Farooq, Funmi and Yona

[Toyin Falola]

Dear all:

Three members on this list provide the best in terms of service, far more than I can ever do:

Farooq on sensitivity to words, language, and governance. We cannot thank him enough. I cherish reading all his post and I actually send many of them to my students. I once challenged him in a private message to discuss how we can move forward as a nation as he has fresh ideas which break conventional boundaries and he is not a respecter of traditions that don’t work. 

Funmi on expanding our reading and creative horizons. We cannot thank her enough. I don’t know her, and I was touched as to how she reacted when she lost a friend and a relation, the professor killed by his driver.

Yona on resources to transform the continent. We are grateful.

The recent discussion on “outright” and “outrightly”, to me, contains outright distractions which may be outrightly unnecessary.  Stop.

Let us celebrate greatness when we see one: these three talented people are doing this generation a lot of service. Farooq is not driving down his ideas down anyone’s throat, just as prophets of change don’t accompany their words with AK47; Funmi is not calling anyone an illiterate for not reading her weekly recommended texts; and Yona is not asking anyone to use the resources.

Stay blessed, we all. I use “we all” in a deliberate version. Language is located in context and tradition: what is after 6 is more than 7. Someone sees 7, but others can see 13!  If you see 13, do not think the one who sees 7 is wrong.

TF

Toyin Falola

Department of History

The University of Texas at Austin

104 Inner Campus Drive

Austin, TX 78712-0220

USA

512 475 7224

512 475 7222 (fax)

http://sites.utexas.edu/yoruba-studies-review/

http://www.toyinfalola.com 

http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa  

http://groups.google.com/group/yorubaaffairs 

http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue   

[Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju]

wow

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com
Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Ayotunde Bewaji]

Dear Professor Falola,

Thanks for that intervention.

I woke up this morning thinking I should share the following with members from a senior friend, senior colleague and absolutely genuine human being:

Tunji Oyelana - Gudu Morning Sir (A Nigerian Retrospective)

Tunji Oyelana - Gudu Morning Sir (A Nigerian Retrospective)

My Narratives of Struggle (2012) also speak to some of the issues. More recently, my The Rule of Law and Governance in Indigenous Yoruba Society (2016) speaks to our being more Bishop of Canterbury than the Bishop in England.

Wish we spend such energies developing our of mother tongues.

Ire o.

Tunde.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

[Michael Afolayan]

So beautiful. So true. So right in the money. Nothing else to add than to say thank you to Professor Falola for putting the three round pegs in the round holes they belong. I also join him to doff my heart to the three models of literay perfection on our cyberspace who never crave for undue attention - Farooq, Funmi, and Yona: Keep it up . . .

Michael O. Afolayan

[Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju]

I have gone over the thread prof. Falola says contains distractions.

He also says the distractions or the thread should stop, i'm not sure which.

I am not able to understand why he sees the discussion that way.

Its a rich and polite discussion on the significance of language, English, in particular, to the dynamism of human life, particularly in an African context.

I dont see the discussion as demeaning Faroq's contributions, only challenging them, as all scholarly contributions should be challenged.

I did not read the thread until now although I have enjoiyed Faroq's views on English before.

Having gone through the thread and been stimulated by the scope of the discussion, I will go back to it for education and enjoyment bcs its rich in ideas and fun in its presentation.

thanks

toyin

On 27 October 2016 at 10:10, Toyin Falola <toyin...@austin.utexas.edu> wrote:

--

Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Olayinka Agbetuyi]

Thank you prof. The gavel has now descended on this debate: the acquisition and promotion of another language does not necessarily mean the hatred of yours. That was why I once recommended that in addition to other pre-requisites qualification for the federal legislature should include proficiency in the most widely spoken languages. That entails intimacy with the cultures that bred and service the languages: panacea for bigotry. You are less likely to be bigotted (or chauvinistic toward)  a culture you fully understand.

[Chidi Anthony Opara]

We now know the best three from the moderator, can we know the worst three, also from the moderator of course.

CAO.

[Mobolaji Aluko]

TF:

This "outrught (ly)* war is all my fault.

I used the word innocently recently without ever knowing  that it had been  explicutly banned as non-standard by English  Professor Farooq (Faruk?) on these boards.  One of my usual caterwauling trasducers - fancifully called Nebukadineze (Nebukadnezzer?) - then wrote that it was not an English word at all, only for me to show that it exists in several reputable online dictionaries  (I have not bought a physical dictionary  in forty yesrs), only for Farooq to write that only words in the physical  Oxford dictionary  count, particularly in polite  company  should be used by educated professorial l elites like himself and yours truly.

But before Farooq actually came into the war - I know I shouldn't  start a sentence  with "but*, but who is grading?  - I had teased him by once signing off as mimicking him.  He took the bait in Trumpian fashion - with his admirers and detractors then taking him on ever since with Trumpian- and Clintonian-support gusto.  He has in the process shown  himself as a true English Language (Sergeant) Major, no pun intended. 

May I confess that in my 1970 WAEC, I got an A1 in English Language and Physics, A2 in Literature, Mathematics  and Chemistry and A3 in French and Biology (with a torrid C4 in BK which leaked in my year and had to be re-taken). Emulating one weird friend also prepsring for WASCE, I read a dictionary  daily, seeking a new word (and its usage and pronunciation) each day.  So I was really torn between becoming a Kperogi or myself - but God saved me, and I became an Engineer! 

So let us move on.  I will continue to use words as I see fit.  If you don't  know the meaning of any word that I use, please ask, and I will tell you.  If it is not in the dictionary  of your choice, please add it to the next edition - and I would thereby have joined the zillion makers of the language.

And there you have it.

Bolaji Aluko

--

Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Kenneth Harrow]

As one who has worked for more than 50 yrs on learning French, and how to speak it, I can assure you the dictionary will not tell you how a word is used.

Really.

Not that it isn’t useful, but it fails because words exist, and have meaning, only in context with other words, and a dictionary can’t contain all those usages, nor accommodate all those changes.

Start w the word bad to see what I mean.

What does bad mean?

ken

 

Kenneth Harrow

Dept of English and Film Studies

Michigan State University

619 Red Cedar Rd

East Lansing, MI 48824

517-803-8839

har...@msu.edu

http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

[Farooq A. Kperogi]

Professor Aluko,

It is true that your post was the immediate trigger for my column, but I had written about this at least 7 years earlier, as the embedded link in my article shows. It wasn't your "bait" that inspired my intervention; it was both because I had written about it several times in the past and because I wanted to give people who might want to know the whole story of "outrightly" and other peculiar Nigerian English words and expressions the benefit of my knowledge.

 It may interest you to know that online dictionaries didn't have an entry for "outrightly" 7 years ago when I first wrote on the word. It was added courtesy of repeated searches for the word in search boxes of online dictionaries, apparently by non-native English speakers who habitually use it on analogy to the adverbial form of "right." Modern lexicography has incorporated web-based corpus linguistics in generating the lexical repertoire of languages. This is particularly true of English. So the fact that a word exists in (an online) dictionary actually doesn't say much. It merely means lexicographers have determined that the word is used often enough by so many people to deserve an entry. Dictionaries that incorporate usage notes will often go further and indicate if a word is nonstandard, regional, informal, formal, archaic, etc. "Ourightly" may well acquire sufficient social prestige to be countenanced in educated circles in the UK, the US and other countries where English is a native language, but it's not there yet.

You have lived in the US continuously for more than four decades, mostly in university environments. Ask any of your American friends or colleagues if they use "outrightly" as the adverb of "outright." Maybe we should ask Dr. Harrow, a professor of English and native speaker of the language, how the word sounds to him.

Now, let me be clear: the whole object of my intervention was not to insist that people abandon the use of the word; it is merely to let people know that it's nonstandard, that educated native speakers of the language don't use it. I neither have the power nor the inclination to police anybody's English usage. That's why the fulmination that I'm "ramming down" usage rules down people's throats is so pitifully silly.

I am paid by Daily Trust to write a weekly grammar column and a weekly general-interest column. That's why I write every week and share what I write on social media platforms. Hundreds of people ask me questions on grammar and usage every single day, most of which inform my weekly interventions. I was busy last week and decided to expand on my response to your post for my column.

If you intentionally use certain words and expressions that you know to be nonstandard, because you are addressing a specific audience that recognizes and habitually uses the nonstandard expressions, say Nigerian English speakers, that is perfectly legitimate. I do that all the time myself. For instance, I realize that most Nigerians say "blackmail" where native English speakers would say "smear." So I say "blackmail" (where I should say "smear") when I write for an exclusively Nigerian audience, especially on social media. But I know enough not to say that when my audience is global. I once called the capacity to navigate the contours of different linguistic environments in the same language "multi-dialectal linguistic competence." If you had defended your use of "outrightly" as an intentional usage directed at a Nigerian audience, I would have been one of your biggest cheerleaders. But you insisted that it was Standard English because some online dictionaries have an entry for it, which is "outrightly" (hahaha!) wrong.

This is important because knowing the difference between unique Nigerian English usage and Standard English usage can sometimes be life-changing for many people. If you have some time, read these articles I wrote two years ago on how Nigerian English can cause you to be mistaken for a 419 email scammer by native English speakers in the West: 

1. How Nigerian English May Cause You to To Mistaken for a Nigerian 419 Email Scammer (I)

2. How Nigerian English May Cause You to To Mistaken for a Nigerian 419 Email Scammer (II)

3. How Nigerian English May Cause You to To Mistaken for a Nigerian 419 Email Scammer (III)

See below the introduction I wrote to the series:

Have you ever sent an email to someone or some people in the United States, Canada, Britain or some other English-speaking Western country and didn’t get a response? Well, it is entirely possible that your email didn’t even make it to their inbox. If it did, it is also possible that certain uniquely Nigerian expressions in your email that were popularized in the West by Nigerian email scam artists triggered a scam alarm and caused you to be ignored. What are these “419 English” expressions that are like waving a red flag in front of a bull in the West?

First some context. A few days ago, a Nigerian Facebook friend of mine, who is also a professor here in the United States, put up a status update that inspired this column. He wrote: “Was I really wrong? Was the professor at the other end of the telephone line correct? She read my email and decided to withdraw her offer of introducing me to people in environmental education because my written English ‘is suspect.’ So I asked her to give me an example of something I expressed incorrectly. The first example was ‘I hope to read from you soon.’ She said the correct expression is ‘I hope to hear from you soon.’

 “I cleared my throat and informed her that it was not a face-to-face communication and that I thought the word to hear did not fit into a totally text-based communication. She did not sound impressed and till date never returned my calls. Should I change my communication style and let orality creep into my text? Does anyone know the rules about such things?”

 As I wrote in my contribution to his update, the American professor who called his English “suspect” and stopped communicating with him on the basis of his “suspect” English was most certainly rude and uncharitable. Unfortunately, however, ending email communication with "I hope to read from you soon" is not only unconventional among native English speakers; it's also one of the core phrases associated with 419 emails from Nigeria, which is frankly unfair because it's part of the lexical and expressive repertoire of Nigerian English. It's the worst example of what I call the pathologization of the linguistic singularities of a people.

However, this incident should cause us to reflect on the place of Nigerian English in inter-dialectal English communication, especially because 419 emails have done more to popularize Nigerian English to the rest of the English-speaking world than anything else. That means the stylistic imprints of scam emails from Nigeria vicariously criminalize many innocent Nigerians, as the Nigerian professor’s case and similar other unreported cases have shown.

Concerns about authorship attribution of fraudulent e-mail communications emerged fairly early in studies of Internet fraud. Computational linguists and information systems specialists have deployed strategies to perform software forensics with intent to identify the authors of fraudulent e-mails.  Oliver de Vel and his colleagues, for instance, employed a Support Vector Machine learning algorithm for mining e-mail content based on its structural characteristics and linguistic patterns in order to provide authorship evidence of scam e-mails for use within a legal context.

I know this because about 10 years ago I did research on the rhetorical strategies and stylistic imprints of 419 emails. In the course of my research I came across several forensic linguistic programs that developed email authorship identification markers based solely on phrases and expressions that are unique to 419 email scams. The software developed from these programs helps people automatically trash “419-sounding” emails. 

 The problem, as you can expect, is that the software also deletes many legitimate emails from honest Nigerians since the alarm triggers for the software are uniquely Nigerian English expressions. "Hope to read from you soon" features prominently in the repertoire of "red-flag" expressions the software uses to identify 419 emails. (For evidence, search "I hope to read from you soon" on Google and see what comes up).

When my friend quoted his American acquaintance as saying that his English was "suspect" based on certain expressions, such as "I hope to read from you soon," I knew immediately that the American was hinting that some of his expressions raised Nigerian 419 email authorship identification red flags. The professor is probably familiar with 419 email authorship identification programs and the phrases that trigger them.

One won’t be entirely wrong to call the whole host of 419 email authorship identification programs as engaging in borderline linguistic racism because they basically pathologize and criminalize the stylistic idiosyncrasies of an entire non-native English variety. All of us who were born and educated in Nigeria can't escape Nigerian English inflections in our quotidian communicative encounters every once in a while.  The 419 scam artists write the way they do because they are the products of the Nigerian linguistic environment. It's like isolating American English expressions that appear regularly in the emails of American scammers and developing an authorship identification program based on these expressions so that any email from any American, including even the American president, that uses any stereotyped American English expression is automatically "suspect."  

Well, instead of dwelling in self-pitying lamentation, I’ve decided to highlight some of the stock Nigerian English expressions that email authorship identification programs use to identify Nigerian 419 email scammers—and unfairly criminalize many honest Nigerians.

Farooq A. Kperogi, Ph.D.

Associate Professor

Journalism & Emerging Media
School of Communication & Media

Social Science Building 

Room 5092 MD 2207

402 Bartow Avenue
Kennesaw State University

Kennesaw, Georgia, USA 30144
Cell: (+1) 404-573-9697
Personal website: www.farooqkperogi.com

Twitter: @farooqkperog

Author of Glocal English: The Changing Face and Forms of Nigerian English in a Global World

"The nice thing about pessimism is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised." G. F. Will

[Ibukunolu A Babajide]

Farooq Kperogi,

Your long piece enjoyed my full attention.  From your feeble gatekeeping attempts at being the determinant of what is standard and non-standard English to the sad ignorant fact that you raise the use of "Rubbish in - Rubbish out" methods of using computers to determine language a dynamic living and evolving cultural phenomenon to a silly dizzying height.  I am not surprised you fit that mould perfectly.

You remind me of a Yoruba proverb.  "Alagbara ma mo ero, baba ole" crudely transalted into English in context of this exchange may mean a keen intellect unguided by wisdom is "outrightly" foolish.

You wrote:

"Now, let me be clear: the whole object of my intervention was not to insist that people abandon the use of the word; it is merely to let people know that it's nonstandard, that educated native speakers of the language don't use it. I neither have the power nor the inclination to police anybody's English usage. That's why the fulmination that I'm "ramming down" usage rules down people's throats is so pitifully silly."

So you are the sole determinant of what is standard and nonstandard English?  My friend you are not, and you show a little maturity when you conceded that, "I neither have the power nor the inclination to police anybody's English usage." and by extension you will not be the gatekeeper and last word on what is standard or nonstandard English.

Now go and concentrate on your next paid column.

Cheers.

IBK

_________________________

Ibukunolu Alao Babajide (IBK)

(+2348061276622)
ibk...@gmail.com

[Kenneth Harrow]

Dear all

I never heard anyone say outrightly.

When I travel, I hear a great deal I don’t hear at home in east lansing.

We don’t all speak the same way, even when we speak “the same language.”

I grew up saying, we wait on line.

I learned, having moved to Michigan, people in most of the country say “in line.” I was surprised.

I grew up going to playgrounds with sliding ponds. I was amazed, coming to Michigan, to learn that kids were going down slides or sliding boards.

One region says soda, another says pop. One says highway, another says thruway.

Is it a surprise Nigerians speak a different English from americans?

I learned Nigerians pronounce southern with the “south” part of the word sounding like south, instead of suh-thern.

Life makes us speak differently.

Thank god. How boring it would be if we all spoke the same way.

 

And we all—ALL—recognize the difference between common usage, and correct standard usage, which is used for formal communication, like college papers.

 

There are no mean judges here, just people who learned the rules for standard language usage.

That doesn’t make one form of the language any better than the other. Each has its own place, and we learn the difference as we grow up.

 

As for Farooq, he is not a gatekeeper. He is a scholar, and who writes about the most wonderful and exciting aspects of language. He doesn’t forbid anyone from using the language as they want. But he knows, recognizes, studies, lives and breathes language. And for me, it is always a tremendous pleasure to read his reflections and commentary.

Imagine if we could expand these commentaries on reflections of Nigerian English, Indian English, Australian, etc. and finally, those gloriously poetic forms of English, to my ear, that come with irish and pidgin (Nigerian, Cameroonian, sierra leonian “creole,” etc.)

How long has that trade language of English, pidgin, been spoken in west Africa? Longer than English has been spoken in the u.s.

Who, then, “owns” English? All of us who use it.

ken

 

 

 

Kenneth Harrow

Dept of English and Film Studies

Michigan State University

619 Red Cedar Rd

East Lansing, MI 48824

517-803-8839

har...@msu.edu

http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/

 

From: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of "Farooq A. Kperogi" <farooq...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Friday 28 October 2016 at 11:05
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Farooq, Funmi and Yona

 

Professor Aluko,

--

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

[O O]

1.  Depending on the specific context, the word "outright" currently and generally functions as either an adjective (as in, for example, the phrase "outright nonsense") or as an adverb (as in, for instance, the question "Did you deny outright the infidelity allegation?" Several unabridged online and print dictionaries identify the word "outrightly" as an archaic adverb. The proper or improper use of "outrightly" or any other such word would very much depend on the particular usage context.

2. In 1946, Winston Churchill said, "This is me, Winston Churchill." Usage police at the time (aka editors or usage panelists or stylists or traditional grammarians) immediatelycondemned this grammatical violation by inserting [sic] after this casual usage "This is me." Well, the rest is history. Churchill went on to win the Nobel Prize in Literature (1953) "for his mastery of historical and biographical description as well as for brilliant oratory in defending exalted human values."

3. A related though with some different implications is the usage of the singular "they" or "their" pronoun. Its on-and-off usage has a long history in English language. Today, many traditional grammarians (and sometimes for non-grammatical reasons) reject outright such usage. Again, it boils down to particular contexts or particular purposes. Are you, for instance, preparing students or people to pass a standardized English grammar or usage test? On the other hand, for better or for worse, ideological issues, such as feminism, LGBTQ, come into play, BIG time. One main goal of the advocates of the "they" or "their" or any associated gender or sexual identity usage is inclusivity.

4. An archaic word can resurrect but sometimes with  a different or re-purposed meaning.

5. Ultimately, language usage belongs more to the people than to professorial or professional proscribers. Language experts have less impact on language usage than they think or wish. Sooner or later the life of the usage of a word basically rests with the people (the users).

Begin forwarded message:

From: "Farooq A. Kperogi" <farooq...@gmail.com>
Date: October 28, 2016 at 10:05:52 AM CDT
To: "usaafric...@googlegroups.com" <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Farooq, Funmi and Yona

Reply-To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

[Kenneth Harrow]

Dear ibk

Where does Farooq say he is the sole determinant of standard English?

Did I miss it?

As for proffering an opinion on what is standard or not, and a judgment on where we go to find what is standard, why can’t an expert in the field offer that opinion? It isn’t so easy to get judgments on such things: go look on how to provide an entry for a film in a filmography of a publication: there are zillions of different ways, so each journal or press has to find its own standard to follow. We don’t do this simply on the basis of each individual’s predilections.

The same when we correct our students’ papers. There has to be some reference point for whether to us a possessive apostrophe after the s, as in Camus’ house, or Camus’s house. Which reference book are you going to use?

So why jump on Farooq for saying how we go about trying to get answers for this? why not call such a decision something that is standard? No one is gatekeeping here; it is actually interesting stuff, how all this comes about.

 

ken

 

Kenneth Harrow

Dept of English and Film Studies

Michigan State University

619 Red Cedar Rd

East Lansing, MI 48824

517-803-8839

har...@msu.edu

http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/

 

From: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Ibukunolu A Babajide <ibk...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Friday 28 October 2016 at 12:57
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Farooq, Funmi and Yona

 

Farooq Kperogi,

--

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

[Chidi Anthony Opara]

I am wondering if I will ever need a Farooq, with all the poetic licenses available. Just wondering.

CAO.

[Olayinka Agbetuyi]

As I once stated, and now with knowledge of the context for the start of this 'outright''debate I think its in bad taste to prolong it any further not because people do not have the right to pursue their research intetests, but because participant observer research requires a measure of discretion regarding period of collation of data (or fresh data) and the time and manner of presentation.  

To be blunt participant observer research as opposed to chemical research uses human communities as 'laboratory guinea pigs" and as such sensitivity and taste is paramount and this is a different order from accuracy or non accuracy of data.

Lets move on...

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

[Farooq A. Kperogi]

Thanks, Ken. IBK is smarting from the smack-down I gave him in a private communication over this issue, which I understand.

You see, he is lashing out because some of his settled certainties about grammar and usage were exploded after reading my column, and that caused him intense personal grief, as improbable as this may seem at first. So he is basically undergoing the famous five stages of grief: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. Don't worry: he will come round at some point.

Some people take these insignificant issues seriously. They take it as a personal affront if someone identifies usages and expressions they are wedded to as solecistic. William Safire, the late famous New York Times language columnist, often talked of the visceral reactions he received from people with puny, frail egos each time he called out common usage errors in the language that people were wedded to.

But language columnists actually have very little, if any, influence on the direction of a language. The ultimate "gate-keepers" of languages, especially of the English langue, are the schools. We all had to learn the rules of Standard English to pass exams and climb the social ladder. I teach writing and grammar to native English speakers for a living and do my "gate-keeping" in the classroom. If a student were to write "outrightly" in a writing assignment, for instance, I would circle the word and deduct a point for nonstandard usage.

However, when I write my language columns, I cherish no illusion that I am going to cause anyone to change how they use language. I write because I am paid well to do so and because hundreds of thousands of people read and enjoy my language column every week. Although I occasionally betray a prescriptivist impulse, for the most, I am a descriptivist. That's not "gate-keeping" by any definition of the word.

I have chosen to ignore IBK's unintelligent rants because I know he is just smarting from a really hurtful smack-down. IBK, pele o. The hurt will soon subside. OK? But feel free to vent some more; use all the vocabularies of derision you ever learned to insult me if that would make you feel better. I won't come after you again. Sounds good?

