Ideas to smooth Nephi dirt strip area?

[Bret Hess]

We could use some ideas/discussion on how to make the bumpy dirt west side of the Nephi runway smoother.  We've put big efforts in before Nephi events, but the smoothing isn't quite enough and it doesn't last long.   Bruno cites this problem as getting in the way of future events, because of the danger to the tow planes.   And during winch launching, we drive a retrieve vehicle 2.5 miles along the strip after each flight to pull the rope back to the glider.  I think the retrieve vehicle is getting way too much wear from all the bumps, and I don't know if it's sustainable.  

I've heard the biggest causes are clump grass and golpher holes.

Others can say more about what has been tried, but what I've seen is a combination of rolling and dragging with some huge tires chained together.  

What Ideas do you club members have?  

Can we do scraping (grading) as is done for bad dirt roads, then drag to remove the vegetation?

[David Cleveland]

The tires, rolling and chains are not productive and certainly not long lasting. Something like this has not been tried:

https://darrellharp.com/1_45_topline-soil-leveler.html

There are lots of different versions.

Bill Goodrich will be a good resource to ask. He has used a lot of this equipment.

David

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[Bret Hess]

That does look like a good option to try...maybe the farmer next door would rent us a tractor to pull it.

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[William Goodrich]

Hi All,   When I landed out the other day in Dog Valley it was in a dry land pasture where lots of cows had walked over the ground and were still doing so.   No gopher holes and no clumps of grass.  Very smooth landing.  It seems logical to duplicate this practice without the cows.  I haven't had any experience with a sheep's paw roller, but someone who has worked in construction may know if that would work or something similar.   It could be pulled with a tractor.  I don't think we want to work up the ground with equipment due to dust.    

Of course the best would be to have the President create some jobs in Nephi and put in another strip/

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[Bret Hess]

Bill thanks for commenting.  This is the "sheeps-foot roller" Bill is talking about.   Looking online, it's used for compacting soil and gravel.

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[Bret Hess]

Bill, post a picture of your landout (and the pasture) if you have one.  

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[Brad Alston]

Good thoughts.

Most any decent runway, of whatever surface, starts with grading and figuring out needed drainage. Then it’s a matter of preping the ground for the actual surface…compacting dirt and spraying magnesium chloride (I think that’s what’s used, but it is a bit nasty until it absorbs into the ground), or spreading grass seed and watering…or praying for rain! ;)

Grading will strip the top layer so no more clumps! Dragging doesn’t do the same, as has been mentioned.

Brad.

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Brad.

[Steve Rathbun]

The grade is fine as far as drainage goes. Maybe fill in a few low spots. Focus on a long, narrow runway where the wheels are touching down normally.

 

I think the sheepsfoot roller is a good choice. Get the largest and heaviest one available I think a large water truck will also be needed to wet down the area before rolling it.  Smash down the grass clumps and make the surface more uniform while keeping the existing vegetation alive. Like others have said, grading all the vegetation away will just make a lot of dry dust.

 

Magnesium chloride will make the soil more alkali and then nothing will ever grow there. Don’t count on getting grass seed to grow. There isn’t any water.

 

Steve

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Brad.

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[Brad Alston]

All good points Steve.

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Brad.

[Bret Hess]

I guess it depends on how much area we're trying to smooth, but can we apply enough water to matter? I doubt water trucks have made much difference in rolling in the past, but I wasn't there.  Let's guess/estimate (or talk to experts) about how much water applied in a time like mid June before an event would wet the ground deep enough so the soil does what we want under a sheepsfoot roller.  And how many truckfulls that would be.  Or do test often and try something in the spring/winter when the water in the ground is "just right"?  

Steve how wide a strip are you thinking of?

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[Steve Rathbun]

It will take lots of water if we try doing this in the summer months. Many many truckloads. I do not know what the water source would be or what the haul distance is. I like the idea of doing it in the spring when the moisture in the ground is just right. Timing would be critical. Too much water is bad too. We don’t want to track mud all over the place. That red soil is nasty when it gets wet.

 

Ask the tow pilots how wide a strip they think they need. I’m thinking 30 feet.

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[Bret Hess]

These are from Wheeler, that has a location in Lindon https://www.catrentalstore.com/wheeler/en_US/results.html?search=compactor&searchFrom=catalog_page

Interesting that the daily price is all the same over a weight range of 3x.

