TOO MUCH ADO ABOUT CERTIFICATE

[Anthony Akinola]

  TOO MUCH ADO ABOUT CERTIFICATE

Voluminous constitutions are symptomatic of the distrust a people have about themselves. It is assumed that a people cannot be reasonable and patriotic,every rule governing their behaviour must be spelt out in black and white.This would seem to be the case in Nigeria,with its cumbersome constitution, where every rule of democratic governance  is assembled, albeit in confusing and contradictory wordings.

One knows of a nation that is governed without a written constitution. There is not a document that is called the British Constitution, democratic governance derives its legitimacy from customs and tradition. Yet, Britain is one of the most orderly geographical entities in the world-a nation that once superintended governance in many overseas colonies.

Even in the United States of America, the nation with the first written constitution , not everything is packed into the constitution. The American constitution is a very slim document, readable and easy to comprehend even by those with minimal education. There is no reference to political party in their constitution, and neither is their a requirement that the President must acquire a certain level of education. It is enough that a candidate for that position has attained the age of 35,and he or she is a natural born citizen of America, or a resident within the USA for a minimum of 14 years.

Much as the letters of any constitution must be respected, one honestly thinks that the requirement of education for President should no longer be generating controversy in a modern society. It should by now be taken for granted that whoever shall be President of Nigeria would be educated, otherwise the collective intelligence of the citizenry is insulted.Such a requirement should not be in the constitution.

.

Even then, it is the democratic right of the people to decide who their leader is. Paper qualification may not necessarily mean that one is politically-intelligent. Abraham Lincoln, one of the greatest presidents of the USA, is said to have had only about a year of formal schooling of any kind. His successor, Andrew Johnson, is said to have had no formal schooling of any kind.

Lest one gets me wrong, one is not saying that education is not important and neither is one holding brief for any politician. What one is trying to assert is that there are things we must now take for granted in the 21st century. Even in our local communities, contemporary traditional rulers are well-educated and sophisticated individuals. Gone is the era when the traditional ruler was that kola-chewing individual, very eloquent at reciting incantations.

Anthony Akinola,

Oxford, UK.

[Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju]

another pro-buhari massage?

perhaps all to support a man who has never bothered to gain a self or institutionally administered education? whose crass provinciality is evident in his administration and what he has to say to the public?

Buhari represents the negativities of Nigeria's Muslim North, a slice of that population that has no business in Nigerian govt.

have you ever reasoned that it is only from the Muslim North that anyone will dare present himself for the Presidency with little  certifiable education?

Nobody from the South would do that. It will not be accepted by either Southerners or Northerners.

Why is it so?

Partly bcs the Northern Muslim candidates can trust on the unwavering support offered by religio-ethnic bigotry of their kind of ethno-religious compact,  the kind that leads to the massacre of innocents bcs their candidate has  lost an election ( pro-Buhari massacres 2011) ,  as different from the more cosmopolitan Islam of the SW.  That ethno-religious clannishness is the primary strength of Northern Muslim politics in opposition to the South.

Those in the South, however, will not demonstrate such intense clannishness  but some are ready to blind themselves in support of such a clannish culture, such as through trying to sell to the public a story that you cant sell to your own child of why you do need not bother with significant education.

After all, without the piece of paper called a degree, one might not be politically  intelligent enough to get elected as Nigerian President as those without that sheet of paper have succeeded in doing.

You are not going to ask your son or daughter to emulate US Presidents of centuries ago in a time when  their country  was just beginning to develop a definite identity, where many values and the significance of many institution were still fluid.

You are not going to advice your child to ignore the fact that for perhaps a century now the standard education for US Presidents is an Ivy League education, an unwritten rule that, almost without exception, any serious aspirant to the highest levels of US govt is well aware of and does their best to abide by.

You have chosen to ignore the fact that the largely uneducated Buhari made sure he educated his daughter in a law degree in the UK. He did not give to his daughter the advice you are now giving to Nigerians, most likely in his support.

Why must some insist on low standards for Nigeria?

Standards they will not wish for themselves or their loved ones.

Invoking nations that have developed a superb systems of government in comparison with a country that is significantly akin to a jungle, where the govt itself is a terrorist enabler, where even the law does not do very much to restrain the powerful or the desperate.

well done sir.

toyin

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[Okechukwu Ukaga]

Anthony:

Lincoln was not as uneducated as suggested/implied here. Although he had very limited educational opportunities growing up, he managed to study law, took and passed the bar exam and practiced law, among other things.  

OU

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[Anthony Akinola]

Lincoln, as we all know, was one of the most brilliant presidents in American history. The emphasis here is on FORMAL education. Were he to have been a Nigerian of today, in the context of our constitution, there would be those taking issue with his inability to present primary or secondary school certificate. .I believe we have got to a stage in history when the ordinary voter should be able to distinguish between those who are thoroughly educated to lead and those who merely present certificates in order to justify eligibility. The truth of the matter is that  primary or secondary school certificate hardly qualifies one to engage in rigorous governmental activities, especially at the presidential.level. Since we are not going to ask prospective candidates to be Professors or Senior Advocates of Nigeria, we might as well leave the judgement of assessing candidate suitability to the voting public.

Many thanks for your comment,especially not reducing what is ordinarily an academic discussion to a pro-Buhari or anti-Atiku pettiness.

Akinola

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 9:43 AM Okechukwu Ukaga <ukag...@umn.edu> wrote:

Anthony:

Lincoln was not as uneducated as suggested/implied here. Although he had very limited educational opportunities growing up, he managed to study law, took and passed the bar exam and practiced law, among other things.  