Farooq

Farooq A. Kperogi, Ph.D.

Associate Professor

Journalism & Emerging Media
School of Communication & Media

Social Science Building 

Room 5092 MD 2207

402 Bartow Avenue
Kennesaw State University

Kennesaw, Georgia, USA 30144
Cell: (+1) 404-573-9697
Personal website: www.farooqkperogi.com

Twitter: @farooqkperog

Author of Glocal English: The Changing Face and Forms of Nigerian English in a Global World

"The nice thing about pessimism is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised." G. F. Will

--

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Emeagwali, Gloria (History)]

True enough. Poets have a great deal of latitude and attitude.

They are free to  invent phrases and have us  adopt them eventually- and so, too, singers.

Remember Beyoncé's  "bootilicious"......? I believe it may be in the dictionary now.

I don't have a dictionary at hand to check.

Professor Gloria Emeagwali
History Department
CCSU. New Britain. CT 06050
africahistory.net

vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
Gloria Emeagwali's Documentaries on

Africa and the African Diaspora

---

From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Chidi Anthony Opara <chidi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 6:13 PM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series

Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Farooq, Funmi and Yona

I am wondering if I will ever need a Farooq, with all the poetic licenses available. Just wondering.

CAO.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com 

Current archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fgroup%2FUSAAfricaDialogue&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7Caa38ca7a9d6e42cbb5fe08d3ff861317%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=PJYGbQEzdXNjKNwOTyadHsjNF8nEYn208dVYBlVUoWA%3D&reserved=0
Early archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.utexas.edu%2Fconferences%2Fafrica%2Fads%2Findex.html&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7Caa38ca7a9d6e42cbb5fe08d3ff861317%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=%2BLkJyIICaNGx8eZ79up9mVVUkQ5Whd0Zj%2FNQrWRIMy0%3D&reserved=0

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Foptout&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7Caa38ca7a9d6e42cbb5fe08d3ff861317%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=hgvcsw57By%2B0AgAPAnlBCthUdUvgCwb85s%2FjHox%2FHzc%3D&reserved=0.

[Salimonu Kadiri]

Kenneth Harrow, may I draw your attention to the excerpts from the response of Professor Farooq Kperogi's to Professor Bolaji Aluko's post in which the latter admitted thus, "This *outright(ly)* war is all my fault."

Kperogi: It is true that your post was the immediate trigger for my column, but I had written about this at least seven years earlier.... ..//.. Online dictionaries didn't have an entry for "outrightly" 7 years ago when I first wrote on the word.

You have lived in the US continuously for more than four decades, mostly in university environments. Ask any of your American friends or colleagues if they use "outrightly" as the adverb of "outright." It is merely to let people know that it's nonstandard, that the educated native speakers of the language don't use it.

On the part of Professor Aluko he wrote inter alia thus, "May I confess that in my 1970 WAEC, I got an A1 in English Language and Physics, A2 in Literature, Mathematics and Chemistry and A3 in French and Biology (with a torrid C4 which leaked in my year and had to be re-taken)."

My questions to you Professor Harrow are these:

1. If Professor Farooq Kperogi does not arrogate to himself the power of the sole determinant of standard English, why should the use of the word *outrightly* by Professor Aluko be the immediate trigger for his column on the same word he had written about 7 years ago?

2. If Professor Kperogi does not arrogate to himself the power of the sole determinant of standard English why should he be upset that Professor Aluko chose to adopt the usage of online dictionaries of that word?

3. What has living in the US continuously for more than four decades and mostly in the university environments by Professor Aluko, as emphasized by Kperogi, got to do with freedom of choice to use online dictionaries?

4. If Professor Kperogi does not assume himself to be the sole determinant of standard English, why does he want to let people (not Professor Aluko alone) know that "outrightly is nonstandard that the educated native speakers of the language don't use it?

5. Can Professor Kperogi give us the ratio between non-educated native speakers of English language in the US and educated native speakers of the language?

6. If the non-educated native speakers of English language are permitted to use the word "outrightly," as indirectly indicated by Farooq, without any obvious disadvantage, why then should the educated native speaker be disallowed to use it?

7. Instead of you telling us that you have never heard anyone say "outrightly" why have you not used your professorship in English to improve the online dictionaries?

Just as it has been referenced above, Professor Aluko had his basic education in Nigeria where English is not a native language, before proceeding to the US for further studies in Engineering and not in English language. Nevertheless, he would not have been able to succeed academically in his Engineering studies without adequate understanding of English Language, which is not even his mother tongue. A sophisticated mathematical problem in Engineering which Professor Aluko can solve with his eyes closed in a jiffy, Professor Kperogi, and regardless of his amplitude in English language, will not be able to solve it even if he is given a year to tackle it because a Professor of English Language does not automatically transform to a Professor of Mathematics.

Somewhere else on this thread, Professor Farooq Kperogi wrote, "I have chosen to ignore IBK's unintelligent rants because I know he is just smarting from a really hurtful smack." Professor Farooq Kperogi would appear to have forgotten the admonishment in Quran 31 : 18 that says, "And swell not thy cheek (for pride) at men, nor walk in insolence through the earth, for God loveth not any arrogant boaster." An arrogant boaster is what the psychologists call the neurotic (proud idealist) and describe as an angry person, who feels angry when events do not affirm his/her idealized self image. Interestingly, the idealistic personality can so completely identify with the wish for fictional ideal self that he/she forgets that he/she is not that ideal self and from his/her fictional heights boasts about his/her superiority to other persons. With that said I can only appeal to the Albino to look into the mirror and stop seeing himself as a white man.

S.Kadiri

 

---

Från: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> för Olayinka Agbetuyi <yagb...@hotmail.com>
Skickat: den 28 oktober 2016 22:14
Till: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Ämne: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Farooq, Funmi and Yona

 

[M Buba]

Mr Salimonu Kadiri,

This issue, as Mr Moderator must have noticed, goes beyond professors helping in 'improving online doctionaries'. It is about whether or not 'correct' English usage will make Nigeria (Africa) greater again. It is not going to happen, because:

- No country can ever hope to develop in a language outside its own borders

- Literacy level higher than 70% is the norm in G20 group

- Values and traditions, accessible only to the natives, are the bedrock of sustainable development

English is unlikely to meet any of these benchmarks for our purpose, and it is time we begin to pursue a parallel language policy, whereby our local languages are enabled to encroach in those official turfs currently occupied by English. The long view applies here.

Let's start with ourselves as individuals by insisting on (a) texting/emailing kith and kin only in our first languages, and (b) adopting a 'first language only' policy with spouses and children. 

Happy to share a relevant pdf file of a keynote address I delivered at a conference in Austin, marking the publication of Bangura's excellent book ('Toyin Falola and African Epistemology'). Or you can watch the address here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BwyGXT3uSjg

I may be wrong.

Malami

Prof Malami Buba

HUFS, Korea

[Kenneth Harrow]

Salimonu,

One of my favorite lines from King Lear is, do not come between the lion and his wrath (or maybe it is wroth!)

Me too, I don’t want to jump into a fight!

Please make peace, and we can move on….

Best

ken

 

Kenneth Harrow

Dept of English and Film Studies

Michigan State University

619 Red Cedar Rd

East Lansing, MI 48824

517-803-8839

har...@msu.edu

http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/

 

[Ayotunde Bewaji]

Does anyone ever listen to Donald Trump mangle up the American English Language? Does anyone notice any American Professor upbraid him or put him down? By taking American English seriously, Americans understand the need for language independence, suggested by Professor Malami Buba that we take our own languages seriously - proven by research at University of Ife, Ile-Ife (now OAU) decades - we will be laying the eternal foundations of our own continental development. 

I am still hoping to take seriously a challenge of a Canadian colleague that I write an essay for him in Yoruba language in my area of interest - Epistemology! I have not had the courage to do it yet, but I will, there being life and good health. This still reminds me of Tunji Oyelana on Ede Oyinbo kii se ti baba mi, shared by me previously. And it is one of the reasons I did The Rule of Law and Governance in Indigenous Yoruba Society - A Study in African Philosophy of Law (2016). 

Remember the distraction of African societies lacking literary cultures, literatures, histories, philosophies, social and political traditions, etc, etc. At times, I wonder why the gba ran mi d'eleru ti a ji ni do d'oko fun ni. We are a strange people in deed. Oriki Esu Laalu Ogiri Oko shows this well - o b'elekun sun'kun k'eru o b'elekun, elekun n sun'kun, Laaroye n sun ejeI Eni a pe ko wa wo gobi, to ni ki lleleyi gobi gobi? O ma se o! It did for our collective bodi! How we are now our best enemies - Narratives of Struggle (2012).

Ire ni o.

Tunde.

[Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju]

I would like to appreciate Buba's call for  the necessity of amplifying the use of   indigenous languages.

I'm wary, though, about the notion of indigenous cultures, of which languages are a part, as the solution to Africa's development problems.

Is development not more complex than that?

​toyin​

On 30 October 2016 at 10:41, 'Ayotunde Bewaji' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Does anyone ever listen to Donald Trump mangle up the American English Language? Does anyone notice any American Professor upbraid him or put him down? By taking American English seriously, Americans understand the need for language independence, suggested by Professor Malami Buba that we take our own languages seriously - proven by research at University of Ife, Ile-Ife (now OAU) decades - we will be laying the eternal foundations of our own continental development. 

I am still hoping to take seriously a challenge of a Canadian colleague that I write an essay for him in Yoruba language in my area of interest - Epistemology! I have not had the courage to do it yet, but I will, there being life and good health. This still reminds me of Tunji Oyelana on Ede Oyinbo kii se ti baba mi, shared by me previously. And it is one of the reasons I did The Rule of Law and Governance in Indigenous Yoruba Society - A Study in African Philosophy of Law (2016). 

Remember the distraction of African societies lacking literary cultures, literatures, histories, philosophies, social and political traditions, etc, etc. At times, I wonder why the gba ran mi d'eleru ti a ji ni do d'oko fun ni. We are a strange people in deed. Oriki Esu Laalu Ogiri Oko shows this well - o b'elekun sun'kun k'eru o b'elekun, elekun n sun'kun, Laaroye n sun ejeI Eni a pe ko wa wo gobi, to ni ki lleleyi gobi gobi? O ma se o! It did for our collective bodi! How we are now our best enemies - Narratives of Struggle (2012).

Ire ni o.

Tunde.

On Sunday, 30 October 2016, 6:18, Kenneth Harrow <har...@msu.edu> wrote:

Salimonu,

One of my favorite lines from King Lear is, do not come between the lion and his wrath (or maybe it is wroth!)

Me too, I don’t want to jump into a fight!

Please make peace, and we can move on….

Best

ken

 

Kenneth Harrow

Dept of English and Film Studies

Michigan State University

619 Red Cedar Rd

East Lansing, MI 48824

517-803-8839

har...@msu.edu

http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/

 

From: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Salimonu Kadiri <ogunl...@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Date: Saturday 29 October 2016 at 17:12
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: SV: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Farooq, Funmi and Yona

 

Kenneth Harrow, may I draw your attention to the excerpts from the response of Professor Farooq Kperogi's to Professor Bolaji Aluko's post in which the latter admitted thus, "This *outright(ly)* war is all my fault."

 

Kperogi: It is true that your post was the immediate trigger for my column, but I had written about this at least seven years earlier.... ..//.. Online dictionaries didn't have an entry for "outrightly" 7 years ago when I first wrote on the word.

You have lived in the US continuously for more than four decades, mostly in university environments. Ask any of your American friends or colleagues if they use "outrightly" as the adverb of "outright." It is merely to let people know that it's nonstandard, that the educated native speakers of the language don't use it.

On the part of Professor Aluko he wrote inter alia thus, "May I confess that in my 1970 WAEC, I got an A1 in English Language and Physics, A2 in Literature, Mathematics and Chemistry and A3 in French and Biology (with a torrid C4 which leaked in my year and had to be re-taken)."

 

My questions to you Professor Harrow are these:

1. If Professor Farooq Kperogi does not arrogate to himself the power of the sole determinant of standard English, why should the use of the word *outrightly* by Professor Aluko be the immediate trigger for his column on the same word he had written about 7 years ago?

2. If Professor Kperogi does not arrogate to himself the power of the sole determinant of standard English why should he be upset that Professor Aluko chose to adopt the usage of online dictionaries of that word?

3. What has living in the US continuously for more than four decades and mostly in the university environments by Professor Aluko, as emphasized by Kperogi, got to do with freedom of choice to use online dictionaries?

4. If Professor Kperogi does not assume himself to be the sole determinant of standard English, why does he want to let people (not Professor Aluko alone) know that "outrightly is nonstandard that the educated native speakers of the language don't use it?

5. Can Professor Kperogi give us the ratio between non-educated native speakers of English language in the US and educated native speakers of the language?

6. If the non-educated native speakers of English language are permitted to use the word "outrightly," as indirectly indicated by Farooq, without any obvious disadvantage, why then should the educated native speaker be disallowed to use it?

7. Instead of you telling us that you have never heard anyone say "outrightly" why have you not used your professorship in English to improve the online dictionaries?

 

Just as it has been referenced above, Professor Aluko had his basic education in Nigeria where English is not a native language, before proceeding to the US for further studies in Engineering and not in English language. Nevertheless, he would not have been able to succeed academically in his Engineering studies without adequate understanding of English Language, which is not even his mother tongue. A sophisticated mathematical problem in Engineering which Professor Aluko can solve with his eyes closed in a jiffy, Professor Kperogi, and regardless of his amplitude in English language, will not be able to solve it even if he is given a year to tackle it because a Professor of English Language does not automatically transform to a Professor of Mathematics.

 

Somewhere else on this thread, Professor Farooq Kperogi wrote, "I have chosen to ignore IBK's unintelligent rants because I know he is just smarting from a really hurtful smack." Professor Farooq Kperogi would appear to have forgotten the admonishment in Quran 31 : 18 that says, "And swell not thy cheek (for pride) at men, nor walk in insolence through the earth, for God loveth not any arrogant boaster." An arrogant boaster is what the psychologists call the neurotic (proud idealist) and describe as an angry person, who feels angry when events do not affirm his/her idealized self image. Interestingly, the idealistic personality can so completely identify with the wish for fictional ideal self that he/she forgets that he/she is not that ideal self and from his/her fictional heights boasts about his/her superiority to other persons. With that said I can only appeal to the Albino to look into the mirror and stop seeing himself as a white man.

S.Kadiri

 

 

 

---

Från: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> för Olayinka Agbetuyi <yagb...@hotmail.com>
Skickat: den 28 oktober 2016 22:14
Till: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com

--

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Kenneth Harrow]

Tunde, I try not to listen to trump. But I think we need to distinguish two things: one is “correct” standard English, which we can read in formal exposition, and then spoken English.

Believe me, no one speaks “correct” English.

I once edited a series of talks given at the Afr Lit Assn, including those of gates and said and other luminaries.

Believe me, no one speaks “correct” English!

ken

 

Kenneth Harrow

Dept of English and Film Studies

Michigan State University

619 Red Cedar Rd

East Lansing, MI 48824

517-803-8839

har...@msu.edu

http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/

 

Från: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> för Olayinka Agbetuyi <yagb...@hotmail.com>
Skickat: den 28 oktober 2016 22:14
Till: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Ämne: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Farooq, Funmi and Yona

 

 

 

As I once stated, and now with knowledge of the context for the start of this 'outright''debate I think its in bad taste to prolong it any further not because people do not have the right to pursue their research intetests, but because participant observer research requires a measure of discretion regarding period of collation of data (or fresh data) and the time and manner of presentation.  

 

To be blunt participant observer research as opposed to chemical research uses human communities as 'laboratory guinea pigs" and as such sensitivity and taste is paramount and this is a different order from accuracy or non accuracy of data.

 

Lets move on...

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Kenneth Harrow <har...@msu.edu>

Date: 28/10/2016 19:49 (GMT+00:00)

To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

--

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

[Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju]

k

​enneth harrow,

are you not exaggerating?

toyin

Från: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> för Olayinka Agbetuyi <yagb...@hotmail.com>
Skickat: den 28 oktober 2016 22:14
Till: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Ämne: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Farooq, Funmi and Yona

 

 

 

As I once stated, and now with knowledge of the context for the start of this 'outright''debate I think its in bad taste to prolong it any further not because people do not have the right to pursue their research intetests, but because participant observer research requires a measure of discretion regarding period of collation of data (or fresh data) and the time and manner of presentation.  

 

To be blunt participant observer research as opposed to chemical research uses human communities as 'laboratory guinea pigs" and as such sensitivity and taste is paramount and this is a different order from accuracy or non accuracy of data.

 

Lets move on...

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Kenneth Harrow <har...@msu.edu>

Date: 28/10/2016 19:49 (GMT+00:00)

To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>

--

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Kenneth Harrow]

No, because when we speak we run the words and sounds together. Just listen to yourself and others; we slur our way through words; we elide and collapse words. We don’t always  match the proper subj and number with the verb.

We are communicating, not printing speech. And most of all, with intonation we create meaning that words, without sound, can’t quite capture.

That is my impression, anyway.

I am talking about conversational speech; not written texts.

ken

 

Kenneth Harrow

Dept of English and Film Studies

Michigan State University

619 Red Cedar Rd

East Lansing, MI 48824

517-803-8839

har...@msu.edu

http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/

 

From: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin....@gmail.com>
Reply-To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Sunday 30 October 2016 at 11:51
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: SV: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Farooq, Funmi and Yona

 

k

Från: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> för Olayinka Agbetuyi <yagb...@hotmail.com>
Skickat: den 28 oktober 2016 22:14
Till: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Ämne: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Farooq, Funmi and Yona

 

 

 

As I once stated, and now with knowledge of the context for the start of this 'outright''debate I think its in bad taste to prolong it any further not because people do not have the right to pursue their research intetests, but because participant observer research requires a measure of discretion regarding period of collation of data (or fresh data) and the time and manner of presentation.  

 

To be blunt participant observer research as opposed to chemical research uses human communities as 'laboratory guinea pigs" and as such sensitivity and taste is paramount and this is a different order from accuracy or non accuracy of data.

 

Lets move on...

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Kenneth Harrow <har...@msu.edu>

Date: 28/10/2016 19:49 (GMT+00:00)

To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

--

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

[Farooq A. Kperogi]

Folks are mixing up so many unrelated issues, and it's getting really frustrating. Before you make a point, have grounds for it. Yes, people, several people actually, have written about Donald Trump's English usage. A famous study concluded that he speaks at a Third Grade Leve (see lhttp://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/donald-trump-talks-like-a-third-grader-121340). English teachers have torn apart his grammar. See, for instance, this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/debra-bruno/donald-trump-english-teacher_b_11353444.html.

 

But as a rhetorician, I know Trump's mangled English isn't a product of insufficient mastery of the language. It is a deliberate rhetorical strategy designed to establish identification with the lower end of the American social stratum that constitutes the "base" of the Republican Party. In his book Language and Symbolic Power, French theorist Pierre Bourdieu calls this "strategy of condescension." Bourdieu didn't mean "condescension" in the everyday sense of the word as disdain or patronage; he meant the ability to negotiate and seamlessly traverse several "linguistic markets," as he called it. He said this ability invests people with immense social and cultural capital. As Peter Haney puts it, strategies of condescension occur "when someone at the top of a social hierarchy adopts the speech or style of those at the bottom. With such a move, the dominant actor seeks to profit from the inequality that he or she ostensibly negates."

 

George Bush used it to maximum effect. People still remember him as the former US president who could barely string together grammatically correct sentences in English, who spoke with a Texan drawl. But Bush is the scion of "old money" who went to elite prep schools and grew up mostly in the northeast. If he wanted to sound "polished" and "cultivated," he could, but he would risk calling attention to his privilege and thereby alienating people he wanted to appeal to.

 

That doesn't mean people at the upper end of the social scale don't innocently mangle the language. For instance, when Hillary Clinton recently called some Trump supporters a "basket of deplorables," American English grammarians took her on; they said "deplorable" is an adjective, not a noun, and therefore can’t be pluralized as "deplorables" since only nouns are pluralized. But "deplorables" may become mainstream in the coming years if enough people with social and cultural capital use it the same way Hillary used it. That's how language evolves. 

 

In a February 3, 2013 column titled "How Political Elite Influence English Grammar and Vocabulary," I pointed out several examples of the changes in the lexis and grammar of the language that were instigated by political and cultural elites across the pond. When former President Warren Harding first used the word "normalcy" instead of the then usual "normality," he was ridiculed. But "normalcy" is now mainstream. For more examples, click on the link.

 

Unfortunately, only native speakers of English get to have that much influence on the language, which is both unsurprising and invidious given the status of English as a world language with more non-native speakers than native speakers. Deviations from the norm that emerge from non-native speakers are often condemned to marginality. There are exceptions, though. Chinese English speakers in the US have made enduring contributions to the lexis and structure of the language in very fascinating ways.  For instance, the expression "long time no see" came to English by way of Chinese English speakers in California. This ungrammatical but nonetheless fixed English expression, which is used as a salutation by people who have not seen each other for a long time, is a loan translation from Mandarin hǎo jiǔ bú jiàn, which literally means "very long time no see." It was initially derided as "broken" English in California, but because the expression filled a real lexical and idiomatic void in the language, it quickly spread to other parts of the US, then crossed the pond to the UK, and is now part of the repertoire of international English. Expressions like "no-go area," "have a look-see," etc. were also Chinese broken English expressions that are now idiomatic in the language. (Check out my April 19, 2015 column titled "Popular Expressions English Borrowed from Other Languages" and my 4-part series titled "The African Origins of Common English Words").

 

To people who think enthusiasm in a foreign language is synonymous with a lack of pride in one's native language, you couldn't be more wrong. I speak Baatonun, my native language, to my children at home here in America. We don't speak English as a deliberate policy. In addition, my children don’t speak English to each other. So my children have native proficiency in two languages: Baatonun (which Yoruba people call “Bariba”) and English. Each time we visit Nigeria they communicate effectively with their grandparents (who don't speak English) and with their cousins, uncles and other relatives. When I went home last summer and stayed in my hometown for three weeks people were shocked that my children were more proficient in the language than many Baatonu children at home, especially children who were raised in Ilorin and other Nigerian urban centers. (Read my November 16, 2014 column titled "Anglophilia and Dying Nigerian Languages: A Personal Narrative")

 

My father taught me to read and write in Baatonun since I was 4 or thereabouts, and I corresponded with him in my native language throughout my days in the university and even while here in the US when email hadn't become demotic. I also take time to teach my children how to write in my language. So they are effective bilinguals like me.

