UN Security Council Members Should be Stripped of Veto Powers in the Interest of Global Safety

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Oluwatoyin Adepoju

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Dec 9, 2023, 4:35:44 PM12/9/23
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The US singlehandedly blocking the passage of a UN Resolution for a ceasefire putting an end to the ongoing anti-Palestinian genocide by Israel makes it clear that all UN security council members should be stripped of veto powers, the powers that enabled the US, with one vote against thirteen, preventing the stopping of the historic inhumanity being carried out by its Israeli protege.

Removing such disproportionate powers from individual nations is crucial  for the well being of the world, as the UN moves towards being a true democracy, not an ultimately toothless gathering dominated by the powerful subjugating  everyone else.

In such domination, is the UN truly a United Nations or another colonial contraption? 

How can the change from the illusion of a United Nations to an actual unity of nations, as equals, be achieved?

Is it possible for all nations to withdraw from the UN until this strategic move is implemented?


Harrow, Kenneth

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Dec 10, 2023, 4:23:59 AM12/10/23
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I think you would have found security council vetoes against measures condemning apartheid in s africa, in the past, as well. Some one else can check whether i remember correctly. The security council, as we all know, was set up after world war two to insure the continuing power of the allied victors. There is democracy in the un assembly votes, but they are empty rhetoric
Ken

Kenneth Harrow
Emeritus Professor of English, Michigan State University
Harrow@msu/edu

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Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - UN Security Council Members Should be Stripped of Veto Powers in the Interest of Global Safety
 
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Chidi Anthony Opara, FIIM, CDOA

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Dec 10, 2023, 4:24:59 AM12/10/23
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Oluwatoyin,

Unites States of America said that the draft resolution under reference did not condemn Hamas.

By the way, a resolution is needed to abolish veto. Do you think that a draft resolution in that regard would not be vetoed?

-Chidi Anthony Opara (CAO).
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Oluwatoyin Adepoju

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Dec 10, 2023, 4:56:19 AM12/10/23
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The concept of veto power in the UN Security Council is enabled by the compliance of other members of the UN.

The UN gets it's legitimacy from the consensus of it's member nations, of which only  five or so are  veto power holding nations.

The UN system is essentially an agreement between it's member states, a unity significantly used by its dominant partners in shaping the world as they see fit.

The same nonsense took place in the invasion of Iraq by the  US and it's allies
under lies of weapons of mass destruction which they possess but falsely claimed Iraq also had.

If a significant number of UN member states insist that the veto powers of the dominant nations be removed, or they will withdraw from the UN, denying it legitimacy, those powers are likely to be removed.

How can we build a home where a few insist on dominating others, with the consent of the dominated?

Crazy.

Thanks

Toyin


On Sun, Dec 10, 2023, 10:24 AM Chidi Anthony Opara, FIIM, CDOA <chidi...@gmail.com> wrote:
Oluwatoyin,

Unites States of America said that the draft resolution under reference did not condemn Hamas.

By the way, a resolution is needed to abolish veto. Do you think that a draft resolution in that regard would not be vetoed?

-Chidi Anthony Opara (CAO).

On Saturday 9 December 2023, Oluwatoyin Adepoju <ovde...@gmail.com> wrote:
The US singlehandedly blocking the passage of a UN Resolution for a ceasefire putting an end to the ongoing anti-Palestinian genocide by Israel makes it clear that all UN security council members should be stripped of veto powers, the powers that enabled the US, with one vote against thirteen, preventing the stopping of the historic inhumanity being carried out by its Israeli protege.

Removing such disproportionate powers from individual nations is crucial  for the well being of the world, as the UN moves towards being a true democracy, not an ultimately toothless gathering dominated by the powerful subjugating  everyone else.

In such domination, is the UN truly a United Nations or another colonial contraption? 

How can the change from the illusion of a United Nations to an actual unity of nations, as equals, be achieved?

