Bishop Oyedepo and his Congregation : The Method of Healing

[Segun]

I have watched the video clips and at first I did not know why Oyedepo beat the lady. But the second time I watched it, the lady told the Bishop that she was a witch for Jesus or Christ. That statement could infuriate the Bishop or it could be that the Man of God found that the confession was anti-Christ or that the woman did not know what she was saying or she was crazy or mad hence the need for a spiritual healing and as the Holy Spirit directed the Bishop the best way to restore the sanity of the woman was by divine beating.
Don't forget some mad people who go for healing traditionally receive beating as part of the therapy. So that of Bishop Oyedepo might be having a similar therapeutic healing method which the woman needed.
Did the woman take offense by the beating she received? What she wanted was a complete healing. Did she receive healing after being beaten. In my opinion that should be our major concern. If she got healed, the woman would not bother about the method used to get her well. What she wanted was healing or deliverance and she got it.
So if that be the case, what is the use of the intellectual discourse which has no meaning to the woman?
We do not understand the religious language game of the Church and for us to judge Bishop Oyedepo is morally unwarranted.
Segun Ogungbemi.
Sent from my iPhone

[Amatoritsero Ede]

How do you know the woman has witchcraft in the first place? This is a simple case of projection - she probably does not even know what witches do. And if she is a witch why cant the pastor just let her be. This is no pastor but a  businessman and a thug.

Amatoritsero

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[wolea...@yahoo.com]

Segun, I shudder at your attempt to justify an otherwise ridiculous show of supremacy by a power drunk hater of the very poor he claims to put on the part of salvation. I ordinarily would have refrained from volunteering any comment, but for the egocentric and over-inflated antecedence of Oyedepo. The moment any mortal begins to see himself as God, he misses it completely. For the records, it is this same Oyedepo who compels all adherents of his ministry in Lagos State, except Badagry, Ikorodu and Epe to worship at Ota every sunday. The carnage recorded on the Agbara to Ota road (loss of lives through avoidable accidents) has remained higher than most other routes in Lagos. Upon the establishment of his Covenant University, he combined the tasks of the Chancellor(his designation) with that of Pro- Chancellor, Vice chancellor and Registrar, sometimes issuing verbal reprimands and giving directives for the query or sack of erring staff of the University. All these, because the University is seen as a private estate. The garullous nature of Oyedepo becomes evident in the question he posed to the abused lady in the video as to whether or not she knew who she was talking to. What should one expect of a pastor who prowls the street in a convoy guarded by private gun carrying body guards and trigger happy policemen sustained by the sweat of the down trodden masses who are further victimised by pastors who should stand for them during their travails. It is a sad milestone in the nation's 'march of faith' Wole Atere, PhD. Osun State University
Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN

[Ayo Obe]

You may need to tell us the difference between this specific assault and the activities of those assaulting, burning and maiming the so-called "child witches" of Akwa Ibom. Divine beating indeed!

Ayo
I invite you to follow me on Twitter @naijama

[alem...@yahoo.com]

Oga Segun
Na wah oh for your explanation. Was it meant to be a joke?
False doctrine and all sorts of voodoism have been elevated to spiritualism in the country and globally. Christians should be reminded of the declaration of Jesus Christ, paraphrased - on the last day many will come to him, declaring their miraculous deeds and he will ask them to depart from him because they were workers of iniquity-. Christians are admonished in the Bibler to test all spirit rather than submit to everyone who claimed to be annointed. In any case, annointed by who and for what? Religion has become a means to satisfy greed rather than a quest for service to mankind and fellowship with God.
Etannibi
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless handheld from Glo Mobile.

-----Original Message-----
From: Segun <Segun...@yahoo.com>
Sender: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 19:43:43
To: <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Reply-To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Bishop Oyedepo and his Congregation :
The Method of Healing

[Farooq A. Kperogi]

We do not understand the religious language game of the Church and for us to judge Bishop Oyedepo is morally unwarranted."--
Segun Ogungbemi.

And the writer of this drivel habitually signs off his/herself posts as a "professor"? Good gracious! If this is the thinking of a "professor," any wonder why Nigeria is stuck in perpetual infancy? I have officially given up on Nigeria! Good Lord!

I am too embarrassed to say more.

Farooq

Farooq A. Kperogi, Ph.D.

Assistant Professor of Journalism & Citizen Media
Department of Communication
Kennesaw State University
1000 Chastain Road, MD 2207 

Kennesaw, Georgia, USA 30144
Cell:  (+1) 404-573-969:
Personal website: www.farooqkperogi.com

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/farooqkperogi

Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/farooqkperogi

"The nice thing about pessimism is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised." G. F. Will

[xena iris]

Farooq has said it all in respect of Segun's post: it is the silliest thing any educated and self-respecting Christian could say; I have never heard of "divine beating" or "divine slap". (Think about "divine theft", divine adulatory"; "divine sex"; "Divine murder" and you would know this is Babylon Inc.!) Nigeria and many of their Christians are indeed strange in many ways but we are not disheartened considering the sort of responses we are seeing concerning Mr Oyedepo's assault on a poor, innocent, weak girl. Many so-called "Pentecostals" (properly Pente-rascals) in Nigeria do not even care to understand the history of the "church-firms" they troop to each Sunday. For these and many others, religion, particularly the self-asserting, self-centered variety has become the soul of the soulless condition called "Nigeria". I have attached a PhD dissertation  on Losers' Chapel A.K.A. Winners' Firm. (If the dissertation is too long and windy to read, take a quick glimpse on the two other essays on the soul of Nigerian Losers' Chapel Praxis. If we know where this character is coming from we may get to understand his trickery and the magnitude of his falsehood and practices. No-one need be afraid of a super-fraudster and his gang of day-light robbers. Segun should find out i) why every "pastor" Mr Oyedepo sends to South Africa had eventually left the church-firm to establish his own pleasure empire! ii) why does Mr Oyedepo compel all his "pastors" to swear an oath of secrecy to him so that they do not divulge details of what they find out in the "pleasure empire to outsiders; iii) why _The Commission: Administrative Handbook_ (2003) of Winners' Chapel is not in mass circulation. This book is the secret details of how this MNC called Winners' (no, Losers') Chapel is run like a corporation!!!! (I have a photocopy of in case Segun Ogungbemi needs to make a duplicate from it). We need to begin planning an edited volume on "Bad Pastors: Clergy Misconduct in Nigeria"; there is already a volume for modern America: _Bad Pastors: Clergy Misconduct in Modern America_ edited by Anson Shupe, William A. Stacey & Susan E, Darnell (New York University Press, 2000).

