Palesrael: The Single State Solution
cornelius...@gmail.com
Biko,
Just to refresh your memory:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Scramble-for-Africa-1880-1913.png
Yesterday, Netanyahu said “We are at war and will win” - at war with little Gaza , the Gaza Strip , an open-air prison ,size, 365 km2 (141 square miles ) with a population of 2.2 million people boxed in and still besieged..
Consider Africa’s smallest country The Gambia is 11,300 km² ( 4,400 square miles)
Right now the Israeli Knesset has declared full war on HAMAS
Take note that the 2.2 million citizens of the Gaza Strip are not all HAMAS Fighters…
“…“Deliberately targeting civilians, carrying out disproportionate attacks, and indiscriminate attacks which kill or injure civilians are war crimes. Israel has a horrific track record of committing war crimes with impunity in previous wars on Gaza. Palestinian armed groups from Gaza, must refrain from targeting civilians and using indiscriminate weapons, as they have done in the past, and most intensively in this event, acts amounting to war crimes.”
“The root causes of these repeated cycles of violence must be addressed as a matter of urgency. This requires upholding international law and ending Israel’s 16-year-long illegal blockade on Gaza, and all other aspects of Israel’s system of apartheid imposed on all Palestinians. The Israeli government must refrain from inciting violence and tensions in the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem, especially around religious sites. Amnesty International calls on the international community to urgently intervene to protect civilians and prevent further suffering.”
Please read the full statement : t.ly/Z3h_X
Your proposal dated November 19, 2012, reads like an interesting rehash of Muammar al-Gaddafi and his son Saif al-Islam Gaddafi’s grand 2003 idea of a proposed one-state solution to be known as Isratin. We must give credit to Muammar al-Gaddafi inviting Israel to join the Arab League.
The introductory quote of Edward Said ( “Israeli Jews and Palestinians are irrevocably intertwined demographically...Palestinians and Israelis interact, through antipathy and hostility, but physically they're in the same place...this is something that can't be changed by pulling people back to separate boundaries or separate states." seems to be in the same spirit as Shlomo Sand and his book,” The Invention of the Jewish People'' which attracted a lot of flak, not least of all when he arrived in Stockholm to present it. I was there that evening and could give you some first-person witness testimony, mostly from my diary, less so from memory, but I do recall that I didn’t like him very much and back then my impression was that he was playing too much to the Palestinian gallery; his buk no doubt became a bestseller in those quarters - the Arab Street, and as proof of all that he was saying therein, all he had was the sort of proof you mostly arrive at without any solid evidence…
So that was the Gaddafis in 2003, and Biko Agozino in 2012. Since then right up to the very latest developments on the battle ground, I feel that when the dust of battle finally settles from the ongoing imbroglio, the Israelis under whatever government, unity or otherwise, will be pushing with their Arab neighbours for The Jordan Option
Briefly, I do not for a moment buy into all the blood tears being shed on the Israeli and international media, lamenting Israeli Intelligence which is said to be second to one, allegedly caught napping this time around. As Israel critic Gideon Levy said (and I don't like him very much either) but I believe that he was nearer to the truth when he also expressed some grave doubts, saying that after all Israel has Intelligence about what's happening in Gaza 24hrs a day, and that Intelligence gathering apparatus ( and informants) can tell you the colour of each and every Gaza citizens underwear…let alone, the stockpiling of rockets etc etc….
In any one-state solution, if that state should be democratic, how would the essential Jewish nature of the state co-exist with inalienable Palestinian equal rights? That is the moot question, and we haven’t got to borders ,defence and the Justice system which is about to be overhauled by Netanyahu’s right -wing government proposing 124 ( one hundred and twenty four) legislative acts which are all100% undemocratic…
Of the essence : Consistent with the divide and rule policy, the CIA assisted in the creation of HAMAS to counteract the dominant Palestinian power, FATAH…. HAMAS won the elections in Gaza (there haven't been any elections in the Palestinian territories since 2007)and everyone including Mahmud Abbas knows that HAMAS has and can challenge the popularity of Fatah in both Gaza and the West Bank and AND that given the tenets of the revised Hamas Charter of 2017 - especially Article11 of that Charter, it would seem that HAMAS is no pussy with whom Israel can conclude any successful peace negotiations - whereas after routing HAMAS in the next three weeks , the Israelis probably believe that they will be able to deal with a more toothless FATAH - and perhaps the Jordan option….
biko...@yahoo.com
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cornelius...@gmail.com
Professor Biko Agozino,
That is what you proposed way back in 2012, and things have changed a lot since then. As your map shows, Israel has grabbed a lot of land, and since 2012 has been grabbing a lot more land. Israel is still on a land-grabbing spree, the settlers and settlements have been expanding, the long-term intention perhaps Eretz Yisrael (from the Euphrates River to the Sea) dreaming of the fulfilment of Genesis 15:5 when the Jewish people will be as numerous as the stars that shine in the heavens, and will therefore be able to occupy all that land.
and as we can all see, the Palestinian territories of the West Bank have shrunk considerably - take a look at area C which Israel administers.
