“Outrightly,” “Faithfuls,” “Graduands”: Q and A on Nigerian English and Learner Errors
Farooq A. Kperogi
Twitter:@farooqkperogi
Over the past few days, I was dragged into many online arguments about the grammatical correctness of certain popular Nigerian English expressions. My responses to these conversations form the core of today’s column.
Is the word “outrightly” an illegitimate word even though some online dictionaries have an entry for it? Why don’t native English speakers use “faithfuls” as the plural form of “faithful” even when some online dictionaries have an entry for it? How about “graduand”? Is that a real word?
“Outrightly” is bad grammar
The use of "outrightly" as an adverb is nonstandard. In standard usage "outright" is both an adverb and an adjective.
In a December 31, 2009 article titled "Adverbial and Adjectival Abuse in Nigerian English," I wrote: “Chief among these are the words ‘outrightly’ and ‘downrightly.’ They are probably not strictly Nigerian inventions, but native speakers of the English language don’t say ‘downrightly’ or ‘outrightly.’ These adverbs don’t take the ‘ly’ form. So where a Nigerian would say ‘Yar’adua’s handlers are outrightly lying to us,’ a Standard English speaker would say ‘Yar’adua’s handlers are lying to us outright.’ Where Nigerian speakers would say ‘he is downrightly hypocritical,’ a Standard English speaker would say ‘he is downright hypocritical.’ So, although these words are adverbs of manner, they don’t usually admit of the ‘ly’ suffix.”
People who were told “outrightly” wasn’t Standard English pointed out that online dictionaries, including Oxforddictionaries.com, have an entry for the word. There are two things wrong with this. First, the printed editions of all Oxford dictionaries don’t recognize “outrightly” as a word.
Second, lexicography (i.e., writing of dictionaries) isn't always synonymous with grammar; dictionaries merely notate the lexical components of a language and don't necessarily make judgments on usage and correctness. With the rise and popularity of web-based corpus linguistics, if enough people use a word it will have an entry in most online dictionaries. But the fact that a word has an entry in an online dictionary doesn't necessarily mean it's "correct."
You sometimes have to go beyond the dictionary to figure out if the word is standard, nonstandard, regional, formal, informal, colloquial, slang, uneducated, etc. (OK, I admit that learners' dictionaries like the Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary and others have usage notes on some words and expressions. Incidentally, even the online edition of the Oxford Learner's Dictionary doesn’t recognize "outrightly” as a legitimate English word).
The use of "outrightly" as an adverb started life as learner's error. It arose from the notion that the adverbial form of the word “right” is “rightly.” This morphological logic was extended to all words that have or end with “right.” Thus, “outrightly” and “downrightly” were born. The reasoning is perfectly sensible and logical. It’s just that grammar, especially English grammar, isn’t always sensible and logical.
The superfluous addition of the “ly” morpheme to “outright” and “downright” has emerged as one of the features of non-native English usage. You won't find an educated native English speaker write or say "outrightly." The Corpus of Global Web-Based English shows that "outrightly" appears disproportionately in Nigerian English.
It’s OK to say or write "outrightly" when you communicate with Nigerians. But if you are communicating with educated native English speakers and don’t want to stand out, avoid it. Always remember that “outright” is both an adjective (used immediately before a noun, as in, “That’s an outright lie”) and an adverb of manner (used after a verb in a sentence, as in, “Lai Mohammed lied outright.”)
“Faithful” Has No Plural
People also got into an argument about the expression “Muslim faithfuls.” Someone pointed out that it was solecistic and another person defended its correctness by pointing out that an online dictionary has an entry for it.
Well, I once wrote the following in response to a reader's question challenging me that "faithfuls" is a legitimate plural of “faithful” because an online dictionary says so:
"The standard plural for 'faithful' when it is used as a noun to mean staunch followers of or believers in a faith, ideology, or creed, is 'the faithful,' not 'faithfuls.' It should be 'millions of the Christian faithful,' 'millions of the Muslim faithful,' 'thousands of the party faithful at the PDP convention,' etc. I have never heard any educated native English speaker say 'faithfuls.' In fact, there appears a wiggly red underline beneath the word when you type it on Microsoft Word, indicating that it’s not recognized as an English word. Plus, the world’s most prestigious English dictionary—the Oxford English Dictionary—says the plural of 'faithful' is 'the faithful.' It does not list 'faithfuls' as an alternative plural form for 'faithful.'
"I am aware that the online edition of Merriam-Webster Dictionary says that when 'faithful' is used outside religious contexts, it can be pluralized to 'faithfuls.' It gives the expression 'party faithfuls' as an example. That means while it does not recognize the pluralization of 'faithful' in reference to religions as legitimate, it tolerates its pluralization elsewhere.
