NoSQL databases - Riak or MongoDB

[Totally Objects]

Hi there.

I am currently trying to finish an Open University degree that I started back in the '70s. Eventually, I will have to create a project for the final module.

The current course is all about Database management and analysis. We are currently looking at NoSQL databases and I would like to try out one of these against some ideas I have for the project. I am wondering if anyone out there has any experience of using VAST against either Riak or MongoDB?

I can probably drive Riak from using HTTP gets and puts but MongoDB appears to need JavaScript. I would prefer to use Python, which has a MongoDB interface available. Again, does anyone have any thoughts on interfacing VAST with Python?

David

Totally Objects.

[Louis LaBrunda]

Hi Dave,

I know next to nothing about NoSQL databases like Riak or MongoDB and very little about Python.  I can read a little Python and know it is one of many derivatives of Smalltalk that looks like C.  Why anyone would want a language that reads like C is beyond me.  But enough of that.

I assume (I know, always trouble) that MongoDB has an API (DLLs) that Python calls to interface with it.  If that is the case it may not be much harder to make a direct interface from VA Smalltalk to those DLLs (like what Seth and I are doing with LibUSB) than it would be to make an interface to Python.  I think Python has more interfaces of this kind than VA Smalltalk does, so an interface to Python would be of some value BUT I would rather see more direct interfaces from VA Smalltalk and leave Python out of the picture.

Sorry, I'm not able to help but I hope you will give it some thought.

Lou

[Totally Objects]

Hi Lou. To be honest, I was only interested in MongoDB because I was having extreme difficulty building a Riak cluster on Amazon AWS so it was my 2nd chance, as it were. I now have Riak set up with a three instance cluster on AWS and I can save and retrieve objects (converted to JSON) using curl on my Mac terminal interface. 

I am having to use Python in my Open University course. It is used there because there are some natty notebooks within which one can execute Python to provide coding answers to the assignments. Python also has a very rich module called Pandas which is great for importing and analysing data. My idea was to call out to Python and then use the built in Python Riak interface to do the actual work.

I think, however, that the best way would be to use the http directly from VAST.  To save into the Riak database you just use an http PUT and to retrieve is via an http GET. If I can't do this then Matt surely will - grin.

The pressure is off a bit now that I can curl into the db as I can put a sniffer on the line and mimic the output.

David

[Sebastian Heidbrink]

Hi David,

There ware just two project I am aware of that connect Smalltalk to Python.

Both are not available for VAST and you would have to do a port. I could help you if you hit barriers there.

https://github.com/kilon/Ephestos

and

OpenQwaq has a module with a Python connector. Some info here:

https://squeakingalong.wordpress.com/2011/05/04/openqwaq-python-integration/

I once implemented a prototype including, Amber, Pharo and MongoDB. That was pretty straight forward implementation.

I think you can have a look into the SmalltalkHub.com sources to have an example for a Smalltalk MongoDB implementation.

The two Smalltalk to MongoDB interface implementations I can recommend are

https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Books/job/EnterprisePharoBook/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/book-result/Voyage/Voyage.pdf

and

https://github.com/sebastianconcept/Mapless

Again,... not available for VAST, yet.

Once I moved my prototype to Gemstone, I gain so much speed up that I would not touch such MongoDB based implementation anymore. The JSON transfer between Smalltalk and MongoDB eats up quite a lot of resources.

Nevertheless VAST absolutely needs a solution for easy DB access or OR mapping framework for rapid prototyping. I doubt a VAST newcomer will be able to figure out on his own on how to get started quickly.

As for Riak you could have a look here:

http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~gokr/Phriak

I hope that gives you some based for further research.

Good luck!

Sebastian

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[Richard Sargent]

On Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 4:23:03 AM UTC-7, Totally Objects wrote:

Hi there.

I am currently trying to finish an Open University degree that I started back in the '70s. Eventually, I will have to create a project for the final module.

The current course is all about Database management and analysis. We are currently looking at NoSQL databases and I would like to try out one of these against some ideas I have for the project. I am wondering if anyone out there has any experience of using VAST against either Riak or MongoDB?

Hi David,
Just to be "obnoxious", why not use GemStone? Are there constraints on your project that force your choice of database, python, etc.?

 

[Totally Objects]

I think that if I go to the tutors, I will have enough difficulty selling them on Smalltalk - as the courses are all built aroundPython and Jypiter notebooks, let alone using a database that is outside the courses as well. Riak is perfect because we are studying it. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

On Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 12:23:03 PM UTC+1, Totally Objects wrote:

[Totally Objects]

I managed to get to grips with the http interface to Riak so I have left all ideas of Python behind. It is all working now. I just need to get the socket stuff moved from our own SocketSet onto WinHttp.

Thanks for the info, though.

On Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 12:23:03 PM UTC+1, Totally Objects wrote:

[Totally Objects]

I now have everything working from SstHttpClient through Seaside as a web front end so I am very happy! I might even package it up for general use if there ever was any one wanting to use Riak with VAST.

David

On Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 12:23:03 PM UTC+1, Totally Objects wrote: