd rather live up here. Maybe
> it's just a case of "no place like home".
Boston is *expensive*. You got to make a pretty high hourly figure to stay
viable as an IT professional. But then that's my personal view.
Go to www2.homefair.com to compare cost of living.
Ilya
> Could be. Maybe what Ilya said was true, too. If you don't fit in, well, you don't fit
> in.
> I must admit, though, I found a group of Richmonders who have kind of accepted me in to
> their circle of friends. It's the first time this has happened to me in a long time,
> and I've lived all over the world. It's really neat.
My point is that every other place I've been to has been far more tolerant and
more diverse, culturally, ethnically, religious, most importantly -
intellectually than Virginia. It is stagnating to live in some city like
Roanoke or Richmond or Fredericksburg.
Ilya
> You have to realize the true Virginians have heard from their Grandpa what
> the Northern army of occupation did to them the during that war. It takes
> several years for them to realize that all yankees don't rape, pillage and
> burn their city down. But as a former yankee I have seen Virginia can be a
> wonderful place to live, if you give it a chance and stop looking down your
> nose.
Actually, on this one, Virginians are right. Too bad they lost the war for
Southern Independence. The war was unconstitutional to begin with. When I
lived in Virginia, I had a bumpersticker with a confederate flag glued on my
Dodge Dart - the quintessential redneck car. :)
I still cannot believe their incompetence. They should have kicked your ass a
long time ago, but they relocated the capital to Richmond. What a mistake.
It should have been mobile.
Ilya
> Ilya wrote:
>>
>> John Burton <j.c.b...@gats-inc.com> wrote:
>>
>> > "hi tech" job? Did you do an exhaustive job search? Obviously not... take a
>> > look at any newspaper east of Williamsburg, or north of Fredericksburg,
>> > you'll find pages of want ads under "Technical Employment". The salaries are
>> > consistent with the cost of living in the area. Sure you can go to Silicon
>> > Valley and get a higher paying job, but most of that higher pay is eaten up
>> > by a higher cost of living...
>>
>>
> Sorry your crystal ball broke...I've lived in the places I've mentioned,
> including Silicon Valley. Housing is *much* more expensive, gas is
> *much* more expensive, insurance is higher, food works out about the
> same... I had a higher salary, but after all the bills were paid, wound
> up with about the same amount...
In my experience, it is cheaper to live in Silicon Valley. You don't get $500
apartments but then you don't get $8.60/hour jobs either.
> Nope... Since you apparently missed the point, let me explain it... you
> whined that there were *no* high tech jobs in Virginia based on your
> experience in Blacksburg and Front Royal, then went on to compare it to
> places like Silicon Valley. Clue for you - not *all* places have high tech
> jobs. There are many areas in your beloved California and Colorado that have
> *no* high tech jobs and are comparable to Blacksburg and Front Royal in
> their population mix (including people with old beat-up pickups...:-). You
> want a high tech job, go to where the high tech jobs are, i.e. NOVA or
> Southeast (Tidewater & Penisula). In the current economic climate, if you
> can't find a job in one of those places, then thats your problem. If you're
> not even willing to look there, then that is your problem also. Entry level
> jobs are just a starting point. Most have a salary review within 6 months of
> your hire date. If your doing well, you'll get a raise. If not, then maybe
> you should think about a different profession. Either way, whining is *not*
> a quality employers look for...
Well, I could not find a job there and it is not my problem. It's just not a
very IT-oriented state.
Ilya
> Nice MTG reference...
Heh.
> You are correct in entirety my friend.
Oh, I am not always that cynical. I actually have quite a few good memories
also. I think I was just very unhappy there for reasons unrelated to Virginia
itself. Sorry.
Ilya
> Thanks for sharing.
> So you couldn't find many IT jobs out in the sticks, huh? Did you ever
> try changing careers? Maybe you should have tried dairy farming in the
> inner city.
> Ged [a non-Republican, non-liberal, non-redneck who works a high-tech
> job in Fairfax earning at or above the national average for the industry
> and lives closer to Front Royal than to Reston]
Oh, OK.
Fairfax is not really Virginia. It is different.
Bonnie Key
in...