OU

On Oct 30, 2018 7:38 AM, "Anthony Akinola" <anthony....@gmail.com> wrote:

  TOO MUCH ADO ABOUT CERTIFICATE

Voluminous constitutions are symptomatic of the distrust a people have about themselves. It is assumed that a people cannot be reasonable and patriotic,every rule governing their behaviour must be spelt out in black and white.This would seem to be the case in Nigeria,with its cumbersome constitution, where every rule of democratic governance  is assembled, albeit in confusing and contradictory wordings.

One knows of a nation that is governed without a written constitution. There is not a document that is called the British Constitution, democratic governance derives its legitimacy from customs and tradition. Yet, Britain is one of the most orderly geographical entities in the world-a nation that once superintended governance in many overseas colonies.

Even in the United States of America, the nation with the first written constitution , not everything is packed into the constitution. The American constitution is a very slim document, readable and easy to comprehend even by those with minimal education. There is no reference to political party in their constitution, and neither is their a requirement that the President must acquire a certain level of education. It is enough that a candidate for that position has attained the age of 35,and he or she is a natural born citizen of America, or a resident within the USA for a minimum of 14 years.

Much as the letters of any constitution must be respected, one honestly thinks that the requirement of education for President should no longer be generating controversy in a modern society. It should by now be taken for granted that whoever shall be President of Nigeria would be educated, otherwise the collective intelligence of the citizenry is insulted.Such a requirement should not be in the constitution.

.

Even then, it is the democratic right of the people to decide who their leader is. Paper qualification may not necessarily mean that one is politically-intelligent. Abraham Lincoln, one of the greatest presidents of the USA, is said to have had only about a year of formal schooling of any kind. His successor, Andrew Johnson, is said to have had no formal schooling of any kind.

Lest one gets me wrong, one is not saying that education is not important and neither is one holding brief for any politician. What one is trying to assert is that there are things we must now take for granted in the 21st century. Even in our local communities, contemporary traditional rulers are well-educated and sophisticated individuals. Gone is the era when the traditional ruler was that kola-chewing individual, very eloquent at reciting incantations.

Anthony Akinola,

Oxford, UK.

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[OLAYINKA AGBETUYI]

Toyin:

People also burned and killed people in the SW in the days of the Wild Wild West and in the second republic in Nigeria.  So that attitude is not the exclusive preserve of the Muslim North as you imply.

What is the the educational status of Donald Trump and how has that aided his quest for power and his administrative style?  He is also a contemporary American President and does not belong to the age of Lincoln. Donald Trump said worse things than Buhari yet he was elected President.  Can you remove him? Do you still not desire to go and live among such people as elected Trump?  So what's different about Nigeria?

Beware of the bigotry that you accuse the whole of the Muslim North of.  You contradict yourself by saying Buhari educated his daughter to a Law degree.  That means he recognizes his daughter belongs to a different generation from his.  He is not to be judged as belonging to his daughters generation.

Good education is desirable as the writer admits (so this is just making a mountain of a mole hill.)  After all he admits even traditional rulers are nowadays well educated

(Prof) Jibrin (Ibrahim) is from the Muslim North.  He understands the value of education and is more highly educated formally than you are. Does that mean you can not intelligibly  interract with him? No!  Does that disqualify him from being seen as a member of the Muslim North? No!

Dies the Nigerian Constitution say the President must have university a degree?  If not Buhari did no wrong by offering himself for election without a degree until the Constitutiin is changed

Bigotry is in every locale North or South.  Beware you are not an unsuspecting perennial victim.

OAA

OAA

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------

From: Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin....@gmail.com>

Date: 31/10/2018 11:30 (GMT+00:00)

To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - TOO MUCH ADO ABOUT CERTIFICATE

This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (toyin....@gmail.com) Add cleanup rule | More info

another pro-buhari massage?

perhaps all to support a man who has never bothered to gain a self or institutionally administered education? whose crass provinciality is evident in his administration and what he has to say to the public?

Buhari represents the negativities of Nigeria's Muslim North, a slice of that population that has no business in Nigerian govt.

have you ever reasoned that it is only from the Muslim North that anyone will dare present himself for the Presidency with little  certifiable education?

Nobody from the South would do that. It will not be accepted by either Southerners or Northerners.

Why is it so?

Partly bcs the Northern Muslim candidates can trust on the unwavering support offered by religio-ethnic bigotry of their kind of ethno-religious compact,  the kind that leads to the massacre of innocents bcs their candidate has  lost an election ( pro-Buhari massacres 2011) ,  as different from the more cosmopolitan Islam of the SW.  That ethno-religious clannishness is the primary strength of Northern Muslim politics in opposition to the South.

Those in the South, however, will not demonstrate such intense clannishness  but some are ready to blind themselves in support of such a clannish culture, such as through trying to sell to the public a story that you cant sell to your own child of why you do need not bother with significant education.

After all, without the piece of paper called a degree, one might not be politically  intelligent enough to get elected as Nigerian President as those without that sheet of paper have succeeded in doing.

You are not going to ask your son or daughter to emulate US Presidents of centuries ago in a time when  their country  was just beginning to develop a definite identity, where many values and the significance of many institution were still fluid.

You are not going to advice your child to ignore the fact that for perhaps a century now the standard education for US Presidents is an Ivy League education, an unwritten rule that, almost without exception, any serious aspirant to the highest levels of US govt is well aware of and does their best to abide by.

You have chosen to ignore the fact that the largely uneducated Buhari made sure he educated his daughter in a law degree in the UK. He did not give to his daughter the advice you are now giving to Nigerians, most likely in his support.

Why must some insist on low standards for Nigeria?

Standards they will not wish for themselves or their loved ones.

Invoking nations that have developed a superb systems of government in comparison with a country that is significantly akin to a jungle, where the govt itself is a terrorist enabler, where even the law does not do very much to restrain the powerful or the desperate.

well done sir.

toyin

On Tue, 30 Oct 2018 at 13:38, Anthony Akinola <anthony....@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju]

People  are arguing for the no certificate option bcs they have a candidate who has little FORMAL education and little INFORMAL education.

