BAGA AND BEYOND : BOKO HARAM ISLAMIC TERRORISM : BETWEEN CONFRONTATION AND JUSTICE : A DEBATE
Oluwatoyin Adepoju
Baga and Beyond
Boko Haram Islamic Terrorism
Between Confrontation and Justice
A Debate
Compiled
and introduced by
Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju
Comparative Cognitive Processes and Systems
“Exploring Every Corner of the Cosmos in Search of Knowledge”
The recent large scale destruction in the Northern Nigerian Baga community and deaths of its citizens in the course of the successful effort of the multinational Joint Task Force to remove the Boko Haram Islamic terrorists from the town has sparked significant debate.
This very energetic debate on various Nigerian centred listserves compiled
below is on the question of relationships between confronting the terrorist challenge
and the exercise of justice in the
process.
This compilation of the debate will be updated on Scribd and Blogger as the debate progresses.
[Naijaintellects] BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
Inbox
x
BOKO HARAM
x
Auwal Musa <rafsanj...@gmail.com>
Apr 30 (1 day ago)
to usaafricadialo., naijaintellects
--
BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
Civil Society Legislative Advocacy Centre (CISLAC) is worried about the continued violent violation of human rights by the security agencies on innocent Nigerians. The failure of this government to sincerely handle the insecurity and protect Nigerians from violence orchestrated by merchants of violence through Bombings, Armed robbery, kidnapping, communal clashes, political violence, ethno-religious violence and rape, helps to escalate impunity in Nigeria. This is in spite of the huge resources allocated for security sector in Nigeria which runs into trillions of naira, but yet Nigerians face more security challenges.
The recent development of mass massacre in Baga Town of Borno State is very unfortunate and in particular the alleged blocking access of relief materials to the affected victims days after the mayhem is inhumane and amount to siege. Relief workers are yet to be allowed access to Baga town days after the start of the military operations that left at least 200 people dead and so many homes burnt down. The residents said troops fired indiscriminately and set fires at homes in an apparent retaliation over the death of an officer.
CISLAC is of the opinion that there should be a better mutual understanding of cultures and systems between humanitarian aid workers and troops, so as to develop mutual respect. To do this, it would be useful to put in place a programme of strategic and operational discussions at all levels. National Emergency Management Agency (NEMA) and Red Cross have raised alarm over its inability to administer humanitarian response to victims which is a total contradiction to the United Nation Protocol on options for responding to such crises. Even in war situations, relief materials are distributed to alleviate the sufferings of the people. It is considered very unprofessional not to accept the opportunity to play a more dynamic role on how to coordinate and respond to emergencies which was created by it (the Army) in the first place.
CISLAC considers this a coercive military intervention, even though a military component of some kind has become increasingly necessary in most crises situation; it must not eclipse and violate rights of civilians. Major humanitarian actors from both within and outside Borno, and its aim at facilitating inter-agency analysis and decision making in response to humanitarian emergencies should not be an issue for negotiation considering that access to food is part of civilian protection.
It must be understood that continuous refusal to provide access humanitarian officials to the victims would further create an outbreak of diseases, hunger and deaths of women and children. We consider this siege an impunity which is unacceptable and a contradiction to the rules of engagement in such situation. We condemn this and call for investigation into the Baga saga.
CISLAC calls on relevant authorities to refrain from the current faceoff in Baga, not as an argument about the ‘right to intervene’ but about the ‘responsibility to protect’ and put in place a proper coordination of Humanitarian Affairs in the community to safeguard the lives of people.
CISLAC calls on the authorities to investigate these Army and Police officers involved in this heinous act and ensure that they are not allowed participating in any peacekeeping operations forthwith. These sorts of violations are parts of the image challenges that the nation had suffered over the years from the international community when some Nigerian Army officers were sent for international peace mission.
CISLAC therefore calls on the National Assembly to investigate the trillions of Naira allocated to the executives in the name of security votes, from all indications, insecurity is proving to be a lucrative business which financial appropriation is unaccounted for. This menace has gone on too long and needs to seriously be challenged.
Signed by
Auwal Musa Rafsanjani
Executive Director
CISLAC
Civil Society Legislative Advocacy Centre (CISLAC) is a non-governmental, non-profit legislative advocacy, lobbying, information sharing and research organization. (CISLAC) works towards bridging the gap between the legislature and the electorate; by enhancing lobbying strategies; engagement of bills before their passage into law; manpower development for lawmakers, legislative aides, politicians and the civil society, as well as civic education on the tenets of democracy and Human Rights.
CISLAC has UN ECOSOC consultative status
AUWAL IBRAHIM MUSA (RAFSANJANI)
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR
Civil Society Legislative Advocacy Centre (CISLAC)
Address:
No.7 Mahathma Gandhi Street,
Off Shehu Shagari Way,
By Bullet Garden, Area 11 Junction,
Asokoro, Abuja - Nigeria
Website: www.cislacnigeria.net
Email: in...@cislacnigeria.net, cis...@cislac.kabissa.org,
cislacnatio...@yahoo.com, rafsanj...@yahoo.com
GSM: +234-8033844646, 08052370333, 07034118266
E. Obi
Apr 30 (1 day ago)
to usaafricadialo., naijaintellects, rafsanjanikano
After the Boston marathon bombings. ,the huge city of Boston was locked down and law enforcement agencies NOT the army meticulously searched for and apprehended the suspect without massacaring Bostonians.
EUO
Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
From: Auwal Musa <rafsanj...@gmail.com>;
To: <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>; <naijain...@googlegroups.com>;
Subject: [Naijaintellects] BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
Sent: Tue, Apr 30, 2013 1:16:45 PM
Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCEZID) via yahoogroups.com
3:51 PM (23 hours ago)
to Yan, Raayiriga, NIgerianWorldF., naijaintellects, usaafricadialo., rafsanjanikano
Images are not displayed. Display images below - Always display images from jb...@cdc.gov
Nigerians are just emotional wretches, a confused bunch of people who like to eat their cake and still hold it in their hands! Let them go see how laws are enforced around the world and they will realized that the baby gloves with which the Govt and people are handling Boko Haram is mainly responsible for why the situation is till not under control.
A bunch of mindless, rag-tag religionists cannot hold a nation to ransom and render citizens’ live in a standstill; NO WAY!!! Take care. JUI
From: naijain...@googlegroups.com [mailto:naijain...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of E. Obi
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 9:24 AM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com; naijaintellects@googlegroups com; rafsanj...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Naijaintellects] BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1)
Recent Activity:
New Members 5
Visit Your Group
MARKETPLACE
Yahoo! Groups
Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use • Send us Feedback
.
__,_._,___
Oluwatoyin Adepoju <ovad...@gmail.com>
4:02 PM (23 hours ago)
to naijaintellects, usaafricadialo.
There is a world of difference between the Boston bombings involving only two bombers and the Boko Haram army which is a population integrated into the Northern Nigerian population, using the civilians as human shields and decoys.
As it is, while the await the various inquiries into the incident, there is no definitive verdict on who is guilty of the massacre of the civilians, the terrorists or the army.
Thanks
toyion
E. Obi
4:14 PM (23 hours ago)
to naijaintellects, me, usaafricadialo.
You are WRONG. Wait for a detailed response
Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
From: Oluwatoyin Adepoju <ovad...@gmail.com>;
To: <naijain...@googlegroups.com>;
Cc: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>;
Subject: Re: [Naijaintellects] BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
Sent: Tue, Apr 30, 2013 3:02:41 PM
There is a world of difference between the Boston bombings involving only two bombers and the Boko Haram army which is a population integrated into the Northern Nigerian population, using the civilians as human shields and decoys.
As it is, while the await the various inquiries into the incident, there is no definitive verdict on who is guilty of the massacre of the civilians, the terrorists or the army.
Thanks
toyin
On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 2:23 PM, E. Obi <bizo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
After the Boston marathon bombings. ,the huge city of Boston was locked down and law enforcement agencies NOT the army meticulously searched for and apprehended the suspect without massacaring Bostonians.
EUO
Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
From: Auwal Musa <rafsanj...@gmail.com>;
To: <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>; <naijain...@googlegroups.com>;
Subject: [Naijaintellects] BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
Sent: Tue, Apr 30, 2013 1:16:45 PM
--
BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
Civil Society Legislative Advocacy Centre (CISLAC) is worried about the continued violent violation of human rights by the security agencies on innocent Nigerians. The failure of this government to sincerely handle the insecurity and protect Nigerians from violence orchestrated by merchants of violence through Bombings, Armed robbery, kidnapping, communal clashes, political violence, ethno-religious violence and rape, helps to escalate impunity in Nigeria. This is in spite of the huge resources allocated for security sector in Nigeria which runs into trillions of naira, but yet Nigerians face more security challenges.
The recent development of mass massacre in Baga Town of Borno State is very unfortunate and in particular the alleged blocking access of relief materials to the affected victims days after the mayhem is inhumane and amount to siege. Relief workers are yet to be allowed access to Baga town days after the start of the military operations that left at least 200 people dead and so many homes burnt down. The residents said troops fired indiscriminately and set fires at homes in an apparent retaliation over the death of an officer.
CISLAC is of the opinion that there should be a better mutual understanding of cultures and systems between humanitarian aid workers and troops, so as to develop mutual respect. To do this, it would be useful to put in place a programme of strategic and operational discussions at all levels. National Emergency Management Agency (NEMA) and Red Cross have raised alarm over its inability to administer humanitarian response to victims which is a total contradiction to the United Nation Protocol on options for responding to such crises. Even in war situations, relief materials are distributed to alleviate the sufferings of the people. It is considered very unprofessional not to accept the opportunity to play a more dynamic role on how to coordinate and respond to emergencies which was created by it (the Army) in the first place.
CISLAC considers this a coercive military intervention, even though a military component of some kind has become increasingly necessary in most crises situation; it must not eclipse and violate rights of civilians. Major humanitarian actors from both within and outside Borno, and its aim at facilitating inter-agency analysis and decision making in response to humanitarian emergencies should not be an issue for negotiation considering that access to food is part of civilian protection.
It must be understood that continuous refusal to provide access humanitarian officials to the victims would further create an outbreak of diseases, hunger and deaths of women and children. We consider this siege an impunity which is unacceptable and a contradiction to the rules of engagement in such situation. We condemn this and call for investigation into the Baga saga.
CISLAC calls on relevant authorities to refrain from the current faceoff in Baga, not as an argument about the ‘right to intervene’ but about the ‘responsibility to protect’ and put in place a proper coordination of Humanitarian Affairs in the community to safeguard the lives of people.
CISLAC calls on the authorities to investigate these Army and Police officers involved in this heinous act and ensure that they are not allowed participating in any peacekeeping operations forthwith. These sorts of violations are parts of the image challenges that the nation had suffered over the years from the international community when some Nigerian Army officers were sent for international peace mission.
CISLAC therefore calls on the National Assembly to investigate the trillions of Naira allocated to the executives in the name of security votes, from all indications, insecurity is proving to be a lucrative business which financial appropriation is unaccounted for. This menace has gone on too long and needs to seriously be challenged.
Signed by
Auwal Musa Rafsanjani
Executive Director
CISLAC
Civil Society Legislative Advocacy Centre (CISLAC) is a non-governmental, non-profit legislative advocacy, lobbying, information sharing and research organization. (CISLAC) works towards bridging the gap between the legislature and the electorate; by enhancing lobbying strategies; engagement of bills before their passage into law; manpower development for lawmakers, legislative aides, politicians and the civil society, as well as civic education on the tenets of democracy and Human Rights.
CISLAC has UN ECOSOC consultative status
AUWAL IBRAHIM MUSA (RAFSANJANI)
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR
Civil Society Legislative Advocacy Centre (CISLAC)
Address:
No.7 Mahathma Gandhi Street,
Off Shehu Shagari Way,
By Bullet Garden, Area 11 Junction,
Asokoro, Abuja - Nigeria
Website: www.cislacnigeria.net
Email: in...@cislacnigeria.net, cis...@cislac.kabissa.org,
cislacnatio...@yahoo.com, rafsanj...@yahoo.com
GSM: +234-8033844646, 08052370333, 07034118266
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "naijaintellects" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to naijaintellec...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to naijain...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/naijaintellects?hl=en.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "naijaintellects" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to naijaintellec...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to naijain...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/naijaintellects?hl=en.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "naijaintellects" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to naijaintellec...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to naijain...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/naijaintellects?hl=en.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
rotimi Fashakin <rot...@yahoo.com>
4:17 PM (23 hours ago)
to NIgerianWorldF., naijaintellects, usaafricadialo., rafsanjanikano, Yan, Raayiriga
Images are not displayed. Display images below - Always display images from rot...@yahoo.com
Dr Joe Igietseme,
In the communication below,Your opening statement and concluding sentence are 180 degrees out of phase.
I thought you'd go to the very beginning.
The 2nd Boston bomber was captured still breathing, he was taken to the hospital to revive. The charge sheet for his formal prosecution was brought to him on his hospital bed. That is the way of civility.
Compare and contrast with Naija's method:
Mohammed Yussuf was arrested. We all saw him handcuffed. He was taken into custody. 24 hours later, his lifeless body was shown to Nigerians with the same handcuffed on!
What happened? The dumb security men with their dumb leaders in govt told Nigerians that he was shot while attempting to escape.
I thought the kernel of the Nation's jurisprudence is that an accused is presumed innocent until proven guilty or convicted by a court of competent jurisdiction!?
That was not all; we all saw on You-tube how the same blood-thirsty security agents shot every one in sight, including crippled folks. We were all outraged by such mindlessness displayed. What did you do, as a human being? You probably said: "it serves those Islamists right."
Now we are all victims of the original injustice, man's inhumanity to man! Not so? What are we going to do? What is the way forward? I dare say, if Mohammed Yussuf had been tried and, if found guilty of treason or terrorism, had been executed, we probably would not have been in this colossal mess. But here we are, our elite with all the knowledge acquired from the ivory tower cannot even understand this very simple aspect of human existence!
Rotimi.
I am still shaking my head in disbelief o.
Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN
From: "Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCEZID)" <jigie...@cdc.gov>
Sender: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 14:51:10 +0000
To: naijaintellects@googlegroups com<naijain...@googlegroups.com>; usaafric...@googlegroups.com<usaafric...@googlegroups.com>; rafsanj...@gmail.com<rafsanj...@gmail.com>
ReplyTo: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com
Cc: 'Yan Arewa'<yana...@yahoogroups.com>; Raay...@yahoogroups.com<Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; 'NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com'<NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (2)
Recent Activity:
New Members 39
Visit Your Group
MARKETPLACE
Yahoo! Groups
Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use • Send us Feedback
.
__,_._,___
Oluwatoyin Adepoju 4:29 PM (23 hours ago)
FALSE: ' I dare say, if Mohammed Yussuf had been tried and, if found guilty o...
rotimi Fashakin <rot...@yahoo.com>
4:48 PM (22 hours ago)
to NIgerianWorldF., naijaintellects, usaafricadialo., rafsanjanikano, Yan, Raayiriga
Images are not displayed. Display images below - Always display images from rot...@yahoo.com
"Boko Haram was murderous well before the killing of Yusuf"---toyin adepoju.
Sometimes, one gets horrified when you read some posts that tend to revise our common history. We watched on you-tube how a police inspector told his colleagues not to waste bullets. "Let one person just shoot the heart. Don't waste bullet please." That was the statement of the police inspector while one of them bent over some folks(among them crippled) and finished them off with single shots to the heart! It was Aljazeera that posted the video.
Mr Adepoju,
Are you saying that killing people (without formal trial) is alright for decent human living?!
I am still in quandary on the thrust of your contention. You may wish to elucidate please.
Rotimi.
Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN
From: Oluwatoyin Adepoju <ovad...@gmail.com>
Sender: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 16:29:10 +0100
To: <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>
ReplyTo: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com
Cc: naijaintellects@googlegroups com<naijain...@googlegroups.com>; usaafric...@googlegroups.com<usaafric...@googlegroups.com>; rafsanj...@gmail.com<rafsanj...@gmail.com>; Yan Arewa<yana...@yahoogroups.com>; Raay...@yahoogroups.com<Raay...@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (4)
Recent Activity:
New Members 39
Visit Your Group
MARKETPLACE
Yahoo! Groups
Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use • Send us Feedback
.
__,_._,___
Stevek 5:22 PM (22 hours ago)
Wow, Joe, You mean that those who do not support the extra-judicial murder of...
Oluwatoyin Adepoju 5:47 PM (21 hours ago)
Fashakin, Please address the point made and its reference to a historical acc...
OlaKa...@aol.com via yahoogroups.com
6:23 PM (21 hours ago)
to nigerianid, nigeriansncana., NIgerianWorldF., naijaintellects, usaafricadialo., rafsanjanikano, yanarewa, Raayiriga
Images are not displayed. Display images below - Always display images from OlaKa...@aol.com
JUI:
I share your sentiments and frustrations--some Nigerians can indeed be emotional wretches
as you referred to them.
When dog bites man no one complains but when man bites dog some start yelling massacre.
Are the lives of the Boko Haram terrorists worth more than those of their victims?.
How many innocent police officers and soldiers have been killed by the Boko Haram terrorists
in the past few years--without all the hue and cry from the holier than thou crowd?
How many hundreds of civilians have lost their lives and limbs at the hands of the
Boko Haram terrorists
The Boko Haram terrorists are like a cancerous sore in the nation. Serious ailments
need serious solutions!
As long as the federal authorities are taking the necessary care to avoid collateral civilian casualties
the government forces should be using whatever arsenals they have in their possession to eradicate
these miscreants.
Capturing the terrorists alive so they could be tried remains an option only in situations where the
federal forces would not risk their lives to ensure their capture.
Why are some people crying on behalf of terrorists--when they would rather die so they
could get their 72 virgins in heaven?
Why are some Nigerians playing politics with this serious matter?
Bye,
Ola
__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (9)
Recent Activity:
New Members 39
Visit Your Group
MARKETPLACE
Yahoo! Groups
Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use • Send us Feedback
.
__,_._,___
Oluwatoyin Adepoju <ovad...@gmail.com>
7:43 PM (19 hours ago)
to NIgerianWorldF., naijaintellects, usaafricadialo., rafsanjanikano, yanarewa, Raayiriga, nigerianid
People are also much aggrieved not happy at the high civilian casualties.
They would have preferred that so many people, if any at all died, did not die, their community destroyed.
toyin
Valentine Ojo via yahoogroups.com
11:55 PM (15 hours ago)
to Joseph, Adeniba, Amauche, Anthony, Emeka, Iyalaje, Olushola, Pius, Prince, Rufus, Salihu, Samuel, Suji, Sylvester, Tajudeen, wale, Yakubu, Nigerian, Ola, AVATAR, Emmanuel, bcc: nigeria360
Images are not displayed. Display images below - Always display images from elew...@gmail.com
Dr. Ola Kassim/Dr. Joseph Igietseme:
Please help me out here...
Can you both explain to Nigerians, how then are 'laws enforced around the world', especially in Canada and in the US where you both reside...
'Let them go see how laws are enforced around the world and they will realized that the baby gloves with which the Govt and people are handling Boko Haram is mainly responsible for why the situation is till not under control.
A bunch of mindless, rag-tag religionists cannot hold a nation to ransom and render citizens’ live in a standstill; NO WAY!!!' - Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCEZID) (CDC/OID/NCEZID) <jigie...@cdc.gov>
'War is not a joke! The Boko Haram is at war with the lawful authorities in Nigeria.
