Riding gravel tires on a 400km Rando

[Hoyt Robey]

I did a bike commute with my tubeless wheelset today, 700 x 35, the widest my frame will allow. 

It was so comfortable & fun! I started to wonder if I should ride this wheelset on my 24 lbs. steel frame on the 400km this weekend. The alternative is my 20 lbs steel frame with a gator skin tubed 700 x 32 wheelset. 

My quandary is tubeless & gravel tread vs tubed  & smooth road tread plus a 4 lbs. heavier bike.  One wheelset is disk & one is rim brake so they are not interchangeable. Thoughts on the setup for a 400 km Rando?

[Ken Moss]

I wouldn't ride gravel tires on a 400k, but I wouldn't ride gatorskins either, those are pretty slow tires. For a 400k, you want the fastest tires you can get so I'd see what Loyal, Bikers Edge, Bountiful Bike, have in stock for fast racing tires in 32 and ride those.

[Hoyt Robey]

What about tubeless vs tubes? I think you told me you went back to tubes. 

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[Ken Moss]

I like tubeless at 35mm & above and tubes with sealant in it below 35

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[Matt Bell]

Hoyt,

 

I run tubes.   (And Gatorskins <grin>).   I know that tubeless get flats much less frequently than with tubes, but I don't get flats very often (maybe once or twice a year at most) now that I replace my tires just before they wear out, instead of just after.  The thing about tubeless is that when you get a flat with tubeless that the sealant can't fix, it's a time-consuming mess.  I find that 10 minutes to change a tube once a year or so is a small price to pay to avoid that risk.   Of course, to each his own.

 

I know you can also run tubeless at lower pressures, which is more comfortable, but I rarely have that issue either.   I run lower pressures with tubes than I used to, but even before that, I didn't have much in the way of comfort issues, even on fairly rough roads.

 

This is just my take.   I know many people swear by tubeless, and they "never get flats", but the last ride I was on (a 400K) a guy I was with got a flat running tubeless, and it was a lot of work.

 

Of course, all my cars run tubeless, and I think I've only had a flat once in the last 20 years.

 

Matt Bell

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[Richard Stum]

The gold standard in low rolling resistance (and reasonable flat protection, especially if you’re running tubeless) is the Continental Grand Prix 5000 series. 32mm is a sweet width. The website rollingresistance.com uses them as their benchmark to measure all other road tires against.

If the I.D. of your rims are super skinny, then you gotta be careful about running too fat of a tire. Below the guidelines for which continental recommends:

13 to 17mm I.D. rim run a 25mm wide tire

15 to 19mm I.D. rim for a 28mm or 32mm wide tire

19 to 23mm I.D. rim for a 40mm wide tire

21 to 25mm I.D. rim for a 50mm wide tire

Meanwhile, it’s still spring, isn’t it? I’m still in Skimo mode and plan to go to Portland to ski and do a little climbing on Mt Hood that weekend. So I won’t be joining you guys.

Cheers,
Richard Stum
Mobile 435-851-9558

Living & Working in the Mountains of Central Utah

Rap Sheet:
RandoRichard.com (blog)
rando_richard (Strava)
eogear.com (cycling bags)
kgear.com (camera bags)
@eogear.usa (Instagram & Twitter)
richardwstum, eoGEAR or KinesisPhoto (Facebook)

Excuse any typos or brevity of message as this was input on an itty-bitty iPhone or iPad keypad or, worse yet, transcribed through Siri.

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[taylor chivers]

Personally I will never go back to tubes after going tubeless. Even with gator skins and puncture resistant tubes, I end up only having to plug a hole MAYBE one time in the entire life of the tire. 

As far as size, I prefer 32 for training and pooting around and 28 for any long events. This was my setup for the Hoodoo 300 and I was extremely happy with it! 

And I will always swear by IRC tires with X-guard! 

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[Brady Smith]

My one 400k was done on Rene Herse Snoqualmie Pass tires (700x44), with tubes. My brevet bike doesn't ride great on anything less than 38s. 

I got two punctures and a sizable sidewall cut on that ride. The latter may well have been a ride ender on a tubeless setup. Instead, I was able to patch the hole on the tire, patch all my tubes, and make it to the finish. 

I love the ride quality of those tires, but I swapped them for stouter tires after that ride, given how frequently I was encountering thorns on brevets (strangely, never on local rides around Salt Lake/Park City). 