Having been born in south central VA, traveled all over the world, been to 40+
of the United States, including having lived in New Hampshire the last three
years (ranked as the best state to live in by several magazines), I am now
returning HOME to Virginia. I've looked at Denver, Seattle, LA, and other
areas, and there is no place that I find to be more attractive. I have the
mountains, the seashore, 4 seasons of approximately equal length (hey - you
don't like cold winters - don't come to New England), and the cost of living is
LOWER than most other areas. I've checked it out and compared, both in person,
and in using the COLA websites available in many places.
As for taxes, New Hampshire boasts about being the only state with no income
tax or sales tax. Guess what - I pay more in taxes here than I did in
Virginia. My nice little 1800 sf home costs me $4000/year in taxes.... Not to
mention that the car "registration fee" is the same as the VA personal property
tax... just has a different name on it...
So, the point is, if you don't like it, find somewhere else to go. Pretty much
what I've found is that if you're looking for a reason to be miserable, you'll
find it. If you look at the excellent qualities of wherever you are, you are
going to be a lot happier. And it's less likely to cause you to make a jerk of
yourself on the Internet...
--Bonnie, non-red-neck Mensa member who earns jack squat as an educator so that
more people don't turn out like this guy....
Frederick E. Jorden
Bonnie Key wrote:
We will welcome you back even if you aint a red neck!
J Lee Jaap
Same with the people who hate the USA. Ken Hamblin (an American who
happens to have been born black) has offered to pay one way passage
for any black who wishes to return to Africa. "Pick a Better Country"
is one of his books.
--
J Lee Jaap <Jaa...@POBox.com>
Bernhard Schopper
>Too bad they lost the war for
> Southern Independence. The war was unconstitutional to begin with. When I
> lived in Virginia, I had a bumpersticker with a confederate flag glued on my
> Dodge Dart - the quintessential redneck car. :)
>
> I still cannot believe their incompetence. They should have kicked your ass a
> long time ago, but they relocated the capital to Richmond. What a mistake.
> It should have been mobile.
Not really. Their biggest mistake was to enroll Afro-Americans too late in the
war.
They could have won it by sheerly outnumbering Grant's forces early on.
Bernie
--
CyberVisions
http://www.cais.com/webweave/
"A life is not important, except in the impact it has on other lives."
Bernhard Schopper
<snip>
>
> Fairfax is not really Virginia. It is different.
Oh? So how is Fairfax different? Is it different because its residents, unlike
you, are well educated, politically diversive, tolerant, and prefer, unlike you,
the ambiance of a sophisticated urban life style. No?
Ilya
> Ilya wrote:
> <snip>
>>
>> Fairfax is not really Virginia. It is different.
> Oh? So how is Fairfax different? Is it different because its residents, unlike
> you, are well educated, politically diversive, tolerant, and prefer, unlike you,
> the ambiance of a sophisticated urban life style. No?
Resorting to insults, true hallmark of a petty mind.
John Gilmer
Bernhard Schopper <webw...@cais.com> wrote in message
news:37B4CE79...@cais.com...
> Ilya wrote:
> <snip>
> >
> > Fairfax is not really Virginia. It is different.
>
> Oh? So how is Fairfax different? Is it different because its residents,
unlike
> you, are well educated, politically diversive, tolerant, and prefer,
unlike you,
> the ambiance of a sophisticated urban life style. No?
"Bernhard," your post just answered what the difference between Fairfax and
most of the rest of Virginia is.
Fairfax is over crowded by pompous asses who think the rest of the world is
just stupid.
JLG
John Gilmer
> Ilya wrote:
> >
> > Frederick E. Jorden <fej...@erols.com> wrote:
> <snip>
> >Too bad they lost the war for
> > Southern Independence. The war was unconstitutional to begin with. When
I
> > lived in Virginia, I had a bumpersticker with a confederate flag glued
on my
> > Dodge Dart - the quintessential redneck car. :)
> >
> > I still cannot believe their incompetence. They should have kicked your
ass a
> > long time ago, but they relocated the capital to Richmond. What a
mistake.
> > It should have been mobile.
>
> Not really. Their biggest mistake was to enroll Afro-Americans too late in
the
> war.
> They could have won it by sheerly outnumbering Grant's forces early on.