 

But what some commentators here seem to be missing is the fact that English is the glue that holds Nigeria. Without it, there would be no Nigeria. Every multi-ethnic country needs a common language to bring its disparate peoples together. Given that Nigeria has more than 300 distinct, mutually unintelligible languages, I don't see which language can replace English as the language of government, education, the media, official communication, etc. without instigating disintegration. I recall that in my high school, we resisted learning any of the three major Nigerian languages. 

 

Plus, English is the world's dominant language now. It's the language of scholarship, of aviation, of computer science, etc. Someone even called it the "Latin of globalization." Ignore it and risk being shut out of the world. That's why many non-English-speaking countries are increasingly adopting English as the language of instruction in their schools. South Koreans undergo lingual frenectomy (that is, surgery on their tongues) to be able to speak perfect English (see http://articles.latimes.com/2004/jan/18/news/adfg-tongue18), so stop all this mushy romanticization of “native language” proficiency and the pretense that only Nigerians are smitten by Anglophilia.

 

Farooq Kperogi

Farooq A. Kperogi, Ph.D.

Associate Professor

Journalism & Emerging Media
School of Communication & Media

Social Science Building 

Room 5092 MD 2207

402 Bartow Avenue
Kennesaw State University

Kennesaw, Georgia, USA 30144
Cell: (+1) 404-573-9697
Personal website: www.farooqkperogi.com

Twitter: @farooqkperog

Author of Glocal English: The Changing Face and Forms of Nigerian English in a Global World

"The nice thing about pessimism is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised." G. F. Will

On Sun, Oct 30, 2016 at 6:41 AM, 'Ayotunde Bewaji' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Does anyone ever listen to Donald Trump mangle up the American English Language? Does anyone notice any American Professor upbraid him or put him down? By taking American English seriously, Americans understand the need for language independence, suggested by Professor Malami Buba that we take our own languages seriously - proven by research at University of Ife, Ile-Ife (now OAU) decades - we will be laying the eternal foundations of our own continental development. 

I am still hoping to take seriously a challenge of a Canadian colleague that I write an essay for him in Yoruba language in my area of interest - Epistemology! I have not had the courage to do it yet, but I will, there being life and good health. This still reminds me of Tunji Oyelana on Ede Oyinbo kii se ti baba mi, shared by me previously. And it is one of the reasons I did The Rule of Law and Governance in Indigenous Yoruba Society - A Study in African Philosophy of Law (2016). 

Remember the distraction of African societies lacking literary cultures, literatures, histories, philosophies, social and political traditions, etc, etc. At times, I wonder why the gba ran mi d'eleru ti a ji ni do d'oko fun ni. We are a strange people in deed. Oriki Esu Laalu Ogiri Oko shows this well - o b'elekun sun'kun k'eru o b'elekun, elekun n sun'kun, Laaroye n sun ejeI Eni a pe ko wa wo gobi, to ni ki lleleyi gobi gobi? O ma se o! It did for our collective bodi! How we are now our best enemies - Narratives of Struggle (2012).

Ire ni o.

Tunde.

On Sunday, 30 October 2016, 6:18, Kenneth Harrow <har...@msu.edu> wrote:

Salimonu,

One of my favorite lines from King Lear is, do not come between the lion and his wrath (or maybe it is wroth!)

Me too, I don’t want to jump into a fight!

Please make peace, and we can move on….

Best

ken

 

Kenneth Harrow

Dept of English and Film Studies

Michigan State University

619 Red Cedar Rd

East Lansing, MI 48824

517-803-8839

har...@msu.edu

http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/

 

From: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Salimonu Kadiri <ogunl...@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Date: Saturday 29 October 2016 at 17:12
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: SV: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Farooq, Funmi and Yona

 

Kenneth Harrow, may I draw your attention to the excerpts from the response of Professor Farooq Kperogi's to Professor Bolaji Aluko's post in which the latter admitted thus, "This *outright(ly)* war is all my fault."

 

Kperogi: It is true that your post was the immediate trigger for my column, but I had written about this at least seven years earlier.... ..//.. Online dictionaries didn't have an entry for "outrightly" 7 years ago when I first wrote on the word.

You have lived in the US continuously for more than four decades, mostly in university environments. Ask any of your American friends or colleagues if they use "outrightly" as the adverb of "outright." It is merely to let people know that it's nonstandard, that the educated native speakers of the language don't use it.

On the part of Professor Aluko he wrote inter alia thus, "May I confess that in my 1970 WAEC, I got an A1 in English Language and Physics, A2 in Literature, Mathematics and Chemistry and A3 in French and Biology (with a torrid C4 which leaked in my year and had to be re-taken)."

 

My questions to you Professor Harrow are these:

1. If Professor Farooq Kperogi does not arrogate to himself the power of the sole determinant of standard English, why should the use of the word *outrightly* by Professor Aluko be the immediate trigger for his column on the same word he had written about 7 years ago?

2. If Professor Kperogi does not arrogate to himself the power of the sole determinant of standard English why should he be upset that Professor Aluko chose to adopt the usage of online dictionaries of that word?

3. What has living in the US continuously for more than four decades and mostly in the university environments by Professor Aluko, as emphasized by Kperogi, got to do with freedom of choice to use online dictionaries?

4. If Professor Kperogi does not assume himself to be the sole determinant of standard English, why does he want to let people (not Professor Aluko alone) know that "outrightly is nonstandard that the educated native speakers of the language don't use it?

5. Can Professor Kperogi give us the ratio between non-educated native speakers of English language in the US and educated native speakers of the language?

6. If the non-educated native speakers of English language are permitted to use the word "outrightly," as indirectly indicated by Farooq, without any obvious disadvantage, why then should the educated native speaker be disallowed to use it?

7. Instead of you telling us that you have never heard anyone say "outrightly" why have you not used your professorship in English to improve the online dictionaries?

 

Just as it has been referenced above, Professor Aluko had his basic education in Nigeria where English is not a native language, before proceeding to the US for further studies in Engineering and not in English language. Nevertheless, he would not have been able to succeed academically in his Engineering studies without adequate understanding of English Language, which is not even his mother tongue. A sophisticated mathematical problem in Engineering which Professor Aluko can solve with his eyes closed in a jiffy, Professor Kperogi, and regardless of his amplitude in English language, will not be able to solve it even if he is given a year to tackle it because a Professor of English Language does not automatically transform to a Professor of Mathematics.

 

Somewhere else on this thread, Professor Farooq Kperogi wrote, "I have chosen to ignore IBK's unintelligent rants because I know he is just smarting from a really hurtful smack." Professor Farooq Kperogi would appear to have forgotten the admonishment in Quran 31 : 18 that says, "And swell not thy cheek (for pride) at men, nor walk in insolence through the earth, for God loveth not any arrogant boaster." An arrogant boaster is what the psychologists call the neurotic (proud idealist) and describe as an angry person, who feels angry when events do not affirm his/her idealized self image. Interestingly, the idealistic personality can so completely identify with the wish for fictional ideal self that he/she forgets that he/she is not that ideal self and from his/her fictional heights boasts about his/her superiority to other persons. With that said I can only appeal to the Albino to look into the mirror and stop seeing himself as a white man.

S.Kadiri

 

 

 

---

Från: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> för Olayinka Agbetuyi <yagb...@hotmail.com>
Skickat: den 28 oktober 2016 22:14
Till: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com

--

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Olayinka Agbetuyi]

You are absolutely right Ken. To put it another way when taking my ESOL teaching qualifications I was told that educated Africans sounded stilted when speaking precisely because they tended to speak the ' correct' English 'bookish' version of English devoid of the ellisions and contractions that charactetize normal native spoken English (It is the total flow these that is called intonation and the exact variable characteristics of these constitute what is referred to as regional accents, or, better regional intonation.)

[Kenneth Harrow]

Thanks for the validation olayinka.

Another thing I remember from that said transcription, he’d start a sentence and then switch halfway through to another sentence or thought, or then go back again.

We don’t always speak in complete sentences, or with punctuation!

And of course our purpose in speaking is not to be correct in any formal sense, but to communicate something. And so very often it will be simply a phrase or a part of a sentence.

 

 

Kenneth Harrow

Dept of English and Film Studies

Michigan State University

619 Red Cedar Rd

East Lansing, MI 48824

517-803-8839

har...@msu.edu

http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/

 

[Kenneth Harrow]

In respect to farooq’s comments:

It would be interesting to know how the dominant language(s) in a given culture have risen or fallen.

Some examples of my curiosity: to what extent has English replaced French in Morocco, Rwanda, and Senegal.

To what extent has French yielded to wolof in Senegal?

The notion that French had to be used in Cameroon as the national language was based on Farooq’s rationalization for national identity. the glue that held disparate language speakers together. But in fact, the most widely spoken language in Cameroon in the 70s was pidgin English. I bet that is still the case.

How widely spoken is pidgin, and not standard English?

And most of all, why can’t we call pidgin a separate language. Or, to be accurate, a set of separate languages since the regional differences are considerable.

Lastly, I have a strong impression that it is not government diktats that determine what language will be spoken, but rather the economic and social exchanges of the people themselves, which explains the decline in French (despite the greatest efforts of France for la francophonie), and the ascendancy of English (without the americans giving a damn); and by “English” of course I mean “American English” not British English.

Just consider the dominant music in the world today: hip hop/rap, and the notion of cultural spread not being driven by government policy should be apparent.

ken

 

Kenneth Harrow

Dept of English and Film Studies

Michigan State University

619 Red Cedar Rd

East Lansing, MI 48824

517-803-8839

har...@msu.edu

http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/

 

From: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of "Farooq A. Kperogi" <farooq...@gmail.com>

Reply-To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Sunday 30 October 2016 at 12:43
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

Från: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> för Olayinka Agbetuyi <yagb...@hotmail.com>
Skickat: den 28 oktober 2016 22:14
Till: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Ämne: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Farooq, Funmi and Yona

 

 

 

As I once stated, and now with knowledge of the context for the start of this 'outright''debate I think its in bad taste to prolong it any further not because people do not have the right to pursue their research intetests, but because participant observer research requires a measure of discretion regarding period of collation of data (or fresh data) and the time and manner of presentation.  

 

To be blunt participant observer research as opposed to chemical research uses human communities as 'laboratory guinea pigs" and as such sensitivity and taste is paramount and this is a different order from accuracy or non accuracy of data.

 

Lets move on...

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Kenneth Harrow <har...@msu.edu>

Date: 28/10/2016 19:49 (GMT+00:00)

To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

--

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

 

--

Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

[Ibrahim Abdullah]

What constitutes correct english? 

[Olayinka Agbetuyi]

Hillary Clinton's nominalised adjective  (among other nominalized phrases) has been widely used since my undergraduate English language courses, so I honestly find nothing new in that.

As for 'govt diktat' on national language(s) as a binding force I once mentioned several years ago on this forum the case of India's 16 (perhaps they were inspired by Esu-Elegbara seeing that they are largely polytheistic)  in addition to English. I would think such a move will actually galvanize the socio-economic cohesiveness Ken speaks about rather than being the result of it.

No wonder in terms of political cohesion India in spite of its population which is ten times that of Nigeria is achieving monumental giants strides socio-economically  while all Nigeria has to show is ethnic divisions and economic stagnation.

Yes English is a global language; for a Nigerian to state that it is the only language capable of binding the country together  and that no indigenous language is so capable is to admit of racial inferiority complex: if we were not colonized we would not have progressed!

[Emeagwali, Gloria (History)]

"George Bush used it to maximum effect. People still remember him as the former US president who could barely string together grammatically correct sentences in English, who spoke with a Texan drawl. But Bush is the scion of "old money" who went to elite prep schools and grew up mostly in the northeast. If he wanted to sound "polished" and "cultivated," he could, but he would risk calling attention to his privilege and thereby alienating people he wanted to appeal to."

You are completely wrong about Bush. To suggest that he deliberately talked down to people is incorrect.

We all know that George Bush was academically weak- despite the tutoring of Condoleeza Rice and others.

He was unable to do better.Go back and listen to his conversations and off the cuff comments. 

But,  I guess you had to say that,  to  protect your theory that natural borns automatically speak fantastic English. 

At the end of the day your argument actually sounds like a racist one. When  folks of a certain ethnic group speak  

non-standard English, well, they are  deliberately speaking down. When someone else speaks,

though, they are violators of the rules,  and  "sinners."  Get over it.

Gloria

 

Professor Gloria Emeagwali
History Department
CCSU. New Britain. CT 06050
africahistory.net

vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
Gloria Emeagwali's Documentaries on

Africa and the African Diaspora

---

From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Farooq A. Kperogi <farooq...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2016 12:43 PM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: SV: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Farooq, Funmi and Yona

 

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

[Olayinka Agbetuyi]

Thank you my friend. Nothing short of Yoruba meta-language (s) in all the disciplines will do. We are actively working in that direction now.

Elegbara a agbe wa o!

[Farooq A. Kperogi]

On Sun, Oct 30, 2016 at 5:06 PM, Olayinka Agbetuyi <yagb...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Yes English is a global language; for a Nigerian to state that it is the only language capable of binding the country together  and that no indigenous language is so capable is to admit of racial inferiority complex: if we were not colonized we would not have progressed!

Nigeria didn't evolve naturally. It emerged in its present form because English colonialists willed it into being. It could very well have emerged without colonialism, but it didn't. If it did, a dominant language might have emerged that would glue the people that would constitute the country. But that is in the realm of "what could have been," not "what is." I am concerned with "what is." Given the battles of supremacy between the dominant ethnic groups in Nigeria, it would be disastrous to impose one language as the national language in the country. 

East Africans have been able to adopt Swahili as their national language because it's basically a non-ethnic language. "Indigenous" Swahili speakers are not a "major" ethnic group in most East African countries in the sense in which Yoruba, Igbo and Hausa are in Nigeria, for instance.

There is no "racial inferiority" in admitting that one of the easiest ways to hasten Nigeria's disintegration right now is to impose any indigenous language on the population. Take English out and Nigeria is gone. No question about it. Wole Soyinka once suggested that we adopt Swahili as our national language because of the impossibility of adopting any Nigerian language to play that role. Of course, that's not practicable. So we are stuck with English as long as the structure we inherited from colonialism is intact.

Farooq

[Olayinka Agbetuyi]

Thank you prof. When Bush went in for his first term I was researching in a library in London when one of the ' downtrodden' came to me brandishing a time or newsweek mag in which it was acknowledged that Bush was a dullard at Yale only propped up to complete the programme because of his family connections. The same was repeated while I was teaching in the US.

[Farooq A. Kperogi]

I have no theory to protect, Gloria. Native English speakers are actually more apt to make grammatical errors than non-native speakers who study the language systematically. Many people have written about this. I have mentioned this fact in several of my writings. So I have no theory of the linguistic infallibility of native English speakers. That theory exists only in your imagination.

 I know a lot of us are invested in the narrative that George Bush is a doofus. I, too, would want that to be true because I resent his politics. But many people have studied his speeches before he became governor of Texas and after, and found radical differences in his speech patterns. I am not making this up.

Get over this unhealthy obsession with race. Not everything is about race.

Farooq

Farooq A. Kperogi, Ph.D.

Associate Professor

Journalism & Emerging Media
School of Communication & Media

Social Science Building 

Room 5092 MD 2207

402 Bartow Avenue
Kennesaw State University

Kennesaw, Georgia, USA 30144
Cell: (+1) 404-573-9697
Personal website: www.farooqkperogi.com

Twitter: @farooqkperog

Author of Glocal English: The Changing Face and Forms of Nigerian English in a Global World

"The nice thing about pessimism is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised." G. F. Will

On Sun, Oct 30, 2016 at 4:54 PM, Emeagwali, Gloria (History) <emea...@ccsu.edu> wrote:

"George Bush used it to maximum effect. People still remember him as the former US president who could barely string together grammatically correct sentences in English, who spoke with a Texan drawl. But Bush is the scion of "old money" who went to elite prep schools and grew up mostly in the northeast. If he wanted to sound "polished" and "cultivated," he could, but he would risk calling attention to his privilege and thereby alienating people he wanted to appeal to."

You are completely wrong about Bush. To suggest that he deliberately talked down to people is incorrect.

We all know that George Bush was academically weak- despite the tutoring of Condoleeza Rice and others.

He was unable to do better.Go back and listen to his conversations and off the cuff comments. 

But,  I guess you had to say that,  to  protect your theory that natural borns automatically speak fantastic English. 

At the end of the day your argument actually sounds like a racist one. When  folks of a certain ethnic group speak  

non-standard English, well, they are  deliberately speaking down. When someone else speaks,

though, they are violators of the rules,  and  "sinners."  Get over it.

Gloria

 

Professor Gloria Emeagwali
History Department
CCSU. New Britain. CT 06050
africahistory.net

vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
Gloria Emeagwali's Documentaries on

Africa and the African Diaspora

---

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Farooq A. Kperogi <farooq...@gmail.com>

Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2016 12:43 PM

To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com

[Olayinka Agbetuyi]

I agree there might be disintegration if only ONE is adopted. If India can adopt 16 to hasten the journey toward its own lingua franca why cant Nigeria adopt its most widely spoken 3 and leave the rest to socio-economic forces in say the next 3 to 4 generations? Because the minorities dont like that?

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------

From: "Farooq A. Kperogi" <farooq...@gmail.com>

Date: 30/10/2016 21:56 (GMT+00:00)

To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: SV: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Farooq, Funmi and Yona

[Farooq A. Kperogi]

On Sun, Oct 30, 2016 at 6:05 PM, Olayinka Agbetuyi <yagb...@hotmail.com> wrote:

I agree there might be disintegration if only ONE is adopted. If India can adopt 16 to hasten the journey toward its own lingua franca why cant Nigeria adopt its most widely spoken 3 and leave the rest to socio-economic forces in say the next 3 to 4 generations? Because the minorities dont like that?

You're probably saying that because you think your language (I'm guessing that you're Yoruba based on your name) would be among the three languages to be adopted. I'd take you seriously if you propose that we adopt minority languages from the north, the south and the central states as our national languages.

 The truth is that no people with even a scintilla language pride would sit idly and allow another language that doesn't give them any global or ideational advantages to be imposed on them. Why can't I study my own language if the idea behind learning in indigenous languages is to help people develop indigenous epistemologies? Any language other than my own language is just as foreign as English is, except that English connects me to a larger world and a vaster reservoir of knowledge. Why would any sane person give up the advantages of English proficiency for another foreign language that imposes needless and avoidable limitations on them? I wrote earlier that in my part of Kwara State, we resisted the curricular tyranny that required Nigerians to learn one of Hausa, Yoruba or Igbo. We refused to enroll for the classes and the teachers had to be taken elsewhere. This happened in several other places like Benue, Kogi, Bayelsa, Edo, etc. where people speak languages other than Igbo, Yoruba or Hausa. That's why the policy has been dropped. Your three-language national education policy proposal is dead on arrival in Nigeria. I don't speak any of the three major Nigerian languages, for instance, and I would resist anyone imposing them on me or my people this late in our evolution as a country.

[Ibrahim Abdullah]

What constitutes “correct” English?

[M Buba]

Toyin,

The bit about values and traditions has a deeper connection to 'ways of knowing', a core contribution of Toyin Falola (and others) to the fledgling African epistemology paradigm. The Protestant ethic is a value system. The pursuit of happiness is another core tradition.  Ubuntu or Mutuntaka 'personhood' - 'shared humanity' in Bangura's term - fits into this conceptual framework. 

Embedded in our (African) languages and cultures are these shared  essences - 'a person is a person through other persons' - in need of recovery. Once recovered, they could be used to organise a curriculum, for example. The Japanese are said to owe their rapid development to their awareness of such core belief, roughly translated as 'earnestness'. That's why I recommend Abdulkarim Bangura's 'TF & Afr. Epistemology' as an excellent overview of an alternative/parallel way forward for Africa.

I may be wrong.

Malami 

Prof Malami  Buba

HUFS, Korea

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

[Kenneth Harrow]

This reminds me of what I had heard about senator Fulbright—the one of the Fulbright awards.

He was highly intelligent and spoke as such, when in Washington. When he campaigned back in Arkansas, all of a sudden he became on old boy, speaking like a local….

Go figure

k

 

Kenneth Harrow

Dept of English and Film Studies

Michigan State University

619 Red Cedar Rd

East Lansing, MI 48824

517-803-8839

har...@msu.edu

http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/

 

From: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of "Farooq A. Kperogi" <farooq...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Sunday 30 October 2016 at 17:55
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: SV: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Farooq, Funmi and Yona

 

I have no theory to protect, Gloria. Native English speakers are actually more apt to make grammatical errors than non-native speakers who study the language systematically. Many people have written about this. I have mentioned this fact in several of my writings. So I have no theory of the linguistic infallibility of native English speakers. That theory exists only in your imagination.

Från: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> för Olayinka Agbetuyi <yagb...@hotmail.com>
Skickat: den 28 oktober 2016 22:14
Till: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Ämne: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Farooq, Funmi and Yona

 

 

 

As I once stated, and now with knowledge of the context for the start of this 'outright''debate I think its in bad taste to prolong it any further not because people do not have the right to pursue their research intetests, but because participant observer research requires a measure of discretion regarding period of collation of data (or fresh data) and the time and manner of presentation.  

 

To be blunt participant observer research as opposed to chemical research uses human communities as 'laboratory guinea pigs" and as such sensitivity and taste is paramount and this is a different order from accuracy or non accuracy of data.

 

Lets move on...

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Kenneth Harrow <har...@msu.edu>

Date: 28/10/2016 19:49 (GMT+00:00)

To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

--

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

 

--

Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

 

--

Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

[Kenneth Harrow]

Great question Ibrahim.

I can imagine at least 3 answers, to start with

--the standards held by teachers in classes with assignments in English, where the teacher decides. Entirely.

--the standards held by linguists who are specialists in the language

--the standards maintained by other institutions, like journals or broadcast media, etc., who publish or use speech that they attempt to render in correct English

 

now, you could add lots to this. for instance, the language used by native English speakers.

 

Since every single one of the criteria I mention above must vary considerably (since some of us insist on between you and me, and others tolerate between you and I)

the answer has to be multiple.

 

And of course, the variants are going to be enormous from region to region. Farooq signaled this with one of my bugabears. Different from versus different than, not to mention that horrific English different to, which makes my teeth hurt.

 

Which is right?

If it is all of them, then the real answer to your question must begin with the words, depends on ….

