Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: RCCG LEADER, ADEBOYE NAMED AMONG WORLD'S...

[Olaka...@aol.com]

Sodun:

 

I think you missed the point.

 

The miracle world demands a suspension of

disbelief and common sense.

 

Distances and directions

are only relevant in the real world that most of us inhabit.

They have no place in the miracle world that is inhabited by spirits, angels

and ghosts.

 

I grew up in and around Lagos. I know you can't be 200 miles (320 kilometres) away and

be "on a dangerous highway around Lagos."

 

If you drive only 40 kms  farther south from the Redeemed Church Headquarters at the southern end of the Lagos Ibadan Expressway you will end up in the Atlantic Ocean. If you go in  a straight north ward direction you will pass Ibadan and land at Ilorin before you exhaust most of the 320 kms, Going in a northwestern direction will take you through Ijebuode- on the way to Ore and you will be more than half on your way to Benin city before most of your 320 kilometres are exhausted.

 

Please stop asking difficult questions!

 

Bye,

 

Ol

 

In a message dated 23/12/2008 4:53:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, so...@multilinks.com writes:

Forgive my failure to instantly believe, but if his tank ran dry on a 'dangerous stretch of highway' near Lagos, in which direction was he driving for 200 km?  Was it 200 km of dangerous highway?  Was he going TO Lagos or FROM Lagos?  Did he deliberately avoid Ibadan?  Or the Atlantic Ocean?  Benin Republic?  Epe?  I mean, if you are near Lagos, how far are you going to go - even if some petrol stations are empty?

 

Ayo

----- Original Message -----

From: wa...@comcast.net

To: USAAfric...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 3:01 PM

Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: RCCG LEADER, ADEBOYE NAMED AMONG WORLD'S MOS...

The Nigerian miracle is alive. 200 miles about Lagos, and driving on empty tank? How did the Overseer know that his tank was empty? Did the car stop or God just spoke?

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Olaka...@aol.com

 

 

""Adeboye experienced a miracle recently on a long and dangerous stretch of highway near Lagos, he says. His car was out of gas, and the gas stations were empty. Then God spoke to him, clearly, and said to keep driving. Adeboye drove 200 miles on empty. Could his gas gauge have been broken? No, he insists, God intervened "because of the need … in a crisis." Adeboye knows well what some in the West have forgotten: in today's world, everyone needs a Daddy.""--Newsweek article

_________________________________________________________________________________

There goes my plans for a hybrid vehicle such as the Toyota Prius in 2009.

No wonder Toyota Inc. is in financial  trouble. Who needs a hybrid when just by praying

one can drive 200 kms. on an empty tank.

Bye,

 

Ola

In a message dated 22/12/2008 2:47:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Akan...@aol.com writes:

Seamus Murphy / Getty Images for Newsweek

E. A. Adeboye

THE GLOBAL ELITE

49: E. A. Adeboye

A Pentecostal preacher from Nigeria has made big plans to save your soul.

By Lisa Miller | NEWSWEEK

Published Dec 20, 2008

From the magazine issue dated Jan 5, 2009

 

 

 You may never have heard of E. A. Adeboye, but the pastor of The Redeemed Christian Church of God is one of the most successful preachers in the world. He boasts that his church has outposts in 110 countries. He has 14,000 branches—claiming 5 million members—in his home country of Nigeria alone. There are 360 RCCG churches in Britain, and about the same number in U.S. cities like Chicago, Dallas, and Tallahassee, Fla. Adeboye says he has sent missionaries to China and such Islamic countries as Pakistan and Malaysia. His aspirations are outsize. He wants to save souls, and he wants to do so by planting churches the way Starbucks used to build coffee shops: everywhere.

"In the developing world we say we want churches to be within five minutes' walk of every person," he tells NEWSWEEK. "In the developed world, we say five minutes of driving." Such a goal may seem outlandish, but Adeboye is a Pentecostal preacher: he believes in miracles. And Pentecostalism is the biggest, fastest-growing Christian movement since the Reformation.

One of the strangest images from the 2008 campaign was the YouTube clip of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin in church, head bowed, palms turned up toward heaven, standing silently as Thomas Muthee, a Pentecostal preacher from Kenya, prayed for her freedom from witchcraft. The clip (and a NEWSWEEK article about it) triggered its own little culture skirmish, with secular observers calling Palin a "wack job" and conservative Christians responding "There's nothing wrong with her church!!!" Few commentators on either side noted how normal that scene was to hundreds of millions of Christians around the globe.

The world now has about 600 million Pentecostals, the largest group of Christians after Roman Catholics. In Asia, the number of Pentecostals has grown from about 10 million to 166 million since 1970, according to the Center for the Study of Global Christianity at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary. In Latin America, Pentecostals have expanded from 13 million to 151 million; in North America, from 19 million to 77 million; and in Africa, from 18 million to 156 million. By 2050 most of Africa will be Christian, estimates Grant Wacker, professor of Christian history at Duke University—and most of those Christians will be Pentecostals.

Modern Pentecostalism was born in America in the early 20th century, when a former Methodist minister named Charles Parham began teaching that Christians who were filled with the Holy Spirit could, like the disciples of Jesus, speak in tongues. (The sound, for those who have not heard it, is extraordinary: like crooning or keening or jibber jabber.) From the start, the faith appealed across ethnic lines to the poor and the marginalized. Its lack of denominational structure meant "you didn't have to have a highly trained and educated clergy with a long graduate education," says Vinson Synan, dean emeritus of the divinity school at Regent University. "Common people [were] pastoring common people." Televangelist healers like Oral Roberts helped keep the movement growing.

Pentecostals believe that the Holy Spirit is always at work in the world and that certain people possess its gifts: speaking in tongues, the healing touch, the power to cast out demons and witches. An emphasis on prosperity and healing attracts converts without savings accounts or health insurance. The emphasis on Biblical inerrancy and on rigid social rules—no drinking, no smoking, no premarital sex—offers structure for people whose lives have been devastated by addiction or illness. In places like Africa (and indeed, like Palin's Alaska at the turn of the last century), Pentecostalism finds fertile ground among adherents of native religions who already believe the world is alive with spirits.

By Pentecostal standards, Adeboye is mainstream. Formerly a mathematics instructor at the University of Lagos, he began working at RCCG translating the previous pastor's sermons from Yoruba to English. He took over the congregation in 1981. His success, he says, is rooted in his message. "Pentecostals have such an impact because they talk of the here and now, not just the by and by, he says. "We pray for the sick, but we pray for their prosperity, for their overcoming of evil forces and so on. While we have to worry about heaven, there are some things God could do for us in the here and now." At a recent revival meeting in London, Adeboye and his ministers preached 12 hours straight to a crowd of 30,000. At the altar call, hundreds of people rushed toward the stage from every corner of the arena, visibly filled with euphoria. They call their pastor "Daddy."

Behind Adeboye's extraordinary success is his reputation for honesty. While other Pentecostal pastors (including some Nigerians) have been accused of financial misdeeds or faking supernatural powers, Adeboye remains above the fray. Nigerian government leaders seek his input on pressing social issues. He recently made a public-service announcement condemning discrimination against people with HIV. He distributes his message globally through Facebook and MySpace, a self-published magazine called "The Mandate," and a digital-cable channel called Open Heavens TV. His appearance is straitlaced: he always wears a pinstriped suit, a gleaming white shirt and a bow tie.

Adeboye experienced a miracle recently on a long and dangerous stretch of highway near Lagos, he says. His car was out of gas, and the gas stations were empty. Then God spoke to him, clearly, and said to keep driving. Adeboye drove 200 miles on empty. Could his gas gauge have been broken? No, he insists, God intervened "because of the need … in a crisis." Adeboye knows well what some in the West have forgotten: in today's world, everyone needs a Daddy.

---

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[Olaka...@aol.com]

 

Professor Adesanmi:

 

I think you have graduated from an observer (student) to a full fledged inductee.

 

You are already a true believer. I think you should be negotiating to establish a franchise of the Redeemed  or Mountain of Fire Church  at the Carleton Univeristy campus in Ottawa with yourself as the preacher and the local overseer.

 

Bye,

 

Ola

 

 

In a message dated 23/12/2008 11:02:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, piusad...@yahoo.com writes:

All of you are missing the point - the little psychological comforts that the followers of this Daddy General Overseer draw from such exutory voyages in (apologies to Edward Said). In a huge joke of a country held hostage by orangutans in Abuja, extreme hardship creates the industry of escape that pentecostalism represents. People need to voyage desperately into something; they need to voyage away from the Nigeria manufactured and supervised by the integrity-challenged buffoons in Abuja. Enter Enoch Adeboye, William Kumuyi, Chris Oyakhilome, David Oyedepo, Helen Ukpabio, creating colonies of pyrrhic happiness for an unquestioning community of faith. In engaging the exutory narratives of the Daddy General Overseers/Founders/General Superintendents et caetera et ceatera of Nigerian pentecostal denominations, we ask the wrong questions when we bring logic, science,  and reason to the table. Hence, how is it possible to travel 200 kilometres on an empty tank, when Lagos - Ibadan is only about 117 kilometres or less. At 200 kilometres, he would be in the atlantic ocean or Benin Republic. Those are rational, logical questions thrown at a phenomenon operating at other realms. We are chasing the wind when we use such modalities. When was the last time this former Professor of mathematics - Kumuyi too was once a professor of mathematics. What is wrong with that discipline? - pretended to logic, reason, and scientifically plausible explanations of phenomena? Adeboye parted ways with Rene Descartes in the early 1980s. The proper epistemic/ethical question(s) should be: do we, as students of the social, not have the obligation to pay closer attention to people's right to create these alternative realities and 'possess their possessions' in chthonic realms when such possessions (road, light, water, human rights, jobs, security, basic respect of citizens' life etc) are denied them in the real, circumambient world by what is arguably the most irresponsible state in Africa? Try to picture the joy in the eyes of the faithful when they listened to Daddy General Overseer give the testimony of this miracle in his megachurch on the Lagos-Ibadan expressway. Daddy drove for 200 kilometres without gas. Somebody shout amen!  That's one week of bliss, happiness, and pure nirvana for his followers. Take them out of the opiate happiness of this narrative and what do they have left? Yar'Adua's Nigeria. Personally, I'll take Enoch Adeboye's opium. Any time, anyday. Just don't give me Yar'Adua's Nigeria. Anything but Yar'Adua's Nigeria. One thing I never miss when I'm home is my scholarly-observer presence on the Lagos-Ibadan expressway. I love to attend those churches - Redeem, Mountain of Fire, Christ Embassy etc. If you are a scholar in the Humanities and you don't attend those churches while in Nigeria, you are missing fantastic material. Apart from being a student of the rich diction of Nigerian pentecostals, I love the part of their service when they give testimonies. That is when you are faced with the tragedy of Nigeria. Everything that is taken for granted in Cotonou and Accra is an occasion for flowery testimonies and shouting festivals in these churches: "my son's naming ceremony was approaching. Our generator had broken down and there was no diesel to run it anyway. So we went to Daddy General Overseer and he went with us to the Lord in prayer. For seven days we prayed and fasted. We came against the spirit of darkness. We came against every contrary spirit. We bound every power, every dominion, every principality in NEPA. And you won't believe this, on D day, NEPA did not take light for the entire 3 hours my son's naming ceremony lasted. Yes, we had electricity from NEPA for the whole three hours!! Somebody shout two hundred and a half halleluyahs to my father in heaven!!!" Do we come to this testimony with lessons in reason, progress, rationality, and the minimal functions of a state that most Nigerians have forgotten? Or do we respect and engage the three hours of sanity and happiness that Enoch Adeboye's alternative world has afforded this testimonee in Nigeria's draconian context of insanity?   Pius Pius Adesanmi, Ph.D. Associate Professor Director, Project on New African Literatures (PONAL) Department of English Carleton University Ottawa, Canada K1S 5B6 Tel: +1 613 520 2600 ext. 1175 www.projectponal.com --- On Tue, 23/12/08, Gemini <so...@multilinks.com> wrote:

[Pius Adesanmi]

Dr Kassim:   When my graduation is nigh, be assured that I will make you church treasurer and Baba ni Israeli. As I am still very much a humanist observer of that interesting phenomenon - and a student of their language - I want you to pay attention to the issues I raised. Why don't you answer my questions? And while we are at it, you will also have to tell me how to reconcile my kegite affiliation with my upgraded membership of ALL the pentecostal churches I attend as a student of the social.  Mind you, Nigerian pentecostals as scholarly material is not just for folks like me. You are a Physician. There is work for you on the Lagos-Ibadan expressway. Go there when next you are home and do a study of the mental universe that would make those folks gyrate towards Enoch Adeboye's opium rather than Ola Kassim's Hippocratic solutions when they have headache.That would make you a curious physician with a social calling. Curiousity is the heart and soul  of my own calling. Being in those places is work for me. I'm a student of culture. Tell me, can you really study Nigeria without being a student of pentecostal culture?

Pius Pius Adesanmi, Ph.D. Associate Professor Director, Project on New African Literatures (PONAL) Department of English Carleton University Ottawa, Canada K1S 5B6 Tel: +1 613 520 2600 ext. 1175 www.projectponal.com

--- On Wed, 24/12/08, Olaka...@aol.com <Olaka...@aol.com> wrote:

[Samuel Amadi]

Prof Pius,   Perhaps, there is still some good logic to this Adeboye issue that we have not yet apprehended. It is also a matter of belief and disbelief.   Now, if you believe in God (a theist), (2) believe that God is as proclaimed in the Bible- personal, and communicative, (3) believe that this God has directly dealing with his children in the way a father relates to his children (4) believe that this God is omnipresent and omnipotent, (5) this God is not some philosopher's abstraction or the naturalist's explanation for geological phenomenon- in fact, believe in same kind of God that eminent scientist and philosopher, Blaise Pascal, who at the moment of his conversion shouted 'Fire, fire, personal God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, my own God" believed in- that is, an interventionist God, then you may believe that this God can enable one of his 'faithful' children, Adeboye, to run some distance without fuel in a very terrible condition. In the story Adeboye provided a clue by saying that the miracle was in response to his dire situation.   I think it is elementary and commonplace to associate claims of miracles with pentecostalism, whether in 'benighted' Nigeria or your 'enlightened' Canada or the US. I am a pentecostal myself and do believe in those miracles. I have recieved some myself. You make this miracle sound extraordinary.. I am sure, any pentecostal, including George Bush and Obama (I am thinking the church Obama attended for 25years (Rev. Wrights's church is pentecostal) will not be stupefied by the claim.   Now, we may also challenge the facts of this miracle. Whether it is actually possible to travel from Ibadan to Lagos as a 200km stretch. This is fair game. Again, it is legitimate to believe in miracle as I do and still query and worry about the damage of pentecostalism and its associated corruptions and inanites to social psyche in Nigeria. This morning I was discussing with my wife the sort of hardship and risks to life people go through just to attend Holy Ghost Night Vigil in Lagos-Ibadan expressway. I thought some aspect of that consciousness is cultic and ignorant. My wife offered a perspective: subjectivity. She argued that these 'pitiable' congregants may be happy to go through all these to experience freedom or release. I agreed. It is like going through such sufferings to line up in the rain to listen to something as patently unprofitable as Ludacris songs or to risk one's life to attend a footbal match like some frenzy English football fans.   My point is; from some perspective of rational religious faith running without gas through divine enablement is not fantastic. What such faith and miracles do to our social psyche is good research material   Sam Dr. Sam Amadi Director, (Research& Programs) Ken Nnamani Center for Leadership & Development Abuja, Nigeria 234-803-329-9879 --- On Wed, 12/24/08, Pius Adesanmi <piusad...@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Pius Adesanmi <piusad...@yahoo.com> Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: RCCG LEADER, ADEBOYE NAMED AMONG WORLD'S... To: USAAfric...@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 24, 2008, 7:17 AM

Dr Kassim:   When my graduation is nigh, be assured that I will make you church treasurer and Baba ni Israeli. As I am still very much a humanist observer of that interesting phenomenon - and a student of their language - I want you to pay attention to the issues I raised. Why don't you answer my questions? And while we are at it, you will also have to tell me how to reconcile my kegite affiliation with my upgraded membership of ALL the pentecostal churches I attend as a student of the social.  Mind you, Nigerian pentecostals as scholarly material is not just for folks like me. You are a Physician. There is work for you on the Lagos-Ibadan expressway. Go there when next you are home and do a study of the mental universe that would make those folks gyrate towards Enoch Adeboye's opium rather than Ola Kassim's Hippocratic solutions when they have headache.That would make you a curious physician with a social calling. Curiousity is the heart and soul  of my own calling. Being in those places is work for me. I'm a student of culture. Tell me, can you really study Nigeria without being a student of pentecostal culture?

Pius Pius Adesanmi, Ph.D. Associate Professor Director, Project on New African Literatures (PONAL) Department of English Carleton University Ottawa, Canada K1S 5B6

Tel: +1 613 520 2600 ext.. 1175

www.projectponal.com --- On Wed, 24/12/08, Olaka...@aol.com <Olaka...@aol.com> wrote:

From: Olaka...@aol.com <Olaka...@aol.com> Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: RCCG LEADER, ADEBOYE NAMED AMONG WORLD'S... To: USAAfric...@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, 24 December, 2008, 4:16 AM

Professor Adesanmi:   I think you have graduated from an observer (student) to a full fledged inductee.   You are already a true believer. I think you should be negotiating to establish a franchise of the Redeemed  or Mountain of Fire Church  at the Carleton Univeristy campus in Ottawa with yourself as the preacher and the local overseer.   Bye,   Ola

In a message dated 23/12/2008 11:02:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, piusad...@yahoo.com writes:

All of you are missing the point - the little psychological comforts that the followers of this Daddy General Overseer draw from such exutory voyages in (apologies to Edward Said). In a huge joke of a country held hostage by orangutans in Abuja, extreme hardship creates the industry of escape that pentecostalism represents. People need to voyage desperately into something; they need to voyage away from the Nigeria manufactured and supervised by the integrity-challenged buffoons in Abuja. Enter Enoch Adeboye, William Kumuyi, Chris Oyakhilome, David Oyedepo, Helen Ukpabio, creating colonies of pyrrhic happiness for an unquestioning community of faith. In engaging the exutory narratives of the Daddy General Overseers/Founders/General Superintendents et caetera et ceatera of Nigerian pentecostal denominations, we ask the wrong questions when we bring logic, science,  and reason to the table. Hence, how is it possible to travel 200 kilometres on an empty tank, when Lagos - Ibadan is only about 117 kilometres or less.. At 200 kilometres, he would be in the atlantic ocean or Benin Republic. Those are rational, logical questions thrown at a phenomenon operating at other realms. We are chasing the wind when we use such modalities. When was the last time this former Professor of mathematics - Kumuyi too was once a professor of mathematics. What is wrong with that discipline? - pretended to logic, reason, and scientifically plausible explanations of phenomena? Adeboye parted ways with Rene Descartes in the early 1980s. The proper epistemic/ethical question(s) should be: do we, as students of the social, not have the obligation to pay closer attention to people's right to create these alternative realities and 'possess their possessions' in chthonic realms when such possessions (road, light, water, human rights, jobs, security, basic respect of citizens' life etc) are denied them in the real, circumambient world by what is arguably the most irresponsible state in Africa? Try to picture the joy in the eyes of the faithful when they listened to Daddy General Overseer give the testimony of this miracle in his megachurch on the Lagos-Ibadan expressway. Daddy drove for 200 kilometres without gas. Somebody shout amen!  That's one week of bliss, happiness, and pure nirvana for his followers. Take them out of the opiate happiness of this narrative and what do they have left? Yar'Adua's Nigeria. Personally, I'll take Enoch Adeboye's opium. Any time, anyday. Just don't give me Yar'Adua's Nigeria. Anything but Yar'Adua's Nigeria. One thing I never miss when I'm home is my scholarly-observer presence on the Lagos-Ibadan expressway. I love to attend those churches - Redeem, Mountain of Fire, Christ Embassy etc. If you are a scholar in the Humanities and you don't attend those churches while in Nigeria, you are missing fantastic material. Apart from being a student of the rich diction of Nigerian pentecostals, I love the part of their service when they give testimonies. That is when you are faced with the tragedy of Nigeria. Everything that is taken for granted in Cotonou and Accra is an occasion for flowery testimonies and shouting festivals in these churches: "my son's naming ceremony was approaching. Our generator had broken down and there was no diesel to run it anyway. So we went to Daddy General Overseer and he went with us to the Lord in prayer. For seven days we prayed and fasted. We came against the spirit of darkness. We came against every contrary spirit. We bound every power, every dominion, every principality in NEPA. And you won't believe this, on D day, NEPA did not take light for the entire 3 hours my son's naming ceremony lasted. Yes, we had electricity from NEPA for the whole three hours!! Somebody shout two hundred and a half halleluyahs to my father in heaven!!!" Do we come to this testimony with lessons in reason, progress, rationality, and the minimal functions of a state that most Nigerians have forgotten? Or do we respect and engage the three hours of sanity and happiness that Enoch Adeboye's alternative world has afforded this testimonee in Nigeria's draconian context of insanity?