Thinking of pulling the trigger on the Rene Herse TPU tube/sealant setup that they just released. The claim is that it's as functional as tubeless--I've never had much luck with regular tubes and sealant. I guess I'll find out. 

BMS

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[David Goldenberg]

I confess to having drunk deeply of the Rene Herse Kool-Aid, and I am a big fan of their tires. I have the Barlow Pass (700cx38) on my two bikes, and I love how smoothly they roll. There was a quite dramatic change going to these from Gravel King semi-slicks, though the Gravel Kings were the heavier + casing, and the RHs have the standard casing.

But, like Brady, I have found the RHs to be pretty susceptible to punctures. The next time around I might try the endurance casing.

Last fall, I took another sip and bought the RH TPU tubes for one of the bikes, in part because of the claim that they are more puncture resistant than butyl tubes. So far, that claim doesn’t seem to be borne out, as I have had a couple of punctures in about 900 miles, in both cases from thorns. On the other hand, the special patches RH sells do seem to work well.

Then, when they introduced the TPU sealant a couple of months ago, I obviously had to try that, too! Unfortunately, I have been out of commission since I added the sealant, so I can't say anything about how well that works.

As a side note, I think that I stumbled onto the source for the RH TPU tubes and sealant:
https://eclipse.bike/en
If this outfit isn’t providing the tubes to RH, I think that someone else must be selling to both of them. The tubes look to have the same aluminum stems, and the packaging of the products looks identical, except for the colors.

David

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[Kelly McPherson]

I am a tire newbie and have questions.  

I have ridden for many years on a road bike with standard tube tires.  About a year ago, I bought a gravel bike with two tubeless wheelsets, one for gravel and one for road.  I have been loving the tubeless setup on my gravel bike.  I haven't had a flat, every.  NICE!  My road wheels are set up for tubeless, but I am running them with tubes.  I am tempted to ride my gravel bike with the road tires on Saturday because my gravel bike allows for more storage.  Changing tubes on a wheel setup for tubeless is painful.  It is so tight!  I've been told that high pressure tires, like road tires, are not great for tubeless.  Should I run then tubed or should I try to go tubeless on them?  It's either that or I ride my regular road bike.

Thanks in advance. . . trying to figure this out.

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[Ken Moss]

I wouldn't make any big changes this close to a big ride, so I would recommend moving your road wheels/tires to your gravel bike (if they're compatible) and leaving the tubes in. And then experiment with tubeless later if you want. I haven't had good luck with tubeless at higher pressures, but it's been a long time and gear has improved since then. On pavement, I think you get most of the benefit of flat protection by running tubes with sealant, without the hassle of a fully tubeless setup. Most of our flats around here are goatheads and sealant works really well against goatheads.

Another tire topic that has come up recently, tubeless tires should be run at LOW pressures. There was an injury due to running tubeless tires at high pressure, so please talk to your mechanic about that topic if you're not confident about what pressures to run.

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[Jason Koon]

I have run tubeless road tires since 2020 and have yet to have any incident that required me to add air to my tires before I got home.

I run 28-32mm tires from 60-72psi

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[Kelly McPherson]

So, my road tires for my gravel bike are 28mm and I’ve been running them at 90-100psi. No to tubeless in that situation?

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[Jason Koon]

Ya you would typically go lower. Which in my opinion is desirable. I think the reason to run high pressure in a tubed tire is to avoid pinch flats. 

Pinch flats aren't an issue w/tubeless. 

Lower pressure gives you better (lower) rolling resistance and increased comfort.

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[Kelly McPherson]

Hmmm… I will have to try that.  I am super new to different tire setups. I have been running the same setup for 20 years. It has been working, but this kind of riding is different than what I am used to and I have a lot of learning to do. 

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[Jason Koon]

there's some tire pressure calculators online. And tubeless rims and tires will both have a max rated pressure. I know my rims don't allow >72psi

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[Kelly McPherson]

Interesting. I will have to take a look. Thanks!

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[Ken Moss]

In case you missed the fun, I got a large gash in my rear tire, riding on the messy shoulder thru Logan, about 2 miles before the Maverik. I lost a large amount of sealant before it would hold any air. I pumped up my tire twice before I made it to Maverik. I usually carry super glue, but I forgot to restock after my last tire gash, so I bought super glue at the gas station and applied to the gash. That held well enough to ride with low pressure to Preston, where I applied super glue again and pumped up to 25 psi which lasted to the finish. Yesterday I pumped it up to (high pressure for 42mm) 50 psi and it is still holding, so I think it's good now.

