SFTP revisited

[Heather Kirk]

Hey there...

I am in need of an SFTP solution as part of my application, on order to implement

a new spectacles lab interface.

I did search the forum, but the latest reference (October 2023) suggested

that SFTP has (at least at that time) not been added to VAST.

Can you let me know if that has changed?

If not, does anyone have an SFTP solution they wouldn't mind me using?

Thank you, in advance, for any and all responses...

Regards,

Heather Kirk

SpinnakerWare Inc.

[Heather Kirk]

As an interesting added tidbit of information, when I ask Gemini to provide me some code

in VAST, it references  AbtSshSftpClient, which does not appear to exist.

But it did make me think that it likely got that from somewhere....perhaps an answer exists....

Heather

[Richard Sargent]

Hi Heather, AI's tend to make things up such that they look familiar and plausible. (It's their nature.)

By using the Application Editions browser and the View menu options to filter for *ftp*, I found SstFtpClient in SstFtpSslCommunications.

It has methods that talk about using TLS, so just possibly it supports both secure and regular FTP.

You will still have a good bit of work to determine if that will address your needs and how to actually use it. There might even be documentation in the VAST Web Information Center.

Good luck!

[Wayne Johnston]

I had found that FTPS stuff, but I thought that is different than SFTP.

[Heather Kirk]

Thank you for your message, Richard.

Unfortunately, Wayne is correct.  
The  SstFtpClient code is for FTPS, which is just an extension of FTP...stilll using 2 ports.

with TLS/SSL.

SFTP, on the other hand, uses SSH over a single port, and is basically a brand new protocol.

I have been running into things that require SFTP, and keep having to turn them down as possible

features for my system, because I can't figure out how to add it.

Just recently, I was approached by Zeiss, to add a really great feature, but they require SFTP for the

file transfer.

I gather SFTP is rapidly becoming the new defacto standard.  So, if there is currently no support for that,

is it something that might be investigated for a future version? (ideally near future)

I am currently investigating ways to use some third party solution, but this would obviously be less secure,

and may even be rejected by Zeiss.

If anyone has any thouts/experiences/suggestions, they would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks, all.....

Heather Kirk

SpinnakerWare Inc.

[Marcus Wagner]

Hi

there are two different protocols named SFTP.

First RFC 913, but I guess, this is not the one of interest here.

The second SFTP protocol (over secure shell with 1 port) was once proposed as a draft which did not realize as of 2007.

This one is still supported by Putty and OpenSSH (and elsewhere).

However it is not an offical standard.

So far as I know there is no active support provided in VAST (this area is not in my focus).

As a quick solution: first determine and select a product which is able to manage the transfer and can be controlled from the ourside.

Second, attempt to control this program out of VAST, e.g. to start is as external program with parameters to achieve the transfer, via given artefacts in VAST to control external programs.

The other solution: implement this draft which has expired 20 years ago and risk the cost of investment in it.

The basics to achieve that in VAST are definitively given, but you have to write, trest and maintain a new app.

Such an app would be based on a existing solid support of required framework fundamentals.

Kind regards

M

[Heather Kirk]

Thank you, Marcus.
I too was thinking about using a third party app that has an exposed interface, or can be run as an external program.
This has it's own issues, though, so I was really hoping there would be a native solution in VAST.

I did not realize that this framework was 20 years old.
But all of my research suggests that this is replacing FTP as the new standard.
I am still hopeful that Instantiations might look into adding this at some point.

I appreciate the response, and information, Marcus!

Best Regards,

Heather

[Marcus Wagner]

Hi Heather,

you are welcome.

If you look at the content of the draft, my personal suspicions and thoughts about reasons why the draft did not realize,.

Its concept was to provide an alternate to FTP IN secure shells. 

That means, it does NOT cover anything about security!

It relies on a given security and cares about file transfer in such an environment: 

it defines a set of commands and its answers, to sketch out supported actions for a file transfer under the assumption, security is already given and provided elsewhere.

So name is irretating: SFTP means ... transfer "in a given secure protocol".

It is like you are in need of a car to travel into holidays. 

But the answer you get is a set of regulations to be obeyed how you can reach a destination. 

By car, bike, railway, plane or by foot, but only after you decided the transportation means before, elsewhere.

And as far as I remember, it does also not cover anything related to the kernel of a protocol, how a communication between two sites is to be organized.

It saying if you send me an order (...?) you will get an answer containing (!).

Details again are left elsewhere. 

For fairness: it is important that the missing details are specified in the secure shell, SSH.

Anything mentioning the details would have meant a duplication of other standards (a no-go).

So to be applied, you have first to establish a secure shell between two sites,

given that you can then apply this way (or an alternative) to exchange s.th.

Can you establish a SSH in your scenario first? 

If yes, than SFTP is a way to make use of that to transfer contents in it.

[if no ... i will leave that out].

Kind regards

M

[vcost...@gmail.com]

Hello, It seems like a 3rd party library is the way to go because also languages like Java and Python do not have native support for SFTP, AFAIK. They both rely on external libs.

[Joachim Tuchel]

My personal favorite for cases where VAST provided libraries don't support a protocol or the support is dated or incompleted is curl.

It's simple to call using VAST's excellent external process feature, fantastically documented, rocket proof, responsibly maintained and even pre-installed on almost every OS out there.

Mybe this is a good starting point: https://everything.curl.dev/usingcurl/ssh/index.html

I haven't used it for SFTP, but fo other purposes and am on the fence of using it for SMTP

Joachim