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Abdul Salau

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Oct 25, 2019, 6:43:46 AM10/25/19
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Archeology of  Yoruba Name 
2831.pdf

Gloria Emeagwali

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Oct 25, 2019, 12:25:52 PM10/25/19
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I see similarities in the Egyptian and Yoruba salutation  systems, binary models, and ethical teachings as reflected in IFA and ancient Egyptian admonitions, but this linguistic comparison is quite unconvincing.

GE



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On Oct 24, 2019, at 9:54 PM, Abdul Salau <salau...@gmail.com> wrote:

Archeology of  Yoruba Name 

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Emeagwali, Gloria (History)

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Oct 25, 2019, 2:49:33 PM10/25/19
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I forgot to ask for more info about Lucas’ interpretation.What is wrong  Pr right about it?

Professor Gloria Emeagwali
Prof. of History/African Studies, CCSU
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OLAYINKA AGBETUYI

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Oct 26, 2019, 1:41:09 PM10/26/19
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  Ladies and Gentlemen:

This has been a superbly exciting foray into the genealogy of the word Yoruba.  It started out as a tacit admission that it was an exonym but due to to the evidence supplied by the exemplary interdisciplinary research of Egyptology  and linguistic scholar professor Abdul Salau that is an endonym generated morphologically by a Yoruba lexeme no longer extant hence its attribution to foteign languages.

From Professor  Salau we now know of the existence of the primal Yara clam in the Yoruba frontier state of Kogi whose Yoruba name is the etymological root of Yoruba from the dawn of Yoruba history in the earliest diasporic movement from Ile-Ife to Oyoro and further afield to Iyara from where Oyo ttaders  wete correcttly referred to by Songhai traders in THEIR OWN name Yoruba.  The testimonies of Chief Afefila and Olobaagun were remarkable in showcasing the individual trade links of Yoruba trade routes to North Africa even before Islam but given the forest nature of Ile-Ife it is doubtful whether the Arab traders came directly to Ile- Ife.  Its more plausible to suggest the raison detre for the foundation of Oyoro was to enable the locus of a trans-Saharan trade easily accessible to Arab and Berber traders and this seem to be the most important reason Oyo eclipsed Ile- Ife in  poltical importance.  So Ife traders wishing to trade on the trans -Saharan routes would find it more pragmatic to go through the Yoruba controlled Oyo than through unknown and hostile territory

It is now clear that the early Yoruba embraced Yoruba as their group name not because they could not resist the imposition of a foreign act of nomination but ptecisely because they were convinced they were the referents of a name that was genuinely theirs in generation (I wish Farooq Kperogi had acknowledged the parts he lifted from Abdul Salau's essay so he is not guilty of the crime of plagiarism which he accused online writers of perpetrating on his own work.)

I also found fascinating the explanatory force off how only Onitsha of all Igbo townships had a king as well as the spread of the Yoruba kingship model to South-South Nigeria: the indefatigable expansionism of Yoruba princes from Edo land eastwards! (And in addition is his established fact that by and large before the Fodio Jihad Hausa land and Yoruba land had enjoyed a largely cordial relationship so as I have always maintained we are ALL a happy family in Nigeria after all is said and done.  I remember my father never referred the war that decimated our flourishing kingdom as ' Ogun Hausa' " Hausa War" but 'Ogun Fulani'.  In other words its the Fulani leading the majority Hausa by the nose in the name of religion to decimate other communities.)

I join GE however in expressing my reservations on Abdul Salau's attempt to link the semanto- orthograpihc roots of Egyptian and Yoruba words and indeed other Nigerian languages and Ancient Egyptian.

The consonantisation of hieroglyphics and the consistency of ' great' worked in several parts but is not consistent enough when it comes to semantics.
eg, 

Wr= Great》 Iwarefa ( Yoruba

Wr   》       Ewuare/Aworo


It began to creak when we get to

Wni 》     Ya (open)

Whi    》 Yi- danu ((overthrow)

Wr     》  Aworoko

Wr     》  Owelle ( Great)


We might follow this pattern and end up asserting  the English word ' write'  (Wr) also came from ancient Egyptian!  Then all languages can be traced to ancient Egyptian ( which is not impossible.  My point is why limit it to Nigerian languages alone?


Let me once again thank everyone who has contributed to this extremely important debate about the provenance of the word 'Yoruba'  which has been an unparalleled intellectually enriching experience.