Is it possible for all nations to withdraw from the UN until this strategic move is implemented?


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Oluwatoyin Adepoju

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Dec 10, 2023, 4:56:20 AM12/10/23
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I don't think that's the reason the US vetoed the resolution.

Even if it was, should the resolution also have included condemnation of Israel's murderous decades long caging of Gaza and current genocidal bombing of Gaza, facts that it's anathema to mention in US public life on pain of severe career sanctions?

Hamas is simply a convenient scape goat for the current imperialist explosion.

Thanks

Toyin

On Sun, Dec 10, 2023, 10:24 AM Chidi Anthony Opara, FIIM, CDOA <chidi...@gmail.com> wrote:
Oluwatoyin,

Unites States of America said that the draft resolution under reference did not condemn Hamas.

By the way, a resolution is needed to abolish veto. Do you think that a draft resolution in that regard would not be vetoed?

-Chidi Anthony Opara (CAO).

On Saturday 9 December 2023, Oluwatoyin Adepoju <ovde...@gmail.com> wrote:
The US singlehandedly blocking the passage of a UN Resolution for a ceasefire putting an end to the ongoing anti-Palestinian genocide by Israel makes it clear that all UN security council members should be stripped of veto powers, the powers that enabled the US, with one vote against thirteen, preventing the stopping of the historic inhumanity being carried out by its Israeli protege.

Removing such disproportionate powers from individual nations is crucial  for the well being of the world, as the UN moves towards being a true democracy, not an ultimately toothless gathering dominated by the powerful subjugating  everyone else.

In such domination, is the UN truly a United Nations or another colonial contraption? 

How can the change from the illusion of a United Nations to an actual unity of nations, as equals, be achieved?

Is it possible for all nations to withdraw from the UN until this strategic move is implemented?


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Chidi Anthony Opara, FIIM, CDOA

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Dec 10, 2023, 8:44:26 AM12/10/23
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(international)politics and diplomacy are based on realism rather than on idealism.

-CAO.


On Sunday 10 December 2023, Oluwatoyin Adepoju <ovde...@gmail.com> wrote:
The concept of veto power in the UN Security Council is enabled by the compliance of other members of the UN.

The UN gets it's legitimacy from the consensus of it's member nations, of which only  five or so are  veto power holding nations.

The UN system is essentially an agreement between it's member states, a unity significantly used by its dominant partners in shaping the world as they see fit.

The same nonsense took place in the invasion of Iraq by the  US and it's allies
under lies of weapons of mass destruction which they possess but falsely claimed Iraq also had.

If a significant number of UN member states insist that the veto powers of the dominant nations be removed, or they will withdraw from the UN, denying it legitimacy, those powers are likely to be removed.

How can we build a home where a few insist on dominating others, with the consent of the dominated?

Crazy.

Thanks

Toyin


On Sun, Dec 10, 2023, 10:24 AM Chidi Anthony Opara, FIIM, CDOA <chidi...@gmail.com> wrote:
Oluwatoyin,

Unites States of America said that the draft resolution under reference did not condemn Hamas.

By the way, a resolution is needed to abolish veto. Do you think that a draft resolution in that regard would not be vetoed?

-Chidi Anthony Opara (CAO).

On Saturday 9 December 2023, Oluwatoyin Adepoju <ovde...@gmail.com> wrote:
The US singlehandedly blocking the passage of a UN Resolution for a ceasefire putting an end to the ongoing anti-Palestinian genocide by Israel makes it clear that all UN security council members should be stripped of veto powers, the powers that enabled the US, with one vote against thirteen, preventing the stopping of the historic inhumanity being carried out by its Israeli protege.

Removing such disproportionate powers from individual nations is crucial  for the well being of the world, as the UN moves towards being a true democracy, not an ultimately toothless gathering dominated by the powerful subjugating  everyone else.

In such domination, is the UN truly a United Nations or another colonial contraption? 

How can the change from the illusion of a United Nations to an actual unity of nations, as equals, be achieved?

Is it possible for all nations to withdraw from the UN until this strategic move is implemented?


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More about him here: https://independent.academia.edu/ChidiAnthonyOpara

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Moses Ochonu

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Dec 10, 2023, 10:22:14 AM12/10/23
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Good luck finding the UN members, most of whom are dependent on or fearful of offending the five permanent members, who will vote to strip the five veto countries of the vetos.

Remember that many of those same UN members have their own human rights violations and oppression infrastructures and that when their cases came before the UN Security Council as resolutions, they relied on their allies among the 5 permanent members to veto such resolutions.

Let’s not even talk about how some members of the 5, especially China and Russia, will not allow such a reform because they routinely use their veto power to kill unanimously agreed resolutions on their own and their allies’ crimes.

China has vetoed many resolutions on Taiwan, Myanmar, North Korea, and the plight of the Muslim Uyghurs.

Russia has vetoed many UN resolutions concerning its unprovoked invasion of and genocidal wars in Ukraine, Georgia, Chechnya, etc

Curiously, most people only call for the reform of the veto system of the UN Security Council, a necessary change, when Western members—US, Britain, and France—use their veto power to block resolutions. When China and Russia do the same, it is met by a whimper.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 10, 2023, at 7:44 AM, Chidi Anthony Opara, FIIM, CDOA <chidi...@gmail.com> wrote:

(international)politics and diplomacy are based on realism rather than on idealism.
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Toyin Falola

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Dec 10, 2023, 11:07:27 AM12/10/23
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Can the Global South not create its own system?
When a conversation is usually not yours, why join in that conversation?
From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Moses Ochonu <meoc...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2023 3:21:04 PM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - UN Security Council Members Should be Stripped of Veto Powers in the Interest of Global Safety
 

Harrow, Kenneth

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Dec 10, 2023, 12:12:31 PM12/10/23
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Is the global south different from the global north? If so, how? Or could the differences of the past (colonialism, slavery, material conditions) begun to have faded, or even disappeared, or no longer be relevant?
One word answers not welcome.
Ken 

Kenneth Harrow
Emeritus Professor of English, Michigan State University
Harrow@msu/edu

From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Toyin Falola <toyin...@austin.utexas.edu>
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2023 10:44:04 AM

Moses Ochonu

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Dec 10, 2023, 12:12:32 PM12/10/23
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The AU is an example of how futile such “global south” geopolitical configurations can be in the current global system. The AU HQ in Addis was built by China. Go figure.

The way to go is to do something similar to what India, North Korea, and Iran have done: build your economic, technological, and military strength up and force the five permanent members of the UN sec council to reckon with you.

They will line up, one after the other, to either court or undermine you, which will give you the leverage to strategically align yourself with one or more of the 5 members, or even alternate your alliance between them.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 10, 2023, at 10:07 AM, Toyin Falola <toyin...@austin.utexas.edu> wrote:



Chidi Anthony Opara, FIIM, CDOA

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Dec 10, 2023, 12:12:32 PM12/10/23
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How realistic is this?

-CAO.


On Sunday 10 December 2023, Toyin Falola <toyin...@austin.utexas.edu> wrote:
Can the Global South not create its own system?
When a conversation is usually not yours, why join in that conversation?

Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2023 3:21:04 PM

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Toyin Falola

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Dec 10, 2023, 12:20:15 PM12/10/23
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The West is 30 % of the global population. In the coalition of the Global South, they have to think about the use and distribution of their resources. This idea is not new—organic intellectuals since Marcus Garvey has been saying it.

In reimagining the world, the future should not be based on violence, but a global flow of peace.

 

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Toyin Falola

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Dec 10, 2023, 12:20:15 PM12/10/23
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Yes, a division based on asymmetry.

 

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Harrow, Kenneth

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Dec 10, 2023, 12:24:14 PM12/10/23
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How radically things have changed. When we figure china is by far the largest player in africa, that the old colonial powers have faded or been rejected, that the u.s. even is peanuts compared with china, then it is time to recobfigure our vocabulary and thinking. I read some time ago that angola had been pressed by portugal on its human rights (fair enough). Turns out portugal had borrowed from angola, the tables were turned, the old subaltern had become the new master, and portugal had nothing to say.

That said, who will now stand for human rights? Not china.
Ken

Kenneth Harrow
Emeritus Professor of English, Michigan State University
Harrow@msu/edu

Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2023 12:05:35 PM

Toyin Falola

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Dec 10, 2023, 12:24:14 PM12/10/23
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What do you mean by “realistic”?

To imagine a future, you ground it in dreams and the conscience that follows. A world created a violence should be reconfigured.

 

From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Chidi Anthony Opara, FIIM, CDOA <chidi...@gmail.com>


Date: Sunday, December 10, 2023 at 6:12 PM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - UN Security Council Members Should be Stripped of Veto Powers in the Interest of Global Safety

How realistic is this?

 

-CAO.

On Sunday 10 December 2023, Toyin Falola <toyin...@austin.utexas.edu> wrote:

Can the Global South not create its own system?

When a conversation is usually not yours, why join in that conversation?

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Moses Ebe Ochonu

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Dec 10, 2023, 1:44:35 PM12/10/23
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In many cases, the countries of the Global South can't even mine their resources, let alone adding value to them through refinement and other industrial processes. In both instances, they rely on countries of the Global North and increasingly China and Russia. Why is China able to do the resource-for-capital swap deals it has been doing with African countries? Many African states can't even extract the resources from the ground without the help of China, Russia, and the countries of the Global North that have now become the hackneyed bete noire of our analysis.

Toyin Falola

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But the idea of human rights under the leadership of the US is now discredited. It has lost the moral right to lead.

 

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Moses Ochonu

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Dec 10, 2023, 2:28:34 PM12/10/23
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Unless one is a neocon and/or an unconditional apologist for American hegemony, the idea of a universal human rights regime under American leadership had little or no credibility before the Gaza war. Trump made sure of that. But even before Trump the drone wars, the Iraq invasion, the support for allied authoritarian regimes, the sponsorship of coups, the endorsement of flawed elections, and the hypocrisy of its own human rights violations in its anti-terror operations had already discredited US claims to being the bastion and leader of global human rights.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 10, 2023, at 12:44 PM, Toyin Falola <toyin...@austin.utexas.edu> wrote:



Toyin Falola

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A rentier state creates a lazy political elite.

But how long does it take to generate the capacity to mine? Those who mine use African labor.

 

Dompere, Kofi Kissi

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Dec 10, 2023, 3:54:58 PM12/10/23
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GREETINGS, THE FAMILY,

AT THIS MOMENT OF TIME , THE UN MUST REORGANIZED TO INCLUDE VETO-OVERIDDING CONDITIONS WITH  SECRETE BALLOTS.

KOFI.

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Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - UN Security Council Members Should be Stripped of Veto Powers in the Interest of Global Safety

 

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Harrow, Kenneth

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Dec 10, 2023, 3:54:58 PM12/10/23
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I agree that the hypocrisy of the west has undermined their authority to claim leadership for human rights. Why throw away the baby with the bathwater? The global south should insist on reading human rights with their own values at stake. But consider this: who fights for gay rights, say in uganda. It is those warriors for decency that i’d want to support. 
Ken

Kenneth Harrow
Emeritus Professor of English, Michigan State University
Harrow@msu/edu

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Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2023 1:51:07 PM

Joseph Bangura

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Dec 10, 2023, 3:54:58 PM12/10/23
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Spot on, Moses! Succinct analysis!
Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 10, 2023, at 12:12 PM, Moses Ochonu <meoc...@gmail.com> wrote:

The AU is an example of how futile such “global south” geopolitical configurations can be in the current global system. The AU HQ in Addis was built by China. Go figure.