 

And if it is going to depend on someone’s idea of an expert, then why not begin humbly and acknowledge that there are people on the listserv who actually are expert in language study (not me, I am expert in African literature and cinema), and defer to them?

But you get to choose which expert to consult, of course

ken

 

Kenneth Harrow

Dept of English and Film Studies

Michigan State University

619 Red Cedar Rd

East Lansing, MI 48824

517-803-8839

har...@msu.edu

http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/

 

[Farooq A. Kperogi]

On Sun, Oct 30, 2016 at 7:52 PM, 'M Buba' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Embedded in our (African) languages and cultures are these shared  essences - 'a person is a person through other persons' - in need of recovery. Once recovered, they could be used to organise a curriculum, for example. The Japanese are said to owe their rapid development to their awareness of such core belief, roughly translated as 'earnestness'.

The notion that indigenous epistemologies through indigenous language instruction is the only way to engender development in peripheral countries is nothing more than sentimental essentialism. It has no basis in evidence. Singapore is one of the world's most successful and prosperous nations. Although more than 70 percent of Singaporeans are ethnically and linguistically Chinese, English is the language of instruction at all levels of education in the country--courtesy of its British colonial legacy. The "foreignness" of the language of instruction in the country didn't stunt its growth. There are vast swathes of people in the world who are enormously successful and transformational even when they weren't educated in languages that are indigenous to them. Until the 17th century, most of Europe was educated in Latin, which wasn't indigenous to the people.

Universities in Italy, Germany, Israel, and in so many other countries in Europe and Asia are switching to English as the sole language of instruction in their schools (see https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012/05/21/italian-university-joins-international-colleges-embracing-english-language). I don't think people in these countries are stupid. English offers an enormous window to the vast corpus of knowledge in today's world in ways no other language does. To shut it out in the name of some vague notions of romantic linguistic nationalism would be counterproductive. Now, English won't always be the dominant language and receptacle of vast and varied systems of knowledge that it is today. The next language to have that prestige and dominance may be Itsekri or Akan or Mandarin or Hindi. When that happens, it would also be counterproductive to ignore it in the name indigenous epistemology.

Farooq

[Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju]

thanks Buba.

i will chew on this.

toyin

[Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju]

Dear Kenneth,

I'm sorry but what you describe, particularly in the very self conscious contexts of academic interaction, and among people who have spent their lives mastering the languages they use, does not match my experience.

If anything, academics speaking in academic fora, are almost magical users of language.

Could the situation be different in the US?

I would be very surprised.

With reference to African languages and English, my mother, for example, speaks Standard English, Yoruba and our native language Okpameri, very well, so well, that I have been compelled to memorize some of her Yoruba expressions gleaned from our conversations.

Another encounter I will never forget is one involving Esiri Dafiewhare, then a brillant final year student at the dept of english and litetature at the University of Benin who went on to get a f

thanks

toyin

Från: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> för Olayinka Agbetuyi <yagb...@hotmail.com>
Skickat: den 28 oktober 2016 22:14
Till: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Ämne: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Farooq, Funmi and Yona

 

 

 

As I once stated, and now with knowledge of the context for the start of this 'outright''debate I think its in bad taste to prolong it any further not because people do not have the right to pursue their research intetests, but because participant observer research requires a measure of discretion regarding period of collation of data (or fresh data) and the time and manner of presentation.  

 

To be blunt participant observer research as opposed to chemical research uses human communities as 'laboratory guinea pigs" and as such sensitivity and taste is paramount and this is a different order from accuracy or non accuracy of data.

 

Lets move on...

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Kenneth Harrow <har...@msu.edu>

Date: 28/10/2016 19:49 (GMT+00:00)

To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>

--

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Ibukunolu. A. Babajide]

Farooq Kperogi,

The snack down academician extraordinaire!  Not content to be a gatekeeper, you add smacking down to your terms of reference as the language policeman.

Cheers.

IBK

Sent from my iPhone

On 28 Oct 2016, at 10:30 PM, Farooq A. Kperogi <farooq...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks, Ken. IBK is smarting from the smack-down I gave him in a private communication over this issue, which I understand.

You see, he is lashing out because some of his settled certainties about grammar and usage were exploded after reading my column, and that caused him intense personal grief, as improbable as this may seem at first. So he is basically undergoing the famous five stages of grief: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. Don't worry: he will come round at some point.

Some people take these insignificant issues seriously. They take it as a personal affront if someone identifies usages and expressions they are wedded to as solecistic. William Safire, the late famous New York Times language columnist, often talked of the visceral reactions he received from people with puny, frail egos each time he called out common usage errors in the language that people were wedded to.

But language columnists actually have very little, if any, influence on the direction of a language. The ultimate "gate-keepers" of languages, especially of the English langue, are the schools. We all had to learn the rules of Standard English to pass exams and climb the social ladder. I teach writing and grammar to native English speakers for a living and do my "gate-keeping" in the classroom. If a student were to write "outrightly" in a writing assignment, for instance, I would circle the word and deduct a point for nonstandard usage.

However, when I write my language columns, I cherish no illusion that I am going to cause anyone to change how they use language. I write because I am paid well to do so and because hundreds of thousands of people read and enjoy my language column every week. Although I occasionally betray a prescriptivist impulse, for the most, I am a descriptivist. That's not "gate-keeping" by any definition of the word.

I have chosen to ignore IBK's unintelligent rants because I know he is just smarting from a really hurtful smack-down. IBK, pele o. The hurt will soon subside. OK? But feel free to vent some more; use all the vocabularies of derision you ever learned to insult me if that would make you feel better. I won't come after you again. Sounds good?

Farooq

Farooq A. Kperogi, Ph.D.

Associate Professor

Journalism & Emerging Media
School of Communication & Media

Social Science Building 

Room 5092 MD 2207

402 Bartow Avenue
Kennesaw State University

Kennesaw, Georgia, USA 30144
Cell: (+1) 404-573-9697
Personal website: www.farooqkperogi.com

Twitter: @farooqkperog

Author of Glocal English: The Changing Face and Forms of Nigerian English in a Global World

"The nice thing about pessimism is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised." G. F. Will

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

[Kenneth Harrow]

Hi toyin,

You know different academics from those I know. If you mean that their papers, which they read, are “magical users of language,” I would agree. If you mean they go around speaking only correct English, and that it is magical speech, well, then, …. Hmmmm. That would be magic.

ken

 

Kenneth Harrow

Dept of English and Film Studies

Michigan State University

619 Red Cedar Rd

East Lansing, MI 48824

517-803-8839

har...@msu.edu

http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/

 

From: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin....@gmail.com>
Reply-To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Monday 31 October 2016 at 02:13
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: SV: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Farooq, Funmi and Yona

 

Dear Kenneth,

Från: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> för Olayinka Agbetuyi <yagb...@hotmail.com>
Skickat: den 28 oktober 2016 22:14
Till: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Ämne: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Farooq, Funmi and Yona

 

 

 

As I once stated, and now with knowledge of the context for the start of this 'outright''debate I think its in bad taste to prolong it any further not because people do not have the right to pursue their research intetests, but because participant observer research requires a measure of discretion regarding period of collation of data (or fresh data) and the time and manner of presentation.  

 

To be blunt participant observer research as opposed to chemical research uses human communities as 'laboratory guinea pigs" and as such sensitivity and taste is paramount and this is a different order from accuracy or non accuracy of data.

 

Lets move on...

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Kenneth Harrow <har...@msu.edu>

Date: 28/10/2016 19:49 (GMT+00:00)

To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

--

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

[Emeagwali, Gloria (History)]

"Native English speakers are actually more apt to make grammatical errors than non-native speakers who study the language systematically. "

But  some days ago this is what you stated:

"No matter how good a Nigerian speaks and writes English it can never be as perfect as a born English native of England. .......................

A native of England with primary school education can write and speak better English than the best Nigerian Professor of English language because as native of England he/she is born with the language."

Do not allow naive and contradictory statements undermine your intellectual integrity.  

Gloria

'

Professor Gloria Emeagwali
History Department
CCSU. New Britain. CT 06050
africahistory.net

vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
Gloria Emeagwali's Documentaries on

Africa and the African Diaspora

---

From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Farooq A. Kperogi <farooq...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2016 5:55 PM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

[Farooq A. Kperogi]

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Emeagwali, Gloria (History) <emea...@ccsu.edu> wrote:

But  some days ago this is what you stated:

"No matter how good a Nigerian speaks and writes English it can never be as perfect as a born English native of England. .......................

A native of England with primary school education can write and speak better English than the best Nigerian Professor of English language because as native of England he/she is born with the language."

Do not allow naive and contradictory statements undermine your intellectual integrity.  

Show me exactly where I wrote that. If you can't, then admit to your dishonesty. That's not even my prose. I don't write like that. Plus, that's a crassly ignorant statement I would never make even in my sleep. "..a born English native of England." And you think I would write that? What the heck does that mean?

A little honesty won't hurt anybody. Attributing things to me that I never said just to "win" an argument is beneath contempt. 

[Mobolaji Aluko]

Gloria:

In my PhD thesis in Chemical Engineering in 1983, I had my Chinese-American advisor and three other American committee members (one more committee member than I should have had because one of them (with who I had had a spat over a racist comment) INSISTED to be on my committee, even though he was NOT an expert in my field...I leave you to guess why)

Anyway, one of the American committee members (Prof. Robert Rinker), upon reading my thesis, told me directly that it was the best written AND edited Engineering thesis in English that he had read up until that point.  I was as happy about that observation as successfully defending my thesis' oral session.

My point is that in general those who SYSTEMATICALLY learn a language do write and speak it better than those for who it is their mother-tongue, PARTICULARLY if the syntax of both languages are not too dissimilar. (Most Nigerian languages are not when compared with English.  Chinese is.)  

So Farooq cannot approbate and reprobate at the same time.

And there you have it.

Bolaji Aluko

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 7:47 PM, Emeagwali, Gloria (History) <emea...@ccsu.edu> wrote:

"Native English speakers are actually more apt to make grammatical errors than non-native speakers who study the language systematically. "

But  some days ago this is what you stated:

"No matter how good a Nigerian speaks and writes English it can never be as perfect as a born English native of England. .......................

A native of England with primary school education can write and speak better English than the best Nigerian Professor of English language because as native of England he/she is born with the language."

Do not allow naive and contradictory statements undermine your intellectual integrity.  

Gloria

'

Professor Gloria Emeagwali
History Department
CCSU. New Britain. CT 06050
africahistory.net

vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
Gloria Emeagwali's Documentaries on

Africa and the African Diaspora

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Farooq A. Kperogi <farooq...@gmail.com>

Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2016 5:55 PM

[Salimonu Kadiri]

Kenneth,

In a brawl between two persons in which you have actively sided with one of the combatants, it sounds to me as an afterthought diplomacy to declare neutrality by mimicking King Lear - Me too, I don't want to jump into a fight! Please make peace, and we can move on... (From Kenneth's post, Sunday, 30 Oct. 2016, time 6:18).

If you have forgotten, I will remind you that at 11:05 on Friday, 28 October 2016, Farooq Kperogi, among other things, wrote thus, "Ask any of your American friends or colleagues if they use "outrightly" as the adverb of "outright." May be we should ask Dr. Harrow, a professor of English and the native speaker of the language, how the word sounds to him." At 1:15 PM on Friday, 28 October 2016, Kenneth Harrow wrote in response to IBK thus, "Dear IBK, Where does Farooq say he is the sole determinant of standard English? Did I miss it?" Later on the same Friday at 19: 05 you, Kenneth Harrow,  responded to Farooq's earlier request to you for arbitration on the right use of the word "outrightly" thus, "Dear all, I never heard anyone say outrightly. ....//.... As for Farooq, he is not a gatekeeper." With your response, you actually jumped into the fight over the use of the word of "outrightly," despite the fact that the user of the word referred to the online dictionaries licensed in the US  as the authentic source of the word. After jumping into the river, you now say you don't want to be wet!! Common Kenneth, you must finish what you have started. You asked IBK where Farooq claimed to be the sole determinant of standard English and I have provided you with incontrovertible excerpts from Farooq's postings. I have always regarded you as a fair and honest person. It is because of my regard for your fairness and honesty that necessitated my request to you to take a stand, just as you did on the use of the word "outrightly," and tell us if, by virtue of the excerpts from Farooq's postings, he has claimed to be sole determinant of standard English or not. My request is not a challenge to combat with you or anybody hence, you cannot hide under the pretence of not wanting to jump into a fight but to make peace and move on in order to avoid taking a honest and fair stand on Farooq's claim to be the sole determinant of standard English.

I thank Professor Buba for his suggestion which I think is in tandem with the postulation of late Professor Babs Fafunwa that the foundation of education in Nigeria should be built first and foremost on indigenous languages. As the Yoruba saying goes, the greatest tragedy in life is to get to ones desired goal and finding it empty. Nigerians spit out fire in written and spoken English Language but their fire cannot light ordinary cigarette not to talk of generating electricity. The perfect Nigerian speakers of standard English destroyed our textile industries only to license themselves as sole importers of clothes. But for the stubborn non-English speaking Fulani herdsmen, the verbose English speaking Nigerian veterinary scientists would have turned themselves into Nigeria's importers of biffs from Europe and America. The Nigerian grammarians of English cannot refine crude oil, consequently, the crude oil exporting Nigeria has to depend on fuel import and the fuel importers are the Oxford English speaking Nigerians. Nigerian experts in English language destroyed our agriculture to the extent that Nigeria now depends on imported rice to feed her people. In every aspect of life, Nigerians are very fluent in spoken and written English but nothing functions properly in the country. 

Unlike Farooq Kperogi whose egocentric motive was to publicly upbraid fellow Nigerians for committing grammatical blunders in English language, Ayotunde Bewaji reminds us that no American has ever upbraided Donald Trump for his poor and foul use of English Language. People of England, in fact, consider the type of English spoken in  America as *cow-boy English.* That consideration has to do with how America was founded. The US as it is today, originated as a mixture of people from various European countries whose languages were different from English Language, although England was first to begin colonial settlements in America. It started with Sir Humphrey Gilbert publishing in 1576 his *Discourse to prove a passage by the North West to Cathaia and the East Indies.* Therein, he set out the advantages of establishing colonial settlements (to be inhabited by dispossessed proletarians and ex-convicts from Britain). Sir Humphrey Gilbert wrote, "We might inhabit part of those countries, and settle there such needy people of our country which now trouble the commonwealth, through want here at home are forced to commit outrageous offences, whereby they are daily consumed with the gallows." (quoted by R. Palme Dutt in The Crisis Of Britain And The British Empire, p.71) It is remarkable that the proposed colonial settlement presumed expulsion or/and extermination of the original inhabitants. In 1585, Sir Walter Raleigh established the first colony in Virginia. The American colonists from Britain were not Whig or Tory noblemen but derelict wastrels, broken men and felons who were the fittest persons to send overseas. Britain considered it better to export their mischievous and useless citizen as the best method of refining criminals. "And after 1719, under two statutes of George I," Lord Elton wrote, "several hundred convicts were shipped annually to Virginia. The Annual Register of 1766 contains a lively picture of the convicts ... passing to the waterside in order to be shipped for America ... And Georgia, the last of the thirteen colonies, was founded in 1733 by the philanthropic General James Oglethorpe expressly for the moral reformation of the inmates of English debtors, prisons, who as he put it in his Brief Account of the Establishment of Georgia, would otherwise starve and burden England. (p.94, Imperial Commonwealth By Lord Elton)." From historical accounts, the early colonial settlers in the US were British semi-literate and illiterate  criminals sentenced to banishment to the American colony. In spite of the low level of literacy among the extradited English felons to the USA, Britons constituted the majority among European colonial settlers in the USA and therefore, English became native language even for other settlers from Germany, Netherland, Poland, Italy, Sweden, Norway, Finland and others, whose original mother tongues were different from English. The above stated facts explain why American English is not pure and is quite different from the Queen's English.

As for Donald Trump poor spoken English, it would probably not matter  if he should become the US president provided he has his innate intelligence intact. The 17th President of the United States, 1865 - 1869, was a tailor apprentice and an illiterate. He got married at the age of 18 in 1827 to a 16 year old daughter of a local shoe-maker, Elizabeth Mc Cardle. Andrew Johnson's wife taught him how to read and write. Yet he was elected a Mayor, a member of Tennessee House of Representatives, a member of the US Congress where he served for ten years, 1843 - 1853. He was Governor of Tennessee between 1853 and 1857, US senator from 1857 to 1862 and military governor of his occupied Tennesse during the civil war between 1862 and 1865. On March 4, 1865, he was Vice President to Abraham Lincoln in his second term and became President 42 days later when Lincoln was assassinated. Just as the command of English language is not a requisite to be a good President so is fluency in spoken and written English language in Nigeria not a requisite for, production of irons and steels, refinery of crude oil, generation of electricity, production of potable water and building of infrastructures. Nigeria's scientific and technological developments can only evolve from our indigenous languages which to certain extents are inter-related. I am with you, Buba.  

S.Kadiri    

 

---

Från: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> för Kenneth Harrow <har...@msu.edu>
Skickat: den 30 oktober 2016 20:47
Till: usaafricadialogue
Ämne: Re: SV: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Farooq, Funmi and Yona

 

[Kenneth Harrow]

Dear salimano

Thank you for flattering me, but I don’t think flattery will really get you very far here. I do regard Farooq as an authority on English and on language; I didn’t see where he claimed any more than that, and the fight over whether a word used in Nigeria can be legitimately considered standard in the u.s. seems like a non-issue. What are we really debating here? The personality of Farooq? I have no desire to judge anyone on this list; not anyone at all, under any conditions.

Whether the u.s. stands above Nigeria in its use of English? What would the point be?

My interest, which I guess no one else takes quite as seriously, is the place of pidgin, and “English” language of sorts, that developed in Nigeria into what seems to me to be an African language. I learned a bit of it in Cameroon; my dear colleague bole butake, who just passed, wrote plays in pidgin; Nigerians of the highest literary merit, like Soyinka and achebe, have turned to it often.

My real advice is for us to move on over the debates w farooq’s place or qualifications etc. it won’t profit anyone. But if language itself is the issue, then considering the piece in the thread below, which you cite, we could profitably respond to the ngugi-like issue that an African language is the only appropriate vehicle for the expression of African culture because it is grounded in African epistemology and values. My question then is, well, if Swahili—also a creolized language—is African enough to be a national language in east Africa, what of pidgin?

What priorities continue to downvalue it? Should we not be advocating for its just place, culturally and nationally? If not, why not?

[Ibukunolu. A. Babajide]

Ken,

You play the Ostrich here.  Your man Farooq Kperogi is arrogant, uncouth and self-opinionated.  He wants to be the gatekeeper of the English language. An impossible task.  He wants to be the sole determinant of what is standard and non standard English.  He equates proficiency in English with intelligence and finally he thinks because he knows some arcane rules of English which is of little value to any one else he can denigrate our African mother tongues!

As you can see he is the completely brainwashed African whose mind is thoroughly colonised and you as a colleague owe him a duty to help him find his way down from his flight of fancy.

Nuff said for now.

Cheers.


IBK

Sent from my Windows Phone

---

From: Kenneth Harrow
Sent: ‎01/‎11/‎2016 05:51
To: usaafricadialogue
Subject: Re: SV: SV: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Farooq, Funmi and Yona

[O O]

Much of Africa burns (economically and culturally), and here we dwell day after day or even week after week on the usage or non-usage of an English word "outrightly".

[Mobolaji Aluko]

My People:

Dr ting tire man....

Honestly, we should just outrightly move on....I promise to continue to use the word episodically until it becomes standard.

Bolaji Aluko

To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>

[Farooq A. Kperogi]

Ken,

I don't get to read Salimonu Kadiri. Since about a year ago I've directed my server to automatically trash his emails. I have no patience for the incredible depth of obtuseness and ignorance that emanates from him. No one, I think, has the right to be that astonishingly clueless and still imagine himself fit to participate in discussions on a list like this. I would encourage you to ignore him. Most people on this list that I know ignore him. Others read him purely for comic relief. I personally can't stomach his comical obtuseness.

About Pidgin English. You are absolutely right that West African Pidgin English is more than 500 years old and deserves a special place in the linguistic map of Anglophone Africa. But it is also true that pidgins are by nature severely limited in their utility. They are emergency languages with limited vocabulary and poorly developed grammar that are incapable of shouldering the burden of high-minded thoughts. The very etymology of "pidgin"speaks to this germinal lingual incapacity. As you know, "pidgin" emerged from Chinese mispronunciation of "business." Pidgin English is basically "business English," which linguists have defined as a trade, contact or emergency language that coalesces a foreign, usually European, language with an indigenous language in which the indigenous language (called the substrate) provides the structure and the foreign language (called the superstrate) provides most of the vocabulary.

So pidgins are by nature transactional, even transitory, artificial, deficient in lexis and structure, not native to anybody, and therefore unsuited as languages of official communication, science, scholarship, etc. However, some pidgins morph to creoles, which means they become the native languages of people, develop a well-ordered grammar, and generate an extensive lexical repertoire--like "natural" languages. Although we are now seeing the creolization of pidgin English in Nigeria's deep south, for the most part, West African Pidgin English has had the tragedy of being stuck in prolonged infancy. It's only in Sierra Leone that it has mutated into a creole precisely because the incipient elite corps of the modern Sierra Leonean society was composed of returnee West African slaves who lost their indigenous languages after their initial forceful deterritorialization from their homelands.

In other Anglophone West African societies (with parts of Liberia being another exception) people are wedded to their indigenous language, which condemns Pidgin English to the status of a mere contact language.

Farooq

Farooq A. Kperogi, Ph.D.

Associate Professor

Journalism & Emerging Media
School of Communication & Media

Social Science Building 

Room 5092 MD 2207

402 Bartow Avenue
Kennesaw State University

Kennesaw, Georgia, USA 30144
Cell: (+1) 404-573-9697
Personal website: www.farooqkperogi.com

Twitter: @farooqkperog

Author of Glocal English: The Changing Face and Forms of Nigerian English in a Global World

"The nice thing about pessimism is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised." G. F. Will

To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>

Från: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> för Olayinka Agbetuyi <yagb...@hotmail.com>
Skickat: den 28 oktober 2016 22:14
Till: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Ämne: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Farooq, Funmi and Yona

 

 

 

As I once stated, and now with knowledge of the context for the start of this 'outright''debate I think its in bad taste to prolong it any further not because people do not have the right to pursue their research intetests, but because participant observer research requires a measure of discretion regarding period of collation of data (or fresh data) and the time and manner of presentation.  