Pius Pius Adesanmi, Ph.D. Associate Professor Director, Project on New African Literatures (PONAL) Department of English Carleton University Ottawa, Canada K1S 5B6

Tel: +1 613 520 2600 ext.. 1175

[Rex Marinus]

Brother Jeroboam Enoch Adeboye is a truly a made-in-Nigeria phenomenon. This inimitable Jero, who drove 200 miles without gas is a national treasure, and must come to the attention of the Green movement. Since he has the copyright and the single acess to the God who answereth with gas, president Obama, who has recruited a Nobel-prize winning scientist to head the US energy dept and find a solution to the "global energy crisis" must seek immediate audience with Pastor Jero Adeboye who should be beseeched to seek more mirracles from daddy God. Among the mirracles we must seek should be: one, k'obaje fun Madoff, who made off with 50 billion big ones; who has given all ponzi schemes a bad name; God punish him well, well; God must turn the highway from Lagos leading to the Niger bridge and beyond into a highway paved with gold; God should remove all the shanties from Orile to Iyana-Ipaja, and turn all the houses into well built, clean apartment blocks, duplexes, mansions without mortgages, so that all God's children should not endure the mosquito-breeding, AIDS-infested face-me-I-face you ratholes in Lagos; God should clean the air in Lagos; make psychological dissorder from too much pressure and too much lead paint go away from Lagos; on a national level, God should give Babangida elephantisis of the scrotum, and for Obasanjo a hunchback; but God should reward people like Obi Nwakanma with 7 beautiful maidens on earth since Heaven may take too long for him to reach in good time to enjoy. Besides, there's nothing wrong with starting the ariya from earth. On the international or global level, God should stop this nonsense called Global warming. He should close down IMF and World Bank so that they should leave Africa and other places alone. God should touch Dr. Ola Kassim's heart a bit, so that he should leave Canada and go and work in UCH, and stop NIDO and all that  brain drain. God should make Dr. Bolaji Aluko to leave my brother Pius  Adesanmi alone, in particular, and the Igbo people in general. Since we are still on the global question, Pastor Adeboye should tell the Brits and the Americans to stop all their biological warfare on Mugabe and the Zimbabwean brothers who have done nothing to them. This God of Pastor Adeboye's who gives him free gas should give some to all my Igbo brothers travelling home this Xmas to spend time with their relations East of the Niger. Let them too drive 200 miles with God's gas. Afterall, no people pay greater tithe to this God than these p[eople who celebrate Xmas in style. God, in other words, should not be partial only to Pastor brother, the maginificent Jero of RCCG. As for his Chumes, the pastors Afolayans of this world, may God continue to give them faith and miraculous power too, so that they can help us turn cats into dogs in the name of God. Why dogs? well, we need more dogs in Nigeria these days. Dogs of all mkinds: seadogs, housedogs, stray dogs. Seadogs for caramba, housedogs for armed robbers, stray dogs to clean off the shit from Iya Shina who uses the road for her toilet because there's really no alternative for her. We must pray for more Adeboyes, but the mirracle must go round. Amen. Happy Xmas all!
Obi Nwakanma


 _____________________ "If I don't learn to shut my mouth I'll soon go to hell, I, Okigbo, town-crier, together with my iron bell." --Christopher Okigbo

---

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 07:17:22 -0800
From: piusad...@yahoo.com

[adeyemi bukola oyeniyi]

Dr. Valentine Ojo,
You adequately and eloquently stated my point on Adeboye's credential
to national award. For emphasis, he created an enterprise that takes
and absorbs the failure of the state. Sadly, this religious opium is
serving dsyfunctional purposes. While assuaging the people's pains and
providing succor, it also, but sadly, prevented the development of the
right culture that is capable of galvanizing concerted development.
While seem to agree on this point, i have an issue with the point you
raised on national development.

I am not only teaching but also researching and learning Security and
Strategic Studies, and this, has imbued me with especial understanding
of development, security and most importantly national security, as
inelastic. Security, like development, goes beyond national and regime
protection to incorporate anything that is capable of reducing tension
in a society. It is in this postmodernist conception of development
and security that we cannot deny the fact that the Adeboyes, Kumuyis,
Joshuas, Abiaras, etc are contributing to national development as well
as national security.

very reason Nigeria is where it is today. that is responsible for the peace

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On 12/24/08, Pius Adesanmi <piusad...@yahoo.com> wrote:

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[TITUS FOLAYAN]

Dear Oga from Tall Timbers,

There is no God of Oyinbo or Eniyan Dudu. Jesus Christ lived in Africa
as well as in the land of Palestine. My contribution from the blackberry
was very brief.

There was a man that came to America and bragged about the power that he
possessed, he called it the power of Kurube. There were Nigerians
present when he made the proclamation.
I told him that he that he needs to believe in the power of the highest
God for safety and victory. Surprisingly after he lost the election, he
called for prayer and he went back to his first love, that is, the love
of God.
It was at the Columbia University in 1981 when Baba Awolowo told us that
he does not believe in all those powers we relied upon in Nigeria. He
said that all the powers to be in Nigeria told him that he will not go
to jail and he did. As a result, he does not believe in those powers. I
am sure Baba Awolowo is a true black man, a true African, a very wise
man and a great man.
What I am saying is that the power of almighty God is real. He can do
more for those that believe in him more that man can imagine. Some
people tend to believe in many gods in Africa and serve all of them
together with the same seal, but there is only one living God. God is
neither black nor white. Christianity was in Africa before Europe. Jesus
lived in Africa, Moses lived in Africa and many of Jesus original
Apostles worked in Africa. Some of those tribes in Africa probably were
not even in existence at that time about two thousand years ago.

I pray that we all go back to Africa. The man that is liberating the
Methodist Church is an African in Africa. Even though Christianity
starts in one area, God continues to use different areas to strengthen
the faith. Antioch was once a very prominent land for Christians but now
there are probably very negligible Christian populations in that land
today.

I pray that we all have an open mind to the claim of Pastor Adeboye. God
is using him. God has done many miracles in life and I don't want
anybody to measure it by Western education, big English or money. The
fact that I did not die when I was attacked by some forces that I don't
reckon with but I was saved through the power of Almighty God when I was
young is a sign of God's divine power. If anybody wants to know the
details, call me personally. God is not for the Black, Red, Blue or
White; God is for all and HE is still in the business of doing miracles.

Oga Valentine, thank you for your response. I do appreciate you. I hope
that I will meet you one day to say hello and maybe Praise God together.
I am going to quit on that note, God will bless you all and Merry
Christmas!

Titus O. Folayan , GRI, e-Pro
Associate Broker , Senior Housing Specialist Long & Foster Real Estate,
Inc.
Tel: 240.417.0143 301.249.1600
Website: www.TitusTheRealtor.com
E-mail: Titus....@longandfoster.com

I am never too busy for your Real Estate Referrals!

-----Original Message-----
From: Dr. Valentine Ojo [mailto:val...@md.metrocast.net]
Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 12:04 PM
To: USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
Cc: TITUS FOLAYAN; Gemini; Olaka...@aol.com; Pius Adesanmi
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: RCCG LEADER, ADEBOYE NAMED
AMONG WORLD'S MOS...

"A Nigerian politician came to America while running for office last. We
asked him about security. He said that his means of protection is
Kurube.
What do you think about that?...If Kurube can work for those actively
doing politics, I know that God is mightier than any Kurube."

Pasito Folayan:

Since you are apparently the one who is in the business of believing in
a Kurube that protects Nigerian politicians, and in a white imported God
who propels the cars of Nigerian pastors on empty on a non-existent
200-mile "dangerous stretch of highway near Lagos", you would seem to be
the best placed person to know which one of these two Nigerian-invented
entities perform the better miracle...Kurube or the white imported
Christian God Nigerians have adopted as their 'Daddy'.

We now know through the Medium of Pastor Adeboye who spoke with God that
this white God is in the business of making cars that go 200 - or even
20
- miles on empty.

Now we know why GM, Ford, Chrysler, soon to be followed by Honda, Toyota
etc. are losing against these fuel-less cars being made by God for
Nigerian Christians:

"Adeboye experienced a miracle recently on a long and dangerous stretch
of highway near Lagos, he says. His car was out of gas, and the gas
stations were empty. Then God spoke to him, clearly, and said to keep
driving.
Adeboye drove 200 miles on empty."

Was Adeboye driving - or was he being chauffeur-driven?

Nigeria can now start exporting these miracle 'Adeboye-Mobiles' to the
rest of the world - and we will have found salvation!

After all, according to you, Pasito Folayan, "Many things has happened
in the past that Nigerians with sense of history must not doubt the
power of GOD. In 1930 at Oke Oye, a dead man rose."

I believe I have not only a sense, but rather deep KNOWLEDGE of Nigerian
history, and I NEVER read anywhere at anytime that "In 1930 at Oke Oye,
a dead man rose."

I am hearing about this undocumented "resurrection" from you for the
first time - and it would indeed interest me to know how many "Nigerians
with sense of history," know that "In 1930 at Oke Oye, a dead man rose."

"I have personally experienced miracles that defied logic and that is
why I am still alive." - Pastor Afolayan.

Just because you know little or NOTHING about Logic, must we then in
blind faith take your word for it that you have experienced things that
defy logic?

Are then also a Professor of Logic at an Ivy League school or at the
Sorbonne maybe?

One only wonders why people still build hospitals, research into
diseases, research into how to make more fuel efficient cars, bulbs that
use less electricity?

Why is humanity still wasting its time on education, science and
technology, when there is a God out who is giving all of this -
including waking up the dead - to Nigerian Christians just for the
asking?

Thank God Nigerians were not the people in charge of the Inquisition -
humanity would still be living today in caves and on tree branches,
existing as hunters and gatherers of fruits and berries to survive.

When educated adult Nigerians still have this kind of mentality and
concept of 'God' in the 2008, Nigeria is surely on its way back into
BARBARITY and PRIMITIVENESS - fast-track too!

IGNORANCE is BLISS!

Dr. Valentine Ojo
Tall Timbers, MD




"TITUS FOLAYAN" <TITUS....@Longandfoster.com> writes:

> Hello Sir (Dr.) Aladesanmi,
>
> A Nigerian politician came to America while running for office last.
> We asked him about security. He said that his means of protection is
Kurube.
> What do you think about that?
> I am not privileged to the tape of Pastor Adeboye but I know that God
> is still in the business of Miracles. 200 KM is a lot but are sure he
> said 200KM?
> If Kurube can work for those actively doing politics, I know that God
> is mightier than any Kurube.
> Many things has happened in the past that Nigerians with sense of
> history must not doubt the power of GOD. In 1930 at Oke Oye, a dead
> man rose. I have personally experienced miracles that defied logic and

> that is why I am still alive. Check the exact mileage with Pastor
> Adeboye. I know that God is using and don't let us make mockery of the

> power of God since most of you still send money home for protection
> anyway. Evil is out there but God is mightier than those evils. Try
God and a trial will convince you.
>
> Thank you and God will bless you.
>
> Pastor Titus Folayan
> Christ Apostolic Church

> he insists, God intervened "because of the need ... in a crisis."

> 14,000 branches-claiming 5 million members-in his home country of

> University-and most of those Christians will be Pentecostals.

> The emphasis on Biblical inerrancy and on rigid social rules-no
drinking, no
> smoking, no premarital sex-offers structure for people whose lives

> he insists, God intervened "because of the need ... in a crisis."

[Dr. Valentine Ojo]

"In the story Adeboye provided a clue by saying that the miracle was in

response to his dire situation." -

What a weird God!

This same God did not answer, when Jesus, his ONLY SON, called on him to
save him from Pontius Pilate and the Jewish collaborators who ultimately
hung him like a common criminal among thievse on Munt Golgotha.

Yet the same God was able to take time off his busy schedule to push
someone's car - "one of his 'faithful' children, Adeboye, to run some
distance without fuel in a very terrible condition" on the very dangerous
Nigerian roads!

I wouldn't to be the only son of such a father - if I had a choice in the
matter.

This God had no time to save his other Nigerian children forkthe tyrannies
of the Abachas, the Babangidas, the Obasanjos - but he has the time to
push Adeboye's car?

The more I read the thinking of my fellow Nigerian academics and
intellectuals and 'idiots savants', the better I understand why Western
education, science and technology have left Africans - especially
Nigerians - far, far behind the rest of thinking, rational humanity.

Are these really the BEST and BRIGHTEST that Africa has to offer the
world, Africa, and humanity?

People with this kind of caveman-like thinking?

A people ever ready to bend over backwards, and stand logic on it head, to
believe in superstitions and irrationalities in the name of 'faith'?

Lord have mercy!

Dr. Valentine Ojo
Tall Timbers, MD

"Samuel Amadi" <sama...@yahoo.com> writes:

> Prof Pius,
>  
> Perhaps, there is still some good logic to this Adeboye issue that we have
> not yet apprehended. It is also a matter of belief and disbelief.
>  
> Now, if you believe in God (a theist), (2) believe that God is as
> proclaimed in the Bible- personal, and communicative, (3) believe that
> this God has directly dealing with his children in the way a father
> relates to his children (4) believe that this God is omnipresent and
> omnipotent, (5) this God is not some philosopher's abstraction or the
> naturalist's explanation for geological phenomenon- in fact, believe in
> same kind of God that eminent scientist and philosopher, Blaise Pascal,
> who at the moment of his conversion shouted 'Fire, fire, personal God, the
> God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, my own God" believed in- that is, an
> interventionist God, then you may believe that this God can enable one of
> his 'faithful' children, Adeboye, to run some distance without fuel in a
> very terrible condition. In the story Adeboye provided a clue by saying
> that the miracle was in response to his dire situation.
>  
> I think it is elementary and commonplace to associate claims of miracles
> with pentecostalism, whether in 'benighted' Nigeria or your 'enlightened'
> Canada or the US. I am a pentecostal myself and do believe in those
> miracles. I have recieved some myself. You make this miracle sound

> extraordinary. I am sure, any pentecostal, including George Bush and Obama

> Tel: +1 613 520 2600 ext. 1175

> tank, when Lagos - Ibadan is only about 117 kilometres or less. At 200

> Tel: +1 613 520 2600 ext. 1175

> Christians around the globe..

> pressing social issues.. He recently made a public-service announcement

> condemning discrimination against people with HIV. He distributes his
> message globally through Facebook and MySpace, a self-published magazine
> called "The Mandate," and a digital-cable channel called Open Heavens TV.
> His appearance is straitlaced: he always wears a pinstriped suit, a
> gleaming white shirt and a bow tie.
> Adeboye experienced a miracle recently on a long and dangerous stretch of
> highway near Lagos, he says. His car was out of gas, and the gas stations
> were empty. Then God spoke to him, clearly, and said to keep driving.
> Adeboye drove 200 miles on empty. Could his gas gauge have been broken?
> No, he insists, God intervened "because of the need … in a crisis."
> Adeboye knows well what some in the West have forgotten: in today's world,
> everyone needs a Daddy.
>
>
>
>
>

[Dr. Valentine Ojo]

"In the story Adeboye provided a clue by saying that the miracle was in

> Prof Pius,
>  
> Perhaps, there is still some good logic to this Adeboye issue that we have
> not yet apprehended. It is also a matter of belief and disbelief.
>  
> Now, if you believe in God (a theist), (2) believe that God is as
> proclaimed in the Bible- personal, and communicative, (3) believe that
> this God has directly dealing with his children in the way a father
> relates to his children (4) believe that this God is omnipresent and
> omnipotent, (5) this God is not some philosopher's abstraction or the
> naturalist's explanation for geological phenomenon- in fact, believe in
> same kind of God that eminent scientist and philosopher, Blaise Pascal,
> who at the moment of his conversion shouted 'Fire, fire, personal God, the
> God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, my own God" believed in- that is, an
> interventionist God, then you may believe that this God can enable one of
> his 'faithful' children, Adeboye, to run some distance without fuel in a
> very terrible condition. In the story Adeboye provided a clue by saying
> that the miracle was in response to his dire situation.
>  
> I think it is elementary and commonplace to associate claims of miracles
> with pentecostalism, whether in 'benighted' Nigeria or your 'enlightened'
> Canada or the US. I am a pentecostal myself and do believe in those
> miracles. I have recieved some myself. You make this miracle sound

> extraordinary. I am sure, any pentecostal, including George Bush and Obama

> Tel: +1 613 520 2600 ext. 1175

> tank, when Lagos - Ibadan is only about 117 kilometres or less. At 200

> Tel: +1 613 520 2600 ext. 1175

> Christians around the globe..

> pressing social issues.. He recently made a public-service announcement

> condemning discrimination against people with HIV. He distributes his
> message globally through Facebook and MySpace, a self-published magazine
> called "The Mandate," and a digital-cable channel called Open Heavens TV.
> His appearance is straitlaced: he always wears a pinstriped suit, a
> gleaming white shirt and a bow tie.
> Adeboye experienced a miracle recently on a long and dangerous stretch of
> highway near Lagos, he says. His car was out of gas, and the gas stations
> were empty. Then God spoke to him, clearly, and said to keep driving.
> Adeboye drove 200 miles on empty. Could his gas gauge have been broken?
> No, he insists, God intervened "because of the need … in a crisis."
> Adeboye knows well what some in the West have forgotten: in today's world,
> everyone needs a Daddy.
>
>
>
>
>

[Dr. Valentine Ojo]

"Security, like development, goes beyond national and regime
protection to incorporate anything that is capable of reducing tension
in a society. It is in this postmodernist conception of development
and security that we cannot deny the fact that the Adeboyes, Kumuyis,
Joshuas, Abiaras, etc are contributing to national development as well
as national security.

The very reason Nigeria is where it is today. that is responsible for the
peace..." - "adeyemi bukola oyeniyi" <oyen...@gmail.com>

Too much Turenchi - too much grammar!

What "peace"?