Chidi Anthony Opara, FIIM, CDOA

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Dec 10, 2023, 3:55:09 PM12/10/23
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I almost fainted the day I was reliably informed that it was(and may be still is) Shell and other other oil and gas drilling partners that inform the Nigerian oil and gas corporation(representing the Nigerian state), the number of barrels of crude oil drilled daily. 

The import being that the Nigerian state relied on these foreign oil and gas majors operating as joint venture partners for statistics of the country's daily crude oil output.

-CAO.


On Sunday 10 December 2023, Moses Ebe Ochonu <meoc...@gmail.com> wrote:
In many cases, the countries of the Global South can't even mine their resources, let alone adding value to them through refinement and other industrial processes. In both instances, they rely on countries of the Global North and increasingly China and Russia. Why is China able to do the resource-for-capital swap deals it has been doing with African countries? Many African states can't even extract the resources from the ground without the help of China, Russia, and the countries of the Global North that have now become the hackneyed bete noire of our analysis.

On Sun, Dec 10, 2023 at 11:20 AM Toyin Falola <toyin...@austin.utexas.edu> wrote:

The West is 30 % of the global population. In the coalition of the Global South, they have to think about the use and distribution of their resources. This idea is not new—organic intellectuals since Marcus Garvey has been saying it.

In reimagining the world, the future should not be based on violence, but a global flow of peace.

 

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Moses Ochonu <meoc...@gmail.com>
Date: Sunday, December 10, 2023 at 6:12 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - UN Security Council Members Should be Stripped of Veto Powers in the Interest of Global Safety

The AU is an example of how futile such “global south” geopolitical configurations can be in the current global system. The AU HQ in Addis was built by China. Go figure.

 

The way to go is to do something similar to what India, North Korea, and Iran have done: build your economic, technological, and military strength up and force the five permanent members of the UN sec council to reckon with you.

 

They will line up, one after the other, to either court or undermine you, which will give you the leverage to strategically align yourself with one or more of the 5 members, or even alternate your alliance between them.

Sent from my iPhone



On Dec 10, 2023, at 10:07 AM, Toyin Falola <toyin...@austin.utexas.edu> wrote:



Can the Global South not create its own system?

When a conversation is usually not yours, why join in that conversation?

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Joseph Bangura

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Dec 10, 2023, 5:16:03 PM12/10/23
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Great. 👍
Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 10, 2023, at 12:20 PM, Toyin Falola <toyin...@austin.utexas.edu> wrote:



Toyin Falola

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Dec 10, 2023, 5:16:15 PM12/10/23
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Unlike Saudi Arabia, Nigeria has not created the technological capacity to monitor the transactions.

And you are aware of the theft as well.

 

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Dr. Oohay

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Dec 10, 2023, 5:16:29 PM12/10/23
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What does it mean geopolitically, ideologically, economically, and philosophically to be a “good” member of the United Nations?

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Emeagwali, Gloria (History)

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Dec 10, 2023, 5:16:49 PM12/10/23
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This is going to change.It is not a 
permanent condition. The recent 
deal between Mali and Russia,
for a gold processing plant within
Mali 🇲🇱 is promising.Burkina Faso
and Mali will follow given their
regional integration.
Botswana has been processing its 
diamonds for quite a while in cutting,
 polishing, and perhaps jewelry 
manufacture.



Professor Gloria Emeagwali
Prof. of History/African Studies, CCSU
africahistory.net; vimeo.com/ gloriaemeagwali
Recipient of the 2014 Distinguished Research
Excellence Award, Univ. of Texas at Austin;
2019 Distinguished Africanist Award
New York African Studies Association

From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Moses Ebe Ochonu <meoc...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2023 12:47 PM

To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - UN Security Council Members Should be Stripped of Veto Powers in the Interest of Global Safety
 

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