 

To be blunt participant observer research as opposed to chemical research uses human communities as 'laboratory guinea pigs" and as such sensitivity and taste is paramount and this is a different order from accuracy or non accuracy of data.

 

Lets move on...

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Kenneth Harrow <har...@msu.edu>

Date: 28/10/2016 19:49 (GMT+00:00)

To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Farooq A. Kperogi]

On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 5:38 AM, 'O O' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Much of Africa burns (economically and culturally), and here we dwell day after day or even week after week on the usage or non-usage of an English word "outrightly".

You take yourself--and what you do here--too seriously. You think you can help Africa's cultural and economic "burns" by what you write here? Seriously? Is this listserv some supranational African government that can solve Africa's problems? Why don't people understand the scope and intent of academic conversations and stop this delusion that academic discussions can or should solve quotidian existential problems? If you want to solve Africa's problems, get off the list and go do something about it. Good luck to you!

Farooq

[Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju]

i admire this call for indigenous language expansion in public life but i wonder if its not being presented her in a manner that overblows its value.

are African countries poorly managed bcs they use colonial languages?

what has that got to do with national vision and commitment?

will using an indigenous language make politicians more patriotic?

will it prevent the greed of groups trying to take over the land of others, that being the vision of the Fulani herdsmen and their state aided terrorist agenda that has seen them massacring  Nigerians in huge numbers?

what have indigenous or any languages got to do with refusal to build the nation but focusing on using most of the nation's money in running the govt?

Nigeria's problems may be better understood as relating to a nation without a soul, an artificial entity to which there is no collective commitment.

northern Nigerian governors are reported to have gone as a group to dialogue with another nation, the US, suggesting the dominance of  linguistic-Hausa and religious-Islamic formation in the govs group, but is that really a realistic option for Nigeria as a whole?

should we not  focus on what is likely to be the core of the issue--allowing the constituent peoples decide their future, not keep running this charade in the name of a nation?

i see partly with Buba on integrating sections from African thought and values into the curriculum but would want to address this in a very critical manner.

how related are   language and indigenous cultures  to challenges in developing robust systems for building  creativity in all fields?

what have language and indigenous knowledge systems got to do with building an investment and manufacturing base to enable the maximization of the technological creativity of Nigerians, capacities demonstrated again and again even by people with little formal education?

ideas from african systems are good but will their integration necessarily imply or lead to development?

will that motivate more vigorous scholarship in Africa?

how will it impact the sciences?

what is preventing Africans now from  taking charge of their academic destiny and fashioning their own frameworks of knowledge?

must such frameworks necessarily pass through the route of indigenous language knowledge systems?

what level of attention is being given in African scholarship to  these systems, in the original languages and in translation?

why are the most visible books on African art published in the West, and written by scholars working in the West, to the best of my knowledge?

a search for the Ekpe esoteric order symbol system Nsibidi from Nigeria and Cameroon reveals that the most sophisticated information on it online comes from US scholars who come to Nigeria to do research.

the most vigorous activity on Yoruba orisa spirituality is outside Africa, to the best of my knowledge.

i am not aware of any book on the Aboriginal Ogboni, one of the most important historic institutions unifying Yorubaland and other parts of Southern Nigeria.

of the articles on Ogboni in JSTOR, the journal archive, most are by scholars based in the West, to the best of my knowledge.

the most visible work on Benin religion and its arts is by scholars based in the West, such as Nevadomsky, Charles Gore and Norma Rosen.

how will people devote themselves to ground breaking scholarship when they live in economic and political uncertainty?

does that level of scholarship not require a minimum of stability and resources, such as constant electricity, even for humanities scholars?

to what degree has the conception of higher education in the sense defined by the global dominance of Western modernity been assimilated in Africa?

i understand Nigeria's  most important export, in terms of adding value to products to be  Nollywood films, literature, the visual arts  and the performance art of music.

what role have indigenous  language or indigenous knowledge systems played in this?

are such systems sufficiently valorised in Nigeria to develop such clout?

akiwowo and others did wonderful work at then uni of ife on indigenous sociology but i wonder why it does not seem to have been sustained.

perhaps these initiatives exist in BA, MA, and PhD theses in Nigerian universities, invisible to the Internet, like Adegboeya Orangun's ground breaking work in Yoruba metaphysics, Destiny the Unmanifesrted Being is visible online but might not be available to buy leading to the field not having assimilated his work and scholars seeming to be  limited to the limited information otherwise available on the scope of human freedom recognized by various thinkers on the Yoruba concept of ori, the essence of the self.

i just think the issues are more complex and might be rooted in mentalities and social structures that have little to do with languages employed.

anyway, are Standard English and pidgin English not the only languages unifying Nigerians?

are the Romance languages not forms of pidgin left over from roman colonization in Europe?

thanks

toyin

On 1 November 2016 at 12:15, Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com> wrote:

My People:

Dr ting tire man....

Honestly, we should just outrightly move on....I promise to continue to use the word episodically until it becomes standard.

Bolaji Aluko

--

Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Cornelius Hamelberg]

I have been updating my travelogue cum my notebook on the two Kperogi language threads and intend to transfer the satirical matter to this forum when next I access a computer keyboard ina Stockholm. For once, my Bettah Half ( a veritable language buff/translator/polygot in her own right - French, German, Italian, Spanish, English, Mother tongue Swedish) has been following the discussion and says that she likes IBK
Excuse the pomposity, but it also behoves me to defend/exonerate my dear Yoruba mentor, the venerable Ogbeni Kadiri, before insult adds to injury.
In the meantime, here's some passable patois, pidgin, broken, call it what you will, being put to some "literary" use


https://www.google.com/search?q=sam+selvon+%3A+Moses+ascending&oq=Sam+Selvon+%3A+Moses+Ascending&aqs=chrome.0.69i59.2605j0j4&client=tablet-android-samsung&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

[Kenneth Harrow]

Farooq

What of the move to create literatures in pidgin, as I saw in west Cameroon? And what of the songs in pidgin? At that point I assume the language had morphed into the stage of a creole language, as you describe it.

I was wondering if there is another factor, namely prestige, the power of the educated classes, that keeps pidgin in a lower social level. What happens to pidgin in schools, for instance. In Nigeria are there any attempts to publish or to educate children in pidgin? Is Nigeria different, in that regard, than (from) Cameroon where they were publishing plays in the 70s, if not earlier. I remember hearing papers by steve arnold at the ALA on pidgin literature. And I know butake was far from alone at publishing in pidgin (as we called it). Finally, Cameroonian pidgin was recognizably different from Nigerian pidgin, but I have no idea how different, or how the southern Nigerian usage might differ from, or merely extend across the border to west Cameroon.

Along the same lines of questions, how does this differ from Swahili, born also as a pidgin but evolved into a creole. With few native speakers, but very widespread usage. There are famous writers in Swahili, in Tanzania say, like Roberts; but as I noted, the greatest Nigerian authors and poets also wrote dialogue into their works using pidgin. That makes me think it is more than a broken, purely instrumental tool, but one adaptable to literature and any other human communication.

 

Maybe it is, in fact, the model for all languages as they grew, for instance the change from latin into French?

ken

 

Kenneth Harrow

Dept of English and Film Studies

Michigan State University

619 Red Cedar Rd

East Lansing, MI 48824

517-803-8839

har...@msu.edu

http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/

 

From: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of "Farooq A. Kperogi" <farooq...@gmail.com>

Reply-To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Tuesday 1 November 2016 at 09:04
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

Från: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> för Olayinka Agbetuyi <yagb...@hotmail.com>
Skickat: den 28 oktober 2016 22:14
Till: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Ämne: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Farooq, Funmi and Yona

 

 

 

As I once stated, and now with knowledge of the context for the start of this 'outright''debate I think its in bad taste to prolong it any further not because people do not have the right to pursue their research intetests, but because participant observer research requires a measure of discretion regarding period of collation of data (or fresh data) and the time and manner of presentation.  

 

To be blunt participant observer research as opposed to chemical research uses human communities as 'laboratory guinea pigs" and as such sensitivity and taste is paramount and this is a different order from accuracy or non accuracy of data.

 

Lets move on...

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Kenneth Harrow <har...@msu.edu>

Date: 28/10/2016 19:49 (GMT+00:00)

To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

[Olayinka Agbetuyi]

All the way with you on this issue of pidgin.  It is certainly of limited utility.

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

[Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju]

Kperoqi,

Thanks for that beautiful scholarly exposition.

I get the impression, however, that  your summations on pidgin are too sweeping.

As Abiola Irele points out in "In Praise of Alienation' and as Frank Ogiomoh sums up strikingly, are the Romance languages not forms of pidgin, the remnants of the erasure of native European  languages by Roman colonization, making Dante's great Divine Comedy the first written literary work in pidgin Latin, as Ogiomoh put it? Dante waged a great and ultimately successful campaign to transform  this language from a purely everyday language to one of high art and scholarship, laying out his case in his De Vulgaria  Eloquentia, On the Vulgar Tongue,  written in Latin, the language of scholarship at the time, and  writing his epic poem Divina Commedia  in a dialect of what was then the 'vulgar tongue', which I expect was the language of the masses, thereby contributing significantly to changing its fate forever, leading to today's Italian.

I get the impression that pidgin English is here to stay in Nigeria perhaps in the form of a creole as you describe that linguistic form  bcs its  the best means through which Nigerians of various ethnicities communicate.

As for pidgins being unsuited for 'shouldering the burden of high-minded thoughts' and 'therefore unsuited as languages of official communication, science, scholarship' and "for the most part,West African Pidgin English has had the tragedy of being stuck in prolonged infancy" perhaps a more accurate picture might be represented by your summation on Nigeria's deep south,  the SS,  to Edo and Delta states, with even people from the SW and SE being good in pidgin, though the SS and former Midwest seem the most adept.

Along those lines, we could consider the increasing use of pidgin in various fields, from Yemi Alade's globe hitting Johnny dance video, to examples of telling and writing of the news in pidgin, to comic routines in pidgin.

Novel along these lines is the emergence of introductory scientific essays  in pidgin, exemplified by the essays of Tolu Adepoju

.

1. "Isaac Newton's Laws of Motion in Nigerian Pidgin English"

2. "Dalton’s Law of Partial Pressure in Nigerian Pidgin English"

3. “Matter” in Nigerian Pidgin English"

4. "Boyle’s Law in Nigerian Pidgin English"

5. "Charle’s Law in Nigerian Pidgin English"

I have also put in some effort, like Chidi Anthony Opara in this group, in writing pidgin poetry and scholarship in pidgin, translating the first book of Dante's Divine Comedy into pidgin, and presented, in pidgin,  Abiola Irele's magnificent   exposition on the cosmological symbolism of the forest in Yoruba thought from his " Tradition and the African Writer : Fagunwa, Tutuola and Soyinka".

My linguistic competence runs, in descending order, from Standard English, my first language, to pidgin, to Yoruba and then to Okpameri, the language of my village, Imoga.

How representative are these summations?

I wonder.

toyin

[Kenneth Harrow]

Thanks for this intervention, toyin

First, for dante’s divine commedia. I spent a year studying that text as an undergrad. Non-latin romance languages were “vulgate,” but not in any sense inferior to the more highly regarded latin. The literary class was generally the priesthood, and they still used latin in their writings. However, the romance languages by then were certainly full-blown independent languages, and vehicles for any kind of linguistic creativity as much as latin—or more, since they were living languages. No one went around speaking latin, except in scholastic, church settings.

 

Thus my question about pidgin. After all these years, it must have become more than a trade language, and, as so many indicate, now a creole language with people, like those speaking Swahili, growing up in households in which it is used.

 

A last point. I was at the dept of English in Senegal when French was used for the ph.d. dissertation, and students were held to the highest degree of literacy in their writing of their dissertations. I didn’t say much, but it seems to me that that is/was (now was, I think) as much an aberration, due to political pressures, as the retention of latin for scholastic scholarship in the middle ages and renaissance.

Not, what about pidgin? Isn’t it now in something closer to that position of the European vulgates? And more to my point, isn’t it an African language?

If it is not, what is American English supposed to be? A European language?

I can say I speak English, and so do the English. I can’t say I speak a variant of their language since my English and theirs both changed simultaneously, away from an earlier common language. What is pidgin, then? What is Swahili?

ken

 

Kenneth Harrow

Dept of English and Film Studies

Michigan State University

619 Red Cedar Rd

East Lansing, MI 48824

517-803-8839

har...@msu.edu

http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/

 

From: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin....@gmail.com>

Reply-To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Tuesday 1 November 2016 at 10:59
To: usaafricadialogue <USAAfric...@googlegroups.com>

To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

 

--

Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

[Ibrahim Abdullah]

"It is only in Sierra Leone that it has mutated into a creole  precisely because the incipient elite corps of the modern Sierra Leone society was composed of returnee West African slaves who lost their indigenous languages after their initial forceful deterritorialisation from their homelands."

The captives who were settled in nineteenth century Freetown still spoke their indigenous languages--more than sixty African languages were spoken in mid-nineteenth century Freetown.   But the most dominant were those languages that came to coalesce around Oyo Yoruba: yagba; egba; ekiti; ijebu; ejesha et al. Ajayi Crowther gave his inaugural address in Yoruba; most community meetings in nineteenth century Freetown were conducted in Yoruba. Creoles/Creoledom was a twentieth century invention by the descendants of original captives who had lost their language. Those who still retained their language carved a separate identity for themselves: Oku/Aku.

Sent from my iPad

[Olayinka Agbetuyi]

The reason pidgin cannot be compared to Swahili in evolutionary trend and usage is that swahili evolved from existing languages in East Africa in organic fusion with the languages of Asians who immigrated to East Africa.

Pidgin does not serve the same role. It was brought fully formed into Nigeriosphere without sufficient but smatterings of Yoruba, almost non existent Hausa and smatterings of Igbo and minority languages.
Hausa and Yoruba had begun the rudimentary fusions we speak about before colonialism following hundreds of years of economic and religious interractions. It is by promoting multiple national languages in Nigeria that the journey toward Nigeria's own ' Swahili' can earnestly begin

[Farooq A. Kperogi]

On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Ibrahim Abdullah <ibdu...@gmail.com> wrote:

Creoles/Creoledom was a twentieth century invention by the descendants of original captives who had lost their language. Those who still retained their language carved a separate identity for themselves: Oku/Aku.

Thanks, Professor Abdullah. But how did that happen? Why didn't the original captives pass on their languages to their children? I am curious. Has anyone studied this? 

[Farooq A. Kperogi]

On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 10:59 AM, Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin....@gmail.com> wrote:

As Abiola Irele points out in "In Praise of Alienation' and as Frank Ogiomoh sums up strikingly, are the Romance languages not forms of pidgin, the remnants of the erasure of native European  languages by Roman colonization, making Dante's great Divine Comedy the first written literary work in pidgin Latin, as Ogiomoh put it? Dante waged a great and ultimately successful campaign to transform  this language from a purely everyday language to one of high art and scholarship, laying out his case in his De Vulgaria  Eloquentia, On the Vulgar Tongue,  written in Latin, the language of scholarship at the time, and  writing his epic poem Divina Commedia  in a dialect of what was then the 'vulgar tongue', which I expect was the language of the masses, thereby contributing significantly to changing its fate forever, leading to today's Italian.

Are Romance languages like French, Portuguese, Spanish, Italian, etc. also pidgins? Of course not. They are so-called Vulgar Latin, the previously nonstandard forms of Latin, which later became standardized with the rise of linguistic nationalisms. To have a pidgin, at least in the classical conception of the term, you need the confluence of an indigenous language and a foreign language.

[Farooq A. Kperogi]

Ken,

Literature in Pidgin English? Interesting. But I frankly wonder about the quality of literature that can be produced in Pidgin English. There is an intrinsic risible quality to (Nigerian) Pidgin English that would make the production of serious literature in it an enormous effort--to put it nicely. I am curious about what sort of literature has been produced in Cameroonian Pidgin English, which is actually mutually intelligible with Nigerian Pidgin English because of geographic proximity and shared linguistic ancestry.

I once did a comparison of news written in (standard) Nigerian English and news written in Nigerian Pidgin English. I was distressed by the result. Nigerian Pidgin English, I found out, was structurally incapable of rising superior to what I call semantic buffoonery even in contexts that called for sobriety. For example, "he died" is rendered as "he don kpeme," "he don kaput," "he don yamutu," depending on where the Pidgin was spoken. In essence, all translations of "die" in Nigerian Pidgin English induce inappropriate hilarity. So I think the language lacks the kind of pragmatic options that "naturally" evolved languages possess. If I wanted to be hilarious and irreverent in Standard English, for instance, I could say something like, "he kicked the bucket." If I wanted to be dispassionate and clinical, I could say he "died." If I wanted to be euphemistic, I could say, "he passed (away)" or "he transitioned to the great beyond," etc. (Nigerian) Pidgin English offers no such semantic and pragmatic subtleties and options.

Why is that important in a discussion on the utility of pidgin for literature? Well,  it's because literature feeds on the semantic, pragmatic, and lexical richness of language. Pidgins, in my opinion, don't have the linguistic resources to sustain elevated fictional writing. Of course, one can interlard literary writing in English with Pidgin English expressions to lend local color to one's writing, like Soyinka and others do. But to write literature exclusively in Pidgin English? Let me just say that would be really interesting.

Nigerian Pidgin English may well evolve, as I pointed out earlier. But there at least three impediments to this. The first is the low position of Pidgin English on the linguistic totem pole, which you mentioned. It is often derided as debased, uneducated English, and this sentiment is encapsulated in the fact that "Pidgin English" and "broken English" are often interchanged in Nigerian English even though they are different.

Second, outside of Nigeria's deep south, most Nigerians have deep emotional investment in their native languages and are unlikely to be persuaded to see Pidgin English as anything other than a transitory contact language. That's why Pidgin English isn't popular in Nigeria's extreme north where Hausa is indigenous. It's barely present in Nigeria's central states (except in state capitals) where vast linguistic plurality and colonial language policy ensures that Hausa is the lingua franca. (In central states like Kwara, where I come from, Benue, and Kogi, Hausa isn't a lingua franca because people there have strong loyalties to their languages). Outside of Lagos, Pidgin English isn't widely spread in Nigeria's southwest because of the overwhelming influence of Yoruba.

Third, (Nigerian) Pidgin English emerged in orality and is stuck in it. It lacks a standard orthography. That's why there are vastly different ways of writing it. This makes writing literature in it, at least for now, difficult.

Now, is Swahili similar to Pidgin English? I think not. Although it's the product of the fusion of indigenous East African languages and Middle Eastern languages like Arabic and Persian, it has been creolized for hundreds of years now, and vast corpora of literature have been written in it, as you've pointed out. It has a standardized orthography and benefits from extensive state support. In fact, many linguists don't classify Swahili as a creole; they say it's a legitimate, "natural" Bantu language that merely extensively borrowed vocabularies from Arabic and Farsi. I disagree, but I am not a professional linguist, so I defer to what the experts have said.

Farooq 

Farooq A. Kperogi, Ph.D.

Associate Professor

Journalism & Emerging Media
School of Communication & Media

Social Science Building 

Room 5092 MD 2207

402 Bartow Avenue
Kennesaw State University

Kennesaw, Georgia, USA 30144
Cell: (+1) 404-573-9697
Personal website: www.farooqkperogi.com

Twitter: @farooqkperog

Author of Glocal English: The Changing Face and Forms of Nigerian English in a Global World

"The nice thing about pessimism is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised." G. F. Will

To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>

To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Olayinka Agbetuyi]

Pls no get disres and come quench o! We no wan call ambulance o! (And there you have the necessarily present hilarity component of pidgin well demonstrated).

--

Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

[Emeagwali, Gloria (History)]

 

First of all,  let me say that,  in error,  I attributed to you a statement made by someone else.  I went back to previous emails and discovered the mistake.

If you believe that I deliberately cited it to  "dishonestly" make a point, so be it. But this is not what  actually occurred.

The fact is that there is so much irrationality in your discussions that there is no need for me to fake it. 

Your intransigence about  what is correct and what is not,  and your disdain against  linguistic systems spoken by millions of people around the world,   have convinced me that although the citation was an error, in this case, the  overall conclusion I came to was 100% appropriate.

I advise you to look at the work of  Dr. Michel De Graff, Professor of Linguistics at MIT who has taken a more respectful position to pidgins and creoles. At the center of his research is a recognition  and appreciation of the full potential of these linguistic systems. 

Gloria Emeagwali

Professor Gloria Emeagwali
History Department
CCSU. New Britain. CT 06050
africahistory.net

vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
Gloria Emeagwali's Documentaries on

Africa and the African Diaspora

From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Farooq A. Kperogi <farooq...@gmail.com>

Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 3:27 PM

To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: SV: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Farooq, Funmi and Yona

[Kenneth Harrow]

Is this really true? Pidgin evolved as a trade languge; it is spoken over a vast area, and has been spoken for how long? Farooq said 500 years.

How much longer was Swahili being formed? The arab traders didn’t come that much earlier. It was also a coastal trade language. Both pidgin and Swahili emerged as trade languages from the intermingling of outsiders, traders, and locals. Your description of “existing languages” doesn’t make sense to me: there were existing languages in the same sense on both coasts of Africa; “brought fully formed into the nigeriosphere”?? what is that. Where do you think it came from? Wasn’t it a trading language used all up and down the w afr coast? And then brought inland? Hundreds of years of interactions—sure, on both sides.

Perhaps a distinction is that Swahili was built on a different grammar? A bantu, not a European grammar? Is that a real difference? I don’t know Swahili well enough for that. But I do know the history of arab trade, and there the argument for difference is not really convincing.

As for settlers, converts, people who used pidgin, well I assume most people on the list know enough about that.

Lastly, it is there. apparently less widespread in Nigeria than other w afr countries, for reasons cited by Farooq. It might be of interest to compare its presence in e Nigeria w west Cameroon, and see in the whole region a broader body of native speakers, and thus a larger cultural impact. If that is so, there are surely ways to express “he died” in all the registers we find in English.

ken

 

Kenneth Harrow

Dept of English and Film Studies

Michigan State University

619 Red Cedar Rd

East Lansing, MI 48824

517-803-8839

har...@msu.edu

http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/

 

[Salimonu Kadiri]

Dear Kenneto,

I did not flatter you as you assumed because I have nothing to gain from you personally by doing so. Telling you that you used to be fair and honest but not in this case concerning the use of the word "outrightly" as contained in your posts of Friday, 28 October 2016 at 13:15 and 19:05 respectively is not flattery. "I have no desire to judge anyone on this list; not at all, under any conditions," you wrote. On the contrary, you did judge Professor Aluko on Friday, 28 October 2016, at 19:05 when you wrote, "Dear all, I never had anyone say outrightly. As for Farooq, he is not a gatekeeper." On the same day at 13:15 you wrote, "Dear IBK,Where does Farooq say he is the sole determinant of standard English? Did I miss it?" With all these facts at your disposal, it will be unfair and dishonest of you to still maintain that Farooq did not claim to be the gatekeeper of standard English which is a great departure from my experience of you as a fair and honest person. My demand from you is not different from what is stated in Leviticus 19:15, "Do not pervert justice, do not show partiality to the poor or favouritism to the great; but judge your neighbour fairly."