OAA




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Uyilawa Usuanlele

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Oct 26, 2019, 3:29:28 PM10/26/19
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OAA,
         You are free to hold on to your myth of "the spread of the Yoruba kingship model to South-South Nigeria: the indefatigable expansionism of Yoruba princes from Edo land eastwards!". The Edos know their history that Omonoyan (a.k.a. Oromiyan) was the son of Ekaladeran (a.k.a. Oduduwa) who was a son of Ogiso Owodo, the last Ogiso of Benin and thus Oduduwa as an Edo Prince and not a Yoruba. The Edos know that there was no importation of a Yoruba Kingship model into Edo land. The Edos had a kingship institution of first Ogisos and then Oba (an authentic Edo word and title ) which they had developed over time. 
Uyilawa
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Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - 2831.pdf

  Ladies and Gentlemen:

This has been a superbly exciting foray into the genealogy of the word Yoruba.  It started out as a tacit admission that it was an exonym but due to to the evidence supplied by the exemplary interdisciplinary research of Egyptology  and linguistic scholar professor Abdul Salau that is an endonym generated morphologically by a Yoruba lexeme no longer extant hence its attribution to foteign languages.

From Professor  Salau we now know of the existence of the primal Yara clam in the Yoruba frontier state of Kogi whose Yoruba name is the etymological root of Yoruba from the dawn of Yoruba history in the earliest diasporic movement from Ile-Ife to Oyoro and further afield to Iyara from where Oyo ttaders  wete correcttly referred to by Songhai traders in THEIR OWN name Yoruba.  The testimonies of Chief Afefila and Olobaagun were remarkable in showcasing the individual trade links of Yoruba trade routes to North Africa even before Islam but given the forest nature of Ile-Ife it is doubtful whether the Arab traders came directly to Ile- Ife.  Its more plausible to suggest the raison detre for the foundation of Oyoro was to enable the locus of a trans-Saharan trade easily accessible to Arab and Berber traders and this seem to be the most important reason Oyo eclipsed Ile- Ife in  poltical importance.  So Ife traders wishing to trade on the trans -Saharan routes would find it more pragmatic to go through the Yoruba controlled Oyo than through unknown and hostile territory

It is now clear that the early Yoruba embraced Yoruba as their group name not because they could not resist the imposition of a foreign act of nomination but ptecisely because they were convinced they were the referents of a name that was genuinely theirs in generation (I wish Farooq Kperogi had acknowledged the parts he lifted from Abdul Salau's essay so he is not guilty of the crime of plagiarism which he accused online writers of perpetrating on his own work.)

I also found fascinating the explanatory force off how only Onitsha of all Igbo townships had a king as well as " (And in addition is his established fact that by and large before the Fodio Jihad Hausa land and Yoruba land had enjoyed a largely cordial relationship so as I have always maintained we are ALL a happy family in Nigeria after all is said and done.  I remember my father never referred the war that decimated our flourishing kingdom as ' Ogun Hausa' " Hausa War" but 'Ogun Fulani'.  In other words its the Fulani leading the majority Hausa by the nose in the name of religion to decimate other communities.)

Femi Kolapo

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Oct 26, 2019, 3:29:31 PM10/26/19
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Below is primary source documentation relevant to the issue under discussion. The Oyo provenance of the name Yoruba is very clearly privileged by these excerpts.  The further east away from Oyo influenced or dominated area, the less the self-application of the Yoruba nomenclature, up to the mid-19th c. Hence even by the early 1860s, I find many north-east Yoruba (Eki, Yagba, Bunu), people that feature in my research, tended to distinguish between themselves and the Yoruba.

Also, I find Ahmed Baba's reference significant in the geographical correctness of the west -east positions of the peoles/kingdoms he cited. This indicates to me that he got the information from people who were very conversant with the geographies of Central Sudan, most likely Hausa and Songhai merchants and or itinerant clerics. 