"However, when I searched the British National Corpus, the definitive record of contemporary spoken and written British English, I found only two records for 'party faithfuls,' but found thousands of records for 'the party faithful.' The Corpus of Contemporary American English— which has been described as 'the first large, genre-balanced corpus of any language, which has been designed and constructed from the ground up as a "monitor corpus", and which can be used to accurately track and study recent changes in the language'— did not return a single record for 'party faithfuls,' but had thousands of matches for “the party faithful.'
"What this tells me is that 'faithfuls' as a plural of 'faithful' is rare or non-standard in British English and completely absent in American English. I would never advise you to use 'faithfuls' in careful writing or in polite company. It would make you sound illiterate." (This was first published in my February 24, 2013 column titled, “Q and A on Nigerian and American English Expressions—and More”
There are many more examples of popular words in Nigerian and other non-native English varieties that have entries in online dictionaries but that are never used by educated native English speakers. “Academician” is another example.
In a December 6, 2015 column titled, “Academician”or “Academic”? Q and A on Nigerian English Errors and Usage,” I wrote:
“So what is the difference between an ‘academician’ and an ‘academic’? Well, an ‘academic’ is someone who teaches or conducts research in a higher educational institution, typically in a university. In British and Nigerian English, academics are also called ‘lecturers.’ In American English, they are called ‘professors.’
“An ‘academician,’ on the other hand, is a person who works with or is honored with membership into an academy, that is, an institution devoted to the study and advancement of a specialized area of learning such as the arts, sciences, literature, medicine, music, engineering, etc. Examples of academies are the Nigerian Academy of Letters, the Royal Academy of Arts, the Royal Academy of Music, the Royal Academy of Engineering, the Royal Swedish Academy of Letters, History and Antiquities, the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine, etc.
“Not all academics are academicians and not all academicians are academics. In other words, you can teach in a university, polytechnic, college of education, etc. and never be made a member of an academy, and you can become a member of an academy without ever being a teacher or a researcher at a higher educational institution. Note that while most academicians are also academics, most academics are never academicians.
“A little note on pragmatics is in order here. Although many [online] dictionaries have entries that say ‘academician’ and ‘academic’ can be synonymous, this isn’t really the case in actual usage, at least among educated native English speakers. It is considered illiterate usage in British and American English to call higher education teachers and researchers ‘academicians’; they are properly called ‘academics.’ Many dictionaries merely capture the entire range of a word’s usage without discriminating socially prestigious usage from uneducated or archaic usage.”
Is “Graduand” a Nigerianism?
No, it’s not. Someone wondered why Nigerian newspapers use the word “graduand” even though the word doesn’t have an entry in many print dictionaries. Well, it’s because it’s a Briticism. That means it is unique to British English and the heirs of its linguistic heritage, such as Nigerian English. It means someone who hasn't graduated but is about to graduate. It is entirely unknown in American English.
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Ibukunolu A Babajide
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Obododimma Oha
I am with you. You are doing a great job, building a tradition in the
study of English in the Nigerian world. (Did I write "Nigerian world?"
Ha! Ha! Ha! ). Seriously, you are building a great scholarly tradition
and I admire you. Keep doing it; don't be deterred.
Regards.
Obododimma.
On 10/23/16, Farooq A. Kperogi <farooq...@gmail.com> wrote:
> My "Politics of Grammar" column in today's Daily Trust on Sunday
>
>
> *By Farooq A. Kperogi, Ph.D.*
>
> *Twitter:@farooqkperogi <https://twitter.com/farooqkperogi>*
>
> Over the past few days, I was dragged into many online arguments about the
> grammatical correctness of certain popular Nigerian English expressions. My
> responses to these conversations form the core of today’s column.
>
>
> Is the word “outrightly” an illegitimate word even though some online
> dictionaries have an entry for it? Why don’t native English speakers use
> “faithfuls” as the plural form of “faithful” even when some online
> dictionaries have an entry for it? How about “graduand”? Is that a real
> word?
>
>
>
> *“Outrightly” is bad grammar*
> The use of "outrightly" as an adverb is nonstandard. In standard usage
> "outright" is both an adverb and an adjective.
>
>
> In a December 31, 2009 article titled "Adverbial and Adjectival Abuse in
> Nigerian English,"
> a legitimate English word).
>
>
> The use of "outrightly" as an adverb started life as learner's error. It
> arose from the notion that the adverbial form of the word “right” is
> “rightly.” This morphological logic was extended to all words that have or
> end with “right.” Thus, “outrightly” and “downrightly” were born. The
> reasoning is perfectly sensible and logical. It’s just that grammar,
> especially English grammar, isn’t always sensible and logical.
>
>
> The superfluous addition of the “ly” morpheme to “outright” and
> “downright” has emerged as one of the features of non-native English usage.
> You won't find an educated native English speaker write or say
> "outrightly." The Corpus of Global Web-Based English
>
>
> It’s OK to say or write "outrightly" when you communicate with Nigerians.