We can not send our soldiers and policemen into a battle with the Boko Haram
with one arm tied to their backs.
Our soldiers and police are expected to operate within certain rules and bounds--
as per the mission protocol. They are not allowed to kill innocent civilians or Boko Haram terrorists
who have clearly surrendered after dropping their guns and ammunitions and appearing
with both arms raised high above their heads. Any errant soldier or police who participates in extrajudiocial killings should be courtmartialed.
But how many Bokos have you encountered that would obey the rules of law regarding surrender?
Boko Haram terrorists are suicidal maniacs whose only mission in engaging in their fruitless
wars is to die to they could each get to enjoy 72 virgins in heaven!' - OlaKa...@aol.com
Do you both seriously then believe all what you wrote here...?
When did Nigeria declare itself to be at war with Boko Haram, even if you choose to label them as extremists or terrorists...?
Do members of Boko Haram go around carrying ID cards, and wearing uniforms that would allow the police and soldiers to shoot them on sight...?
'My only regret would be about the collateral civilian casualties and destruction
of properties which the Nigerian armed forces should avoid as much as they
can reasonably do without further endangering their own lives.' - OlaKa...@aol.com
Really...?
Why still express any regret or any remorse then...when we are presumably 'killing' the hated members of the Boko Haram...?
What stops soldiers and the police then shooting and killing suspected armed robbers, MEND,MOSSOB and OPC members in the same manner...?
Or this extra-judicial treatment should be reserved only for this suspected 'bunch of mindless, rag-tag religionists' labeled loosely as 'Boko Haram'...?
Or what exactly are both you presumably highly educated Nigerians suggesting about how Nigeria should now handle apprehended criminals in Nigeria - simply shoot them on sight, without benefit of any form of trial...because they are 'suspected' to belong to Boko Haram...?
Is this the kind of Nigeria we then want - in 2013 - where people are simply shot by security personals because they are suspected to belong to an extremist group...?
Dr. Valentine Ojo
Tall Timbers, MD
On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 5:40 PM, <OlaKa...@aol.com> wrote:
SteveK:
There is nothing in my submission that could be reasonably
interpreted as an approval of extrajudicial execution as a mode
of justice.
I was one of those who protested the extrajudicil execution
of Yussuf by the Nigerian police.
The operations in Baga were aimed at flushing out Boko Haram
religious extremists.
I will not shed any tears if some or all of the Bokos end being killed
in gunfire with the police or the Nigerian armed forces.
My only regret would be about the collateral civilian casualties and destruction
of properties which the Nigerian armed forces should avoid as much as they
can reasonably do without further endangering their own lives.
War is not a joke! The Boko Haram is at war with the lawful authorities in Nigeria.
We can not send our soldiers and policemen into a battle with the Boko Haram
with one arm tied to their backs.
Our soldiers and police are expected to operate within certain rules and bounds--
as per the mission protocol. They are not allowed to kill innocent civilians or Boko Haram terrorists
who have clearly surrendered after dropping their guns and ammunitions and appearing
with both arms raised high above their heads. Any errant soldier or police who participates in extrajudiocial killings
should be courtmartialed.
But how many Bokos have you encountered that would obey the rules of law regarding surrender?
Boko Haram terrorists are suicidal maniacs whose only mission in engaging in their fruitless
wars is to die to they could each get to enjoy 72 virgins in heaven! They are no boy scouts.
No reasonably human being whould shed any tears for them.
Bye,
Ola
---- Original Message ----
From: Stevek <avatar...@yahoo.com>
To: OlaKassimMD <OlaKa...@aol.com>; NIgerianWorldForum <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>; naijaintellects <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>; rafsanjanikano <rafsanj...@gmail.com>
Cc: yanarewa <yana...@yahoogroups.com>; Raayiriga <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; nigerianid <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; nigeriansncanada <nigerian...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Apr 30, 2013 1:46 pm
Subject: Re: NigerianID | Re: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
That's what I thought. That NIDO thing again.
You guys amaze me.
Both of you are staying put in your respective foreign stations because of the benefit of the Rule of Law and Due Process. But you don't care if this man that has been murdered is really guilty of anything or not.
Yet, you Olola, want homosexuals to be married without hinder because they have a right to. But this guy that is murderd without due process should because it makes you feel better that you are doing something against Boko Haram.
You are as logical and consistent as a square peg in a round hole!
due process of law
n. a fundamental principle of fairness in all legal matters, both civil and criminal, especially in the courts. All legal procedures set by statute and court practice, including notice of rights, must be followed for each individual so that no prejudicial or unequal treatment will result. While somewhat indefinite, the term can be gauged by its aim to safeguard both private and public rights against unfairness. The universal guarantee of due process is in the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which provides "No person shall…be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law," and is applied to all states by the 14th Amendment. From this basic principle flows many legal decisions determining both procedural and substantive rights
I hope your turn doesn't come one day as you visit Nigeria!
As Africans, we have to learn to think or perish.
Stevek
Washington, DC, USA
A society of supine lambs breeds erect wolves. - Stevek
A wise man proportions his beliefs to the evidence - David Hume
From: "OlaKa...@aol.com" <OlaKa...@aol.com>
To: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com; naijain...@googlegroups.com; usaafric...@googlegroups.com; rafsanj...@gmail.com
Cc: yana...@yahoogroups.com; Raay...@yahoogroups.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; nigerian...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 1:23 PM
Subject: NigerianID | Re: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
JUI:
I share your sentiments and frustrations--some Nigerians can indeed be emotional wretches
as you referred to them.
When dog bites man no one complains but when man bites dog some start yelling massacre.
Are the lives of the Boko Haram terrorists worth more than those of their victims?.
How many innocent police officers and soldiers have been killed by the Boko Haram terrorists
in the past few years--without all the hue and cry from the holier than thou crowd?
How many hundreds of civilians have lost their lives and limbs at the hands of the
Boko Haram terrorists
The Boko Haram terrorists are like a cancerous sore in the nation. Serious ailments
need serious solutions!
As long as the federal authorities are taking the necessary care to avoid collateral civilian casualties
the government forces should be using whatever arsenals they have in their possession to eradicate
these miscreants.
Capturing the terrorists alive so they could be tried remains an option only in situations where the
federal forces would not risk their lives to ensure their capture.
Why are some people crying on behalf of terrorists--when they would rather die so they
could get their 72 virgins in heaven?
Why are some Nigerians playing politics with this serious matter?
Bye,
Ola
---- Original Message ----From: Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCEZID) (CDC/OID/NCEZID) <jigie...@cdc.gov>To: naijaintellects@googlegroups com <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>; rafsanjanikano <rafsanj...@gmail.com>Cc: 'Yan Arewa' <yana...@yahoogroups.com>; Raayiriga <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; 'NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com' <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Tue, Apr 30, 2013 10:51 amSubject: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
Nigerians are just emotional wretches, a confused bunch of people who like to eat their cake and still hold it in their hands! Let them go see how laws are enforced around the world and they will realized that the baby gloves with which the Govt and people are handling Boko Haram is mainly responsible for why the situation is till not under control.
A bunch of mindless, rag-tag religionists cannot hold a nation to ransom and render citizens’ live in a standstill; NO WAY!!! Take care. JUI
From: naijain...@googlegroups.com [mailto:naijain...@googlegroups.com?] On Behalf Of E. Obi
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 9:24 AM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com; naijaintellects@googlegroups com; rafsanj...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Naijaintellects] BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
After the Boston marathon bombings. ,the huge city of Boston was locked down and law enforcement agencies NOT the army meticulously searched for and apprehended the suspect without massacaring Bostonians.
EUO
Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
From: Auwal Musa <rafsanj...@gmail.com>;
To: <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>; <naijain...@googlegroups.com>;
Subject: [Naijaintellects] BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
Sent: Tue, Apr 30, 2013 1:16:45 PM
--
BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
Civil Society Legislative Advocacy Centre (CISLAC) is worried about the continued violent violation of human rights by the security agencies on innocent Nigerians. The failure of this government to sincerely handle the insecurity and protect Nigerians from violence orchestrated by merchants of violence through Bombings, Armed robbery, kidnapping, communal clashes, political violence, ethno-religious violence and rape, helps to escalate impunity in Nigeria. This is in spite of the huge resources allocated for security sector in Nigeria which runs into trillions of naira, but yet Nigerians face more security challenges.
The recent development of mass massacre in Baga Town of Borno State is very unfortunate and in particular the alleged blocking access of relief materials to the affected victims days after the mayhem is inhumane and amount to siege. Relief workers are yet to be allowed access to Baga town days after the start of the military operations that left at least 200 people dead and so many homes burnt down. The residents said troops fired indiscriminately and set fires at homes in an apparent retaliation over the death of an officer.
CISLAC is of the opinion that there should be a better mutual understanding of cultures and systems between humanitarian aid workers and troops, so as to develop mutual respect. To do this, it would be useful to put in place a programme of strategic and operational discussions at all levels. National Emergency Management Agency (NEMA) and Red Cross have raised alarm over its inability to administer humanitarian response to victims which is a total contradiction to the United Nation Protocol on options for responding to such crises. Even in war situations, relief materials are distributed to alleviate the sufferings of the people. It is considered very unprofessional not to accept the opportunity to play a more dynamic role on how to coordinate and respond to emergencies which was created by it (the Army) in the first place.
CISLAC considers this a coercive military intervention, even though a military component of some kind has become increasingly necessary in most crises situation; it must not eclipse and violate rights of civilians. Major humanitarian actors from both within and outside Borno, and its aim at facilitating inter-agency analysis and decision making in response to humanitarian emergencies should not be an issue for negotiation considering that access to food is part of civilian protection.
It must be understood that continuous refusal to provide access humanitarian officials to the victims would further create an outbreak of diseases, hunger and deaths of women and children. We consider this siege an impunity which is unacceptable and a contradiction to the rules of engagement in such situation. We condemn this and call for investigation into the Baga saga.
CISLAC calls on relevant authorities to refrain from the current faceoff in Baga, not as an argument about the ‘right to intervene’ but about the ‘responsibility to protect’ and put in place a proper coordination of Humanitarian Affairs in the community to safeguard the lives of people.
CISLAC calls on the authorities to investigate these Army and Police officers involved in this heinous act and ensure that they are not allowed participating in any peacekeeping operations forthwith. These sorts of violations are parts of the image challenges that the nation had suffered over the years from the international community when some Nigerian Army officers were sent for international peace mission.
CISLAC therefore calls on the National Assembly to investigate the trillions of Naira allocated to the executives in the name of security votes, from all indications, insecurity is proving to be a lucrative business which financial appropriation is unaccounted for. This menace has gone on too long and needs to seriously be challenged.
Signed by
Auwal Musa Rafsanjani
Executive Director
CISLAC
Civil Society Legislative Advocacy Centre (CISLAC) is a non-governmental, non-profit legislative advocacy, lobbying, information sharing and research organization. (CISLAC) works towards bridging the gap between the legislature and the electorate; by enhancing lobbying strategies; engagement of bills before their passage into law; manpower development for lawmakers, legislative aides, politicians and the civil society, as well as civic education on the tenets of democracy and Human Rights.
CISLAC has UN ECOSOC consultative status
AUWAL IBRAHIM MUSA (RAFSANJANI)EXECUTIVE DIRECTORCivil Society Legislative Advocacy Centre (CISLAC)Address: No.7 Mahathma Gandhi Street, Off Shehu Shagari Way, By Bullet Garden, Area 11 Junction,Asokoro, Abuja - NigeriaWebsite: http://www.cislacnigeria.net/
Email: in...@cislacnigeria.net, cis...@cislac.kabissa.org,
cislacnatio...@yahoo.com, rafsanj...@yahoo.comGSM: +234-8033844646, 08052370333, 07034118266
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "naijaintellects" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to naijaintellec...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to naijain...@googlegroups.com.Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/naijaintellects?hl=en.For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "naijaintellects" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to naijaintellec...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to naijain...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/naijaintellects?hl=en.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1)
Recent Activity:
New Members 2
Visit Your Group
USAfrica
1st African-owned, U.S.-based professional newspaper published on the internet.
------
CLASS ... The social events and profiles glossy magazine for Africans
in the U.S. and North America. It's the 'Ebony' magazine for the African
professional class across the U.S., north America and the Diaspora
-----
-PHOTOWORKS.tv
Our community's photos mega-site of your special events, weddings, anniversaries, etc
MARKETPLACE
Yahoo! Groups
Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use • Send us Feedback
.
__,_._,___
Valentine Ojo via yahoogroups.com
1:11 AM (14 hours ago)
to Nigerian, Joseph, AVATAR, Emmanuel, Adeniba, Amauche, Anthony, Emeka, Iyalaje, Olushola, Pius, Prince, Rufus, Salihu, Samuel, Suji, Sylvester, Tajudeen, wale, Yakubu, Ola, bcc: nigeria360
Images are not displayed. Display images below - Always display images from elew...@gmail.com
'When Putin sent his squads to liquidate some Chechen rebels in Kagistan a few days--no one heard the Russians shouting massacre massacre!'
Dr. Ola Kassim:
I did not read that anywhere, and I did not realize that Nigerians were same people as Russians who belong to an ethnicity different from the Chechnyans!
And Kirghistan is a different country from Russia, no...?
'The Tsarnaeve brothers were mere suspects in the Boston Marathon Bomb attacks when they were on tthe run from law enforcement; they became the accused bombers after they started shooting back at the police.' - OlaKa...@aol.com
And...?
How many Americans/Bostonians were killed for the Boston police to arrest the Tsarneve brothers - and was one of the brothers not captured alive and even taken in for medical treatment...?
Why wasn't he just wasted like a wild beast...?
Can't you see the difference between how human beings treat other human beings - and how WILD ANIMALS treat each other...?
If you can't, Dr. Ola Kassim, then I seriously wonder what your education and what your decades spent in a country like Canada training to become a medical doctor is worth!
Same applies to your Dr. Joseph 'Stalin' Igietseme!
But then I presume Africans - especially Nigerians - will forever remain WILD ANIMALS as far as humanity is concerned!
How sad!
Dr. Valentine Ojo
Tall Timbers, MD
On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 7:23 PM, <OlaKa...@aol.com> wrote:
Or this extra-judicial treatment should be reserved only for this suspected 'bunch of mindless, rag-tag religionists' labeled loosely as 'Boko Haram'...?
Dr Ojo:
When you point a gun or lob a grenade or improvised
explosive device at a police officer or soldier you 'graduate'
from being just a mere suspect as a Boko Haram terrorist
to a real flesh and blood terrorist.
If you keep on in your errant ways after being warned to
drop your weapons--no reasonable human beings except
clueless bleeding heart liberals should blame the police
or the soldiers if you are shot and either killed or wounded.
The Tsarnaeve brothers were mere suspects in the Boston Marathon
Bomb attacks when they were on the on the run from law enforcement;
they became the accused bombers after they started shooting back at the police.
The same goes for their wacko Boko brethren in northern Nigeria.
We do not expect Boko Haramist terrorist to wear labels on their heads
or badges on their clothing identifying them as terrorists.
However, when they start shooting back at the ploice and soldiers
in a territory where they have been previously active, the law enforement
officers should not be second guessed when they start returning fire
on the assumption that they are the true terrorists.
When they walk and quack like a terrorist and threaten the lives of police officers and civilians
with their weapons they should be treated like terrorists until proven otherwise.
Until Baga, the Nigerian government has been very restrained in its deployment of the arsenals
at its disposal==appearing seemingly weak ann helpless in the presence or heavily armed
Boko Haram terrorists who have been receiving surplus weapons from the rebels in Libya.
It is time for GEJ to start acting like the Commander in Chief that he truly is.
When Putin sent his squads to liquidate some Chechen rebels in Kagistan
a few days--no one heard the Russians shouting massacre massacre!
Bye,
Ola
--
__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (2)
.
__,_._,___
Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCEZID) via yahoogroups.com
1:22 AM (14 hours ago)
to stevek941, talkhard, NIgerianWorldF., Ola, Raayiriga, Yan, usaafricadialo., rafsanjanikano
Images are not displayed. Display images below - Always display images from jb...@cdc.gov
Stevek,
Don’t you think that most people will consider it the appropriate Rule of Law enforcement to use adequate Police or military action to stop terrorists and protect the majority of citizens from mindless individual or group's terrors? I think some of us should go find out how these issues have been handled in the most developed/ civilized societies that we all look up to for global best practices in democratic practices, civil liberties and public safety.
Go find out what happened to the Dravidian sect in Waco TX, when it became necessary to hunt down the terror snipers in DC, Boston bombers etc in USA! It is IMPORTANT for us realize that the consideration of “due process” is secondary to the “immediate response” to any mindless terror threat to lives and public properties, such as what we have with Boko Haram; BH members are not fighting any legitimate cause that meet the human rights defined by the United Nations or embraced by any decent, civilized modern society! Their ancestral land is not occupied; they have not been denied the rights to worship as they choose or like; they are not being forced to do anything! Rather, this religious sect wants to impose its doctrine on the rest of society; and the members use killing of innocent people, destructions and intimidations as their tactics; What else constitutes a threat to public safety, human rights and senseless menace to a society in a desperate need for a peaceful polity to grow its democracy, build her functional institutions and advance scientifically and technologically? Where is the room for “due process” in a situation where citizens are being terrorized, innocent lives are being mindlessly terminated and property destructions range in the billions? There is no serious society that discusses “due process” under such a climate.
In the apt words of US President Harry Truman: “Unusual problems require uncommon solutions”! Take care. JUI
----------------------------------------- Original Message -------------------------------------------------------------
From: Stevek
Date: 4/30/2013 1:46 PM
To: OlaKa...@aol.com;NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com;naijain...@googlegroups.com;usaafric...@googlegroups.com;rafsanj...@gmail.com;
Cc: yana...@yahoogroups.com;Raay...@yahoogroups.com;niger...@yahoogroups.com;nigerian...@yahoogroups.com;
Subject: Re: NigerianID | Re: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
That's what I thought. That NIDO thing again.
You guys amaze me.
Both of you are staying put in your respective foreign stations because of the benefit of the Rule of Law and Due Process. But you don't care if this man that has been murdered is really guilty of anything or not.
Yet, you Olola, want homosexuals to be married without hinder because they have a right to. But this guy that is murderd without due process should because it makes you feel better that you are doing something against Boko Haram.
You are as logical and consistent as a square peg in a round hole!
due process of law
n. a fundamental principle of fairness in all legal matters, both civil and criminal, especially in the courts. All legal procedures set by statute and court practice, including notice of rights, must be followed for each individual so that no prejudicial or unequal treatment will result. While somewhat indefinite, the term can be gauged by its aim to safeguard both private and public rights against unfairness. The universal guarantee of due process is in the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which provides "No person shall…be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law," and is applied to all states by the 14th Amendment. From this basic principle flows many legal decisions determining both procedural and substantive rights
I hope your turn doesn't come one day as you visit Nigeria!
As Africans, we have to learn to think or perish.
Stevek
Washington, DC, USA
A society of supine lambs breeds erect wolves. - Stevek
A wise man proportions his beliefs to the evidence - David Hume
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (2)
Recent Activity:
New Members 22
New Files 1
Visit Your Group
MARKETPLACE
Yahoo! Groups
Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use • Send us Feedback
.