Peace is NOT the mere absence of open conflict. I have no clue what you
are "teaching but also researching and learning [in your] Security and
Strategic Studies", but it sounds you are way off Center Field!

'Shufferin' and Shmilin'" in silence is NOT 'peace' - but a catstrophe
waiting to happen.

You watch! Your Adeboye should actually be able to foresee that - you DO
NOT have to be clairvoyant:

Nigeria is a MAJOR CATASTROPHE waiting to happen. And when the shit hits
the fan - everyone gets splattered. Like the saying goes.

Dr. Valentine Ojo
Tall Timbers, MD

[Dr. Valentine Ojo]

Pasito Folayan:

"Christianity was in Africa before Europe. Jesus lived in Africa, Moses
lived in Africa and many of Jesus original Apostles worked in Africa. Some
of those tribes in Africa probably were not even in existence at that time

about two thousand years ago." - Pastor Folayan

Pasito Folayan:

Sure, Jesus lived in a town in Egypt - and Egypt = Africa.

Georgraphy is obvioiusly not your strong suit.

""Christianity was in Africa before Europe."

Sure! When Jesus the Christ lived in 'Africa' - at about the age of 12 -
it was then that he informed his 'disciples' that he was founding a
religion to be named 'Christianity'.

And the first European slavers who came with a ship named 'Jesus' to the
Delta area of Nigeria to ship the first Africans slaves to America were
mightily surprised to meet African pastors and bishops touting their
African Bibles.

And they were taken aback by the number of 'Christian Churches' they mete
at the Niger Delta and in Gold Coast.

Again, it would appear that 'History' is not your strong suit either.

But then did you not also tell us about the man who rose from the dead "in
1930 at Oke Oye'?

By the way, were you already born then, did you read about it, or was it
told to you by someone who certified that the man was actully dead before
again resurrecting?

In 1930? How many 'Christianms' were in Oke Oye then to be able to effect
this 'miracle'?

How many people could actually read at Oke Oye wherever that may be in
Yotruband in 1930?

You are obviously gifted by the Almighty with the ability to tell tall
tales - a great gift in itself.

Listen, Pasito, when RATIONALITY runs smack into a wll of IRRATIONALITY
and SUPERSITION, that's when a wise man bows out of discussion that ain't
going nowhere like driving 200 miles on empty on a dangerous stretch of
road near Lagos.

How near is 200 miles to anything?

That surely defies any logic indeed!

Have a Merry Christmas, and Prosperous New Year, Pasito Folayan!

And may your herd of docile lambs waiting only to be devoured by upright
wolves continue to increase and multiply - until extinct, eaten up by the
upright wolves who are increasing faster than their preys!

And the upright wolves will then also be extinct - having eaten up all the
docile lambs on which they subsisted.

Take care!

[Ms rosemary danesi]

Anyone who believes in the charlatans in Nigeria who call themselves miracle workers, does not believe in the Supreme Being, God Almighty. Any 'pastor' who arrogates so much power to himself needs to be examined by a psychiatrist and a neurologist. God does not go against his own natural laws that he created. We must understand that God is not an arbitrary God, that is why Jesus Christ was born by a woman because God does not circumvent his own laws, he fulfills them. Even Christ said he did not come to change the law (i.e. the law of God) but to fulfill it. Pastor Adeboye has a right to talk and tell us what he believed took place on that fateful day, but i have a right to disbelieve him because i know that it is impossible to drive 200 km without fuel in your car. However, there are some people who believe that Adeboye actually 'received a miracle' from God. A car is meant to run on gas not air. I do not believe him, period whether he is a pastor or not. ************************************************ Rosemary A. Danesi Fulbright Scholar and PhD Candidate School of Law, University of Essex, Wivenhoe Park, Colchester CO4 3SQ, United Kingdom. Mobile Tel: 07903792187, Tel. Office: 01206873495         --- On Wed, 12/24/08, Samuel Amadi <sama...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[adeyemi bukola oyeniyi]

It is not compulsory we agree on this: national development comes in
different forms. Believe what you will, the Adeboyes and his
pentecostal pastors are also contributing to development.
I think i need to make a clarification on my last post, i was still on
the post when a call came in, in the process, the incomplete mail
dissappeared. I did not initially understand what you were saying
until, i checked and discovered that you were refering to the
statement at the very end of the post.
Today is xmas, so sheath your sword and lets do rice and turkey.
Redwine is also available, and you are invited.

[Abiodun Fijabi]

Now, I disagree with you, Rosemary.   God does sometimes circumvent His own laws. Not at His whims and caprices, but to fulfill a purpose. A major reason is to show us humans that the world is not purely material. Rosemary, you wrote about Jesus being born of a woman - which is the natural course - but you failed to note that the woman did not have a sexual relationship before giving birth to Jesus - which is an unnatural (call it miraculous, if you wish) course. Jesus also walked on water, disregarding, or if you like, suspending the laws of floatation. Again, against the natural course.   I believe because God made the laws, He can suspend them at will. That, I believe is what we call a miracle. That anybody who believes in the miraculous is a charlatan denies a statement the Bible attributes to Jesus: "The works that I do, you shall do also. Greater things than this shall you do because I go to my Father." Of course, flaunting the miraculous as many "ministers" today do, as a way of gaining fame is against the grains of the Scriptures. In many instances, Jesus warned the benefiaries of His miracles not to go spread the news. But we should not throw away the baby with the bath water, just because some are doing it the wrong way.   Dear Rosemary, I have quoted from the Scriptures because you refereed to it. I would have had no business responding to you if you had denied the Scriptures. But iff you only select what to believe about the Scriptures, I have no further comments.   Merry Christmas.   Abiodun Fijabbi Life Afriica Abeokuta, Nigeria --- On Wed, 12/24/08, Ms rosemary danesi <rosemar...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[ibk...@gmail.com]

Rose,

Yours is a refreshing blast of fresh mountain breeze in a discussion that has degenerated into needless controversy between the blind faith-ists and non believers of the immaculately conceived Jewish man, God, and spirit triumvirate.

One point you make so eloquently is that God will not go against the natural laws he himself created. Hence Adeboye could not have driven a car meant to run on fuel on air for 200km.

In the same vein please deliver me from my misery by confirming whether Mary the mother of Jesus could conceive unnaturally without male sperm insemination.

Both Adeboye and Mary's feats go against the natural order. Your reply will then force me to show where I stand in this debate.

IBK

Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone provided by Celtel Tanzania

---

From: Ms rosemary danesi
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 13:51:56 -0800 (PST)
To: <USAAfric...@googlegroups.com>

[Ms rosemary danesi]

IBK, Am glad you agree with me that God does not go against his own laws. As we all know the "Immaculate Conception" has been a very controversial issue. There are many writings and documentaries on this issue. I will not go into this debate in this forum, otherwise i will be skinned alive. But suffice it to maintain that God does not go against his own laws. Though we know that there have been many writings and beliefs that indicate otherwise. Have a wonderful Christmas Celebration and a Happy and Successful 2009.

************************************************ Rosemary A. Danesi Fulbright Scholar and PhD Candidate School of Law, University of Essex, Wivenhoe Park, Colchester CO4 3SQ, United Kingdom. Mobile Tel: 07903792187, Tel. Office: 01206873495

--- On Thu, 12/25/08, ibk...@gmail.com <ibk...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Samuel Ayodele]

Rose,

You are right on the money. Some of these electronic pastors put so much fear in our people so much that their words are now becoming laws and they cannot challenge them. It is just unfortunate to see our people in this kind of self made bondage.

SA

---

Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 01:34:26 -0800
From: abiodu...@yahoo.com
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - RCCG LEADER, ADEBOYE NAMED AMONG WORLD'S...

---

Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills. Get your Hotmail® account.

[Dr. Valentine Ojo]

This your response illustrates the PROBLEMS I have with Nigerian
self-styled Christians:

You claim:

1. "...national development comes in different forms."

Maybe. But you haven't bothered to show us the "different forms", or which
"form of national development" Nigeria is currently enjoying or
undergoing, and what the Adeboyes are contributing - beside IGNORANCE and
EXPLOITATION of the poor, the gullible and the down-trodden.

2. "Believe what you will, the Adeboyes and his pentecostal pastors are
also contributing to development."

If no matter what I "believe", you insist you are RIGHT - without showing
convincing proof - what then are we talking about?

Are we now back to "believe what you will," or are you able to show
pragmatically, empirically, in facts and figures, this is what "the
Adeboyes and his pentecostal pastors" are doing for Nigeria and Nigerians?

If not, we are back to brainwashing and merely misleading the people,
exploiting their misery, their suffering, their ignorance, and taking
advantage of their credibility.

The more you look, the less you see.

Where are the schools they built?

The hospitals?

The maternity homes?

The shelters for the homeless?

The shelter for orphans?

The job and employment opportunities being created...?

3. "Today is xmas, so sheath your sword..."

Though this tour de phrase may have been meant humorously, it sends the
wrong message. I find it very troubling. Were we "fighting" when we are
merely exchanging views about the Adeboyes of Nigeria, and their
contribution - or lack there off - to 'national development'??

So, why the "combative usage" of "sheath your sword"?

The unfortunate use of that phrase sheds light on the thinking of Nigerian
Christians - they are always "fighting" in the defense of their religion.

Can this kind of permanently combative stance not provoke the kind of
mayhem we witnessed recently in Jos?

Why this aggressive attack of Nigerian 'Pentecostals' on anything anything
Non-Pentecostal?

What have been the EXACT CONTRIBUTIONS of Nigerian Pentecostals to
national development - what people would normally describe and see as
"national development", and not merely acting as palliatives, band aids to
sweltering open sores, rather than offering real solutions, and merely
creating breeding ground for future frustrated and desperate Nigerians?

A Merry Christmas to you and to your family!

[Ms rosemary danesi]

IBK, Am glad you agree with me that God does not go against his own laws. As we all know the "Immaculate Conception" has been a very controversial issue. There are many writings and documentaries on this issue. I will not go into this debate in this forum, otherwise i will be skinned alive. But suffice it to maintain that God does not go against his own laws. Though we know that there have been many writings and beliefs that indicate otherwise. Have a wonderful Christmas Celebration and a Happy and Successful 2009.

************************************************ Rosemary A. Danesi Fulbright Scholar and PhD Candidate School of Law, University of Essex, Wivenhoe Park, Colchester CO4 3SQ, United Kingdom. Mobile Tel: 07903792187, Tel. Office: 01206873495

--- On Thu, 12/25/08, ibk...@gmail.com <ibk...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: ibk...@gmail.com <ibk...@gmail.com> Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: RCCG LEADER, ADEBOYE NAMED AMONGWORLD'S... To: USAAfric...@googlegroups.com Date: Thursday, December 25, 2008, 3:30 AM

[Adeniran Adeboye]

Pastor Folayan,

Emi ni o. Se alafia ni eyin ati awon ara ile yoku wa? It is great
that you have brought Obafemi Awolowo into this discourse. He remains
a hero to many of us, and hopefully to our descendants. He was a
giant in politics, philosophy, finance and management. Lest we
forget, he was also painfully human. For a human being to experience
a forecast miracle, (s)he has to believe the forecast. It is a

necessary condition, though not a sufficient one. You wrote:

> It was at the Columbia University in 1981 when Baba Awolowo told us
> that
> he does not believe in all those powers we relied upon in Nigeria. He
> said that all the powers to be in Nigeria told him that he will not go
> to jail and he did. As a result, he does not believe in those
> powers. I
> am sure Baba Awolowo is a true black man, a true African, a very wise
> man and a great man.

Awolowo, a prominent member of the Agbeni Methodist Church in Ibadan,
had already learnt not to believe in the faith of our fathers (and
mothers). No matter what the "powers' told him, his Christian
position stood in the way of any belief in efficacy of the forecast
about his imprisonment. By late August 1963, after Anthony Enahoro
had been sentenced to 15 years, he had resigned himself to being sent
in the same direction. Well the "powers" then assured him that he
would not die in prison. To prove that he chose to believe that, he
said as much to the court after he was pronounced guilty, as charged,
but before sentencing.

I am sure that you will agree that the bible underscores the power of
faith with regard to "miraculous'' events. How else can one interpret
the 11th chapter of the Epistle to the Hebrews?

Best regards,

Adeniran Adeboye

[Adeniran Adeboye]

Dear Ms Danesi,

You wrote,

. We must understand that God is not an arbitrary God, that is why Jesus Christ was born by a woman because God does not circumvent his own laws, he fulfills them. 

This is a very interesting angle. If God needed Jesus to be conceived and born by a woman in order not to circumvent his own laws, why did he need the Holy Spirit to get Mary pregnant? You know that six months earlier, as reported, He had got John (the Baptist) conceived w/o enlisting the Holy Spirit. You also wrote: 

Any 'pastor' who arrogates so much power to himself needs to be examined by a psychiatrist and a neurologist.

In fairness to Pastor Adeboye, he does not arrogate much power to himself, he gives all the credit for these "miracles" to the Christian God. For that matter, I do not know any pastor who claim to perform miracles, they rather ask "God" to perform these "miracles" as the answer to their prayers. 

Best regards,

Adeniran Adeboye

[Pius Adesanmi]

Hey Sam di Sam!!!   Na your face be dis? Or is this not my friend Sam of the locomotive-length signatures? Merry christmas O. Wey my turkey? And where are your remaining 45 and a half signatures? You and I don't seem to disagree here or have I misread you? Looks like you are in agreement with the point I raised in my initial intervention: we need to apprehend this phenomenon at post-Cartesian levels since those who are interpellated by the power of such narratives do not subscribe to our own schemes of apprehension. They operate at a level where the rational consists in passing exams without studying - hence night vigil grounds have more customers than libraries in our universities during exam period. Yes, George Bush and Obama would certainly have experienced what they both believe to be miracles in their lives. But it is a considerable stretch to equate such with the miracles I hear in testimonies on the Lagos-Ibadan express way. Tell me, will Bush and Obama consider a few hours of electricity  a miracle? Will Bush and Obama consider efficient phone service by Verizon and AT&T a miracle? When they go to the gas station and there is gas, do they go - one to his black church, the other to his white church - on sunday morning to scream halleluia? If you listen to what passes for miracles during testimony hour in Pentecostal churches across Nigeria, you will give up on that country. Even the residents of Conakry, Freetown, Mogadishu, Harare, and N'Djamena would be shocked to learn that some of the things they take for granted in their daily lives provide grounds for cacophonous declarations of the miraculous in Nigeria. I do not accept your rationalization of God's choice of Enoch Adeboye as the recipient of this miracle. Enoch Adeboye is a very wealthy man. He sits atop a mega-Pentecostal denomination. Pentecostalism is the second most lucrative business in Nigeria. It is second only to corruption. Enoch Adeboye does not need that environment-friendly miracle. There are too many poor and needy Nigerians who can't afford gas. Many of his followers chop gbese to attend service on sunday. The ability to do 200 kilometres on empty would make a lot of difference in the lives of such people. Besides, we have no reason to believe that God would elect Enoch Adeboye for any miracles until he has satisfactorily expplained the grossly nepotistic and utterly corrupt import waiver he got from his friend, the massively corrupt Olusegun Obasanjo. Or was that also a miracle that passeth all understanding?     Pastor Afolayan:   E ku ise Oluwa O. It seems to me that your work is cut out for you in this forum. There are too many pagan souls for you to win: Valentine Ojo, Obi Nwakanma, Pius Adesanmi, Amatoritsero (a contraction of: A o mo oun ti orisha nro) and so many other Pharisees and Sadducees lurking around here.  Watch out for Amatoristero especially. His patron saint is Esu - as in the real Esu before ignorant Christians gave him a bad name, mistaking him for their satan.  But never mind. Everytime they mock you, they just give you an opportunity to suffer on account of HIS name. I am sure you have given their names to prayer warriors. I am also sure you meet their ignorance with the chorus: "every kneel shall bow, every tongue confess..."

Pius Pius Adesanmi, Ph.D. Associate Professor Director, Project on New African Literatures (PONAL) Department of English Carleton University Ottawa, Canada K1S 5B6

Tel: +1 613 520 2600 ext. 1175 www.projectponal.com

--- On Wed, 24/12/08, Samuel Amadi <sama...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[wa...@comcast.net]

"I do not accept your rationalization of God's choice of Enoch Adeboye as the recipient of this miracle. Enoch Adeboye is a very wealthy man. He sits atop a mega-Pentecostal denomination. Pentecostalism is the second most lucrative business in Nigeria. It is second only to corruption. Enoch Adeboye does not need that environment-friendly miracle. There are too many poor and needy Nigerians who can't afford gas. Many of his followers chop gbese to attend service on sunday. The ability to do 200 kilometres on empty would make a lot of difference in the lives of such people. Besides, we have no reason to believe that God would elect Enoch Adeboye for any miracles until he has satisfactorily expplained the grossly nepotistic and utterly corrupt import waiver he got from his friend, the massively corrupt Olusegun Obasanjo. Or was that also a miracle that passeth all understanding"

 

Thank you Pius for your comment. As a Pastor, I agree with your comments above. Of what use is this 200 mile drive on empty gas miracle to the Nigerians who live in abject poverty and deprivation?  We sure need miracles in the areas of good infrastructural development, security to lives and property and moral rejunevation. Was the purpose of this published miracle to entice more followership to swell the coffers of the RCCG?

 

I am reminded that you should not reap where you did not sow. What has RCCG done to improve the health care delivery of Nigerians? How many primary and secondary schools does the RCCG have in Nigeria? I honestly think it is time to call these Pentecostal Churches to order.

 

This empty gas story is balderdash.

 

 

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Pius Adesanmi <piusad...@yahoo.com>

Hey Sam di Sam!!!   Na your face be dis? Or is this not my friend Sam of the locomotive-length signatures? Merry christmas O. Wey my turkey? And where are your remaining 45 and a half signatures? You and I don't seem to disagree here or have I misread you? Looks like you are in agreement with the point I raised in my initial intervention: we need to apprehend this phenomenon at post-Cartesian levels since those who are interpellated by the power of such narratives do not subscribe to our own schemes of apprehension. They operate at a level where the rational consists in passing exams without studying - hence night vigil grounds have more customers than libraries in our universities during exam period. Yes, George Bush and Obama would certainly have experienced what they both believe to be miracles in their lives. But it is a considerable stretch to equate such with the miracles I hear in testimonies on the Lagos-Ibadan express way. Tell me, will Bush and Obama consider a few hours of electricity& nbsp; a miracle? Will Bush and Obama consider efficient phone service by Verizon and AT&T a miracle? When they go to the gas station and there is gas, do they go - one to his black church, the other to his white church - on sunday morning to scream halleluia? If you listen to what passes for miracles during testimony hour in Pentecostal churches across Nigeria, you will give up on that country. Even the residents of Conakry, Freetown, Mogadishu, Harare, and N'Djamena would be shocked to learn that some of the things they take for granted in their daily lives provide grounds for cacophonous declarations of the miraculous in Nigeria. I do not accept your rationalization of God's choice of Enoch Adeboye as the recipient of this miracle. Enoch Adeboye is a very wealthy man. He sits atop a mega-Pentecostal denomination. Pentecostalism is the second most lucrative business in Nigeria. It is second only to corruption. Enoch Adeboye does not need that environment-friendly miracle. There are too many poor and needy Nigerians who can't afford gas. Many of his followers chop gbese to attend service on sunday. The ability to do 200 kilometres on empty would make a lot of difference in the lives of such people. Besides, we have no reason to believe that God would elect Enoch Adeboye for any miracles until he has satisfactorily expplained the grossly nepotistic and utterly corrupt import waiver he got from his friend, the massively corrupt Olusegun Obasanjo. Or was that also a miracle that passeth all understanding?