 

 

Question [“Ahmad Baba, Belief, Unbelief, and Slavery in Hausaland”, in Thomas Hodgkins, Nigerian Perspective. A Historical Anthology (Oxford Univ. Press, 1975), p.156

 

Whoever is taken prisoner in a state of unbelief may become someone’s property, whoever he is, as Opposed to those who have become Muslims of their own free will, such as the people; of Kano,- Bornu, Songhay, Katsiina, Kebbi, Gobir and Mali and part of the people of Zaria; they are Muslims and may not be possessed at all. So also most of the Fulani, except that we have heard of a group of them beyond Jenne who are said to be unbelievers, though I do not know whether through apostasy or birth. . .All those who are brought to you from the following groups are unbelievers and remain so to the present day: Mossi, Gurma, Busa, Borgu, Kotokoli, Yoruba, Tabango, and Bobo. .There is nothing against your taking possession of them without further [written in 1614]

 

A link to the full original ms in Arabic: https://www.wdl.org/en/item/9661/view/1/1/

 

 

 

Jamie Lockhart and Paul Lovejoy, Hugh Clapperton into the interior of Africa. Records of the Second Expedition 1825-1827 (Brill, 2005)

 

 

Page. 98

Sunday 4 [Jan. 1825 in Badagry. Adele, being king there at that time.]

Calm & Clear – in the evening we had a visit from the King ~ he is extremely anxious that the English would assist him to take Lagos again – we would not assure him that they would but held out promises – I am daily visited by natives of Haussa – some of whom are Fellatas, Negroes and one Showa Arab from Bornou – they all describe Hio as Yarriba – and Katungwa62 as the Capital – which is only 2 days from the Niger – agreeing with all my Obsns at Sockatoo and Kano

p. 99

The town of [“Badagry” inserted] contains at present abo[ut] five thousand inhabitants – is governed by its own Caboceers [22] – but subject to ad’deley, the ex-King of Lagos – to whom on account of his bravery in difending them against the Dahomies, Alladahs and the people of Lagos united – they some years ago delivered up the sovereignty of their Country ~ He has within a few years raised their character from that of an insignificant people, subject to the inroads of their enemies, the Alladahs, Lagos and Dahomey – to be accepted & feared by the two first and regardless of the friend ship or enmity of Dahomey itself – They are subject to Eyeo or Yarriba as tributaries –

 

109

at 5-30 P.M- the whole of the things having gone on Mr H. [= Houtson] and I took leave of the Cap- gave him an order for a piece of Cloth and one between Siedo & Ali who had been of consbl assistance to us – their men told me we were now in a dep[t] of Hio11 which is called Yarriba by the Arabs and people of Haussa – and that the name of the capital is called Katunga that they are servts of the King and that it is 30 days journey ~ indeed when they were coming in I asked the people who they were [28] they said Yarribanies

 

132

– The Caboceer of this town indeed told us so and that he hoped we should settle the war [49] with the Nyffe people and the Filanis or Felatahs – and the rebellion of the Houssa slaves who have risen against the King of Yourriba -

149

[Wed. Jan. 25th 1825 at Oyo Ile or Katunga, with the King]

– that he had sent once to Dahomey to put Dahomey in order they having deposed Adonozan12 & Made his brother King – that the King of Dahomey was his slave and paid him custom for every vessel that anchored at Whydah [“in old times” at margin]13 – That one brother became King of Yourriba [61] one of Jaboo one of Benin, and one of Ketoo a country lying to the East of Dahomey & Mahee ~ that they were independent Kingdoms the other Kingdoms were tributary to them – they were the only great Kings and that they were descended from the Kings of Tappia or Nyfee in old times14 – The other countrys were tributary to him – that his rebelious slaves traded to Jaboo but that he had lately burnt the large Market where they carried on their barter15 and if he thought proper he could stop the whole of the trade between Jaboo & Lagos – as he had done that of his rebelious slaves

  • Ftnt 14 Alluding to the traditions of common ancestry of the major Yoruba kingdoms and Benin. The reference to descent from the royalty of Nupe perhaps alludes to Sango, one of the early alaafin, whose mother was a Nupe princess.

 

156

[February 1825] after this I asked him if he would allow me to have one of his old men that I might examine him how many Kings there had been here where the people came from – &c – at this last question they all laughed – the King said they [p.157] came from heaven30 – that no one could tell how many Kings there had been in Yourriba or what were their names but himself he would tell me – he gave me 2 pieces of what I think is glass he said it was the same as his beads and they found [it] amongst the rocks ~ we also got a present of one fowel & some Gora nuts

 

 

162

Kingdom of Yourriba

The kingdom of Yourriba extends fom Puka to the South which is within five miles of the sea to Lagos and Whydah in that line – to the North I have not yet ascertained ~ I believe I will not be far out when I say to 10o north Latde ~ it is bounded by Dahomey to the N.W which is a tributary [“lying in dry Tributary” at margin] Kitto and the Mahee country on the North ~ Borgoo on the N.E. ~ the Quarra or Niger to the East on the East bank of which is Tappa or Nyffe ~ Akura41 a province of Benin on the S.E. 5 days journey distant – Jabbo to the South and West – it[s] tributaries are Dahomey, Badagry, Porto Nova, or Alladah, Mahee. – the last doubtfull . . .