__,_._,___
lion killer lionki...@hotmail.com via yahoogroups.com
1:29 AM (14 hours ago)
to nigerianworldf., naijaintellects, usaafricadialo., rafsanjanikano, yanarewa, raayiriga, nigerianid, nigeriansncana.
Images are not displayed. Display images below - Always display images from lionki...@hotmail.com
Ola, I could not agree with you more. The fact that a set of hoodlums can hold 160 million persons, who also happen to claim the title of the most populous nation in Africa is a shame in the first order. It is even more so that the Nigerian government is so yellow-bellied that it negotiates with terrorists, the poignancy of the fact being that GEJ's government if you can call it that is a farce. The concept of Blackmail is that it perpetuates itself and if, mark my words, if Boko " Harem's " tenure ever ends, another terror could promptly take its place, for the fact that there is a higher than normal probability that they will get whatever then want by sheer brute force. Lyndon Baines Johnson was an accidental President, just as Nigeria's current one [their bosses died and they took over], but Johson had an agenda and most of the policies in the US including Medicare, Medicaid, Head Start and the Civil Rights Act of 1964 all stand as a beacon of light of his achievement till date. Johnson's undoing was his preoccupation with Vietnam. On the other hand, the Nigerian accidental President? What President? So, the axiom that we deserve the government we have could not have been more apt. Nigerians, especially those in advisory positions and even those who suffer under it [give them a cup of rice and they will all sing the praises even of those who ravaged them] present as some of the most sycophantic or all lackeys, and unashamedly so. And to think that this charade is orchestrated to continue after 2015? Ola, I pray thee, say it is not so.
Buster Ogbuagu
To: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com; naijain...@googlegroups.com; usaafric...@googlegroups.com; rafsanj...@gmail.com
CC: yana...@yahoogroups.com; Raay...@yahoogroups.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; nigerian...@yahoogroups.com
From: OlaKa...@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 13:23:01 -0400
Subject: Re: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (20)
Recent Activity:
New Members 33
Visit Your Group
MARKETPLACE
Yahoo! Groups
Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use • Send us Feedback
.
__,_._,___
OlaKa...@aol.com via yahoogroups.com
2:21 AM (13 hours ago)
to NIgerianWorldF., naijaintellects, usaafricadialo., rafsanjanikano, yanarewa, raayiriga, nigerianid, nigeriansncana.
Images are not displayed. Display images below - Always display images from OlaKa...@aol.com
Buster:
You said it all in a few words!
Dr Ojo and his ilk act tough only with
ordinary Nigerians; they dive for cover
when ever they are confronted even with just
the shadows of terrorists like the Boko
Haram.
Let Dr Ojo visit Borno state and start
referring to the Boko Wackos as 'African monkeys'
and we'll see if he survives the encounter even for a minute.
The Boko Haramists are a threat to Nigerian Unity and Prosperity
and Security of her citizens nationwide!
The most effective treatment for a gangrenous or cancerous limb
which is resistant to all other forms of treatment is amputation
or else the gangrene consumes the rest of the body.
Bye,
Ola
__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (22)
Recent Activity:
New Members 43
Visit Your Group
MARKETPLACE
Yahoo! Groups
Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use • Send us Feedback
.
__,_._,___
Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCEZID)
2:39 AM (13 hours ago)
to OlaKassimMD, NIgerianWorldF., naijaintellects, usaafricadialo., rafsanjanikano, yanarewa, raayiriga, nigerianid, nigeriansncana.
Images are not displayed. Display images below - Always display images from jb...@cdc.gov
“””””””The Boko Haramists are a threat to Nigerian Unity and Prosperity and Security of her citizens nationwide! The most effective treatment for a gangrenous or cancerous limb which is resistant to all other forms of treatment is amputation or else the gangrene consumes the rest of the body.”””””””Unquote Dr Ola Kassim!
JUI would like to endorse this statement as it pertains to the menace of Boko Haram in Nigeria!
As we have said previously, it is IMPORTANT for us to realize that the consideration of “due process” is secondary to the “immediate response” to any mindless terror threat to lives and public properties, such as what we have with Boko Haram; BH members are not fighting any legitimate cause that meet the human rights defined by the United Nations or embraced by any decent, civilized modern society! Their ancestral land is not occupied; they have not been denied the rights to worship as they choose or like; they are not being forced to do anything! Rather, this religious sect wants to impose its doctrine on the rest of society; and the members use killing of innocent people, destructions and intimidations as their tactics; What else constitutes a threat to public safety, human rights and senseless menace to a society in a desperate need for a peaceful polity to grow its democracy, build her functional institutions and advance scientifically and technologically? Where is the room for “due process” in a situation where citizens are being terrorized, innocent lives are being mindlessly terminated and property destructions range in the billions? There is no serious society that discusses “due process” under such a climate. In the apt words of US President Harry Truman: “Unusual problems require uncommon solutions”!
Besides, after securing lives and properties of citizens from the terror [by whatever means necessary], and the perpetrators are apprehended, the “due process” will commence appropriately! Take care. JUI
From: Niger...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Niger...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of OlaKa...@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 9:22 PM
To: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com; naijain...@googlegroups.com; usaafric...@googlegroups.com; rafsanj...@gmail.com
Cc: yana...@yahoogroups.com; raay...@yahoogroups.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; nigerian...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: NigerianID | Re: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
Reply via web post
Reply to sender
Reply to group
Start a New Topic
Messages in this topic (3)
Recent Activity:
· New Members 1
Visit Your Group
UPCOMING EVENT| TORONTO 2013 NIGERIA-CANADA INVESTMENT & TRADE FORUM - May 2&3.
==============================
"No part of any discussion on NigerianID may be used, quoted, or referred to, without the express permission of the individual author, or the Chief moderator All discussions on NigerianID are the express property of the author and NigerianID." Copyright 2006-2013. NigerianID. All Rights Reserved.
Nigerian Professionals and Business Network. Our mission is to promote the spirit of patriotism, networking, and cooperation among Nigerians in Diaspora.... http://www.nidoa.org
Donate your used Glasses to the "Seeing Changes the View" Nigeria Project at http://www.proudNigerians.org and help someone today. ProudNigerians.Org is an informal movement of like-minded people who wants to see incremental changes in Nigeria and who are leading by taking simple actions and paying it forward. Mobilizing the people is our primary goal.
MARKETPLACE
Yahoo! Groups
Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use • Send us Feedback
.
__,_._,___
Fubara David-West <david...@yahoo.com>
2:48 AM (12 hours ago)
to naijapolitics, nigeria360, talkhard, nigerianworldf.
Images are not displayed. Display images below - Always display images from david...@yahoo.com
There can be no resort to due process, before those who are terrorizing a country in the name of a decadent political and cultural mission are arrested. It is the formal arrest that brings the culprits into the open judicial process. The situation facing Nigeria calls for responsible citizenship on the part of community and political leaders, and the general public, especially in the areas most affected. They have to stand up and take active roles in bringing the terrorists to book.
Of course, collateral damage must be avoided. However, people cannot accept a situation where trepidation about collateral damage, turns the larger society into a helpless victim, to be used for target practice at will, by some fringe elements, who are bent on terrorizing the population.
What we have right now is similar, in a lot of ways, to the situation that the United States faced with Osama Bin Ladin, who for years after the 9/11 terrorist attacks on New York and the Pentagon, lived among his protectors in Pakistan, while continuing to direct all sorts of terrorist acts. Note that as long as the Pakistanis among whom he lived refused to turn him in, he could continue to evade the greatest armed forces in the world.
As long as the intelligence services were unable to develop the capability to change the situation, Osama would be alive. Would the United States read Osama Bin Ladin his Miranda rights and arrest him, once his hiding place was breached? Of course not. If several people had been killed in the operation to get Osama Bin Ladin, would the world have called that a massacre? No.
I thank you.
Fubara David-West.
From: "Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCEZID)" <jb...@cdc.gov>
To: "NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>; "<stev...@yahoo.com>" <stev...@yahoo.com>; Ola Kassim <olaka...@aol.com>
Cc: "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; 'Yan Arewa' <yana...@yahoogroups.com>; "usaafric...@googlegroups.com" <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>; "talk...@yahoogroups.com" <talk...@yahoogroups.com>; "rafsanj...@gmail.com" <rafsanj...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 7:22 PM
Subject: [talkhard] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1)
Recent Activity:
New Members 2
Visit Your Group
USAfrica
1st African-owned, U.S.-based professional newspaper published on the internet.
------
CLASS ... The social events and profiles glossy magazine for Africans
in the U.S. and North America. It's the 'Ebony' magazine for the African
professional class across the U.S., north America and the Diaspora
-----
-PHOTOWORKS.tv
Our community's photos mega-site of your special events, weddings, anniversaries, etc
MARKETPLACE
Yahoo! Groups
Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use • Send us Feedback
.
__,_._,___
Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCEZID) via yahoogroups.com
2:58 AM (12 hours ago)
to NIgerianWorldF., talkhard, naijapolitics, nigeria360, yanarewa, raayiriga
Images are not displayed. Display images below - Always display images from jb...@cdc.gov
“””””There can be no resort to due process, before those who are terrorizing a country in the name of a decadent political and cultural mission are arrested. It is the formal arrest that brings the culprits into the open judicial process. ”””””Unquote Bro Fubara!
Daalu Bro Fubara for capturing and explicitly clarifying this vital POINT! Take care. JUI
From: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Fubara David-West
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 9:48 PM
To: talk...@yahoogroups.com; naijap...@yahoogroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [NIgerianWorldForum] Re: [talkhard] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
There can be no resort to due process, before those who are terrorizing a country in the name of a decadent political and cultural mission are arrested. It is the formal arrest that brings the culprits into the open judicial process. The situation facing Nigeria calls for responsible citizenship on the part of community and political leaders, and the general public, especially in the areas most affected. They have to stand up and take active roles in bringing the terrorists to book.
Of course, collateral damage must be avoided. However, people cannot accept a situation where trepidation about collateral damage, turns the larger society into a helpless victim, to be used for target practice at will, by some fringe elements, who are bent on terrorizing the population.
What we have right now is similar, in a lot of ways, to the situation that the United States faced with Osama Bin Ladin, who for years after the 9/11 terrorist attacks on New York and the Pentagon, lived among his protectors in Pakistan, while continuing to direct all sorts of terrorist acts. Note that as long as the Pakistanis among whom he lived refused to turn him in, he could continue to evade the greatest armed forces in the world.
As long as the intelligence services were unable to develop the capability to change the situation, Osama would be alive. Would the United States read Osama Bin Ladin his Miranda rights and arrest him, once his hiding place was breached? Of course not. If several people had been killed in the operation to get Osama Bin Ladin, would the world have called that a massacre? No.
I thank you.
Fubara David-West.
From: "Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCEZID)" <jb...@cdc.gov>
To: "NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>; "<stev...@yahoo.com>" <stev...@yahoo.com>; Ola Kassim <olaka...@aol.com>
Cc: "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; 'Yan Arewa' <yana...@yahoogroups.com>; "usaafric...@googlegroups.com" <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>; "talk...@yahoogroups.com" <talk...@yahoogroups.com>; "rafsanj...@gmail.com" <rafsanj...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 7:22 PM
Subject: [talkhard] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
Stevek,
Don’t you think that most people will consider it the appropriate Rule of Law enforcement to use adequate Police or military action to stop terrorists and protect the majority of citizens from mindless individual or group's terrors? I think some of us should go find out how these issues have been handled in the most developed/ civilized societies that we all look up to for global best practices in democratic practices, civil liberties and public safety.
Go find out what happened to the Dravidian sect in Waco TX, when it became necessary to hunt down the terror snipers in DC, Boston bombers etc in USA! It is IMPORTANT for us realize that the consideration of “due process” is secondary to the “immediate response” to any mindless terror threat to lives and public properties, such as what we have with Boko Haram; BH members are not fighting any legitimate cause that meets the human rights defined by the United Nations or embraced by any decent, civilized modern society! Their ancestral land is not occupied; they have not been denied the rights to worship as they choose or like; they are not being forced to do anything! Rather, this religious sect wants to impose its doctrine on the rest of society; and the members use killing of innocent people, destructions and intimidations as their tactics; What else constitutes a threat to public safety, human rights and senseless menace to a society that is in a desperate need for a peaceful polity to grow its democracy, build her functional institutions and advance scientifically and technologically? Where is the room for “due process” in a situation where citizens are being terrorized, innocent lives are being mindlessly terminated and property destructions range in the billions? There is no serious society that discusses “due process” under such a climate.
__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (3)
Recent Activity:
New Members 5
Visit Your Group
MARKETPLACE
Yahoo! Groups
Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use • Send us Feedback
.
__,_._,___
Fubara David-West <david...@yahoo.com>
4:06 AM (11 hours ago)
to Raayiriga
Images are not displayed. Display images below - Always display images from david...@yahoo.com
From: "Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCEZID)" <jb...@cdc.gov>
To: "NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>; "talk...@yahoogroups.com" <talk...@yahoogroups.com>; "naijap...@yahoogroups.com" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "yana...@yahoogroups.com" <yana...@yahoogroups.com>; "raay...@yahoogroups.com" <raay...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:58 PM
Subject: [Raayiriga] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (4)
Recent Activity:
New Members 5
Visit Your Group
MARKETPLACE
Yahoo! Groups
Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use • Send us Feedback
.
__,_._,___
Valentine Ojo via yahoogroups.com
4:57 AM (10 hours ago)
to Rotimi, Nigerian, NigerianWorldF., naijaintellects, USAAfricaDialo., rafsanjanikano, YanArewa, Web, All, lion, Ola, AVATAR, Joseph, Adeniba, Amauche, Anthony, Emeka, Iyalaje, Olushola, Pius, Prince, Rufus, Salihu, Samuel, Suji
Images are not displayed. Display images below - Always display images from elew...@gmail.com
Dr. Ola Kassim:
It is not in my power, and neither is it my position to 'act tough with ordinary Nigerians' or with anyone - I am not in control of the police or the army!
Like you and your 'lion killer', Buster Ogbuagu, Ogbeni Rotimi and myself have merely expressed our own personal opinions.
I do not live in Borno State, and I have no plans to ever live in Borno State or any reason to have to 'dive for cover when ever they are confronted even with just the shadows of terrorists like the Boko Haram'!
Coming from a supposedly educated Nigerian like you, this too illiterate a level of discussion, and I will not descend that low!
You are of course free to fee feel very proud and tough about your stance.
We see how effectively your Nigerian army and the police have been able to deal with the Boko Haram, and how tough your Jonathan has been in facing up to them.
Enu dunun r'ofo, agada owo se e s'anko!
Continue fighting the Boko Haram with your empty mouth and we'll see how far that will get anyone.
Dr. Valentine Ojo
Tall Timbers, MD
On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 9:21 PM, <OlaKa...@aol.com> wrote:
Buster:
You said it all in a few words!
Dr Ojo and his ilk act tough only with
ordinary Nigerians; they dive for cover
when ever they are confronted even with just
the shadows of terrorists like the Boko
Haram.
Let Dr Ojo visit Borno state and start
referring to the Boko Wackos as 'African monkeys'
and we'll see if he survives the encounter even for a minute.
The Boko Haramists are a threat to Nigerian Unity and Prosperity
and Security of her citizens nationwide!
The most effective treatment for a gangrenous or cancerous limb
which is resistant to all other forms of treatment is amputation
or else the gangrene consumes the rest of the body.
Bye,
Ola
---- Original Message ----
From: lion killer <lionki...@hotmail.com>
To: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; naijaintellects <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>; rafsanjanikano <rafsanj...@gmail.com>
Cc: yanarewa <yana...@yahoogroups.com>; Raay...@yahoogroups.com <raay...@yahoogroups.com>; nigerianid <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; nigeriansncanada <nigerian...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Apr 30, 2013 8:29 pm
Subject: RE: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
Ola, I could not agree with you more. The fact that a set of hoodlums can hold 160 million persons, who also happen to claim the title of the most populous nation in Africa is a shame in the first order. It is even more so that the Nigerian government is so yellow-bellied that it negotiates with terrorists, the poignancy of the fact being that GEJ's government if you can call it that is a farce. The concept of Blackmail is that it perpetuates itself and if, mark my words, if Boko " Harem's " tenure ever ends, another terror could promptly take its place, for the fact that there is a higher than normal probability that they will get whatever then want by sheer brute force. Lyndon Baines Johnson was an accidental President, just as Nigeria's current one [their bosses died and they took over], but Johson had an agenda and most of the policies in the US including Medicare, Medicaid, Head Start and the Civil Rights Act of 1964 all stand as a beacon of light of his achievement till date. Johnson's undoing was his preoccupation with Vietnam. On the other hand, the Nigerian accidental President? What President? So, the axiom that we deserve the government we have could not have been more apt. Nigerians, especially those in advisory positions and even those who suffer under it [give them a cup of rice and they will all sing the praises even of those who ravaged them] present as some of the most sycophantic or all lackeys, and unashamedly so. And to think that this charade is orchestrated to continue after 2015? Ola, I pray thee, say it is not so.
Buster Ogbuagu
To: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com; naijain...@googlegroups.com; usaafric...@googlegroups.com; rafsanj...@gmail.com
CC: yana...@yahoogroups.com; Raay...@yahoogroups.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; nigerian...@yahoogroups.com
From: OlaKa...@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 13:23:01 -0400
Subject: Re: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
From: naijain...@googlegroups.com [mailto:naijain...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of E. Obi
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 9:24 AM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com; naijaintellects@googlegroups com; rafsanj...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Naijaintellects] BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
After the Boston marathon bombings. ,the huge city of Boston was locked down and law enforcement agencies NOT the army meticulously searched for and apprehended the suspect without massacaring Bostonians.
EUO
Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
From: Auwal Musa <rafsanj...@gmail.com>;
To: <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>; <naijain...@googlegroups.com>;
Subject: [Naijaintellects] BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
Sent: Tue, Apr 30, 2013 1:16:45 PM
--
BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
Civil Society Legislative Advocacy Centre (CISLAC) is worried about the continued violent violation of human rights by the security agencies on innocent Nigerians. The failure of this government to sincerely handle the insecurity and protect Nigerians from violence orchestrated by merchants of violence through Bombings, Armed robbery, kidnapping, communal clashes, political violence, ethno-religious violence and rape, helps to escalate impunity in Nigeria. This is in spite of the huge resources allocated for security sector in Nigeria which runs into trillions of naira, but yet Nigerians face more security challenges.
The recent development of mass massacre in Baga Town of Borno State is very unfortunate and in particular the alleged blocking access of relief materials to the affected victims days after the mayhem is inhumane and amount to siege. Relief workers are yet to be allowed access to Baga town days after the start of the military operations that left at least 200 people dead and so many homes burnt down. The residents said troops fired indiscriminately and set fires at homes in an apparent retaliation over the death of an officer.
CISLAC is of the opinion that there should be a better mutual understanding of cultures and systems between humanitarian aid workers and troops, so as to develop mutual respect. To do this, it would be useful to put in place a programme of strategic and operational discussions at all levels. National Emergency Management Agency (NEMA) and Red Cross have raised alarm over its inability to administer humanitarian response to victims which is a total contradiction to the United Nation Protocol on options for responding to such crises. Even in war situations, relief materials are distributed to alleviate the sufferings of the people. It is considered very unprofessional not to accept the opportunity to play a more dynamic role on how to coordinate and respond to emergencies which was created by it (the Army) in the first place.