Can you point to any definite evidence that your candidate has any significant education, FORMAL or INFORMAL?

Buhari's fellow ethocentrist, Trump, is not only a graduate of the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania he is not representative in his crudity and fascist ethnocentrism, of modern US Presidency. He represents the resurgence of ethnocentric forces similar to those that have empowered Buhari, but the mentalities he represents may be seen as ultimately on the losing side, seeing in Trump a last gasp for air. The ethnocentricities of much the Buhari base, however,  are deeply entrenched.  The huge injustices possible in Nigeria, topped by state sponsorship of internal terrorism, are, also, most likely, impossible or unsustainable in the US.

The differences in legal systems, political history and economy between Nigeria and the US are too great for these two nations to be adequately compared  without making careful qualifications.

The person who should be Nigerian President in the current equation is Osinbajo. His conduct of affairs whenever his   lean master is not around shows that.

But we have a cultured SAN as VP and a crude provincial  who does not belong anywhere beyond his native Daura local govt as President.

Why?

Bcs most of the ethno-religious kin of the provincial will support him no matter what-after all, those outside their fold belong to a different universe, fellow humans but not equatable  with their brethren.

Those kin gave support for the initial two years of their uprising to the murderous Boko Haram Islamic terrorism which sold itself as an uprising agst the govt of a Southern President, thereby enabling  the eventual  removal of that govt by the govt of the provincial. That same provincial made sure he milked this narrative for all it was worth, arguing agst the war on the terrorists as war agst his people and telling his people that the terrorists in their later stages, when the govt's war agst them was succeeding,  were the work of the govt.

The Muslim North is dominated by right wing mentalities, conservatives at best, ethno-religious supremacists at worst, while the South often deludes itself in political arrangements into thinking it is dealing with a partner who sees it as equal.

This imbalance enables the Muslim North to field a Buhari who has no qualifications, whether academic or otherwise to lead anything outside Daura, a man whose history is stained with the blood of those massacred in his name, people whose actions he allowed to continue unabated without a word from him, people building on a culture of recurrent anti-Southern pogroms reaching back to the 50s, a culture that does not exist anywhere else in Nigeria, while the South can never field a person with only a secondary school certificate, even which Buhari does not have, and yet the uninformed character can win bcs Southern politicians might have little interest at the national level beyond how to eat.

We are happy if the Daura man presents toilet paper as a certificate, some once declared. Yet, there exist many who do not need to be assessed by such abysmal criteria. Now efforts are being made to paper over the determined  lack of self improvement in the Daura character by making convoluted arguments involving Presidents from centuries ago in other lands.

In a world in which his elders have chosen to improve themselves after leaving office-Gowon and OBJ- he has based his political identity squarely in such ethnic consolidations as publicly identifying with the massive looter from his region, ex head of state Abacha and in identification with Boko Haram Islamic terrorism and lately, enabling right wing Fulani  terrorism.

Buhari's major opponent, Atiku Abubukar, is an even deadlier cocktail than Buhari. Both demagogue and sly creature, he created the ideological foundation that eventually brought Buhari to power in the name of the power-must-return-to-the North mantra aided by the momentum he helped generate by fueling Boko Haram with his threats of violent change agst Nigeria, enabling Buhari's eventual victory as the candidate most visible in the Muslim North and now enables him stand a chance of taking over from Buhari since the PDP zoned the Presidency to the North in the name of riding the wave of pro-Northern agitation. Atiku has now  joined the restructuring brigade, all in the chance to pretend to believe in a Nigeria that is a level playing ground for all citizens.

I belong to Nigerian centred social media groups dominated by Benin people, by Igbo people, by Yoruba people, by Hausas and Fulanis, along with social media groups dominated by no particular ethnicity, and have frequented the Facebook walls of a good no of figures influential on social media from these ethnicities and more. I also correlate my understanding of Nigerian history with observations I make on these fora.

I have concluded that except most from the SE, educated as they are  by the 60s crises and the civil war, Southern Nigerians, of various social and educational classes, are largely politically shortsighted  in relation to the national context  while Northern Nigeria, across various social and educational classes, is dominated by an ethno-religious supremacist mentality.

That is what I reference in terms of " the negativities of Nigeria's Muslim North" describing people demonstrating those mentalities as  "a slice of that population that has no business in Nigerian govt".

Some people prefer to see me as vituperating agst everyone from the Muslim North. The argument is about  dominant  influences and a dominant mentality, not about every person from the  region .

This culture, pervasive but not all encompassing, is  rooted, I expect, in the deeply ethnocentric and religiously insular Fulani Jihad, most likely the most fundamental shaping influence of the region, a puristic form of Islam established through colonizing a dominant population in the name of social and religious reforms, while placing the scions of the conquering ethnicity as the perpetual ruling class.

I wish re-education on this  if those are not the facts, however they are interpreted.

Its from only the Muslim North you will find articulate and at times, highly Western educated elite defending or justifying or excusing terrorism bcs it serves their clannish interests, threatening death on social media to those of their people who support a candidate not from their region, where a mob will beat up a person who states their candidate might not win the Presidency in 2019, the only region where a candidate will threaten antagonists bathing in blood if he does not win the Presidential election, another threaten the nation with violent change bcs he was not made candidate of a party likely to win the Presidency etc

In a country where people from one section can carry out a sustained terrorist  campaign of occupation, murdering thousands and occupying their lands, with the most prominent elite of  the same ethnicity publicly supporting them, and go free as the govt run by a person from the same ethnicity struggles to bend or create laws to assist their geographical spread as owners over the lands of others, what you have is not equality but a relationship btw two classes, a subordinate and a dominant class.