 

164

The city of Eyeo (in Houssa language, Katunga), the capital of Yourriba, is situated in latitude 8˚ 59’ north, longitude 6˚ 12’ east. It is built on the sloping side and round the base of a small range of granite hills, which, as it were, forms the citadel of the town

 

 

 

Frederick Schon and Samuel Crowther, Journals of the Rev. James Frederick Schon and Mr. Samuel Crowther, who, with the Sanction of Her Majesty’s Government, Accompanied the Expedition Up The Niger in 1841, in Behalf of The Church Missionary Society (London, 1842)

 

p.138

Fulatah army is at present encamped only about a few days’ journey from Kelebeh, having a great [p.139] number of horses, guns, cutlases, bows, and arrows. They are said to have killed many people ; and carried away many more, as slaves, to Rabba; from whence they are most probably sold to Katanga, finding their way through Yaruba to the sea-coast, as nearly all the Nufi and Kakanda people who were liberated at Sierra Leone were carried that way.

 

 

p.180

Egga is undoubtedly the largest town we have yet seen on the banks of the river : the population may safely be stated at 7000, or 8000. Nufi is the language of the country, though many others are extensively spoken and understood ; as Yaruba, Haussa, Fulatah, Kakanda, Eggarra, Bornou, and several others. Katanga, the capital of Yaruba, is said to be fifteen days journey from Egga. People of many of these nations have joined the Fulatahs, some of their own accord ; others were forced to it ; but many have come to Egga for purposes of trade.

 

p.190

I was informed this morning by one of our Interpreters, that he learned, from one of his countrymen, that Mamajia, Ezu-Issa, and the Chief of Egga, together with the youngest brother of Sumo Sariki, had entered into a conspiracy [191] against Sumo Sariki ; and that it was their intention, next month, to make an attack upon Rabha with a considerable force. The Yaruba people also informed Samuel Crowther of similar attempts being in contemplation, for the attainment of their former independence from the yoke of the Fulatahs.

 

p.198

Aliluh is king of Sokotu, in place of his father Bello. Atibah is king of Yaruba; and Sita, king of Illoring or Illorin — generally marked Allorie on the maps. Sita’s right is disputed by the Yaruba people ; and properly speaking, he can only be called King of the Fulatah party.

 

p.307

In the presence of the Prince, the Chief of Gori, and the owner of the slaves, a new suit of clothes was given to each of the slaves ; when their dirty and threadworn-out clothes were taken from them, and committed to the stream of the Niger, the rapid messenger; by them to proclaim, to as many as might see them, the benevolent intention of the Queen of Great Britain in sending out this Expedition, The poor slaves fell on their knees, in token of gratitude for their liberation. Two of the slaves are Yagba women : the Yagba is a dialect of Yaruba.

 

p.317

Contrary to my expectation, I met here [at Eggan] many Yaruba People who have come from the interior; some only twelve days ago ; and others altogether reside here on purpose to trade. I made inquiry respecting the interior ; when I received the following information. War is still carried on. Katunga, the capital of Yaruba, was deserted after the death of Abiohdung, the king of Yaruba. Atiba, the heir to the throne, removed the seat of government from Katunga to Aggoh, because the former was too near to Illorrin ; while Oluyorle, the commander of the soldiers, or head warrior, took his seat at Kishi, otherwise called Ajanna, in confederacy with Ibariba, a people on the border of Yaruba, nearly speaking the same Ian