CISLAC considers this a coercive military intervention, even though a military component of some kind has become increasingly necessary in most crises situation; it must not eclipse and violate rights of civilians. Major humanitarian actors from both within and outside Borno, and its aim at facilitating inter-agency analysis and decision making in response to humanitarian emergencies should not be an issue for negotiation considering that access to food is part of civilian protection.
It must be understood that continuous refusal to provide access humanitarian officials to the victims would further create an outbreak of diseases, hunger and deaths of women and children. We consider this siege an impunity which is unacceptable and a contradiction to the rules of engagement in such situation. We condemn this and call for investigation into the Baga saga.
CISLAC calls on relevant authorities to refrain from the current faceoff in Baga, not as an argument about the ‘right to intervene’ but about the ‘responsibility to protect’ and put in place a proper coordination of Humanitarian Affairs in the community to safeguard the lives of people.
CISLAC calls on the authorities to investigate these Army and Police officers involved in this heinous act and ensure that they are not allowed participating in any peacekeeping operations forthwith. These sorts of violations are parts of the image challenges that the nation had suffered over the years from the international community when some Nigerian Army officers were sent for international peace mission.
CISLAC therefore calls on the National Assembly to investigate the trillions of Naira allocated to the executives in the name of security votes, from all indications, insecurity is proving to be a lucrative business which financial appropriation is unaccounted for. This menace has gone on too long and needs to seriously be challenged.
Signed by
Auwal Musa Rafsanjani
Executive Director
CISLAC
Civil Society Legislative Advocacy Centre (CISLAC) is a non-governmental, non-profit legislative advocacy, lobbying, information sharing and research organization. (CISLAC) works towards bridging the gap between the legislature and the electorate; by enhancing lobbying strategies; engagement of bills before their passage into law; manpower development for lawmakers, legislative aides, politicians and the civil society, as well as civic education on the tenets of democracy and Human Rights.
CISLAC has UN ECOSOC consultative status
AUWAL IBRAHIM MUSA (RAFSANJANI)
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR
Civil Society Legislative Advocacy Centre (CISLAC)
Address:
No.7 Mahathma Gandhi Street,
Off Shehu Shagari Way,
By Bullet Garden, Area 11 Junction,
Asokoro, Abuja - Nigeria
Website: www.cislacnigeria.net
Email: in...@cislacnigeria.net, cis...@cislac.kabissa.org,
cislacnatio...@yahoo.com, rafsanj...@yahoo.com
GSM: +234-8033844646, 08052370333, 07034118266
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "naijaintellects" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to naijaintellec...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to naijain...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/naijaintellects?hl=en.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "naijaintellects" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to naijaintellec...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to naijain...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/naijaintellects?hl=en.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (3)
Recent Activity:
New Members 2
Visit Your Group
USAfrica
1st African-owned, U.S.-based professional newspaper published on the internet.
------
CLASS ... The social events and profiles glossy magazine for Africans
in the U.S. and North America. It's the 'Ebony' magazine for the African
professional class across the U.S., north America and the Diaspora
-----
-PHOTOWORKS.tv
Our community's photos mega-site of your special events, weddings, anniversaries, etc
MARKETPLACE
Yahoo! Groups
Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use • Send us Feedback
.
__,_._,___
Valentine Ojo via yahoogroups.com
5:09 AM (10 hours ago)
to Nigerian, Fubara, Joseph, Ola, Rotimi, AVATAR, Adeniba, Amauche, Anthony, Emeka, Iyalaje, Olushola, Pius, Prince, Rufus, Salihu, Samuel, Suji, Sylvester, Tajudeen, wale, Yakubu, bcc: nigeria360
Images are not displayed. Display images below - Always display images from elew...@gmail.com
Joe Igietseme/Fubara David-West:
What have the Nigerian army and police been able to do fefectviely against Boke Haram...?
What were they able to do against your own home-grown terrorists in the Delta, the MEND...?
On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 9:48 PM, Fubara David-West <david...@yahoo.com> wrote:
There can be no resort to due process, before those who are terrorizing a country in the name of a decadent political and cultural mission are arrested. It is the formal arrest that brings the culprits into the open judicial process. The situation facing Nigeria calls for responsible citizenship on the part of community and political leaders, and the general public, especially in the areas most affected. They have to stand up and take active roles in bringing the terrorists to book.
Of course, collateral damage must be avoided. However, people cannot accept a situation where trepidation about collateral damage, turns the larger society into a helpless victim, to be used for target practice at will, by some fringe elements, who are bent on terrorizing the population.
What we have right now is similar, in a lot of ways, to the situation that the United States faced with Osama Bin Ladin, who for years after the 9/11 terrorist attacks on New York and the Pentagon, lived among his protectors in Pakistan, while continuing to direct all sorts of terrorist acts. Note that as long as the Pakistanis among whom he lived refused to turn him in, he could continue to evade the greatest armed forces in the world.
As long as the intelligence services were unable to develop the capability to change the situation, Osama would be alive. Would the United States read Osama Bin Ladin his Miranda rights and arrest him, once his hiding place was breached? Of course not. If several people had been killed in the operation to get Osama Bin Ladin, would the world have called that a massacre? No.
I thank you.
Fubara David-West.
From: "Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCEZID)" <jb...@cdc.gov>
To: "NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>; "<stev...@yahoo.com>" <stev...@yahoo.com>; Ola Kassim <olaka...@aol.com>
Cc: "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; 'Yan Arewa' <yana...@yahoogroups.com>; "usaafric...@googlegroups.com" <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>; "talk...@yahoogroups.com" <talk...@yahoogroups.com>; "rafsanj...@gmail.com" <rafsanj...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 7:22 PM
Subject: [talkhard] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
Stevek,
Don’t you think that most people will consider it the appropriate Rule of Law enforcement to use adequate Police or military action to stop terrorists and protect the majority of citizens from mindless individual or group's terrors? I think some of us should go find out how these issues have been handled in the most developed/ civilized societies that we all look up to for global best practices in democratic practices, civil liberties and public safety.
Go find out what happened to the Dravidian sect in Waco TX, when it became necessary to hunt down the terror snipers in DC, Boston bombers etc in USA! It is IMPORTANT for us realize that the consideration of “due process” is secondary to the “immediate response” to any mindless terror threat to lives and public properties, such as what we have with Boko Haram; BH members are not fighting any legitimate cause that meet the human rights defined by the United Nations or embraced by any decent, civilized modern society! Their ancestral land is not occupied; they have not been denied the rights to worship as they choose or like; they are not being forced to do anything! Rather, this religious sect wants to impose its doctrine on the rest of society; and the members use killing of innocent people, destructions and intimidations as their tactics; What else constitutes a threat to public safety, human rights and senseless menace to a society in a desperate need for a peaceful polity to grow its democracy, build her functional institutions and advance scientifically and technologically? Where is the room for “due process” in a situation where citizens are being terrorized, innocent lives are being mindlessly terminated and property destructions range in the billions? There is no serious society that discusses “due process” under such a climate.
In the apt words of US President Harry Truman: “Unusual problems require uncommon solutions”! Take care. JUI
----------------------------------------- Original Message -------------------------------------------------------------
From: Stevek
Date: 4/30/2013 1:46 PM
To: OlaKa...@aol.com;NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com;naijain...@googlegroups.com;usaafric...@googlegroups.com;rafsanj...@gmail.com;
Cc: yana...@yahoogroups.com;Raay...@yahoogroups.com;niger...@yahoogroups.com;nigerian...@yahoogroups.com;
Subject: Re: NigerianID | Re: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
That's what I thought. That NIDO thing again.
You guys amaze me.
Both of you are staying put in your respective foreign stations because of the benefit of the Rule of Law and Due Process. But you don't care if this man that has been murdered is really guilty of anything or not.
Yet, you Olola, want homosexuals to be married without hinder because they have a right to. But this guy that is murderd without due process should because it makes you feel better that you are doing something against Boko Haram.
You are as logical and consistent as a square peg in a round hole!
due process of law
n. a fundamental principle of fairness in all legal matters, both civil and criminal, especially in the courts. All legal procedures set by statute and court practice, including notice of rights, must be followed for each individual so that no prejudicial or unequal treatment will result. While somewhat indefinite, the term can be gauged by its aim to safeguard both private and public rights against unfairness. The universal guarantee of due process is in the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which provides "No person shall…be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law," and is applied to all states by the 14th Amendment. From this basic principle flows many legal decisions determining both procedural and substantive rights
I hope your turn doesn't come one day as you visit Nigeria!
As Africans, we have to learn to think or perish.
Stevek
Washington, DC, USA
A society of supine lambs breeds erect wolves. - Stevek
A wise man proportions his beliefs to the evidence - David Hume
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "OlaKa...@aol.com" <OlaKa...@aol.com>
To: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com; naijain...@googlegroups.com; usaafric...@googlegroups.com; rafsanj...@gmail.com
Cc: yana...@yahoogroups.com; Raay...@yahoogroups.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; nigerian...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 1:23 PM
Subject: NigerianID | Re: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
JUI:
I share your sentiments and frustrations--some Nigerians can indeed be emotional wretches as you referred to them.
When dog bites man no one complains but when man bites dog some start yelling massacre.
Are the lives of the Boko Haram terrorists worth more than those of their victims?.
How many innocent police officers and soldiers have been killed by the Boko Haram terrorists
in the past few years--without all the hue and cry from the holier than thou crowd?
How many hundreds of civilians have lost their lives and limbs at the hands of the
Boko Haram terrorists
The Boko Haram terrorists are like a cancerous sore in the nation. Serious ailments
need serious solutions!
As long as the federal authorities are taking the necessary care to avoid collateral civilian casualties
the government forces should be using whatever arsenals they have in their possession to eradicate
these miscreants.
Capturing the terrorists alive so they could be tried remains an option only in situations where the
federal forces would not risk their lives to ensure their capture.
Why are some people crying on behalf of terrorists--when they would rather die so they
could get their 72 virgins in heaven?
Why are some Nigerians playing politics with this serious matter?
Bye,
Ola
---- Original Message ----From: Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCEZID) (CDC/OID/NCEZID) <jigie...@cdc.gov>To: naijaintellects@googlegroups com <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>; rafsanjanikano <rafsanj...@gmail.com>Cc: 'Yan Arewa' <yana...@yahoogroups.com>; Raayiriga <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; 'NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com' <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Tue, Apr 30, 2013 10:51 amSubject: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
Nigerians are just emotional wretches, a confused bunch of people who like to eat their cake and still hold it in their hands! Let them go see how laws are enforced around the world and they will realized that the baby gloves with which the Govt and people are handling Boko Haram is mainly responsible for why the situation is till not under control.
A bunch of mindless, rag-tag religionists cannot hold a nation to ransom and render citizens’ live in a standstill; NO WAY!!! Take care. JUI
From: naijain...@googlegroups.com [mailto:naijain...@googlegroups.com?] On Behalf Of E. Obi
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 9:24 AM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com; naijaintellects@googlegroups com; rafsanj...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Naijaintellects] BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
After the Boston marathon bombings. ,the huge city of Boston was locked down and law enforcement agencies NOT the army meticulously searched for and apprehended the suspect without massacaring Bostonians.
EUO
Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
From: Auwal Musa <rafsanj...@gmail.com>;
To: <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>; <naijain...@googlegroups.com>;
Subject: [Naijaintellects] BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
Sent: Tue, Apr 30, 2013 1:16:45 PM
--
BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
Civil Society Legislative Advocacy Centre (CISLAC) is worried about the continued violent violation of human rights by the security agencies on innocent Nigerians. The failure of this government to sincerely handle the insecurity and protect Nigerians from violence orchestrated by merchants of violence through Bombings, Armed robbery, kidnapping, communal clashes, political violence, ethno-religious violence and rape, helps to escalate impunity in Nigeria. This is in spite of the huge resources allocated for security sector in Nigeria which runs into trillions of naira, but yet Nigerians face more security challenges.
The recent development of mass massacre in Baga Town of Borno State is very unfortunate and in particular the alleged blocking access of relief materials to the affected victims days after the mayhem is inhumane and amount to siege. Relief workers are yet to be allowed access to Baga town days after the start of the military operations that left at least 200 people dead and so many homes burnt down. The residents said troops fired indiscriminately and set fires at homes in an apparent retaliation over the death of an officer.
CISLAC is of the opinion that there should be a better mutual understanding of cultures and systems between humanitarian aid workers and troops, so as to develop mutual respect. To do this, it would be useful to put in place a programme of strategic and operational discussions at all levels. National Emergency Management Agency (NEMA) and Red Cross have raised alarm over its inability to administer humanitarian response to victims which is a total contradiction to the United Nation Protocol on options for responding to such crises. Even in war situations, relief materials are distributed to alleviate the sufferings of the people. It is considered very unprofessional not to accept the opportunity to play a more dynamic role on how to coordinate and respond to emergencies which was created by it (the Army) in the first place.
CISLAC considers this a coercive military intervention, even though a military component of some kind has become increasingly necessary in most crises situation; it must not eclipse and violate rights of civilians. Major humanitarian actors from both within and outside Borno, and its aim at facilitating inter-agency analysis and decision making in response to humanitarian emergencies should not be an issue for negotiation considering that access to food is part of civilian protection.
It must be understood that continuous refusal to provide access humanitarian officials to the victims would further create an outbreak of diseases, hunger and deaths of women and children. We consider this siege an impunity which is unacceptable and a contradiction to the rules of engagement in such situation. We condemn this and call for investigation into the Baga saga.
CISLAC calls on relevant authorities to refrain from the current faceoff in Baga, not as an argument about the ‘right to intervene’ but about the ‘responsibility to protect’ and put in place a proper coordination of Humanitarian Affairs in the community to safeguard the lives of people.
CISLAC calls on the authorities to investigate these Army and Police officers involved in this heinous act and ensure that they are not allowed participating in any peacekeeping operations forthwith. These sorts of violations are parts of the image challenges that the nation had suffered over the years from the international community when some Nigerian Army officers were sent for international peace mission.
CISLAC therefore calls on the National Assembly to investigate the trillions of Naira allocated to the executives in the name of security votes, from all indications, insecurity is proving to be a lucrative business which financial appropriation is unaccounted for. This menace has gone on too long and needs to seriously be challenged.
Signed by
Auwal Musa Rafsanjani
Executive Director
CISLAC
Civil Society Legislative Advocacy Centre (CISLAC) is a non-governmental, non-profit legislative advocacy, lobbying, information sharing and research organization. (CISLAC) works towards bridging the gap between the legislature and the electorate; by enhancing lobbying strategies; engagement of bills before their passage into law; manpower development for lawmakers, legislative aides, politicians and the civil society, as well as civic education on the tenets of democracy and Human Rights.
CISLAC has UN ECOSOC consultative status
AUWAL IBRAHIM MUSA (RAFSANJANI)EXECUTIVE DIRECTORCivil Society Legislative Advocacy Centre (CISLAC)Address: No.7 Mahathma Gandhi Street, Off Shehu Shagari Way, By Bullet Garden, Area 11 Junction,Asokoro, Abuja - NigeriaWebsite: http://www.cislacnigeria.net/
Email: in...@cislacnigeria.net, cis...@cislac.kabissa.org,
cislacnatio...@yahoo.com, rafsanj...@yahoo.comGSM: +234-8033844646, 08052370333, 07034118266
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "naijaintellects" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to naijaintellec...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to naijain...@googlegroups.com.Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/naijaintellects?hl=en.For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "naijaintellects" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to naijaintellec...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to naijain...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/naijaintellects?hl=en.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (4)
.
__,_._,___
Ahmad Sanusi sanusi....@gmail.com via yahoogroups.com
5:55 AM (9 hours ago)
to Raayiriga
Images are not displayed. Display images below - Always display images from sanusi....@gmail.com
Are you justifying the extra judicial killings whereby policemen ask unarmed young men to lie down in the open and shot to death as we see in the Aljazeera video on YouTube and the killing of captured Yusuf in the police HQ?
Ahmad U. Sanusi
From: "Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCEZID)" <jb...@cdc.gov>
Sender: Raay...@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 00:22:57 +0000
To: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com<NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>; <stev...@yahoo.com><stev...@yahoo.com>; Ola Kassim<olaka...@aol.com>
ReplyTo: Raay...@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Raay...@yahoogroups.com<Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; 'Yan Arewa'<yana...@yahoogroups.com>; usaafric...@googlegroups.com<usaafric...@googlegroups.com>; talk...@yahoogroups.com<talk...@yahoogroups.com>; rafsanj...@gmail.com<rafsanj...@gmail.com>
Subject: [Raayiriga] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (5)
Recent Activity:
New Members 5
Visit Your Group
MARKETPLACE
Yahoo! Groups
Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use • Send us Feedback
.
__,_._,___
rotimi Fashakin <rot...@yahoo.com>
8:29 AM (7 hours ago)
to Joan, NIgerianWorldF., stevek941, Ola, Raayiriga, Yan, usaafricadialo., talkhard, rafsanjanikano
Images are not displayed. Display images below - Always display images from rot...@yahoo.com
Dr Joe Igietseme,
Methinks that the same perspicacious treatment you give to work-related issues -which has ennobled you into the status of a renowned Bacteriologist- is exactly what you are expected to do with this issue!
Boko Haram started as a socio-religious group that was a kind of puritanical group. Initially, they were going after muslims clerics, who in their opinion were not pure muslims. We read of early morning raids in mosques at that time. They forbade themselves from seeking western education. What did the police do? They attacked them
Is there a parallel in the US?
Of course, the Amish people of Lancaster, PA. They started as a puritanical religious group in Europe and later became a socio-religious group (in the US) that loathes modern comfort of life. They do not inter-marry, ride automobiles, use electricity and seek formal education beyond 8th grade. The US government did not attack them but rather, instituted a law suit. In 1972, the US supreme Court forbade anyone from interfering with the decision of the group as part of their fundamental rights. They have found a way to integrate the Amish people. In 1985, I ate in an Amish restaurant. If you go to Lancaster, PA today, do not be surprised that the grocery shop you are in may be owned by Amish people.
As we speak, they still ride their horse-driven carts; their pumps are powered by the wind. Nobody has disturbed them. That is the way of civility.
I just wonder what we probably missed as a Nation.
Last year, we came to US for my son's MBA graduation and he opted for a Naija restaurant in Queens, NY. I saw as part of their menu, suya Obalende. Of course, that gave me some nostalgic feeling. I wondered aloud what would have happened if the yorubas in lagos had shown immense hostility to the Hausa/fulani settling in Obalende many years ago, would there ever be anything called 'suya obalende'?
Let the truth be told: we (as a Nation) goofed in our initial handling of the Boko -haram issue. Now it has snowballed into a big calamity. We are now hearing that they desire an Islamic state. But that was not the initial objective of the group. Could they have been infiltrated by terror organisations of this world, in the course of their struggle with the Nigerian authority? May be, Yes!
How do we move forward?
If Boko haram insurgents are killed in their shoot-out with JTF soldiers, that is OK. But it is abominable for JTF soldiers to go from house to house, searching for Boko-haram and killing every unarmed youth in sight!