It that what they teach you in Fairfax?
Bernhard Schopper
> > Ilya wrote:
> > <snip>
> > >
> > > Fairfax is not really Virginia. It is different.
> >
> > Oh? So how is Fairfax different? Is it different because its residents,
> unlike
> > you, are well educated, politically diversive, tolerant, and prefer,
> unlike you,
> > the ambiance of a sophisticated urban life style. No?
>
> "Bernhard," your post just answered what the difference between Fairfax and
> most of the rest of Virginia is.
>
> Fairfax is over crowded by pompous asses who think the rest of the world is
> just stupid.
Perhaps so, but according to statistics, NOVA (that includes Fairfax, in case
you don't know) provides 1/3 of the tax revenues generated in all of Virginia.
Which means, us "pompous asses" are generously supporting the poor hillbillies
down south.
Bernhard Schopper
>
> Bernhard Schopper <webw...@cais.com> wrote:
> > Ilya wrote:
> > <snip>
> >>
> >> Fairfax is not really Virginia. It is different.
>
> > Oh? So how is Fairfax different? Is it different because its residents, unlike
> > you, are well educated, politically diversive, tolerant, and prefer, unlike you,
> > the ambiance of a sophisticated urban life style. No?
>
Oh, what petty mind you have insulting the noble and venerable Commonwealth of
Virginia.
Frederick E. Jorden
invasion by the alien troops in DC and MD.
Bernhard Schopper wrote:
> John Gilmer wrote:
> >
> > Bernhard Schopper <webw...@cais.com> wrote in message
> > news:37B4CE79...@cais.com...
> > > Ilya wrote:
> > > <snip>
> > > >
> > > > Fairfax is not really Virginia. It is different.
> > >
> > > Oh? So how is Fairfax different? Is it different because its residents,
> > unlike
> > > you, are well educated, politically diversive, tolerant, and prefer,
> > unlike you,
> > > the ambiance of a sophisticated urban life style. No?
> >
> > "Bernhard," your post just answered what the difference between Fairfax and
> > most of the rest of Virginia is.
> >
> > Fairfax is over crowded by pompous asses who think the rest of the world is
> > just stupid.
>
> Perhaps so, but according to statistics, NOVA (that includes Fairfax, in case
> you don't know) provides 1/3 of the tax revenues generated in all of Virginia.
> Which means, us "pompous asses" are generously supporting the poor hillbillies
> down south.
>
> Bernie
> --
> CyberVisions
> http://www.cais.com/webweave/
>
> "A life is not important, except in the impact it has on other lives."
--
DPH
This is why abortion is so easily tolerated.
DPH
John Gilmer
I don't argue that you pay a lot of taxes.
My question is what are you in No.VA so foolish as to always want to
increase taxes and spend more money?
It would seem to me that you would want to REDUCE state wide taxes and
increase your local taxes. That way you would keep more of your money.
JLG
>
> Bernie
> --
> CyberVisions
> http://www.cais.com/webweave/
>
Bernhard Schopper
<snip>
> I don't argue that you pay a lot of taxes.
>
> My question is what are you in No.VA so foolish as to always want to
> increase taxes and spend more money?
> It would seem to me that you would want to REDUCE state wide taxes and
> increase your local taxes. That way you would keep more of your money.
I don't get your point. First, we don't pay county piggy-back income taxes like
the Marylanders do. Second, our NOVA income tax rate is not higher/lower than
what the Richmonders down south pay, for example.
In regard to property taxes, yes they do vary from county to county.
As far as state-wide income tax rates are concerned, they're fixed by the
Commonwealth, not by NOVA.
Bernhard Schopper
>
> > "A life is not important, except in the impact it has on other lives."
>
>
> DPH
A wise observation. Unborns have no impact on other lives.
But then again, neither have the terminally ill, other than being a nuisance.
This is why The Netherlands has legalized euthanasia.
JMace55520
>you don't know) provides 1/3 of the tax revenues generated in all of
>Virginia.
But if you were real smart you would check to see what the population is in
NOVA and it is more than likely close to 1/3 of the whole make up of the state
of VA. Also if you make the big bucks you pay your precentage of taxes just as
the poor would theirs.