[318] guage. Tliey have since had three battles; one at Igbodo, about seven years ago ; and another at Oshogbo, about three years ago ; in both of which Illorrin, headed by Sitah, a Fulatah, was defeated with great loss. They have stripped Illorrin of all its dependencies. The last battle took place at Wodikura, when Atiba made sure of complete victory over Sitah, the head of the Fulatahs; but Atiba lost the battle at this time: his confederate Eledueh, the king of Ibariba, and his brother Oluewu, being killed, the battle was broken up. They are still harassing the people of Illorrin, catching them wherever they are met with. Last year they were reduced to great extremity, being closely confined by Atiba ; in consequence of which they suffered much from scarcity of food. Many of the people of Illorrin, on account of this, found their way here or to Rabba, they being Mahomedans, on the side of the Fulatahs. The principal towns in the country of Yaruba are the following: — Aggoh, Kishi, Ibaddang, Issehin, Shakki, Igboho, Ijaye, Iwo, Eddeh, Oshogbo, Rlah, Awaye, and Wahsimi, belonging to Atiba; and Illorrin, belonging to the Fulatahs. Abbeh Okuta belongs to the Egba dialect, having Shodekkeh for its king.

 

p. 322

I sent the Interpreter to call them to me, as I should see and know who they were, before I sent them on board with him. He was absent about an hour and a half, when I set out in quest of him. I found him in the court-yard of Obadanwaki, a Yaruba man, the head of the war-men of this place. He was dressed in a turban, as he is now called a Fulatah. This man speaks Haussa and Nufi with great fluency; and appears to understand the Fulatah Language but very little, if at all.

 

p. 367

I lately learned, that those of the Aku Nation in Sierra Leone have commenced making a collection of money, with a view to offer it to the Church Missionary Society, to enable them to send a Missionary to Badagry— a place in which they feel much interested, it being the inlet to their own, that is, the Yaruba Country. In one village alone the sum contributed amounted, a few days after the subscription was opened, to fifteen pounds.

 

 

/Femi Kolapo
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Gloria Emeagwali

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With due respect, Sir, You went much further than I did. I stated that this particular linguistic reference was unconvincing.
I cannot claim that all linguistic comparisons are to be declared irrelevant. Some convincing linguistic comparisons have been made with Wolof and ancient Egyptian and the door is open , as far as I  am  concerned, for more convincing possibilities, if they exist. 

GE

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Salimonu Kadiri

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Oct 26, 2019, 7:21:38 PM10/26/19
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​We must read history as it is and not as we wish it to be. You cannot rewrite history. Oranmiyan was a grandson and not the son of Oduduwa. There was no king in Igodomidogo but Ogiso before the arrival of Oranmiyan. The  name of the wife of Oranmiyan was Erinmwinde, the daughter of Enogie of Egor. With Erinmwinde, Oranmiyan fathered Eweka 1, who became Omo Oba ni ile ibinu in 1200 AD. There was no Edoland until the reign of Ewuare the great (1440-1473. As the Yoruba people say, IYÌLÉWÀ OSÙOLÁLÉ.
S.Kadiri


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OLAYINKA AGBETUYI

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Oct 26, 2019, 8:09:48 PM10/26/19
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That is correct. What I said is similar. This particular comparison is incorrect because the comparative base is too wide and went across too many linguistic families which are unified under Ancient Egyptian without adequate justifying reasons.

With such latitude we might include as many languages outside African languages trace and justify divergences with adequate evidence.  A more rigorous, demanding yet satisfying final outcome.  I believe its doable because I firmly believe that many world languages (not just African) developed from Egyptian hieroglyphs.  The step by step articulation is what is yet unclear to me but I know one day these will be tracked.

Professor Salau is on the right track. Its just that there is yet a lot more work to be done.

OAA



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From: Gloria Emeagwali <gloria.e...@gmail.com>
Date: 26/10/2019 21:40 (GMT+00:00)
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - 2831.pdf

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With due respect, Sir, You went much further than I did. I stated that this particular linguistic reference was unconvincing.
I cannot claim that all linguistic comparisons are to be declared irrelevant. Some convincing linguistic comparisons have been made with Wolof and ancient Egyptian and the door is open , as far as I  am  concerned, for more convincing possibilities, if they exist. 

GE

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On Oct 26, 2019, at 10:35 AM, OLAYINKA AGBETUYI <yagb...@hotmail.com> wrote:

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OLAYINKA AGBETUYI

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Oct 26, 2019, 8:47:52 PM10/26/19
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Uyi.

Why was Ekaladeran also known as Oduduwa by the Edo and why did the Yoruba not call him by his second name?

Why do you call what I said a myth since everyone on this forum know I am not responsible for the narrative?

Why do you so stubbornly refuse to yield to the force of documents heaped on you which you demanded hoping they would not be found?

