MathSoc on-line exam bank
Mehrdad
how knows why none of the on-line exams in the math soc exam bank do not
open?
Thanks
Prabhakar Ragde
> how knows why none of the on-line exams in the math soc exam bank do not
> open?
They don't open for me either. But I know what's in the F01 exams; I
helped write them. If it's any consolation, these exams are not good
ones from which to study. F01 was the first time we ran the revised
course with the current textbook. The exam was fairly conservative,
because we were still getting used to the material. The instructors
who came after us in W02 did not participate in the redesign, but
they, too, were teaching the course for the first time. I think these
exams were easier than the exams that have been used since, and they
have given the wrong impression to students who have downloaded them
in subsequent terms. The last time I taught 251, in W04, some students
were quite vocal on the newsgroup about how the exam didn't look like
the ones in the Exam Bank, and didn't care for my explanations.
I know it goes against what passes for conventional wisdom among
students, but you are better off not studying based on old exams. Your
best bet for doing well on your exam lies in a thorough understanding
of the material, so that you can move beyond shallow retreads of
assignment questions. Make up your own exams, and exchange them with
fellow students. Think about what skills you have exercised during the
term. Look at the various designs, and see what might change if you
add new capabilities, or try to use new functional units. Your
instructors have designed questions that will test your ability to
think about the concepts covered; your studying should ensure that,
prior to the exam, you do the same. --PR
--
Prabhakar Ragde plr...@uwaterloo.ca
Professor, School of Computer Science DC 1314, (519)888-4567,x4660
Faculty of Mathematics Waterloo, Ontario CANADA N2L 3G1
University of Waterloo http://db.uwaterloo.ca/~plragde
Jeremy Chi-Hin Wong
this is somewhat offtopic, but I have a question regarding the final mark
calculation:
for many CS courses (well, all of the CS courses I've taken at UW at
least), the final mark takes the test/exam mark if the student fails the
final. This is a way of making sure that the students who depend on others
for assignment will get what they deserve in the end. However, it is
different for this course...we get the lower mark either way. And many may
feel like we're being punished either way. So what is the motivation for
this final mark calculation?
For many people, I suspect, the assignment marks will not count towards
the final mark.
Prabhakar Ragde
> for many CS courses (well, all of the CS courses I've taken at UW at
> least), the final mark takes the test/exam mark if the student fails the
> final. This is a way of making sure that the students who depend on others
> for assignment will get what they deserve in the end. However, it is
> different for this course...we get the lower mark either way. And many may
> feel like we're being punished either way. So what is the motivation for
> this final mark calculation?
I had nothing to do with the marking scheme, but maybe playing "Let's
Design a Marking Scheme" will help. The final grade should reflect the
ability to exercise skills and act on knowledge learned in the
course. Furthermore, because it is an individual credit counting
towards an individual credential (a degree), it should represent what
the individual student can do. There's no feasible way of ensuring
that students do their own work on assignments, which seems to
indicate that they should be considered preparatory work for some
other form of assessment. If assignments have no direct impact on the
final grade, though, students will not do them, and will do much more
poorly in the exams as a result. Finally, any scheme proposed has to
be logistically possible with the resources we have (instructor time
to design assessments, instructor, tutor, and TA time to mark
them). So: what would you suggest?
(As an aside, what do you think of the CS 241 policy of Unix
assignments counting for 0% if done successfully and -4% if not? Is
that also a "punishment"?)
Ma...@uwaterloo.ca
> Jeremy Chi-Hin Wong <jc2...@student.cs.uwaterloo.ca> writes:
>
> > for many CS courses (well, all of the CS courses I've taken at UW at
> > least), the final mark takes the test/exam mark if the student fails the
> > final. This is a way of making sure that the students who depend on others
> > for assignment will get what they deserve in the end. However, it is
> > different for this course...we get the lower mark either way. And many may
> > feel like we're being punished either way. So what is the motivation for
> > this final mark calculation?