MACE
http://members.aol.com/JMace55520
E-Mail: JMace...@aol.com
Frederick E. Jorden
of you shells. Listen to the folks in the mountains, in southside, on eastern
shore, etc. But the proximity to the great mother federal sow makes you think the
only solution is more taxes.
Bernhard Schopper wrote:
> John Gilmer wrote:
> <snip>
> > I don't argue that you pay a lot of taxes.
> >
> > My question is what are you in No.VA so foolish as to always want to
> > increase taxes and spend more money?
>
> > It would seem to me that you would want to REDUCE state wide taxes and
> > increase your local taxes. That way you would keep more of your money.
>
> I don't get your point. First, we don't pay county piggy-back income taxes like
> the Marylanders do. Second, our NOVA income tax rate is not higher/lower than
> what the Richmonders down south pay, for example.
> In regard to property taxes, yes they do vary from county to county.
> As far as state-wide income tax rates are concerned, they're fixed by the
> Commonwealth, not by NOVA.
>
> Bernie
> --
> CyberVisions
> http://www.cais.com/webweave/
>
> "A life is not important, except in the impact it has on other lives."
--
Bernhard Schopper
>
> >NOVA (that includes Fairfax, in case
> >you don't know) provides 1/3 of the tax revenues generated in all of
> >Virginia.
>
> But if you were real smart you would check to see what the population is in
> NOVA and it is more than likely close to 1/3 of the whole make up of the state
> of VA. Also if you make the big bucks you pay your precentage of taxes just as
> the poor would theirs.
Yes, but why should we, the NOVAs, support the poor hillbillies of the the rest
of the commonwealth. The tax revenues we generate should be given to our
counties, not to other VA counties.
It is not justice to take away from a man that is duly his to give it to those
less fortunate!
Ilya
> "Bernhard," your post just answered what the difference between Fairfax and
> most of the rest of Virginia is.
> Fairfax is over crowded by pompous asses who think the rest of the world is
> just stupid.
That's right! *laugh*
==============================================================================
Though we have many valleys to travel and mountains to climb, by nature we are
Ilya
> Oh, what petty mind you have insulting the noble and venerable Commonwealth of
> Virginia.
Oh, the noble and the venerable Commonwealth. Loved these slightly-above the
minimum wage jobs, loved the poverty and the provincial mindset, loved it all.
Lee Cremeans
>
>Virginia is the worst state I've lived in, I spent almost a decade there. I
>also lived in New York, Colorado, Califronia, Washington. My favorite state
>is Colorado, 300 sunny days per year, no humidity, the sky is almost always
>clear, lots of high tech jobs, wonderful.
>
>I lived both in Northern part of the state (Front Royal, about 60 miles West
>of DC) and in Southwestern part of the state (Blacksburg)... and I just hated
>everything about it.
I've lived in VA since 1979 (when I was 2 and a half). I always liked the
city areas more, and when I lived in central VA from 1987-1992, I hated it
(I still consider those the worst years of my life, but I won't go into that
here.)
>For one thing, I could not find employment there during
>summers when I was not in school since thousands of people were also competing
>for the same shitty $5.25/hour jobs. And I certainly could not find employment
>in my line of work. The few computer related jobs that I have seen in bigger
>cities like Roanoke or Richmond are so ridiculosly below the going rates it is
>not even funny. For instance, a junior programmer would get about $25K per
>year in Roanoke while in other, decent states that would be more like 45K or
>higher. (Actually, that $25K/year figure is unrealistic to begin with since
>there are no such jobs in Roanoke). And the mid-level to senior-level IT
>positions show an absolutely gigantic difference of almost orders of
>magnitude. I had no idea until I got out and saw the real world. It just does
>not pay well and in fact there are no high-tech jobs anywhere but in Reston/
>Fairfax regions that are really expensive -- I have not lived there.
I didn't have any trouble finding a job when I was looking, but you are
right about NoVA being really expensive. If I wanted to live on my own, at
this point I'd have to be making something like $50k/yr on salary. And even
then, I'd probably need a roomie, if only to combat loneliness.
[stuff about Montgomery Co. rednecks and fake intellectuals snipped, because
I can't really discuss those points]
>Go to any Virginia Walmart and you will see that the average person there just
>doesn't look like he is working on a degree in Math.