It is equally reprehensible for the Nigerian security forces to kill extra-judicially any captured Boko-haram operative, just like their leader (Mohammed Yussuf). The way of civility is to try them in our Courts!
It is my opinion that the police men that killed mohammed Yussuf and the other youths (which Al-Jazeera showed us) must be tried for murder. If found guilty, they should be killed at the very spot where they did the first killing.
I have told this story before but, because of its relevance to this case, would be willing to tell it again.
The late General MB Haladu told me (whilst being the Commandant of NASI, jaji where I did my youth service). He commanded a small unit during the civil war. After the war, two soldiers from his unit killed two Nigerians of Igbo extraction. When asked, the murderous two-some averred that the victims were Biafrans! So Gen Haladu set up a court-martial which found them guilty. The Kano-born General then ordered the firing squad be set up at the very spot where the killing was done. That was it. Justice had been done.
I was in a prayer meeting in Akure (organised by Gen Gowon) on June 6, 1998(two days before Abacha's death). Gowon told us that we should thank God for the nation that the people they fought did not resort to guerrilla warfare instead of surrendering. That was very instructive!
Many of the commentaries I have been reading -even from respected academics- are not deep at all. We do not show any understanding of the issues.
Just my two-kobo contribution!
Rotimi.
Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN
From: "Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCEZID)" <jigie...@cdc.gov>
Sender: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 00:22:57 +0000
To: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com<NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>; <stev...@yahoo.com><stev...@yahoo.com>; Ola Kassim<olaka...@aol.com>
ReplyTo: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Raay...@yahoogroups.com<Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; 'Yan Arewa'<yana...@yahoogroups.com>; usaafric...@googlegroups.com<usaafric...@googlegroups.com>; talk...@yahoogroups.com<talk...@yahoogroups.com>; rafsanj...@gmail.com<rafsanj...@gmail.com>
Subject: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (28)
Recent Activity:
New Members 43
Visit Your Group
MARKETPLACE
Yahoo! Groups
Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use • Send us Feedback
.
__,_._,___
Oluwatoyin Adepoju <ovad...@gmail.com>
10:05 AM (5 hours ago)
to NIgerianWorldF., stevek941, Ola, Raayiriga, Yan, usaafricadialo., talkhard, rafsanjanikano, Joan
Rotimi Fashakin continues to reproduce falsehood on this subject even when the facts are available for him to address.
Lets take the falsehoods one by one:
FALSE:
'Boko Haram started as a socio-religious group that was a kind of puritanical group. Initially, they were going after muslims clerics, who in their opinion were not pure muslims. We read of early morning raids in mosques at that time. They forbade themselves from seeking western education. What did the police do? They attacked them.
FACT:
Boko Haram was inherently murderous from their formation. They responded with murderous threats when the Borno state govt sent Muslim clerics to reason with them, threatening to slaughter the clerics.
A fiormative group from which Boko Haram split even opened the war against Nigeria through two separate attacks on a police station and a town where many lives were lost.
The Borno state govt tried to have them leave the 'state' they had constructed in Borno. They responded with sophisticated firepower.
Information source: Ahmad Salikda Genesis and consequences of Boko Haram crisis.
SELF CONTRADICTION:
Fashakin states" Initially, they were going after muslims clerics, who in their opinion were not pure muslims. We read of early morning raids in mosques at that time."
What did Boko Haram do in "going after muslims clerics, who in their opinion were not pure muslims [through]early morning raids in mosques at that time."
Were they raiding the mosques to invite the clerics for debate?
What is a raid, a peaceful or forceful, invasive activity?
How can a person who contrdicts himself in such basic reporting and analysis now state that "Many of the commentaries I have been reading -even from respected academics- are not deep at all. We do not show any understanding of the issues".?
What is wrong with Fashakin's relationship with this matter? It is disturbing. Na wa o.
NOT WORTHY OF BEING GLORIFIED BY BEING DESCRIBED AS EVEN FALSE:
Equating the honest and peaceful Amish, with the hypocritical and murderous Islamic terrorists Boko Haram who, in a quest to evangelise Nigeria into a Muslim state, have initiated a campaign of mass murder and sheer terror, bombing churches and machine gunning escaping worshipers, on Christmas and Sundays, bombing police stations, army barracks, churches, and schools, massacring WAEC students by slitting their throats, assassinating anyone who informs against them and killing or attempting Northern Nigerian leaders.
Anybody equating the Amish and Boko Haram is doing something evil.
Amish dont use any modern technology. Boko Haram, in its grand stupidity, bans Western education but uses some of the most sophisticated products of Western education in its campaign of terror. This suggests that they want power to control and dominate people, not genuine social restructuring.
Anybody equating Amish and Boko Haram along such lines needs to be look carefully at their reasoning processes.
How did you confirm this?:
'But it is abominable for JTF soldiers to go from house to house, searching for Boko-haram and killing every unarmed youth in sight!'
The very height of what I dont want to give the evil name it deserves:
"It is my opinion that the police men that killed mohammed Yussuf and the other youths (which Al-Jazeera showed us) must be tried for murder. If found guilty, they should be killed at the very spot where they did the first killing."
After the absolute horror Boko Haram has inflicted on this nation, someone is still trying to appease the terrorists?
Salkida puts the Yusuf murder in context in terms of ycle of inhumanity unleashed by Boko Haram:
“Unfortunately, late Yusuf’s teachings that caused crisis and death of hundreds of our gallant security agents and made it inhuman for people like Yusuf to survive, contradicts not only Islam which he claims to be preaching to his followers but his very existence.
I saw when members of the sect slaughtered a police sergeant, L. Adamu. He pleaded with them that he was never against them and said he was a fellow Muslim but yet they slaughtered him like a goat.
Was this the reason why the police and military summarily executed the suspected sect members in the same manner the sect did to their colleagues?":
I would have declared Fashakin an enemy of Nigeria but I wont, so as not to fall into the trap of branding even those whose ideas are against the nation as enemies, even though their primary problem could be delusion.
We must be on the alert, however, to counter ideologies that amount to selling the country and its citizens to terrorists in the name of a distorted sense of justice, in the case of Fashakin, based on clear, easily verifiable falsehoods.
thanks
toyin
10:56 AM (4 hours ago)
to NIgerianWorldF., stevek941, Ola, Raayiriga, Yan, usaafricadialo., talkhard, rafsanjanikano, Joan
Images are not displayed. Display images below - Always display images from rot...@yahoo.com
Toyin Adepoju,
A man, nay an academic, who bases his entire hypothesis on an article, is an intellectual neophyte.
Just a digression. On April 22, 2011, Reuben Abati wrote an article in his Guardian friday column. Therein, he alluded to GMB as the author of the post-election violence that broke out in the North. Gullible folks like yourself (I am sure) had gone to town with that penned lunacy, though the writer had no verifiable evidence to support his claim! GMB had since sued Guardian and Abati; the two persons have been searching endlessly for evidence to cover their idiocy.
The question I ask you is: the fact that boko haram as a group employed violent tactics should mean that Nigeria, as nation state, should kill everything breathing in the sight in the name of searching for insurgents? Should that mean that any captured insurgent should not be put through formal judicial process? See, what goes round comes round. JF Kenedy said: "InJustice anywhere is threat to justice everywhere"
This is exactly what Gen Victor Malu did not understand as Chief of Army Staff in Obj's govt. He deployed soldiers to invade Odi. He did not care because his ancestral home is far from there. But not too long afterwards, the same injustice by the same govt was extended to his kith and kin in Zaki Biam. Of course, he hollered and no one answered him.
Those, whose ancestral homes and brothers/sisters have been extra-judicially destroyed by Nigerian soldiers, have been wailing and calling for justice. You may justify it by saying Boko haram started it. But remember, what goes round comes round. You are free to continue gloating in this insensitivity. It is your choice.
Rotimi.
Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN
From: Oluwatoyin Adepoju <ovad...@gmail.com>
Sender: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 10:05:34 +0100
To: <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>
ReplyTo: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com
Cc: <stev...@yahoo.com><stev...@yahoo.com>; Ola Kassim<olaka...@aol.com>; Raay...@yahoogroups.com<Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; Yan Arewa<yana...@yahoogroups.com>; usaafric...@googlegroups.com<usaafric...@googlegroups.com>; talk...@yahoogroups.com<talk...@yahoogroups.com>; rafsanj...@gmail.com<rafsanj...@gmail.com>; Joan Oviawe<joano...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (32)
Recent Activity:
New Members 43
Visit Your Group
MARKETPLACE
Yahoo! Groups
Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use • Send us Feedback
.
__,_._,___
Oluwatoyin Adepoju <ovad...@gmail.com>
11:41 AM (3 hours ago)
to NIgerianWorldF., stevek941, Ola, Raayiriga, Yan, usaafricadialo., talkhard, rafsanjanikano, Joan
These are the two relevant points being made by Rotimi-
'The question I ask you is: the fact that boko haram as a group employed violent tactics should mean that Nigeria, as nation state, should kill everything breathing in the sight in the name of searching for insurgents? Should that mean that any captured insurgent should not be put through formal judicial process? See, what goes round comes round. JF Kenedy said: "InJustice anywhere is threat to justice everywhere".
My response- how do you justify this point-
'Nigeria, as nation state, should kill everything breathing in the sight in the name of searching for insurgents?'
How do you know you are correct?
Second point-
'A man, nay an academic, who bases his entire hypothesis on an article, is an intellectual neophyte.'
Response- Salkida's account is corroborated the UN agency IRIN.
I presented that information on these fora last year.
Will need to dig it out.
Can easily get further corroboration now that I know the groups had not become known as Boko Haram as at the time of the incident.
On the post election violence, Buahari is culpable by association because of the inciting character of his remarks before the election. The committee that investigated the violence stated that his comments could have planted ideas that led to the violence.
Bro, you have to try harder.
toyin
These are the two relevant points being made by Rotimi-
'The question I ask you is: the fact that boko haram as a group employed
violent tactics should mean that Nigeria, as nation state, should kill
everything breathing in the sight in the name of searching for insurgents?
Should that mean that any captured insurgent should not be put through
formal judicial process? See, what goes round comes round. JF Kenedy said:
"InJustice anywhere is threat to justice everywhere".
*
My response*- how do you justify this point-
'Nigeria, as nation state, should kill everything breathing in the sight in
the name of searching for insurgents?'
How do you know you are correct?
Second point-
'A man, nay an academic, who bases his entire hypothesis on an article, is
an intellectual neophyte.'
*Response*- Salkida's account is corroborated the UN agency IRIN.
I presented that information on these fora last year.
Will need to dig it out.
Can easily get further corroboration now that I know the groups had not
become known as Boko Haram as at the time of the incident.
On the post election violence, Buahari is culpable by association because
of the inciting character of his remarks before the election. The committee
that investigated the violence stated that his comments could have planted
ideas that led to the violence.
Bro, you have to try harder.
toyin
Dr Joe Igietseme,<br>Methinks that the same perspicacious treatment you giv=
e to work-related issues -which has ennobled you into the status of a renow=
ned Bacteriologist- is exactly what you are expected to do with this issue!=
<br>
Boko Haram started as a socio-religious group that was a kind of puritanic=
al group. Initially, they were going after muslims clerics, who in their op=
inion were not pure muslims. We read of early morning raids in mosques at t=
hat time. They forbade themselves from seeking western education. What did =
the police do? They attacked them<br>
Is there a parallel in the US?<br>Of course, the Amish people of Lancaster,=
Stevek
12:21 PM (3 hours ago)
to NIgerianWorldF., OlaKassimMD, naijaintellects, usaafricadialo., rafsanjanikano, yanarewa, raayiriga, nigerianid, nigeriansncana.
Joe,
Take Rotimi's advice and look at these issues with the discernment you aply to a laboratoy study protocol and interpretation of results. In other words, separate the apples from the oranges.
A hanbdcuffed man is shot while in police custody. The Branch Davidian, a bunch of heavily armed people, are holed up and threaten to let mayhem loose if anyone threaten to disloge them. Are these two situations comparable?
If you say yes, then you are, probably, saying that the P-level facility for studying Ebola or HIV should be no different from that for studying mycoplasma. Hate of Boko Haram does not mean love of extra-judicial murder; the two are different and separate in rational minds.
This is not about whether Boko Haram is good or bad. This is about Due Process and the sovreignty of the individual imbued with certain inalinable rights. No matter what crimes a human being is suspected of, that human must be accorded human rights through due process and not be treated like an animal that is killed when out of control. That is the basis of civilization all over the world where there is civiliazition.
Try to reason this in several steps instead of a single step of 'Boko Haram is bad. This man was a Boko Haram suspect. Therefore, he is a bad man that deserves to die'. Even the unrefined law enforcement agents that killed him didn't reason that way because they know that such an argument is untenable. That is why they argued that he shot because he was trying to escape. That is why you should show some discernment and argue only on whether a handcuffed man under custody is capable of escaping instaed of justifying cold-blooded murder.
And this handcuffed man that was killed by police could be you in one of your visits to Agenebode. Remember that!
The rest of the stuff you wrote is the usual NIDO stuff which is a strange language I have not bothered to learn.
Now, if it is okay for the police to render judgment and execution of judgment, then what is the phrase, 'innocent until proven guilty by a competent court of law mean' mean? Where was the evidence presented and to whom about the guilt of this man and what is the applicable law for death sentence?
As Africans, we have to learn to think or perish.
Stevek
Washington, DC, USA
A society of supine lambs breeds erect wolves. - Stevek
A wise man proportions his beliefs to the evidence - David Hume
From: "Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCEZID)" <jigie...@cdc.gov>
To: "OlaKa...@aol.com" <OlaKa...@aol.com>; "NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "usaafric...@googlegroups.com" <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>; "rafsanj...@gmail.com" <rafsanj...@gmail.com>
Cc: "yana...@yahoogroups.com" <yana...@yahoogroups.com>; "raay...@yahoogroups.com" <raay...@yahoogroups.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; "nigerian...@yahoogroups.com" <nigerian...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 9:39 PM
Subject: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
From: naijain...@googlegroups.com [mailto:naijain...@googlegroups.com?] On Behalf Of E. Obi
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 9:24 AM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com; naijaintellects@googlegroups com; rafsanj...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Naijaintellects] BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
After the Boston marathon bombings. ,the huge city of Boston was locked down and law enforcement agencies NOT the army meticulously searched for and apprehended the suspect without massacaring Bostonians.
EUO
Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
Website: http://www.cislacnigeria.net/
Email: in...@cislacnigeria.net, cis...@cislac.kabissa.org,
cislacnatio...@yahoo.com, rafsanj...@yahoo.com
GSM: +234-8033844646, 08052370333, 07034118266
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "naijaintellects" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to naijaintellec...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to naijain...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/naijaintellects?hl=en.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "naijaintellects" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to naijaintellec...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to naijain...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/naijaintellects?hl=en.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (34)
Recent Activity:
New Members 43
Visit Your Group
MARKETPLACE
Yahoo! Groups
Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use • Send us Feedback
.
__,_._,___
Stevek
12:37 PM (3 hours ago)
to NIgerianWorldF., talkhard, naijapolitics, nigeria360, yanarewa, raayiriga
”””There can be no resort to due process, before those who are terrorizing a country in the name of a decadent political and cultural mission are arrested. It is the formal arrest that brings the culprits into the open judicial process. ”””””Unquote Bro Fubara!
Joe,
'Bro.' Fubara stated that no due process should be applied to terrorist and that they should, instead, be arrested and tried. And you cried, 'amen'.
Read what he wrote again. He insists that the terrorists should be arrested then tried in a court of law. But they should not be given due process until their arrest.
Being arrested and tried in a court of law IS DUE PROCESS! What we are arguing is that being arrested and killed is wrong. Simple, sir.
It is a wonder that we can even have any kind of discussion on any subject here (especially, with NIDO types) since we all seem to speak and understand only our own special language.
HR Menken was right whenn he stated that 'Insincerity is the greatest impedimet of clear speech'. At least, in this case, it is!
As Africans, we have to learn to think or perish.
Stevek
Washington, DC, USA
A society of supine lambs breeds erect wolves. - Stevek
A wise man proportions his beliefs to the evidence - David Hume
From: "Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCEZID)" <jigie...@cdc.gov>
To: "NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>; "talk...@yahoogroups.com" <talk...@yahoogroups.com>; "naijap...@yahoogroups.com" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "yana...@yahoogroups.com" <yana...@yahoogroups.com>; "raay...@yahoogroups.com" <raay...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 9:58 PM
Subject: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
“””””There can be no resort to due process, before those who are terrorizing a country in the name of a decadent political and cultural mission are arrested. It is the formal arrest that brings the culprits into the open judicial process. ”””””Unquote Bro Fubara!
Daalu Bro Fubara for capturing and explicitly clarifying this vital POINT! Take care. JUI
From: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Fubara David-West
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 9:48 PM
To: talk...@yahoogroups.com; naijap...@yahoogroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [NIgerianWorldForum] Re: [talkhard] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
There can be no resort to due process, before those who are terrorizing a country in the name of a decadent political and cultural mission are arrested. It is the formal arrest that brings the culprits into the open judicial process. The situation facing Nigeria calls for responsible citizenship on the part of community and political leaders, and the general public, especially in the areas most affected. They have to stand up and take active roles in bringing the terrorists to book.
Of course, collateral damage must be avoided. However, people cannot accept a situation where trepidation about collateral damage, turns the larger society into a helpless victim, to be used for target practice at will, by some fringe elements, who are bent on terrorizing the population.
What we have right now is similar, in a lot of ways, to the situation that the United States faced with Osama Bin Ladin, who for years after the 9/11 terrorist attacks on New York and the Pentagon, lived among his protectors in Pakistan, while continuing to direct all sorts of terrorist acts. Note that as long as the Pakistanis among whom he lived refused to turn him in, he could continue to evade the greatest armed forces in the world.
As long as the intelligence services were unable to develop the capability to change the situation, Osama would be alive. Would the United States read Osama Bin Ladin his Miranda rights and arrest him, once his hiding place was breached? Of course not. If several people had been killed in the operation to get Osama Bin Ladin, would the world have called that a massacre? No.
I thank you.
Fubara David-West.
__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (8)
Recent Activity:
New Members 29
New Files 1
Visit Your Group
MARKETPLACE
Yahoo! Groups
Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use • Send us Feedback
.
__,_._,___
uke...@gmail.com via yahoogroups.com
12:31 PM (3 hours ago)
to talkhard, NIgerianWorldF., stevek941, Ola, Raayiriga, Yan, usaafricadialo., rafsanjanikano, Joan
Images are not displayed. Display images below - Always display images from uke...@gmail.com
Folks,
Actually, Boko Haram started. or was organized to replace Boys and Girls Scout of Northern Nigeria. I even saw their initial parade on CNN. Truly, any man that compares Amish to Boko Haram probably using goat head as his drinker.
So Police men killed Muhammed Yussuf, Boko Haram killed Youth Corpers doing community services, innocent worshipers on Christmas Day, in churches on Sundays and innocent children and passengers at the bus stations. What a reasoning!!
Has this man ever consider were he would be if everyone that lost their family members take up arms to revenge the deaths of their love ones. Evidently, reasoning is indeed not cheap and for sure not for children.
Obviously some Nigerians use their heads only for wearing hats and caps or mostly for Turbanning.