XI

[Chidi Anthony Opara]

"I have watched the video clips and at first I did not know why Oyedepo beat the lady. But the second time I watched it, the lady told the Bishop that she was a witch for Jesus or Christ. That statement could infuriate the Bishop or it could be that the Man of God found that the confession was anti-Christ or that the woman did not know what she was saying or she was crazy or mad hence the need for a spiritual healing and as the Holy Spirit directed the Bishop the best way to restore the sanity of the woman was by divine beating.
Don't forget some mad people who go for healing traditionally receive beating as part of the therapy. So that of Bishop Oyedepo might be having a similar therapeutic healing method which the woman needed. Did the woman take offense by the beating she received? What she wanted was a complete healing. Did she receive healing after being beaten. In my opinion that should be our major concern. If she got healed, the woman would not bother about the method used to get her well. What she wanted was healing  or deliverance and she got it.
So if that be the case, what is the use of the intellectual discourse which has no meaning to the woman? We do not understand the religious language game of the Church and for us to judge Bishop Oyedepo is morally unwarranted."

----Segun Ogungbemi.

Assuming the above is not a satire, the question is; would it be acceptable if, for instance, the "Holy Spirit directs" that "an anointed man of God" should insert his finger into the private part of a woman who is barren for "spiritual healing"?

----Chidi.

About Me

---

From: Segun <Segun...@yahoo.com>
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 7:43 PM

Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Bishop Oyedepo and his Congregation : The Method of Healing

[Mogashoa, Moroka]

This message (and attachments) is subject to restrictions and a disclaimer. Please refer to http://www.unisa.ac.za/disclaimer for full details.

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Greetings,

 

Here are my impressions about the video:

 

The young lady is saying: “I am not a witch, but I am a wish for Jesus”. In other words, she is saying: “I wish for Jesus” meaning “I want to get saved and to become a Christian”.

 

In short, few factors are at hand here:

 

1.      The young lady is clearly not conversant in English.

2.      The young lady is not from an affluent background. This is evident by the clothing & her simple natural hair (“undone” with money commanding hair products or wigs. [I use “undone respectfully.]).

3.      The young  lady’s pronouncing of English words is not very clear. When she says “wish” it sounds like “witch”.

4.      The fact that the young lady tries again to explain her herself, it is a clear indication that she can see that she has been misunderstood. Thus, she also tries to use her left hand and fingers to explain, but still she is not being given a chance to be understood.

5.      Painful to notice in the row kneeling in the front are also children for whom such public humiliation will haunt them.

6.      Usually when the first person has been this humiliated, the second in the row in thinking twice whether coming to the front was a right decision or not. (Please note her gestures, ...). But because she is already kneeling down in public view of all, it is difficult for the second (and further) in the row to stand and return to her seat. For them, the humiliation will be worse and will be seen as part of the “crew” of the evil spirits accompanying the first person who has been clapped

7.      There are many factors I can explain from the mere observation of this short video, but time to type them, does not allow me.

8.      Coming to the Bishop: In short, it is a “dangerous self ego” that is in charge. The fact that he asks the young lady: “Do you know who you are talking to?” means, God has been put aside and him has the Bishop is now in charge. Why do I say this? It is because I am certain God will not clap you for not knowing how to pronounce English words well.

9.      Also, the Bishop here did not think like a Bishop. He should have quickly thought on his feet the young lady is struggling with English, thus should have asked to the young lady to speak in her native language and the many assistants standing next to him, one of them should be able to interpret the message.

10.  The purpose of a Christian leader it is to save souls and people in order for their lives to be better and not to send people to hell.

11.  The Bishop humiliated the young girl because she does not fit into the “target market” of the church. Why am I saying this? I am certain if it was one of the wealthy who knelt there in the front row, and was a well known by the Bishop as a giver to the church, and they did not pronounce well (the difference between “witch” and “wish”) – they would NOT have been clapped.

12.  Further worrying is the “mass psychology damage” this clapping reveals about the church. After the clapping the most sound we get is of the people rejoicing than to be shocked. Majority of the people are not asking: “How can the Bishop can do this? This is bad.” Not at all. Most in the church seemed not shocked. The Bishop’s assistants on the stage, also look at ease with the clapping. So much more I can comment on this. Time does not allow.

13.  It is painful to note that the church approves the abuse of the poor to impress the members and “stage entertained audience” filing the pews. Why am I saying this? Do note the use of the microphone when people are “coming to the stage for deliverance”. People are caught off guard and are forced to say the things they did not plan to say. Worse, many of the people are stage shy and all of a sudden they have to speak in-front of thousands? Won’t they panic? Most probably they will.

14.  Let us not forget that the reason that the people went to the front, it because there was an inviting question for them to come to the front. For example: “Is there anyone who would like to receive Jesus? Please come to the front.” Now, the people went to the front not knowing they shall be made a spectacle.  

15.  Please do recheck how often and in what way the church might re-flight the video. Do recheck that the video will not be re-doctored if the church feels pressure from the civil society.

 

NB: More than the email discussion, I believe the civil society in Nigeria needs to take up this cause seriously and without hesitation to ensure that the Bishop does apologize and recompense for the damage (psychological, etc) he did to this young lady. One of the ways to recompense must be for the Bishop to pay for the schooling, professional development and economic improvement of the life of this young lady. This recompense will prevent any church leaders to misuse their authority and the trust the people have.

 

I trust that the few points above do contribute something.

 

Regards,

Prof Humphrey Mogashoa

South Africa

[Segun]

It is expected of a scholar to give an objective view and not necessarily judgmental particularly on a religious matter like that of Bishop Oyedepo. What you see on the screen sometimes may be photo-trick and that is why objectivity is the right approach. Furthermore, religious matters must be approached with caution. I think Wittgenstein is right when he argues that religious language game is best understood by it's group and we cannot criticize them.

In the case of Oyedepo the question you should asked, if you care at all, is whether what he did to the woman is part of their religious language game that could  lead to her deliverance or healing?

The woman could on her volition sue Oyedepo to court if she felt her right had been violated. In that case we have a moral obligation to defend her. But as long as she has not shown any sign of being abused morally and legally, we should avoid sentiments and misconstrued intellectual judgment.