>
> I had nothing to do with the marking scheme, but maybe playing "Let's
> Design a Marking Scheme" will help. The final grade should reflect the
> ability to exercise skills and act on knowledge learned in the
> course. Furthermore, because it is an individual credit counting
> towards an individual credential (a degree), it should represent what
> the individual student can do. There's no feasible way of ensuring
> that students do their own work on assignments, which seems to
> indicate that they should be considered preparatory work for some
> other form of assessment. If assignments have no direct impact on the
> final grade, though, students will not do them, and will do much more
> poorly in the exams as a result. Finally, any scheme proposed has to
> be logistically possible with the resources we have (instructor time
> to design assessments, instructor, tutor, and TA time to mark
> them). So: what would you suggest?
Every year we (both instructors and students) have this debate... Everyone
has a different philospophy, but as Prabhakar says, we really want some way to
ensure students' success on the midterm and final. This course is not very
difficult, but it is easy to have a false sense of security if you haven't
done (and understood) the assignments. This is why I encourage students to
look closely at the solutions and come to office hours if they need help.
Jeremy Chi-Hin Wong
On Sun, 3 Apr 2005, Prabhakar Ragde wrote:
> There's no feasible way of ensuring
> that students do their own work on assignments, which seems to
> indicate that they should be considered preparatory work for some
> other form of assessment. If assignments have no direct impact on the
> final grade, though, students will not do them, and will do much more
> poorly in the exams as a result. Finally, any scheme proposed has to
> be logistically possible with the resources we have (instructor time
> to design assessments, instructor, tutor, and TA time to mark
> them). So: what would you suggest?
>
To be quite honest I wouldn't be able to suggest a scheme that is
necessarily better or fair...because there would always be students who
feel overwhelmed while others feel not challenged enough. I personally
feel that the marking scheme in the past CS courses are quite adequate in
motivating students. Most students do understand why assignments would not
count if they fail the exams - it indicates that they didn't fully
understand the material when they were doing the assignments (whether that
is true, only the student knows). By now we should have understood that
marking scheme and should be aware of its consequences...but if we did
well on assignments and didn't fail the exam, our efforts on the
assignments would pay off. Let's say we did well on assignments but not by
through our own efforts, and we still managed to pull off a good exam
mark somehow, those assignment marks would be a reward assuming we HAVE
learned something IN THE END. But by relying on others for assignments,
the students are making big gambles...and they suffer the consequences if
they lose this gamble. But for those who put effort on the assignments but
choke under pressure of the exam, they "suffer" with those who didnt do
their own assignments, because regardless, the assignment marks won't
count. So in short...in a way, this marking scheme targets students who do
not do their own assignments AND those who choke on the exams. That is
just something to consider...it doesn't dramatically affect our marks, but
it changes the students' mentality in the course and attitude towards
assignments. Logistically it CAN stay the same...the biggest difference
is deciding when the students end up with the lower mark - always or only
when they fail the exam.
> (As an aside, what do you think of the CS 241 policy of
Unix > assignments counting for 0% if done successfully and -4% if not? Is
> that also a "punishment"?)
>
I can see how the two systems are similar, but the nature of the
assignments are a bit different. Personally I feel that the CS241 Unix
assignments were a lot easier than the CS251 assignments...they indeed
could all be completed by the end of the third week. If one fails to
complete those unix assignments, it's most likely that the student is lazy
(even if you didn't understand, you have plenty of time to ask at the
beginning of the course). CS251 assignments are far tougher and are worth
2% each which may not even count in the end. From a certain perspective,
it actually makes more sense for a student to NOT want to do the CS251
assignment. I think many students who completed the unix assignments can
understand why it's sort of "4% that we don't get" because the assignments
are not that hard. Even though CS241's A5 is so tough yet worth 5.75%
(which is worth less than 6 questions on an ECON101 midterm, to put into
perspective) students still try their best on it because 1) it is
practical learning experience (same can be said for CS251 assignments) but
2) it WILL count unless the final exam is a failure. The sad reality is
that students find security in knowing which marks count, but not so much
in what they learned (because there's no standard way of knowing whether
what they learned will be enough for the final exam).
Yin Zhao
one slip) to get 100% are just no fun :) Under the premise that such a
students knows at least 98% of the material, that is (I am in no way
implying this for myself -- and I do not claim to know even 90% of the
course material either). And unfortunately most CS courses are designed
to be this way (impossible to get 100%).