I'll agree here; Wal-Mart is about as white-trash as you can get. And they
also tend to be unbelievably crowded (the Manassas one in particular).
[snother snip]
>And the weather.
>
>Oh, the damn weather. I patiently endured it for a long decade. Terrible,
>uncomfortable, summers, high humidity, unbearably hot to be outside.
>Especially in NOVA. I also lived near Richmond and it generally sucks during
>summer. You got to have AC in your house and in your car or you will fry and
>suffocate. During summers, it just wasn't fun to be outside. In fact, even at
>night. It was horribly humid even at night. I've never seen that
>elsewhere. Having moved out where the climate is very different, I am actually
>even more amazed, I have a difficult time grasping that. But all I can say is
>that I remember it as factually true, and several other people confirmed that
>fact. Just recently I heard that the temperature hit 100+F.. Am I glad to be
>out of there.
Oh yeah. At the house out in the country, we didn't have central A/C. Fans
were the things that kept us alive, at least until we got working air
conditioners for some of the rooms there.
>And the winters. The terrible, cold winters. I would at least like some real
>snow.. but no. The snow falls for maybe 3 days and then it all melts down and
>that's all. NOVA was a lot more snowier than Souther VA but even there it
>didn't stay very long. I hated the winters there.
Snow is fun until you have to drive in it. :D
[snip]
>And the jobs.
>
>That was the final straw. The Virginia economy sucks when it comes to high
>tech IT positions and not Walmart greeter or fast-food jobs. If you actually
>want to make more than $12/hour, God forbid, good luck looking for something
>in gold old Virginia. You won't find it, unless you are talking about the
>extremely expensive and stressed-out Alexandria/Fairfax/Reston/etc region that
>is a part of a different universe altogether and is more apt to be a part of
>Maryland or something. Try 1 bedroom apartments for $1200.
Indeed. This is one of the reasons I want to leave nova when I get the
chance -- problem is, I'd run into exactly the same job-availability
problems as you mention below if I went somewhere else in VA. Housing costs
would force me to live somewhere like Warrenton or Stafford, and that's a
commute I don't want (seeing that I already commute 25 miles one way to
Arlington, but more on this below.)
>I was looking for a job in Virginia and I could never find one. I actually
>ended up working at shitty fast-food places when I was there simply because
>I could not find anything better, and I had problems getting even that.
>Virginia Employment Comission or whatever it is called was utterly useless.
>God am I glad I got out and increased my salary by an order of a magnitude.
>Had I stayed, I would have moved up to $8.60/hour, or even $10. Nah.
Yup...the further out from nova (or perhaps charlottesville or hampton
roads) you are, the less computer jobs there are. The profession, at this
point, kinda ties you to the big, expensive cities, if you live on the
eastern seaboard anyways. I've never been out west or really researched it,
so I can't say there.
>And the traffic in NOVA that rivals that of Silicon valley or Denver. The
>Beltway is just crazy, and unenforced. Everyone goes 20 MPH over the speed
>limit and if you don't, you get crushed. The cops gave up enforcing it a long
>time ago. It is terribly overloaded since the 70's.
Indeed again. I remember my parents not wanting to use I-395 through
Arlington and Alexandria and/or the beltway at certain times as far back as
about 1981. As for actually driving it, I don't have any qualms about doing
75 in a 55 zone, but the sheer volume of everything is astounding. It's
mainly because developers are building up the western and southern suburbs
faster than the governments can build roads and put in public transportation
infrastructure, and now that they're (finally) trying to make up for 30
years of short-sightedness, things are only getting worse. Go see
www.springfieldinterchange.com or search for stuff on the Wilson bridge on
washingtonpost.com to see what I mean.
Metrorail is a good idea, but it's expensive and time-consuming to build,
and the developers changed things out from under WMATA and possibly MWCOG as
soon as places like Centreville, Chantilly, and (yes) Manassas started
getting built up. Too little, too late, and if they ever *do* get around to
building rail service out as far as centreville and dulles, I'll be
middle-aged by the time it opens. And even then, it won't be enough -- DC
may well have surpassed Los Angeles in traffic jams by then. (Heck, it's
about to *now*.)