Can this inhumane power differential ever be eliminated?

The IPOB vision is the only certain way I can see out of this calamity - a referendum run by international honest and impartial brokers for reconstituting the leaving or remaining together of each ethnicity currently in Nigeria and the terms for that, but with Niger Delta oil to feed a bloatedly run   govt, who among the political class wants to miss a chance to ride the gravy train?

Meanwhile a good no of  Southerners, in dealing in political contexts with  the Muslim North,  pride themselves on the political blindness  which they call freedom from ethnic identification, while,  without recognizing the evident ethnocentricity dominant in the other, they  are uninformed, or recognizing and refusing to act on it, are  being self destructive or colluding in their subjugation.

toyin

[O O]

Some people seem to be throwing around labels at random. What, for instance, do you mean by “fascist ethnocentrism”?

[Ogedi Ohajekwe]

In the USA, the constitution was meant to capture the essence and guiding principles of the people it governs. In Britain it is the Monarch to some extent. Then (along the life on the entity) there have been laws which are derived from or are interpretations of situations based on how the original writers (founding members) of the constitution would have wanted it, if they they were faced with similar situations at current times.

The constitution of the United States took more than one year to craft and each word, phrase and sentence was deliberated on and some intentionally left open ended. In the next 200 years and more hopefully, interpretation of new ideas/problems will still be based on the original intent and also how other similar ideas had been interpreted (along their way) since the original constitution. 

Regarding the certificate, I believe that INEC is right ( if the courts are independent), sue and have the courts interpret what that is in the constitution. 

Mr Buhari has been president for about four years now and has been running for president for the past about 13 years, which is enough time for our law maker (among the best paid in the world) to straighten out the issues.

1) The issue of WAEC/GCE as a prerequisite is either in the constitution or not. If they find out that it is, but no longer necessary then remove it., if it is then apply the law. If it is equivocal then make it clear. 

Every other argument is mainly superfluous and based on emotions.

We should not have to have this same debate every four years about whether or not to obey a law of it is explicit.

2) The issue of affidavit: if I swear an affidavit that I am 36 (when in reality I am 30), and running for president, is the ‘system’ just allowed to ignore it, just because somehow I have the talent/training to do the job? 

When it is explicit in the law that one should be 35?

Does an affidavit replace a certificate or give you some time to locate your certificate from the appropriate quarters or prove by whatever means that you have it? 

Constitutions have nothing to do with trust but rather human nature (more like distrust and at the very least circumspection especially with political power).

Should we really encourage disobedience of written down laws?

Ogedi

[Cornelius Hamelberg]

Toyin Adepoju

What a dismal picture you paint! You are convinced and determined that national unity won't work, hence your sordid conclusion that summarises all the spurious accusations that you throw around, so carelessly! It seems that if you were to have your own way, the result your disastrous proposal should culminate in nothing less than the dissolution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria, the utter and complete destruction/ fragmentation of the sleeping giant into an untold number of independent splinter nations, self-contained ethnic enclaves (some of therm no bigger than the Gambia) and the amalgamation of some of the adjacent ethnic nations in your own Edo neck of the woods// the oil-rich Delta swamp, hopefully welding together friendly ethnicities, the Atlantic Ocean as your southern border, some of your neighbours to the East and to the West (and to the North?) to create new independent states on contiguous strips of what is currently sovereign Federal Nigerian territory, no doubt your battle cry “ Divided we fall!” Such eloquent pessimism:

“ The IPOB vision is the only certain way I can see out of this calamity - a referendum run by international honest and impartial brokers for reconstituting the leaving or remaining together of each ethnicity currently in Nigeria and the terms for that...”

All because your region 's got some oil

I understand that apart from the rabid Islamophobia that rules your heart and what you call a brain ( attributing it to Boko Haram,“The Fulani Herdsmen” and your so called “ Northern Hegemony” ) you also cynically espouse The Latest Decalogue

and of course,

“ strive

Officiously to keep alive”

I've said it before : This shalt not exaggerate : Here are a few of the atrocious  and in my view irresponsible accusations that you've made in this posting, your monomaniacal bearing false witness against the President Buhari of Nigeria which Chief Anthony A. Akinola has already dealt with , adequately. But you have to be careful with too dabbling in spirit world , there are some demons out there - maybe out to get you , which means that you could be in need of some exorcism deprogramming from Islamophobia and anti-Islamism, suspicion and lack of love and goodwill to our brothers and sisters from Northern Nigeria

I could take up each of your malicious accusations it's just that I don't have the time and you must know that I don't have to be an ultra Nigerian nationalist at heart to point them out to you in good faith and in the hope that you will repent and begin to amend your hatred: Your words (in italics): 

“Can you point to any definite evidence that your candidate has any significant education, FORMAL or INFORMAL?” - “a crude provincial who does not belong anywhere beyond his native Daura local govt as President.” - “a Buhari who has no qualifications, whether academic or otherwise to lead anything outside Daura,” - “We are happy if the Daura man presents toilet paper as a certificate, some once declared.” 

 If you are referring to President Muhammadu Buhari who attained to the rank of Major- General , then you must be surely out of your mind and you Toyin Adepoju ought to ashamed of yourself. Check this out : Muhammadu Buhari's qualifications

Raziel HaMalach

Fresh

[O O]

Some people seem addicted to throwing political labels at random. What, for instance, do you mean by “fascist ethnocentrism”?

On Oct 31, 2018, at 2:39 PM, Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin....@gmail.com> wrote:

[Emeagwali, Gloria (History)]

I  do agree with you, Cornelius. Adepoju is rather reckless in his constant vituperations.  I remember warning him against

his hell- bent determination to create a West African  Rwanda.

 Mr. Adepoju, certificates do not  make a person.