The NY visitor stated:
"After the war, two soldiers... killed two Nigerians of Igbo extraction. When asked, the murderous two-some averred that the victims were Biafrans! So Gen Haladu set up a court-martial which found them guilty. The Kano-born General then ordered the firing squad be set up at the very spot where the killing was done. That was it. Justice had been done."
Why the Boko Haram apologist doesn't bother to recommend same treatments he narrated above to those who bombed churches, killed innocent citizens including children, Youth Corpers and High school pupils is only known to him and his God. Shouldn't that have been balanced and fair? Oh no! He is apologizing for a sadistic, murderous and criminal enterprise called Boko Haram. Anyway, that is why he added "two kobo." It says it well.
I am pained that these criminals have made it exceedingly difficult for me to visit my family in Borno
and has destroyed the economy of once booming, bouyance and progressive city of Maiduguri, my second home.
That is the way it is now.
Ukpong Ekam
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone provided by Airtel Nigeria.
From: Oluwatoyin Adepoju <ovad...@gmail.com>
Sender: talk...@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 10:05:34 +0100
To: <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>
ReplyTo: talk...@yahoogroups.com
Cc: <stev...@yahoo.com><stev...@yahoo.com>; Ola Kassim<olaka...@aol.com>; Raay...@yahoogroups.com<Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; Yan Arewa<yana...@yahoogroups.com>; usaafric...@googlegroups.com<usaafric...@googlegroups.com>; talk...@yahoogroups.com<talk...@yahoogroups.com>; rafsanj...@gmail.com<rafsanj...@gmail.com>; Joan Oviawe<joano...@gmail.com>
Subject: [talkhard] Re: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (4)
Recent Activity:
New Members 29
New Files 1
Visit Your Group
MARKETPLACE
Yahoo! Groups
Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use • Send us Feedback
.
__,_._,___
Gregg via yahoogroups.com
1:46 PM (1 hour ago)
to NIgerianWorldF.
Images are not displayed. Display images below - Always display images from guka...@comcast.net
Seems like we are pretending that Boko Haram terrorists are willing to be arrested and are waiting at nearest intersection for a Squad Car to pull up and take them down to the Police Station. Except if one wants to carry naivete to new heights, the above will never happen.
The process of trying to arrest dangerously armed men is most often accompanied with extreme violence. If the terrorists survives the "shootout" then you can talk of due process. The terrorist does not want due process and does everything in his power to avoid it including mixing in with civilians and shooting, running into safe houses and shooting, indulging in all kinds of ploy that will result in mass civilian casualty for public relations purposes.
The due process argument below does not stand to reason in Boko Haram's case. Boko Haram against Nigeria is warfare. The terrorists are enemy combatants. If they are captured alive, Nigeria can bend over backwards and try them in civilian courts since they do not represent a standing army of any nation. Otherwise, they should be court martialed. Innocent until proven guilty does not apply to them. They themselves have to prove that they are innocent. That's just how it is.
The communities hiding these terrorists know the risk involved and no one here should pretend that if the members of those communities become collateral damage in a risk they consciously chose to undertake, that Nigeria Army of Police should be blamed.
Let's be a little realistic here, there is no way to sort out the terrorists from the civilians hiding them. The terrorists don't wear uniforms, and law enforcement will return fire in the direction from which shots were fired in the first place. The bleeding heart attitude towards the terrorists is grossly misplaced, no one asked them to become terrorists.
Terrorism is not civil disobedience and it is apples and oranges to argue as if they are the same. People who engage in civil disobedience can be arrested and given due process. Barring a negotiated settlement, terrorists can only be subdued with overwhelming force. That's the appropriate strategy Nigeria should use towards Boko Haram.
Anyone who feels he or she can talk Boko Haram out into the town square, have them lay down their arms, sit on the ground and wait for Police should step up immediately and try.
Since that will not happen, Nigeria should continue using overwhelming force to tackle the issue. The terrorists are trained fighters. They know what to do to get due process. It is in their manual. Wave a white flag, cross the firing line, hands in the air, lay on the ground, hands behind the back for handcuffs. Anyone one of them that does that, will get due process.
Let's not forget that the Boko Haram terrorists chose to forgo living in civil society and are actually trying to upend civil society and constitution, and replace both with their own rules. They know the consequences, no one should cry for them unless the person doesn't want the problem solved.
And by the way, how much due process did Boko Haram give all the people it slaughtered?
*ezekwe*
__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (36)
Recent Activity:
New Members 43
Visit Your Group
MARKETPLACE
Yahoo! Groups
Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use • Send us Feedback
.
__,_._,___
Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCEZID) via yahoogroups.com
2:54 PM (45 minutes ago)
to Rotimi, NIgerianWorldF., stevek941, Ola, Raayiriga, Yan, usaafricadialo., talkhard, rafsanjanikano, Joan, naija
Images are not displayed. Display images below - Always display images from jb...@cdc.gov
“”””””Boko Haram started as a socio-religious group that was a kind of puritanical group. Initially, they were going after muslims clerics, who in their opinion were not pure muslims. We read of early morning raids in mosques at that time. They forbade themselves from seeking western education. What did the police do? They attacked them
Is there a parallel in the US?
Of course, the Amish people of Lancaster, PA. They started as a puritanical religious group in Europe and later became a socio-religious group (in the US) that loathes modern comfort of life. They do not inter-marry, ride automobiles, use electricity and seek formal education beyond 8th grade. The US government did not attack them but rather, instituted a law suit. In 1972, the US supreme Court forbade anyone from interfering with the decision of the group as part of their fundamental rights. They have found a way to integrate the Amish people. In 1985, I ate in an Amish restaurant. If you go to Lancaster, PA today, do not be surprised that the grocery shop you are in may be owned by Amish people. ”””””Unquote Chief [Engr] Rotimi Fashakin
Chief,
As some of us have observed over the years, the greatest danger Nigeria and several developing societies face and causing the apparent thread-milling in societal development is the tendency of a “fly-over” or “lay-over” experience abroad to qualify some people as “experienced” sojourners and experts in the ways of the developed societies. You just displayed that appalling practice with your Amish example excerpted from your statement below. According to your example, your occasional trips to the US [such as the possibility of getting a degree here or coming for your Son’s MBA graduation and flying back to Nigeria] have now made you a US Expertise; but you have essentially mis-spoke and misled anybody who would mistakenly use the baseless information you forged out of imagined and assumed picture of how things work here! And it is a habit that most of you should QUIT! It is not helping Nigeria or other developing societies because the fact is that things are more REAL than apparent to your superficial observations and experiences in the US.
Now, listen intently to JUI who has spend almost 30 years in the US [schooled here; on a stable professional career here; has a family here; has resided in 4 States; and has visited over 40 of the 50 States of the Union!]:
1. Even as the Amish people wanted to do their thing, they have to obey the laws of the land! If they don’t, they will face instant prosecution! See the following historical encounters between the Amish Community and the US Govts over the years:
(a) The Amish do not usually educate their children past the eighth grade, believing that the basic knowledge offered up to that point is sufficient to prepare one for the Amish lifestyle. Almost no Amish go to high school and college. In many communities, the Amish operate their own schools, which are typically one-room schoolhouses with teachers (young unmarried women) from the Amish community. On May 19, 1972, Jonas Yoder and Wallace Miller of the Old Order Amish, and Adin Yutzy of the Conservative Amish Mennonite Church, were each fined $5 for refusing to send their children, aged 14 and 15, to high school. In Wisconsin v. Yoder, the Wisconsin Supreme Court overturned the conviction,[49] and the U.S. Supreme Court affirmed this, finding the benefits of universal education do not justify a violation of the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment.[50]
(b) Like other citizens, Amish pay sales and property taxes. But even though their buggies, bicyclists, and pedestrians use public highways, the Amish need not pay either motor vehicle registration fees or motor fuel taxes.[51] Under their beliefs and traditions, generally the Amish do not agree with the idea of Social Security benefits and have a religious objection to insurance.[52] On this basis, the United States Internal Revenue Service agreed in 1961 that they did not need to pay Social Security-related taxes. In 1965, this policy was codified into law.[53] Self-employed individuals in certain sects do not pay into, nor receive benefits from, United States Social Security. This exemption applies to members of a religious group that is conscientiously opposed to accepting benefits of any private or public insurance, provides a reasonable level of living for its dependent members and has existed continuously since December 31, 1950.[54] The U.S. Supreme Court in 1982 clarified that Amish employers are not exempt, but only those Amish individuals who are self-employed.[55](c
(c) http://nbcphiladelphia.com. Second child of faith-healing couple dies after no medical care. By Dan Stamm, NBCPhiladelphia.com.
A faith-healing couple serving probation for the death of their 2-year-old son is in trouble once again after a second child died.
The 8-month-old son of Herbert and Catherine Schaible, fundamentalist Christians who believe in the power of prayer ahead of modern medicine, died last week, according to Philadelphia Police spokeswoman Jillian Russell. The couple have been serving a 10-year probation sentence in the 2009 death of 2-year-old Kent Schaible. At a hearing Monday, Philadelphia Judge Benjamin Lerner said the Schaibles violated the most important condition of their probation: to seek medical care for their remaining children.
Authorities have yet to file criminal charges in the death of the child last week, after he suffered with diarrhea and breathing problems for days. But charges could be filed once authorities pinpoint how the boy died. An official cause of death is pending an autopsy, according to police.The child was taken to a funeral home by an as yet unknown individual and the undertaker alerted police, Russell said.
In 2010, a jury convicted the Schaibles, who have seven other children, of involuntary manslaughter and child endangerment in Kent's death from pneumonia. The Schaibles were sentenced to probation over prison time. As part of their sentence, the Schaibles were required to arrange medical examinations for each of their children, to immediately consult with a doctor when a child became sick and to follow the doctor’s treatment recommendations. During their trial, the Schaibles' lawyers said the parents were targeted because their fundamentalist Christian beliefs espouse faith healing.
Pennsylvania law says parents have a legal duty to protect their children's health and safety, although the law does not specify if or when medical care must be sought. Prosecutors said Kent could have been saved with basic medical care -- probably even over-the-counter medication -- but the couple relied on prayer instead. Defense attorneys argued that their clients did not know how sick the child was, and their beliefs played no role in their decision.When asked for comment outside his Rhawnhurst home Friday, Herbert Schaible, 44, told NBC10’s Chris Cato, “We don’t want to talk.”
(d) Another 2013 Govt sentencing case:
http://www.denverpost.comTop of Form
Subscribe via RSS http://photos.denverpost.com/wp-content/themes/mcenter/images/mcenter.png
Photos: Amish community disrupted by hate crime convictions
Posted Apr 10, 2013
By
·
BERGHOLZ, Ohio (AP) – The last of 16 Amish from a community in rural eastern Ohio will be taken to federal prison on Friday convicted of hate crimes for hair- and beard-cutting attacks against fellow Amish. “We have to keep our spirits up for the children’s sake,” said Martha Mullet, whose husband, Sam Mullet Sr, was accused of orchestrating the attacks and was sentenced to 15 years, the longest term of the 16 defendants in the case. Mullet said that she believes the government is trying to split up the community.
Amish, who shun many facets of modern life, are deeply religious and believe the Bible instructs women to let their hair grow long and men to grow beards and stop shaving once they marry, which means cutting the hair would be shameful and offensive. The defendants don’t deny the hair-cuttings but contend they stemmed from family disputes that should have been handled internally.
All 16 defendants have appealed, arguing that the group’s conviction, sentencing and imprisonment in separate facilities as far away as Louisiana, Minnesota and Connecticut violates their constitutional rights and amounts to cruel and unusual punishment, an argument prosecutors reject.>>>>>>
2. Even as the Amish people wanted to do their thing, they don’t attack other people to force them to adopt the Amish religious and simple ways. In your example with the Amish, how come you did not tell us that there was no instance of an Amish attack during your fly-over in the US? You can’t be selective on these things; and that underscored the point, that things are more REAL in the US than a fly-over guest or student will appreciate to him/her an expert on American ways! The fact and reality of the situation in the US is that: if what you want to do constitutes a threat to the health and lives of other people around you, you will face IMMEDIATE expungement or put-away!
3. You cannot do whatever you like in a bona fide society with laws! Everything you do MUST comply with the laws, irrespective of how you feel about it. If not, you will feel the weight of the law!!
Boko Haram has been harassing, killing and destroying for a while; in an attempt to curtail the excesses, there was a clash between sect members and security agents; there were casualties on both sides and unfortunately one of the leaders died. The sect exploded into a killing spree, destruction and intimidations, attacking Emirs, Sultans, mosques, churches, schools, innocent people, Govt property and personnel, citizens and foreigners allover Northern Nigeria. Strangely, some of us are here blaming Govt’s agents for attempting to quell the terror, instead of wondering why Govt has not taken more effective and serious steps to filter these nuisances from society. One really wonders how petty politicking can blind some of us to the point of adopting these warped, unprogressive and nonsensical thoughts about our society. We are REALLY strange people in deed!
As we have said previously, it is IMPORTANT for us to realize that the consideration of “due process” is secondary to the “immediate response” to any mindless terror threat to lives and public properties, such as what we have with Boko Haram; BH members are not fighting any legitimate cause that meet the internationally accepted fundamental human rights, as well defined by the United Nations or embraced by any decent, civilized modern society! Their ancestral land is not occupied; they have not been denied the rights to worship as they choose or like; they are not being forced to do anything! Rather, this religious sect wants to impose its doctrine on the rest of society; and the members use killing of innocent people, destructions and intimidations as their tactics; What else constitutes a threat to public safety and senseless menace to a society that is in a desperate need for a peaceful polity to grow its democracy, build her functional institutions and advance scientifically and technologically? Where is the room for “due process” in a situation where citizens are being terrorized, innocent lives are being mindlessly terminated and property destructions range in the billions? There is no serious society that discusses “due process” under such a climate. Besides, after securing lives and properties of citizens from the terror [by whatever means necessary], and the perpetrators are apprehended, the “due process” will commence appropriately!
In the apt words of US President Harry Truman: “Unusual problems require uncommon solutions”!
Take care. JUI
From: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rotimi Fashakin
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 3:29 AM
To: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com; <stev...@yahoo.com>; Ola Kassim
Cc: Raay...@yahoogroups.com; 'Yan Arewa'; usaafric...@googlegroups.com; talk...@yahoogroups.com; rafsanj...@gmail.com; Joan Oviawe
Subject: Re: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
Dr Joe Igietseme,
Methinks that the same perspicacious treatment you give to work-related issues -which has ennobled you into the status of a renowned Bacteriologist- is exactly what you are expected to do with this issue!
Boko Haram started as a socio-religious group that was a kind of puritanical group. Initially, they were going after muslims clerics, who in their opinion were not pure muslims. We read of early morning raids in mosques at that time. They forbade themselves from seeking western education. What did the police do? They attacked them
Is there a parallel in the US?
Of course, the Amish people of Lancaster, PA. They started as a puritanical religious group in Europe and later became a socio-religious group (in the US) that loathes modern comfort of life. They do not inter-marry, ride automobiles, use electricity and seek formal education beyond 8th grade. The US government did not attack them but rather, instituted a law suit. In 1972, the US supreme Court forbade anyone from interfering with the decision of the group as part of their fundamental rights. They have found a way to integrate the Amish people. In 1985, I ate in an Amish restaurant. If you go to Lancaster, PA today, do not be surprised that the grocery shop you are in may be owned by Amish people.
As we speak, they still ride their horse-driven carts; their pumps are powered by the wind. Nobody has disturbed them. That is the way of civility.
I just wonder what we probably missed as a Nation.
Last year, we came to US for my son's MBA graduation and he opted for a Naija restaurant in Queens, NY. I saw as part of their menu, suya Obalende. Of course, that gave me some nostalgic feeling. I wondered aloud what would have happened if the yorubas in lagos had shown immense hostility to the Hausa/fulani settling in Obalende many years ago, would there ever be anything called 'suya obalende'?
Let the truth be told: we (as a Nation) goofed in our initial handling of the Boko -haram issue. Now it has snowballed into a big calamity. We are now hearing that they desire an Islamic state. But that was not the initial objective of the group. Could they have been infiltrated by terror organisations of this world, in the course of their struggle with the Nigerian authority? May be, Yes!
How do we move forward?
If Boko haram insurgents are killed in their shoot-out with JTF soldiers, that is OK. But it is abominable for JTF soldiers to go from house to house, searching for Boko-haram and killing every unarmed youth in sight!
It is equally reprehensible for the Nigerian security forces to kill extra-judicially any captured Boko-haram operative, just like their leader (Mohammed Yussuf). The way of civility is to try them in our Courts!
It is my opinion that the police men that killed mohammed Yussuf and the other youths (which Al-Jazeera showed us) must be tried for murder. If found guilty, they should be killed at the very spot where they did the first killing.
I have told this story before but, because of its relevance to this case, would be willing to tell it again.
The late General MB Haladu told me (whilst being the Commandant of NASI, jaji where I did my youth service). He commanded a small unit during the civil war. After the war, two soldiers from his unit killed two Nigerians of Igbo extraction. When asked, the murderous two-some averred that the victims were Biafrans! So Gen Haladu set up a court-martial which found them guilty. The Kano-born General then ordered the firing squad be set up at the very spot where the killing was done. That was it. Justice had been done.
I was in a prayer meeting in Akure (organised by Gen Gowon) on June 6, 1998(two days before Abacha's death). Gowon told us that we should thank God for the nation that the people they fought did not resort to guerrilla warfare instead of surrendering. That was very instructive!
Many of the commentaries I have been reading -even from respected academics- are not deep at all. We do not show any understanding of the issues.
Just my two-kobo contribution!
Rotimi.
Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN
From: "Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCEZID)" <jigie...@cdc.gov>
Sender: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 00:22:57 +0000
To: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com<NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>; <stev...@yahoo.com><stev...@yahoo.com>; Ola Kassim<olaka...@aol.com>
ReplyTo: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Raay...@yahoogroups.com<Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; 'Yan Arewa'<yana...@yahoogroups.com>; usaafric...@googlegroups.com<usaafric...@googlegroups.com>; talk...@yahoogroups.com<talk...@yahoogroups.com>; rafsanj...@gmail.com<rafsanj...@gmail.com>
Subject: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
Stevek,
Don’t you think that most people will consider it the appropriate Rule of Law enforcement to use adequate Police or military action to stop terrorists and protect the majority of citizens from mindless individual or group's terrors? I think some of us should go find out how these issues have been handled in the most developed/ civilized societies that we all look up to for global best practices in democratic practices, civil liberties and public safety.
Go find out what happened to the Dravidian sect in Waco TX, when it became necessary to hunt down the terror snipers in DC, Boston bombers etc in USA! It is IMPORTANT for us realize that the consideration of “due process” is secondary to the “immediate response” to any mindless terror threat to lives and public properties, such as what we have with Boko Haram; BH members are not fighting any legitimate cause that meet the human rights defined by the United Nations or embraced by any decent, civilized modern society! Their ancestral land is not occupied; they have not been denied the rights to worship as they choose or like; they are not being forced to do anything! Rather, this religious sect wants to impose its doctrine on the rest of society; and the members use killing of innocent people, destructions and intimidations as their tactics; What else constitutes a threat to public safety, human rights and senseless menace to a society in a desperate need for a peaceful polity to grow its democracy, build her functional institutions and advance scientifically and technologically? Where is the room for “due process” in a situation where citizens are being terrorized, innocent lives are being mindlessly terminated and property destructions range in the billions? There is no serious society that discusses “due process” under such a climate.