What really do you have against the Yoruba and why would you rather make yourself a laughing stock given your high education and why are you in SELF denial as part of the larger Yoruba nation even though we do not deny you?

OAA



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OAA,
         You are free to hold on to your myth of "the spread of the Yoruba kingship model to South-South Nigeria: the indefatigable expansionism of Yoruba princes from Edo land eastwards!". The Edos know their history that Omonoyan (a.k.a. Oromiyan) was the son of Ekaladeran (a.k.a. Oduduwa) who was a son of Ogiso Owodo, the last Ogiso of Benin and thus Oduduwa as an Edo Prince and not a Yoruba. The Edos know that there was no importation of a Yoruba Kingship model into Edo land. The Edos had a kingship institution of first Ogisos and then Oba (an authentic Edo word and title ) which they had developed over time. 
Uyilawa
From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of OLAYINKA AGBETUYI <yagb...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2019 10:35 AM

Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - 2831.pdf

  Ladies and Gentlemen:

This has been a superbly exciting foray into the genealogy of the word Yoruba.  It started out as a tacit admission that it was an exonym but due to to the evidence supplied by the exemplary interdisciplinary research of Egyptology  and linguistic scholar professor Abdul Salau that is an endonym generated morphologically by a Yoruba lexeme no longer extant hence its attribution to foteign languages.

From Professor  Salau we now know of the existence of the primal Yara clam in the Yoruba frontier state of Kogi whose Yoruba name is the etymological root of Yoruba from the dawn of Yoruba history in the earliest diasporic movement from Ile-Ife to Oyoro and further afield to Iyara from where Oyo ttaders  wete correcttly referred to by Songhai traders in THEIR OWN name Yoruba.  The testimonies of Chief Afefila and Olobaagun were remarkable in showcasing the individual trade links of Yoruba trade routes to North Africa even before Islam but given the forest nature of Ile-Ife it is doubtful whether the Arab traders came directly to Ile- Ife.  Its more plausible to suggest the raison detre for the foundation of Oyoro was to enable the locus of a trans-Saharan trade easily accessible to Arab and Berber traders and this seem to be the most important reason Oyo eclipsed Ile- Ife in  poltical importance.  So Ife traders wishing to trade on the trans -Saharan routes would find it more pragmatic to go through the Yoruba controlled Oyo than through unknown and hostile territory

It is now clear that the early Yoruba embraced Yoruba as their group name not because they could not resist the imposition of a foreign act of nomination but ptecisely because they were convinced they were the referents of a name that was genuinely theirs in generation (I wish Farooq Kperogi had acknowledged the parts he lifted from Abdul Salau's essay so he is not guilty of the crime of plagiarism which he accused online writers of perpetrating on his own work.)

I also found fascinating the explanatory force off how only Onitsha of all Igbo townships had a king as well as " (And in addition is his established fact that by and large before the Fodio Jihad Hausa land and Yoruba land had enjoyed a largely cordial relationship so as I have always maintained we are ALL a happy family in Nigeria after all is said and done.  I remember my father never referred the war that decimated our flourishing kingdom as ' Ogun Hausa' " Hausa War" but 'Ogun Fulani'.  In other words its the Fulani leading the majority Hausa by the nose in the name of religion to decimate other communities.)

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Uyilawa Usuanlele

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Oct 27, 2019, 6:38:42 AM10/27/19
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OAA,
         Firstly, i have nothing against the Yoruba. I only told history as the Edo know and experienced it and i dont know if not accepting your version is synonymous with hatred? The Edo are not and have never been part of the larger  Yoruba nation, whatever that means. As i stated you are free to hold on to your Yoruba version or myth. If Edo history makes me a  "laughing stock", no worries, It is no skin off my flesh.  
Uyi
  
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2019 8:12 PM

Okechukwu Ukaga

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Oct 27, 2019, 6:38:42 AM10/27/19
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"I also found fascinating the explanatory force off how only Onitsha of all Igbo townships had a king as well as " -OAA

Wrong! What about others (like Eze Nri that existed centuries before the Obi of Onicha.)