In the comments section of your article someone observes “You are correct, the Israel vs Palestine debate is over land/property not religion.” To that I’d just curtly respond that like a Zionist parrot even the weakest atheist settler from Ukraine, Brooklyn, France, Poland, Belarus will yell at Mahmud Abbas,” GOD gave us the land !!!” And secondly - as Helle Klein once told me (and this was at the synagogue library) “Judaism is not just religion, it’s PEOPLEHOOD.”!
Much water and bad blood has flowed under the bridge since 2012. Your Federalism idea could be sound and maybe the children of Abraham, the descendants of Ishmael and Yitzhak would like to give it a shot. No need to worry about what the religious fanatics and mainstream lunatics who firmly believe in " God gave us the land" are going to say about your proposal of them living side by side in harmony, peace and tranquillity with the Muslim and Christian Palestinians with David’s City Yerushalayim //Jerusalem//al-Quds as their joint capital. I wonder what The Temple Institute people think of your Federalism idea. I would also like to know how Rabbi David Bar-Hayim ( the head of Machon Shilo Institute) would respond to your Federalism proposal. I’m sure that for him your proposal is a non-starter. Ditto, I suppose Rabbi Yosef Mizrachi and probably too, even the more moderate Rabbi Avraham Greenbaum (not to mention the ultra Zionist rabbis and ultra -Zionist politicians in Brer Netanyahu's coalition…
Would the Palestinians abandon UN Resolution 242 and 338 which demands that the chess pieces go back to the 1967 status quo ) when Gaza was being administered by Egypt and the so called West Bank where you find the al Aqsa Mosque was being administered by Jordan ,so at the climax of the Six-Day War ,the triumphant shout from the Israeli soldiers was, “The Temple Mount is now in our hands!”
My theory is that in this case, this supremely important piece of holy real estate - the heart of the Jewish nation, that has been conquered by war, is not going to be surrendered by negotiation.
With the one state solution in mind, take note of the demographic nightmare and the existential threat that would be posed by the much feared Palestinian birth rate which would surpass the records being set presently by the orthodox rabbis who are currently populating the Holy Land faster than rabbits and that's why they usually hold the Ministry of Construction and Housing portfolio
Can non Jews buy property in Israel?
Updates The Guardian // World Newspapers
Last question : And "the people" , who are the people that are supposed to be voting in the kind of referendum that you have in mind?
Harrow, Kenneth
Sent: Sunday, October 8, 2023 3:59:07 PM
To: cornelius...@gmail.com <cornelius...@gmail.com>
Cc: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Palesrael: The Single State Solution
Victor Okafor
I salute you, Professor Biko Agozino for your courageous, thoughtful, and conscientious one-state proposition for a permanent resolution of the age-old Israeli-Palestinian bloodletting against the backdrop of the extant cacophony of mainstream media's and Western ruling classes’ lop-sided rhetoric that is weighted in favor of symptoms and almost completely oblivious of root causes. It’s a proposition that affirms the humanity of both sides.
If there is a sewage leakage in a home, it cannot be stopped by merely whipping away the surface spew; you must painstakingly look for, locate the source of the leakage, and plug or fix it. This is a lesson derived from the fundamental logic that underlies life itself. Divine logic is the foundation of the universe, the foundation of life. Logic makes airplanes fly; logic makes automobiles ply the roads; logic makes instantaneous short and long-distance communication possible across space and time; etc. Our human problems basically arise from deviations from divine logic, deviations from the Maatic Order.
While the Western mainstream media and Western politicians are busy hand wringing and trying to be politically-out-correct one another over the festering sore in the Middle-East (a festering sore that has the potential to destabilize the global order as we know it), as articulated, your proposal is a human-centered and empathic attempt to help two warring sides to try to come to the table of reason and try to work out a lasting and peaceful resolution to an ancient dispute. Yours affirms the humanity of both Jews and Palestinians.
Your proposition reminds me of an apt philosophical clarion call from Professor Achille Mbembe: “If we don’t rehabilitate reason, we will not be able to fix our broken world.” Once again, I salute you, Professor Agozino!
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cornelius...@gmail.com
As things are today, your ideal federalism proposal that should go to a referendum is a non starter, dead on arrival.
Here's an update on a possible long-term destination: “Greater Israel”
Oluwatoyin Adepoju
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/usaafricadialogue/IA1PR12MB82872A8269666EEC78C5FC3ADACEA%40IA1PR12MB8287.namprd12.prod.outlook.com.
Victor Okafor
I salute you, Professor Biko Agozino for your courageous, thoughtful, and conscientious one-state proposition for a permanent resolution of the age-old Israeli-Palestinian bloodletting against the backdrop of the extant cacophony of mainstream media's and Western ruling classes’ lop-sided rhetoric that is weighted in favor of symptoms and almost completely oblivious of root causes. It’s a proposition that affirms the humanity of both sides. No human life is inferior or superior to another.