Dr Kassim:   When my graduation is nigh, be assured that I will make you church treasurer and Baba ni Israeli. As I am still very much a humanist observer of that interesting phenomenon - and a student of their language - I want you to pay attention to the issues I raised. Why don't you answer my questions? And while we are at it, you will also have to tell me how to reconcile my kegite affiliation with my upgraded membership of ALL the pentecostal churches I attend as a student of the social.  Mind you, Nigerian pentecostals as scholarly material is not just for folks like me. You are a Physician. There is work for you on the Lagos-Ibadan expressway. Go there when next you are home and do a study of the mental universe that would make those folks gyrate towards Enoch Adeboye's opium rather than Ola Kassim's Hippocratic solutions when they have headache.That would make you a curious physician with a social calling. Curiousity is the heart and soul  o f my own calling. Being in those places is work for me. I'm a student of culture. Tell me, can you really study Nigeria without being a student of pentecostal culture?

Pius Pius Adesanmi, Ph.D. Associate Professor Director, Project on New African Literatures (PONAL) Department of English Carleton University Ottawa, Canada K1S 5B6 Tel: +1 613 520 2600 ext.. 1175 www.projectponal.com --- On Wed, 24/12/08, Olaka...@aol.com <Olaka...@aol.com> wrote:

From: Olaka...@aol.com <Olaka...@aol.com> Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: RCCG LEADER, ADEBOYE NAMED AMONG WORLD'S... To: USAAfric...@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, 24 December, 2008, 4:16 AM

Professor Adesanmi:   I think you have graduated from an observer (student) to a full fledged inductee.   You are already a true believer. I think you should be negotiating to establish a franchise of the Redeemed  or Mountain of Fire Church  at the Carleton Univeristy campus in Ottawa with yourself as the preacher and the local overseer.   Bye,   Ola

In a message dated 23/12/2008 11:02:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, piusad...@yahoo.com writes:

All of you are missing the point - the little psychological comforts that the followers of this Daddy General Overseer draw from such exutory voyages in (apologies to Edward Said). In a huge joke of a country held hostage by orangutans in Abuja, extreme hardship creates the industry of escape that pentecostalism represents. People need to voyage desperately into something; they need to voyage away from the Nigeria manufactured and supervised by the integrity-challenged buffoons in Abuja. Enter Enoch Adeboye, William Kumuyi, Chris Oyakhilome, David Oyedepo, Helen Ukpabio, creating colonies of pyrrhic happiness for an unquestioning community of faith. In engaging the exutory narratives of the Daddy General Overseers/Founders/General Superintendents et caetera et ceatera of Nigerian pentecostal denominations, we ask the wrong questions when we bring logic, science,  and reason to the table. Hence, how is it possible to travel 200 kilometres on an empty tank, when Lagos - Ibadan is only about 117 kilometres or less.. At 200 kilometres, he would be in the atlantic ocean or Benin Republic. Those are rational, logical questions thrown at a phenomenon operating at other realms. We are chasing the wind when we use such modalities. When was the last time this former Professor of mathematics - Kumuyi too was once a professor of mathematics. What is wrong with that discipline? - pretended to logic, reason, and scientifically plausible explanations of phenomena? Adeboye parted ways with Rene Descartes in the early 1980s. The proper epistemic/ethical question(s) should be: do we, as students of the social, not have the obligation to pay closer attention to people's right to create these alternative realities and 'possess their possessions' in chthonic realms when such possessions (road, light, water, human rights, jobs, security, basic respect of citizens' life etc) are denied them in the real, circumambient world by what is arguably the most irresponsible state in Africa? Try to picture the joy in the eyes of the faithful when they listened to Daddy General Overseer give the testimony of this miracle in his megachurch on the Lagos-Ibadan expressway. Daddy drove for 200 kilometres without gas. Somebody shout amen!  That's one week of bliss, happiness, and pure nirvana for his followers. Take them out of the opiate happiness of this narrative and what do they have left? Yar'Adua's Nigeria. Personally, I'll take Enoch Adeboye's opium. Any time, anyday. Just don't give me Yar'Adua's Nigeria. Anything but Yar'Adua's Nigeria. One thing I never miss when I'm home is my scholarly-observer presence on the Lagos-Ibadan expressway. I love to attend those churches - Redeem, Mountain of Fire, Christ Embassy etc. If you are a scholar in the Humanities and you don't attend those churches while in Nigeria, you are missing fantastic material. Apart from being a student of the rich dict ion of Nigerian pentecostals, I love the part of their service when they give testimonies. That is when you are faced with the tragedy of Nigeria. Everything that is taken for granted in Cotonou and Accra is an occasion for flowery testimonies and shouting festivals in these churches: "my son's naming ceremony was approaching. Our generator had broken down and there was no diesel to run it anyway. So we went to Daddy General Overseer and he went with us to the Lord in prayer. For seven days we prayed and fasted. We came against the spirit of darkness. We came against every contrary spirit. We bound every power, every dominion, every principality in NEPA. And you won't believe this, on D day, NEPA did not take light for the entire 3 hours my son's naming ceremony lasted. Yes, we had electricity from NEPA for the whole three hours!! Somebody shout two hundred and a half halleluyahs to my father in heaven!!!" Do we come to this testimony with lessons in r eason, progress, rationality, and the minimal functions of a state that most Nigerians have forgotten? Or do we respect and engage the three hours of sanity and happiness that Enoch Adeboye's alternative world has afforded this testimonee in Nigeria's draconian context of insanity?

[wa...@comcast.net]

[Samuel Amadi]

Pius,   Sorry, I have been observing xmas with my family (I couldnt travel home because 'things hard') so I could not respond quickly.   Belief and unbelief (or disbelief) is a deep state that the transcience of email discourse cannot deal. I am a believer. Pastor Adeboye is my pastor. Just this morning my wife reminded me to recount again my three heros in life. I reminded her that they are (1) Barack Obama- for being the best example of a political leader- intelligent without being academic, smart without being naughty, idealistic without being disoriented from reality. Long before the Obamania, I had chosen Barack as my model of true, intelligent, sincere politician with understanding of the province and purpose of politics.   (2) Pastor Adeboye- for being an epitome of an honesty and passionate believer in God. Adeboye teach me what it means to believe in God: Obedience. Let me narrate two encounters with Pastor Adeboye that reinforce his holiness. In 1995, I formed a christian radical group committed to social justice and political transformation. We called it 'Christian Network for Justice and Community'. Our mission was to make 'Christ the Lord of the Polity'. We were more in the mold of prophet Isaiah, with a mission to proclaim justice and righteouness to political institutions. We write to leading religious leaders about this prophetic mission. Only Adeboye replied and suggested his deputy to be an adviser. Cardinal Okojie, God bless him, did not replied. Achbishop Mbang, then CAN President, was totally pissed off with us. 'How dare you dream that God could use you boys to bring a perspective we have not known before'. 'What nonsense, how can Christ be the Lord of the Polity'. We also wrote to Pastor Tunde Bakare. We did not recieve very encouraging response. One day, we paid Pastor Adeboye visit at the Redemption Camp. Very early in the morning. We were shocked that at such early hour he was already hosting dignitaries. I saw the famous Chairman of Nigerian Breweries, Ohivere visit for counsel. When Adeboye saw us, he prayed with u a simple prayer. That the network should reach the ends of the world. God spoke clearly to my mind."This is what it means to be great. To be holy and simple. See you the mighty beat thier ways to this hamlet to see a holy man. If you are faithful and true, you will be truly great'. It was like Ghandi in his calico, recieving honor from more worldly (and sinful) potentates.   The second time I encounted Adeboye in a sort of epiphany is during one of his Holy Ghost Vigil. Pastor Adeboye announced two books he published (there were no bestsellers- just devotional books) and dared his friends to buy copies to support his ministry. I have heard preacher peddle their market with such manipulation and sophistry that used car saler will be envious. But, look at Adeboye's style. He asked all those who need the book at the stated price to raise their hands and collect from the Usher. Dont pay money. Dont write down your name or email or phone number. Just raise your hand and take and go. What! Just bring the money in a month's time. I didnt need God to speak to me. It only a man who knows his God who can dare a crowd of over 500,000 people to take his books and come back to pay. You mean that Nigerians can be trusted to be so responsible? Then I heard the vioce of God again, This is the hallmark of great faith and godliness. To trust that the spirit of God will convict people not to cheat you. This is like Jesus who rebuked his disciples for defending him when he was attacked. My father in heaven can protect me. Besides, as long as I do the will of him who sent me, not seeking my own good, I can suffer no loss. Great faith. I dare a charlatan to do this. I dare a less than Adeboye to do this. Don't bother to ask, I paid my money and other did two. The hollow of a holyman. Ask those who meet Ghandi.   (3) Gani Fawehinmi- for teaching me and modeling integrity in professional and public life. I am proud and blessed to have started my career as a lawyer with Gani and to have remained one of his favorite mentees. I continue to count him my boss. Anybody can accuse Gani of anything-ranging from infantilism, rascality, idealism, love of publicity, etc, but no one can accuse Gani of corruption. You can't say Gani exchanged personal interest for public interest. You cant say Gani donated his awesome intellectual and star power to the service of the rich or powerful who want to defeat public good or public interest. Gani is the ultimate man of discipline who has refused to be confused morally. Gani is not a socialist a radical or anything. He is simply a moralist.   So, my brothers and sisters, I respect these three men even as I can find gaps in their knowledge or practice. God never makes a perfect man.. Oftentimes, I feel like I am Adeboye and smash the ego of these criminals in power. But, Adeboye is Adeboye. Gani is Gani. God has used Adeboye to do a great thing in Nigeria. The next work of cleansening pentecostalism and defeating corruption and injustice remains for someone, Sam Amadi, Puis, Obi Nwakanma, etc.   But, first, Sam, Pius, Obi, etc must first humble themselves, admit that they are sinners and contributory negligent or complicit in the crisis of value in Nigeria and be discipline like Adeboye to make the difference. Note that all my heros are discipline and focused people who know how to drive themselves. The change they envision starts with them.   Merry Xmas

Sam  Dr. Sam Amadi Director, (Research& Programs) Ken Nnamani Center for Leadership & Development Abuja, Nigeria 234-803-329-9879

--- On Fri, 12/26/08, wa...@comcast.net <wa...@comcast.net> wrote:

From: wa...@comcast.net <wa...@comcast.net> Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: RCCG LEADER, ADEBOYE NAMED AMONG WORLD'S... To: USAAfric...@googlegroups.com, USAAfric...@googlegroups.com Cc: "Pius Adesanmi" <piusad...@yahoo.com> Date: Friday, December 26, 2008, 6:31 PM

"I do not accept your rationalization of God's choice of Enoch Adeboye as the recipient of this miracle. Enoch Adeboye is a very wealthy man. He sits atop a mega-Pentecostal denomination. Pentecostalism is the second most lucrative business in Nigeria. It is second only to corruption. Enoch Adeboye does not need that environment-friendly miracle. There are too many poor and needy Nigerians who can't afford gas. Many of his followers chop gbese to attend service on sunday. The ability to do 200 kilometres on empty would make a lot of difference in the lives of such people. Besides, we have no reason to believe that God would elect Enoch Adeboye for any miracles until he has satisfactorily expplained the grossly nepotistic and utterly corrupt import waiver he got from his friend, the massively corrupt Olusegun Obasanjo. Or was that also a miracle that passeth all understanding"   Thank you Pius for your comment. As a Pastor, I agree with your comments above. Of what use is this 200 mile drive on empty gas miracle to the Nigerians who live in abject poverty and deprivation?  We sure need miracles in the areas of good infrastructural development, security to lives and property and moral rejunevation. Was the purpose of this published miracle to entice more followership to swell the coffers of the RCCG?   I am reminded that you should not reap where you did not sow. What has RCCG done to improve the health care delivery of Nigerians? How many primary and secondary schools does the RCCG have in Nigeria? I honestly think it is time to call these Pentecostal Churches to order.   This empty gas story is balderdash.

-------------- Original message -------------- From: Pius Adesanmi <piusad...@yahoo.com>

Hey Sam di Sam!!!   Na your face be dis? Or is this not my friend Sam of the locomotive-length signatures? Merry christmas O. Wey my turkey? And where are your remaining 45 and a half signatures? You and I don't seem to disagree here or have I misread you? Looks like you are in agreement with the point I raised in my initial intervention: we need to apprehend this phenomenon at post-Cartesian levels since those who are interpellated by the power of such narratives do not subscribe to our own schemes of apprehension. They operate at a level where the rational consists in passing exams without studying - hence night vigil grounds have more customers than libraries in our universities during exam period. Yes, George Bush and Obama would certainly have experienced what they both believe to be miracles in their lives. But it is a considerable stretch to equate such with the miracles I hear in testimonies on the Lagos-Ibadan express way. Tell me, will Bush and Obama consider a few hours of electricity& nbsp; a miracle? Will Bush and Obama consider efficient phone service by Verizon and AT&T a miracle? When they go to the gas station and there is gas, do they go - one to his black church, the other to his white church - on sunday morning to scream halleluia? If you listen to what passes for miracles during testimony hour in Pentecostal churches across Nigeria, you will give up on that country. Even the residents of Conakry, Freetown, Mogadishu, Harare, and N'Djamena would be shocked to learn that some of the things they take for granted in their daily lives provide grounds for cacophonous declarations of the miraculous in Nigeria.. I do not accept your rationalization of God's choice of Enoch Adeboye as the recipient of this miracle. Enoch Adeboye is a very wealthy man. He sits atop a mega-Pentecostal denomination. Pentecostalism is the second most lucrative business in Nigeria. It is second only to corruption. Enoch Adeboye does not need that environment-friendly miracle. There are too many poor and needy Nigerians who can't afford gas. Many of his followers chop gbese to attend service on sunday. The ability to do 200 kilometres on empty would make a lot of difference in the lives of such people. Besides, we have no reason to believe that God would elect Enoch Adeboye for any miracles until he has satisfactorily expplained the grossly nepotistic and utterly corrupt import waiver he got from his friend, the massively corrupt Olusegun Obasanjo. Or was that also a miracle that passeth all understanding?

Pastor Afolayan:   E ku ise Oluwa O. It seems to me that your work is cut out for you in this forum. There are too many pagan souls for you to win: Valentine Ojo, Obi Nwakanma, Pius Adesanmi, Amatoritsero (a contraction of: A o mo oun ti orisha nro) and so many other Pharisees and Sadducees lurking around here.  Watch out for Amatoristero especially. His patron saint is Esu - as in the real Esu before ignorant Christians gave him a bad name, mistaking him for their satan.  But never mind. Everytime they mock you, they just give you an opportunity to suffer on account of HIS name. I am sure you have given their names to prayer warriors. I am also sure you meet their ignorance with the chorus: "every kneel shall bow, every tongue confess..."

Pius Pius Adesanmi, Ph.D. Associate Professor Director, Project on New African Literatures (PONAL) Department of English Carleton University Ottawa, Canada K1S 5B6

Tel: +1 613 520 2600 ext.. 1175 www.projectponal.com

--- On Wed, 24/12/08, Samuel Amadi <sama...@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Samuel Amadi <sama...@yahoo.com> Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: RCCG LEADER, ADEBOYE NAMED AMONG WORLD'S... To: USAAfric...@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, 24 December, 2008, 4:03 PM

Prof Pius,   Perhaps, there is still some good logic to this Adeboye issue that we have not yet apprehended. It is also a matter of belief and disbelief.   Now, if you believe in God (a theist), (2) believe that God is as proclaimed in the Bible- personal, and communicative, (3) believe that this God has directly dealing with his children in the way a father relates to his children (4) believe that this God is omnipresent and omnipotent, (5) this God is not some philosopher's abstraction or the naturalist's explanation for geological phenomenon- in fact, believe in same kind of God that eminent scientist and philosopher, Blaise Pascal, who at the moment of his conversion shouted 'Fire, fire, personal God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, my own God" believed in- that is, an interventionist God, then you may believe that this God can enable one of his 'faithful' children, Adeboye, to run some distance without fuel in a very terrible condition. In the story Adeboye provided a clue by saying that the miracle was in response to his dire situation.

I think it is elementary and commonplace to associate claims of miracles with pentecostalism, whether in 'benighted' Nigeria or your 'enlightened' Canada or the US. I am a pentecostal myself and do believe in those miracles. I have recieved some myself. You make this miracle sound extraordinary... I am sure, any pentecostal, including George Bush and Obama (I am thinking the church Obama attended for 25years (Rev. Wrights's church is pentecostal) will not be stupefied by the claim.

Now, we may also challenge the facts of this miracle. Whether it is actually possible to travel from Ibadan to Lagos as a 200km stretch. This is fair game. Again, it is legitimate to believe in miracle as I do and still query and worry about the damage of pentecostalism and its associated corruptions and inanites to social psyche in Nigeria. This morning I was discussing with my wife the sort of hardship and risks to life people go through just to attend Holy Ghost Night Vigil in Lagos-Ibadan expressway. I thought some aspect of that consciousness is cultic and ignorant. My wife offered a perspective: subjectivity. She argued that these 'pitiable' congregants may be happy to go through all these to experience freedom or release. I agreed. It is like going through such sufferings to line up in the rain to listen to something as patently unprofitable as Ludacris songs or to risk one's life to attend a footbal match like some frenzy English football fans.   My point is; from some perspective of rational religious faith running without gas through divine enablement is not fantastic. What such faith and miracles do to our social psyche is good research material   Sam Dr. Sam Amadi Director, (Research& Programs) Ken Nnamani Center for Leadership & Development Abuja, Nigeria 234-803-329-9879 --- On Wed, 12/24/08, Pius Adesanmi <piusad...@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Pius Adesanmi <piusad...@yahoo.com> Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: RCCG LEADER, ADEBOYE NAMED AMONG WORLD'S... To: USAAfric...@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 24, 2008, 7:17 AM

Dr Kassim:   When my graduation is nigh, be assured that I will make you church treasurer and Baba ni Israeli. As I am still very much a humanist observer of that interesting phenomenon - and a student of their language - I want you to pay attention to the issues I raised. Why don't you answer my questions? And while we are at it, you will also have to tell me how to reconcile my kegite affiliation with my upgraded membership of ALL the pentecostal churches I attend as a student of the social.  Mind you, Nigerian pentecostals as scholarly material is not just for folks like me. You are a Physician. There is work for you on the Lagos-Ibadan expressway. Go there when next you are home and do a study of the mental universe that would make those folks gyrate towards Enoch Adeboye's opium rather than Ola Kassim's Hippocratic solutions when they have headache.That would make you a curious physician with a social calling. Curiousity is the heart and soul  o f my own calling. Being in those places is work for me. I'm a student of culture. Tell me, can you really study Nigeria without being a student of pentecostal culture?