I do not expect a junior colleague like you  to address an experienced Professor of long teaching in various institutions in the US, Nigeria, Kenya etc. 

Let us make our contributions with objectivity and respect, and that is part of scholarship. 

Sent from my iPhone

[diji...@yahoo.com]

I have taken keen interest in the many postings on this subject matter and come to the conclusion that many are merely excited at the prospect of bringing an acclaimed personality down. Now that the futility of the efforts of the fake human right activists who possibly cannot defend similar happenings under their roof with same fervour have become obvious, can we have another issue for the professional commentators to take on? Due apology to a few friends who I know entered the debate on the spur of the moment. The language of the spirit will never be understood by the canal. You can be a long standing Professor or intellectual, if sentiments rule a little aspect of your life, you will miss it some of the time. My prayer is that the injunction of touch not my annointing and do my Prophet no arm will not rest on the one who coined the phrase "Monster" Pastor to describe an enigma like Bishop Oyedepo. I am sure if you ask someone like Professor Michael Omolewa who has being to the pinacle of education career /enterprise, words of wisdom will flow and perhaps mercy will abide to those who have spoken like champions of the oppressed in matters of spiritual cleansing. May I ask these people to direct more energy to occupy the Nigerian white house "Aso Rock" and save us at home from youth restiveness, daily armed robbery by jobless youths who get nothing but further pain in fuel subsidy removal... another instrument of oppression. Let us have people talk about the teeming youths wasting away with their future overtaken by planlessness and indecency in governance. Bishop Oyedepo has contributed more to nation's healing process than those of us arm chair critics. He does not need to be defended: so I am not defending him. I am expecting people to leave issues and embark on needless talk, such will not find offence in me. I forgive them even before they commit sin.
Prof AD Aina
Adeleke University
Ede, Nigeria

Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN

---

From: Segun <Segun...@yahoo.com>

Sender: usaafric...@googlegroups.com

Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 21:22:56 +0100

To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com<usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: usaafric...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Bishop Oyedepo and his Congregation : The Method of Healing

[kenneth harrow]

dear segun
maybe we can't criticize a religion's language game, but we can its actions, ethics, and principles. i don't know of any sect or belief system that is above criticism from non-adherents. i can say to you, don't criticize my religion, if you do you are a bigot. and if my religion says, women to the back of the bus, women shut up during services, women  cower in the presence of your superiors, then i will have to choose between my allegiance to another belief system, which we can call the women's movement if you like, and the principle of non-interference.
personally i go for maximum critique, especially when we are back to women being accused of being witches and suffering punishments as a result. or children ditto--with the deaths of accused children having occurred in kinshasa this year.
as far as our interference depending on the woman in question complaining, you can say that this applies to slavery as well. these are fallacious arguments that propose that only those who are members of a community have the right to criticize.
what if our community is all of us?
ken

-- 
kenneth w. harrow 
distinguished professor of english
michigan state university
department of english
east lansing, mi 48824-1036
ph. 517 803 8839
har...@msu.edu

[Segun]

Thanks for the effort being made to expose the bad deeds of African pastors. 

Let me inform our wide readers or audience that I am not a Christian and I have no personal connection with Pastor Oyedepo. As a matter of fact, five copies of my little book titled, A Critique of African Cultural Beliefs, which some readers have read and erroneously concluded that I am anti-Christianity or an atheist were donated by me to his Covenant University a few years ago.

I am interested in the proposed book and possibly I can contribute a little of my knowledge to it.

 As a philosopher we take a critical view and hardly pass judgments unless the issue has been thoroughly subjected to rational and empirical investigations and the evidence is morally and epistemologically convincing.   

In the case of Oyedepo, we must tread gingerly because the matter deals with personal conviction and faith of an individual. If you take a utilitarian approach and ask whether what Oyedepo did actually maximized the greatest good for the greatest number of his church members I will not be surprised if the answer is yes. If that be the case, the woman in question no matter her economic status, the probable reason she went to that church was for deliverance.

 Looking at it more sympathetically, it could be the case that the major cause of the woman's problem is poverty and ignorance which the state should have taken care of but the state has failed and she turned to a church for help not knowing possibly that her problem was not spiritual but physical. 

You know many of our people quickly turn to God for any minor or complex issues which require a solution using our brain to find an answer. Mental laziness is one of the problems we face in Africa and that's why the Church is waxing very strong instead of scientific and technological breakthrough that could take us out of our present predicament. 

Once again, I thank you all for your comments. 

 

Sent from my iPhone

XI

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<Winners' Chapel2007.pdf>

<Ukah.Piety & Profit Pt2(2007).pdf>

<Ukah.Piety &Profit Pt1(2007).pdf>

[Olabode Ibironke]

Dear Professor Aina:

 

If you read the bible at all, you would have come across the passage, “Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons.” Slapping or beating people for deliverance is a practice associated with exorcism that was never part of the tradition of the early church.  You and professor Segun miss the point to think that Oyedepo’s slapping of the young lady was a part of any spiritual ritual. Oyedepo was angered by a statement he considered blasphemous, that is all. This goes to the temperament of Oyedepo as a person not to any spirituality of any sort. Oyedepo’s violent reaction to the statement “I am a witch for Jesus” shows he cannot control his temper. His action is “carnal” and NOT Christian. Anyone who practices, (oyedepo) or advocates (segun and aina) violence as a legitimate Christian response to “sacrilege”  is a dangerous MONSTER.

 

Bode

[Amatoritsero Ede]

Dear Sir,

Tread gingerly where? This thieves masquerading as pastors who slap physically and symbolically  need a sound thrashing themselves - by progressive and radical resistance to their ideological excesses. We have the proof of the recent but brutish history of pentecostalism in Nigeria to not waste time 'treading gingerly.' The man, 'Oledepo' is guilty. He even went back to boast on his TV show of having slapped  a witch, who came back behind the scenes to beg him. He considered that plea for understanding by the assaulted as a bowing of the forces of local witchcraft to his own superior 'divine powers. These so-called pastors are merely occultists. There is not much difference btween the thieving politicians and the receiver of stolen goods in the form of tithes - pastors. Between the state and t he clergy, Nigeria has been decimated economically, politically, in terms of decayed infrastructure, and a broken system. The citizenry as impoverished to such subhuman level that a postor is so powerful he can slap anyone on TV and go back to boast about. He is not spiritual at all... he is an occultist, hoodwinking a comatose and poor citizenry. This case does not need any philosophical exegesis. Look at Goodluck - eh , I mean 'Badluck' Jonathan -  kneeling before pastors to ask for God to guide him, instead getting involved in practical lessons in statecraft, and you will realise that Africa is in trouble indeed. Can you imagine any other presidency outside Africa where the leader asks God to do the leading? So hypnotized by occult religion is the whole country. But more importantly the pastor and the president are partners in crime. So it is meet... birds of the same feather.