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[john gonthier]

I think Steve is correct and the grade is not an issue. I think the issue is there's not much topsoil to allow grasses to grow and hide the rocks underneath. Also the species of grasses (clump type) are probably not the best for a runway, a better choice would be one that spreads rhizomes. Mike and I did some research and the folks at Granite Seed in Lehi made some recommendations as to a blend that would work for our conditions.

I think we really need to have grass on that field to keep the dust down, but more importantly to keep the big rocks buried and in place, and the surface, soft. The big rocks are what's damaging the equipment (as evidenced by the recent propeller repair) and helping make the field rough. To get the grass to grow it needs topsoil and water. You need to keep grass seed wet, and I mean really wet to get it to germinate at a reasonable rate that you're not wasting seed. Seed is pretty expensive. It probably won't take alot of topsoil as we really only need it in the most heavily used areas. Just an inch or two of top dressing to give the seed a place to establish roots. Finding a cheap or donated source would obviously be ideal. The timing on the topsoil and prep of the areas would be crucial to the success, late fall just before the the wet weather and snow, after we're done using the runway for the season, would be ideal. The best time for planting the seed without supplement water, would be right before the first really decent snow in late November or early Dec. Also covering it with straw will help keep the seed in place and hold the moisture in as the snow melts in the spring and germinates the seed. Then keep your fingers crossed that the spring is a wet one.

I worked on the summer trail crew at Deer Valley ski resort in 1984 when I first moved to Utah. We were a crew of about 15 and we did all sorts of manual labor maintaining the resorts ski runs including the finish work of picking rocks, raking water bars, spreading grass seed and straw on the resort's new Mayflower ski runs (at Deer Valley the ski runs are like grass runways albeit, on a fairly steep grade, that's how they're able to get voted as the "best groomed runs" award most season's). We used this technique with excellent results, but the mountains have alot more natural moisture. I have also done other fairly large revegetation projects, and the only way to get grass seed to germinate is to keep it wet. There's no way we could provide enough water to do so without an extensive irrigation system, and that's probably next to impossible. 

I've thought alot about this and do have some practical experience doing grounds work over the last 38 years since I've been in Utah.

In my opinion I think the best short term solution would be to continue to make efforts to drag grade the runway using the tires to knock down the mole mounds, roll the runway using a heavy duty sheep's foot or smooth rental roller, and keep the field mowed. With longer term goals of adding some topsoil, seed, and cover with straw in the late fall after the season is over to improve the grass coverage. Also working on getting our own roller, and perhaps a rock picking machine, and other labor saving equipment. 

On the cable retrieve, I know I did some damage to my Toyota last fall and front end makes a lot more noise when going over rough roads than it did before I used it for rope retrieval. Maybe a used atv that's faster and better suited than the golf carts would be a possiblity. Or maybe some type of surface tow rope like an old school ski rope tow would be a not too difficult option, to drag the rope back. With a wagon or kevlar bag to put the strope and parachute in. Or a retrieval winch?

 

Of course the other option is to get millions in grants and develop the field to west of what we're using now and create a real grass runway, with some limited irrigation on each end to keep it all pretty and smooth. An electric winch on each end .... oh stop dreaming already....

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[William Goodrich]

Hi,   Concerning the grass strip at Nephi;  I just called the farmer who's dry land pasture I landed in and he had previously planted.  John is absolutely right about planting.  The farmer says to plant in Nov just before the snow.  It can be drilled into no more than a 1/2 in. or broadcast and incorporated.  He says he uses 15 to 20 lbs per acre and on his place intermediate wheat grass or crested wheat grass.  They are both drought resistant.   He gave me the name of his son who is the area weed management supervisor for the government and has planted 1000's of acres of grass in the area.  Not a bad person to know.  

I may have mentioned a sheep's foot roller, but looking at the utube it looks a little aggressive for our use.   

Whoever heads this project, I will give the name of the gov rep.   

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[john gonthier]

I'm with Bill on the sheepsfoot being to aggressive. A smooth roller like we used last year, just more of it on regular basis if we can, especially after a decent rain.

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On Sat, Jun 18, 2022 at 11:58 AM, 'William Goodrich' via Utah Soaring

<utah-s...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

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[john gonthier]

https://www.truegridpaver.com/grass-runways/

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On Sat, Jun 18, 2022 at 2:27 PM, 'john gonthier' via Utah Soaring

<utah-s...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

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