> But if you are communicating with educated native English speakers and
> don’t want to stand out, avoid it. Always remember that “outright” is both
> an adjective (used immediately before a noun, as in, “That’s an outright
> lie”) and an adverb of manner (used after a verb in a sentence, as in, “Lai
> Mohammed lied outright.”)
>
>
>
> There are many more examples of popular words in Nigerian and other
> non-native English varieties that have entries in online dictionaries but
> that are never used by educated native English speakers. “Academician” is
> another example.
>
>
> In a December 6, 2015 column titled, “Academician”or “Academic”? Q and A on
> Nigerian English Errors and Usage,”
> No, it’s not. Someone wondered why Nigerian newspapers use the word
> “graduand” even though the word doesn’t have an entry in many print
> dictionaries. Well, it’s because it’s a Briticism. That means it is unique
> to British English and the heirs of its linguistic heritage, such as
> Nigerian English. It means someone who hasn't graduated but is about to
> graduate. It is entirely unknown in American English.
>
>
> *Politics of Grammar Column
> <http://www.farooqkperogi.com/p/politics-of-grammar-column.html>*
>
> Farooq A. Kperogi, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor
> Journalism & Emerging Media
> School of Communication & Media
> Social Science Building
> Room 5092 MD 2207
> 402 Bartow Avenue
> Kennesaw State University
> Kennesaw, Georgia, USA 30144
> Cell: (+1) 404-573-9697
> Personal website: www.farooqkperogi.com
> Twitter: @farooqkperog <https://twitter.com/#%21/farooqkperogi>
> Author of *Glocal English: The Changing Face and Forms of Nigerian English
> in a Global World
> <http://www.amazon.com/Glocal-English-Changing-Linguistics-Semiotics/dp/1433129264/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1436569864&sr=1-1>*
> "The nice thing about pessimism is that you are constantly being either
> proven right or pleasantly surprised." G. F. Will
>
> Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
> Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
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B.A.,First Class Honours (English & Literary Studies);
M.A., Ph.D. (English Language);
M.Sc. (Legal, Criminological & Security Psychology);
Professor of Cultural Semiotics & Stylistics,
Department of English,
University of Ibadan.
Fellow,
Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies,
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O O
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Kenneth Harrow
Dear ibukunolu,
Farooq doesn’t need anyone to defend him, but for the fun of exchanging ideas, let me chime in a bit here. First, there is a big difference between accepting changes in language usage (like “bad”—not so much in your ex., but in people now saying, my bad—a more recent neologism), and accepting ungrammatical or incorrect usages. For instance, between you and I. it is used now widely; I still mark my students papers and regard the object of the preposition as me, not i.
That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t use an incorrect usage; but it is flat out wrong to state there is no such thing as an incorrect usage. Don’t you agree with that?
The reason I am writing is to dispute your example of how English changes versus French. The academie francaise has nothing to do with usage. No one pays attention to them. And since English is much more dominant in world usage, it enters into French considerably every year. People use English if they want. For instance, people mostly say “mail” instead of “courriel” for email. There are better examples where the English is only used, not the formal French word. That is very very common. And most people couldn’t care less.
On the other hand, little comes into English from French. As for English in Nigeria and india etc, it is a regional variant, and they too grow or shrink as people keep on speaking, which is a kind of miracle to me. I still don’t understand why every time I speak the language changes.
ken
Kenneth Harrow
Dept of English and Film Studies
--
Ibukunolu A Babajide
IBK,First, this is hypocritical ranting. You have had reason in the past to send me an email or two requesting to know the correct usage of words and expressions. If you don't care about grammar or "gate-keeping," why did you bother to ask me to tell you if certain expressions were correct or not? Is it because your settled certainties have been exploded b y my latest offering that you're getting ticked off?I have pointed out several times here that English evolves naturally, that no authority regulates its use, etc. Several people have said that before me. So you are not saying anything new. But it's also true that English grammar isn't anarchic. Like other languages, its grammar and usage traditions are elaborately rule-governed. There are usage norms that stand people out, that serve as social markers. From the way you write and speak English people can tell your level of education, your social status, your regional identity, your professional affiliation, the depth of your immersion in the language, etc. This is true of all languages. Everyone has a choice to come across as educated, regional, slangy, informal, uneducated, colloquial, etc.I am not a gate-keeper of the English language. I am not even an expert of the language. I, too, make my own mistakes. I am only an enthusiastic student of the language. All I do is analyze usage patterns, call attention to the consensus of experts on usage norms, highlight dialectal peculiarities, answer questions from readers, etc. And there is nothing revolutionary or newfangled about that. Several other people do it. Is that too much for you to understand?If reading my grammar writing heightens your insecurities and hurts your fragile ego, you know you can save yourself this needless torment by not reading me. There is a delete button for a reason. You can even block my email address so my posts don't come into your inbox at all. It's that simple.Take care,Farooq Kperogi