Amatoritsero

For previous archives, visit http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html

[Olaolu Akande]

While I cannot join in calling a Man of God, a monster, and would also refrain from any form of public hanging, I have struggled personally with this slapping matter and what I cannot get past, I mean one of the main contentions that the Bishop would have had to really honestly deal with in His closet is Titus 1:7-a Bishop should not strike such a slap!

If we are to be truly constructive, regardless of what the video has shown, I think there should be an opportunity first offered the Bishop to take this action back-something I imagine he might embrace if lovingly offered.

Hanging the Bishop here without seeking out some form of objective resolution is a mere show, and if we must go beyond mere arm-chair critics, there must be a way to engage some of this issues constructively.

Laolu Akande

Sent from my iPad

[diji...@yahoo.com]

Dear Bro Bode. Thank you very much for creating many more monsters of those expressing legitimate opinion that simply did not tally with your worldview. Only the deep will get to the deep so a popular quote says. I cannot contest depth of knowledge but can advise that we simply show more understanding of other people's opinion. I hope you will still be able to sit by my side if we meet in a church in the nearest future. Stay blessed sir.
Diji

Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN

---

From: "Olabode Ibironke" <ibir...@msu.edu>

Sender: usaafric...@googlegroups.com

Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 13:24:36 -0500

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ReplyTo: usaafric...@googlegroups.com

Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Bishop Oyedepo and his Congregation : The Method of Healing

[Farooq A. Kperogi]

Perhaps Segun and Aina can also explain this divine healing:

Nigerian prophet, Efe Ese, claiming to exorcise evil spirits with his penis, arrested

16/12/2011 10:29:00

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A self-styled Nigerian prophet, Efe Ese, who claims he specialises in exorcising evil spirits with his penis, has found himself in the grips of the police after stealing from one of his victims.

Efe, by his trade, hypnotised women he prophesied to and lured them into believing that they were tormented by evil spirits.

He told them he had to have sex with them so he could exorcise all the demons which, he claimed, were responsible for all their misfortunes.

The lid was however blown off his activities when he bolted with a digital camera and a laptop computer during a prayer session with one of his victims after a hot bout of sex.

The Divisional Crime Officer of Tesano, ASP Stephen Donyina Kyeremeh, said on Wednesday December 7, 2011, at about 5pm, the suspect met one of his victims at Alajo where she was about boarding a bus.

He confronted her with some prophesies of happenings in her life which she admitted were true.

The sexy prophet then continued that the lady needed prayers urgently so they had to return to her abode.

The lady aborted her errand and took the strange man to her house at Alajo.

In the cause of the prayer, the self-styled prophet managed to convince his victim to have sex with him in order to exorcise some evil spirits which were presumably tormenting her life.

After satisfying his libido, this dialogue took place:

Prophet: Which of your possessions is very dear to your heart?

Lady: My digital camera and my laptop computer. They are gifts from a relation abroad.

Prophet: The items were possessed by some evil spirits before they were sent to you.

The camera and the laptop ought to be cleansed because according to the prophet, they were the remote causes of her problem, telling her to bring them.

His victim, like a lamb being taken to the slaughter slab, obediently brought the items and another prayer session began.

While the victim was busily praying, the suspect bolted with the computer and the laptop.

In the middle of the prayer, the woman opened her eyes and to her shock, she was alone.

After several hours of waiting, she gave up until a week later, Wednesday, December 14, when Ese called the woman on her phone.

The sexy prophet, who did not know that his plan had been uncovered, told his victim that he had seriously been working on exorcising the evil spirits from the two items but the spirits were so recalcitrant so he would need another bout of sex to speed up the process.

The victim, who had then become aware of the suspect’s intentions, informed the police who ambushed him.

At the appointed time, when Efe showed up, he was arrested and whisked to the Tesano Divisional Police Station where he admitted to the offence and handed over the camera and the laptop to the police.

A search through the camera showed nude photographs of several women suspected to be his victims.

ASP Kyeremeh said while the police was yet to charge him, a female caller who was later invited to the police station came to corroborate a similar event between her and the suspect.

The second victim told the police she had come to remit the suspect, adding that usually after their sex escapades and prayers, she remitted the sexy pastor for his effort in exorcising the so-called evil spirits which she was made to believe tormented her.

http://news1.ghananation.com/index.php?news=238382

Farooq A. Kperogi, Ph.D.

Assistant Professor of Journalism & Citizen Media
Department of Communication
Kennesaw State University
1000 Chastain Road, MD 2207 

Kennesaw, Georgia, USA 30144
Cell:  (+1) 404-573-969:
Personal website: www.farooqkperogi.com

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/farooqkperogi

Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/farooqkperogi

"The nice thing about pessimism is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised." G. F. Will

[Segun]

The Lord Jesus the Christ taught his disciples that if anyone slapped them on the right cheek they should turn the left one to him. Jesus did not tell his disciples to behave the way some of the critics of Oyedepo have behaved in this matter. 

Christianity is a syncretic religion and being so there are practices that became part of its tradition. If at the time the disciples began the spreading  of the gospel they had not practiced divine slapping as part of deliverance, under the new dispensation which Oyedepo is part of, it has become a way of life of deliverance: Why must anyone crucify Oyedepo?

I don't know Oyedepo as a person neither have I had any dealings with him to know about his temperament. For those of you who know him well enough,  you can let us have details about the man and find out whether he is truly the kind of person you think he is but don't let is use one instance to condemn the man of God. That is my humble position. 

Sent from my iPhone

[Segun]

Kenneth:

Thanks for the comment that we may not criticize the language game but we can criticize the act. 

The issue at hand is a religious one and we cannot generalize it. We need not take it out of its context. 

What if you take Oyedepo to court and the woman says the man of God has not done anything wrong. What must we say? The religious aspect of the woman and the existential nature of the case make it more difficult to deal with. 