In the apt words of US President Harry Truman: “Unusual problems require uncommon solutions”! Take care. JUI
----------------------------------------- Original Message -------------------------------------------------------------
From: Stevek
Date: 4/30/2013 1:46 PM
To: OlaKa...@aol.com;NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com;naijain...@googlegroups.com;usaafric...@googlegroups.com;rafsanj...@gmail.com;
Cc: yana...@yahoogroups.com;Raay...@yahoogroups.com;niger...@yahoogroups.com;nigerian...@yahoogroups.com;
Subject: Re: NigerianID | Re: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
That's what I thought. That NIDO thing again.
You guys amaze me.
Both of you are staying put in your respective foreign stations because of the benefit of the Rule of Law and Due Process. But you don't care if this man that has been murdered is really guilty of anything or not.
Yet, you Olola, want homosexuals to be married without hinder because they have a right to. But this guy that is murderd without due process should because it makes you feel better that you are doing something against Boko Haram.
You are as logical and consistent as a square peg in a round hole!
due process of law
n. a fundamental principle of fairness in all legal matters, both civil and criminal, especially in the courts. All legal procedures set by statute and court practice, including notice of rights, must be followed for each individual so that no prejudicial or unequal treatment will result. While somewhat indefinite, the term can be gauged by its aim to safeguard both private and public rights against unfairness. The universal guarantee of due process is in the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which provides "No person shall…be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law," and is applied to all states by the 14th Amendment. From this basic principle flows many legal decisions determining both procedural and substantive rights
I hope your turn doesn't come one day as you visit Nigeria!
As Africans, we have to learn to think or perish.
Stevek
Washington, DC, USA
A society of supine lambs breeds erect wolves. - Stevek
A wise man proportions his beliefs to the evidence - David Hume
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "OlaKa...@aol.com" <OlaKa...@aol.com>
To: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com; naijain...@googlegroups.com; usaafric...@googlegroups.com; rafsanj...@gmail.com
Cc: yana...@yahoogroups.com; Raay...@yahoogroups.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; nigerian...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 1:23 PM
Subject: NigerianID | Re: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
JUI:
I share your sentiments and frustrations--some Nigerians can indeed be emotional wretches as you referred to them.
When dog bites man no one complains but when man bites dog some start yelling massacre.
Are the lives of the Boko Haram terrorists worth more than those of their victims?.
How many innocent police officers and soldiers have been killed by the Boko Haram terrorists
in the past few years--without all the hue and cry from the holier than thou crowd?
How many hundreds of civilians have lost their lives and limbs at the hands of the
Boko Haram terrorists
The Boko Haram terrorists are like a cancerous sore in the nation. Serious ailments
need serious solutions!
As long as the federal authorities are taking the necessary care to avoid collateral civilian casualties
the government forces should be using whatever arsenals they have in their possession to eradicate
these miscreants.
Capturing the terrorists alive so they could be tried remains an option only in situations where the
federal forces would not risk their lives to ensure their capture.
Why are some people crying on behalf of terrorists--when they would rather die so they
could get their 72 virgins in heaven?
Why are some Nigerians playing politics with this serious matter?
Bye,
Ola
---- Original Message ----From: Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCEZID) (CDC/OID/NCEZID) <jigie...@cdc.gov>To: naijaintellects@googlegroups com <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>; rafsanjanikano <rafsanj...@gmail.com>Cc: 'Yan Arewa' <yana...@yahoogroups.com>; Raayiriga <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; 'NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com' <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Tue, Apr 30, 2013 10:51 amSubject: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
Nigerians are just emotional wretches, a confused bunch of people who like to eat their cake and still hold it in their hands! Let them go see how laws are enforced around the world and they will realized that the baby gloves with which the Govt and people are handling Boko Haram is mainly responsible for why the situation is till not under control.
A bunch of mindless, rag-tag religionists cannot hold a nation to ransom and render citizens’ live in a standstill; NO WAY!!! Take care. JUI
From: naijain...@googlegroups.com [mailto:naijain...@googlegroups.com?] On Behalf Of E. Obi
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 9:24 AM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com; naijaintellects@googlegroups com; rafsanj...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Naijaintellects] BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
After the Boston marathon bombings. ,the huge city of Boston was locked down and law enforcement agencies NOT the army meticulously searched for and apprehended the suspect without massacaring Bostonians.
EUO
Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
From: Auwal Musa <rafsanj...@gmail.com>;
To: <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>; <naijain...@googlegroups.com>;
Subject: [Naijaintellects] BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
Sent: Tue, Apr 30, 2013 1:16:45 PM
--
BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
Civil Society Legislative Advocacy Centre (CISLAC) is worried about the continued violent violation of human rights by the security agencies on innocent Nigerians. The failure of this government to sincerely handle the insecurity and protect Nigerians from violence orchestrated by merchants of violence through Bombings, Armed robbery, kidnapping, communal clashes, political violence, ethno-religious violence and rape, helps to escalate impunity in Nigeria. This is in spite of the huge resources allocated for security sector in Nigeria which runs into trillions of naira, but yet Nigerians face more security challenges.
The recent development of mass massacre in Baga Town of Borno State is very unfortunate and in particular the alleged blocking access of relief materials to the affected victims days after the mayhem is inhumane and amount to siege. Relief workers are yet to be allowed access to Baga town days after the start of the military operations that left at least 200 people dead and so many homes burnt down. The residents said troops fired indiscriminately and set fires at homes in an apparent retaliation over the death of an officer.
CISLAC is of the opinion that there should be a better mutual understanding of cultures and systems between humanitarian aid workers and troops, so as to develop mutual respect. To do this, it would be useful to put in place a programme of strategic and operational discussions at all levels. National Emergency Management Agency (NEMA) and Red Cross have raised alarm over its inability to administer humanitarian response to victims which is a total contradiction to the United Nation Protocol on options for responding to such crises. Even in war situations, relief materials are distributed to alleviate the sufferings of the people. It is considered very unprofessional not to accept the opportunity to play a more dynamic role on how to coordinate and respond to emergencies which was created by it (the Army) in the first place.
CISLAC considers this a coercive military intervention, even though a military component of some kind has become increasingly necessary in most crises situation; it must not eclipse and violate rights of civilians. Major humanitarian actors from both within and outside Borno, and its aim at facilitating inter-agency analysis and decision making in response to humanitarian emergencies should not be an issue for negotiation considering that access to food is part of civilian protection.
It must be understood that continuous refusal to provide access humanitarian officials to the victims would further create an outbreak of diseases, hunger and deaths of women and children. We consider this siege an impunity which is unacceptable and a contradiction to the rules of engagement in such situation. We condemn this and call for investigation into the Baga saga.
CISLAC calls on relevant authorities to refrain from the current faceoff in Baga, not as an argument about the ‘right to intervene’ but about the ‘responsibility to protect’ and put in place a proper coordination of Humanitarian Affairs in the community to safeguard the lives of people.
CISLAC calls on the authorities to investigate these Army and Police officers involved in this heinous act and ensure that they are not allowed participating in any peacekeeping operations forthwith. These sorts of violations are parts of the image challenges that the nation had suffered over the years from the international community when some Nigerian Army officers were sent for international peace mission.
CISLAC therefore calls on the National Assembly to investigate the trillions of Naira allocated to the executives in the name of security votes, from all indications, insecurity is proving to be a lucrative business which financial appropriation is unaccounted for. This menace has gone on too long and needs to seriously be challenged.
Signed by
Auwal Musa Rafsanjani
Executive Director
CISLAC
Civil Society Legislative Advocacy Centre (CISLAC) is a non-governmental, non-profit legislative advocacy, lobbying, information sharing and research organization. (CISLAC) works towards bridging the gap between the legislature and the electorate; by enhancing lobbying strategies; engagement of bills before their passage into law; manpower development for lawmakers, legislative aides, politicians and the civil society, as well as civic education on the tenets of democracy and Human Rights.
CISLAC has UN ECOSOC consultative status
AUWAL IBRAHIM MUSA (RAFSANJANI)EXECUTIVE DIRECTORCivil Society Legislative Advocacy Centre (CISLAC)Address: No.7 Mahathma Gandhi Street, Off Shehu Shagari Way, By Bullet Garden, Area 11 Junction,Asokoro, Abuja - NigeriaWebsite: http://www.cislacnigeria.net/
Email: in...@cislacnigeria.net, cis...@cislac.kabissa.org,
cislacnatio...@yahoo.com, rafsanj...@yahoo.comGSM: +234-8033844646, 08052370333, 07034118266
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "naijaintellects" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to naijaintellec...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to naijain...@googlegroups.com.Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/naijaintellects?hl=en.For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "naijaintellects" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to naijaintellec...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to naijain...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/naijaintellects?hl=en.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (6)
Recent Activity:
New Members 5
Visit Your Group
MARKETPLACE
Yahoo! Groups
Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use • Send us Feedback
.
__,_._,___
Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCEZID) via yahoogroups.com
3:18 PM (22 minutes ago)
to NIgerianWorldF., Raayiriga, Yan, talkhard, naija, nigerianid
Images are not displayed. Display images below - Always display images from jb...@cdc.gov
How do you discuss “due process” with a Suicide terrorist or bomber? Is it not when an offender allows him/herself to be arrested that you see the need for due process? What type of “due process” could have been applied to curtail the Japanese Kamikazes [on suicide bombing of US facilities] outside of shooting them down? JUI thinks Stevek et al are just joking and stretching this issue for academic discussion sake! Take care. JUI
From: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gregg
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 8:47 AM
To: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [NIgerianWorldForum] Re: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
__,_._,___
Oluwatoyin Adepoju <ovad...@gmail.com>
3:33 PM (7 minutes ago)
to Raayiriga, NIgerianWorldF., stevek941, Ola, Yan, talkhard, rafsanjanikano, Joan, naija, Rotimi
Fantastic contribution from JUI!
We thank God our people are struggling to defend the integrity of our country against shallow and dangerous ideas.
thanks
toyin
On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 2:54 PM, Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCEZID) <jb...@cdc.gov> wrote:
“”””””Boko Haram started as a socio-religious group that was a kind of puritanical group. Initially, they were going after muslims clerics, who in their opinion were not pure muslims. We read of early morning raids in mosques at that time. They forbade themselves from seeking western education. What did the police do? They attacked them
Is there a parallel in the US?
Of course, the Amish people of Lancaster, PA. They started as a puritanical religious group in Europe and later became a socio-religious group (in the US) that loathes modern comfort of life. They do not inter-marry, ride automobiles, use electricity and seek formal education beyond 8th grade. The US government did not attack them but rather, instituted a law suit. In 1972, the US supreme Court forbade anyone from interfering with the decision of the group as part of their fundamental rights. They have found a way to integrate the Amish people. In 1985, I ate in an Amish restaurant. If you go to Lancaster, PA today, do not be surprised that the grocery shop you are in may be owned by Amish people. ”””””Unquote Chief [Engr] Rotimi Fashakin
Chief,
As some of us have observed over the years, the greatest danger Nigeria and several developing societies face and causing the apparent thread-milling in societal development is the tendency of a “fly-over” or “lay-over” experience abroad to qualify some people as “experienced” sojourners and experts in the ways of the developed societies. You just displayed that appalling practice with your Amish example excerpted from your statement below. According to your example, your occasional trips to the US [such as the possibility of getting a degree here or coming for your Son’s MBA graduation and flying back to Nigeria] have now made you a US Expertise; but you have essentially mis-spoke and misled anybody who would mistakenly use the baseless information you forged out of imagined and assumed picture of how things work here! And it is a habit that most of you should QUIT! It is not helping Nigeria or other developing societies because the fact is that things are more REAL than apparent to your superficial observations and experiences in the US.
Now, listen intently to JUI who has spend almost 30 years in the US [schooled here; on a stable professional career here; has a family here; has resided in 4 States; and has visited over 40 of the 50 States of the Union!]:
1. Even as the Amish people wanted to do their thing, they have to obey the laws of the land! If they don’t, they will face instant prosecution! See the following historical encounters between the Amish Community and the US Govts over the years:
(a) The Amish do not usually educate their children past the eighth grade, believing that the basic knowledge offered up to that point is sufficient to prepare one for the Amish lifestyle. Almost no Amish go to high school and college. In many communities, the Amish operate their own schools, which are typically one-room schoolhouses with teachers (young unmarried women) from the Amish community. On May 19, 1972, Jonas Yoder and Wallace Miller of the Old Order Amish, and Adin Yutzy of the Conservative Amish Mennonite Church, were each fined $5 for refusing to send their children, aged 14 and 15, to high school. In Wisconsin v. Yoder, the Wisconsin Supreme Court overturned the conviction,[49] and the U.S. Supreme Court affirmed this, finding the benefits of universal education do not justify a violation of the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment.[50]
(b) Like other citizens, Amish pay sales and property taxes. But even though their buggies, bicyclists, and pedestrians use public highways, the Amish need not pay either motor vehicle registration fees or motor fuel taxes.[51] Under their beliefs and traditions, generally the Amish do not agree with the idea of Social Security benefits and have a religious objection to insurance.[52] On this basis, the United States Internal Revenue Service agreed in 1961 that they did not need to pay Social Security-related taxes. In 1965, this policy was codified into law.[53] Self-employed individuals in certain sects do not pay into, nor receive benefits from, United States Social Security. This exemption applies to members of a religious group that is conscientiously opposed to accepting benefits of any private or public insurance, provides a reasonable level of living for its dependent members and has existed continuously since December 31, 1950.[54] The U.S. Supreme Court in 1982 clarified that Amish employers are not exempt, but only those Amish individuals who are self-employed.[55](c
(c) http://nbcphiladelphia.com. Second child of faith-healing couple dies after no medical care. By Dan Stamm, NBCPhiladelphia.com.
A faith-healing couple serving probation for the death of their 2-year-old son is in trouble once again after a second child died.
The 8-month-old son of Herbert and Catherine Schaible, fundamentalist Christians who believe in the power of prayer ahead of modern medicine, died last week, according to Philadelphia Police spokeswoman Jillian Russell. The couple have been serving a 10-year probation sentence in the 2009 death of 2-year-old Kent Schaible. At a hearing Monday, Philadelphia Judge Benjamin Lerner said the Schaibles violated the most important condition of their probation: to seek medical care for their remaining children.
Authorities have yet to file criminal charges in the death of the child last week, after he suffered with diarrhea and breathing problems for days. But charges could be filed once authorities pinpoint how the boy died. An official cause of death is pending an autopsy, according to police.The child was taken to a funeral home by an as yet unknown individual and the undertaker alerted police, Russell said.
In 2010, a jury convicted the Schaibles, who have seven other children, of involuntary manslaughter and child endangerment in Kent's death from pneumonia. The Schaibles were sentenced to probation over prison time. As part of their sentence, the Schaibles were required to arrange medical examinations for each of their children, to immediately consult with a doctor when a child became sick and to follow the doctor’s treatment recommendations. During their trial, the Schaibles' lawyers said the parents were targeted because their fundamentalist Christian beliefs espouse faith healing.
Pennsylvania law says parents have a legal duty to protect their children's health and safety, although the law does not specify if or when medical care must be sought. Prosecutors said Kent could have been saved with basic medical care -- probably even over-the-counter medication -- but the couple relied on prayer instead. Defense attorneys argued that their clients did not know how sick the child was, and their beliefs played no role in their decision.When asked for comment outside his Rhawnhurst home Friday, Herbert Schaible, 44, told NBC10’s Chris Cato, “We don’t want to talk.”
(d) Another 2013 Govt sentencing case:
http://www.denverpost.comTop of Form
Subscribe via RSS http://photos.denverpost.com/wp-content/themes/mcenter/images/mcenter.png
Photos: Amish community disrupted by hate crime convictions
Posted Apr 10, 2013
By
·
BERGHOLZ, Ohio (AP) – The last of 16 Amish from a community in rural eastern Ohio will be taken to federal prison on Friday convicted of hate crimes for hair- and beard-cutting attacks against fellow Amish. “We have to keep our spirits up for the children’s sake,” said Martha Mullet, whose husband, Sam Mullet Sr, was accused of orchestrating the attacks and was sentenced to 15 years, the longest term of the 16 defendants in the case. Mullet said that she believes the government is trying to split up the community.
Amish, who shun many facets of modern life, are deeply religious and believe the Bible instructs women to let their hair grow long and men to grow beards and stop shaving once they marry, which means cutting the hair would be shameful and offensive. The defendants don’t deny the hair-cuttings but contend they stemmed from family disputes that should have been handled internally.
All 16 defendants have appealed, arguing that the group’s conviction, sentencing and imprisonment in separate facilities as far away as Louisiana, Minnesota and Connecticut violates their constitutional rights and amounts to cruel and unusual punishment, an argument prosecutors reject.>>>>>>
2. Even as the Amish people wanted to do their thing, they don’t attack other people to force them to adopt the Amish religious and simple ways. In your example with the Amish, how come you did not tell us that there was no instance of an Amish attack during your fly-over in the US? You can’t be selective on these things; and that underscored the point, that things are more REAL in the US than a fly-over guest or student will appreciate to him/her an expert on American ways! The fact and reality of the situation in the US is that: if what you want to do constitutes a threat to the health and lives of other people around you, you will face IMMEDIATE expungement or put-away!
3. You cannot do whatever you like in a bona fide society with laws! Everything you do MUST comply with the laws, irrespective of how you feel about it. If not, you will feel the weight of the law!!
Boko Haram has been harassing, killing and destroying for a while; in an attempt to curtail the excesses, there was a clash between sect members and security agents; there were casualties on both sides and unfortunately one of the leaders died. The sect exploded into a killing spree, destruction and intimidations, attacking Emirs, Sultans, mosques, churches, schools, innocent people, Govt property and personnel, citizens and foreigners allover Northern Nigeria. Strangely, some of us are here blaming Govt’s agents for attempting to quell the terror, instead of wondering why Govt has not taken more effective and serious steps to filter these nuisances from society. One really wonders how petty politicking can blind some of us to the point of adopting these warped, unprogressive and nonsensical thoughts about our society. We are REALLY strange people in deed!
As we have said previously, it is IMPORTANT for us to realize that the consideration of “due process” is secondary to the “immediate response” to any mindless terror threat to lives and public properties, such as what we have with Boko Haram; BH members are not fighting any legitimate cause that meet the internationally accepted fundamental human rights, as well defined by the United Nations or embraced by any decent, civilized modern society! Their ancestral land is not occupied; they have not been denied the rights to worship as they choose or like; they are not being forced to do anything! Rather, this religious sect wants to impose its doctrine on the rest of society; and the members use killing of innocent people, destructions and intimidations as their tactics; What else constitutes a threat to public safety and senseless menace to a society that is in a desperate need for a peaceful polity to grow its democracy, build her functional institutions and advance scientifically and technologically? Where is the room for “due process” in a situation where citizens are being terrorized, innocent lives are being mindlessly terminated and property destructions range in the billions? There is no serious society that discusses “due process” under such a climate. Besides, after securing lives and properties of citizens from the terror [by whatever means necessary], and the perpetrators are apprehended, the “due process” will commence appropriately!
In the apt words of US President Harry Truman: “Unusual problems require uncommon solutions”!