Farooq A. Kperogi, Ph.D.Associate ProfessorJournalism & Emerging Media
School of Communication & MediaSocial Science BuildingRoom 5092 MD 2207402 Bartow Avenue
Kennesaw State UniversityKennesaw, Georgia, USA 30144
Cell: (+1) 404-573-9697
Personal website: www.farooqkperogi.comTwitter: @farooqkperogAuthor of Glocal English: The Changing Face and Forms of Nigerian English in a Global World
"The nice thing about pessimism is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised." G. F. Will
Ayo Obe
Ayo
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onyima blessing
Lecturer
Department of Sociology & Anthropology
Nnamdi Azikiwe University, Awka
Nigeria
+2348065014542
PhD Candidate
Department of Archaeology & Anthropology
University of Ibadan
Nigeria
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Ibukunolu A Babajide
M Buba
Malami
Prof Malami Buba
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Osakue Omoera
Dr. Osakue S. Omoera
Salimonu Kadiri
English is the official language in Nigeria but it is not a national language. To all Nigerians, English is a secondary language to our mother tongues - Hausa, Igbo, Yoruba, Ijaw, Ibibio etc. No matter how good a Nigerian speaks and writes English it can
never be as perfect as a born English native of England. The chance of learning the language perfectly in Nigeria varies and is limited, depending on which institution of learning one is lucky to attend. However, I am yet to meet any Caucasian who can read,
write and speak any of Nigeria's ethnic languages perfectly as many Nigerians do in English language. Since we often equate fluency in spoken and written English language to being highly educated in Nigeria, Farooq Kperogi wrote,
"From the way you write and speak English, people can tell your level of education, your social status, your regional identity, your professional affiliation, the depth of your immersion in the language."
A native of England with primary school education can write and speak better English than the best Nigerian Professor of English language because as native of England he/she is born with the language. Can we say the level of education of a German or a French
Engineer is low because of lack of fluency in written and spoken English? Will the social status of a French, German, Spanish and Italian engineers in Nigeria be low because of their poor oral and written English language?
The purpose of language is to communicate effectively with the people of the nation in which that language is spoken. A national broadcast by the President of Nigeria is normally done in English but since absolute majority of Nigerians do not speak or understand English, the broadcast used to be translated into various indigenous languages. Wole Soyinka is a highly educated Nigerian with a very high social status. Once, he referred tacitly to the then First Lady, Patience Jonathan, as a hippopotamus that could be taken out of the swamp but the swamp could not be taken out of her, the hippopotamus. When the attention of Mrs. Jonathan was drawn to Professor Wole Soyinka's sarcastic reference to her as a hippopotamus, she said, "That Professor Soyinka sef, why den de call am Nobelle Loletta? Him be woman? E de play sheater, why e no de for Nollywood?" With her low education, Mrs Jonathan could communicate more effectively than Soyinka, with many Nigerians by speaking in the language most Nigerians understand and, in fact, the social status of Mrs. Patience Jonathan in Nigeria was not lower than that of the learned Professor.
S.Kadiri
Skickat: den 25 oktober 2016 14:23
Till: Farooq A. Kperogi
Kopia: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Ämne: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - “Outrightly,” “Faithfuls,” “Graduands”: Q and A on Nigerian English and Learner Errors
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Ibukunolu. A. Babajide
English for me is an expensively acquired tool. It has served me well and when I start drawing my pension my investment in the colonial language would have been worth my trouble.
For the Farooqs of this our queer world they are free to allow the language define their entire existence. While I pity them, I see in them the ultimate victory of a language in colonizing and enslaving minds.
This is what Nguigi wa Thiongo told foretold to Chinua Achebe in the 60s. Now the Farooqs of Africa take the colonial project on far better than the colonialists could ever dream to do.
I thank you for your intervention.
Cheers.
IBK
Sent from my Windows Phone
From: 'M Buba' via USA Africa Dialogue Series
Sent: 25/10/2016 23:59
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - “Outrightly,” “Faithfuls,” “Graduands”: Q and A on Nigerian English and Learner Errors
Malami
Prof Malami Buba
Dear Ayo Obe,I suspect the man woke up on the wrong side of the bed. He may have pent up anger issues too. He came out swingeing and lashing out with his Samurai sword. Like my new found DSTv Yoruba Channel 157 folks will say "ki la gbe? Ki lo ju?"Have a pleasant day.You have not said much on the on-going raid on the Judges! The Judiciary brought ant infested firewood into its hallowed Chambers and are now grumbling of the infestation by lizards.Now they will be more circumspect before they demand and at least the honest Joes on the Bench and at the Bar can heave a sigh of relief. My only sadness is that all these happened after by father who died on 8 November 2014 after 54 years at the Nigerian Bar, missed the fireworks!He was so angry at corrupt Judges. He must be smiling in his grave now!Cheers and have a great day.