If the woman comes out and says she has been abused by Oyedepo then we have an obligation to fight for the woman. We cannot cry more than the bereaved.

If the case is like the killing of twins as it was practiced in some part of the country in the last century of course that cannot be tolerated because of our belief on sanctity of life. If Oyedepo has no respect for sanctity of life you will see the revolts of the members of the church.

 I am aware and I still remember the case of the religious zealots in Waco,Texas USA and the one before that in Guyana in which over 900 followers of James Jones were poisoned and died. 
I don't think we need to go to the extent of calling international comity to isolate Oyedepo as canvassed by some of his critics. We need to be careful the kind of utterances and judgment we make as scholars and intellectuals if we want to be relevant to the society.  
Sent from my iPhone

[Olabode Ibironke]

Sir,

 

You and others have to join in vigorous opposition to Oyedepo and others who are taking the country, and indeed sub-Saharan  Africa back to the dark ages. Faith is good but not blind belief. That girl is God’s daughter too. If I were Oyedepo I would be more worried about this: “But the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, "Because you did not trust me enough to demonstrate my holiness to the people of Israel, you will not lead them into the land I am giving them!" Moses, we understand, did not strike a person, he angrily struck a rock!!! So, it is not those of us who are critics of Oyedepo “the anointed” that should watch our backs, it is Oyedepo who should be afraid of being barred from the promised land. He hung himself publicly, not his critics. His action is undignified, they criticism the orthodox churches but they are worse. Can you imagine any catholic bishop striking someone as Oyedepo did?

[Segun]

Bishop Oyedepo is not the kind of person you have written. Oyedepo established two Universities in this country and my understanding is that his church provides job employment for people and no student in any of his institutions has been caught in immoral behavior. 

We should not compare orange with apple. Oyedepo is above those levels of improper behavior. And the kind of personalities you compare him with to say the least us an insult. 

May we have another issue of national interest to deal with henceforth. 

Sent from my iPhone

[basil ugochukwu]

Dear Segun,

I don't seem to understand the distinction you are trying so desperately to draw. What you are saying is: sexual assault as a form of deliverance as practiced by the "man of god" here is bad but physical assault as practiced by Oyedepo ( another "man of god" elsewhere) is good! But both are "men of god". So why should we condemn one and approve the other?

Basil

 

---

From: Segun <Segun...@yahoo.com>
To: "usaafric...@googlegroups.com" <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 6:08:30 PM

[basil ugochukwu]

So Oyedepo can unilaterally re-write the Bible by injecting into it a kind of deliverance that Jesus Christ himself did not even contemplate. In fact, that is what this particular "man of god" and others of his ilk have done: re-write the Holy Book to suit a mercantilist, opportunistic methodology. If we accept this "syncretic" variant of Christianity that you advocate, it will be to every "man of god" what he considers traditional and acceptable which is very much what we are having presently: an all comers affair! But as a self-respecting Christian who understands his right as such, I reject such theory with proportionate vehemence. I do so because you are most likely going to be the first to tell us that God is not an author of confusion which is exactly what your brand of syncretism translates to: total chaos and disorder!

Basil

Basil

 

---

From: Segun <Segun...@yahoo.com>
To: "usaafric...@googlegroups.com" <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 4:33:47 PM

[kenneth harrow]

dear segun
i agree with your example of the twins; in the states, it is child abuse not to have a child treated medically properly if its health/life is at stake. i don't think (this is my guess) that you can say, it is my religion not to give him antibiotics, and then see the child die.
in any event, if it isn't the law, it should be, in my opinion. so, i can't cry more than the bereaved, true, but the state itself can charge someone with a crime whether or not the victim presses charges, depending on the severity of the offense.
the issues are often completely not clear cut. without going into details, i would say that female circumcision/female genital cutting is one such issue; and in this case, the outlawing of the practice in senegal was imposed by outside agencies, and had no impact on local practices. but when local senegalese women took up the issue a few years ago, despite initial resistance, they finally began to have an impact.
laws without sanction are meaningless, and sanctioning has to come, ultimately, from the community. so in this case, besides the community of the church, there is the community of the larger society that has to decide what is to be tolerated or not.
finally, there is us--listserv commentator types--who weigh in. rather than regarding that as intrusive i think of it as a sharing of views across the larger intellectual community that we collectively form. we are relevant to the members of the listserv, and it itself is relevant to the larger conversations that go on concerning africa. in that strange way i believe our voices have an impact.

ken

On 12/21/11 3:26 PM, Segun wrote:

Kenneth:

Thanks for the comment that we may not criticize the language game but we can criticize the act. 

The issue at hand is a religious one and we cannot generalize it. We need not take it out of its context. i think

[alem...@yahoo.com]

Now, Prof Segun, your 'legal' argument is ridiculous. If assault, is a crime, (and intentional slapping aimed at hurting the victim, is an assaul)t, the bishop can be convicted in a court even if the lady claimed to enjoy it.
Crime in Nigeria is a trangression against the state. Conviction can be secured on the basis of evidence of the act. Note that persons are convicted for murder without the victim.
When did beating became a Christian tradition? Are there now standards in the Bible to distinguish between Christian practices and unchristian and occultic practices?
In your attempt to defend an individual - philosophically as a non-christian, as you declared -- be careful not to distort Christianity by referring to it as a syncretic religion, which by implication can condone anything.
Etannibi

Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless handheld from Glo Mobile.

---

From: Segun <Segun...@yahoo.com>

Sender: usaafric...@googlegroups.com

Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 21:26:28 +0100

To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com<usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: usaafric...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Bishop Oyedepo and his Congregation : The Method of Healing

[alem...@yahoo.com]

Oga Segun.
I guess one of the problems people had with your Initial contribution pertains to your view that only the lady that was slapped can legitimately complain. There are so many circumstances in which people are victims of violent persons with whom they are unable to severe relationship. That will not be an excuse for neighbours to fold their arms and do nothing. That is why child abuse, spouse beating, human trafficking, etc are condemned.
If Nigeria is governed properly, health care and eduncational systems will improve with respect to the quality, variety and scope of service delivery; poverty, illiteracy and ignorance will decline and demand for "blessing and deliverance" by exploitative, oppressive, violent and fake pastors will diminish.
Bad governance is the major source of different types of human vulnerabilities that are witnessed in Nigeria at present.

Etannibi

Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless handheld from Glo Mobile.