If there is a sewage leakage in a home, it cannot be stopped by merely whipping away the surface spew; you must painstakingly look for, locate the source of the leakage, and plug or fix it. This is a lesson derived from the fundamental logic that underlies life itself. Divine logic is the foundation of the universe, the foundation of life. Logic makes airplanes fly; logic makes automobiles ply the roads; logic makes instantaneous short and long-distance communication possible across space and time; etc. Our human problems basically arise from deviations from divine logic, deviations from the Maatic Order.
While the Western mainstream media and Western politicians are busy hand wringing and trying to politically out-correct one another over the festering sore in the Middle-East (a festering sore that has the potential to destabilize the global order as we know it), as articulated, your proposal is a human-centered and empathic attempt to help two warring sides to try to come to the table of reason and try to work out a lasting and peaceful resolution to an ancient dispute. Yours affirms the humanity of both Jews and Palestinians.
Your proposition reminds me of an apt philosophical clarion call from Professor Achille Mbembe: “If we don’t rehabilitate reason, we will not be able to fix our broken world.”
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/usaafricadialogue/8a191f12-3cdb-4bca-96c4-784927d40586n%40googlegroups.com.
Biko Agozino
Harrow, Kenneth
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2023 6:55:17 AM
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
cornelius...@gmail.com
Biko,
"I don't understand your optimism.," Ben-Gurion declared. "Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, it's true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-Semitism the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that? They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance. So it's simple: we have to stay strong and maintain a powerful army. Our whole policy is there. Otherwise the Arabs will wipe us out".
https://www.palestineremembered.com/Articles/General/Story8923.html
Where we’re coming from - your words,” our capacity for compassion towards the sufferings of others.”
Bob’s words :
“And verily, verily, I'm saying unto thee, I
Inite oneself and love Imanity
'Cause puss and dog they get together
What's wrong with loving one another
Puss and dog they get together
What's wrong with you my brother”
There’s no gainsaying your compassion, logic, human reasoning and reasonableness etc
Understandably, your Federalism push cannot be entirely divorced from the Biafra experience.
After the latest battle is concluded (if ever) I doubt that either side will be enthusiastic about living together as one nation
If you're really serious about your 2012 proposal ( remember I said 2012 now, not 419) you could start communicating with Putin who is now saying that it’s high time for an Independent State of Palestine (two-state solution
Michael Afolayan
biko...@yahoo.com
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cornelius...@gmail.com
Professor Agozino,
The Middle East is so uniquely The Middle East , permanently with the missing peace and the missing piece .We hear some of the jargon being recycled by Zelensky ( talking about “every inch” The Pals say “every inch” , foaming at the mouth Mr Mount Zion says, “every inch”, he pins his eschatological hope on it , as does Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah.
Suzie also says “ every inch “ and here you can hear Lou Reed’s backup vocalist pleading, screeching, “Let me have all of it,not just some of it, ALL,ALL,ALL of IT!”
You touched a very important nerve there - WATER - the oxygen of the future.
With climate change not sparing the more than 80 percent of the middle east which is desert, water is a negotiable/non-negotiable most essential commodity
The Quran says that we came from water the human body is 60% water and it's true that we cannot do without H2O (and for some thirsty people, it has to be H20 + some haram ogogoro, even if in the final end, to waterless dust does the body return…
In his day, the always philosophical Shimon Peres used to philosophise about water as the oxygen of forthcoming peace negotiations, in that thick Polish accent of his
The vacillating water levels of the Kinneret is always a matter of national concern, just as the ups and downs of the interest rates in the United States…
The Children of Israel ( Jacob was renamed Israel - hence “The Children of Israel”) for quite a while now on some very special occasions ( the holiest day in the calendar etc) it has been the tradition of the great grandchildren of Israel to be saying “ Next Year in Jerusalem !” whilst on the other side of the fence ( and you know that “good fences make good neighbours” ) - the original reason for the that separation barrier in Jerusalem -to keep out terrorists ( not quite the same reason for the late Berlin Wall or The Western Wall ),well, on the other side of the ideological divide, the anti-Zionist camp ,Chairman Arafat used to say, ”Next year in Jerusalem, and those who don’t like it can go and drink the waters of the Dead Sea.!”
In case you don’t remember the origin of the Dead Sea, here’s part of the story:
“An American Jew and an Israeli met in Paris in the Cafe de la
Paix. The American asked, “ Do you know the United States?”
“ I've never been there ,” answered the Israeli.
“Have you ever heard of the Empire State Building?”
“ Of course!”
The American said proudly, “My Father built that! And have you heard
of the Brooklyn Bridge? My father built that too. And who do you think
built the White House in Washington? My father!”
This was too much for the Israeli , who said, “ And you I'm sure, have
heard of the Dead Sea?”
“But of course! What about it?”
“Well, let me tell you – my father killed it!”
Re - Biafra.
With all the horrifying news about starvation as a weapon of war against the hapless, defenceless innocents of Gaza , a looming war crime and a matter of very great concern, inevitably the many heated discussions we have had on this forum about Biafra and the alleged starvation as a weapon of war ,come to mind.
Ray of hope: If I remember correctly, in Warrior ( Ariel Sharon's Autobiography) or possibly somewhere else, there’s a scene where Israeli soldiers give water to Egyptian soldiers who were dying of thirst….some of the compassion you were talking about