Take care. JUI
From: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rotimi Fashakin
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 3:29 AM
To: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com; <stev...@yahoo.com>; Ola Kassim
Cc: Raay...@yahoogroups.com; 'Yan Arewa'; usaafric...@googlegroups.com; talk...@yahoogroups.com; rafsanj...@gmail.com; Joan Oviawe
Subject: Re: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
Dr Joe Igietseme,
Methinks that the same perspicacious treatment you give to work-related issues -which has ennobled you into the status of a renowned Bacteriologist- is exactly what you are expected to do with this issue!
Boko Haram started as a socio-religious group that was a kind of puritanical group. Initially, they were going after muslims clerics, who in their opinion were not pure muslims. We read of early morning raids in mosques at that time. They forbade themselves from seeking western education. What did the police do? They attacked them
Is there a parallel in the US?
Of course, the Amish people of Lancaster, PA. They started as a puritanical religious group in Europe and later became a socio-religious group (in the US) that loathes modern comfort of life. They do not inter-marry, ride automobiles, use electricity and seek formal education beyond 8th grade. The US government did not attack them but rather, instituted a law suit. In 1972, the US supreme Court forbade anyone from interfering with the decision of the group as part of their fundamental rights. They have found a way to integrate the Amish people. In 1985, I ate in an Amish restaurant. If you go to Lancaster, PA today, do not be surprised that the grocery shop you are in may be owned by Amish people.
As we speak, they still ride their horse-driven carts; their pumps are powered by the wind. Nobody has disturbed them. That is the way of civility.
I just wonder what we probably missed as a Nation.
Last year, we came to US for my son's MBA graduation and he opted for a Naija restaurant in Queens, NY. I saw as part of their menu, suya Obalende. Of course, that gave me some nostalgic feeling. I wondered aloud what would have happened if the yorubas in lagos had shown immense hostility to the Hausa/fulani settling in Obalende many years ago, would there ever be anything called 'suya obalende'?
Let the truth be told: we (as a Nation) goofed in our initial handling of the Boko -haram issue. Now it has snowballed into a big calamity. We are now hearing that they desire an Islamic state. But that was not the initial objective of the group. Could they have been infiltrated by terror organisations of this world, in the course of their struggle with the Nigerian authority? May be, Yes!
How do we move forward?
If Boko haram insurgents are killed in their shoot-out with JTF soldiers, that is OK. But it is abominable for JTF soldiers to go from house to house, searching for Boko-haram and killing every unarmed youth in sight!
It is equally reprehensible for the Nigerian security forces to kill extra-judicially any captured Boko-haram operative, just like their leader (Mohammed Yussuf). The way of civility is to try them in our Courts!
It is my opinion that the police men that killed mohammed Yussuf and the other youths (which Al-Jazeera showed us) must be tried for murder. If found guilty, they should be killed at the very spot where they did the first killing.
I have told this story before but, because of its relevance to this case, would be willing to tell it again.
The late General MB Haladu told me (whilst being the Commandant of NASI, jaji where I did my youth service). He commanded a small unit during the civil war. After the war, two soldiers from his unit killed two Nigerians of Igbo extraction. When asked, the murderous two-some averred that the victims were Biafrans! So Gen Haladu set up a court-martial which found them guilty. The Kano-born General then ordered the firing squad be set up at the very spot where the killing was done. That was it. Justice had been done.
I was in a prayer meeting in Akure (organised by Gen Gowon) on June 6, 1998(two days before Abacha's death). Gowon told us that we should thank God for the nation that the people they fought did not resort to guerrilla warfare instead of surrendering. That was very instructive!
Many of the commentaries I have been reading -even from respected academics- are not deep at all. We do not show any understanding of the issues.
Just my two-kobo contribution!
Rotimi.
Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN
From: "Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCEZID)" <jigie...@cdc.gov>
Sender: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 00:22:57 +0000
To: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com<NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>; <stev...@yahoo.com><stev...@yahoo.com>; Ola Kassim<olaka...@aol.com>
ReplyTo: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Raay...@yahoogroups.com<Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; 'Yan Arewa'<yana...@yahoogroups.com>; usaafric...@googlegroups.com<usaafric...@googlegroups.com>; talk...@yahoogroups.com<talk...@yahoogroups.com>; rafsanj...@gmail.com<rafsanj...@gmail.com>
Subject: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
Stevek,
Don’t you think that most people will consider it the appropriate Rule of Law enforcement to use adequate Police or military action to stop terrorists and protect the majority of citizens from mindless individual or group's terrors? I think some of us should go find out how these issues have been handled in the most developed/ civilized societies that we all look up to for global best practices in democratic practices, civil liberties and public safety.
Go find out what happened to the Dravidian sect in Waco TX, when it became necessary to hunt down the terror snipers in DC, Boston bombers etc in USA! It is IMPORTANT for us realize that the consideration of “due process” is secondary to the “immediate response” to any mindless terror threat to lives and public properties, such as what we have with Boko Haram; BH members are not fighting any legitimate cause that meet the human rights defined by the United Nations or embraced by any decent, civilized modern society! Their ancestral land is not occupied; they have not been denied the rights to worship as they choose or like; they are not being forced to do anything! Rather, this religious sect wants to impose its doctrine on the rest of society; and the members use killing of innocent people, destructions and intimidations as their tactics; What else constitutes a threat to public safety, human rights and senseless menace to a society in a desperate need for a peaceful polity to grow its democracy, build her functional institutions and advance scientifically and technologically? Where is the room for “due process” in a situation where citizens are being terrorized, innocent lives are being mindlessly terminated and property destructions range in the billions? There is no serious society that discusses “due process” under such a climate.
In the apt words of US President Harry Truman: “Unusual problems require uncommon solutions”! Take care. JUI
----------------------------------------- Original Message -------------------------------------------------------------
From: Stevek
Date: 4/30/2013 1:46 PM
To: OlaKa...@aol.com;NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com;naijain...@googlegroups.com;usaafric...@googlegroups.com;rafsanj...@gmail.com;
Cc: yana...@yahoogroups.com;Raay...@yahoogroups.com;niger...@yahoogroups.com;nigerian...@yahoogroups.com;
Subject: Re: NigerianID | Re: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
That's what I thought. That NIDO thing again.
You guys amaze me.
Both of you are staying put in your respective foreign stations because of the benefit of the Rule of Law and Due Process. But you don't care if this man that has been murdered is really guilty of anything or not.
Yet, you Olola, want homosexuals to be married without hinder because they have a right to. But this guy that is murderd without due process should because it makes you feel better that you are doing something against Boko Haram.
You are as logical and consistent as a square peg in a round hole!
due process of law
n. a fundamental principle of fairness in all legal matters, both civil and criminal, especially in the courts. All legal procedures set by statute and court practice, including notice of rights, must be followed for each individual so that no prejudicial or unequal treatment will result. While somewhat indefinite, the term can be gauged by its aim to safeguard both private and public rights against unfairness. The universal guarantee of due process is in the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which provides "No person shall…be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law," and is applied to all states by the 14th Amendment. From this basic principle flows many legal decisions determining both procedural and substantive rights
I hope your turn doesn't come one day as you visit Nigeria!
As Africans, we have to learn to think or perish.
Stevek
Washington, DC, USA
A society of supine lambs breeds erect wolves. - Stevek
A wise man proportions his beliefs to the evidence - David Hume
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "OlaKa...@aol.com" <OlaKa...@aol.com>
To: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com; naijain...@googlegroups.com; usaafric...@googlegroups.com; rafsanj...@gmail.com
Cc: yana...@yahoogroups.com; Raay...@yahoogroups.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; nigerian...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 1:23 PM
Subject: NigerianID | Re: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
JUI:
I share your sentiments and frustrations--some Nigerians can indeed be emotional wretches as you referred to them.
When dog bites man no one complains but when man bites dog some start yelling massacre.
Are the lives of the Boko Haram terrorists worth more than those of their victims?.
How many innocent police officers and soldiers have been killed by the Boko Haram terrorists
in the past few years--without all the hue and cry from the holier than thou crowd?
How many hundreds of civilians have lost their lives and limbs at the hands of the
Boko Haram terrorists
The Boko Haram terrorists are like a cancerous sore in the nation. Serious ailments
need serious solutions!
As long as the federal authorities are taking the necessary care to avoid collateral civilian casualties
the government forces should be using whatever arsenals they have in their possession to eradicate
these miscreants.
Capturing the terrorists alive so they could be tried remains an option only in situations where the
federal forces would not risk their lives to ensure their capture.
Why are some people crying on behalf of terrorists--when they would rather die so they
could get their 72 virgins in heaven?
Why are some Nigerians playing politics with this serious matter?
Bye,
Ola
---- Original Message ----From: Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCEZID) (CDC/OID/NCEZID) <jigie...@cdc.gov>To: naijaintellects@googlegroups com <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>; rafsanjanikano <rafsanj...@gmail.com>Cc: 'Yan Arewa' <yana...@yahoogroups.com>; Raayiriga <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; 'NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com' <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Tue, Apr 30, 2013 10:51 amSubject: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
Nigerians are just emotional wretches, a confused bunch of people who like to eat their cake and still hold it in their hands! Let them go see how laws are enforced around the world and they will realized that the baby gloves with which the Govt and people are handling Boko Haram is mainly responsible for why the situation is till not under control.
A bunch of mindless, rag-tag religionists cannot hold a nation to ransom and render citizens’ live in a standstill; NO WAY!!! Take care. JUI
From: naijain...@googlegroups.com [mailto:naijain...@googlegroups.com?] On Behalf Of E. Obi
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 9:24 AM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com; naijaintellects@googlegroups com; rafsanj...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Naijaintellects] BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
After the Boston marathon bombings. ,the huge city of Boston was locked down and law enforcement agencies NOT the army meticulously searched for and apprehended the suspect without massacaring Bostonians.
EUO
Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
From: Auwal Musa <rafsanj...@gmail.com>;
To: <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>; <naijain...@googlegroups.com>;
Subject: [Naijaintellects] BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
Sent: Tue, Apr 30, 2013 1:16:45 PM
--
BAGA MASSACRE: CISLAC CONDEMNS MILITARY BRUTALITY ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS
Civil Society Legislative Advocacy Centre (CISLAC) is worried about the continued violent violation of human rights by the security agencies on innocent Nigerians. The failure of this government to sincerely handle the insecurity and protect Nigerians from violence orchestrated by merchants of violence through Bombings, Armed robbery, kidnapping, communal clashes, political violence, ethno-religious violence and rape, helps to escalate impunity in Nigeria. This is in spite of the huge resources allocated for security sector in Nigeria which runs into trillions of naira, but yet Nigerians face more security challenges.
The recent development of mass massacre in Baga Town of Borno State is very unfortunate and in particular the alleged blocking access of relief materials to the affected victims days after the mayhem is inhumane and amount to siege. Relief workers are yet to be allowed access to Baga town days after the start of the military operations that left at least 200 people dead and so many homes burnt down. The residents said troops fired indiscriminately and set fires at homes in an apparent retaliation over the death of an officer.
CISLAC is of the opinion that there should be a better mutual understanding of cultures and systems between humanitarian aid workers and troops, so as to develop mutual respect. To do this, it would be useful to put in place a programme of strategic and operational discussions at all levels. National Emergency Management Agency (NEMA) and Red Cross have raised alarm over its inability to administer humanitarian response to victims which is a total contradiction to the United Nation Protocol on options for responding to such crises. Even in war situations, relief materials are distributed to alleviate the sufferings of the people. It is considered very unprofessional not to accept the opportunity to play a more dynamic role on how to coordinate and respond to emergencies which was created by it (the Army) in the first place.
CISLAC considers this a coercive military intervention, even though a military component of some kind has become increasingly necessary in most crises situation; it must not eclipse and violate rights of civilians. Major humanitarian actors from both within and outside Borno, and its aim at facilitating inter-agency analysis and decision making in response to humanitarian emergencies should not be an issue for negotiation considering that access to food is part of civilian protection.
It must be understood that continuous refusal to provide access humanitarian officials to the victims would further create an outbreak of diseases, hunger and deaths of women and children. We consider this siege an impunity which is unacceptable and a contradiction to the rules of engagement in such situation. We condemn this and call for investigation into the Baga saga.
CISLAC calls on relevant authorities to refrain from the current faceoff in Baga, not as an argument about the ‘right to intervene’ but about the ‘responsibility to protect’ and put in place a proper coordination of Humanitarian Affairs in the community to safeguard the lives of people.
CISLAC calls on the authorities to investigate these Army and Police officers involved in this heinous act and ensure that they are not allowed participating in any peacekeeping operations forthwith. These sorts of violations are parts of the image challenges that the nation had suffered over the years from the international community when some Nigerian Army officers were sent for international peace mission.
CISLAC therefore calls on the National Assembly to investigate the trillions of Naira allocated to the executives in the name of security votes, from all indications, insecurity is proving to be a lucrative business which financial appropriation is unaccounted for. This menace has gone on too long and needs to seriously be challenged.
Signed by
Auwal Musa Rafsanjani
Executive Director
CISLAC
Civil Society Legislative Advocacy Centre (CISLAC) is a non-governmental, non-profit legislative advocacy, lobbying, information sharing and research organization. (CISLAC) works towards bridging the gap between the legislature and the electorate; by enhancing lobbying strategies; engagement of bills before their passage into law; manpower development for lawmakers, legislative aides, politicians and the civil society, as well as civic education on the tenets of democracy and Human Rights.
CISLAC has UN ECOSOC consultative status
AUWAL IBRAHIM MUSA (RAFSANJANI)EXECUTIVE DIRECTORCivil Society Legislative Advocacy Centre (CISLAC)Address: No.7 Mahathma Gandhi Street, Off Shehu Shagari Way, By Bullet Garden, Area 11 Junction,Asokoro, Abuja - NigeriaWebsite: http://www.cislacnigeria.net/
Email: in...@cislacnigeria.net, cis...@cislac.kabissa.org,
cislacnatio...@yahoo.com, rafsanj...@yahoo.comGSM: +234-8033844646, 08052370333, 07034118266
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "naijaintellects" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to naijaintellec...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to naijain...@googlegroups.com.Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/naijaintellects?hl=en.For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "naijaintellects" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to naijaintellec...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to naijain...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/naijaintellects?hl=en.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
__,_._,___
Oluwatoyin Adepoju <ovad...@gmail.com>
3:34 PM (6 minutes ago)
to NIgerianWorldF.
Gregg sums it up
toyin
Oluwatoyin Adepoju <ovad...@gmail.com>
3:35 PM (5 minutes ago)
to talkhard, NIgerianWorldF., stevek941, Ola, Raayiriga, Yan, usaafricadialo., rafsanjanikano, Joan
Excellent from Ukpong Ekam.
thanks
toyin
Stevek
3:30 PM (27 minutes ago)
to NIgerianWorldF., stevek941, Ola, Raayiriga, Yan, usaafricadialo., talkhard, rafsanjanikano, Joan, naija, Rotimi
Joe,
You are beating about the bush and making mountains out of molehills. In other words, you are obfuscating.
A suspected perpertrator is shot dead while in handcuffs and in overwhelming police custody.
We say it shouldn't have happened in view of the doctrine of 'innocent until proven guilty by a competent court of law' and that due process, a universal standard in civilized societies, was circumvented. You and other NIDO types disagree because of the attributes of Boko Haram; an argument that is irrelevant in this case.
That's is the issue.
And who says you have to live in the US for 30 years before you know the customs here? I never lived in Rome but I, probably, know more about the Roman Empire than an uneducated Roman. Just as you just showed some knowledge of the Amish even though you, probably, have never lived among them. And what Rotimi wrote about the Amish people is true and did not require the long obsfuscation you delved in if you, truly, abhorr misleading readers here to make your strange point that it is ok for the police to shoot a suspect because of possible affiliations to a group you don't like.
Stick to the issue if you are still claiming, as Fubara did not, that a human being can be shot while in handcuffs in overwhelming police cusody instead of taking human being to trial as they do in Atalanta, GA.
As Africans, we have to learn to think or perish.
Stevek
Washington, DC, USA
A society of supine lambs breeds erect wolves. - Stevek
A wise man proportions his beliefs to the evidence - David Hume
Stevek
3:37 PM (19 minutes ago)
to NIgerianWorldF., Raayiriga, Yan, talkhard, naija, nigerianid
Joe,
You need to stop this.
Nobody is saying that Boko Haram insurgents should be invited for questioning over ITA while they are left uninteferred with in spreading terror and mayhem.
The argument is simple. No one who is a suspect lawbreaker should be shot by the Police while in handcuffs and under overwhelming Police custody.
The way you keep going of in a tanget and ferverishly beating the bush on this is strange?
Am I missing something?
As Africans, we have to learn to think or perish.
Stevek
Washington, DC, USA
A society of supine lambs breeds erect wolves. - Stevek
A wise man proportions his beliefs to the evidence - David Hume
dAme jOo via yahoogroups.com
3:54 PM (4 minutes ago)
to edo-nationality, Rotimi, nigerianworldf., Nigerian
Images are not displayed. Display images below - Always display images from thepeopl...@gmail.com
You see, in Nigeria, there is a tendency to ignore silent and voiceless victims! So, the plight of thousands of innocent Nigerians massacred and disabled by the BH terrorists does not matter in the scramble to provide a justification for the mindless killing orgy and macabre jihadism of these blood-thirsty terrorists? I really don't know where Engr. Fashakin is going with his commentary.
Perhaps he should be reminded of WACO, Texas and what happened to the religious sect- the Branch Davidian during their standoff with U.S. law enforcement (I have cut and pasted a wikipedia entry about the sect below). He may also want to look-up the various separatist groups in the U.S. and how the American government watches them like a hawk round the clock, leaving no doubt that any act of insurgency will be met with the full weight and force at the disposal of the U.S. govt.
It's a crying shame that the Nigerian leadership is so weak that it has become en vogue to demand the trial of police officers who "murdered" Boko Haram insurgents while the same BH members who are killing countless of Nigerians are been touted for amnesty.
It bears reminding also that we are all potential victims of Boko Haram. For when the terrorists strike, they are not going to separate those who sympathize with them from those who condemn them.
Who is speaking for the victims here?
Saludos,
jOo
"The Waco siege(sometimes called the "Waco massacre"[4]) was a siege of a compound belonging to the religious group Branch Davidians by the United States federal and Texas state law enforcement and military between February 28 and April 19, 1993.[5]
The Branch Davidians, a Christian sect led by David Koresh, lived at Mount Carmel Center ranch in the community of Elk, Texas,[6][7] nine miles (14 kilometers) east-northeast of Waco. The group was suspected of weapons violations and a search and arrest warrant was obtained.
The incident began when the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) attempted to raid the ranch. An intense gun battle erupted, resulting in the deaths of four agents and six Branch Davidians. Upon the ATF's failure to raid the compound, a siege was initiated by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), the standoff lasting 51 days. Eventually, the FBI launched an assault and initiated a tear gas attack in an attempt to force the Branch Davidians out. During the attack, a fire engulfed Mount Carmel Center and 76 men, women, and children,[8][9]including David Koresh, died.
Controversy ensued over the origin of the fire; a government investigation concluded in 2000 that sect members themselves had started the fire at the time of the attack. Timothy McVeigh cited the Waco incident as a primary motivation for the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege
Also posted at
Scribd (PDF)
Nigerian Development (Blogger)