>So there. I've been there, I've done it, I got the tee-shirt, I've walked the
>walk, I tried, I gave it a shot, it didn't work well, I capitulated, left for
>much greener pastures and I am not coming back. Most people who come there
>inevitably leave also. It was the worst period of my life and going elsewhere
>has enhanced my quality of life and improved my peace of mind *immeasurably*.
I'm still wondering what a good place to go to would be. I've always wanted
to just go tooling around on a sabbatical for like a year and see what's out
there, but alas, I haven't the money or the carte blanche to do that.
-lee
PS: where are you at now?
--
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Lee Cremeans -- Manassas, VA, USA (WakkyMouse on WTnet) |
| lcre...@erols.com | http://wakky.dyndns.org/~lee |
DonHCVT
Iowa, where I live now, he makes Virginia sound like a damn nice place to live!
Actually, my wife and I just returned from a nice, long vacation in Virginia
and we liked it so much we're considering moving there. Now, don't get me
wrong, I grew up in Illinois, lived in Florida for 12 years, now here, I've
traveled all over the country (including Colorado--strange place--half the
state has beautiful mountains while the other half is the ugliest, sage
brush-filled piece of nothing I've ever seen. And Denver--what a mess! Dirty,
run down city with terrible traffic congestion and the air pollution that goes
with it) and Europe, so it's not like I'm naive or anything. We enjoyed the
state and the people--nicest people I've ever met. Also, every state in the
nation has ticks, including CO, so I find it hard to believe that he never saw
any before moving to VA. (Actually, ticks are more prevalent in areas with
short grass, such as suburban housing tracts, than in heavily wooded areas.)
Oh, and by the way, I'm a libertarian also.
Pete Plassmann
Pete
Bernhard Schopper wrote:
John Gilmer
DonHCVT <don...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990817003349...@ng-fu1.aol.com...
If you are a libertarian, we NEED you.
I suggest you rent for a year in the area you select. If you rent in a
"nice" neighborhood you may find that your landlord will likely give you a
good price if you want to buy.
VA does have bad traffic problems. ANY area where there are lots of jobs
has lots of traffic and you will find it easier to shop in the middle of the
week and stay home on Saturday.
Just curious: where in VA are you looking at in particular.
JLG
Hercu...@webtv.net
Icy Manipulator <il...@speakeasy.org> wrote:
>
> Virginia is the worst state I've lived in, I spent almost a decade there.
If you think that's bad, try spending a decade, or even a week, in Dayton,
TN. Dayton, TN is ok as long as your IQ is no higher than 60. But anything
higher than this is cause for immediate suspicion as far as the natives are
concerned. If your IQ is higher than 90, you're more than likely going to be
considered an arrogant snob. 110, and you'll probably be run out of town. 140
and above, and you'll more than likely be considered some kind of devil who's
anti-America and anti-God. Even somebody who only looks intelligent will
usually arouse these rednecks into a rabid frenzy.
Virginia sounds fairly tame by comparison. :-)
Robert
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Ilya
> I've lived in VA since 1979 (when I was 2 and a half). I always liked the
> city areas more, and when I lived in central VA from 1987-1992, I hated it
> (I still consider those the worst years of my life, but I won't go into that
> here.)
Oh, so we do have something in common.
>>For one thing, I could not find employment there during
>>summers when I was not in school since thousands of people were also competing
>>for the same shitty $5.25/hour jobs. And I certainly could not find employment
>>in my line of work. The few computer related jobs that I have seen in bigger
>>cities like Roanoke or Richmond are so ridiculosly below the going rates it is
>>not even funny. For instance, a junior programmer would get about $25K per
>>year in Roanoke while in other, decent states that would be more like 45K or
>>higher. (Actually, that $25K/year figure is unrealistic to begin with since
>>there are no such jobs in Roanoke). And the mid-level to senior-level IT
>>positions show an absolutely gigantic difference of almost orders of
>>magnitude. I had no idea until I got out and saw the real world. It just does
>>not pay well and in fact there are no high-tech jobs anywhere but in Reston/
>>Fairfax regions that are really expensive -- I have not lived there.
