What Did SA President Hope to Gain by Visiting Trump?
Oluwatoyin Adepoju
Dr. Oohay
Can someone help me understand what the SA President thought he would gain by visiting Trump and what he has actually gained?There are some things it is better to suffer by not doing them instead of doing them in the name of gaining something.
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Victor Okafor
“I myself do not judge a man [or a woman] by the color of his [or her] skin. The yardstick that I use to judge a man [or a woman] is his [ or her] deeds, his [her] behavior, and his [or her] intentions." -- Malcolm X.
Can someone help me understand what the SA President thought he would gain by visiting Trump and what he has actually gained?There are some things it is better to suffer by not doing them instead of doing them in the name of gaining something.
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Oluwatoyin Adepoju
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Cornelius Hamelberg
Oluwatoyin is fond of asking the sort of provocative rhetorical questions that he himself is more than capable of answering. He is African, he is Black, he doesn't need a watch, he looks up at the midday sun over there in Lagos and he knows what time it is. He also knows that “A tiger doesn't proclaim his tigritude, he pounces”
Otherwise, diseases such as Racism, “White Supremacy”, “Apartheid” , Antisemitism,
“The 'Negro' in Arab-Muslim Consciousness”
// https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJSEf54E5HQ&list=WL&index=258
etc will never be cured.
Does he agree with the clear meanings in the song
Stand Up and Fight Back, You’ve Got Nothing To Lose ?
Oluwatoyin asks, “ … what the SA President thought he would gain by visiting Trump and what he has actually gained?”
Fact: After China, the US is South Africa’s second biggest trading partner. Ramapahosa, a businessman himself, would not like to endanger that by antagonising a vengeful Trump. So like a seasoned diplomat Rama smiled, wasn’t confrontational, laughed heartily when Trump joked.
According to the BBC, “Before Wednesday's White House meeting, South Africa's leader stressed that improving trade relations with the US was his priority. South African exports into the US face a 30% tariff once a pause on Trump's new import taxes ends in July.” Apparently Ramaphosa succeeded in maintaining the peace at the oval office. Ramaphosa did not cut off his nose to spite his face
In my opinion, in the given circumstances - including Trump’s so-called “ambush”, President Ramaphosa’s dignified performance was a resounding success. As he told Trump, ”We were taught by Nelson Mandela that whenever there are problems, people need to sit down around a table and talk about them" That’s what he did with some wonderful assistance from John Steenhuisen South Africa’s Minister of Agriculture, fortuitously or as pre-arranged, sitting directly opposite Trump, and of exactly the same colour as South Africa’s alleged threatened species, the White Farmers
This world’s but not the second world, the third world or ( after the resurrection) the next world’s chess champion, Dr Oohay is still harping on one of his favourite mantras “Certain geo-political international games AIN’T for any player of checkers —- only CHESS or Omaha Poker players”
The bigger picture : Trump and true to the Emma Lazarus ethos The New Colossus, he could start an open-door policy for all members of the alleged persecuted white minority that are threatened with genocide not in Gaza but in post-Apartheid South Africa. For a surety they will all probably campaign for him as their champion if he decides to run again in November, 2028
However, in my opinion, much of what Julius Malema so passionately advocates falls squarely into the category known as Hate Speech.
So, as per definition, we have some extraordinary examples of
(a1) Julius Malema and Hate Speech
(a2) Julius Malema and incitement
The seriousness of hate speech and its effects have been exacerbated by the tragic fatal shooting of two of Israel’s Embassy Staff in Washington., a soon to be engaged couple which is being described as an anti-Semitic crime, an accurate description when hate speech as legally defined in some democratic countries cannot be differentiated from anti-Semitic hatred and incitement.
So, as a result of these two latest so-called anti-Semitic murders, the implementation of hate speech laws will probably be sharpened.
As somebody once said,” If music be the food of love, play on !”
So here’s Mdou Moctar
But perhaps not just now, because according to Islamic tradition when Cain killed Abel,
Have you read Aminatta Forna’s ”The Devil That Danced on the Water” ?
Gloria Emeagwali
Oluwatoyin Adepoju
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Victor Okafor
I am just elaborating on my previous answer, which is as follows.
First, yours was a great question!