Pius Pius Adesanmi, Ph.D. Associate Professor Director, Project on New African Literatures (PONAL) Department of English Carleton University Ottawa, Canada K1S 5B6

Tel: +1 613 520 2600 ext... 1175

www.projectponal.com --- On Wed, 24/12/08, Olaka...@aol.com <Olaka...@aol.com> wrote:

From: Olaka...@aol.com <Olaka...@aol.com> Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: RCCG LEADER, ADEBOYE NAMED AMONG WORLD'S... To: USAAfric...@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, 24 December, 2008, 4:16 AM

Professor Adesanmi:   I think you have graduated from an observer (student) to a full fledged inductee.   You are already a true believer. I think you should be negotiating to establish a franchise of the Redeemed  or Mountain of Fire Church  at the Carleton Univeristy campus in Ottawa with yourself as the preacher and the local overseer.   Bye,   Ola

In a message dated 23/12/2008 11:02:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, piusad...@yahoo.com writes:

All of you are missing the point - the little psychological comforts that the followers of this Daddy General Overseer draw from such exutory voyages in (apologies to Edward Said). In a huge joke of a country held hostage by orangutans in Abuja, extreme hardship creates the industry of escape that pentecostalism represents. People need to voyage desperately into something; they need to voyage away from the Nigeria manufactured and supervised by the integrity-challenged buffoons in Abuja. Enter Enoch Adeboye, William Kumuyi, Chris Oyakhilome, David Oyedepo, Helen Ukpabio, creating colonies of pyrrhic happiness for an unquestioning community of faith. In engaging the exutory narratives of the Daddy General Overseers/Founders/General Superintendents et caetera et ceatera of Nigerian pentecostal denominations, we ask the wrong questions when we bring logic, science,  and reason to the table. Hence, how is it possible to travel 200 kilometres on an empty tank, when Lagos - Ibadan is only about 117 kilometres or less... At 200 kilometres, he would be in the atlantic ocean or Benin Republic. Those are rational, logical questions thrown at a phenomenon operating at other realms. We are chasing the wind when we use such modalities. When was the last time this former Professor of mathematics - Kumuyi too was once a professor of mathematics. What is wrong with that discipline? - pretended to logic, reason, and scientifically plausible explanations of phenomena? Adeboye parted ways with Rene Descartes in the early 1980s. The proper epistemic/ethical question(s) should be: do we, as students of the social, not have the obligation to pay closer attention to people's right to create these alternative realities and 'possess their possessions' in chthonic realms when such possessions (road, light, water, human rights, jobs, security, basic respect of citizens' life etc) are denied them in the real, circumambient world by what is arguably the most irresponsible state in Africa? Try to picture the joy in the eyes of the faithful when they listened to Daddy General Overseer give the testimony of this miracle in his megachurch on the Lagos-Ibadan expressway. Daddy drove for 200 kilometres without gas. Somebody shout amen!  That's one week of bliss, happiness, and pure nirvana for his followers. Take them out of the opiate happiness of this narrative and what do they have left? Yar'Adua's Nigeria. Personally, I'll take Enoch Adeboye's opium. Any time, anyday. Just don't give me Yar'Adua's Nigeria. Anything but Yar'Adua's Nigeria. One thing I never miss when I'm home is my scholarly-observer presence on the Lagos-Ibadan expressway. I love to attend those churches - Redeem, Mountain of Fire, Christ Embassy etc. If you are a scholar in the Humanities and you don't attend those churches while in Nigeria, you are missing fantastic material. Apart from being a student of the rich dict ion of Nigerian pentecostals, I love the part of their service when they give testimonies. That is when you are faced with the tragedy of Nigeria. Everything that is taken for granted in Cotonou and Accra is an occasion for flowery testimonies and shouting festivals in these churches: "my son's naming ceremony was approaching. Our generator had broken down and there was no diesel to run it anyway. So we went to Daddy General Overseer and he went with us to the Lord in prayer. For seven days we prayed and fasted. We came against the spirit of darkness. We came against every contrary spirit. We bound every power, every dominion, every principality in NEPA. And you won't believe this, on D day, NEPA did not take light for the entire 3 hours my son's naming ceremony lasted.. Yes, we had electricity from NEPA for the whole three hours!! Somebody shout two hundred and a half halleluyahs to my father in heaven!!!" Do we come to this testimony with lessons in r eason, progress, rationality, and the minimal functions of a state that most Nigerians have forgotten? Or do we respect and engage the three hours of sanity and happiness that Enoch Adeboye's alternative world has afforded this testimonee in Nigeria's draconian context of insanity?

Pius Pius Adesanmi, Ph.D. Associate Professor Director, Project on New African Literatures (PONAL) Department of English Carleton University Ottawa, Canada K1S 5B6

Tel: +1 613 520 2600 ext... 1175

[Dr. Valentine Ojo]

Pastor Professor Dr. Sam Amadi

Director, (Research& Programs)
Ken Nnamani Center for Leadership & Development
Abuja, Nigeria

Sir:

You wrote that "Just this morning [your] wife reminded [you] to recount
again [your] three heros in life. [You] reminded her that they are:

(1) Barack Obama - for being the best example of a political leader-

intelligent without being academic, smart without being naughty,
idealistic without being disoriented from reality.

(2) Pastor Adeboye - for being an epitome of an honesty and passionate
believer in God," and who claimed that "God pushed his car 200 miles on
empty" by the "sheer power and efficacy of prayers" alone! And you went on
to write an entire EULOGY to your miracle-working Pastor Adeboye - your
REAL HERO!

(3) Gani Fawehinmi - for teaching [you] and modeling integrity in
professional and public life," a man who has been to prison repeatedly for
his moral and ethical convictions. (He happens to be my maternal uncle by
the way!)

How do these THREE disparate men fit together?

If Pope Benedict were to have preached on Christmas day to his gathered
audience at the Vatican that he rides around in his Papal-Mobile SOLELY on
the "power and efficacy of prayers" - no gas, no electrical or mechanical
propulsion of any kind, and exhorted all Catholics to go back to their
homes and pray for similar miracles to be able to drive their vehicles
around - 200 miles on empty...!

How many Catholics do you think would still remain as his flock today - or
that would not have demanded that he be removed immediately for mental
dementia and impending madness?

But we all know that Pope Benedict is more INTELLIGENT, more EDUCATED and
more PRAGMATIC than Nigeria's self-ordained 'Juju Pastors'.

- Nigeria established a Center for Strategic Studies in Kuru', but the
only strategy she has perfected is how to dismiss a performing police
officer who has just finished his course at Kuru - for daring to try to
fight CORRUPTION that has eaten deep into the body polity of Nigeria and
Nigerians, and has become endemic.

- Babangida similarly established a 'Center for Democratic Studies' headed
by Professor Omo Omoruyi. But Nigeria ended up with the two worst
DICTATORSHIPS Nigerians have ever experienced - Babangida and Abacha,
followed by Olusegun Obasanjo's undemocratic democracy!

- Now we have you, Dr. Sam Amadi, Director (Research & Programs), Center
for Leadership & Development, Abuja, Nigeria, recommending the likes of
Pastor Adeboye as the kind of people Nigeria needs for "Leadership &
Development".

Indeed!

And we are all living witnesses of how much "Leadership & Development"
Nigerians are getting as a result of your laudable efforts as "Director
(Research & Programs), Center for Leadership & Development, Abuja,
Nigeria."

The more I read about people like you, the better I understand why Nigeria
has remained BACKWARD and UNDERDEVELOPED - and will remain so for the next
millennium!

We only need to look at your choice of "hero" and "role model" for your
children too - I presume.

And you concluded grandiosely with:

"But, first, Sam, Pius, Obi, etc must first humble themselves, admit that
they are sinners and contributory negligent or complicit in the crisis of
value in Nigeria and be discipline like Adeboye to make the difference.
Note that all my heros are discipline and focused people who know how to

drive themselves" - in vehicles that can travel 200 miles on emorty in
Nigera!

No wonder "The change [the likes of Adeboye] envision starts with them."

And ends with them too!

With people like you at the helm of affairs in Nigeria, "saints and holy
men" who "must first humble themselves, admit that they are sinners and
contributory negligent or complicit in the crisis of value in Nigeria," we
know where Nigeria is heading - towards IMMINENT DOOM!

But Pastor Sam Amadi, please speak for yourself, and for your mentor,
Pastor Adeboye, for you people are the REAL "sinners and contributory
negligent or complicit in the crisis of value in Nigeria!"

Compare your 'Eulogy to Pastor Adeboye' with the more befitting
conclusions Ms Evelyn Joe arrived at about our African "intellectuals":

"Great Words have existed since the creation of humankind. The point is -
the vision of the prolific African intelligentsia appears to be limited by
more armchair descriptions and prescriptions. Theorists are afflicted with
undetermined bouts of allergies when required to apply their own theories
with evident public service." - Evelyn Joe

Are we therefore in anyway still surprised at the results of the kinds of
services the Sam Amadis, the Pastor Adeboyes, et al, have rendered for
Nigeria and Nigerians in the past 40+ years:

"Subscription to the ideas seems to have promised the subscribers self
enrichment and ruling with impunity, protected by immunity, all secured by
police and military power concentrated at the center. The outcome is
therefore not surprising, and that includes increasing poverty, ethnic
riots leading to losses in lives and properties, general insecurity all
over the country, decaying infrastructure, schooling without education,
higher and higher rates of unemployment and unemployability among the
youths, hospitals without heath care, peoples without hope, all emanating
from governing without accountability."

This is WHAT your REAL HERO, Pastor Adeboye, has helped entrench in Nigeria!

Throwing in Fawehinmi and Obama for good measure was a mere ruse, a
smokescreen, an intellectually dishonest sleight of hand.

Good job!

Dr. Valentine Ojo
Tall Timbers, MD

"Samuel Amadi" <sama...@yahoo.com> writes:

> Pius,
>  
> Sorry, I have been observing xmas with my family (I couldnt travel home
> because 'things hard') so I could not respond quickly.
>  
> Belief and unbelief (or disbelief) is a deep state that the transcience of
> email discourse cannot deal. I am a believer. Pastor Adeboye is my pastor.
> Just this morning my wife reminded me to recount again my three heros in
> life. I reminded her that they are (1) Barack Obama- for being the best
> example of a political leader- intelligent without being academic, smart
> without being naughty, idealistic without being disoriented from reality.
> Long before the Obamania, I had chosen Barack as my model of true,
> intelligent, sincere politician with understanding of the province and
> purpose of politics.
>  
> (2) Pastor Adeboye- for being an epitome of an honesty and passionate
> believer in God. Adeboye teach me what it means to believe in God:
> Obedience. Let me narrate two encounters with Pastor Adeboye that

> reinforce his holiness.. In 1995, I formed a christian radical group

> miraculous in Nigeria. I do not accept your rationalization of God's

> Tel: +1 613 520 2600 ext. 1175

> extraordinary.. I am sure, any pentecostal, including George Bush and

> Tel: +1 613 520 2600 ext.. 1175
>
> www.projectponal.com
>

> tank, when Lagos - Ibadan is only about 117 kilometres or less.. At 200

> ceremony lasted. Yes, we had electricity from NEPA for the whole three

> hours!! Somebody shout two hundred and a half halleluyahs to my father in
> heaven!!!" Do we come to
> this testimony with lessons in r eason, progress, rationality, and the
> minimal functions of a state that most Nigerians have forgotten? Or do we
> respect and engage the three hours of sanity and happiness that Enoch
> Adeboye's alternative world has afforded this testimonee in Nigeria's
> draconian context of insanity?
>  
> Pius
>
> Pius Adesanmi, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor
> Director, Project on New African Literatures (PONAL)
> Department of English
> Carleton University
> Ottawa, Canada
> K1S 5B6
>

> Tel: +1 613 520 2600 ext.. 1175
>
> www.projectponal.com
>

> Christians around the globe..

> pressing social issues.. He recently made a public-service announcement

> condemning discrimination against people with HIV. He distributes his
> message globally through Facebook and MySpace, a self-published magazine
> called "The Mandate," and a digital-cable channel called Open Heavens TV.
> His appearance is straitlaced: he always wears a pinstriped suit, a
> gleaming white shirt and a bow tie.
> Adeboye experienced a miracle recently on a long and dangerous stretch of
> highway near Lagos, he says. His car was out of gas, and the gas stations
> were empty. Then God spoke to him, clearly, and said to keep driving.
> Adeboye drove 200 miles on empty. Could his gas gauge have been broken?
> No, he insists, God intervened "because of the need … in a crisis."
> Adeboye knows well what some in the West have forgotten: in today's world,
> everyone needs a Daddy.
>
>
>
>
>

[wa...@comcast.net]

Dr. Ojo:

 

Thank you for the clarity and the ruse in Pastor (Prof) Sam Amadi's comments.

 

I am thoroughly saddened that characters of dissimilar moral backgrounds are brought into this discussion of the "Adeboye empty-gas miracle just to make a point."  The fact is that Sam Amadi's allegiance to Rev Adeboye drives his writings irrespective of the irrelevance of this miracle to Nigerians and humanity in general. Amadi is being disingenuous.

 

Fawehinmi (Moslem and Lawyer) is a hero and by the way has done more for changing the Nigerian polity than RCCG,  and Obama (Christian and Lawyer) another hero who is changing the political scene of the USA and the world. Then Rev Adeboye ( General Overseer RCCG, Christian Minister) the ultimate hero changing world Christendon?

 

Nigeria surely has a long way to go, when intellectuals just blindly follow some religious leaders without questioning in an environment bereft of any goodies of this world. Yet, these leaders live in opulence while their members struggle to pay bills and cannot afford three square meals. Some of these members probably do not have cars. Thus the 'empty-gas miracle' makes no sense to them and we are expected to hail this 'miracle?' 

 

Steve Nwabuzor

 

 

 

 

 

> How many Catholics do you think woul d still remain as his flock today - or

> enrich ment and ruling with impunity, protected by immunity, all secured by

> > (2) Pastor Adeboy e- for being an epitome of an honesty and passionate

> > can dare a crowd of over 500,000 people to take his boo ks and come back to

> > pay. You mean that Nigerians can be trusted to be so responsible? Then I
> > heard the vioce of God again, This is the hallmark of great faith and
> > godliness.
> > To trust that the spirit of God will convict people not to cheat you.
> > This is like Jesus who rebuked his disciples for defending him when he
> > was attacked. My father in heaven can protect me. Besides, as long as I
> > do the will of him who sent me, not seeking my own good, I can suffer no
> > loss. Great faith. I dare a charlatan to do this. I dare a less than
> > Adeboye to do this. Don't bother to ask, I paid my money and other did
> > two. The hollow of a holyman. Ask those who meet Ghandi.
> >
> > (3) Gani Fawehinmi- for teaching me and modeling integrity in professional
> > and public life. I am proud and blessed to have started my career as a

> &g t; lawyer with Gani and to have remained one of his favorite mentees. I

> > continue to count him my boss. Anybody can accuse Gani of anything-ranging
> > from infantilism, rascality, idealism, love of publicity, etc, but no one
> > can accuse Gani of corruption. You can't say Gani exchanged personal
> > interest for public interest. You cant say Gani donated his awesome
> > intellectual and star power to the service of the rich or powerful who
> > want to defeat public good or public interest. Gani is the ultimate man of
> > discipline who has refused to be confused morally. Gani is not a socialist
> > a radical or anything. He is simply a moralist.
> >
> > So, my brothers and sisters, I respect these three men even as I can find
> > gaps in their knowledge or practice. God never makes a perfect man.

> > Oftentimes, I feel like I am Adeboye and smash the ego of t hese criminals

> > in power. But, Adeboye is Adeboye. Gani is Gani. God has used Adeboye to
> > do a great thing in Nigeria. The next work of cleansening pentecostalism
> > and defeating corruption and injustice remains for someone, Sam Amadi,
> > Puis, Obi Nwakanma, etc.
> >
> > But, first, Sam, Pius, Obi, etc must first humble themselves, admit that
> > they are sinners and contributory negligent or complicit in the crisis of
> > value in Nigeria and be discipline like Adeboye to make the difference.
> > Note that all my heros are discipline and focused people who know how to
> > drive themselves. The change they envision starts with them.
> >
> > Merry Xmas
> >
> > Sam
> >
> > Dr. Sam Amadi
> > Director, (Research& Programs)
> > Ken Nnamani Center for Leadership & Development

> > Abuj a, Nigeria
> > 234-803-329-9879
> >
> > --- On Fri, 12/26/08, wa...@comcast.net wrote:

> >
> > From: wa...@comcast.net
> > Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: RCCG LEADER, ADEBOYE NAMED AMONG
> > WORLD'S...
> > To: USAAfric...@googlegroups.com, USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
> > Cc: "Pius Adesanmi"
> > Date: Friday, December 26, 2008, 6:31 PM
> >
> >
> >
> > "I do not accept your rationalization of God's choice of Enoch Adeboye as
> > the recipient of this miracle. Enoch Adeboye is a very wealthy man. He
> > sits atop a mega-Pentecostal denomination. Pentecostalism is the second
> > most lucrative business in Nigeria. It is second only to corruption. Enoch
> > Adeboye does not need that environment-friendly miracle. There are to o
> > many poor and needy Nigerians who can't afford gas. Many of his followers
> > chop gbese to attend service on sunday. The ability to do 200 kilometres
> > on empty would make a lot of difference in the lives of such people.
> > Besides, we have no reason to believe that God would elect Enoch Adeboye
> > for any miracles until he has satisfactorily expplained the grossly
> > nepotistic and utterly corrupt import waiver he got from his friend, the
> > massively corrupt Olusegun Obasanjo. Or was that also a miracle that
> > passeth all understanding"
> >
> > Thank you Pius for your comment. As a Pastor, I agree with your comments
> > above. Of what use is this 200 mile drive on empty gas miracle to the
> > Nigerians who live in abject poverty and deprivation? We sure need
> > miracles in the areas of good infrastructural development, security to

& gt; > lives and property and moral rejunevation. Was the purpose of this

> > published miracle to entice more followership to swell the coffers of the
> > RCCG?
> >
> > I am reminded that you should not reap where you did not sow. What has
> > RCCG done to improve the health care delivery of Nigerians? How many
> > primary and secondary schools does the RCCG have in Nigeria? I honestly
> > think it is time to call these Pentecostal Churches to order.
> >
> > This empty gas story is balderdash.
> >
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: Pius Adesanmi
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> > Hey Sam di Sam!!!
> >
> > Na your face be dis? Or is this not my friend Sam of the locomotive-length
> > signatures? Merry christmas O. Wey my turkey? And where are your remaining
> > 45 and a half signatures? You and I don't seem to disagree here or have I
> > misread you? Looks like you are in agreement with the point I raised in my
> > initial intervention: we need to apprehend this phenomenon at
> > post-Cartesian levels since those who are interpellated by the power of
> > such narratives do not subscribe to our own schemes of apprehension. They
> > operate at a level where the rational consists in passing exams without
> > studying - hence night vigil grounds have more customers than libraries in
> > our universities during exam period. Yes, George Bush and Obama would
> > certainly have experienced what they both believe to be miracles in their
> > lives. But it is a considerable stretch to equate such with the miracles I
> > hear in testimonies on the Lagos-Ibadan express way. Tell me, will Bush

> & gt; and Obama consider a

> > few hours of electricity& nbsp; a miracle? Will Bush and Obama consider
> > efficient phone service by Verizon and AT&T a miracle? When they go to
> > the gas station and there is gas, do they go - one to his black church,
> > the other to his white church - on sunday morning to scream halleluia? If
> > you listen to what passes for miracles during testimony hour in
> > Pentecostal churches across Nigeria, you will give up on that country.
> > Even the residents of Conakry, Freetown, Mogadishu, Harare, and N'Djamena
> > would be shocked to learn that some of the things they take for granted
> > in their daily lives provide grounds for cacophonous declarations of the
> > miraculous in Nigeria. I do not accept your rationalization of God's
> > choice of Enoch Adeboye as the recipient of this miracle. Enoch Adeboye

> > is a very w ealthy man. He sits atop a mega-Pentecostal denomination.