> I didn't have any trouble finding a job when I was looking, but you are
> right about NoVA being really expensive. If I wanted to live on my own, at
> this point I'd have to be making something like $50k/yr on salary. And even
> then, I'd probably need a roomie, if only to combat loneliness.
Right. . .
>>Go to any Virginia Walmart and you will see that the average person there just
>>doesn't look like he is working on a degree in Math.
> I'll agree here; Wal-Mart is about as white-trash as you can get. And they
> also tend to be unbelievably crowded (the Manassas one in particular).
Good observation. The overcrowded part is also true.
>>Oh, the damn weather. I patiently endured it for a long decade. Terrible,
>>uncomfortable, summers, high humidity, unbearably hot to be outside.
>>Especially in NOVA. I also lived near Richmond and it generally sucks during
>>summer. You got to have AC in your house and in your car or you will fry and
>>suffocate. During summers, it just wasn't fun to be outside. In fact, even at
>>night. It was horribly humid even at night. I've never seen that
>>elsewhere. Having moved out where the climate is very different, I am actually
>>even more amazed, I have a difficult time grasping that. But all I can say is
>>that I remember it as factually true, and several other people confirmed that
>>fact. Just recently I heard that the temperature hit 100+F.. Am I glad to be
>>out of there.
> Oh yeah. At the house out in the country, we didn't have central A/C. Fans
> were the things that kept us alive, at least until we got working air
> conditioners for some of the rooms there.
That's exactly what I am talking about. Believe it or not, not everyone had an
AC in Virginia.
>>And the winters. The terrible, cold winters. I would at least like some real
>>snow.. but no. The snow falls for maybe 3 days and then it all melts down and
>>that's all. NOVA was a lot more snowier than Souther VA but even there it
>>didn't stay very long. I hated the winters there.
> Snow is fun until you have to drive in it. :D
Good point. :)
>>I was looking for a job in Virginia and I could never find one. I actually
>>ended up working at shitty fast-food places when I was there simply because
>>I could not find anything better, and I had problems getting even that.
>>Virginia Employment Comission or whatever it is called was utterly useless.
>>God am I glad I got out and increased my salary by an order of a magnitude.
>>Had I stayed, I would have moved up to $8.60/hour, or even $10. Nah.
> Yup...the further out from nova (or perhaps charlottesville or hampton
> roads) you are, the less computer jobs there are. The profession, at this
> point, kinda ties you to the big, expensive cities, if you live on the
> eastern seaboard anyways. I've never been out west or really researched it,
> so I can't say there.
Right. Go west. You will never regret it.
>>And the traffic in NOVA that rivals that of Silicon valley or Denver. The
>>Beltway is just crazy, and unenforced. Everyone goes 20 MPH over the speed
>>limit and if you don't, you get crushed. The cops gave up enforcing it a long
>>time ago. It is terribly overloaded since the 70's.
> Indeed again. I remember my parents not wanting to use I-395 through
> Arlington and Alexandria and/or the beltway at certain times as far back as
> about 1981. As for actually driving it, I don't have any qualms about doing
> 75 in a 55 zone, but the sheer volume of everything is astounding. It's
> mainly because developers are building up the western and southern suburbs
> faster than the governments can build roads and put in public transportation
> infrastructure, and now that they're (finally) trying to make up for 30
> years of short-sightedness, things are only getting worse. Go see
> www.springfieldinterchange.com or search for stuff on the Wilson bridge on
> washingtonpost.com to see what I mean.
That's a good point, thanks for sharing.
> Metrorail is a good idea, but it's expensive and time-consuming to build,
> and the developers changed things out from under WMATA and possibly MWCOG as
> soon as places like Centreville, Chantilly, and (yes) Manassas started
> getting built up. Too little, too late, and if they ever *do* get around to
> building rail service out as far as centreville and dulles, I'll be
> middle-aged by the time it opens. And even then, it won't be enough -- DC
> may well have surpassed Los Angeles in traffic jams by then. (Heck, it's
> about to *now*.)
Yep. Have seen it.
>>So there. I've been there, I've done it, I got the tee-shirt, I've walked the
>>walk, I tried, I gave it a shot, it didn't work well, I capitulated, left for
>>much greener pastures and I am not coming back. Most people who come there
>>inevitably leave also. It was the worst period of my life and going elsewhere
>>has enhanced my quality of life and improved my peace of mind *immeasurably*.