[benjamin meyerson]

FWIW I find the best tire pressure calculator is the SRAM/Zipp which takes into account tubed vs. tubeless, internal diameter of rim, type of bead, specific surface conditions, and tire compound whereas Jan's Rene Herse tire calculator does not.  

Usually start with their recommended pressure and you might alter it + - one or two psi for personal preference.  I've found it to be spot on!

https://axs.sram.com/guides/tire/pressure

AXS - SRAM Find the optimal tire pressure for your bike based on various factors including weight, rim width, tire size, ride surface and speed. axs.sram.com

Remember to use your weight with clothes and shoes on and bike weight as it is outfitted with bags and water.

I'm a huge tire/wheel geek and am partial to, and have had great success with, Continental tires for road tubeless but have used many other brands as well for road, gravel, touring, and mtb.   

If any of you have questions about or need help with choosing tubeless tires and/or setup, sealant, valve questions etc. please feel free to contact me, 801-571-8589.  Happy to help and run you through the whole install process as well.

Cheers,

Ben

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From: utah-...@googlegroups.com <utah-...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Ken Moss <ken8...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2025 12:10 PM
To: Utah Randonneuring <utah-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Utah Randos] Riding gravel tires on a 400km Rando

 

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[Peeler]

I have never been a fan of Gatorskins, but its sibling the Hardshell is great for rough roads, but a bit slow. I like the tires that Rivendell Bicycle Works they come in a 700Cx33.33 smooth tread. I have used them for everything from 200K-600K routes. They have a belted version also. Ken Moss is spot on with his advice-Pete

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On May 20, 2025, at 9:37 AM, Matt Bell <eog...@idahobells.com> wrote:



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[Peeler]

Oh I forgot to mention my go to tire is the Jack Brown. Basically a Panaracer tire built just for Rivendell. They are worth the price in my opinion.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 26, 2025, at 1:22 PM, Peeler <peter...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have never been a fan of Gatorskins, but its sibling the Hardshell is great for rough roads, but a bit slow. I like the tires that Rivendell Bicycle Works they come in a 700Cx33.33 smooth tread. I have used them for everything from 200K-600K routes. They have a belted version also. Ken Moss is spot on with his advice-Pete

[Brady Smith]

I used Jack Brown Blues (the belted version) for several years of NJ-NYC bike commuting. My one flat on those tires came after I'd squared off a back tire and rode over a section of wire with my child on the rear of the bike. 

Once I swapped that touring/commuting rig for a road bike (a Rivendell Roadini), I found the Jack Brown Blues a bit much and moved to Continental 4 Seasons, which I've kept on that bike ever since. I find them a good compromise between heavy duty protection (Gatorskins) and high performance (GP 5000). 

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[Richard Stum]

Conti now has a new 4-season tire in the 5000 series which is called the 5000 AS TR. I just ordered a batch of them from a European dealer for a good price (buy 5 and get free shipping).

~ Rando Richard

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[benjamin meyerson]

You will love them Richard.  Made in Germany!!!

The GP 5000 AS tr may be the ultimate touring and/or Brevet tire, just a hair slower and heavier than the 5000 S tr but still a very high performance fast tire with significantly better puncture resistance, wet grip, and mileage than the S tr.

I put in 5,000 miles in 4 months on them, on a loaded touring bike through 4 countries in SE Asia with a fair amount of gravel and broken pavement and highway riding, tubeless, with zero flats and zero problems.  

Additional plus was only needed to add air to my tires around once a week because they only lost around 1 psi per day, on par with or better than a tubed tire. Really nice on a tour where you don't have a floor pump.  

Hassle free high performance.  I was running the 35s and carried a 32 as a spare.  Got 3,500 miles out of the rear then rotated the front 35 to the rear, put the spare 32 on the front, and finished the tour.  Simply amazing.

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From: utah-...@googlegroups.com <utah-...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Richard Stum <richa...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2025 10:40 PM
To: utah-...@googlegroups.com <utah-...@googlegroups.com>

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[Jim Howell]

Hi Richard,

May I ask the name of the store where you bought the new 5000 AS TR's? They sound like a good alternative to the GP 5000...

Thanks,

Jim

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[Richard Stum]

Sure thing: https://www.all4cycling.com/en/

I used to get them wholesale from one of my distributors in SLC but they stopped carrying Conti road tires...hence a search for another source produced this place. 

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[Jim Howell]

Thanks Richard!

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