1. President Ramaphosa was ambushed, which is an indictment of South Africa's Intelligence apparatus.
2. It turned out that Ramaphosa was not invited to visit Washington. He invited himself. Guess what happens whenever anyone invites himself or herself to your abode.
3. President Trump did not seem happy that Ramaphosa visited, for, during the open meeting, he publicly wondered how Ramaphosa had been able to get his phone number through which he requested to visit. Trump's question underscored his discomfort with the unwanted guest.
4. Ramaphosa looked weak, helpless, beggarly, dependent, and old-fashioned in terms of resorting to the ineffectual African leadership’s playbook of looking outward, instead of inward, for answers to national and continental socioeconomic and regional security challenges. What a dependent mentality! Their often-repeated emphasis on bringing in external investors, as opposed to harnessing the bountiful natural and human resources lying within their domains, has always puzzled me. Don’t get me wrong. Yes, external investors are desirable and helpful, but that should not and cannot serve as the mainstay of a national economy. Internal productive energies need to be emphasized. African control of African natural resources is an important prerequisite. And, I dare say that this point in time in world affairs is an apt moment for African leaders to seriously tap the potential inherent in the African Continental Free Trade Area’s framework for boosting intra-African trade and thus re-energizing their national economies. Consider this: Africa's intra-Africa trade accounts for a paltry 15% of Africa's total trade. Contrast this with Asia’s (59%) and Europe's (68%). This 15% score speaks volumes about the mentality of we Africans—how some of us tend to look down on things African and lust for all things "foreign." Is it not a puzzle that only 15% of Africa's total trade comes from intra-Africa trade despite the existence of the African Continental Free Trade Area (AfCFTA), and regional economic coordinating blocs, such as AMU, CEN-SAD, COMESA, EAC, ECCAS, ECOWAS, IGAD, and SADC? Do all these exist on paper, or are they only partially functioning? If the latter, why can’t the constituent countries do better? Why, why, why? How do we end up with leaders that continually produce this type of sub-optimal outcome? Why must we always rank at the bottom in the global race of life, even in areas that are under our near-total control, such as intra-African trade? Please, don’t remind me of the consequences of neo-colonialism, the consequences of the balkanization of Africa? We can redirect and take charge of our future. See how Burkina Faso is doing it. Instead of waiting to enter the Oppressor’s house, Burkina Faso decided to build its own house under the enlightened leadership of President Ibrahim Traoré. Yes, we know that the same forces that have, for centuries, held Africa under bondage are trying to undermine him. But fear should not deter us from doing what needs to be done. Yes, we can! Yes, we can!
5. As an African, I felt let down by Ramaphosa's voicing of technical incapacity on the part of his country as the whole world watched. Imagine the disgrace of a South African leadership team's public expression of a wish for the acquisition of drone technology assistance from an external source? Is South Africa not supposed to be a major military power in Africa with a strong manufacturing base? Are we to believe that, despite what we had assumed, all along, to be the presence of world-class universities and research institutes in South Africa, the second economic powerhouse in Africa (second to Nigeria) is not able to manufacture drones at this point in the 21st century? This reminds me of how the corrupt ruling elites in South Africa have so mismanaged that country's electrical power supply system that they have reproduced Nigeria's legendary ineptitude in the area of power supply. It seems that both countries are now competing for who can win the race of ineptitude in electrical power production.
6. Watching helpless Ramaphosa the other day was like watching a high-profile exhibition of all that's deficient in contemporary African political leadership. Though he must have been understandably disoriented by Trump’s ambush, as the whole world watched, Ramaphosa could not stand tall for either his country or Africa. He reinforced the world's image of Africa as a basket case. What a disastrous visit! He is unquestionably a part of an Old School that needs to give way to the type of ideological visioning represented by the Julius Malemas, the Ibrahim Toures, the Musevenis, and the Kagames of the contemporary African political landscape.
7. Finally, I strongly condemn majoritarian victimization of the minority in any polity. All humankind must agree on this principle. Even though we are aware of the Afrikaner white minority regime’s long years of victimization, subjugation, and brutalization of the African majority during the official decades of Apartheid, the South Africans did agree to hang on together as one country under a new multi-racial democracy. They put themselves through a Peace and Reconciliation process. That said, the Afrikaner population owes it as a civic duty not to reopen old wounds by advocating for a separate country for themselves within the geopolitical space of South Africa. They must unlearn the white superiority ideology of Apartheid by which they were acculturated and then learn to see their fellow Black citizens as their biological equals. In addition, for the sake of South Africa’s internal peace, stability, and progress, the land question must be equitably resolved. The country’s natural resources, including the precious minerals, are the collective property of South Africa. Where this is not the case, the political leadership must find a way to make it so. The massive inequities within the South African political economy have led to disasters, such as recurrent deadly violence against fellow Africans who reside in South Africa because the marauding mob sees them as people who have "taken their jobs," a phenomenon which the media have reported as xenophobia. Given what we have read about fleeing white farmers, it looks like this sword of xenophobia is beginning to turn inwards. But this is not the way to be. It is not sustainable.
Finally, the political leadership owes it as a duty to maintain the tenets of South Africa’s multi-racial democracy even as it takes just steps to remedy the socioeconomic inequities created by decades of Apartheid rule, brutalization, and subjugation of the African majority. Yes, the land question must be tackled, but in a way that does not bring about disruptive consequences for South Africa’s leading role in the area of agricultural productivity. The country, nah, all countries need peace and internal equilibrium to be able to forge ahead.
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Oluwatoyin Adepoju
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Cornelius Hamelberg
Where is the respect?
In my view, you are being grossly unfair to President Cyril Ramaphosa.
I would like to address some of the main points you make, blow by blow. It will take some time of course, so I’ll begin with your very first point, as a sacred duty, the rest will follow in subsequent posts, I promise.
# “President Ramaphosa was ambushed, which is an indictment of South Africa's Intelligence apparatus”
Being an echo chamber for perceptions made by an amused, mollified or race-baiting propaganda press is not kosher and does not grant that kind of perception any legitimacy. First of all, President Ramaphosa was not “ ambushed”, not even in the jungle guerrilla sense of the word. He and his chosen team arrived at the oval office well prepared to take on any nonsense about “White genocide” in South Africa. Nor should fake news purveying, in this case, with the malicious intent to malign, mislead and deceive with the unexpected fake photos of South Africa that turned up on Trump’s lap be taken as “an indictment of South Africa's Intelligence apparatus”. That first impression must have prevailed, momentarily, until the fact-checking corrected the intentional lies and shamed the devil, once again.
As Jesus once told that ilk ( New International Version),
“You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.”
Next the Boers might be saying, in accordance with the theology of the Dutch Reformed Church Church, that “God” not greed gave them the land / the farms in South Africa, Wisconsin, Mississippi, Texas and Tennessee…
Trump’s failed attempt however does not necessarily mean that Defiant Lawyers did not go overboard in their latest video about Trump trying to humiliate South Africa’s Black president and by implication and extension ,the rest of the race of Black human beings.
So, who’s side are you on ?
Cornelius Hamelberg
Whose side are we on ?
You say,
#2. It turned out that Ramaphosa was not invited to visit Washington. He invited himself. Guess what happens whenever anyone invites himself or herself to your abode.
#3. President Trump did not seem happy that Ramaphosa visited, for, during the open meeting, he publicly wondered how Ramaphosa had been able to get his phone number through which he requested to visit. Trump's question underscored his discomfort with the unwanted guest.
Unlike, in the movie Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner, President Ramaphosa invited himself? Does that ever happen? Can it? Circumventing the usual red tape and defying all diplomatic protocols, can Tinubu, Mahama, or any of your favourite African presidents and wannabe presidents, the “Julius Malemas, the Ibrahim Toures, the Musevenis, and the Kagames of the contemporary African political landscape” just pick up the phone, dial Trump’s secret number and before you can exclaim “Christopher Columbus " they’re in the Oval Office and Trump is joking, wondering aloud , “How did you get my number?”
Of course not!
According to one of Trump’s favourite maga-zines : Ramaphosa
It’s Trump’s the art of the deal, which means that above all Trump would like to do anything, and from the creative tools at his disposal at the devil’s workshop, do everything possible to detach Ramaphosa and South Africa from the BRICS bandwagon, from the threats that BRICS poses to making America Great Again, and to attach Ramaphosa and South Africa with ever stronger bonds to Trump’s favourite currency, the American Dollar.