---

From: Segun <Segun...@yahoo.com>

Sender: usaafric...@googlegroups.com

Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 11:29:21 +0100

To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com<usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: usaafric...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Bishop Oyedepo and his Congregation : The Method of Healing

For previous archives, visit http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html

[xena iris]

Dear Profs. Aina,

Your post below (on 'touch not my anointed and do my prophet no harm') amounts to a "spiritual blackmail" and intimidation! More importantly, it is an attempt to avoid the issues under discussion. No one is interested in bringing down "an acclaimed personality": you need to first addressed the actions and behavior of this so-called "acclaimed personality"; do not try to force us to look at Aso Rock. It is people like Nigeria's pentecostal entrepreneurs who have demonstrated unabashed support for "Aso Rock" just so they could collect rent from its occupiers. If Mr. Oyedepo does not print money, he and his likes should tell the public the sources of their wealth; there is nothing sacrilegious in insisting that he should account for his public behavior. And to Segun, with due respect, it is NOT the case (it is in fact illogical!) that a thief is not a thief until s/he is caught and disgraced: As a matter of fact empirical study of Winners Chapel, its clergy both serving and former would convince you that Oyedepo is NOT the "man of God" you make him out to be! If you do not want to see what you do not want to see, you should at least NOT try blackmailing those who are interested in looking, searching and seeing! To support the rich and powerful against the poor and weak is NO bravery.

best,

XI

[gbens...@yahoo.com]

Mr. Segun you said "Oyedepo established two Universities in this country and my understanding is that his church provides job employment for people and no student in any of his institutions has been caught in immoral behavior".

That students in the institutions have not been caught does not mean that they are not immoral. It was one of the schools that made it mandatory for female students to undergo pregnancy tests on or before admission as a result of the rate at which female students in the school get pregnant. It was wildly criticised in the media. Your thought is highly sentimental and I will buy non of it.

Ask around from young men who are currently dating some of the girls from these schools or at one time or the other dated them, they will testify to the miraculous ways these girls have assess to exit passes that grant them access to the outside world at will.

Please if you claim that Oyedepo is above those levels of improper behaviour, do you mean to say that slapping a young girl in the face of the world is a proper behaviour? Even if the girl was actually a witch he should have controlled his anger. He was extremely canal in his action and I am certain that God Himself was embarrassed because he was carnally propelled.

Shikena.

Gbenga Dasylva

Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN

---

From: Segun <Segun...@yahoo.com>

Sender: usaafric...@googlegroups.com

Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 00:08:30 +0100

[gbens...@yahoo.com]

Mr. Segun, the slap apart, did you hear what he uttered? The height of arrogance? "you are not set for deliverance you must rot I'm hell...."
Did you not hear that?

His physical action and subsequent utterances to the people that came out for the altar call do not make him a fan of any right thinking man.

Gbenga Dasylva

Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN

---

From: gbens...@yahoo.com

Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 01:26:49 +0000

To: USAAfric...@googlegroups.com<USAAfric...@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: gbens...@yahoo.com

Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Bishop Oyedepo and his Congregation : The Method of Healing

Mr. Segun you said "Oyedepo established two Universities in this country and my understanding is that his church provides job employment for people and no student in any of his institutions has been caught in immoral behavior".

That students in the institutions have not been caught does not mean that they are not immoral. It was one of the schools that made it mandatory for female students to undergo pregnancy tests on or before admission as a result of the rate at which female students in the school get pregnant. It was wildly criticised in the media. Your thought is highly sentimental and I will buy non of it.

Ask around from young men who are currently dating some of the girls from these schools or at one time or the other dated them, they will testify to the miraculous ways these girls have assess to exit passes that grant them access to the outside world at will.

Please if you claim that Oyedepo is above those levels of improper behaviour, do you mean to say that slapping a young girl in the face of the world is a proper behaviour? Even if the girl was actually a witch he should have controlled his anger. He was extremely canal in his action and I am certain that God Himself was embarrassed because he was carnally propelled.

Shikena.

Gbenga Dasylva

Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN

---

From: Segun <Segun...@yahoo.com>

Sender: usaafric...@googlegroups.com

Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 00:08:30 +0100

[Segun]

Gentleman: 

Jesus told his disciples that if a man slapped them on the right cheek they should turn the left  cheek. Going by this example Jesus did not advocate going to court for redress. The teaching of Jesus on this occasion resonate in my mind the principle of pacifism. The society needs peace and not conflict or retaliation that will escalate conflict. 

You Christians must learn to follow what the founder of the Church taught his disciples and the followers.  

Sent from my iPhone

[Segun]

The study of church history will tell you that Christianity is a syncretic religion. 

Sent from my iPhone

[Amatoritsero Ede]

The Bible has to be historised and not read with wisdom. I think sometimes people understand scripture too literally. Should that poor girl have turned the other cheek to be hit once more? Scripture should read according to time, place and circumstance. Jesus did it by eating on the sabbath, saying: 'The law is made for man and not man for the law. The point is that you are not getting the fact that not all who says lord lord...etc. That man  has no spiritual bone in his body as far as i am concerned. He has a lot of religion up his stiff collar, yes. But no spirituality. And the problem with Nigeria is not only bad leadership but colluding Christendom. The religion has outlived its usefulness from pedophile priest to violent and greedy pastor living in disgraceful opulence while the common man lives under the bridge. 

Amatoritsero

[Segun]

I must let you know that I can't remember if I heard that. Perhaps I need to listened to it again.

Thanks. 

Sent from my iPhone

[xena iris]

Segun:

I think this discussion is becoming absurd. Christianity is syncretic (otherwise we wouldn't be celebrating the birth of Christ in December) that to argue that "slapping" is not becoming ritualised as a new aspect of Christianity is unacceptable. And, you need to establish the authority of Mr. Oyedepo to modify and syncretise "christianity" for popular consumption. If you are recommending the slapped and abused and assaulted girl to accept the (divine)slap she received in good faith and turn the second cheek, why do you NOT condemn the slap-giver as "immoral" and unChrist-like? What are you hiding here or defending? Consider the degree of conflicts caused or instigated by pentecostal entrepreneurs whose greed have led into all manner of evil. Begin to clean the fountain from its source.