> I'm still wondering what a good place to go to would be. I've always wanted
> to just go tooling around on a sabbatical for like a year and see what's out
> there, but alas, I haven't the money or the carte blanche to do that.
I recommend Northwest or Colorado. Both expensive, but Denver has a ton of
high tech IT jobs. You will never be without work, that's for sure.
Tim Tuttle
Where in the hell is Dayton, TN? It can't be any worse than
Surgoinsville, TN!
I love the scenery in Virginia. I hate the 8.5% sales tax in Tennessee.
I live in neither state. But I'd prefer Virginia.
T. Tuttle
Hercu...@webtv.net
creek...@aol.com (CreekCat62) wrote:
> Dayton is about 40 miles north of Chattanooga on Hwy. 27, home of the famous
> Scopes Trial, better known as The Monkey Trial.
>
That's right. And creationism is probably what attracted all the worst
rednecks. :-)
Robert
> rodney elmore
Sean
areas of complete morons, Dayton is no worse or better than some of the backwoods
towns in Eastrn Va.
Ive been to Dayton many times, my best friend grew up there, and yes the vast
majority is very redneck.
Ive lived in 10 states over the years, grew up in Morgantown, WV and Pittsburg,
PA, I now live in Chattanooga, TN .. wouldnt live anywhere else!
Tim Tuttle wrote:
> Hercu...@webtv.net wrote:
> >
> > In article <rr4kls...@corp.supernews.com>,
> > Icy Manipulator <il...@speakeasy.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Virginia is the worst state I've lived in, I spent almost a decade there.
> >
> > If you think that's bad, try spending a decade, or even a week, in Dayton,
> > TN. Dayton, TN is ok as long as your IQ is no higher than 60. But anything
> > higher than this is cause for immediate suspicion as far as the natives are
> > concerned. If your IQ is higher than 90, you're more than likely going to be
> > considered an arrogant snob. 110, and you'll probably be run out of town. 140
> > and above, and you'll more than likely be considered some kind of devil who's
> > anti-America and anti-God. Even somebody who only looks intelligent will
> > usually arouse these rednecks into a rabid frenzy.
> >
> > Virginia sounds fairly tame by comparison. :-)
> >
> > Robert
>
> Where in the hell is Dayton, TN? It can't be any worse than
> Surgoinsville, TN!
>
> I love the scenery in Virginia. I hate the 8.5% sales tax in Tennessee.
> I live in neither state. But I'd prefer Virginia.
>
> T. Tuttle
--
Thanx,
Sean McDonald
Words to live by ! ;
Wanting people to listen ?? - You can't just tap them on the shoulder anymore. You
have to hit them with a sledgehammer. And then you'll notice you have their strict
attention
John Gilmer
Sean <gra...@vei.net> wrote in message news:37C3D292...@vei.net...
> Ive lived in both states, and when it comes to intellegence levels, both
have there
> areas of complete morons, Dayton is no worse or better than some of the
backwoods
> towns in Eastrn Va.
> Ive been to Dayton many times, my best friend grew up there, and yes the
vast
> majority is very redneck.
>
> Ive lived in 10 states over the years, grew up in Morgantown, WV and
Pittsburg,
> PA, I now live in Chattanooga, TN .. wouldnt live anywhere else!
Well, when you were growing up in "Pittsburg, PA" I guess no one told you it
is spelled PittsburgH.
JLG
Maria Rost Rublee
: On Thu, 12 Aug 1999 15:54:27 GMT, Ilya <il...@speakeasy.org> wrote:
:>Spinnaker3 <spinn...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
:>> Don't hold it back, tell us what you really think.
:>
:>
:>Don't worry, I won't disappoint you.
:>
: Why am I not surprised that the idiotic diatribe was from you?
: And here I thought you could only babble inanely about cars. Live and
: learn.
Hey!! :) My thoughts EXACTLY!
Maria
DonHCVT
We're looking very generally--someplace on the coast. We toured the area
between Richmond and VA Beach and decided we liked the Hampton/Newport News
area the best. Still not set, tho. We need to do more looking around.
Don