Pin Switch Matrix Board

[Joseph Blevins]

Does anyone know if https://bmamps.com/v01/matrix-pin-switch-board-for-utracer/ was ever made open source or where I might be able to get one.

[Big Josh]

It's not open source, and they're currently not available. He might be selling them in the future, but I don't know his plans currently.

On Mon, Nov 4, 2024 at 9:21 PM Joseph Blevins <josephbl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Does anyone know if https://bmamps.com/v01/matrix-pin-switch-board-for-utracer/ was ever made open source or where I might be able to get one.

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[A Clarke]

This uses a database of tubes - Is there a database publicly available for this to use? 

I would like repurpose it for my standard manual pin board. Maybe at some stage I can make something more automatic myself

I know there is one included in utMax - but their default database only has a small collection of tubes - none I own (mostly European).

Thanks.

[Davo]

You can make your own presets in the uTmax and the matrix is linked to the uTmax

And you can control it with a Script

Op 5 nov 2024 om 12:58 heeft A Clarke <ambr...@gmail.com> het volgende geschreven:

This uses a database of tubes - Is there a database publicly available for this to use? 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/utracer/a5bc7311-b444-4b73-8157-e0c0a802994cn%40googlegroups.com.

[Ambrose Clarke]

Thanks - as I said though - the uTmax database is very small - has anyone made data publicly available for uTracer - for a large and varied number of tubes.

I would like to bring my uTracer3+ to our vintage radio meetup and have people test their valves - having a premade list/spreadsheet/database, of the pins and suitable voltages,

so I'm not expecting them lookup individual data sheets on the night, would be really helpful.

Something like what people have assembled for simpler Tube Testers - eg. the Precision 910 
http://oldradios.50webs.com/precision/900/P900_series.pdf

If nothing like that exists for uTracer - I was considering using that spreadsheet as a starting point for making such a database for uTracer... 

That link above does contain, embedded in the data, a lot of the information that could be extracted - like pins and grid voltages etc for hundreds of tubes..

But would be great if a spreadsheet for uTracer already exists...

.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/utracer/1B15D70C-8C1B-4D99-9324-25BE15428F05%40gmail.com.

[Gruber, Heimo - DI]

Hi, I'd recommend the database of roetest, which contains all relevant information for testing a huge number of tubes. It can be used offline on a Win / Mac platform and it is free for personal use.

I have got a collection of setup files for typical radio tubes. I can share them.

Heimo Gruber

---

From: utr...@googlegroups.com <utr...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Ambrose Clarke <ambr...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2024 4:10:32 PM
To: utr...@googlegroups.com <utr...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Pin Switch Matrix Board

 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/utracer/CAHq4Oj70dZ4J8816y%3D7Y62GZvvD4LMDmVaSW29vJKyFpn26dwQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Big Josh]

It's the same database. It uses the data file from utMax to assign the pins. You can add whatever tubes you want, and assign the pins yourself for use with utMax.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/utracer/a5bc7311-b444-4b73-8157-e0c0a802994cn%40googlegroups.com.

[Davo]

Hi Heimo,

That sounds interesting!

I didn’t know that you could use the database from roetest…

I never tried also..

Roetest is the best tester on the market though!

The tube recognition function is very cool

But it’s an very expensive tester 

But in what format is that database?

Op 5 nov 2024 om 19:15 heeft Big Josh <shif...@gmail.com> het volgende geschreven:



To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/utracer/CABi0_%2BODDgAe8y%2Boc_RQUFu7%2BFdeQ0KVAA6BwePUmR1779Y%3DYw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Gruber, Heimo - DI]

The roetest database has its own application. Easy to download & install. Give it a try and you will see

Heimo Gruber

---

From: utr...@googlegroups.com <utr...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Davo <djda...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2024 7:29:53 PM

To: utr...@googlegroups.com <utr...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Pin Switch Matrix Board

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/utracer/56B1E9FB-B448-4C58-9600-C7AD7E28BC91%40gmail.com.

[Big Josh]

roetest isn't all that exciting. Resolution is orders of magnitude worse than uTracer or FUtracer. Also maxes out at 300mA. The only thing I liked about it was the modular design for the tube sockets, but Nick's matrix board is cooler. The socket board for the FUtracer is also better if those sockets are all you need (you can still make adapters too).

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/utracer/56B1E9FB-B448-4C58-9600-C7AD7E28BC91%40gmail.com.

[Never Mind]

Josh wrote:" Resolution is orders of magnitude worse than uTracer or FUtracer"

I looked at the web site and did not see that the Resolution worse than uTracer or FUtrace.

Roetest  resolution actually seems pretty good with Va for example specified at 0.1V a fair bit better than the utracer3.

The Roetest seems far more complex with a lot of POT adjustments. 

That complexity does not seems to make it a good DIY build like a utracer.

I did not see a schematic diagram. That would be interesting to review.

I wonder about the cost as well. Did not see pricing on the WEB site although my German is pretty close to zero so I could have missed it.

Ronald's utracers have their issues and limitations however you get a huge amount of bang for your hard earned dollars with a utracer.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Bob

[Davo]

Hi Bob,

I just looked it up, but the partnumber,

And I saw it’s not a 25ppm but a 50ppm

Partnumber: MF02SFF4703A10

But anyway it gave me an improvement ;)

Noticeable with the calibration setup.

The coolest feature of the roestest is the tube recognition function!

If a tube has lost it’s markings it sometimes can be a hassle to ID the tube.

Most of the recognition is done bij measuring the the heater, and comparing it with the database files..

As far as I know, but I didn’t download a-lot of research about it…

Quite innovative feature though!

Grtz Dave

Op 6 nov 2024 om 02:25 heeft Never Mind <bobblue...@gmail.com> het volgende geschreven:



To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/utracer/9a0ef04a-3f0f-4c09-a96e-2598dc7db469n%40googlegroups.com.

[Big Josh]

Unless they changed something, the roetest resolution is only 0.1mA compared to 0.002mA or better.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/utracer/9a0ef04a-3f0f-4c09-a96e-2598dc7db469n%40googlegroups.com.

[Joseph Blevins]

I was just hoping it was open source. Would like to see an open source firmware for uTracer as well. Just debating if I rather just put effort into building a roetest instead of building a board  for uTracer. The cost of the Roetest will be around $1800-$2000 plus the 80-100 hours of build time. Roetest also has a feature to help with identify unmarked tubes as many other useful features. There is always the Bitmatic that is around $4k+. At that price point building a relay matrix for the uTracer might be the better option. With all the work that Ronald has shared while developing uTracer is a wonderful thing to see and build a community around.

[Big Josh]

You can also get a fully built FUtracer for $1200 in a pro enclosure with a socket board (primarily aimed at guitar/audio tubes).

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/utracer/12594fa1-0758-435a-8148-0858b570169en%40googlegroups.com.

[Davo]

$1200 That’s a ridiculous price!

The uTracer costs $230 inc. Shipping.

You get a life time free repair guarantee & support (Excl shipping & parts costs) 

+ Very detailed building plan (fun to do)

Parts for the enclosure are very cheap…

*many mods and extensions are available

*Different Gui’s

*Huge community 

Just my 2 cents

Op 8 nov 2024 om 05:26 heeft Big Josh <shif...@gmail.com> het volgende geschreven:



To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/utracer/CABi0_%2BOUawmLoo3Sn6nDjwHDz4Js5BpKT%3D3yRCqzC9vKAxL06A%40mail.gmail.com.

[Ambrose Clarke]



Good suggestion for a database - been playing about with the RoeTest software- and yes - you can launch the included application "RoeTestDatenbank.exe", and without any hardware there is a UI there with a full database of over 20 thousand tubes.

Most of the pinouts and volt ranges are there. Having the photos of the most common ones and photos of all the sockets is a nice extra. Very nice.

The identify vacuum tube sounds a brilliant feature too… wonder if something like that could be implemented in uTracer?

.

On Tue, Nov 5, 2024 at 6:03 PM Gruber, Heimo - DI <H.Gr...@riskexperts.at> wrote:

Hi, I'd recommend the database of roetest, which contains all relevant information for testing a huge number of tubes. It can be used offline on a Win / Mac platform and it is free for personal use.

I have got a collection of setup files for typical radio tubes. I can share them.

Heimo Gruber

---

From: utr...@googlegroups.com <utr...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Ambrose Clarke <ambr...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2024 4:10:32 PM

To: utr...@googlegroups.com <utr...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Pin Switch Matrix Board

Thanks - as I said though - the uTmax database is very small - has anyone made data publicly available for uTracer - for a large and varied number of tubes.

I would like to bring my uTracer3+ to our vintage radio meetup and have people test their valves - having a premade list/spreadsheet/database, of the pins and suitable voltages,

so I'm not expecting them lookup individual data sheets on the night, would be really helpful.

Something like what people have assembled for simpler Tube Testers - eg. the Precision 910 
http://oldradios.50webs.com/precision/900/P900_series.pdf

If nothing like that exists for uTracer - I was considering using that spreadsheet as a starting point for making such a database for uTracer... 

That link above does contain, embedded in the data, a lot of the information that could be extracted - like pins and grid voltages etc for hundreds of tubes..

But would be great if a spreadsheet for uTracer already exists...

.

On Tue, Nov 5, 2024 at 12:03 PM Davo <djda...@gmail.com> wrote:

You can make your own presets in the uTmax and the matrix is linked to the uTmax

And you can control it with a Script

Op 5 nov 2024 om 12:58 heeft A Clarke <ambr...@gmail.com> het volgende geschreven:

This uses a database of tubes - Is there a database publicly available for this to use? 

I would like repurpose it for my standard manual pin board. Maybe at some stage I can make something more automatic myself

I know there is one included in utMax - but their default database only has a small collection of tubes - none I own (mostly European).

Thanks.

On Tuesday 5 November 2024 at 02:47:25 UTC Josh wrote:

It's not open source, and they're currently not available. He might be selling them in the future, but I don't know his plans currently.

On Mon, Nov 4, 2024 at 9:21 PM Joseph Blevins <josephbl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Does anyone know if https://bmamps.com/v01/matrix-pin-switch-board-for-utracer/ was ever made open source or where I might be able to get one.

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[Davo]

Ii haven’t got time to check out the program, but it looks promising 

Hopefully this weekend, but I’m running short on time this week…

The tube recognition should have a matrix.

But not necessarily…

The database is a must for that

If al the info is in the database  a programmer can make it happen I guess 

And you gotta know how to process is actually done..

Op 8 nov 2024 om 08:06 heeft Ambrose Clarke <ambr...@gmail.com> het volgende geschreven:



To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/utracer/FEA699CB-3922-4EA9-9483-FB4EF3B67F55%40gmail.com.

[Joseph Blevins]

I have been messing around using AI to grabbing data and graphs from tube datasheets. That could be used to build another database. Taking hard work from RoeTest is not the correct way to do things. His database software is free to use and adding tube information to his database is always a good thing. I lean more towards making an open source option for anyone to use for any device. Rather it be uTracer, eTracer, or any other option.

$1200 for fuTracer seems really high even if it comes with it's own case eTrace is cheaper I believe. Tho I have not looked into it much does it still have the issue with 20kHz PWM for the heater?

I am in no way trying to take away from anything Ronald has done. I have seen some great builds and mods with details on the build, how it was done and even the CAD files. Not every community around these things are like this.

Also a big fan of the other UI's! Visual Basic 6 is rather aged.

[Big Josh]

Davo,

You're welcome to your opinion, but try being better informed. The FUtracer has 3 PCBs, including a socket board. The boards are 2mm thick with ENIG and other superior options and design elements over the low-budget slop Ronald made (like traces that don't lift off, and fully plated through-hole VIAs). The mainboard BOM is $200 at Mouser alone. The fully built FUtracer for $1200 I referred to is...FULLY BUILT. In a professional enclosure with silk screening too. Already calibrated, with power supply, and ready to go. Comes with a warranty, and support in the USA. 

Yes, you can get the mediocre parts that Ronald includes in his cheap kit for less. So what? Cheap parts are cheap, that's how it works. I invested a lot more than that in the uTracer when I still had that garbage, and the FUtracer wouldn't exist if Ronald actually stood by his product, or the (bad!) information on his website. You also can't get a fully built uTracer at all. last I checked (years ago), he wanted $600 for a populated PCB alone. YMMV, but when somebody tells you they paid $30k for a Nissan, there's no point in telling them how much you bought your 1994 Toyota Corolla for, even if it only needs a little work to get running again.

Thanks,

Josh

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/utracer/BAE72AEC-7195-407A-84BF-0F8DBAB925CA%40gmail.com.

[Davo]

I checked the schematics and it’s a cheap rip-off, with tiny adjustments

One word: Plagiarism

For instance, If you had some class you made it like the eTracer concept or roestest 

Same as the Rat Tube tester from Steve Bench and the Essex tube tester.

Which is a complete rip-off from Steve’s concept.

While the Essex had quite some innovations, the Fu-Tracer has a new PCB

Which might be a bit better, but uTracer works just fine though.

When traces lift off, it’s about the lack of knowledge or using the wrong tools!

There some parts that could be upgraded, same as some tweaks. 

But that depends on users needs

In my opinion there is nothing that justifies the ridiculous price of $1200 

For that money i would invest a few 100 dollar more and go for the Roetest

The PCB for the tube sockets…

In my opinion a Waste of money 

You can’t change the layout, when a sockets goes bad, it’s for the most of the people a pain to replace them.

When you wire the sockets correctly, you won’t have oscillations or interference etc.

And you have the freedom to adjust to your needs.

Same as the enclosure!

You can go as fancy as you wan’t or keep it plain & simple

The power supply from a laptop works just fine though.

With Nick Barton’s PIC & tweaks the uTracer works even better..

But how far you wanna go?

Sorry to say Big Josh, it’s quite a narcissistic behavior feeling that superior though!

Also breaking down Ronald Decker smh

Without Ronald the Fu(ck)Tracer never existed ;)

You got innovators & sheep..,

For instance, Nick Barton is an innovator!

Creating addon’s which make the uTracer better for an affordable price 

Same as Martin, Ihor, Bob etc

They all do it for the love & the community and not to enrich themselves

Op 8 nov 2024 om 19:56 heeft Big Josh <shif...@gmail.com> het volgende geschreven:



To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/utracer/CABi0_%2BN3mKfT8H373aHYYxNfdd%3DFf96kYtfHae%3DFCsUDnyrN_g%40mail.gmail.com.

[Davo]

I agree that it’s not the correct way to use the roestest database

But when someone shares a design to make a use to make advantage of the database from the roetest…

I can live with that…

It feels wrong when someone sells a design to enrich themselves.

I’m not talking about if someone sells a complete design/add-on for the production costs and/or a little symbolic fee…

Btw that’s quite a clever idea using AI though…

I’m have so many things going on in my life… I haven’t got time  to explore the possibilities using AI

With Nick Barton’s Firmware/PIC the PWM goes down to 2kHz which is a huge improvement.

And with the uTmax GUI you got a-lot more accuracy, the only downside from his software, i don’t like the quick test function..

Ronald’s design has a more detailed info…

Like the the tube strength in %

And some few results 

But the matrix board and shorts & leakage testing are a big plus 

Same as the full screen option is something what i really miss in the uTracer

The uTracerJS from Ihor is also a really good GUI

Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone

Op 8 nov 2024 om 17:38 heeft Joseph Blevins <josephbl...@gmail.com> het volgende geschreven:



To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/utracer/01881297-4edd-4614-969c-d51edccbc593n%40googlegroups.com.

[Martin Manning]

A couple of thoughts:

- Re uTracer PCB quality, I have removed and replaced dozens of parts on my 10-year old uT3 board. No traces have lifted. 

- Re price, Ronald's kits are very reasonably priced and save all the hassle of ordering parts. Well worth the cost, IMO. Extras like an enclosure, sockets, etc. are less than the cost of the kit, probably half as much. A pre-drilled enclosure would be a nice option for people without equipment or skills, but IMO a fully assembled tracer would only interest a user with no electronics assembly skills, and then would that user even know how to operate the device properly?

- Re the user interface, I've tried to maintain continuity with the OEM GUI in case any alternate might disappear, but I'm pretty much exclusively using Ihor's uTracer JS now. It's better and better for my needs running on Mac OS. I will take partial credit for the Quick Test form and function in Ronald's GUI. Early on he didn't think it would be much use, but I argued that for many it would be the main use, and those users will want to compare the DUT to data sheet reference values. 

Back on topic, for my purposes, the tube database is Frank's Electron tube Pages. My uTracer pin connections are via patch cords, and I'm perfectly happy with that for speed, and I value the added flexibility. Given that it takes a minute or two for a tube to stabilize, if I pull up the data sheet, connect the heater and power it on, there is plenty of time to make the other connections and set up the run. Once you have encountered a type, you can have the set-up saved for future reference. A completely automated pin assignment in hardware and software would have value for a commercial repair business, and it does have a technical "wow factor" about it, but there is still that warm-up time that limits the speed with which you can determine the health of the DUT. IMO it's a personal thing. 

[Ihor]

I also do things manually even thought having an switching board is a nice option. At the same time, blindly importing hundreds of tubes and using it with such board without proper verification means that for sure there will be some errors in pin numbers that will burn utracer at some point.... At some point I posted a nice solution that people did with a sort of plugin-connectors (specific for each tube) which are used to connect outputs form the utracer to inputs of 8 or 9 pin sockets. This option is also nice for people who do it as a hobby. I even have 3d printer designs somewhere. 

Additionally uTracerJS has a special menu which helps to see which wires to connect for each tube (see the screenshots) and the tube configs are saved in a very basic text format (that also utMax uses). It is also possible to seach there for the other tubes using https://tdsl.duncanamps.com/tubesearch.php The idea was also that people will extend that file and I would put something online, as an editor, but in the end I did not want to deal with spam and verification (if someone decides to mess up with the database and intentionally screw the system).  

[Ihor]

This is the connector that I meant:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEPc2HRH5oY&t=3s

search for 22:00 and see the screenshot:

The author gladly shared the files for 3 printing so it is nice if you test 10-30 tubes :) 

[Davo]

I totally agree Martin!

A complete tester doesn’t mean that someone without technical knowledge can operate it, and understands the whole process etc.

The matrix board is for me a luxury item :)

I like the shorts & leakage tester option, and also not worrying about patching the wrong cable, or have to deal with any cable, maybe a top cap…

The tube stabilization is the bottleneck of 

the whole process.

Op 9 nov 2024 om 15:22 heeft Martin Manning <mman...@fuse.net> het volgende geschreven:

A couple of thoughts:

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/utracer/d3d87e72-8f43-47a2-8d15-d67ca9dd032cn%40googlegroups.com.

[D.A.R Achterberg]

Nice add-on for patching the cables Ihor!

And Emanuals patch addon is cool also..

But I really like the Max Funke W19ntube tester system also!

He was a genius for it’s time!

One of the best & easy 

old school tube testers on the planet, same as the AVO

Op 9 nov 2024 om 15:44 heeft Ihor <iste...@gmail.com> het volgende geschreven:

This is the connector that I meant:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEPc2HRH5oY&t=3s

search for 22:00 and see the screenshot:

The author gladly shared the files for 3 printing so it is nice if you test 10-30 tubes :) 

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On Saturday 9 November 2024 at 15:36:47 UTC+1 Ihor wrote:

I also do things manually even thought having an switching board is a nice option. At the same time, blindly importing hundreds of tubes and using it with such board without proper verification means that for sure there will be some errors in pin numbers that will burn utracer at some point.... At some point I posted a nice solution that people did with a sort of plugin-connectors (specific for each tube) which are used to connect outputs form the utracer to inputs of 8 or 9 pin sockets. This option is also nice for people who do it as a hobby. I even have 3d printer designs somewhere. 

Additionally uTracerJS has a special menu which helps to see which wires to connect for each tube (see the screenshots) and the tube configs are saved in a very basic text format (that also utMax uses). It is also possible to seach there for the other tubes using https://tdsl.duncanamps.com/tubesearch.php The idea was also that people will extend that file and I would put something online, as an editor, but in the end I did not want to deal with spam and verification (if someone decides to mess up with the database and intentionally screw the system).  

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<scr5.png>

<scr4.png>

[Joseph Blevins]

Love the page layout. The database could have verified users to confirm the tube settings. I do understand the worry of damage to uTracer tho.

[Big Josh]

If that's really what you think, then you're as useless as you are ignorant. 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/utracer/8DEA4CBC-2262-431A-AE50-09C7DE10A7E9%40gmail.com.

[Joseph Blevins]

What microcontroller does the fuTracer use?

[Davo]

So your point is?

Op 9 nov 2024 om 21:38 heeft Joseph Blevins <josephbl...@gmail.com> het volgende geschreven:

What microcontroller does the fuTracer use?

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/utracer/20a64ac2-b966-49e5-9c48-e6dccf04f243n%40googlegroups.com.

[Big Josh]

It uses the PIC16F18875. 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/utracer/20a64ac2-b966-49e5-9c48-e6dccf04f243n%40googlegroups.com.

[Never Mind]

Josh said "If that's really what you think, then you're as useless as you are ignorant."

May concern with ever being a FUtracer customer is the tone of conversations that FUtracer seem to foster.

I have read the FUtracer web site and I believe the tone used to describe other uTracer products is uncalled for.

You lose me when you discuss a competitor or his product in a disrespectful way. There is no value in that and it damages the wider community of users.

I have no problem with a motivated competitor developing a improved version of a existing product. 

That is free enterprise. Go to it. Promote how exactly your product is improved and do it in a friendly, welcoming and informative way and customers will follow.

Bob J.

BTW

I have many happy years of experience using Ronald's uTracer3+ and recently the utracer6.

Sure they have their limitations and short comings as does EVERY product.

So far by working within the uTracer's large community of talented users I have found workarounds for almost all the shortcoming that affect me.

What the uTracer does in my experience is deliver a huge amount of functionally and value for the very low cost Ronald sells his product at.

The uTracer3+ is in my experience an excellent product for the DIY hobbyist.

[Big Josh]

I hear you Bob, but the "tone" of the website is toned way down. My experience with Ronald was a nightmare, and I wouldn't wish it on anybody, not even Davo. BTW- Davo claims he compared the schematics. If that's true, I'd like to know where he got it from since it isn't publicly available prior to purchase. Anyway, I'll leave that alone, it isn't productive to waste my time on it further.

Something for perspective: this isn't a business; it's a hobby at best for me. I'm not trying to win anybody over from the uTracer crowd. In fact, I've still supported people in this group with their uTracers despite that also being bad for my 'business.' Of course, there are a few people that switched happily after being disappointed with their personal uTracer experience (they contacted me through the website, not the group). To each their own.

My experience with Ronald, and the aftermath, cost me thousands of dollars. Had he given me the support everybody thinks he's good for, I would have never gone down this road. So now the hobby will hopefully recuperate some of my investment into this. I wish the roetest was as good as people think, I could have got that instead and been done with it. 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/utracer/2795c0a2-83a9-4ef3-91c3-3fd21f78ce6an%40googlegroups.com.

[Gary Kaufman]

I have always taken a backseat, and I suspect few folks are even aware
this group is moderated (primarily to keep spammers off).

This post crosses the line of what many would consider acceptable
discussion.  We're all friends here, right ?

[Pedro Cimini]

Even though I rarely post here, I have been reading every single post of every conversation for the last 9-12 months, and it's sad to see that almost all of the aggressive behavior in this community only appears when a single subject is touched upon, and most users know what it is. While we can go on and on about the ethics and moralities of intellectual property, a fine subject to discuss in itself, it is not justified to attack other users that hold different views.

I myself have had bad experiences dealing with Ronald, however I sincerely appreciate all the effort and knowledge he put into his tester. I wish he would've been more open towards open sourcing his design, since this would have opened the possibility for users to officially improve the uTracer in some aspects, like we have seen many do without his endorsement. But also, this would have allowed him to share his schematics with some type of public license, which would've legally required said user to acknowledge that his design is an "improvement" of a previous one. We all know which design was ripped off, there is simply no question about that, no matter the drama that ensues.

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that this rude and unprofessional behavior will ever stop, as such user simply cannot avoid to escalate whenever anybody criticizes any of his actions, taking it personally and disrespecting the whole community. To me it is hypocritical that he complains about Ronald while acting out worse.

I hate to say that but this will happen again.

[Never Mind]

pmci said "ripped off"

I have worked in the research and development field for over 4 decades managing design teams and personally designing products.

I we designed products from nuclear medical devices , telecom products and lots of consumer electronics.

Our standard was always to release designs that were arguably "best in category" internationally.

The only way to be sure your product is going to be best in category is through through research at the project start of all other designs.

A key part of that research is taking apart previous products in that category, reverse engineering them fully, understanding how they work and discovering the compromises, flaws and design errors in them.

Only then can can you be sure you will move beyond the current state of the art. The patent system puts limits on what you freely are allowed to use that you may discover.

Most that have never worked in product design fail to understand this reverse engineering as a key part of the design process to reach excellence and fall into the trap of seeing this learning process as somehow improper.

Incremental improvement is a large part of what allows human technology to continue to reach greater heights.

All human progress is based on improvement being made by standing on the shoulders of those that came before us.

Did the discoverer of the wheel have to invent language to allow the critical thinking needed to make and communicate this invention?

Of course not they used the invention of language from those that came before.

Did the first car maker have to discover the wheel? 

If course not they simply took wagons and went forward.

And so it is with all invention and incremental improvement. Designers stand on the shoulders of those that went before them.

Any design that stands still be be quickly passed by the improvements of others. 

This is how all human progress happens and yes it can at times seem cruel and unfair to the original inventors. 

What design progress is not is evidence of a moral shortcoming of those that continue to push current designs forward.

[Pedro Cimini]

I agree with you, Bob. Like I said, I did not want to discuss the moralities or ethics of copyright. In my humble opinion, I personally do not think there is anything wrong with incrementally improving on other people's designs. I just think there is no reason to be rude about it.

This community inevitably surrounds a project that was dearly created by an individual, and there isn't really much profit to be made in this ultra specific niche. We are mostly here due to love and passion for electronics, and therefore, we should prioritize our collective wellbeing over petty IP drama and personal attacks.

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[Never Mind]

pmci " I just think there is no reason to be rude about it. "

On this I 100% agree with you.

[Davo]

I apologize to everyone for being so rude!

The point what made me so angry is that someone is spamming a reproduction & asking a ridiculous amount of money and taking down Ronald & the uTracer on this forum… In my eyes it feels wrong.

Everyone is free to do what he wants to do, but inappropriate to post here, and asking for trouble…

I’ll will do my best to be the bigger man!

Op 12 nov 2024 om 17:57 heeft Davo <djda...@gmail.com> het volgende geschreven:

Sorry for letting my feelings go…

Normally at a forum such spam is being remover 

Op 12 nov 2024 om 12:41 heeft Pedro Cimini <pmci...@gmail.com> het volgende geschreven:



Even though I rarely post here, I have been reading every single post of every conversation for the last 9-12 months, and it's sad to see that almost all of the aggressive behavior in this community only appears when a single subject is touched upon, and most users know what it is. While we can go on and on about the ethics and moralities of intellectual property, a fine subject to discuss in itself, it is not justified to attack other users that hold different views.

I myself have had bad experiences dealing with Ronald, however I sincerely appreciate all the effort and knowledge he put into his tester. I wish he would've been more open towards open sourcing his design, since this would have opened the possibility for users to officially improve the uTracer in some aspects, like we have seen many do without his endorsement. But also, this would have allowed him to share his schematics with some type of public license, which would've legally required said user to acknowledge that his design is an "improvement" of a previous one. We all know which design was ripped off, there is simply no question about that, no matter the drama that ensues.

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that this rude and unprofessional behavior will ever stop, as such user simply cannot avoid to escalate whenever anybody criticizes any of his actions, taking it personally and disrespecting the whole community. To me it is hypocritical that he complains about Ronald while acting out worse.

I hate to say that but this will happen again.

Em terça-feira, 12 de novembro de 2024 às 01:00:37 UTC-3, GEK escreveu:

I have always taken a backseat, and I suspect few folks are even aware
this group is moderated (primarily to keep spammers off).

This post crosses the line of what many would consider acceptable
discussion.  We're all friends here, right ?

On 11/9/2024 3:13 PM, Big Josh wrote:
> If that's really what you think, then you're as useless as you are
> ignorant.

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[Joseph Blevins]

If anyone wanted more info on this board by Stephen Kraig. I found it on https://github.com/analogeng/uTracer-3-Upgrade The software being used is from https://diptrace.com

[Never Mind]

I have seen this design in the past. 

It is nicely designed, well executed and very pretty. A good piece of work.

I just happen to like my totally flexible and simple patch cable setup in a lab.

A bit slow but but hard to see it ever breaking no matter what sort of tube ones testing.

I also sometimes have the need to add extra voltages for tubes with additional elements past pentodes and some with weird filament voltages (like 117V) so patch cable are for me.

It is pretty though.

Bob J.

[Big Josh]

117V filaments?? What tubes are those?

6028-408As are the highest I currently test regarding heater voltages.

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[GEK]

Several odd radio types used 117v filaments (117L7, 117M7, 117N7,117P7)

[Big Josh]

Were they using line voltage for the heaters?

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/utracer/5da55940-c571-472f-9ee6-0a5db4388af4n%40googlegroups.com.

[GEK]

Yup (117v AC or DC)

See https://bms.isjtr.ro/sheets/049/1/117L7GT.pdf for one example.

[Félix Menéndez]

Hi all,

117Z… Half wave rectifiers. I’ve worked them in ‘50s TV sets (American). We wounded a dedicated filament transformer for our uTracer+ with several taps, including 117 (never used though!).

 

De: utr...@googlegroups.com [mailto:utr...@googlegroups.com] En nombre de Big Josh
Enviado el: sábado, 23 de noviembre de 2024 20:41
Para: utr...@googlegroups.com
Asunto: Re: Pin Switch Matrix Board

 

117V filaments?? What tubes are those?

 

6028-408As are the highest I currently test regarding heater voltages.

 

On Sat, Nov 23, 2024 at 12:53 PM Never Mind <bobblue...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have seen this design in the past. 

It is nicely designed, well executed and very pretty. A good piece of work.

 

I just happen to like my totally flexible and simple patch cable setup in a lab.

A bit slow but but hard to see it ever breaking no matter what sort of tube ones testing.

I also sometimes have the need to add extra voltages for tubes with additional elements past pentodes and some with weird filament voltages (like 117V) so patch cable are for me.

 

It is pretty though.

 

 

Bob J.

 

On Sunday, November 17, 2024 at 8:37:37 PM UTC-4 josephbl...@gmail.com wrote:

If anyone wanted more info on this board by Stephen Kraig. I found it on https://github.com/analogeng/uTracer-3-Upgrade The software being used is from https://diptrace.com

 

 

 

On Monday, November 4, 2024 at 8:21:45 PM UTC-6 Joseph Blevins wrote:

Does anyone know if https://bmamps.com/v01/matrix-pin-switch-board-for-utracer/ was ever made open source or where I might be able to get one.

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[Never Mind]

" Several odd radio types used 117v filaments (117L7, 117M7, 117N7,117P7) "

The 117P7 and 117N7 a pentode and 1/2 wave rectifier found in the US in ultra cheep record players in the 1950s and early 1960s.

They ran directly off the power line and there were almost no parts in the amplifier.

The pentode could produce less than 1 watt output power with lots of distortion.

These were truly cheep and bad sounding record players. My sister had one around 1960.

I still have a pair of the tubes, new in the box. Not sure why.

[Big Josh]

Thanks. There's a lot of wacky tubes out there!

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/utracer/8e6b0e89-ec9b-48e6-899e-63bf206696c9n%40googlegroups.com.