IBK
On 25 October 2016 at 16:54, Ayo Obe <ayo.m...@gmail.com> wrote:
Lol IBK, as for me, I found it difficult to continue reading after your "Like we all do, ..." 😝
AyoI invite you to follow me on Twitter @naijama
Ibukunolu A Babajide
English is the official language in Nigeria but it is not a national language. To all Nigerians, English is a secondary language to our mother tongues - Hausa, Igbo, Yoruba, Ijaw, Ibibio etc. No matter how good a Nigerian speaks and writes English it can never be as perfect as a born English native of England. The chance of learning the language perfectly in Nigeria varies and is limited, depending on which institution of learning one is lucky to attend. However, I am yet to meet any Caucasian who can read, write and speak any of Nigeria's ethnic languages perfectly as many Nigerians do in English language. Since we often equate fluency in spoken and written English language to being highly educated in Nigeria, Farooq Kperogi wrote, "From the way you write and speak English, people can tell your level of education, your social status, your regional identity, your professional affiliation, the depth of your immersion in the language."
A native of England with primary school education can write and speak better English than the best Nigerian Professor of English language because as native of England he/she is born with the language. Can we say the level of education of a German or a French Engineer is low because of lack of fluency in written and spoken English? Will the social status of a French, German, Spanish and Italian engineers in Nigeria be low because of their poor oral and written English language?
The purpose of language is to communicate effectively with the people of the nation in which that language is spoken. A national broadcast by the President of Nigeria is normally done in English but since absolute majority of Nigerians do not speak or understand English, the broadcast used to be translated into various indigenous languages. Wole Soyinka is a highly educated Nigerian with a very high social status. Once, he referred tacitly to the then First Lady, Patience Jonathan, as a hippopotamus that could be taken out of the swamp but the swamp could not be taken out of her, the hippopotamus. When the attention of Mrs. Jonathan was drawn to Professor Wole Soyinka's sarcastic reference to her as a hippopotamus, she said, "That Professor Soyinka sef, why den de call am Nobelle Loletta? Him be woman? E de play sheater, why e no de for Nollywood?" With her low education, Mrs Jonathan could communicate more effectively than Soyinka, with many Nigerians by speaking in the language most Nigerians understand and, in fact, the social status of Mrs. Patience Jonathan in Nigeria was not lower than that of the learned Professor.
S.Kadiri
Från: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> för Ibukunolu A Babajide <ibk...@gmail.com>
Skickat: den 25 oktober 2016 14:23
Till: Farooq A. Kperogi
Ayo Obe
Ayo
Olayinka Agbetuyi
Salimonu Kadiri
English na language, na native of England de speak am. A no be native of England o!! The late Babs Fafunwa, the erstwhile Minister of Education, wrote in *Learning and Teaching in our Mother Tongue* thus, "The colonial education robbed the Nigerian child of his inventiveness, creativity and originality. Since the Nigerian child is forced to think in English, other than in Hausa, Igbo, Yoruba and other local languages, the child finds it hard to assimilate instructions easily and build manual dexterity effectively." Babs Fafunwa was correct if we think about what kind of confusion will arise in the head of a Nigerian child who is being taught in a Physics lesson with the example of icy road to demonstrate slippery on frictionless surface when there is no snow season in Nigeria and the temperature throughout the whole year in the country is beyond melting point for snow or ice. To the Nigerian child, banana peels or okra on the ground would have been the best example of frictionless and slippery surface, instead of icy road.
To be able to write and speak English fluently cannot be equated to being educated. Some years ago, a light-headed woozy Bachelor of Arts in English who was a senior official in one of the Nigerian Embassy in Europe bought a new car. After dinner on that fateful evening, he excused himself from the wife and children to go to his car garage. With the door and windows of the garage closed, he key-started the car on neutral gear to listen to the radio while reading the car manual. He died of inhaled smoke from the exhaust pipe of the car. The policemen that came to the scene concluded that the ambassador's official had committed suicide because they assumed that the educated official of the embassy in question knew the consequence of inhaling carbon mono-oxide when he key-started the vehicle in an enclosure. Unfortunately, his knowledge of English language did not extend to the effect of inhalation of carbon mono-oxide which non-English speaking farmers in Nigerian villages deploy daily to drive out and kill animals by infusing concentration of smoke into their holes.
Education that cannot give us what we want is useless. We have a lot of good English speaking scientists, Engineers and Medical Doctors in Nigeria and despite the natural resources at their disposals, Nigeria remains poor and underdeveloped economically and industrially. Yet, our ancestors carried out experiments to know that the tortoise never suffers head ache, the snail never suffers liver pain and fish never suffers fever inside the river. With that said, a Nigerian who asserts that English is her/his first language is like asserting that butterflies are birds. For me I know what is ÌKÁMÌDÙ in Yoruba language but I don't know the English name for it!!