You can have dozens of degrees and certificates and be nothing but a mouthpiece and avatar  for colonialism or  neo-colonialism.

Get over this fetishism with certificates. In some circumstances a certificate  is nothing but a fragile piece of paper that

 could well be thrown in the garbage bin. I know of one "world leader"  with a big certificate - who killed at least a million people,

and the body count and collateral  damage  keep growing- years after. Another one with a big certificate is nothing but

a genocidal,  opportunistic,  neo-Nazi supremacist.

 Buhari got back into power because many thought that the old Buhari of the 1980s would

return to the driving seat. Time took its toll. His health problems are known by all. My criticism of Buhari is that  he should have

 gracefully resigned  on recognizing his current disability. He allowed his ego and whatever else  to get the better of him.

 In my view, what he has done so far is not impressive -  but that does not justify name - calling and  senseless

Islamophobic formulations.

 You call him an ethnocentrist. What are you? He is supposedly a crude provincial?

Why?  Is it his inability to fit your Eurocentric definition of cultural accomplishment, or what?

Apply your brilliance to more meaningful, productive and  humanistic  analyses, my friend.

Professor Gloria Emeagwali

Professor of History
History Department

www.agricahistory.net

gloriaemeagwali.com

     

---

From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Cornelius Hamelberg <cornelius...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2018 12:30 AM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series

[Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju]

Beyond efforts to  tackle Buhari's perennial questionable level of development in any capacity, have the issues I raised been addressed?

Have the historical facts I have stated about the abysmal Northern Muslim/Rest of Nigeria power differential I described been proven false?

Have my historical summations about the two faced coin known as Buhari/Atiku been discredited? Even if anyone wishes to challenge my interpretation of the facts, have the facts of the violent demagoguery of those two been proven untrue?

All emanating from the ridiculous standards created for Nigerians by a clique who made the bar of achievement low to serve their reliance on the gun, their only qualification for leadership.

toyin

[OLAYINKA AGBETUYI]

I have carefully read through your piece with your usual decidedly gadfly candour.

The reasons you state for rejecting Atiku tally with mine and that is why the third term gambit of OBJ till tomorrow remains problematic for me.  Except it was a desperate ploy to stop the automatic prospect of Atiku to the post of the President ( which he succeeded in the end in achieving through the compromise candidate of YarAdua what would a man of OBJs calibre and educational background be doing toying with a third term agenda.  Of course Atiku could then say their main disagreement was because he opposed the third term agenda; so it is a chicken and egg situation.  Suffice it to say OBJ knows Atiku only too well.

All the things you say of the Muslim North are understandable but politics colour everything in the end!  Politics is a game of self interests no matter your formal qualifications. It cuts both ways North/South.  The Constitution did not say the most highly educated MUST be President.  Just like you have legions of Ph d holders serving under Trump in the U.S. public educational  high school system so do you have them serving under Buhari.  

The fact Buhari was voted in by educated electorate both in the North and South shows in politics 2+2 is NOT always 4 as opposed to in academic circles; academic circles are always a tiny segment of the larger society even though they think in large part for the society.  The representative of the larger society saddled with power determines what to do with their thinking and how it serves the ' national interest.'

If change is to be secured in a civil manner it takes time and societal consensus in none other way than one in which we are engaged; only time will tell.  I know you want (as well asI do) for Nigeria to catch up very quickly with th West

It is because of the points you brought up that I personally would support a Presidential Council of major stake holders from diverse backgrounds  rather than  bestial Battle Royales of presidential prospects for just one slot of A President in which people expectedly threaten Sodom and Gomorrah if they don't win.

So we are both approaching the same problems through different mindset

OAA

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------

From: Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin....@gmail.com>

Date: 31/10/2018 20:44 (GMT+00:00)

To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - TOO MUCH ADO ABOUT CERTIFICATE

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[Cornelius Hamelberg]

Contd:

Brother Buhari was educated then and has not changed much since he granted this very educative and enlightening interview, published by the Achebe Foundation way back in 2005

Dear Toyin Adepoju, does my very educated and aware Brother Muhammadu Buhari not sound presidential and of leadership quality there?

We must admit that some of dear Adepoju's academic frustrations demand our empathy. For example, when sitting in the mystical darkness he elicits the support of his fellow academics, complaining bitterly, (like the bitter old Negro that he is), that in this day and age how could the Nigerian authorities and the powers that be expect him to do his homework by the light of the moon or by candlelight and hands akimbo he asks how does President Buhari expect a highly educated Nigerian like dear Adepoju to conduct the kind of important research that he dear Adepoju is committed to doing (his life's work) when as a result of zero electricity – NO CURRENT – he can't even get a simple internet connection. I almost wrote “he can't even get a simple internet erection) like the guys at Oxford and Cambridge, and the rest of the civilised world.

Baba Kadiri has consistently weighed in on Adepoju's problem by referring to some of the other highly educated or with a sound educational foundation, a well known phrase now, about “Professors of electricity who produce darkness only”. And you know that you have become famous when people start quoting your poetic phrases. (It's reported that Robert Burns was picnicking on the banks of the Thames with some friends when a boatload of fans was heard sailing merrily downstream, singing one of his songs. That's fame for you)

Nigeria should not worry too much about the lack of electricity. Be happy! China will come and solve that and other problems in a jiffy. They've got those kinds of solutions for “the Dark Continent” and for some of the Africans boasting about their educational pedigree. The Nigerian Africans don't have to complain any more, just give China some of your oil and they will do the job that has taken you centuries. There will come a time when we won't even remember that we lived in darkness only.