> > Pentecostalism is the second most lucrative business in Nigeria. It is
> > second only to corruption. Enoch Adeboye
> > does not need that environment-friendly miracle. There are too many poor
> > and needy Nigerians who can't afford gas. Many of his followers chop
> > gbese to attend service on sunday. The ability to do 200 kilometres on
> > empty would make a lot of difference in the lives of such people.
> > Besides, we have no reason to believe that God would elect Enoch Adeboye
> > for any miracles until he has satisfactorily expplained the grossly
> > nepotistic and utterly corrupt import waiver he got from his friend, the
> > massively corrupt Olusegun Obasanjo. Or was that also a miracle that
> > passeth all understanding?
> >
> >
> > Pastor Afolayan:
> >

> & gt; E ku ise Oluwa O. It seems to me that your work is cut out for you in this

> > forum. There are too many pagan souls for you to win: Valentine Ojo, Obi
> > Nwakanma, Pius Adesanmi, Amatoritsero (a contraction of: A o mo oun ti
> > orisha nro) and so many other Pharisees and Sadducees lurking around
> > here. Watch out for Amatoristero especially. His patron saint is Esu - as
> > in the real Esu before ignorant Christians gave him a bad name, mistaking
> > him for their satan. But never mind. Everytime they mock you, they just
> > give you an opportunity to suffer on account of HIS name. I am sure you
> > have given their names to prayer warriors. I am also sure you meet their
> > ignorance with the chorus: "every kneel shall bow, every tongue
> > confess..."
> >
> > Pius
> >
> > Pius Adesanmi, Ph.D.
> > Associate Professor

&gt ; > Director, Project on New African Literatures (PONAL)

> > Department of English
> > Carleton University
> > Ottawa, Canada
> > K1S 5B6
> >
> > Tel: +1 613 520 2600 ext. 1175
> >
> > www.projectponal.com
> >

> > --- On Wed, 24/12/08, Samuel Amadi wrote:

> >
> > From: Samuel Amadi
> > Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: RCCG LEADER, ADEBOYE NAMED AMONG
> > WORLD'S...
> > To: USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
> > Date: Wednesday, 24 December, 2008, 4:03 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Prof Pius,
> >
> > Perhaps, there is still some good logic to this Adeboye issue that we have
> > not yet apprehended. It is also a matter of belief and disbelief.
> >

& gt; > Now, if you believe in God (a theist), (2) believe that God is as

> > proclaimed in the Bible- personal, and communicative, (3) believe that
> > this God has directly dealing with his children in the way a father
> > relates to his children (4) believe that this God is omnipresent and
> > omnipotent, (5) this God is not some philosopher's abstraction or the
> > naturalist's explanation for geological phenomenon- in fact, believe in
> > same kind of God that eminent scientist and philosopher, Blaise Pascal,
> > who at the moment of his conversion shouted 'Fire, fire, personal God, the
> > God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, my own God" believed in- that is, an
> > interventionist God, then you may believe that this God can enable one of
> > his 'faithful' children, Adeboye, to run some distance without fuel in a

> > very terrible condition. In the story Adeboye provide d a clue by saying

> > that the miracle was in response to his dire situation.
> >
> > I think it is elementary and commonplace to associate claims of miracles
> > with pentecostalism, whether in 'benighted' Nigeria or your 'enlightened'
> > Canada or the US. I am a pentecostal myself and do believe in those
> > miracles. I have recieved some myself. You make this miracle sound
> > extraordinary.. I am sure, any pentecostal, including George Bush and
> > Obama (I am thinking the church Obama attended for 25years (Rev. Wrights's
> > church is pentecostal) will not be stupefied by the claim.
> >
> > Now, we may also challenge the facts of this miracle. Whether it is
> > actually possible to travel from Ibadan to Lagos as a 200km stretch. This
> > is fair game. Again, it is legitimate to believe in miracle as I do and

> > still query and worry abo ut the damage of pentecostalism and its

> > associated corruptions and inanites to social psyche in Nigeria. This
> > morning I was discussing with my wife the sort of hardship and risks to
> > life people go through just to attend Holy Ghost Night Vigil in
> > Lagos-Ibadan expressway. I thought some aspect of that consciousness is
> > cultic and ignorant. My wife offered a perspective: subjectivity. She
> > argued that these 'pitiable' congregants may be happy to go through all
> > these to experience freedom or release. I agreed. It is like going through
> > such sufferings to line up in the rain to listen to something as patently
> > unprofitable as Ludacris songs or to risk one's life to attend a footbal
> > match like some frenzy English football fans.
> >
> > My point is; from some perspective of rational religious faith running

> > without gas thr ough divine enablement is not fantastic. What such faith

> > and miracles do to our social psyche is good research material
> >
> > Sam
> >
> > Dr. Sam Amadi
> > Director, (Research& Programs)
> > Ken Nnamani Center for Leadership & Development
> > Abuja, Nigeria
> > 234-803-329-9879
> >

> > --- On Wed, 12/24/08, Pius Adesanmi wrote:

> > --- On Wed, 24/12/08, Olaka...@aol.com wrote:

&gt ; > Pius Adesanmi, Ph.D.

> > Associate Professor
> > Director, Project on New African Literatures (PONAL)
> > Department of English
> > Carleton University
> > Ottawa, Canada
> > K1S 5B6
> >
> > Tel: +1 613 520 2600 ext.. 1175
> >
> > www.projectponal.com
> >

> > --- On Tue, 23/12/08, Gemini wrote:

> >
> > From: Gemini
> > Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: RCCG LEADER, ADEBOYE NAMED AMONG
> > WORLD'S MOS...
> > To: USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
> > Date: Tuesday, 23 December, 2008, 8:41 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Forgive my failure to instantly believe, but if his tank ran dry on a
> > 'dangerous stretch of highway' near Lagos, in which direction was he

> > driving fo r 200 km? Was it 200 km of dangerous highway? Was he going TO

> > one can drive 200 kms. on an e mpty tank.

> > Bye,
> >
> > Ola
> >
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 22/12/2008 2:47:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> > Akan...@aol.com writes:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Seamus Murphy / Getty Images for Newsweek
> > E. A. Adeboye
> >
> > THE GLOBAL ELITE
> > 49: E. A. Adeboye
> >
> > A Pentecostal preacher from Nigeria has made big plans to save your soul.
> >
> > By Lisa Miller | NEWSWEEK
> >
> > Published Dec 20, 2008
> > From the magazine issue dated Jan 5, 2009
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> > You may never have heard of E. A. Adeboye , but the pastor of The Redeemed

> > Christian Church of God is one of the most successful preachers in the
> > world. He boasts that his church has outposts in 110 countries. He has
> > 14,000 branches—claiming 5 million members—in his home country of Nigeria
> > alone. There are 360 RCCG churches in Britain, and about the same number
> > in U.S. cities like Chicago, Dallas, and Tallahassee, Fla. Adeboye says he
> > has sent missionaries to China and such Islamic countries as Pakistan and
> > Malaysia. His aspirations are outsize. He wants to save souls, and he
> > wants to do so by planting churches the way Starbucks used to build coffee
> > shops: everywhere.
> > "In the developing world we say we want churches to be within five
> > minutes' walk of every person," he tells NEWSWEEK. "In the developed

> > world, we say five minutes of driving." Such a goal may s eem outlandish,

> > prosperity and healing attracts converts withou t savings accounts or

> > health insurance. The emphasis on Biblical inerrancy and on rigid social
> > rules—no drinking, no smoking, no premarital sex—offers structure for
> > people whose lives have been devastated by addiction or illness. In places
> > like Africa (and indeed, like Palin's Alaska at the turn of the last
> > century), Pentecostalism finds fertile ground among adherents of native
> > religions who already believe the world is alive with spirits.
> > By Pentecostal standards, Adeboye is mainstream. Formerly a mathematics
> > instructor at the University of Lagos, he began working at RCCG
> > translating the previous pastor's sermons from Yoruba to English. He took
> > over the congregation in 1981. His success, he says, is rooted in his
> > message. "Pentecostals have such an impact because they talk of the here

> > and now, not just the by and by , he says. "We pray for the sick, but we

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> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "USA-Africa Dialogue
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[Dr. Valentine Ojo]

Steve Nwabuzor:

Thank you, sir, and may God bless you!

It is a relief to know that there are still many people out there who do
not only see "virtual insults" and "Valentine Ojo screaming" in what
Valentine Ojo writes - in their futile attempts to cover up their own
moral and ethical decadence, and their own intellectual vacuousness.

Emperors dancing naked - thinking and believing they are fully clothed in
their virtual, imaginary "Emperor's Robes of Office!"

We will still rescue Nigeria and Africa from these intellectual charlatans
and religious fraudsters.

Or at least, we shall continue to try until we dislodge them and banish
them to the "hell on earth" which they have prepared for their fellow
Nigerians/Africans, while they and their minions, the Samuel Amadis, the
Sadiq Manzans, the Joe Igietsemes, et al, are living in unsightly
OPULENCE, or aspiring to do so!

In the midst of unimaginable human wretchedness, hopelessness, suffering
and utter destitution!

'Praising the Lord' for their ill-accumulated 'wealth.'

Dr. Valentine Ojo
Tall Timbers, MD

>> How many Catholics do you think would still remain as his flock today -

>> enrichment and ruling with impunity, protected by immunity, all secured

>> > (2) Pastor Adeboye- for being an epitome of an honesty and passionate

>> > can dare a crowd of over 500,000 people to take his books and come

>> back to
>> > pay. You mean that Nigerians can be trusted to be so responsible? Then
>> I
>> > heard the vioce of God again, This is the hallmark of great faith and
>> > godliness.
>> > To trust that the spirit of God will convict people not to cheat you.
>> > This is like Jesus who rebuked his disciples for defending him when he
>> > was attacked. My father in heaven can protect me. Besides, as long as
>> I
>> > do the will of him who sent me, not seeking my own good, I can suffer
>> no
>> > loss. Great faith. I dare a charlatan to do this. I dare a less than
>> > Adeboye to do this. Don't bother to ask, I paid my money and other did
>> > two. The hollow of a holyman. Ask those who meet Ghandi.
>> >
>> > (3) Gani Fawehinmi- for teaching me and modeling integrity in
>> professional
>> > and public life. I am proud and blessed to have started my career as a

>> > Abuja, Nigeria
>> > 234-803-329-9879
>> >

>> > --- On Fri, 12/26/08, wa...@comcast.net wrote:
>> >
>> > From: wa...@comcast.net
>> > Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: RCCG LEADER, ADEBOYE NAMED
>> AMONG
>> > WORLD'S...
>> > To: USAAfric...@googlegroups.com,
>> USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
>> > Cc: "Pius Adesanmi"
>> > Date: Friday, December 26, 2008, 6:31 PM
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > "I do not accept your rationalization of God's choice of Enoch Adeboye
>> as
>> > the recipient of this miracle. Enoch Adeboye is a very wealthy man. He
>> > sits atop a mega-Pentecostal denomination. Pentecostalism is the
>> second
>> > most lucrative business in Nigeria. It is second only to corruption.
>> Enoch

>> > Adeboye does not need that environment-friendly miracle. There are too
>> > many poor and needy Nigerians who can't afford gas. Many of his
>> followers
>> > chop gbese to attend service on sunday. The ability to do 200
>> kilometres
>> > on empty would make a lot of difference in the lives of such people.
>> > Besides, we have no reason to believe that God would elect Enoch
>> Adeboye
>> > for any miracles until he has satisfactorily expplained the grossly
>> > nepotistic and utterly corrupt import waiver he got from his friend,
>> the
>> > massively corrupt Olusegun Obasanjo. Or was that also a miracle that

>> > passeth all understanding"
>> >
>> > Thank you Pius for your comment. As a Pastor, I agree with your
>> comments
>> > above. Of what use is this 200 mile drive on empty gas miracle to the
>> > Nigerians who live in abject poverty and deprivation? We sure need
>> > miracles in the areas of good infrastructural development, security to

>> > and Obama consider a
>> > few hours of electricity& nbsp; a miracle? Will Bush and Obama
>> consider
>> > efficient phone service by Verizon and AT&T a miracle? When they go to
>> > the gas station and there is gas, do they go - one to his black
>> church,
>> > the other to his white church - on sunday morning to scream halleluia?
>> If
>> > you listen to what passes for miracles during testimony hour in
>> > Pentecostal churches across Nigeria, you will give up on that country.
>> > Even the residents of Conakry, Freetown, Mogadishu, Harare, and
>> N'Djamena
>> > would be shocked to learn that some of the things they take for
>> granted
>> > in their daily lives provide grounds for cacophonous declarations of
>> the
>> > miraculous in Nigeria. I do not accept your rationalization of God's
>> > choice of Enoch Adeboye as the recipient of this miracle. Enoch
>> Adeboye

>> > is a very wealthy man. He sits atop a mega-Pentecostal denomination.
>> > Pentecostalism is the second most lucrative business in Nigeria. It is
>> > second only to corruption. Enoch Adeboye

>> > does not need that environment-friendly miracle. There are too many
>> poor
>> > and needy Nigerians who can't afford gas. Many of his followers chop
>> > gbese to attend service on sunday. The ability to do 200 kilometres on
>> > empty would make a lot of difference in the lives of such people.
>> > Besides, we have no reason to believe that God would elect Enoch
>> Adeboye
>> > for any miracles until he has satisfactorily expplained the grossly
>> > nepotistic and utterly corrupt import waiver he got from his friend,
>> the
>> > massively corrupt Olusegun Obasanjo. Or was that also a miracle that
>> > passeth all understanding?
>> >
>> >
>> > Pastor Afolayan:
>> >

>> > E ku ise Oluwa O. It seems to me that your work is cut out for you in
>> this
>> > forum. There are too many pagan souls for you to win: Valentine Ojo,
>> Obi
>> > Nwakanma, Pius Adesanmi, Amatoritsero (a contraction of: A o mo oun ti
>> > orisha nro) and so many other Pharisees and Sadducees lurking around
>> > here. Watch out for Amatoristero especially. His patron saint is Esu -
>> as
>> > in the real Esu before ignorant Christians gave him a bad name,
>> mistaking
>> > him for their satan. But never mind. Everytime they mock you, they
>> just
>> > give you an opportunity to suffer on account of HIS name. I am sure
>> you
>> > have given their names to prayer warriors. I am also sure you meet
>> their
>> > ignorance with the chorus: "every kneel shall bow, every tongue
>> > confess..."
>> >
>> > Pius
>> >
>> > Pius Adesanmi, Ph.D.
>> > Associate Professor

>> > Director, Project on New African Literatures (PONAL)
>> > Department of English
>> > Carleton University
>> > Ottawa, Canada
>> > K1S 5B6
>> >
>> > Tel: +1 613 520 2600 ext. 1175
>> >
>> > www.projectponal.com
>> >
>> > --- On Wed, 24/12/08, Samuel Amadi wrote:
>> >
>> > From: Samuel Amadi
>> > Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: RCCG LEADER, ADEBOYE NAMED
>> AMONG
>> > WORLD'S...
>> > To: USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
>> > Date: Wednesday, 24 December, 2008, 4:03 PM
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Prof Pius,
>> >
>> > Perhaps, there is still some good logic to this Adeboye issue that we
>> have
>> > not yet apprehended. It is also a matter of belief and disbelief.
>> >

>> > Now, if you believe in God (a theist), (2) believe that God is as
>> > proclaimed in the Bible- personal, and communicative, (3) believe that
>> > this God has directly dealing with his children in the way a father
>> > relates to his children (4) believe that this God is omnipresent and
>> > omnipotent, (5) this God is not some philosopher's abstraction or the
>> > naturalist's explanation for geological phenomenon- in fact, believe
>> in
>> > same kind of God that eminent scientist and philosopher, Blaise
>> Pascal,
>> > who at the moment of his conversion shouted 'Fire, fire, personal God,
>> the
>> > God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, my own God" believed in- that is, an
>> > interventionist God, then you may believe that this God can enable one
>> of
>> > his 'faithful' children, Adeboye, to run some distance without fuel in
>> a

>> > very terrible condition. In the story Adeboye provided a clue by

>> saying
>> > that the miracle was in response to his dire situation.
>> >
>> > I think it is elementary and commonplace to associate claims of
>> miracles
>> > with pentecostalism, whether in 'benighted' Nigeria or your
>> 'enlightened'
>> > Canada or the US. I am a pentecostal myself and do believe in those
>> > miracles. I have recieved some myself. You make this miracle sound
>> > extraordinary.. I am sure, any pentecostal, including George Bush and
>> > Obama (I am thinking the church Obama attended for 25years (Rev.
>> Wrights's
>> > church is pentecostal) will not be stupefied by the claim.
>> >
>> > Now, we may also challenge the facts of this miracle. Whether it is
>> > actually possible to travel from Ibadan to Lagos as a 200km stretch.
>> This
>> > is fair game. Again, it is legitimate to believe in miracle as I do
>> and

>> > still query and worry about the damage of pentecostalism and its

>> > associated corruptions and inanites to social psyche in Nigeria. This
>> > morning I was discussing with my wife the sort of hardship and risks
>> to
>> > life people go through just to attend Holy Ghost Night Vigil in
>> > Lagos-Ibadan expressway. I thought some aspect of that consciousness
>> is
>> > cultic and ignorant. My wife offered a perspective: subjectivity. She
>> > argued that these 'pitiable' congregants may be happy to go through
>> all
>> > these to experience freedom or release. I agreed. It is like going
>> through
>> > such sufferings to line up in the rain to listen to something as
>> patently
>> > unprofitable as Ludacris songs or to risk one's life to attend a
>> footbal
>> > match like some frenzy English football fans.
>> >
>> > My point is; from some perspective of rational religious faith running

>> > without gas through divine enablement is not fantastic. What such

>> > Pius Adesanmi, Ph.D.
>> > Associate Professor
>> > Director, Project on New African Literatures (PONAL)
>> > Department of English
>> > Carleton University
>> > Ottawa, Canada
>> > K1S 5B6
>> >
>> > Tel: +1 613 520 2600 ext.. 1175
>> >
>> > www.projectponal.com
>> >
>> > --- On Tue, 23/12/08, Gemini wrote:
>> >
>> > From: Gemini
>> > Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: RCCG LEADER, ADEBOYE NAMED
>> AMONG
>> > WORLD'S MOS...
>> > To: USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
>> > Date: Tuesday, 23 December, 2008, 8:41 PM
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Forgive my failure to instantly believe, but if his tank ran dry on a
>> > 'dangerous stretch of highway' near Lagos, in which direction was he

>> > driving for 200 km? Was it 200 km of dangerous highway? Was he going

>> > one can drive 200 kms. on an empty tank.