Also, using the same standard for Igbo as we seem to be using here for Yoruba, it is pertinent to note that there are indigenous Igbo people in almost all of Rivers State, most of Delta (Anioma area), part of Kogi and and Benue. - OU


On Oct 26, 2019 2:29 PM, "Uyilawa Usuanlele" <big...@hotmail.com> wrote:
OAA,
         You are free to hold on to your myth of "the spread of the Yoruba kingship model to South-South Nigeria: the indefatigable expansionism of Yoruba princes from Edo land eastwards!". The Edos know their history that Omonoyan (a.k.a. Oromiyan) was the son of Ekaladeran (a.k.a. Oduduwa) who was a son of Ogiso Owodo, the last Ogiso of Benin and thus Oduduwa as an Edo Prince and not a Yoruba. The Edos know that there was no importation of a Yoruba Kingship model into Edo land. The Edos had a kingship institution of first Ogisos and then Oba (an authentic Edo word and title ) which they had developed over time. 
Uyilawa

Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2019 10:35 AM
GE

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OLAYINKA AGBETUYI

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Oct 27, 2019, 9:06:28 AM10/27/19
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Uyi;

The Edo are part of the largerYoruba nation precisely because part of the Edo called Itshekiri admit they are.  The Benin are part of that nation also because many Benin that I personally know do not subscribe to your version of history.

I know that because of geographical contiguity if a DNA test is done on me it cannot but reveal I share genetic traits with the Edo so contrary of your claim of ethnic supremacy against some of us only one person seem to lay claim to pristine nativity here;  that person is yourself who sees a unified Edo subjectivity that is insulated from the dawn of time from Yoruba subjectivity.  

Yet you paradoxically assert that there have been links between the Yoruba and Edo areas of influence since the dawn of antiquity but it only proscribed the sin of miscegenation!  So you may be conversely conversing at the moment with a member of the larger Edo nation who does not believe in miscegenation ( it goes both ways!)

My brother, do I at least take it that you are now converted in view of the abundance of evidence presented to the fact that the Yoruba (that pesky word!) have referred to themselves and have been referred to by others by that self same word for almost a thousand years before your cut off date of the 20th C?

If that is the case would you be magnanimous enough to show your appreciation to those on this forum who have put so much to this cross fertilization of minds and we would leave the rest as they were?

Salimonu Kadiri

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Oct 27, 2019, 10:55:35 AM10/27/19
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​The Edo are not and have never been part of the larger Yoruba nation, whatever that means - Uyilawa Usuanlele, October 27, year 2019.

​When Nigeria had three Regions, todays Edo belonged to the Western Region until 1963, when the NPC/NCNC Federal controlled government severed the non-Yoruba speaking of Western Region in 1963 and called it Midwest Region. The capital of the new Region was Benin city. Prior to 1963, there was House of Chiefs in the capital of Western Region, Ibadan, and all the Oba of the region were obliged to attend its meetings. The House of Chiefs members deliberated mostly on Regional House of Assembly and government proposals as it affected the people. In the Regional House of Chiefs, Oba Akenzua II who reigned between 1933 and 1978 in Benin Kingdom, was third in rank to Ooni of Ife, Sir Adesoji Aderemi, and Alaafin of Oyo. Ooni of Ife used to preside over the meetings of Western House of Chiefs and in his absence Alaafin presided, while Akenzua presided in the absence of both Ooni and Alaafin. Members of the House of Chiefs were remunerated by the government according to their ranks and the is no record that Akenzua II rejected his rank or emolument from the government of Western Region up till 1963. Midwest State became Bendel State in 1976 and renamed Edo State after Asaba, Agbor, Sapele and Warri, all formerly part of Western Region prior to 1963, became Delta State.

​I don't think you hate Yoruba people, rather you have developed inferiority complex for past history as it affected Benin and therefore engage yourself in refuting historical facts. You wrote, "The Edos Know their history that Omonoyan (a.k.a. Oromiyan) was the son of Ekaladeran (a.k.a Oduduwa) who was a son of Ogiso Owodo, the last Ogiso of Benin and thus Oduduwa was an Edo Prince and not a Yoruba." Let me just make a minor, but important observation. There was never THE LAST OGISO OF BENIN BUT THE LAST OGISO OF IGODOMIIGODO as there was no BENIN until the arrival of the Portuguese. However, If I have to humour you and restore your presumed and soiled ethnic pride, I will agree with you that the Edo are not, and have never been, part of the larger Yoruba nation. On the contrary, the Yoruba are, and have been, part of the LARGER BENIN KINGDOM by virtue of the roles played by ORANMIYAN in making his son, Eweka, the King of Ile-Ibinu (1200-1240 AD).
S. Kadiri    