In one of his lectures Dr Yosef ben Jochannan comments on this fascination with certificates and degrees; he mentions a certain African the very first in his village to ever obtain a degree, returning to the village calling them illiterates and waving his degree parchment in their faces , whereupon he was asked by one of the elders someone like Pa Michael Imoudu or very much in tune with Wofa Akwassi's proverbial Baba Ijebu , who asked the boastful African, “Son, the first man to be given a degree, who gave it to him? Did the person who gave it to him also have a degree? “

Not to mention Moses, Jesus , Muhammad , the illiterate prophet or Muhammad the “the illiterate prophet “, so called – peace be upon them all – now some of them are beating their chests and boasting that they are more educated than their prophets....

At the same time there are those who would not even be satisfied with a hundred PhDs written like a long endless tail after their names, to bolster the missing self-confidence...

So much has been said about”Muhammad's Dead Poets Society” that some people forget that the Arabs of that era were among the world's greatest lovers of poetry and that that was one of the distinct challenges made in the Quran itself , the challenge to produce a single verse of like quality, the Quran as an unrivalled poetic miracle . Now there are some misinformed and mischievous people who believe that a Quranic education or an education and literacy in Arabic is no education at all, they look upon such educated and often learned people with utter disdain, as if they don't know how translations of Greek Philosophy entered Europe through translations into Arabic etc. etc.) . Should just like to add that Classical Persian Poetry is part of the Iranian cultural essence - to the extent that in Iran “the man in the street” quotes some Hafez quite naturally, that is no coincidence that Jila Mossaed (an Iranian poet who emigrated to Sweden in 1986 ) has been elected as a member of the Swedish Academy. That should make someone like Eric Hermelin happy!

Just when we're supposed to be advocating African unity, Adepoju is talking about the dissolution of Nigeria. When one takes a closer look at the Maps of Various States and their Local Governments in Nigeria and at the Ethnic map of Nigeria, and the major ethnic groups in Nigeria then Dear Adepoju's solution for the calamity is frightening ( I imagine that if he was as wise as the legendary King Solomon who married more than eight hundred wives - maybe as president of his wives facing rebellion from some of them, at some critical point Adepoju could have proposed the same solution to those of them who should no longer want to remain in his palace to satisfy his needs - whenever – as and when it pleases him : “a referendum run by international honest and impartial brokers for reconstituting the leaving or remaining together of each ethnicity currently in Nigeria and the terms for that...”

I know how some people feel : Brother Obinna told me recently ( here in Stockholm, just two months ago) that the Almighty deposited oil in his backyard and that the other Nigerians are all bloodsuckers, depending on “our oil” for their survival . Golda Meir also complained , “MOSES dragged us for 40 years through the desert to bring us to the one place in the Middle East where there was no oil” But we know that oil isn't everything . Just look at Israel today!

My avuncular advice to Toyin is still that he should be cautious about too much dabbling in the occult , because there's a lot of darkness out there , even if you want to call it magic - dark forces that easily control those they tempt to surrender to them. Boko Haram is obviously in their grip. In the grip of the Satanic forces of darkness, so please dear Adepoju please don't blame it on Islam

I don't intend to read this over.

Happy Weekend

[OLAYINKA AGBETUYI]

I have carefully read through your piece with your usual decidedly gadfly candour.

The reasons you state for rejecting Atiku tally with mine and that is why the third term gambit of OBJ till tomorrow remains problematic for me.  Except it was a desperate ploy to stop the automatic prospect of Atiku to the post of the President ( which he succeeded in the end in achieving through the compromise candidate of YarAdua what would a man of OBJs calibre and educational background be doing toying with a third term agenda.  Of course Atiku could then say their main disagreement was because he opposed the third term agenda; so it is a chicken and egg situation.  Suffice it to say OBJ knows Atiku only too well.

All the things you say of the Muslim North are understandable but politics colour everything in the end!  Politics is a game of self interests no matter your formal qualifications. It cuts both ways North/South.  The Constitution did not say the most highly educated MUST be President.  Just like you have legions of Ph d holders serving under Trump in the U.S. public educational  high school system so do you have them serving under Buhari.  

The fact Buhari was voted in by educated electorate both in the North and South shows in politics 2+2 is NOT always 4 as opposed to in academic circles; academic circles are always a tiny segment of the larger society even though they think in large part for the society.  The representative of the larger society saddled with power determines what to do with their thinking and how it serves the ' national interest.'

If change is to be secured in a civil manner it takes time and societal consensus in none other way than one in which we are engaged; only time will tell.  I know you want (as well asI do) for Nigeria to catch up very quickly with th West

It is because of the points you brought up that I personally would support a Presidential Council of major stake holders from diverse backgrounds  rather than  bestial Battle Royales of presidential prospects for just one slot of A President in which people expectedly threaten Sodom and Gomorrah if they don't win.

So we are both approaching the same problems through different mindset

OAA

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------

From: Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin....@gmail.com>

Date: 31/10/2018 20:44 (GMT+00:00)

To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - TOO MUCH ADO ABOUT CERTIFICATE

This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (toyin....@gmail.com) Add cleanup rule | More info

[Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju]

thanks for the effort, Olayinka. free of rancour.

toyin

[OLAYINKA AGBETUYI]

Toy in Adepoju seems to equate lack of conventional university education with lack of education.  My own argument is rather to the contrary.  Why go to enlist in the army to spend the nation's scarce resources to earn master's and doctorate degrees in the army as some do? Do such degrees teach how to handle a rifle?