Oh btw, I know Troy will kill me for saying this, but I heard a RUMOUR
(whom the person had personal experience) that for those UNIX
assignments all you need to do is 'touch' those files (we'll leave it as
that, just ignore this if you dont know what I mean ;). I have NOT
tried this for myself, I earned those 0% fair and square.
In anycase, you'll get those 0% if you tried (even if you didnt get some
correct) where as in this course you get punished. But overall, the
marking scheme isnt too bad (in my opinion) but in some instances the
TA does a poor job of marking your assignments. and it doesnt help when
your assignments disappear from the hand-out boxes either.
CS 251 Tutor
is why I've been pretty quiet about this one.
This comment, however, I do have some control over, and I recognize it as
being a problem:
>but in some instances the
>TA does a poor job of marking your assignments. and it doesnt help when
>your assignments disappear from the hand-out boxes either.
I'm one person who gets to see first hand the amount of effort everyone
put into these, and I do believe it is important for you to receive all
the marks you deserve for that effort (for motivational purposes as well,
even if it doesn't have a big impact on your final mark).
I therefore strongly encourage all of you to let me know if the one of
the TAs or myself have marked anything incorrectly on any of your assignments.
If you're unable to track me down, you can always hand them back in with a
note on top.
I'm planning on returning the assignment fives at the review sessions, and
putting any remaining ones into the hand back boxes. This will hopefully
cut down on the number that are disappearing.
Dave
Prabhakar Ragde
> Courses in which it is impossible or almost impossible (by that I mean
> one slip) to get 100% are just no fun :) Under the premise that such a
> students knows at least 98% of the material, that is (I am in no way
> implying this for myself -- and I do not claim to know even 90% of the
> course material either). And unfortunately most CS courses are designed
> to be this way (impossible to get 100%).
You have to distinguish between the design of the course and the
design of the assessment tools. I have a reputation for tough
assignments and exams, and yet I have given out 100% grades in just
about every undergraduate course I have taught. Do you mean that it is
impossible for you personally to get 100%? That's a different matter. --PR
Prabhakar Ragde
> So in short...in a way, this marking scheme targets students who do
> not do their own assignments AND those who choke on the exams. That is
> just something to consider...it doesn't dramatically affect our marks, but
> it changes the students' mentality in the course and attitude towards
> assignments. Logistically it CAN stay the same...the biggest difference
> is deciding when the students end up with the lower mark - always or only
> when they fail the exam.
Isn't "failing the exam" somewhat of an arbitrary distinction, though?
If a student gets 100% on assignments but 50% on the final, something
is clearly wrong, and yet under your proposed scheme nothing would be
done. Perhaps the root of the problem is the inability of any scheme
based on current assessment practices to distinguish between the two
situations you describe, one being "student does own assignments but
`chokes' on exam" and one being "student gets help on assignments and
can't maintain same level on final". Personally, I think the latter
situation is more common than the former, but there's no way to know
for sure.
I still think there's a disconnection if you insist that you're being
punished unless your assignments count for a guaranteed fraction of
your final grade. You understand on an intellectual level that
assignments are preparation for exams, but on an emotional level
you're still denying this to some extent. --PR
CS 251 Tutor
Now, as Prabhakar warned, you may not want to gage what our exam will be
like based on these. Nevertheless, I do believe the last two exams on
there would be worthwhile to go through as review.
Dave
Yin Zhao
given out 100% grades in just about every undergraduate course I have
taught.
That is what I meant (I am stating this in general, this is NOT about
what mark I should get). I would like to see that in every course. To
me, this is an indication of top students getting well-deserved marks.
But of course, I have no way of knowing what's going on behind the
scenes and how many ppl (if any) got high marks or not.
Yin Zhao
students an incentive to work hard.
Prabhakar Ragde
> knowing that it is possible to get high-marks in a course gives good
> students an incentive to work hard.
Sure. But I don't see it as being impossible in 251. It's a relatively
straightforward course from the point of view of intellectual content;
there isn't a lot of deep math or complexity. If you put in your time
effectively, you'll do all right.
You can see the "min" in the mark calculation as working like a
Boolean "and": in order to get a good mark, you have to do well in
assignments AND do well on exams. That doesn't strike me as
unreasonable. --PR