Skickat: den 27 oktober 2019 02:27
Till: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Ämne: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - 2831.pdf
 

Uyilawa Usuanlele

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Oct 27, 2019, 12:32:23 PM10/27/19
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OOA,

          The Itsekiri are not Edoid linguistically but Yoruboid. That the Itsekiri share a cultural affinity with the Edo and yet self-identifying with the Yoruba nation (for political survival) does not make the Edo part of the Yoruba Nation. You can continue to console yourself with the claim that some of your Edo friends do not subscribe to the version of Edo history. Your friends' non-subscription still does not make the Edo part of the Yoruba Nation. Unfortunately, the Egbe Omo Oduduwa ideology which was used to forge the Yoruba nation identity did not fly with the Edo who resisted and struggled against it with their Otu-Edo, Benin-Delta Peoples Party and Owegbe in alliance with NCNC culminating in the creation of Midwest Region in 1963. The present Odua Peoples’ Congress (OPC) ideology (which includes the Edo in their Oduduwa Republic Map) is also not selling with the Edo. The Edos are not part of the Yoruba nation. We know who we are and will remain who we are, no matter whose Ox is gored. You are free to call me whatever names catches your fancy- nativist, inferiority complex sufferer, tribalist, laughing stock and so on, I will bear all with pride and dignity as an Edo person (who does not subscribe or aspire to Yoruba nationality or identity).

Uyilawa


Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2019 7:16 AM

OLAYINKA AGBETUYI

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Oct 27, 2019, 12:32:24 PM10/27/19
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Alagba Kadiri:

This is another myth to Uyilawa.  It never happened. Stop telling myths, stop telling myths.  Its not fair!  Government was not fair!

OAA.



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


-------- Original message --------
From: Salimonu Kadiri <ogunl...@hotmail.com>
Date: 27/10/2019 15:07 (GMT+00:00)
Subject: Sv: USA Africa Dialogue Series - 2831.pdf

Boxbe This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (ogunl...@hotmail.com) Add cleanup rule | More info
​The Edo are not and have never been part of the larger Yoruba nation, whatever that means - Uyilawa Usuanlele, October 27, year 2019.

​When Nigeria had three Regions, todays Edo belonged to the Western Region until 1963, when the NPC/NCNC Federal controlled government severed the non-Yoruba speaking of Western Region in 1963 and called it Midwest Region. The capital of the new Region was Benin city. Prior to 1963, there was House of Chiefs in the capital of Western Region, Ibadan, and all the Oba of the region were obliged to attend its meetings. The House of Chiefs members deliberated mostly on Regional House of Assembly and government proposals as it affected the people. In the Regional House of Chiefs, Oba Akenzua II who reigned between 1933 and 1978 in Benin Kingdom, was third in rank to Ooni of Ife, Sir Adesoji Aderemi, and Alaafin of Oyo. Ooni of Ife used to preside over the meetings of Western House of Chiefs and in his absence Alaafin presided, while Akenzua presided in the absence of both Ooni and Alaafin. Members of the House of Chiefs were remunerated by the government according to their ranks and the is no record that Akenzua II rejected his rank or emolument from the government of Western Region up till 1963. Midwest State became Bendel State in 1976 and renamed Edo State after Asaba, Agbor, Sapele and Warri, all formerly part of Western Region prior to 1963, became Delta State.

​I don't think you hate Yoruba people, rather you have developed inferiority complex for past history as it affected Benin and therefore engage yourself in refuting historical facts. You wrote, "The Edos Know their history that Omonoyan (a.k.a. Oromiyan) was the son of Ekaladeran (a.k.a Oduduwa) who was a son of Ogiso Owodo, the last Ogiso of Benin and thus Oduduwa was an Edo Prince and not a Yoruba." Let me just make a minor, but important observation. There was never THE LAST OGISO OF BENIN BUT THE LAST OGISO OF IGODOMIIGODO as there was no BENIN until the arrival of the Portuguese. However, If I have to humour you and restore your presumed and soiled ethnic pride, I will agree with you that the Edo are not, and have never been, part of the larger Yoruba nation. On the contrary, the Yoruba are, and have been, part of the LARGER BENIN KINGDOM by virtue of the roles played by ORANMIYAN in making his son, Eweka, the King of Ile-Ibinu (1200-1240 AD).
S. Kadiri    
Ämne: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - 2831.pdf
 

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