All’s fair in love and war ? So what does Trump do apart from trying to put Ramaphosa in a defensive position by accusing him of “White Genocide” ? Toyin Adepoju wonders how Ramaphosa could expect any favours from Trump an enabler of the ongoing genocide in Gaza . Well, it’s a war going on and in the gospel according to Donald Trump, it’s America First!
I don’t know whether or not Trump invited himself to Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and the UAE, or it was they that invited him, but as Gause puts it about Trump’s visit to the aforementioned countries, “My line on this is that Trump did his first scheduled foreign trip to these three countries for the same reason that Willie Sutton robbed banks: That’s where the money is.”
And that’s what was made clear about those gold mines in South Africa, and Ramaphosa's importance as Africa’s main player in BRICS
Trump may be fantasizing about transforming Gaza into the Middle East’s Riviera playground or paradise and most probably also thinking about how wonderful it would be to grab some of the precious oil and gas that God deposited just off the Gaza Coast ,giving rise to not “cherchez la femme”, but “it’s the money, stupid! “ -and in his MAGA quest, even his enemies will admit that Trump has a good nose for money
Cornelius Hamelberg
#4. Ramaphosa looked weak, helpless, beggarly, dependent, and old-fashioned in terms of resorting to the ineffectual African leadership’s playbook of looking outward, instead of inward, for answers to national and continental socioeconomic and regional security challenges…
Here too, “ Beauty is in the eye of the beholder”.
I watched the whole event live and direct on CNN , and at no time did Cyril Ramaphosa, the Black and Beautiful President of South Africa, in any way look “weak” , “helpless” , “beggarly”, “dependent", “Old fashioned” or “incompetent”. On the contrary, as the seasoned diplomat and gentleman that he is, he was prepared, dignified, composed, easily mastered the situation , took control, and passed the test with flying colours.
What did you want him to do ? Some militants would have much preferred that uncharacteristically, President Ramaphosa should have entered the Oval Office guns blazing, for the mother of all shootout with Trump, JD Vance his deputy sheriff and Trump’s bodyguards , all to be caught live on camera, by the assembled world press and distributed via Associated Press ? No doubt in such a scenario some would have prayed that in the middle of the anticipated heated altercation that some of the so called Pan-Africanists would fondly like to imagine, due to the unexpectedness of such hostility towards the leader of the free world - God forbid - that Trump would have had a heart attack, collapsed and perished at an instance, right there in the Oval Office, the whole event to have been broadcast live with some crocodile tears on CGTN - China’s CGTN and Iran’s Press TV…
So , since beauty is in the eye of the beholder, Trump calculated that everybody would see red when he displayed those fake ad misericordiam photographs as evidence of an ongoing Genocide of his brethren , the long-suffering White Farmers, when in fact according to South Africa’s murder statistics for 2024 if we checked how many people were murdered last year, we would find that the number of white farmers murdered was less than 1%
No doubt , if it was Julius Malema that had met Trump in the Oval Office a few days ago, the outcome of such a confrontation would have been very different.
I visited my friend Vjecko Benzon ( a great drummer) at his Facebook page Vj Benzon and these popped up :
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Kkvu8RMlV6o
Is this the best Speech of Julius Malema in 2025?
Malema’s response to Trump :
Julius Malema’s Equality Warning & Rising African Tensions with the West | Afrifreedom Report
The rest of that #4 ..” in terms of resorting to the ineffectual African leadership’s playbook of looking outward, instead of inward, for answers to national and continental socioeconomic and regional security challenges” etc to be addressed later…
Back in the day : Harry Belafonte : Paradise in Gazankulu
Dr. Oohay
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Cornelius Hamelberg
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Victor Okafor
“I myself do not judge a man [or a woman] by the color of his [or her] skin. The yardstick that I use to judge a man [or a woman] is his [ or her] deeds, his [her] behavior, and his [or her] intentions." -- Malcolm X.
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Victor Okafor
“I myself do not judge a man [or a woman] by the color of his [or her] skin. The yardstick that I use to judge a man [or a woman] is his [ or her] deeds, his [her] behavior, and his [or her] intentions." -- Malcolm X.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/usaafricadialogue/5543aeae-aff3-43b2-b675-6c84b80755c0n%40googlegroups.com.