S.Kadiri  
 

---

Från: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> för Kenneth Harrow <har...@msu.edu>

Skickat: den 1 november 2016 02:50
Till: usaafricadialogue
Ämne: Re: SV: SV: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Farooq, Funmi and Yona

 

[Ibrahim Abdullah]

The colonial project was totally anti-modern. Shedding your Africaness was the pathway to westernisation and eventual creolisation—a mixture of mixture as Bylden called. Ajayi Crowther fought against this and was recalled. I am currently grappling with this reality now: nineteenth century Freetown and the non-existence of Creole as a people and Creole as a language—questioning conventional wisdom. Both the language and people were invented in the twentieth century.

But then the Creole nationalists decided to call it KRIO in the early 80s: they dropped the (C)reole and claimed the (K)rio as their ethnicity. 

[Kenneth Harrow]

I’ve always been baffled how the french wound up speaking French instead of a Germanic language derived from Frankish, or gaulois. Wouldn’t French have been at least somewhat a creole language engaging those two people? The roman contingent of their population was in the minority, yet after the 5^th c their language replaced gaulois and Frankish.

It’s been explained to me how that happened, but I still remain baffled.

ken

 

Kenneth Harrow

Dept of English and Film Studies

Michigan State University

619 Red Cedar Rd

East Lansing, MI 48824

517-803-8839

har...@msu.edu

http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/

 

From: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of "Farooq A. Kperogi" <farooq...@gmail.com>

Reply-To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Tuesday 1 November 2016 at 18:18
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

--

Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

[Kenneth Harrow]

Thanks for the detailed reply, Farooq. In the end, I imagine we’d need someone who works w pidgin literature to chime in. and I wonder, too, if it has become a creole language, as you said in some regions anyway, what we do about naming it, since “pidgin” means apparently two things—the rude trade language, and a language now spoken by native speakers of the language who have evolved it into a proper language.

ken

 

Kenneth Harrow

Dept of English and Film Studies

Michigan State University

619 Red Cedar Rd

East Lansing, MI 48824

517-803-8839

har...@msu.edu

http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/

 

From: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of "Farooq A. Kperogi" <farooq...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Tuesday 1 November 2016 at 18:05
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: SV: SV: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Farooq, Funmi and Yona

 

Ken,

 

Literature in Pidgin English? Interesting. But I frankly wonder about the quality of literature that can be produced in Pidgin English. There is an intrinsic risible quality to (Nigerian) Pidgin English that would make the production of serious literature in it an enormous effort--to put it nicely. I am curious about what sort of literature has been produced in Cameroonian Pidgin English, which is actually mutually intelligible with Nigerian Pidgin English because of geographic proximity and shared linguistic ancestry.

To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

[ジョン フィリップス]

There’s a myth that Swahili is a kind of pidgin Arabic. It’s a full fledged Bantu language with a complicated noun class system like other Bantu languages. The recent spread of Bantu languages from west to east has been dealt with by Ehret and others in recent publications about the Bantu expansion. Swahili has a lot of Arabic loan words, of course, as do other languages in the Islamic world.

The parallel with Swahili in west Africa in terms of size and spread is probably Hausa, another trade diaspora language with more second language speakers than native speakers. Like Swahili it also has many Arabic loanwords from being part of the Islamic world.

[ジョン フィリップス]

French has been called pidgin Latin but it’s actually more mumbled Latin. You have to mumble it just right or they don’t listen to you, though.

I have always suspected that they (and other Roman peoples) followed assimilation policies in their colonies because they had been forcibly assimilated themselves. The Romans were brutal, but anyone could become Roman, and after a few generations they were proudly Roman. Horace was the son of a Greek slave and Terence was an African slave himself. Americans have been called the new Romans for assimilating so many people, but we have a legacy of racism confused with out slavery which the Romans didn’t.

How did Roman languages survive the barbarian migrations in so much of the old empire?

I think the idea of “mother tongue” may be relevant here. It’s more obvious in Iberia, where a Visigothic surname with a Roman mother tongue is typical. Later in Ireland its better documented how Oliver Cromwell tried to push the Irish into Connaught as the Britons had been pushed back into Wales, but he sent no women, the settlers married (or took) Irish natives and within a generation or so the people were as Gaelic speaking as ever.

[Olayinka Agbetuyi]

Well, it certainly wasnt formed out of Yoruba or Hausa as one of the contributors has explained but alongside them by people who have lost their original African languages due to the slave trade. For sure it took very little of Yoruba syntax or vocab as is the case of Hauss & Yoruba.

[Abdul Salau]

So called Arab loan words in Hausa and Kiswahili are  themselves Ancient Egyptian  loan words borrowed into Arabic

Ancient  Egyptian                      Arabic                    English

  

Abdw                                         Abdul                     Name in Ancient  Egyptian old kingdom

Dw3                                            Dw3                      Prayer

Baraka                                       Baraka                   Blessing

Abd month                                 Abdada.                 In Egyptian it means a month Arabic for ever

Fitina                                         Fitina                      Problems

Neb.Nebt                                   Nabi                       Means lord in Egyptian and  Prophet in Arabic

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 4:57 AM, ジョン　フィリップス <phi...@hirosaki-u.ac.jp> wrote:

French has been called pidgin Latin but it’s actually more mumbled Latin. You have to mumble it just right or they don’t listen to you, though.

I have always suspected that they (and other Roman peoples) followed assimilation policies in their colonies because they had been forcibly assimilated themselves. The Romans were brutal, but anyone could become Roman, and after a few generations they were proudly Roman. Horace was the son of a Greek slave and Terence was an African slave himself. Americans have been called the new Romans for assimilating so many people, but we have a legacy of racism confused with out slavery which the Romans didn’t.

How did Roman languages survive the barbarian migrations in so much of the old empire?

I think the idea of “mother tongue” may be relevant here. It’s more obvious in Iberia, where a Visigothic surname with a Roman mother tongue is typical. Later in Ireland its better documented how Oliver Cromwell tried to push the Irish into Connaught as the Britons had been pushed back into Wales, but he sent no women, the settlers married (or took) Irish natives and within a generation or so the people were as Gaelic speaking as ever.

> On Nov 2, 2016, at 9:59 AM, Kenneth Harrow <har...@msu.edu> wrote:
>
> I’ve always been baffled how the french wound up speaking French instead of a Germanic language derived from Frankish, or gaulois. Wouldn’t French have been at least somewhat a creole language engaging those two people? The roman contingent of their population was in the minority, yet after the 5th c their language replaced gaulois and Frankish.
> It’s been explained to me how that happened, but I still remain baffled.
> ken
>
> Kenneth Harrow
> Dept of English and Film Studies
> Michigan State University
> 619 Red Cedar Rd
> East Lansing, MI 48824
> 517-803-8839
> har...@msu.edu
> http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/
>

> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
> To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

> Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
> Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
>
> --
> Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
> To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

> Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
> Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Emeagwali, Gloria (History)]

Is Baba on that list too?

Professor Gloria Emeagwali
History Department
CCSU. New Britain. CT 06050
africahistory.net

vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
Gloria Emeagwali's Documentaries on

Africa and the African Diaspora

---

From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Abdul Salau <salau...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 4:38 AM
To: toyin
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Farooq, Funmi and Yona

 

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

[Emeagwali, Gloria (History)]

Agreed. I would say that English and Spanish also have Arabic loan words.

We can start off with cheque.......and in Spanish most of the words starting with" al"

such as algodon etc. Don't know about French.

Professor Gloria Emeagwali
History Department
CCSU. New Britain. CT 06050
africahistory.net

vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
Gloria Emeagwali's Documentaries on

Africa and the African Diaspora

---

From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of ジョン　フィリップス <phi...@hirosaki-u.ac.jp>
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 12:03 AM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Farooq, Funmi and Yona

There’s a myth that Swahili is a kind of pidgin Arabic. It’s a full fledged Bantu language with a complicated noun class system like other Bantu languages. The recent spread of Bantu languages from west to east has been dealt with by Ehret and others in recent publications about the Bantu expansion. Swahili has a lot of Arabic loan words, of course, as do other languages in the Islamic world.

The parallel with Swahili in west Africa in terms of size and spread is probably Hausa, another trade diaspora language with more second language speakers than native speakers. Like Swahili it also has many Arabic loanwords from being part of the Islamic world.


> On Nov 2, 2016, at 10:49 AM, Kenneth Harrow <har...@msu.edu> wrote:
>
> Is this really true? Pidgin evolved as a trade languge; it is spoken over a vast area, and has been spoken for how long? Farooq said 500 years.
> How much longer was Swahili being formed? The arab traders didn’t come that much earlier. It was also a coastal trade language. Both pidgin and Swahili emerged as trade languages from the intermingling of outsiders, traders, and locals. Your description of “existing languages” doesn’t make sense to me: there were existing languages in the same sense on both coasts of Africa; “brought fully formed into the nigeriosphere”?? what is that. Where do you think it came from? Wasn’t it a trading language used all up and down the w afr coast? And then brought inland? Hundreds of years of interactions—sure, on both sides.
> Perhaps a distinction is that Swahili was built on a different grammar? A bantu, not a European grammar? Is that a real difference? I don’t know Swahili well enough for that. But I do know the history of arab trade, and there the argument for difference is not really convincing.
> As for settlers, converts, people who used pidgin, well I assume most people on the list know enough about that.
> Lastly, it is there. apparently less widespread in Nigeria than other w afr countries, for reasons cited by Farooq. It might be of interest to compare its presence in e Nigeria w west Cameroon, and see in the whole region a broader body of native speakers, and thus a larger cultural impact. If that is so, there are surely ways to express “he died” in all the registers we find in English.
> ken
> 
> Kenneth Harrow
> Dept of English and Film Studies
> Michigan State University
> 619 Red Cedar Rd
> East Lansing, MI 48824
> 517-803-8839
> har...@msu.edu

> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.english.msu.edu%2Fpeople%2Ffaculty%2Fkenneth-harrow%2F&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=BxAU4E3X0XfseSI8Wmro%2FhHKdspsJI3JtejqdADROAA%3D&reserved=0

> 
> From: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Olayinka Agbetuyi <yagb...@hotmail.com>
> Reply-To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
> Date: Tuesday 1 November 2016 at 16:40
> To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: SV: SV: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Farooq, Funmi and Yona
> 
> The reason pidgin cannot be compared to Swahili in evolutionary trend and usage is that swahili evolved from existing languages in East Africa in organic fusion with the languages of Asians who immigrated to East Africa.
>
> Pidgin does not serve the same role. It was brought fully formed into Nigeriosphere without sufficient but smatterings of Yoruba, almost non existent Hausa and smatterings of Igbo and minority languages.
> Hausa and Yoruba had begun the rudimentary fusions we speak about before colonialism following hundreds of years of economic and religious interractions. It is by promoting multiple national languages in Nigeria that the journey toward Nigeria's own ' Swahili' can earnestly begin
>
> On 1 Nov 2016 17:34, Kenneth Harrow <har...@msu.edu> wrote:
>> Thanks for this intervention, toyin
>>
>> First, for dante’s divine commedia. I spent a year studying that text as an undergrad. Non-latin romance languages were “vulgate,” but not in any sense inferior to the more highly regarded latin. The literary class was generally the priesthood, and they still used latin in their writings. However, the romance languages by then were certainly full-blown independent languages, and vehicles for any kind of linguistic creativity as much as latin—or more, since they were living languages. No one went around speaking latin, except in scholastic, church settings.
>>
>> 
>>
>> Thus my question about pidgin. After all these years, it must have become more than a trade language, and, as so many indicate, now a creole language with people, like those speaking Swahili, growing up in households in which it is used.
>>
>> 
>>
>> A last point. I was at the dept of English in Senegal when French was used for the ph.d. dissertation, and students were held to the highest degree of literacy in their writing of their dissertations. I didn’t say much, but it seems to me that that is/was (now was, I think) as much an aberration, due to political pressures, as the retention of latin for scholastic scholarship in the middle ages and renaissance.
>>
>> Not, what about pidgin? Isn’t it now in something closer to that position of the European vulgates? And more to my point, isn’t it an African language?
>>
>> If it is not, what is American English supposed to be? A European language?
>>
>> I can say I speak English, and so do the English. I can’t say I speak a variant of their language since my English and theirs both changed simultaneously, away from an earlier common language. What is pidgin, then? What is Swahili?
>>
>> ken
>>
>> 
>>
>> Kenneth Harrow
>>
>> Dept of English and Film Studies
>>
>> Michigan State University
>>
>> 619 Red Cedar Rd
>>
>> East Lansing, MI 48824
>>
>> 517-803-8839
>>
>> har...@msu.edu
>>

>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.english.msu.edu%2Fpeople%2Ffaculty%2Fkenneth-harrow%2F&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=BxAU4E3X0XfseSI8Wmro%2FhHKdspsJI3JtejqdADROAA%3D&reserved=0

>>> Personal website: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.farooqkperogi.com&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=1b8gwnAIw1sNFiRVrBDtYiG4DNM45NCXENM%2FWTKsjdA%3D&reserved=0

>>>
>>> Twitter: @farooqkperog
>>>
>>> Author of Glocal English: The Changing Face and Forms of Nigerian English in a Global World
>>>
>>> "The nice thing about pessimism is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised." G. F. Will
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 9:50 PM, Kenneth Harrow <har...@msu.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear salimano
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for flattering me, but I don’t think flattery will really get you very far here. I do regard Farooq as an authority on English and on language; I didn’t see where he claimed any more than that, and the fight over whether a word used in Nigeria can be legitimately considered standard in the u.s. seems like a non-issue. What are we really debating here? The personality of Farooq? I have no desire to judge anyone on this list; not anyone at all, under any conditions.
>>>>
>>>> Whether the u.s. stands above Nigeria in its use of English? What would the point be?
>>>>
>>>> My interest, which I guess no one else takes quite as seriously, is the place of pidgin, and “English” language of sorts, that developed in Nigeria into what seems to me to be an African language. I learned a bit of it in Cameroon; my dear colleague bole butake, who just passed, wrote plays in pidgin; Nigerians of the highest literary merit, like Soyinka and achebe, have turned to it often.
>>>>
>>>> My real advice is for us to move on over the debates w farooq’s place or qualifications etc. it won’t profit anyone. But if language itself is the issue, then considering the piece in the thread below, which you cite, we could profitably respond to the ngugi-like issue that an African language is the only appropriate vehicle for the expression of African culture because it is grounded in African epistemology and values. My question then is, well, if Swahili—also a creolized language—is African enough to be a national language in east Africa, what of pidgin?
>>>>
>>>> What priorities continue to downvalue it? Should we not be advocating for its just place, culturally and nationally? If not, why not?
>>>>
>>>> ken
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> Kenneth Harrow
>>>>
>>>> Dept of English and Film Studies
>>>>
>>>> Michigan State University
>>>>
>>>> 619 Red Cedar Rd
>>>>
>>>> East Lansing, MI 48824
>>>>
>>>> 517-803-8839
>>>>
>>>> har...@msu.edu
>>>>

>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.english.msu.edu%2Fpeople%2Ffaculty%2Fkenneth-harrow%2F&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=BxAU4E3X0XfseSI8Wmro%2FhHKdspsJI3JtejqdADROAA%3D&reserved=0

>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.english.msu.edu%2Fpeople%2Ffaculty%2Fkenneth-harrow%2F&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=BxAU4E3X0XfseSI8Wmro%2FhHKdspsJI3JtejqdADROAA%3D&reserved=0

>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> From: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Olayinka Agbetuyi <yagb...@hotmail.com>
>>>> Reply-To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
>>>> Date: Sunday 30 October 2016 at 15:11
>>>> To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: SV: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Farooq, Funmi and Yona
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> You are absolutely right Ken. To put it another way when taking my ESOL teaching qualifications I was told that educated Africans sounded stilted when speaking precisely because they tended to speak the ' correct' English 'bookish' version of English devoid of the ellisions and contractions that charactetize normal native spoken English (It is the total flow these that is called intonation and the exact variable characteristics of these constitute what is referred to as regional accents, or, better regional intonation.)
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> -------- Original message --------
>>>>
>>>> From: Kenneth Harrow <har...@msu.edu>
>>>>
>>>> Date: 30/10/2016 17:44 (GMT+00:00)
>>>>
>>>> To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: SV: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Farooq, Funmi and Yona
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> No, because when we speak we run the words and sounds together. Just listen to yourself and others; we slur our way through words; we elide and collapse words. We don’t always  match the proper subj and number with the verb.
>>>>
>>>> We are communicating, not printing speech. And most of all, with intonation we create meaning that words, without sound, can’t quite capture.
>>>>
>>>> That is my impression, anyway.
>>>>
>>>> I am talking about conversational speech; not written texts.
>>>>
>>>> ken
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> Kenneth Harrow
>>>>
>>>> Dept of English and Film Studies
>>>>
>>>> Michigan State University
>>>>
>>>> 619 Red Cedar Rd
>>>>
>>>> East Lansing, MI 48824
>>>>
>>>> 517-803-8839
>>>>
>>>> har...@msu.edu
>>>>

>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.english.msu.edu%2Fpeople%2Ffaculty%2Fkenneth-harrow%2F&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=BxAU4E3X0XfseSI8Wmro%2FhHKdspsJI3JtejqdADROAA%3D&reserved=0

>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> From: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin....@gmail.com>
>>>> Reply-To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
>>>> Date: Sunday 30 October 2016 at 11:51
>>>> To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: SV: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Farooq, Funmi and Yona
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> k
>>>>
>>>> enneth harrow,
>>>>
>>>> are you not exaggerating?
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> toyin
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> On 30 October 2016 at 15:39, Kenneth Harrow <har...@msu.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Tunde, I try not to listen to trump. But I think we need to distinguish two things: one is “correct” standard English, which we can read in formal exposition, and then spoken English.
>>>>>
>>>>> Believe me, no one speaks “correct” English.
>>>>>
>>>>> I once edited a series of talks given at the Afr Lit Assn, including those of gates and said and other luminaries.
>>>>>
>>>>> Believe me, no one speaks “correct” English!
>>>>>
>>>>> ken
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>> Kenneth Harrow
>>>>>
>>>>> Dept of English and Film Studies
>>>>>
>>>>> Michigan State University
>>>>>
>>>>> 619 Red Cedar Rd
>>>>>
>>>>> East Lansing, MI 48824
>>>>>
>>>>> 517-803-8839
>>>>>
>>>>> har...@msu.edu
>>>>>

>>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.english.msu.edu%2Fpeople%2Ffaculty%2Fkenneth-harrow%2F&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=BxAU4E3X0XfseSI8Wmro%2FhHKdspsJI3JtejqdADROAA%3D&reserved=0

>>>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.english.msu.edu%2Fpeople%2Ffaculty%2Fkenneth-harrow%2F&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=BxAU4E3X0XfseSI8Wmro%2FhHKdspsJI3JtejqdADROAA%3D&reserved=0

>>>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.english.msu.edu%2Fpeople%2Ffaculty%2Fkenneth-harrow%2F&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=BxAU4E3X0XfseSI8Wmro%2FhHKdspsJI3JtejqdADROAA%3D&reserved=0

>>>>>>> Personal website: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.farooqkperogi.com&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=1b8gwnAIw1sNFiRVrBDtYiG4DNM45NCXENM%2FWTKsjdA%3D&reserved=0

>>>>>>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsites.utexas.edu%2Fyoruba-studies-review%2F&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=KFVamHhaWP%2Ba522Y0zvkVazFrtZGQewVtshsojP9bXI%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.toyinfalola.com&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=XBvobKiFxfgX4SedMNbR3uBFBmm0kQRZu66aPhUIRdQ%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.utexas.edu%2Fconferences%2Fafrica&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=yXDTSLZP1EJlB4HbKQv80f8%2BRwEkrfW82Ka353UPvzQ%3D&reserved=0 
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fgroup%2Fyorubaaffairs&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=6CY%2BgVKD0FQRg2r7sk2yNHxx8F1M0Q4hE3lRVOKHZmk%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fgroup%2FUSAAfricaDialogue&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ZNgeiSrHu3tQBJCGLPa06atAHaS2XiCNlvHcrHtyIsY%3D&reserved=0  

>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>> To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

>>>>>>>>> Current archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fgroup%2FUSAAfricaDialogue&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ZNgeiSrHu3tQBJCGLPa06atAHaS2XiCNlvHcrHtyIsY%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>>>> Early archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.utexas.edu%2Fconferences%2Fafrica%2Fads%2Findex.html&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ny3%2BQr5revhd%2F5PIyys0KypAPVOdb427lCEQqbFTpN0%3D&reserved=0

>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Foptout&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=BTiYcrZqJKhnla8OP8sAhtNtRIm0vLeuasuoJKrSyE8%3D&reserved=0.

>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>> To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

>>>>>>>> Current archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fgroup%2FUSAAfricaDialogue&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ZNgeiSrHu3tQBJCGLPa06atAHaS2XiCNlvHcrHtyIsY%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>>> Early archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.utexas.edu%2Fconferences%2Fafrica%2Fads%2Findex.html&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ny3%2BQr5revhd%2F5PIyys0KypAPVOdb427lCEQqbFTpN0%3D&reserved=0

>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Foptout&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=BTiYcrZqJKhnla8OP8sAhtNtRIm0vLeuasuoJKrSyE8%3D&reserved=0.

>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
>>>>>>> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>> To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

>>>>>>> Current archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fgroup%2FUSAAfricaDialogue&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ZNgeiSrHu3tQBJCGLPa06atAHaS2XiCNlvHcrHtyIsY%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>> Early archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.utexas.edu%2Fconferences%2Fafrica%2Fads%2Findex.html&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ny3%2BQr5revhd%2F5PIyys0KypAPVOdb427lCEQqbFTpN0%3D&reserved=0

>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Foptout&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=BTiYcrZqJKhnla8OP8sAhtNtRIm0vLeuasuoJKrSyE8%3D&reserved=0.