S.Kadiri
Skickat: den 26 oktober 2016 12:16
Till: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Ämne: Re: SV: USA Africa Dialogue Series - “Outrightly,” “Faithfuls,” “Graduands”: Q and A on Nigerian English and Learner Errors
Olayinka Agbetuyi
Kenneth Harrow
I shouldn’t take the time for this, but quickly>
It is ridiculous to think people can’t acquire fluency in ANY other language than their own native language.
Aren’t we all children of the word?
Some of us are too old or inept to become truly fluent. But probably most, if not all, if we apply ourselves to it, and live in the environment where the new language is spoken, with effort can not only acquire fluency over time, but native fluency.
The language I learned as a child changed; I don’t speak lots of what these young people speak. But I know absolutely that most African scholars I know are as native in their fluency of the English I speak as anyone else.
The arguments being made must be by those seeking to protect ownership over their own languages. But forget it. We can, and do, learn the language of others, as do all the children, babies, of the world.
Am I wrong? Are there scholars, living in the states now for some years, who have a different opinion?
Lastly, some people lose their accent; others (like me) somehow can’t. but accented speech is as amenable to native fluency as anything else. And who, in the end, doesn’t have some kind of regional accent to their speech anyway?
ken
Kenneth Harrow
Dept of English and Film Studies
http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/
--
Olayinka Agbetuyi
Kenneth Harrow
Thanks olayinka.
Let’s put it another way. How many Africans speak more than one language? Do none of them speak 2 or even three with native fluency?
[answer: lots!]
Olayinka Agbetuyi
Emeagwali, Gloria (History)
So why should we listen to you, professor?
Many of the Nobel Laureates for English Literature were not native - born as you well know.
Besides, colloquial English is not on the same level with formal English, in terms of syntax and vocabulary
and even tonality .
The non-native Professor of English you speak about, would have spent about a dozen post- primary years,
learning the intricacies of the language, and getting exposed to a corpus of literary works. He or she would have
contributed to this corpus, in some cases, and spent sleepless nights unraveling the mysteries of Linguistics.
Meanwhile, your primary school student from Liverpool or London would be learning how to spell his/her name
and craft a decent paragraph or two. How can you compare them both?
Gloria Emeagwali's Documentaries on
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 11:17 AM
Ibukunolu A Babajide
Dear Salimonu and Farooq,
Ikamidu is the giant black ant. Salimonu Kadiri you again nail the coffin of those who want to be more Catholic than the Pope and the misguided Farooq Kperogis of Africa who equate felicity in English language with being educated. Their minds are colonised.
Farooq Kperogis speaking and writing in English that you self delusional categorise in class and social boxes does not equate to being educated. At best it is proof of complete mind colonisation.
Now let me educate you a little and offer you material for introspection because no matter the heights of achievement without the virtue of humility it is wasted:
Nothing in life is worth fighting for. Your best clothes is someone's rag,your account balance is someone's donation at a function, your girl friend/boy friend or fiance/fiancee' is someone's Ex. Every single prostitute you see in a hotel or on the street at night was at some point in time a virgin. So what is the squabble all about? Life is too small to feel bigger or better than anybody. We're all naked to death says Steve Jobs. Nothing can save us from it. I hate to see people who Brag about wealth, beauty, intelligence, level of education, fame and material possessions. There's nothing you've achieved in life that no one else has never gotten. The office you occupy today was occupied someone yesterday and will be occupied by another person tomorrow. You don't know whom that person might be. There's only one thing that is worth bragging which is "LIVE IN GOD ALMIGHTY". SO BE GOOD TO YOUR FELLOW MAN AND ALWAYS MAKE FRIENDS. Always remember that the people you trampled upon on your way up a ladder will be the same set of people you're likely to pass on your way down, so cause no problem for others or make not life unbearable for other by virtue of your position, because if you do, they'll become your very problem one day. Finally, even banana stems will one day become dried leaves. Pls don't be selfish , pass on to friends as we're all in one way or the other guilty.
If one day you feel like crying, call me. I don't promise to make you laugh but I can cry with you.
If one day you want to run away don't be afraid to call me. I promise to be there running beside you.
But if one day you call me and there's no answer, come to me, perhaps I need you.
* * ,, * *
* I care for *
*. You *
"* ,, *"
One day, one of us will not be here and then it'll be too late to say I care. Tears may flow, but I will be long gone. So, forward to everyone you care for- I just did!
Send to your best friends no matter how often you talk or how close you are. Let old friends know you haven't forgotten them & new friends know u never will. Send to me too if I am your friend
I wish you all a happy day.
Cheers.