OAA

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------

From: "Emeagwali, Gloria (History)" <emea...@ccsu.edu>

Date: 02/11/2018 03:58 (GMT+00:00)

To: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - TOO MUCH ADO ABOUT CERTIFICATE

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[Salimonu Kadiri]

Sometime last year or so, the minimum educational qualification required of a presidential candidate wishing to contest for election in Nigeria was discussed on this forum. It should not be a subject for discussion again, especially, when Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju was a participant in that discussion. However, I hereby draw your attention to the provision of Section 131 (d) of the 1999 Constitution of Nigeria (as amended) requiring any candidate for election to the office of President "to have been educated up to at least School Certificate or its equivalent." Take note that the section does not stipulate that a presidential candidate should possess 'at least School Certificate or its equivalent,' but 'educated to at least.' However, Part IV, article 318 (1) on the interpretation of section 131(d) on what the framers of the constitution had in mind states that the possession of any of the following credentials would suffice to contest in an election for the office of the President of Nigeria : (a) a Secondary School Certificate or its equivalent, or Grade II Teacher's Certificate, the City and Guilds Certificate; or (b) Education up to Secondary School Certificate level; or (c) Primary Six School Leaving Certificate or its equivalent and (i) Service in the public or private sector in the Federation in any capacity acceptable to the Independent National Electoral Commission for a minimum of ten years, and (ii) attendance at courses and training in such institutions as may be acceptable to the Independent National Electoral Commission for periods totalling up to a minimum of one year, and (iii) the ability to read, write, understand and communicate in the English language to the satisfaction of the Independent National Electoral Commission; and (d) any other qualification acceptable by the Independent National Electoral Commission. In view of the above provisions of the 1999 Constitution of Nigeria (as amended), a non-rascal intellectual would see that Primary Six School Leaving Certificate plus the ability to read, write, understand and communicate in English language is what is required of any citizen of Nigeria to contest for the office of President of Nigeria.

S. Kadiri 

---

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Skickat: den 1 november 2018 07:19
Till: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Ämne: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - TOO MUCH ADO ABOUT CERTIFICATE

 

[Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju]

We have dedicated our lives to further corroding a political space destroyed by the dominance of two evil characters.

One owns a university the funding for which comes from unknown sources, his wealth miraculously emerging after he left public office.

The other has dedicated his life to seeking public office, with little to show for the times when he fulfills his aims.

Both crooks, serving the same agenda, terrorist enablers and inspirers.

I have spent half of my life pursuing sophisticated education, but I declare even the lower levels of such an education is unnecessary  to lead a population far larger than the small classrooms I manage daily.

The economic trajectory of the thick necked one is unknown, but he is touted as able to turn round an economically despoiled nation.

My leader has difficulty making comments in public without embarrassing the nation, but I argue handling a rifle is all the education he needs.

When his kinsmen ran riot across the nation, dealing death in thousands and theft of others' lands, the mystery man of wealth pretended not to know that powerful members of his kin openly support the death dealing thieves, yet I am so sedated by fumes of hope,  concerns about what that duplicity portends for tomorrow do not reach my brain.

My constitution was written by people whose lack of understanding of a modern economy has led to the long running dilapidation of the nation, people who think that a low level education is enough to run a modern nation.

I hail these shortsighted people and quote ad nauseum their backward thought.

Why?

Because I am one of those who is needed to ensure perpetual backwardness.

There are many of us in Africa or working on Africa.

All kinds of buffoons are supported  by my kind.

Hence such characters thrive in my part of the world because no matter how inane a person who gains power may be, he will find someone to support him, people who will shout " George Weah of Liberia, though already a world famous football player, struggled and got a tertiary education in order to demonstrate himself adequately prepared in terms of the complexities of the modern internationally networked society to lead a modern nation, but we, in our greater wisdom, are happy with a leader who can produce toilet paper as his own evidence of self development, after all, is Weah's certificate and a piece of toilet paper not both pieces of paper, how is one different from the other?'

All kinds of crooks we support because we are used to hopes being destroyed, so even those whose actions make them likely to be the same people who armed terrorists whom their words inspired and those who are openly support terrorists, we welcome them both.

Why?

We are convinced we cannot get anything better.

Signed

Parliament of Praise Singers of Perpetual Backwardness

[Cornelius Hamelberg]

Dear Gloria in excelsis Emeagwali ,

You leave many of us Buharists worried when you suggest that Brother Buhari “should have gracefully resigned” either before or after seeking medical attention in the UK. even though he is now fit as a fiddle and back in the driver's seat again and ready to secure a second term as president of the Federal republic of Nigeria.

Based on the overriding logic of “the lesser of two evils”and when forced to chose between two evil the wisdom inherent in “ better the devil that you know, than the devil that you don't” - please don't be so easily seduced by Satan the accused, serpent who deceived your grandmother in the garden of Eden or by Adepoju the other accuser; let's not take it as vacuous rhetoric when Adepoju advises that

“Buhari's major opponent, Atiku Abubukar, is an even deadlier cocktail than Buhari.”

We have been warned by Adepoju and shouldn't give him the opportunity to gloat at a later date , weeping, “ I told you so, but you wouldn't listen!”

In my humble view, in this instance " there is no smoke without fire" means that we should listen to Brer Adepoju's warning and take the allegations of corruption that still haunt Alhaji Atiku Abubakar more seriously..

At the same time, opportunistic as he may sound just three months to the presidential elections, we ought not underestimate Alhaji Atiku Abubakar emphasising what Mo Ibrahim emphasises in today's BBC Focus on Africa and elsewhere : the empowerment of African youths

In today's programme we are told that The 2018 Mo Ibrahim Index on African Governance “ focuses on the last decade, i.e. between 2008 and 2017 and looks at corruption , the rule of law, Human Rights, job creation, education and health”, The BBC presenter Sophie Ikenye continues, “ but the index shows that despite strong GDP growth over the last ten years, Africa has failed to generate economic opportunities for its booming youth population “

BBC Focus on Africa : The 2018 Mo Ibrahim Index on African Governance

Here's what hardnose realist Mo Ibrahim said : https://s.amsu.ng/Q6fC0C3V7vWN ( this file will expire by 4^th November)

There has to be more of an emphasis on Investing in Africa's youths

Oh Africa – hallelujah!