>>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
>>>>>> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
>>>>>> To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

>>>>>> Current archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fgroup%2FUSAAfricaDialogue&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ZNgeiSrHu3tQBJCGLPa06atAHaS2XiCNlvHcrHtyIsY%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>> Early archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.utexas.edu%2Fconferences%2Fafrica%2Fads%2Findex.html&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ny3%2BQr5revhd%2F5PIyys0KypAPVOdb427lCEQqbFTpN0%3D&reserved=0

>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

>>>>>> For more options, visit https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Foptout&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=BTiYcrZqJKhnla8OP8sAhtNtRIm0vLeuasuoJKrSyE8%3D&reserved=0.

>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
>>>>>> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
>>>>>> To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

>>>>>> Current archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fgroup%2FUSAAfricaDialogue&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ZNgeiSrHu3tQBJCGLPa06atAHaS2XiCNlvHcrHtyIsY%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>> Early archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.utexas.edu%2Fconferences%2Fafrica%2Fads%2Findex.html&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ny3%2BQr5revhd%2F5PIyys0KypAPVOdb427lCEQqbFTpN0%3D&reserved=0

>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

>>>>>> For more options, visit https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Foptout&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=BTiYcrZqJKhnla8OP8sAhtNtRIm0vLeuasuoJKrSyE8%3D&reserved=0.

>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
>>>>>> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
>>>>>> To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

>>>>>> Current archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fgroup%2FUSAAfricaDialogue&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ZNgeiSrHu3tQBJCGLPa06atAHaS2XiCNlvHcrHtyIsY%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>> Early archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.utexas.edu%2Fconferences%2Fafrica%2Fads%2Findex.html&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ny3%2BQr5revhd%2F5PIyys0KypAPVOdb427lCEQqbFTpN0%3D&reserved=0

>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

>>>>>> For more options, visit https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Foptout&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=BTiYcrZqJKhnla8OP8sAhtNtRIm0vLeuasuoJKrSyE8%3D&reserved=0.

>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
>>>>>> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
>>>>>> To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

>>>>>> Current archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fgroup%2FUSAAfricaDialogue&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ZNgeiSrHu3tQBJCGLPa06atAHaS2XiCNlvHcrHtyIsY%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>> Early archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.utexas.edu%2Fconferences%2Fafrica%2Fads%2Findex.html&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ny3%2BQr5revhd%2F5PIyys0KypAPVOdb427lCEQqbFTpN0%3D&reserved=0

>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

>>>>>> For more options, visit https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Foptout&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=BTiYcrZqJKhnla8OP8sAhtNtRIm0vLeuasuoJKrSyE8%3D&reserved=0.

>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
>>>>>> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
>>>>>> To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

>>>>>> Current archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fgroup%2FUSAAfricaDialogue&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ZNgeiSrHu3tQBJCGLPa06atAHaS2XiCNlvHcrHtyIsY%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>> Early archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.utexas.edu%2Fconferences%2Fafrica%2Fads%2Findex.html&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ny3%2BQr5revhd%2F5PIyys0KypAPVOdb427lCEQqbFTpN0%3D&reserved=0

>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

>>>>>> For more options, visit https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Foptout&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=BTiYcrZqJKhnla8OP8sAhtNtRIm0vLeuasuoJKrSyE8%3D&reserved=0.

>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
>>>>>> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
>>>>>> To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

>>>>>> Current archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fgroup%2FUSAAfricaDialogue&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ZNgeiSrHu3tQBJCGLPa06atAHaS2XiCNlvHcrHtyIsY%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>> Early archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.utexas.edu%2Fconferences%2Fafrica%2Fads%2Findex.html&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ny3%2BQr5revhd%2F5PIyys0KypAPVOdb427lCEQqbFTpN0%3D&reserved=0

>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

>>>>>> For more options, visit https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Foptout&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=BTiYcrZqJKhnla8OP8sAhtNtRIm0vLeuasuoJKrSyE8%3D&reserved=0.

>>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
>>>>> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
>>>>> To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

>>>>> Current archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fgroup%2FUSAAfricaDialogue&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ZNgeiSrHu3tQBJCGLPa06atAHaS2XiCNlvHcrHtyIsY%3D&reserved=0
>>>>> Early archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.utexas.edu%2Fconferences%2Fafrica%2Fads%2Findex.html&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ny3%2BQr5revhd%2F5PIyys0KypAPVOdb427lCEQqbFTpN0%3D&reserved=0

>>>>> ---
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

>>>>> For more options, visit https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Foptout&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=BTiYcrZqJKhnla8OP8sAhtNtRIm0vLeuasuoJKrSyE8%3D&reserved=0.

>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
>>>>> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
>>>>> To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

>>>>> Current archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fgroup%2FUSAAfricaDialogue&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ZNgeiSrHu3tQBJCGLPa06atAHaS2XiCNlvHcrHtyIsY%3D&reserved=0
>>>>> Early archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.utexas.edu%2Fconferences%2Fafrica%2Fads%2Findex.html&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ny3%2BQr5revhd%2F5PIyys0KypAPVOdb427lCEQqbFTpN0%3D&reserved=0

>>>>> ---
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

>>>>> For more options, visit https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Foptout&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=BTiYcrZqJKhnla8OP8sAhtNtRIm0vLeuasuoJKrSyE8%3D&reserved=0.

>>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
>>>> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
>>>> To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

>>>> Current archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fgroup%2FUSAAfricaDialogue&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ZNgeiSrHu3tQBJCGLPa06atAHaS2XiCNlvHcrHtyIsY%3D&reserved=0
>>>> Early archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.utexas.edu%2Fconferences%2Fafrica%2Fads%2Findex.html&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ny3%2BQr5revhd%2F5PIyys0KypAPVOdb427lCEQqbFTpN0%3D&reserved=0

>>>> ---
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

>>>> For more options, visit https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Foptout&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=BTiYcrZqJKhnla8OP8sAhtNtRIm0vLeuasuoJKrSyE8%3D&reserved=0.

>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
>>>> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
>>>> To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

>>>> Current archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fgroup%2FUSAAfricaDialogue&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ZNgeiSrHu3tQBJCGLPa06atAHaS2XiCNlvHcrHtyIsY%3D&reserved=0
>>>> Early archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.utexas.edu%2Fconferences%2Fafrica%2Fads%2Findex.html&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ny3%2BQr5revhd%2F5PIyys0KypAPVOdb427lCEQqbFTpN0%3D&reserved=0

>>>> ---
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

>>>> For more options, visit https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Foptout&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=BTiYcrZqJKhnla8OP8sAhtNtRIm0vLeuasuoJKrSyE8%3D&reserved=0.

>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
>>>> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
>>>> To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

>>>> Current archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fgroup%2FUSAAfricaDialogue&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ZNgeiSrHu3tQBJCGLPa06atAHaS2XiCNlvHcrHtyIsY%3D&reserved=0
>>>> Early archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.utexas.edu%2Fconferences%2Fafrica%2Fads%2Findex.html&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ny3%2BQr5revhd%2F5PIyys0KypAPVOdb427lCEQqbFTpN0%3D&reserved=0

>>>> ---
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

>>>> For more options, visit https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Foptout&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=BTiYcrZqJKhnla8OP8sAhtNtRIm0vLeuasuoJKrSyE8%3D&reserved=0.

>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
>>>> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
>>>> To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

>>>> Current archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fgroup%2FUSAAfricaDialogue&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ZNgeiSrHu3tQBJCGLPa06atAHaS2XiCNlvHcrHtyIsY%3D&reserved=0
>>>> Early archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.utexas.edu%2Fconferences%2Fafrica%2Fads%2Findex.html&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ny3%2BQr5revhd%2F5PIyys0KypAPVOdb427lCEQqbFTpN0%3D&reserved=0

>>>> ---
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

>>>> For more options, visit https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Foptout&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=BTiYcrZqJKhnla8OP8sAhtNtRIm0vLeuasuoJKrSyE8%3D&reserved=0.

>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
>>>> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
>>>> To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

>>>> Current archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fgroup%2FUSAAfricaDialogue&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ZNgeiSrHu3tQBJCGLPa06atAHaS2XiCNlvHcrHtyIsY%3D&reserved=0
>>>> Early archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.utexas.edu%2Fconferences%2Fafrica%2Fads%2Findex.html&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ny3%2BQr5revhd%2F5PIyys0KypAPVOdb427lCEQqbFTpN0%3D&reserved=0

>>>> ---
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

>>>> For more options, visit https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Foptout&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=BTiYcrZqJKhnla8OP8sAhtNtRIm0vLeuasuoJKrSyE8%3D&reserved=0.

>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
>>>> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
>>>> To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

>>>> Current archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fgroup%2FUSAAfricaDialogue&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ZNgeiSrHu3tQBJCGLPa06atAHaS2XiCNlvHcrHtyIsY%3D&reserved=0
>>>> Early archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.utexas.edu%2Fconferences%2Fafrica%2Fads%2Findex.html&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ny3%2BQr5revhd%2F5PIyys0KypAPVOdb427lCEQqbFTpN0%3D&reserved=0

>>>> ---
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

>>>> For more options, visit https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Foptout&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=BTiYcrZqJKhnla8OP8sAhtNtRIm0vLeuasuoJKrSyE8%3D&reserved=0.

>>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> --
>>> Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
>>> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
>>> To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

>>> Current archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fgroup%2FUSAAfricaDialogue&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ZNgeiSrHu3tQBJCGLPa06atAHaS2XiCNlvHcrHtyIsY%3D&reserved=0
>>> Early archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.utexas.edu%2Fconferences%2Fafrica%2Fads%2Findex.html&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ny3%2BQr5revhd%2F5PIyys0KypAPVOdb427lCEQqbFTpN0%3D&reserved=0

>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

>>> For more options, visit https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Foptout&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=BTiYcrZqJKhnla8OP8sAhtNtRIm0vLeuasuoJKrSyE8%3D&reserved=0.

>>>
>> 
>>
>> --
>> Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
>> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
>> To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

>> Current archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fgroup%2FUSAAfricaDialogue&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ZNgeiSrHu3tQBJCGLPa06atAHaS2XiCNlvHcrHtyIsY%3D&reserved=0
>> Early archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.utexas.edu%2Fconferences%2Fafrica%2Fads%2Findex.html&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ny3%2BQr5revhd%2F5PIyys0KypAPVOdb427lCEQqbFTpN0%3D&reserved=0

>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

>> For more options, visit https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Foptout&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=BTiYcrZqJKhnla8OP8sAhtNtRIm0vLeuasuoJKrSyE8%3D&reserved=0.

>>
>> --
>> Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
>> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
>> To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

>> Current archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fgroup%2FUSAAfricaDialogue&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ZNgeiSrHu3tQBJCGLPa06atAHaS2XiCNlvHcrHtyIsY%3D&reserved=0
>> Early archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.utexas.edu%2Fconferences%2Fafrica%2Fads%2Findex.html&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ny3%2BQr5revhd%2F5PIyys0KypAPVOdb427lCEQqbFTpN0%3D&reserved=0

>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

>> For more options, visit https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Foptout&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=BTiYcrZqJKhnla8OP8sAhtNtRIm0vLeuasuoJKrSyE8%3D&reserved=0.

> --
> Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
> To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

> Current archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fgroup%2FUSAAfricaDialogue&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ZNgeiSrHu3tQBJCGLPa06atAHaS2XiCNlvHcrHtyIsY%3D&reserved=0
> Early archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.utexas.edu%2Fconferences%2Fafrica%2Fads%2Findex.html&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ny3%2BQr5revhd%2F5PIyys0KypAPVOdb427lCEQqbFTpN0%3D&reserved=0

> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

> For more options, visit https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Foptout&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=BTiYcrZqJKhnla8OP8sAhtNtRIm0vLeuasuoJKrSyE8%3D&reserved=0.

>
>
> --
> Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
> To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com 

> Current archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fgroup%2FUSAAfricaDialogue&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ZNgeiSrHu3tQBJCGLPa06atAHaS2XiCNlvHcrHtyIsY%3D&reserved=0
> Early archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.utexas.edu%2Fconferences%2Fafrica%2Fads%2Findex.html&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ny3%2BQr5revhd%2F5PIyys0KypAPVOdb427lCEQqbFTpN0%3D&reserved=0

> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

> For more options, visit https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Foptout&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=BTiYcrZqJKhnla8OP8sAhtNtRIm0vLeuasuoJKrSyE8%3D&reserved=0.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com 

Current archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fgroup%2FUSAAfricaDialogue&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ZNgeiSrHu3tQBJCGLPa06atAHaS2XiCNlvHcrHtyIsY%3D&reserved=0
Early archives at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.utexas.edu%2Fconferences%2Fafrica%2Fads%2Findex.html&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ny3%2BQr5revhd%2F5PIyys0KypAPVOdb427lCEQqbFTpN0%3D&reserved=0

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Foptout&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7C5ef9fdae91894a021afd08d402f0d87b%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=BTiYcrZqJKhnla8OP8sAhtNtRIm0vLeuasuoJKrSyE8%3D&reserved=0.

[Emeagwali, Gloria (History)]

Speaking an African Language was criminalized by the colonial occupiers  in the Caribbean.

Christianity also helped in this by waging a consistent battle of de- Africanization not only of language but

religion and culture in general. Biko speaks about this with respect to South Africa, and Maathai with respect to Kenya.

GE

Professor Gloria Emeagwali
History Department
CCSU. New Britain. CT 06050
africahistory.net

vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
Gloria Emeagwali's Documentaries on

Africa and the African Diaspora

---

From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Ibrahim Abdullah <ibdu...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2016 8:41 PM

To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Farooq, Funmi and Yona

[Kenneth Harrow]

algebra

 

Kenneth Harrow

Dept of English and Film Studies

Michigan State University

619 Red Cedar Rd

East Lansing, MI 48824

517-803-8839

har...@msu.edu

http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Farooq A. Kperogi]

Slightly edited

Gloria,

So you attributed to me a statement I didn't make as evidence for your shallow, intellectually impoverished characterization of my scholarly temperaments. When I called you out, you briefly went quiet, then shamefacedly crawled out of the woodwork, slyly admitted to your dishonesty, but still choose to stick to your false, totally groundless conclusion about me. In rhetorical studies we often talk of the scholarly sin of finalism, defined as a conclusion in search of evidence. Yours is worse: it's a conclusion that insists on being in spite of contrary evidence staring it right in the face. 

As early as March 11, 2010 I wrote a column titled "Top 10 Irritating Errors in American English" where I pointed out, among other things, that even native English speakers violate the rules of their own language. “You see, even native speakers of the English language make mistakes, too. They grapple with as much anxiety and insecurity about the grammatical correctness of, especially their written, English as those of us for whom English is a second language. As linguists know only too well, there is no such thing as a native writer of any language; there are only native speakers of languages,” I wrote.

You don't have even the tiniest thread of evidence to hand your reckless and malicious charge against me, so you resort to cheap, uninformed innuendos.

I have just been told that you are a Caribbean, not the Nigerian that I'd always thought you were because of your last name. I now know the source of your perpetual anxieties about race, which I frankly understand. You think I'm dissing English-based creoles, your native language, and you're getting all hot and worked up. But you are completely mistaken. I haven't said a thing about Creole languages that is even remotely disparaging. Point to me where I said a disparaging thing about creoles. And, please, don't attribute someone else's statement to me this time around.

I did say pidgins have limited utility, especially as media of literary expression and high-minded scholarly thought.. Agbetuyi agreed. Several linguists say the same thing. But my position on pidgins, especially Nigerian Pidgin English, is informed by my own intimate experiential familiarity with it. The fact that some MIT linguistics scholar (whose work you didn't cite) said something nice about pidgins (what precisely he said you haven't even told us) isn't sufficient to delegitimize my experience. That's weak, disappointing logic.

Farooq

Farooq A. Kperogi, Ph.D.

Associate Professor

Journalism & Emerging Media
School of Communication & Media

Social Science Building 

Room 5092 MD 2207

402 Bartow Avenue
Kennesaw State University

Kennesaw, Georgia, USA 30144
Cell: (+1) 404-573-9697
Personal website: www.farooqkperogi.com

Twitter: @farooqkperog

Author of Glocal English: The Changing Face and Forms of Nigerian English in a Global World

"The nice thing about pessimism is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised." G. F. Will

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Farooq A. Kperogi <farooq...@gmail.com> wrote:

Gloria,

So you attributed to me a statement I didn't make as evidence for your shallow, intellectually impoverished characterization of my scholarly temperaments. When I called you out, you briefly went quiet, then shamefacedly crawled out of the woodwork, slyly admitted to your dishonesty, but still choose to stick to your false, totally groundless conclusion about me. In rhetorical studies we often talk of the scholarly sin of finalism, defined as a conclusion in search of evidence. Yours is worse: it's a conclusion that insists on being in spite of contrary evidence staring it right in the face. 

As early as March 11, 2010 I wrote a column titled "Top 10 Irritating Errors in American English" where I pointed out, among other things, that even native English speakers violate the rules of their own language. “You see, even native speakers of the English language make mistakes, too. They grapple with as much anxiety and insecurity about the grammatical correctness of, especially their written, English as those of us for whom English is a second language. As linguists know only too well, there is no such thing as a native writer of any language; there are only native speakers of languages,” I wrote.

You don't have even the tiniest thread of evidence to hand your reckless and malicious charge against me, so you resort to cheap, uninformed innuendos.

I have just being told that you are a Caribbean, not the Nigerian that I'd always thought you were because of your last name. I now know the source of your perpetual anxieties about race, which I frankly understand. You think I'm dissing English-based creoles, your native language, and you're getting all hot and worked up. But you are completely mistaken. I haven't said a thing about Creole languages that is even remotely disparaging. Point to me where I said a disparaging thing about creoles. And, please, don't attribute someone else's statement to me this time around.

I did say pidgins have limited utility, especially as media of literary expression and high-minded scholarly thought.. Agetuyi agreed. Several linguists say the same thing. But my position on pidgins, especially Nigerian Pidgin English, is informed by my own intimate experiential familiarity with it. The fact that some MIT linguistics scholar (whose work you didn't cite) said something nice about pidgins (what precisely he said you haven't even told us) isn't sufficient to delegitimize my experience. That's weak, disappointing logic.

Farooq

Farooq A. Kperogi, Ph.D.

Associate Professor

Journalism & Emerging Media
School of Communication & Media

Social Science Building 

Room 5092 MD 2207

402 Bartow Avenue
Kennesaw State University

Kennesaw, Georgia, USA 30144
Cell: (+1) 404-573-9697
Personal website: www.farooqkperogi.com

Twitter: @farooqkperog

Author of Glocal English: The Changing Face and Forms of Nigerian English in a Global World

"The nice thing about pessimism is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised." G. F. Will

On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 9:58 PM, Emeagwali, Gloria (History) <emea...@ccsu.edu> wrote:

First of all,  let me say that,  in error,  I attributed to you a statement made by someone else.  I went back to previous emails and discovered the mistake.

If you believe that I deliberately cited it to  "dishonestly" make a point, so be it. But this is not what  actually occurred.

The fact is that there is so much irrationality in your discussions that there is no need for me to fake it. 

Your intransigence about  what is correct and what is not,  and your disdain against  linguistic systems spoken by millions of people around the world,   have convinced me that although the citation was an error, in this case, the  overall conclusion I came to was 100% appropriate.

I advise you to look at the work of  Dr. Michel De Graff, Professor of Linguistics at MIT who has taken a more respectful position to pidgins and creoles. At the center of his research is a recognition  and appreciation of the full potential of these linguistic systems. 

Gloria Emeagwali

Professor Gloria Emeagwali
History Department
CCSU. New Britain. CT 06050
africahistory.net

vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
Gloria Emeagwali's Documentaries on

Africa and the African Diaspora

---

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Farooq A. Kperogi <farooq...@gmail.com>

Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 3:27 PM

To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Emeagwali, Gloria (History)]

"When I called you out, you briefly went quiet, then shamefacedly crawled out of the woodwork, slyly admitted to your dishonesty, but still choose to stick to your false, totally groundless conclusion about me."

Indeed I shall stick to my characterization.

I don't intend to stoop as low as you often go, though. I shall take the high road.

I noted your unfair description of  Kadiri. He does much better than you do,

in any case. I enjoy a lot of his writings.

I guess I need your permission  for the name Emeagwali. Right?

Too bad. You are forty four years  late, buddy.

Professor Gloria Emeagwali
History Department
CCSU. New Britain. CT 06050
africahistory.net

vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
Gloria Emeagwali's Documentaries on

Africa and the African Diaspora

---

From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Farooq A. Kperogi <farooq...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 1:58 PM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

[Olayinka Agbetuyi]

Farooq:

You said the 3 language proposal ended up dead in Nigeria because to minorities any othet language other than English is as foreign ad English to minorities. You also talked of global advantages of languages

In my original submission in 1998. I did mention that minorities at the local state should employ their own languages for local governance accepting that every minority is a majority somewhere. Posers:

Why did the Indians not readon the way you did?

In addition to having the Welsh assembly why did Wales not insist it would not be part of the Union unless Welsh is the national language adopted at Westminster over and above English? Why did the Welsh not campaign to make German or Latin the British national language to spite the English majority?

Is democracy not a game of numbers?

And why should the minorities in Nigeria resent the fact that the majorities are the majorities and capitulate to a global majority to cover this 'national' verity? Will this strategy wish away the fact of their majorities?

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

[Ibrahim Abdullah]

The colonial project was totally anti-modern. Shedding your Africaness was the pathway to westernisation and eventual creolisation—a mixture of mixture as Bylden called. Ajayi Crowther fought against this and was recalled. I am currently grappling with this reality now: nineteenth century Freetown and the non-existence of Creole as a people and Creole as a language—questioning conventional wisdom. Both the language and people were invented in the twentieth century.

But then the Creole nationalists decided to call it KRIO in the early 80s: they dropped the (C)reole and claimed the (K)rio as their ethnicity. 

On Nov 1, 2016, at 11:37 PM, Olayinka Agbetuyi <yagb...@hotmail.com> wrote:

[Ibrahim Abdullah]

The colonial project was totally anti-modern. Shedding your Africaness was the pathway to westernisation and eventual creolisation—a mixture of mixture as Bylden called. Ajayi Crowther fought against this and was recalled. I am currently grappling with this reality now: nineteenth century Freetown and the non-existence of Creole as a people and Creole as a language—questioning conventional wisdom. Both the language and people were invented in the twentieth century.