IBK
English na language, na native of England de speak am. A no be native of England o!! The late Babs Fafunwa, the erstwhile Minister of Education, wrote in *Learning and Teaching in our Mother Tongue* thus, "The colonial education robbed the Nigerian child of his inventiveness, creativity and originality. Since the Nigerian child is forced to think in English, other than in Hausa, Igbo, Yoruba and other local languages, the child finds it hard to assimilate instructions easily and build manual dexterity effectively." Babs Fafunwa was correct if we think about what kind of confusion will arise in the head of a Nigerian child who is being taught in a Physics lesson with the example of icy road to demonstrate slippery on frictionless surface when there is no snow season in Nigeria and the temperature throughout the whole year in the country is beyond melting point for snow or ice. To the Nigerian child, banana peels or okra on the ground would have been the best example of frictionless and slippery surface, instead of icy road.
To be able to write and speak English fluently cannot be equated to being educated. Some years ago, a light-headed woozy Bachelor of Arts in English who was a senior official in one of the Nigerian Embassy in Europe bought a new car. After dinner on that fateful evening, he excused himself from the wife and children to go to his car garage. With the door and windows of the garage closed, he key-started the car on neutral gear to listen to the radio while reading the car manual. He died of inhaled smoke from the exhaust pipe of the car. The policemen that came to the scene concluded that the ambassador's official had committed suicide because they assumed that the educated official of the embassy in question knew the consequence of inhaling carbon mono-oxide when he key-started the vehicle in an enclosure. Unfortunately, his knowledge of English language did not extend to the effect of inhalation of carbon mono-oxide which non-English speaking farmers in Nigerian villages deploy daily to drive out and kill animals by infusing concentration of smoke into their holes.
Education that cannot give us what we want is useless. We have a lot of good English speaking scientists, Engineers and Medical Doctors in Nigeria and despite the natural resources at their disposals, Nigeria remains poor and underdeveloped economically and industrially. Yet, our ancestors carried out experiments to know that the tortoise never suffers head ache, the snail never suffers liver pain and fish never suffers fever inside the river. With that said, a Nigerian who asserts that English is her/his first language is like asserting that butterflies are birds. For me I know what is ÌKÁMÌDÙ in Yoruba language but I don't know the English name for it!!
S.Kadiri
Från: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> för Ayo Obe <ayo.m...@gmail.com>
Skickat: den 26 oktober 2016 12:16
Ämne: Re: SV: USA Africa Dialogue Series - “Outrightly,” “Faithfuls,” “Graduands”: Q and A on Nigerian English and Learner Errors
"A native of England with primary school education can write and speak better English than the best Nigerian Professor of English language because as native of England he/she is born with the language."
I beg to differ. Many natives of England with primary school education write and speak execrable English. Being born with a language does not mean that you write or speak it better, even though it may give you a certain fluency. Both my parents, who were briefly teachers during their time as students in the UK, wrote and spoke better English than most of those they were teaching although Yoruba was their first language. In fact, both spoke and wrote Yoruba, and though I am not in a position to judge whether they spoke it impeccably, I should say that from the corrections they issued to junior Yoruba-speaking members of the household, that they were pretty good.
I also have to challenge the assertion that English is a second language "to all Nigerians". Not these days.
Lastly on Farooq's observations about being able to make judgments about people from the way they speak English: in Pygmalion George Bernard Shaw wrote that it was impossible for one Englishman to open his mouth and speak without making another Englishman despise him. Thus the native speakers of the language!
AyoI invite you to follow me on Twitter @naijama
English is the official language in Nigeria but it is not a national language. To all Nigerians, English is a secondary language to our mother tongues - Hausa, Igbo, Yoruba, Ijaw, Ibibio etc. No matter how good a Nigerian speaks and writes English it can never be as perfect as a born English native of England. The chance of learning the language perfectly in Nigeria varies and is limited, depending on which institution of learning one is lucky to attend. However, I am yet to meet any Caucasian who can read, write and speak any of Nigeria's ethnic languages perfectly as many Nigerians do in English language. Since we often equate fluency in spoken and written English language to being highly educated in Nigeria, Farooq Kperogi wrote, "From the way you write and speak English, people can tell your level of education, your social status, your regional identity, your professional affiliation, the depth of your immersion in the language."
A native of England with primary school education can write and speak better English than the best Nigerian Professor of English language because as native of England he/she is born with the language. Can we say the level of education of a German or a French Engineer is low because of lack of fluency in written and spoken English? Will the social status of a French, German, Spanish and Italian engineers in Nigeria be low because of their poor oral and written English language?