[Salimonu Kadiri]

The British colonialist came and taught few Nigerians how to communicate in English language not because they loved those few Nigerians but because they needed people to tell the masses in their own mother tongues to produce what the colonialist needed. For playing their sorry roles in history, the British educated Nigerians in English language enjoyed better life. As Malcolm X observed in America, Nigeria too have had and still have her own House Niggers and Field Niggers till date. Having adopted English as the official language in Nigeria it, therefore, becomes a fundamental human right for all Nigerians to be educated in the imposed language of governance. To be educated in English language should not be a privilege or a lottery win but inalienable right of all Nigerians. However, Section 18(3) of the 1999 Constitution as amended states : Government should provide free, compulsory and universal Primary Education; free Secondary and University Education, and free Adult Literary programme, as and when practicable. Earlier in Section (2c) of the 1999 Constitution it is stated : The State (Nigeria) shall direct its policy towards ensuring - that suitable and adequate shelter, suitable and adequate food, reasonable national minimum living wage, old age care and pensions, unemployment and sick benefits and welfare of the disabled are provided for all citizens. If the spirit of the Constitution as cited above has been carried out, no one will be complaining in Nigeria today. 

The 1999 Nigerian Constitution has been in operation for roughly nineteen years, out of which PDP ruled for sixteen consecutive years and earned from crude oil export, as at the end of the year 2014, $862 billion (US). The Millenium Development Goal backed by the United Nations and signed by Nigeria in 2000 obliged Nigeria to provide free primary education for all Nigerian Children of school age by the end of year 2015. As we have seen, funds raised internally and externally to put all Nigerian children of school age at primary schools were stolen by the Poverty Developers' Party (PDP) that ruled Nigeria for 16 years out of which Southerners, Olusegun Obasanjo and Goodluck Jonathan ruled for 8 and 6 years respectively. Unlike intellectuals who substitute passion for vision, aggression for motivation and arrogance for wisdom, I do not see any relation/connection between the economic backwardness of Nigeria and the ethnic belonging of Nigerian rulers, past and present. In fact, in all Nigeria's Ministries, Departments and Agencies, there exist federal character of stealing intellectuals from all the tribes in Nigeria. Therefore, the solution to deprivation and usurpation of the fundamental human rights of the masses of Nigeria is not, and cannot be, restructuring or dissolution of the Nigerian State as it is being proffered by intellectual mythologists and sorcerers. For if Nigeria were to be dismembered into a village a country, lack of equal opportunity and inequality that exist in current Nigeria will just be transferred to the emerging countries ruled by the same set of people at the realm of political and economic power in today's Nigeria.

Any attempt to reply to the pack of tarradiddles in your post would amount to advancing the devil's own game. It takes emotional intelligence to love all human beings as one loves self. Therefore, the political ideology of Eugene Victor Debs, US labour leader, five times Socialist Presidential Candidate, 1900-1920,  should be ingrained in the brain of any intellectual who desires better living condition for Nigerians. Hear Debs, "Now my friends, I am opposed to the system of society in which we live today, not because I lack the natural equipment to do for myself but because I am not satisfied to make myself comfortable knowing that there are thousands of my fellow men who suffer for the barest necessities of life. We were taught under the old ethic that man's business on this earth was to look out for himself. That was the ethic of the jungle; the ethic of the beast. Take care of yourself, no matter what may become of your fellow man. Thousands of years ago the question was asked, ' Am I my brother's keeper?' That question has never been answered in a way that is satisfactory to civilized society. Yes, I am my brother's keeper. I am under a moral obligation to him that is inspired, not by any maudlin sentimentality but by the higher duty I owe myself. What would you think me if I were capable of seating myself at a table and gorging myself with food and saw about me the children of my fellow beings starving to death." My hashtag to Buhari is Take Back our Stolen National Assets and for anyone to compare Buhari to Atiku is like comparing a flamingo to a vulture.

S. Kadiri      

  

---

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Skickat: den 2 november 2018 23:11

[Cornelius Hamelberg]

Baba Kadiri,

I have saved this word document as " Baba Kadiri vs the pompous idiots"

As di Saro pipul dem say, tiday you don kill me wit laff ( the best medicine). Such choice expressions that hit their mark even in the dark . Indeed, as Yeats also put it,

“The best lack all conviction, while the worst

Are full of passionate intensity.”

and exactly as you say, some of our “intellectual mythologists and sorcerers.“ tend to “substitute passion for vision, aggression for motivation and arrogance for wisdom” ( and think that they are some 1,000 megawatt lightbulbs ). Don't mind them. The Brits taught them how to say “ Massa” and then they in turn  have been teaching the masses how to "massa". Are they agitating to introduce the death penalty for certain levels of financial crime ? NO ! They are  expending so much energy on other trifles , instead. The hullabaloo about a certificate is so ludicrous. They must be desperate. I'm sure that even the uncertified gardener must be laughing over there at Buckingham Palace.

But a little point of correction Sir : Malcolm talked about “House Negroes “and “Field Negroes” ; he didn't use the “N” word that The Last Poets were in the habit of using.

Just as you say, Professor House will forever be braying about Her Majesty's Mother Tongue and demanding that Brother Buhari produce some secondary school certification before welcoming Prince Charles and the Duchess of Cornwall in their own Mother tongue when they arrive in Nigeria on Tuesday or maybe, like Man Friday, volunteering to be the interpreter?

Instructive: Claire Foy ( the actress who plays the part of Queen Elisabeth II, talking about the Queen's speech ( in the Swedish TV programme Skavlan)

Anyway, you conclude with good advice which we ought to take to heart.

I am missing IBK and Funmi....

Black Bazar

Another teacher

Another language 

[Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju]

whats happening with IBK and Funmi Tofulowo?

we dont hear from them anymore.

toyin