>> > Bye,
>> >
>> > Ola
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > In a message dated 22/12/2008 2:47:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> > Akan...@aol.com writes:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Seamus Murphy / Getty Images for Newsweek
>> > E. A. Adeboye
>> >
>> > THE GLOBAL ELITE
>> > 49: E. A. Adeboye
>> >
>> > A Pentecostal preacher from Nigeria has made big plans to save your
>> soul.
>> >
>> > By Lisa Miller | NEWSWEEK
>> >
>> > Published Dec 20, 2008
>> > From the magazine issue dated Jan 5, 2009
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >

>> > You may never have heard of E. A. Adeboye, but the pastor of The

>> > prosperity and healing attracts converts without savings accounts or

>> > health insurance. The emphasis on Biblical inerrancy and on rigid
>> social
>> > rules—no drinking, no smoking, no premarital sex—offers structure for
>> > people whose lives have been devastated by addiction or illness. In
>> places
>> > like Africa (and indeed, like Palin's Alaska at the turn of the last
>> > century), Pentecostalism finds fertile ground among adherents of
>> native
>> > religions who already believe the world is alive with spirits.
>> > By Pentecostal standards, Adeboye is mainstream. Formerly a
>> mathematics
>> > instructor at the University of Lagos, he began working at RCCG
>> > translating the previous pastor's sermons from Yoruba to English. He
>> took
>> > over the congregation in 1981. His success, he says, is rooted in his
>> > message. "Pentecostals have such an impact because they talk of the
>> here

>> > and now, not just the by and by, he says. "We pray for the sick, but

[wa...@comcast.net]

Dr. Ojo:

As a sequel, I am culling this from an essay written on January 2008 on Nigeriworld.com

"Only the blind in spirit cannot but draw a conclusion that the flamboyant preachers and churches attracting significant follower-ship in our country today have lost the leverage to be voices of truth and moral redemption. The exemplar-role foisted on them to guide the nation in the urgent task of moral rejuvenation, a sine qua non to politico-economic progress, seems to have been discarded as the nation is mired in incessant criminality, ritualistic horrors and warped political leadership.

Places of worship have lost the fire of truth and are empty shells were Qur'anic and Biblical principles are merely parroted. End of year prophetic utterances whose spiritual source is suspect and which are not followed by vigorous intercessory and pragmatic deliverance sessions are reeled out routinely to deceptively project a sense of godliness and hearing from God. Thus some of these so-called overseers, reverends, pastors, prophets and imams perpetually put the gullible in a state of fear and bondage instead of exhorting spiritual freedom readily available by living a Holy Spirit-filled life.

In short, most religious leaders, rather than wear the breastplate of righteousness, are now akin to cash and carry politicians. They live in the flesh and genuflect to the children of deceit. Gigantic physical structures which appeal more to the externalities of this world are constructed to confirm that many 'lost souls' have been won over. In many cases, the leaders do not query the sources of monies donated to the church or mosque coffers. At least, their comfort and luxuries in this world appear guaranteed. Some even assist in propping political leaders with false hope for the sole purpose of receiving customs waivers and to be seen with the high and mighty. "  Steve Nwabuzor, Nigeriaworld.com......January 2008

 

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Dr. Valentine Ojo" <val...@md.metrocast.net>

> > Some of these members probably do not hav e cars. Thus the 'empty-gas

> > miracle' makes no sense to them and we are expected to hail this
> > 'miracle?'
> >
> > Steve Nwabuzor
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: "Dr. Valentine Ojo"
> >
> >>

> >> Pastor Professor Dr. Sam Amadi
> >> Director, (Research& Programs)
> >> Ken Nnamani Center for Leadership & Development
> >> Abuja, Nigeria
> >>
> >> Sir:
> >>
> >> You wrote that "Just this morning [your] wife reminded [you] to recount
> >> again [your] three heros in life. [You] reminded her that they are:
> >>
> >> (1) Barack Obama - for being the best example of a political leader-

> >> intelligent without being acad emic, smart without being naughty,

> >> more PRAGMATIC than Nigeria's self-ordained 'Juju Pastor s'.

> >>
> >> - Nigeria established a Center for Strategic Studies in Kuru', but the
> >> only strategy she has perfected is how to dismiss a performing police
> >> officer who has just finished his course at Kuru - for daring to try to
> >> fight CORRUPTION that has eaten deep into the body polity of Nigeria and
> >> Nigerians, and has become endemic.
> >>
> >> - Babangida similarly established a 'Center for Democratic Studies'
> >> headed
> >> by Professor Omo Omoruyi. But Nigeria ended up with the two worst
> >> DICTATORSHIPS Nigerians have ever experienced - Babangida and Abacha,
> >> followed by Olusegun Obasanjo's undemocratic democracy!
> >>
> >> - Now we have you, Dr. Sam Amadi, Director (Research & Programs), Center

> >> for Leadership & Development, Abuja, Nigeria, recomme nding the likes of

&g t; >> theories

> >> with evident public service." - Evelyn Joe
> >>
> >> Are we therefore in anyway still surprised at the results of the kinds
> >> of
> >> services the Sam Amadis, the Pastor Adeboyes, et al, have rendered for
> >> Nigeria and Nigerians in the past 40+ years:
> >>
> >> "Subscription to the ideas seems to have promised the subscribers self
> >> enrichment and ruling with impunity, protected by immunity, all secured
> >> by
> >> police and military power concentrated at the center. The outcome is
> >> therefore not surprising, and that includes increasing poverty, ethnic
> >> riots leading to losses in lives and properties, general insecurity all
> >> over the country, decaying infrastructure, schooling without education,

> >> higher and higher rates of unemployment an d unemployability among the

> >> youths, hospitals without heath care, peoples without hope, all
> >> emanating
> >> from governing without accountability."
> >>
> >> This is WHAT your REAL HERO, Pastor Adeboye, has helped entrench in
> >> Nigeria!
> >>
> >> Throwing in Fawehinmi and Obama for good measure was a mere ruse, a
> >> smokescreen, an intellectually dishonest sleight of hand.
> >>
> >> Good job!
> >>
> >> Dr. Valentine Ojo
> >> Tall Timbers, MD
> >>
> >>
> >> "Samuel Amadi" writes:
> >>
> >> > Pius,
> >> >
> >> > Sorry, I have been observing xmas with my family (I couldnt travel
> >> home
> >> > because 'things hard') so I could not respond quickly.

> >&gt ; >

> >> > Belief and unbelief (or disbelief) is a deep state that the
> >> transcience of
> >> > email discourse cannot deal. I am a believer. Pastor Adeboye is my
> >> pastor.
> >> > Just this morning my wife reminded me to recount again my three heros
> >> in
> >> > life. I reminded her that they are (1) Barack Obama- for being the
> >> best
> >> > example of a political leader- intelligent without being academic,
> >> smart
> >> > without being naughty, idealistic without being disoriented from
> >> reality.
> >> > Long before the Obamania, I had chosen Barack as my model of true,
> >> > intelligent, sincere politician with understanding of the province and
> >> > purpose of politics.
> >> >

> >> > (2) Pastor Adeboye- for bei ng an epitome of an honesty and passionate

> >> > believer in God. Adeboye teach me what it means to believe in God:
> >> > Obedience. Let me narrate two encounters with Pastor Adeboye that
> >> > reinforce his holiness.. In 1995, I formed a christian radical group
> >> > committed to social justice and political transformation. We called it
> >> > 'Christian Network for Justice and Community'. Our mission was to make
> >> > 'Christ the Lord of the Polity'. We were more in the mold of prophet
> >> > Isaiah, with a mission to proclaim justice and righteouness to
> >> political
> >> > institutions. We write to leading religious leaders about this
> >> prophetic
> >> > mission. Only Adeboye replied and suggested his deputy to be an
> >> adviser.

> >> > Cardinal Okojie, God bless him, did n ot replied. Achbishop Mbang, then

> >> > CAN President, was totally pissed off with us. 'How dare you dream
> >> that
> >> > God could use you boys to bring a perspective we have not known
> >> before'.
> >> > 'What nonsense, how can Christ be the Lord of
> >> > the Polity'. We also wrote to Pastor Tunde Bakare. We did not recieve
> >> > very encouraging response. One day, we paid Pastor Adeboye visit at
> >> the
> >> > Redemption Camp. Very early in the morning. We were shocked that at
> >> > such early hour he was already hosting dignitaries. I saw the famous
> >> > Chairman of Nigerian Breweries, Ohivere visit for counsel. When
> >> Adeboye
> >> > saw us, he prayed with u a simple prayer. That the network should
> >> reach

> >> > the ends of the world. God s poke clearly to my mind."This is what it

> >> > To trust that the spirit of God will c onvict people not to cheat you.

> >> > This is like Jesus who rebuked his disciples for defending him when he
> >> > was attacked. My father in heaven can protect me. Besides, as long as
> >> I
> >> > do the will of him who sent me, not seeking my own good, I can suffer
> >> no
> >> > loss. Great faith. I dare a charlatan to do this. I dare a less than
> >> > Adeboye to do this. Don't bother to ask, I paid my money and other did
> >> > two. The hollow of a holyman. Ask those who meet Ghandi.
> >> >
> >> > (3) Gani Fawehinmi- for teaching me and modeling integrity in
> >> professional
> >> > and public life. I am proud and blessed to have started my career as a
> >> > lawyer with Gani and to have remained one of his favorite mentees. I

> >> > continue to count him my boss . Anybody can accuse Gani of

> >&g t; >

> >> > signatures? Merry christmas O . Wey my turkey? And where are your

> >> remaining
> >> > 45 and a half signatures? You and I don't seem to disagree here or
> >> have I
> >> > misread you? Looks like you are in agreement with the point I raised
> >> in my
> >> > initial intervention: we need to apprehend this phenomenon at
> >> > post-Cartesian levels since those who are interpellated by the power
> >> of
> >> > such narratives do not subscribe to our own schemes of apprehension.
> >> They
> >> > operate at a level where the rational consists in passing exams
> >> without
> >> > studying - hence night vigil grounds have more customers than
> >> libraries in
> >> > our universities during exam period. Yes, George Bush and Obama would

> >> > certainly have experienced what they both b elieve to be miracles in

> >> their
> >> > lives. But it is a considerable stretch to equate such with the
> >> miracles I
> >> > hear in testimonies on the Lagos-Ibadan express way. Tell me, will
> >> Bush
> >> > and Obama consider a
> >> > few hours of electricity& nbsp; a miracle? Will Bush and Obama
> >> consider
> >> > efficient phone service by Verizon and AT&T a miracle? When they go to
> >> > the gas station and there is gas, do they go - one to his black
> >> church,
> >> > the other to his white church - on sunday morning to scream halleluia?
> >> If
> >> > you listen to what passes for miracles during testimony hour in
> >> > Pentecostal churches across Nigeria, you will give up on that country.

> >> > Even the residents of Conak ry, Freetown, Mogadishu, Harare, and

> >> N'Djamena
> >> > would be shocked to learn that some of the things they take for
> >> granted
> >> > in their daily lives provide grounds for cacophonous declarations of
> >> the
> >> > miraculous in Nigeria. I do not accept your rationalization of God's
> >> > choice of Enoch Adeboye as the recipient of this miracle. Enoch
> >> Adeboye
> >> > is a very wealthy man. He sits atop a mega-Pentecostal denomination.
> >> > Pentecostalism is the second most lucrative business in Nigeria. It is
> >> > second only to corruption. Enoch Adeboye
> >> > does not need that environment-friendly miracle. There are too many
> >> poor
> >> > and needy Nigerians who can't afford gas. Many of his followers chop

> >> > gbese to attend serv ice on sunday. The ability to do 200 kilometres on

> >> > empty would make a lot of difference in the lives of such people.
> >> > Besides, we have no reason to believe that God would elect Enoch
> >> Adeboye
> >> > for any miracles until he has satisfactorily expplained the grossly
> >> > nepotistic and utterly corrupt import waiver he got from his friend,
> >> the
> >> > massively corrupt Olusegun Obasanjo. Or was that also a miracle that
> >> > passeth all understanding?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Pastor Afolayan:
> >> >
> >> > E ku ise Oluwa O. It seems to me that your work is cut out for you in
> >> this
> >> > forum. There are too many pagan souls for you to win: Valentine Ojo,
> >> Obi

> >> > Nwakanma, Pius Adesanmi, Amatorit sero (a contraction of: A o mo oun ti

& gt; >> >

> >> > Perhaps, there is still some good logic to this Adeboye issue that we
> >> have
> >> > not yet apprehended. It is also a matter of belief and disbelief.
> >> >
> >> > Now, if you believe in God (a theist), (2) believe that God is as
> >> > proclaimed in the Bible- personal, and communicative, (3) believe that
> >> > this God has directly dealing with his children in the way a father
> >> > relates to his children (4) believe that this God is omnipresent and
> >> > omnipotent, (5) this God is not some philosopher's abstraction or the
> >> > naturalist's explanation for geological phenomenon- in fact, believe
> >> in
> >> > same kind of God that eminent scientist and philosopher, Blaise
> >> Pascal,

> >> > who at the moment of his conversion shoute d 'Fire, fire, personal God,

> >> > life people go through just to attend Holy G host Night Vigil in

&gt ; >> > Dr Kassim:

> >&gt ; > Department of English

> >> > the f ollowers of this Daddy General Overseer draw from such exutory

> >> > Gene ral Overseer give the testimony of this miracle in his megachurch

> >> on
> >> > the Lagos-Ibadan expressway. Daddy drove for 200 kilometres without
> >> gas.
> >> > Somebody shout amen! That's one week of bliss, happiness, and pure
> >> > nirvana for his followers. Take them out of the opiate happiness of
> >> this
> >> > narrative and what do they have left? Yar'Adua's Nigeria. Personally,
> >> > I'll take Enoch Adeboye's opium. Any time, anyday. Just don't give me
> >> > Yar'Adua's Nigeria. Anything but Yar'Adua's Nigeria. One thing I never
> >> > miss when I'm home is my scholarly-observer presence on the
> >> Lagos-Ibadan
> >> > expressway. I love to attend those churches - Redeem, Mountain of
> >> Fire,

> >> > Christ Embassy etc. If you are a scholar in the Humanities an d you

> >> don't
> >> > attend those churches while in Nigeria, you are missing fantastic
> >> > material. Apart from being a
> >> > student of the rich dict ion of Nigerian pentecostals, I love the part
> >> of
> >> > their service when they give testimonies. That is when you are faced
> >> with
> >> > the tragedy of Nigeria. Everything that is taken for granted in
> >> Cotonou
> >> > and Accra is an occasion for flowery testimonies and shouting
> >> > festivals in these churches: "my son's naming ceremony was
> >> approaching.
> >> > Our generator had broken down and there was no diesel to run it
> >> anyway.
> >> > So we went to Daddy General Overseer and he went with us to the Lord
> >> in

> >> > prayer. For seven days we prayed an d fasted. We came against the

> >> spirit
> >> > of darkness. We came against every contrary spirit. We bound every
> >> power,
> >> > every dominion, every principality in NEPA. And you won't believe
> >> this,
> >> > on D day, NEPA did not take light for the entire 3 hours my son's
> >> naming
> >> > ceremony lasted. Yes, we had electricity from NEPA for the whole three
> >> > hours!! Somebody shout two hundred and a half halleluyahs to my father
> >> in
> >> > heaven!!!" Do we come to
> >> > this testimony with lessons in r eason, progress, rationality, and the
> >> > minimal functions of a state that most Nigerians have forgotten? Or do
> >> we
> >> > respect and engage the three hours of sanity and happiness that Enoch

> >> > Adeboye's alterna tive world has afforded this testimonee in Nigeria's

> >> > stations were empty. Then Go d spoke to him, clearly, and said to keep

> >> > driving. Adeboye drove 200 miles on empty. Could his gas gauge have
> >> been
> >> > broken? No, he insists, God intervened "because of the need … in a
> >> > crisis." Adeboye knows well what some in the West have forgotten: in
> >> > today's world, everyone needs a Daddy.""--Newsweek article
> >> >
> >>
> ________________________________________________________________________________
> >> _
> >> > There goes my plans for a hybrid vehicle such as the Toyota Prius in
> >> 2009.
> >> > No wonder Toyota Inc. is in financial trouble. Who needs a hybrid when
> >> > just by praying
> >> > one can drive 200 kms. on an empty tank.
> >> > Bye,
> >> >
> >> > Ola
> >> >

> &g t;> >

> >> >
> >> > In a message dated 22/12/2008 2:47:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> >> > Akan...@aol.com writes:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Seamus Murphy / Getty Images for Newsweek
> >> > E. A. Adeboye
> >> >
> >> > THE GLOBAL ELITE
> >> > 49: E. A. Adeboye
> >> >
> >> > A Pentecostal preacher from Nigeria has made big plans to save your
> >> soul.
> >> >
> >> > By Lisa Miller | NEWSWEEK
> >> >
> >> > Published Dec 20, 2008
> >> > From the magazine issue dated Jan 5, 2009
> >> >
> >> >

> >> &gt ;

> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > You may never have heard of E. A. Adeboye, but the pastor of The
> >> Redeemed
> >> > Christian Church of God is one of the most successful preachers in the
> >> > world. He boasts that his church has outposts in 110 countries. He has
> >> > 14,000 branches—claiming 5 million members—in his home country of
> >> Nigeria
> >> > alone. There are 360 RCCG churches in Britain, and about the same
> >> number
> >> > in U.S. cities like Chicago, Dallas, and Tallahassee, Fla. Adeboye
> >> says he
> >> > has sent missionaries to China and such Islamic countries as Pakistan
> >> and

> >> > M alaysia. His aspirations are outsize. He wants to save souls, and he

> >> > wants to do so by planting churches the way Starbucks used to build
> >> coffee
> >> > shops: everywhere.
> >> > "In the developing world we say we want churches to be within five
> >> > minutes' walk of every person," he tells NEWSWEEK. "In the developed
> >> > world, we say five minutes of driving." Such a goal may seem
> >> outlandish,
> >> > but Adeboye is a Pentecostal preacher: he believes in miracles. And
> >> > Pentecostalism is the biggest, fastest-growing Christian movement
> >> since
> >> > the Reformation.
> >> > One of the strangest images from the 2008 campaign was the YouTube
> >> clip of
> >> > Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin in church, head bowed, palms turned up toward

> >> &g t; heaven, standing silently as Thomas Muthee, a Pentecostal preacher

> >> from
> >> > Kenya, prayed for her freedom from witchcraft. The clip (and a
> >> NEWSWEEK
> >> > article about it) triggered its own little culture skirmish, with
> >> secular
> >> > observers calling Palin a "wack job" and conservative Christians
> >> > responding "There's nothing wrong with her church!!!" Few commentators
> >> on
> >> > either side noted how normal that scene was to hundreds of millions of
> >> > Christians around the globe..
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > The world now has about 600 million Pentecostals, the largest group of
> >> > Christians after Roman Catholics. In Asia, the number of Pentecostals
> >> has

> >> > grown from about 10 million to 166 million sinc e 1970, according to

> >> the
> >> > Center for the Study of Global Christianity at Gordon-Conwell
> >> Theological
> >> > Seminary. In Latin America, Pentecostals have expanded from 13 million
> >> to
> >> > 151 million; in North America, from 19 million to 77 million; and in
> >> > Africa, from 18 million to 156 million. By 2050 most of Africa will be
> >> > Christian, estimates Grant Wacker, professor of Christian history at
> >> Duke
> >> > University—and most of those Christians will be Pentecostals.
> >> > Modern Pentecostalism was born in America in the early 20th century,
> >> when
> >> > a former Methodist minister named Charles Parham began teaching that
> >> > Christians who were filled with the Holy Spirit could, like the
> >> disciples

> >&g t; > of Jesus, speak in tongues. (The sound, for those who have not heard

> >> it,
> >> > is extraordinary: like crooning or keening or jibber jabber.) From the
> >> > start, the faith appealed across ethnic lines to the poor and the
> >> > marginalized. Its lack of denominational structure meant "you didn't
> >> have
> >> > to have a highly trained and educated clergy with a long graduate
> >> > education," says Vinson Synan, dean emeritus of the divinity school at
> >> > Regent University. "Common people [were] pastoring common people."
> >> > Televangelist healers like Oral Roberts helped keep the movement
> >> growing.
> >> > Pentecostals believe that the Holy Spirit is always at work in the
> >> world
> >> > and that certain people possess its gifts: speaking in tongues, the

&g t; >> > healing touch, the power to cast out demons and witches. An emphasis

> >> > His appearance i s straitlaced: he always wears a pinstriped suit, a

[asonzeh ukah]

Dear All:
I have been observing the different interventions by various scholars and
members of this forum on the “empty gas tank miracle” of Adeboye. I wish
to make a couple of interventions myself, having been a “student” of the
Adeboye-RCCG phenomenon for some years now. I am particularly touched by
the intervention of Dr. Sam Amadi who narrated his personal encounter with
Adeboye. Pastor Adeboye, like the RCCG he heads, is not a single
character; he is a composite of many characters, layers, structures, etc.
That he gave out his books to strangers/followers (or fans) without
insisting on collecting cash from them is not sufficient by itself, of
itself, to conclude that Adeboye is selfless and a saint. How many copies
of the book were distributed? What was the price tag? In 2001, Adeboye
sold his biography, Let Someone Shout Hallelujah! by Tony Ojo, his former
secretary, for N5,000.00! On more than one occasion I have heard Adeboye
request total strangers to give his church the sum of ten million naira
each year for ten years. Those willing to give, and they were many on this
night, were instructed to fill out a prepared form from the ushers and
submit. The last time I personally witnessed this sort of “demand” was 16
December 2005 at the Redemption Camp. Their reward would be good health
and wealth for the duration they keep to the pledge! Where does any
Nigerian ready and willing to dole out such an amount each year to a
church work? How much tax does s/he pay to the state? Does the RCCG or
Adeboye scrutinise the source(s) of such cash before accepting it? No, no
questions are asked about the sources of wealth in Nigerian
Pentecostalism! It is God’s “miracle of breakthrough”. This, too, is not
enough to conclude that Adeboye “reaps where he did not sow”. How does the
RCCG utilise the money it recruits from the public? How does the church
demonstrate transparency or accountability to the people who “create” its
wealth?