XI

[Chika Onyeani]

www.africansuntimes.com

ABDOULAYE WADE: A PRESIDENT FOR THE AFRICAN DIASPORA

 

 

President Abdoulaye Wade of Senegal, champion of the African Diaspora

 

I just returned early this morning from a 5-day visit to Senegal to attend the World Summit of Mayors, where many black Mayors from the United States met with their African countries from different countries of Africa.  The visit reminded that I was just in Senegal in May with the Africa Travel Association's 36th Congress on tourism to Senegal in particular and Africa in general.....

 

Unquestionably, there is no doubt that African leaders are trying to reach out to the African Diaspora, but practically all of them are more interested in their own respective country Diaspora.  What is needed are African leaders who are willing to join in empowering the African Diaspora like President Wade has done and is doing.  There should be less discussions and meetings upon meetings and more actions.  If I were asked to cast my vote right today, I would cast it for President Abdoulaye Wade as the champion of the African Renaissance and as the President of the United States of Africa that we are yet to have.

 

CONTINUE READING

[Segun]

You are probably correct. In Western Europe today people don't go to church unlike the early and middle of the last century. Guess why? Poverty, illiteracy,  diseases, hunger etc have been subjugated. Scientific and technological discoveries that brought employment plus better understanding of the world have brought salvation to the people and not the kind of environment we find ourselves. 

We have refused to change. We have not allowed philosophical principles to guide our ways of doing things. We remain stagnated and allow  religiosity of all sorts to gain control over our people. That in a nutshell explains the backwardness of our people.  

We must use our natural faculty to find simple and complex solutions to our problems rather than running to churches for spiritual haven which in my opinion is self deceptive. 

Sent from my iPhone

[Segun]

From what I have read in terms of your reactions it  appears you guys have an axe to grind with Oyedepo. I don't want to be a party to it. 

If you want to deal with him, please don't use the case of the poor woman to get at him. Jesus taught his disciples the way of love and forgiveness. Outside the confines of love that Jesus taught his disciples our interpretations will be irrelevant. 

You have some details of his pedigree and profile plus his excesses then take  him to court but don't be the accuser and the judge. 

Sent from my iPhone

[kenneth harrow]

this is a good example of tourist politics: the view of a country from the viewpoint of the instant expert who has passed through, seen what the govt wants him to see, pronounces his flattering words about the President, and leaves satisfied with his african experience.
meanwhile, on the street, which the tourist has not had time or interest to see, the pavements still echo the cries of the late protest
david diop wrote, oh africa, my africa....
save us from the tourist's pronouncements
ken

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kenneth w. harrow 
distinguished professor of english
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east lansing, mi 48824-1036
ph. 517 803 8839
har...@msu.edu

[alem...@yahoo.com]

Prof Segun. You forgot that Christ repeatedly condemned Pharisees and chased out money-mongers from the temple. Your understanding of criminal jurisprudence is limited. No one needs to go to court before suspected criminals are arrested and prosecuted by appropriate criminal justice officials.

The issues at stake in this discussion are rascality and impunity by religious leaders, decent and civil conduct of citizens and human right to dignity.

Did Christ beat or humilated those he delivered? Did Christ commanded beating? Remenber how Christ treated the lady accused of adultery. Also remember how Christ delivered persons possessed by evil spirits. Were they beaten? For those of us who are Christians, Christ is the author and finisher of our faith. Is the archbishop above Christ or is he practicing a different religion under the guise of Christianity?
The Bible is clear, in the last days, there shall be proliferation of false prophets parading themseves as agents of light, performing wonders, deceiving and being deceived. Beware!

Etannibi

Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless handheld from Glo Mobile.

---

From: Segun <Segun...@yahoo.com>

Sender: usaafric...@googlegroups.com

Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 03:01:58 +0100

[Amatoritsero Ede]

You make it sound as if we are persecuting the 'anointed' ? My point is that this guy is not anointed. 'By their fruits ye shall know them.' What happened was criminal assault in any sane society. Pure and simple. I could get nails and knock a shed together and declare that i am anointed; start a church. Everyone is a pastors these days. The biggest 419 church is the Nigerian church. period. Jesus would not have slapped that  girl. He would have compassion. Remember Jesus and the prostitute woman? He let her touch his garment. The crowd wanted to stone her, and he said 'you who have not sinned cast the  first stone,' and everyone froze. Africa is moving ever backwards into the middle ages with religion that is meant to immobilize, confuse, obfuscate. This is pre-logical mind at work. Why dont Oyedeopo pray and magically there will constant electricity. Will praying repair the economy? Instead of work, we waste time with prayers. See how far it is getting us? That country is close to civil war, and breakdown of law and order with boko Haram and all. Christianity helped in pushing it that far, as much as islam has helped. In one breath you mention philosophy and at the same you urge us to succumb to superstition. But this is a gathering of intellectuals, whose mind have been trained rigorously to decontruct all self-serving discourses. This is the problem. You have the wrong crowd. If you are a philosopher the core of philosophy is logic. surely you have read Levy Bruhl  and his idea of the pre.logical mind or even Hegel and his idea that Africa has no rational way of seeing the world. You are agreeing with them. If we had kept to our own religions we wont be in this sorry state. But then a conquered people remain enslaved only because of the mental shifts which they cannot seem to re-direct. You are urging us - against deductive logic, to use superstition as a basis for analysis. I wonder if you are a 'professor', really - and a professor of philosophy too! Something is not right here. Surely, as a philosopher, you also know about Max Weber's and Friedrich Schiller idea of the dis-enchantment of the world. You are asking us to get re-enchanted. Lets even begin to deconstruct christianity. It is foreign to Africa, so is islam, This is one of the reason they do not work. They re-enchant the mind and arrest logic, just as logic is being arrested right now. The arrest of logic is what will make the president of a country to go and kneel down before a pastor and ask for 'anointment' to rule a 21st century nation. Does he think we live in biblical times? This is not pre-historical times. The way Africa is going now at this point it will always remain at the bottom of the ladder with this superstitious and 13-century thinking. Even religious texts have to be contextualised. Time never stood still. 

Amatoritsero

[diji...@yahoo.com]

Bro Bode
In elementary christianity the Rock that Moses struck was God. Also the girl in need of deliverance is a god. While God cannot be corrected, the gods can be corrected. Again I counsel no logic will establish the judgement many seek to pass on the man of God. Infact many of his church members including sound/credible intellectuals will be amused by this raging debate. Stay blessed bro.

Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN

---

From: "Olabode Ibironke" <ibir...@msu.edu>

Sender: usaafric...@googlegroups.com

Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 17:37:13 -0500

[diji...@yahoo.com]

Thank you my dear brother. Like I said, only the deep can go deeper. If many of our arm-chair critics will visit Bishop Oyedepo church at Ota and personally observe God blessings passed down to our generation through the man they seek to gain international recognition (which can better be done via quality research as academics) they will be forced to offer paid apologies. I have never attended Bishop Oyedepos church but I have listened to many of his messages on tape and attended two convocation ceremony at Covenant University, I can clearly counsel that uninformed academics should stay clear of the spiritual. Go to Omu-Aran in Kwara state and see what his new University (Landmark Univ) is turning the sprawling town to. We will only need to ask God for forgiveness for comments wittingly or unwittingly made so far. Merry Xmas to you all!
Professor AD Aina
President/VC Adeleke University, Ede, Osun State, Nigeria.

Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN

---

From: Segun <Segun...@yahoo.com>

Sender: usaafric...@googlegroups.com

Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 21:26:28 +0100

To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com<usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: usaafric...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Bishop Oyedepo and his Congregation : The Method of Healing

[Amatoritsero Ede]

regarding  the below, I insist the Oyedepo is not a man of God. I saw what i saw. You keep talking about 'God' as if you saw him/her/it physically, as if it were your neighbour. Even that word 'God', where did you get it? it is language, an arbitrary construct. You say intellectuals will be amused at Bode's arguments? Those are not intellectuals in Oyebode's church. Those wre the blind being led by the blind, hoping to go to heaven, self serving materialists and wicked people, a corrupt and rotten elite in fear for their own stomachs. leeches, and marauding, always ready to bend over backwards to make a kobo. Please stop proselytizing here. Go to church. WTF!

Amatoritsero

[toyin adepoju]

What I heard was ' I am a winch for Jesus'.

 'winch' which is the Nigerian Pidgin for 'witch'

she had first said 'i am not a winch' 

then 

' I am a winch for Jesus'.

meaning, to me, not a witch in the generally understood sense of a destructive entity but a constructive one working for Jesus.

the girl said it twice.

it was the shock of the girl insisting on that incongruity, an oxymoron that shook Oyedepo's world view, that led him to slap there girl for defiantly proclaiming an impossibility, an affront to divine reality as he understood it -the concept of a 'witch for jesus'.

Oyedepo replied, in the language of a man who sees the relevant issues only in black and white, that 'Jesus has no witches!

is it possible that the girl meant 'i wish for Jesus'?

i don't think so. the girl's physical comportment and forthright expression suggested that she was very aware of what she was doing.

even after being slapped, she repeated her assertion about her spiritual identity, if i remember the sequence well. that was what infuriated Oyedepo to exclaim something about consigning her to death. he had slapped her and she remained defiant. 

What was she doing kneeling, among other young people needing deliverance, like the poor boy who declared 'i cant stop thinking sexual thoughts?'

was she made to go forward?  did she think she needed help? if she did, why  was she so self assertive?

beyond the shock represented by Oyedepo's reaction to the shock he received by the girl's assault on his world view, the girl's thinking needs to be understood. i wish i could talk to her.

my experience in nigeria and elsewhere  convinces me that there exists an undercurrent of spirituality many people do not acknowledge, even when they experience it.

is there not somewhere in the Gospels where Jesus disciples report to him about people healing in his name, without being among his known disciples? he answered something about 'having many who are not of this fold' or something like that.

what does this girl mean by witchcraft?

what could she mean about  being a witch for Jesus?

could she have powers like that friend of mine at the University of Benin who told me she was a witch and once seemed to project an invisible force from herself to me, a force perhaps an expression of focused emotion?

could she have powers like another female friend of mine at the University of Benin, whom, while away in Lagos from my base in Benin I sensed her spirit, her immaterial identity, enter the house i was in through the walls?

could that be an experience enabled by intense emotion,  felt in that form by myself across a vast distance?

can such experiences be deliberately  cultivated?

could she have powers like the kind i experienced once when, in my study in Benin,  visualising the numinous  ambience of the Ogba forest in Benin, i opened my eyes to see myself in an unknown place, a woman's hand on my head in benediction, rising to my feet to experience my sense of awareness of self keen enough for me to recognise that i was not dreaming even as my consciousness was not as sharp as in normal consciousness, with the experience communicating through the symbolism of the objects in the room and the woman's actions. My sense of self awareness having asserted itself and defined itself in relation to the experience, i opened my eyes to find i was in my study?

 

if one were to be a 'witch for Jesus' would that imply harnessing unusual powers to serve the ends described by the  Man of Galilee?

there is plenty of superstition in africa, but in the lore of witchcraft in africa, there is much that needs investigation, including experiential investigation.

Witchcraft  is growing steadily in the West as a magical spirituality, but except for a few self proclaimed witches like Osemwegie Ebohon in Benin-City, it is not recognised as a legitimate spiritual path in Nigeria, being the African country i am informed on to a degree. i am not implying that modern Western witchcraft and African conceptions of  witchcraft are identical, but that they share some similarities.

thanks

toyin

[Chidi Anthony Opara]

".....if one were to be a 'witch for Jesus' would that imply harnessing unusual powers to serve the ends described by the  Man of Galilee?....."

-------Toyin Adepoju

The above brings back questions I have been trying to find answers to for sometime now. The questions; Is Jesus Christ for Christians only? The wise men who came from the East, who were they? Why did they take all that trouble to visit a new born? One of the gifts given was said to symbolize priesthood, which priesthood?

Chidi.

 

About Me

---

From: toyin adepoju <toyin....@googlemail.com>
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 23, 2011 1:11 AM

[Olabode Ibironke]

Aina,

 

I see where you are coming from. So, Oyedepo “corrected” the girl by hitting her in the face. Here is the problem, what you consider “correction” the law considers criminal assault. I will not be shocked if tomorrow it were revealed that BISHOP Oyedepo also “corrects” his daughters and wife by hitting them in the face. We are saying that his conduct was barbaric and indefensible. It is an assault on decency and a blot on his achievements.

[odigwe nwaokocha]

Oyedepo was really brutal. No amount of argumenents about his spirituality (which of course is under close scrutiny now) can wash him clean of acting wrongly towards that poor victim of his!

 

Odigwe A. Nwaokocha
Department of History and International Studies
University of Benin
Benin City, Nigeria.

---

From: Amatoritsero Ede <esul...@gmail.com>
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 2:38 PM