But then the Creole nationalists decided to call it KRIO in the early 80s: they dropped the (C)reole and claimed the (K)rio as their ethnicity. 

On Nov 1, 2016, at 11:37 PM, Olayinka Agbetuyi <yagb...@hotmail.com> wrote:

[Farooq A. Kperogi]

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 6:44 PM, Olayinka Agbetuyi <yagb...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Why did the Indians not readon the way you did?

In addition to having the Welsh assembly why did Wales not insist it would not be part of the Union unless Welsh is the national language adopted at Westminster over and above English? Why did the Welsh not campaign to make German or Latin the British national language to spite the English majority?

Is democracy not a game of numbers?

And why should the minorities in Nigeria resent the fact that the majorities are the majorities and capitulate to a global majority to cover this 'national' verity? Will this strategy wish away the fact of their majorities?

Olayinka,

The short answer is that Indian linguistic minorities are NOT the same as Nigerian linguistic minorities. Nor are the Welsh synonymous with Nigerian linguistic minorities. So their attitudes must necessarily be different. I think it bespeaks a lack of self-reflexivity for you to institute (your notion of) the attitude of sheepish acquiescence to domestic linguistic imperialism in India and Wales as the template that Nigerian linguistic minorities must adopt. Even if every minority group in the world unquestioningly acquiesced to the majoritarian tyranny of major language groups, that's no reason we in Nigeria should toe the same line. Consensus is not always synonymous with the truth or with what is right. 

But your recounting of the Indian and Welsh experiences isn't even faithful to the facts. India has two national official languages: Hindi and English. It also recognizes 29 (?) regional languages in its constitution, and allows states to determine their own official languages--even if the languages are not among the 29 constitutionally recognized languages. In addition, people whose mother tongues are not recognized as state languages may choose to speak in their native languages in official communication, including in state parliaments--of course, with the permission of the Speaker. But all laws at both state and federal levels must be written in English.

In any case, 45 percent of Indians speak Hindi or its dialectal variations. No Nigerian language is spoken by up to 40 percent of the population. You can't impose Hausa, for instance, on the people  of Kwara, Benue and Kogi, who are politically in the north, because only an insignificant minority of people speak the language there. Nor can you impose Yoruba on Edo people, or Igbo on the people of Bayelsa, Cross River, and Akwa Ibom; You may have limited success with Igbo in some parts of Delta and Rivers states. There would be massive, violent protests.

You make it seem like linguistic minorities in Indian simply accepted their domination with listless resignation. That's false. In India, the proposal to derecognize English as an official language and impose Hindi as the sole official language of the country was met with violent protests, which compelled the government to reverse it (See Robert Hardgrave’s interesting 1965 essay titled, "The Riots in Tamilnadu: Problems and Prospects of India's Language Crisis" in the Asian Survey.) Nor is Hindi's dominance in India unchallenged (See "Hindi Not a National Language: Court" in The Hindu of January 25, 2010).

Most importantly, though, there is a class dimension to the language policy in India that you seem to ignore in your haste to linguistically colonize other language groups in Nigeria. The upper crust of the Indian society educate their children in English (and, of course, Hindi) and condemn others at the lower end to Hindi or other indigenous language education. This entrenches the intergenerational perpetuation of social and economic inequalities. That’s the kind of social apartheid your “indigenous” language policy would inaugurate in Nigeria. Children of wealthy people would attend English-language schools, climb the social ladder, travel the world, become citizens of the world, partake in all the thrills that the English-dominated global world offers, etc. while children of the poor would be educated in indigenous languages, vegetate in epistemic insularity, limited social mobility, and perpetual servitude to the children of the English-educated privileged class. That is not the Nigeria I want for my people.

The case of the Welsh is very straightforward. Welsh is an official language in the UK even though more than 70 percent of people who self-identify as ethnically Welsh don't speak it. Since  the year 2000, as a result of sustained Welsh linguistic nationalism, the language is now taught in schools, and knowledge of the language is now one of the linguistic competencies (other options being English, Gaelic, and Scottish) that prospective applicants for naturalization in the UK must demonstrate. About 8 years ago, when former National Assembly for Wales member Alun Jones spoke at the EU, he spoke entirely in Welsh and got someone to translate what he said in English. In short, Welsh linguistic nationalism and recognition are on the upswing. 

Why would the Welsh campaign to make German or Latin the national language to "spite" the English when Latin is dead and Germans are themselves switching to English? That's an astoundingly odd analogy to make. Read the link I shared some days back about Italian, Israeli, and German universities switching to English as the medium of instruction. Here is a quote from my book that speaks to this:

  'Most importantly, [English] is the language of scholarship and learning. The Science Citation Index, for instance, revealed in a 1997 report that 95 percent of scholarly articles in its corpus were written in English, even though only half of these scientific articles came from authors whose first language is English (Garfield, 1998). Scores of universities in Europe, Africa, and Asia are switching to English as the preferred language of instruction. As Germany’s Technical University president Wolfgang Hermann said when his university ditched German and switched to English as the language of instruction for most of the school’s master’s degree programs, “English is the lingua franca [of the] academia and of the economy” (The Local, 2014). His assertion has support in the findings of a study in Germany that discovered that publishing in English is “often the only way to be noticed by the international scientific community” (The Local, 2014). So most academics in the world either have to publish in English or perish in their native tongues. In addition, it has been noted in many places that between 70 and 80 percent of information stored in the world's computers is in English, leading a technology writer to describe the English language as “the lingua franca of the wired world” (Bowen, 2001).'

The Welsh are in the UK where English is spoken by more than 90 percent of the population. So your contrast of contexts is entirely imperfect. I hope you are not implying that the resistance to the imposition of Hausa, Yoruba and Igbo as languages of instruction is inspired by the desire of linguistic minorities to "spite" linguistic majorities. That would be intolerably insulting. People are just emotionally wedded to their languages (the same way you are wedded to yours) and would go to any length to resist domestic linguistic imperialism. It's that simple. If learning any of the majority (or even minority) languages would open doors of opportunities, of course people won't even need to be persuaded to learn the languages. But there is no advantage, none whatsoever, to learning a domestic foreign language IN PLACE of a global language like English that several other people in the world are turning to.

Finally, you've moved from an indigenous epistemic logic for your "3-language" indigenous language policy (which can’t be defended with the resources of logic) to barefacedly domestic imperialist and majoritarian arrogance about democracy being a "game of numbers," by which you seem to imply that the rights of minorities can be trampled upon unchallenged. Look, if Yoruba, Hausa, and Igbo people want to use their languages as the media of instruction at all levels of education, good luck to them, but they shouldn't impose their languages on others who are proud of and invested in their own languages, and who want to have no truck with domestic linguistic imperialism. 

 If English ceases to be the receptacle of vast systems of knowledge that it is now and goes the way of Latin, everyone would drop it like it's hot. This isn't about "race," "inferiority," "superiority," or such other piteous vocabulary of the weak. It's plain pragmatism. 

Farooq Kperogi

[Ibukunolu. A. Babajide]

Gloria,

I can empathize with you here. Farooq Kperogi's fragile ego cannot process what is legitimate observation or constructive criticism. He confuses them as personal attack. He then lashes out rudely against those he irrationally believes are against him.

On the whole the rules of  English he carries on his head are not fixed in time or place. What is used as a verb in England may be acceptable as a noun in America or another part of speech in Australia.  In my Scrabble playing days the game had the British and American dictionaries. The word "wifeing" unknown to BRITISH English was legitimate in American English.

His total disdain for other languages especially indigenous African ones stems from his lack of knowledge and respect of his own mother tongue and other indigenous African languages. Late Senghor of Senegal once derided his own mother tongue and praised French the language of the oppressor to the high heavens.

Many Africans are products of mental colonization. They are enslaved by the language of their oppressor while they think they are the gatekeepers of that language and that they can be more Catholic than the Pope.

True education comes from a balanced awareness of the great historical and cultural value in our indigenous African languages. We should study and preserve them with pride and not disdain.

Cheers.

IBK

Sent from my iPhone

[Kenneth Harrow]

Dear Ibrahim,

In the conventional usage of modernism, the colonial project was entirely devoted to the notion of the modern, of being modern, of bringing Africans into modernity. Their notions of modernity were, obviously, entirely Eurocentric: Europe was modern, both in technology and thought, and Africa had to be brought into it. The real analysis of what this entailed can be seen in said and those who followed, mignolo, Wallerstein, all the postcolonialists like spivak and bhabha, all building on fanon and other anticolonialists. What is central is the notion of modernity, that hides its eurocentrism behind the mask of universalism.

I don’t want to go on; it would bore everyone. My one point is that when you say colonialism’s project was anti-modern you are using a rhetoric that runs counter to the entire field of postcolonial studies for which modernism, grounded in a European reading of history that views the enlightenment as the turn toward modernism, informs the colonial project completely.

In the end, one of the paths of colonialism—assimilation—comes to be countered by bhabha and the theorists of hybridity who demolish the notion of teleological advancement, and the rest of it is destroyed by Mudimbe.

 

Ken

 

 

 

Kenneth Harrow

Dept of English and Film Studies

Michigan State University

619 Red Cedar Rd

East Lansing, MI 48824

517-803-8839

har...@msu.edu

http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/

 

From: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Ibrahim Abdullah <ibdu...@gmail.com>

Reply-To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Wednesday 2 November 2016 at 20:00
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

[Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju]

My people,

This thread has been quite informative and lively.

Lets do our best to keep it insult and quarrel free so we can continue to enjoy it in peace.

Great thanks

Toyin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Emeagwali, Gloria (History)]

ken,

      Won't you include  the word imperialistic as well?   It is not just  an attempt to "bring Africans into modernity." It is also an attempt to  dominate, control, and exploit resources and people. 

Professor Gloria Emeagwali
History Department
CCSU. New Britain. CT 06050
africahistory.net

vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
Gloria Emeagwali's Documentaries on

Africa and the African Diaspora

---

From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Kenneth Harrow <har...@msu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:14 PM
To: usaafricadialogue

[Cornelius Hamelberg]

This learned thread/ language feud is becoming more interesting by the minute, educative indeed, with the latest contributions of John Edward Philips and Ibrahim Abdullah...

I must confess that I am delighted when Professor Harrow confers yet another meritorious title on journalism professor Kperogi with these memorable words :

“I regard Farooq as an authority on English and on language” (Kenneth Harrow).

Got me going, thinking about Pope's epitaph on Sir Isaac Newton

“Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night:
God said, Let Newton be! and all was light.”

and that acronym for the Nigerian Electrical Power Authority, NEPA being translated as

“never expect power always”

Cornelius Ignoramus' only question is one that some of the brave ones in and out of this forum are probably also wondering about and would like know: Who made Farooq an authority on English and on language? In the name of Ubuntu, who else apart from Harrow made Farooq an authority on English and on language ? And let me hasten to add, that having given Professor Harrow a prior poetic license, I do not regard either statement as a provocation...

Last night on the airport bus from Arlanda to Stockholm, I was joking with my Better Half (Swedish Language pedagogue), quoting Bob Dylan's line

“Steal a little, and they put you in jail.

Steal a lot, and they make you king.”

not in connection with St. Augustine's story of Alexander the Great and the pirate (which I first encountered in Chomsky's “ what we say goes”) as in what Harrow says goes, but with regard to the bard - Nobel Laureate - King Dylan himself who arrived in his Cadillac to receive the Polar Prize from King Carl XVI Gustaf, a couple of years back, him also stealin' my blues, (like B.B. King) you know the song, that begins “Papa knows and mama too , rock and roll is music now “ - “he comes for your gold but watch out for your soul...”

As Oluwatoyin Adepoju says, it's imperial English, the mother of all languages that is keeping Nigeria glued together (some of the Brits that I met at our last hotel in Marrakesh, think that the whole world is still their empire – I myself protested that BBC and CNN had been available in every other hotel in Casablanca, Fes, Meknes, Rabat, but at the Aqua Mirage it was French, French and French, the only news programme in English being France 24 – although Morocco was only a French colony for thirty five years, 1912- 1955 ( whereas Sierra Leone was a British colony for one hundred and fifty years, unlike Nigeria which was a British colony for forty six years, 1914- 1960...

On my way to Nigeria, where I taught English, I took a look at Paulo Freire's Pedagogy of the oppressed and The Letters to Guinea-Bissau – was mainly interest in teaching English as a subversive activity and was mostly – at that time , interested in the Liberation of South Africa from the evil apartheid…

Must praise Keprogi with some satire written in various Englishes, later in the day

Moses Ascending

Cornelius,

We Sweden

On Tuesday, 1 November 2016 17:32:01 UTC+1, Cornelius Hamelberg wrote:

I have been updating my travelogue cum my notebook on the two Kperogi language threads and intend to transfer the satirical matter to this forum when next I access a computer keyboard ina Stockholm. For once, my Bettah Half ( a veritable language buff/translator/polygot in her own right - French, German, Italian, Spanish, English, Mother tongue Swedish) has been following the discussion and says that she likes IBK
Excuse  the pomposity, but it also behoves me to defend/exonerate my dear Yoruba mentor, the venerable Ogbeni Kadiri, before insult adds to injury.
In the meantime, here's some passable patois, pidgin, broken, call it what you will, being put to some "literary" use


https://www.google.com/search?q=sam+selvon+%3A+Moses+ascending&oq=Sam+Selvon+%3A+Moses+Ascending&aqs=chrome.0.69i59.2605j0j4&client=tablet-android-samsung&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

[Olayinka Agbetuyi]

Farooq:

I quite appreciate your long disquisition.  This isnt about jettisoning English.  Like you I teach English for a living. If the global embrace of English is not construed as linguistic imperialism why must the adoption of Igbo, Yoruba or Hausa in Nigeria be construed as such? As a comparatist I would rather learn Igbo than pidgin. I would rather expand my grounding in Hausa too.

And if the call by the primal linguist, Elegbara (like the injunction by Allah for all adherents to strive to visit Mecca at least once in a life time) that all strive towards learning as many as they can towards a16 tongues capability in a life time is assiduouly pursued as I intend to, your language may be among the next set I would turn my attention to without regarding that as linguistic imperialism.

Rather than attempt to brow beat the majorities to silence if the issue is put to referendum,would the minorities be able to impose their will on the majorities? If the vote goes the way of the majorities would the minorities secede from the federation on that account? May I ask for the source of your statistics on India?

--

[Farooq A. Kperogi]

Olayinka,

You are going round in circles and shifting the discursive goal posts as you go, and that's usually an indication that there is nothing more of substance to be said about an issue. All your questions have been answered in my last post. Read it again if you've not had the chance to read it thoroughly. 

English has moved beyond being imperialistic; it's now hegemonic in the Gramscian sense of the term. That's why several countries are turning to it voluntarily. When German, Italian, Israeli, etc. universities decided to switch  to English as the medium of instruction, they didn't do so because they were conquered by Britain or the US. When millions of Chinese people spend time and resources to learn English, they do so because they want to be competitive in the global market. When South Koreans go to the ridiculous extremes of spending thousands of dollars to perform surgery on their tongues so they can speak English with native-like proficiency, they do it of their own volition. Zizek once argued that people who are targets of hegemonic cooptation only voluntarily agree to this process if they believe that, in accepting it, they are giving expression to their free subjectivity. That's effective hegemony. But you want crude, vulgar, unvarnished linguistic imperialist subjugation of linguistic minorities in Nigeria. Ain't gonna happen, buddy. So crush that dream.

I haven't advocated that any Nigerian be stopped from learning any language they want. What I resist is the formal imposition, in the school system, of so-called majority languages on people who are not native speakers of the languages and who don't want to be bothered with the languages because they have theirs. I have already articulated my reasons for that. I won't repeat them.

The irony in all this is that the languages you are proposing as alternatives to English owe their present form and dominance to English colonialists. The notion of a "Yoruba language," for instance, is so thoroughly colonial. For starters, "Yoruba" is an exonym first used by a Songhai scholar to refer to people in what is now Oyo, Osun, and Lagos states--and parts of Kwara State. Ajayi Crowther later adopted the name and used it to refer to cognate but nonetheless linguistically diverse people in Nigeria's southwest. For administrative convenience, colonialists standardized the Oyo "dialect" of the language and imposed it on people who never spoke it before. To this day, many people in rural Ekiti, Ondo, some parts of Ogun, etc. don't understand "Yoruba." Their languages, though certainly cognate with "Oyo Yoruba," are almost mutually unintelligible with it. I think it was Professor Etannibi Alemika, an Okun person (whom some people would call a "Yoruba") who once described himself as a minority that some majorities are aggressively trying to assimilate against his will. In other words, he resents being called "Yoruba." I was once in a rural Ekiti community for a wedding, and "Yoruba" people from Lagos were shocked that most people there couldn't communicate with them in the common language of the region.

The whole idea of a Yoruba identity and language, in their present forms at least, was forged in and sanctified by British colonialism and its twin sister, missionism. This is true of Igbo, too. Although Hausa was a trade language in most parts of northern Nigeria before colonialism, it, too, benefited from several purposive colonial language intervention policies. This is what I wrote in a 2005 book chapter titled "Kparo: Study of the emergence and death of a minority language newspaper in Nigeria" in Indigenous Language Media in Africa edited by Abiodun Salawu:

"In the first few years of primary school education, the colonial administrators not only made the teaching of Hausa compulsory for all students in the North; they also made it the language of instruction for all subjects for the first four years of primary education. This policy continued up to a few years after independence until the regional structure of Nigeria was dissolved and replaced by states by the emergent military regime. The result was that the first crop of educated people from minority linguistic groups in the North had high literacy in the Hausa language but were illiterate in their own indigenous languages. This was a huge seminal disincentive for the emergence and growth of indigenous language newspapers in mediums other than the Hausa language. The only set of minority groups who were insulated from this linguistic imperialism were the people who were educated in Christian missionary schools. Religious denominations developed writing systems for a whole host of minority languages and translated the Bible into those languages. This elevated the status of the languages to a certain extent. But these languages were few when one takes into account the immense linguistic diversity of the North."

My friend, rest this quixotic ploy to impose any so-called majority languages on Nigerian linguistic minorities against their wishes. The English imposed their language on us first because they conquered us. (Now English has become the ladder for social mobility in our increasingly globalized world). You will have to also conquer other Nigerians before you can impose your language on them, and good luck with that. The only time people willingly accept FORMAL linguistic imposition without conquest is if the language serves a personal social need. There is absolutely nothing to be gained in getting one's education in a domestic foreign language.

Farooq Kperogi

Farooq A. Kperogi, Ph.D.

Associate Professor

Journalism & Emerging Media
School of Communication & Media

Social Science Building 

Room 5092 MD 2207

402 Bartow Avenue
Kennesaw State University

Kennesaw, Georgia, USA 30144
Cell: (+1) 404-573-9697
Personal website: www.farooqkperogi.com

Twitter: @farooqkperog

Author of Glocal English: The Changing Face and Forms of Nigerian English in a Global World

"The nice thing about pessimism is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised." G. F. Will

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Kenneth Harrow]

Dear Cornelius,

As I read farooq’s bioblurb, it includes his publications, which suggest expertise on language and English.

Here is what is stated in his university description of his work:

His scholarly and pedagogical interests, broadly, include citizen and alternative online journalism, globalization and new media, online sociability, communication/media theory, news reporting and writing, media management, diasporic media, media English, grammar, and international mass media. His articles have appeared in the Journal of Global Mass Communication, New Media & Society, Review of Communication, Asia Pacific Media Educator, Journal of Communication and Media Studies, and in many book chapters on diverse topics in communication. He is the author, most recently, of Glocal English: The Changing Face and Forms of Nigerian English in a Global World (Peter Lang, 2015).

 

So I guess he is a specialist on media as well as language, and, as his last book suggest, English as well.

Why not? He may be a journalist prof, but that label seems to be encompassed more specially by the term “media”

As for me being god… well… I am not god, just an old boy, like you. Subject to the same frailties of age.

ken

 

Kenneth Harrow

Dept of English and Film Studies

Michigan State University

619 Red Cedar Rd

East Lansing, MI 48824

517-803-8839

har...@msu.edu

http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/

 

From: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Cornelius Hamelberg <cornelius...@gmail.com>

Reply-To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Thursday 3 November 2016 at 06:13
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

--

Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin

To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com

Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

[Kenneth Harrow]

Thanks to olayinka and Farooq for this informed exchange.

A few random questions, thoughts. If welsh is rising, isn’t that the opposite of gaelic, in Ireland, where I’ve heard it is rapidly falling away. The attempt to create a new national language there has faltered, if not failed, in contrast w Hebrew in Israel.

Secondly, while the talk of minority languages in india is being cited, don’t forget the numbers. India is almost 10 times as populous as Nigeria. A minority in india is a majority in most other countries of the world.

Thirdly, languages die. But also are born. I keep imagining that all the variants of English now, like Nigerian, indian, etc., should eventually form new languages, as did the romance languages. Maybe. There are countervailing forces, too. Why hasn’t pidgin taken hold more strongly? Not just because of the strength of local languages; after all, bamileke is just as strong as igbo, but pidgin in w Cameroon is quite prevalent. It must, in part, be because it isn’t the language of instruction, or of officialdom?

Lastly, minority lanuages in the cases being cited here, in india as in Nigeria, are often enough close relatives of each other. My daughter-in-law had little trouble picking up hindi because her family’s language of gujerati is closely related.

I barely studied Spanish, yet can read a newspaper, more or less, because I know French.

ken

 

Kenneth Harrow

Dept of English and Film Studies

Michigan State University

619 Red Cedar Rd

East Lansing, MI 48824

517-803-8839

har...@msu.edu

http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/

 

From: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Olayinka Agbetuyi <yagb...@hotmail.com>

Reply-To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Thursday 3 November 2016 at 06:53
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

[Olayinka Agbetuyi]

Ken.
The notion of bringing Africa into modernity was the ruse sold to the Christiam majority at home to secure their blessings. The actors and adventurers knew tha name of the game was pillage and exploitation t o advance the goals of each of the European nations competitive modernities.

On 3 Nov 2016 12:37, Olayinka Agbetuyi <yagb...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Ken.
I agree with your implied theory of multiple modernities intoto but you should be careful about the alternate use of modernism and modernity. It think what your pisition seems to be about is modernity and not modernism which is a eurocentric concept.  Yoruba like other world civilizations embrace modernity as 'nkan igbalode' (and is Yoruba among your repertoire of African languages or potential African languages?) a notion that is perennially shifting.

--