It is important to put a few things into perspective. Adeboye has evolved
from a puritan preacher of the mid-1970s who campaigned against Obasanjo’s
FESTAC ’77 through to a skilful manager of human resources which ensured
his takeover of the leadership of the RCCG in January (20th) 1981 and the
re-engineering of the church in 1988 by introducing the “Model Parishes”
and incorporating Kenneth Hagin’s teaching on “Prosperity”, to the
explosive stage of the RCCG which we are now experiencing. The RCCG is not
a single church but a conglomerate of churches divided into three,
sometimes incompatible strands (Classical, Model and Unity parishes).
Also, the RCCG is not simply a church; it is much more than that: it is an
economic empire (arguably the richest Pentecostal church in Nigeria –on
its own admission!!), a political powerhouse (it is the only Pentecostal
church the Yar’Adua and Jonathan visited during their brief campaign
before the April 2007 election). The church controls large acres of land
but it does not own any farm; it runs companies from banks to supermarkets
to insurance and mortgage firms. Although it also owns schools (nursery,
primary and secondary) and university, these are NOT social services but
money-generating ventures as they are highly priced institutions.

It may be difficult to understand or reconcile a church which doctrinally
forbids the consumption of alcohol but has pastors and elders and
top-ranking members working in breweries and alcohol producing and
distributing firms and collects tithes from workers in “sin-producing and
sustaining” firms; or a church which preaches holiness but dines with a
character like Chief Matthew Aremu Olusegun Obasanjo, the former Emperor
of Nigeria, without openly rebuking him for his anti-people or corrupt
practices. It may be difficult to understand how and why a church that
forbids alcohol would collect sponsorship funds from an alcohol producing
company for “evangelism”, or from banks that rip off their customers, etc.
At what point does the method and means of “evangelism” obscure or
attenuate the message of “evangelism”? But it can be explained from a
social science point of view. Attempts at explaining the phenomenon of
Adeboye/RCCG does not require a prior belief in or acceptance of the
holiness or sinfulness of Adeboye; it requires contextualising such
practices within the Nigerian/African situation or worldview and the
Pentecostal field generally and seeing how religious doctrines and rituals
are adapted pragmatically to compete effectively and favourably for
social, symbolic, economic and political capital/resource.

Finally, for those who may be interested in pursuing the matter of the
“beatification of Adeboye” (to quote Ebenezer Obadare) further, I am
attaching a flyer of the first book-length treatment of the evolution and
transformation of both the RCCG and its formulator of orientations (and
Dr. Sam Amadi's Role Model), Pastor Enoch Adejare Adeboye, B.Sc (Ife),
M.Sc.; PhD. (Lagos).

Thank you all

Asonzeh Ukah
Religionswissenschaft I
Universität Bayreuth/Germany

[Samuel Amadi]

Dr. Ojo,

I presume that you are a reasonable and sincere person who happens to take positions that sometimes I disagree with. I dont want to associate some of your positings to anything but well-meaning mistakes.

But, I just want to ask whether you ever think other persons can also be well meaning? Is it possible that those you disagree with are ever anything but charlatants and good-for-nothing 'intellectuals'?

I wrote about my admiration for Gani, Obama and Adeboye. You happen to think otherwise of Adeboye. That's fine. But, of course, I am the one making the selection. You have not known me for anything else. And you simple conclude about me in the manner you did? It tells me something: either you are not as intellectual as you claim or you are very vain and quarrelsome, or both.

Nigeria has problems, gave ones at that. I am first to admit. And I think that I am part of the movements crying out against whatever you think is wrong with the country. I think you lost my point. Which is, what Adeboye has failed to do about Nigeria, do it. You can.

I dont get your link between Adeboye and the NIPSS. I know Nigeria has failed and everything in Nigeria and anyone in Nigeria are supposed to be less smart and holy as the Ojo's outside Nigeria. Okay. I will get to google and see what the Ojo's has said or done about the Nigerian condition that those of us inside Nigeria have not done or said.

It is easier to call someone a fool, a crook or a charlatan than to just light the candal. Ojo do something about Nigeria and I will also choose you as a hero.

Sam

Dr. Sam Amadi
Director, (Research& Programs)
Ken Nnamani Center for Leadership & Development
Abuja, Nigeria
234-803-329-9879

--- On Sat, 12/27/08, Dr. Valentine Ojo <val...@md.metrocast.net> wrote:

> From: Dr. Valentine Ojo <val...@md.metrocast.net>

[Samuel Amadi]

Asonzeh Uka,

Thanks for this wonderful posting. The conclusion is simple: there is need to go beyond Adeboye to locate the corruption of the pentecostal movement. Let me refer once more to my conversation with my wife. I caused my wife consternation when I told her that pentecostalism and its emphasis on miracle aggravate corruption, and rent-seeking in Nigeria. I further shocked her that catholics are less inclined to corruption in Nigeria than pentecostals because they are less expectant of a breakthrough. My reason is this: when a pentecostal is expecting a miracle from God to buy a Jeep so that the world will know that his God is alive and he earns N50,000 in the public service, he is less likely to resist an attempt by his superiors to award a phony or inflated contract. The recipient of the contract gives him a thank you gift of N2 million. He rushes off to Cotonuo and buys a used jeep.

this goes beyond the sincerity of the leaders of pentecostal churches. Yes, some of them are very corrupt. But, the point is that the message and structure of pentecostalism, combined with the morally permissive and materialist culture in Nigeria inclines toward all that Azonze wrote about. Our culture is also deviod of accountability. So, a pastor may feel no qualms using the church money to take care of himself, in the same way, the Governor expends 'security votes' without accountability. In the US Sarah Palin faced trouble for adding expenses of his children to the state bill. In Nigeria, you would be adjudged an irreverent person to accuse the governor of misapplication of public funds. There are many more issues.

My views are so radical that you would never believe I am a strong admirer of Adeboye. I know as a christian that everyone is judged according to his own actions. If in a permissive culture like Nigeria you conduct yourself in a prudent and holy manner, you are acceptable to God even though your culture is condemned. As a member of RCCG, I don't think everything we do is right. In fact, I believe that God is going to decontruct pentecostalism and launch a new movement. Of course, the Bible has more evidence in support of the theory of continuous revolution than any other tradition I know of. The pentecostal tradition may have run its course, just as Roman Catholicism did. Pentecostalism is inviting a revolution just as other revolutions against Catholicism ended in counter-revolutions.

I am sure, Martin Luther would have doffed his hat for some monks even as he railed against the Catholic Church. An approval of Adeboye and his pastoral giftings and virtues is not a complete endorsement of pentecostalism in Nigeria. That's why I said that God needs new firebrands to purge pentecostalism, not only in Nigeria, but worldwide.

Sam

Dr. Sam Amadi
Director, (Research& Programs)
Ken Nnamani Center for Leadership & Development
Abuja, Nigeria
234-803-329-9879

--- On Mon, 12/29/08, asonzeh ukah <asonze...@uni-bayreuth.de> wrote:

> From: asonzeh ukah <asonze...@uni-bayreuth.de>
> Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: RCCG LEADER, ADEBOYE NAMED AMONG WORLD'S...
> To: USAAfric...@googlegroups.com

[tunji AZEEZ]

As a rider to Dr Amadi's suggestion to you, Dr Ojo of Tall Timbers, can you tell everyone, as a well- meaning Nigerian what you did to push this country, Nigeria forward before you left the shores of Nigeria for your current 'permanent' abode? What have you done beyond berating other poeple who are genuinely concerned about the Nigerian project? When last did you visit Nigeria for any reason whatsoever? You sound like some arm chair critic of the era of slave trade who saw nothing good about Africa and nothing bad about Europe and America.

Just this morning I was talking to a friend, Dr Harrison Adeniyi and your negative and I-MUST-BE-DIFFERENT-EVEN-IF- ILLOGICAL stance over issues. And our conclusion tallies with Dr Amadi's. So what have you done? What are you doing? What can you do beyond condemnataion of others?

---

From: Samuel Amadi <sama...@yahoo.com>
To: Afric...@yahoogroups.com; Africare-New...@yahoogroups.com; Edo-...@yahoogroups.com; Naijain...@googlegroups.com; Naij...@yahoogroups.com; Ni...@yahoogroups.com; TalkN...@yahoogroups.com; Voice Of Uganda <voice-o...@googlegroups.com>; Yorubas-...@yahoogroups.com; USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Pius Adesanmi <piusad...@yahoo.com>; Adeniran Adeboye <aade...@mac.com>; MsJo...@aol.com
Sent: Monday, 29 December, 2008 13:49:12

[Pius Adesanmi]

Sam di Sam,   Who told you that Roman Catholicism has run its course? Just because its empty cathedrals in Europe have become money-spinning tourist attractions? Just because her priests in the United States are more interested in altar boys than in the Eucharist? It has not run its course. It has merely gone in search of greener pastures in the global South where Mass is pure aesthetics - as opposed to the boring, empty, and somnambulistic ceremony they call Mass in Euro-America. I do agree with you on one point: the catholic church is the principal  sustainer of Pentecostalism in Nigeria. If Catholics disappeared, Nigerian pentecostal preachers/businessmen and their followers would have no one to hate. Hatred of catholics unites them. It is their tonic. No pentecostal sermon is worthy of that name in Nigeria without the ritual of abusing catholics, calling them Mary and idol worshippers. Your typical pentecostal sermon is formulaic: praise and thanks; abuse catholics; talk about the significance of tithe; abuse catholics; pontificate on other forms of sowing and giving; abuse catholics; miracle hour; abuse catholics; testimony hour; abuse catholics; grace and church announcements; abuse catholics; end of service.

Pius Pius Adesanmi, Ph.D. Associate Professor Director, Project on New African Literatures (PONAL) Department of English Carleton University Ottawa, Canada K1S 5B6 Tel: +1 613 520 2600 ext. 1175 www.projectponal.com

--- On Mon, 29/12/08, Samuel Amadi <sama...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[Dr. Valentine Ojo]

"Dr Harrison Adeniyi and your negative and I-MUST-BE-DIFFERENT-EVEN-IF-
ILLOGICAL stance over issues. And our conclusion tallies with Dr Amadi's."

Dr. Tunji Azeez:

I was initially going to respond to Dr. Sam Amadi's apologstism for your
rip-off religious empire - an empire that would appear to specialize in
exploiting the poverty, destitution and hopeless that abounds in today's
Nigeria, and propping up and calling on "God's blessing" on Nigeria's
utterly CORRUPT LEADERSHIP.

After reading your statement above, you totally turned me off!

Are you not the same Tunji Aseez who was also beatificating St. 'Dora
Akunyili'?

When do you ever have the time to teach anything at your Dept of Dramatic
Arts in Ibadan - where you are supposedly employed?

And what exactly are you doing on behalf of your average Nigerian - beside
exploiting them?

Sure, the likes of yourself, Dr. Sam Amadi, and this Dr. Harrison Adeniyi,
are not being DIFFERENT - and you are sounding indeed very LOGICAL, with
your 'miracle cars' that can go 200 miles on empty!

You are truly sounding NIGERIAN-LOGICAL!

Let me now ask you, Tunji Azeez:

Who exactly do you think you are, or that Dr. Sam Amadi is, or your Dr.
Harrison Adeniyi, that I owe any of you an explanation for anything?

You have put your IRRATIONAL and ILLOGICAL BELIEFS and CLAIMS out there,
and I have exercised my GOD-GIVEN RIGHTS to question such RAMPANT
ILLOGICALITY. Period! Case closed!

You are the ones who MUST explain you own ILLOGICAL and IRRATIONAL claims
to the world, of 'miracle cars' that can go 200 miles on empty!

Many of us are not given to running around BOASTING - like the PHARISEES
that even the 'God' you people claim to serve condemns SOUNDLY in your
Holy Bible - I have done this! I jhave done that! I am a saint! I am
saved! I am Secon-in-Command to God! I KNOW more than God what God wants!

Claims often bordering on madness, claims designed to impress and exploit
the masses of suffering Nigerians, while propping up their exploiters and
their oppressors!

You self-opinionated and loud-mouthed Nigerian Christians are worse than
the Biblical Pharisees that Jesus condemned and chased out of the Temple
in Jerusalem!

Most of us normal human beings are content to raise our children in
decency and morality, respect for truth and honesty, the VALUES cherished
by our Yoruba ancetors, and values they inculcated in us, to make out of
us what the Yoruba call OMOOLUWABI - and not religious 419ers and con
artists.

That alone - raising your children in honest, truth and decency - will
find enough blessings in the eyes of any God, that we DO NOT need anymore.

We do not have to support UNMITIGATED CORRUPTION, PEN ROBBERY, CORRUPT
LEADERS, EXPLOITATION of the MASSES, screaming 'Praise the Lord' and
smiling all the way to our banks - on the blood and sweat and
exploitation of the masse - only to turn around and claim hypocritically
that we are doing something for humanity.

When all you people are doing is exploiting the MISERY and DESTITUTION and
HOPELESSNESS of your fellow Nigerians - while living in luxury and utter
decadence!

In short, I owe you no explanation for who I am, what I have done for
Nigeria, or what I am currently doing.

After all, your 'God' should be able to tell you and show you all this
without the need to ask me, since you all claim to know what God knows -
and maybe even more!

I am however able to go to bed every night with a clear conscience that I
have not made exploiting the misery of down-trodden Nigerian my main
source of income.

That's enough to thank my own God for.

All three of you - Tunji Azeez, Dr. Sam Amadi and Dr. Harrison Adeniyi -
you all have a good day. I owe NONE of any EXPLANATIONS for whom I am _ I
am not the one who came on the Internet to BOAST about anything.

You did!

Dr. Valentine Ojo
Tall Timbers, MD

[Obododimma Oha]

Hi Sam,

Think about this: the Catholic Church in Nigeria is gradually being Pentecostalized! 

Obododimma.

--
Obododimma Oha
Senior Lecturer in Stylistics & Semiotics
Dept. of English
University of Ibadan
Nigeria

&

Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies
University of Ibadan

Phone: +234 803 333 1330;
           +234 805 350 6604.

[Obododimma Oha]

Hello Pius,

Pentecostal assemblies in Nigeria have gone beyond mere use of Catholicism to construct their authenticity. Perhaps that anti-Catholic rhetoric is growing out of fashion, given that there is stiff competition among the Pentecostal groups themselves. They have to struggle among themselves for "customers" and in that case, anti-Catholic sentiment will just not do. The rhetoric now focuses on "fake" pastors or "pastors working for Satan." We saw a bit of this in the crisis between the two "Chris-es" not quite long ago. Attention is now being given to fear that some pastors are or may be working for the anti-Christ. 

There is also the issue of internationalization or transnationalizing a given Pentecostal group. This means expanding the religious market. There is a difference between the pastor who sells the Christian Word locally and the pastor who sells overseas and gets paid in dollars. This has nothing to do with fighting or hating Catholicism in Nigeria. 

Perhaps one thing that is making the anti-Catholic rhetoric to become unfashionable is the fact that the Catholic Church (in Nigeria), from my observation, is being Pentecostalized in many ways, just as some Pentecostals also try to reorganize and create chains of authority that would make their churches durable like the Catholic Church. If the Catholic Church is changing its ways -- which is clearly observable now -- then the anti-Catholic rhetoric cannot last and a perceptive pastor should know that and prepare for the future. 

Pentecostals in Nigeria won't be out of business if Catholicism disappears. No, they won't, because they know how to reinvent their rhetoric.  And they have many good things to offer to their members in a society where one needs more than just mere muscles to build confidence and survive.

-- Obododimma.

[Abiodun Fijabi]

Ghana ruling party to boycott presidential revote By FRANCIS KOKUTSE, Associated Press Writer   ACCRA, Ghana – Ghana's ruling party said it would boycott a district's presidential revote Friday that could decide the African country's next leader. Ruling party spokesman Arthur Kennedy said Thursday the situation in the western district of Tain is not conducive to a fair vote because the party's supporters were being intimidated. Voters in the tiny district were unable to vote in a tight runoff Sunday because of problems distributing ballots to polling stations there. The Electoral Commission said the national vote count was so close, Tain could end up deciding the winner. Opposition candidate John Atta Mills leads by about 23,000 ballots out of around 9 million cast, election officials said. There are 53,000 registered voters in Tain — the only of Ghana's 230 constituencies not yet tallied. Electoral officials could not immediately be reached for comment Thursday about whether the revote would go ahead as scheduled. Local television and radio broadcasts gave no indication of possible violence in Tain, where the situation appeared normal. But the ruling party said the situation in Tain was tense. "The election is supposed to be free and fair and as a result, under the current circumstances ... we won't take part in the election," Kennedy told The Associated Press. Ruling party member and deputy information minister Frank Agyekum said "there is too much intimidation of our supporters" in Tain. Partial results from the Election Commission give Atta Mills 50.13 percent so far, and his rival Nana Akufo-Addo 49.87 percent. Tain's ballots would be counted immediately after polls close Friday. Both sides have claimed irregularities in other districts, and those claims may be introduced in court and postpone the announcement of a winner. The Atlanta-based Carter Center called the runoff vote "transparent and relatively peaceful," and the 15-nation Economic Community of West African States commended the way the election was run. Atta Mills and Akufo-Addo, both aged 64 and British-educated lawyers, are vying to succeed President John Kufuor, who must step down after serving two terms. Akufo-Addo campaigned on his party's success in driving the economy in Ghana, the world's No. 2 cocoa producer and the latest African nation to discover oil. Atta Mills, who served as Rawlings' vice president, accused the governing party of corruption.