The purpose of language is to communicate effectively with the people of the nation in which that language is spoken. A national broadcast by the President of Nigeria is normally done in English but since absolute majority of Nigerians do not speak or understand English, the broadcast used to be translated into various indigenous languages. Wole Soyinka is a highly educated Nigerian with a very high social status. Once, he referred tacitly to the then First Lady, Patience Jonathan, as a hippopotamus that could be taken out of the swamp but the swamp could not be taken out of her, the hippopotamus. When the attention of Mrs. Jonathan was drawn to Professor Wole Soyinka's sarcastic reference to her as a hippopotamus, she said, "That Professor Soyinka sef, why den de call am Nobelle Loletta? Him be woman? E de play sheater, why e no de for Nollywood?" With her low education, Mrs Jonathan could communicate more effectively than Soyinka, with many Nigerians by speaking in the language most Nigerians understand and, in fact, the social status of Mrs. Patience Jonathan in Nigeria was not lower than that of the learned Professor.
S.Kadiri
Från: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> för Ibukunolu A Babajide <ibk...@gmail.com>
Skickat: den 25 oktober 2016 14:23
Till: Farooq A. Kperogi
Ibukunolu A Babajide
Dear Olayinka Agbetuyi,
You make salient points but we are digressing from the core issue. Late AG Federation and CJ Sir Darnley Alexander came to my 1983 set in Law School and mocked us that many of us will be bad lawyers because we do not think in English. I found this offensive, condescending and insulting. Why should I a proud Yoruba abandon thinking in my own language dispensing with my culture to think in English. Sorry I am happy to retain my humanity and translate or transliterate my thinking process into English. What that man and Kperogi are advocating is the ultimate mental colonisation and enslavement.
I too digress too far.
The core argument here is that at a point nobody, not Oxford University Press or Farooq Kperogi can be a gatekeeper of what is correct English or usage. Someone coined the phrase that USA and UK are the same people divided by a common language. India, Hong Kong and other far flung reaches of the old British empire to a great extent domesticated English. The language of English itself is residual German infused with Latin and medieval French and the Viking languages and local Gaelic dialects spoken by the aboriginals in the UK.
Yes tests are necessary for admission to formal education but they are not absolute. There is a story of a group of young Nigerians who after their London Matriculation exams in the 50's went to London to seek university admission. Most of them passed English so they were admitted for various courses but there was this Egba man who failed English Language but got A1 in The History of the British Empire. Under the rules of the University of London he was refused admission.
He then approached a Professor who after looking at his brilliant performance in other subjects including history wrote to the Admissions Dean to accept him for his law class afrerall he did not write and pass the other subjects in French.
This man was the first Nigerian to make a first class honours in law at the University of London but rumour had it that he was given a second class upper division.
The twin points I am making is that felicity in English is a pointer to ability but does not equate to being educated. Many dunces speak and write grammatically correct nonsense. Secondly and more importantly nobody can be the gatekeeper of the English language.
Cheers.
IBK
Your observations are largely true. But if you want to enter graduate school in the US there is test of advanced use of English which both native speakers and foreigners must take the scores of which in part determines intake. If.you score higher than a native American you would be admitted while the native American with low scores will be denied admission as people on this forum with American graduate degrees will confirm.
From the way you write, your grounding in Yoruba traditional culture is undeniable. Much of it would have been acquired through study of Yoruba written culture. Some who are urban Yoruba people who also have studied Yoruba culture in written form will not be as grounded in Yoruba as you are. How would you be able to write Ikamidu even if you could say it had you not learnt written Yoruba?
There are native English speakers who may know the English word for Ikamudu but unable to write it because they are inadequately educated natives. In the same vein there are children of native Yoruba who dont know what ikamidu is let alone write it down.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: Salimonu Kadiri <ogunl...@hotmail.com>Date: 26/10/2016 17:49 (GMT+00:00)Subject: SV: SV: USA Africa Dialogue Series - “Outrightly,” “Faithfuls,” “Graduands”: Q and A on Nigerian English and Learner Errors
English na language, na native of England de speak am. A no be native of England o!! The late Babs Fafunwa, the erstwhile Minister of Education, wrote in *Learning and Teaching in our Mother Tongue* thus, "The colonial education robbed the Nigerian child of his inventiveness, creativity and originality. Since the Nigerian child is forced to think in English, other than in Hausa, Igbo, Yoruba and other local languages, the child finds it hard to assimilate instructions easily and build manual dexterity effectively." Babs Fafunwa was correct if we think about what kind of confusion will arise in the head of a Nigerian child who is being taught in a Physics lesson with the example of icy road to demonstrate slippery on frictionless surface when there is no snow season in Nigeria and the temperature throughout the whole year in the country is beyond melting point for snow or ice. To the Nigerian child, banana peels or okra on the ground would have been the best example of frictionless and slippery surface, instead of icy road.
To be able to write and speak English fluently cannot be equated to being educated. Some years ago, a light-headed woozy Bachelor of Arts in English who was a senior official in one of the Nigerian Embassy in Europe bought a new car. After dinner on that fateful evening, he excused himself from the wife and children to go to his car garage. With the door and windows of the garage closed, he key-started the car on neutral gear to listen to the radio while reading the car manual. He died of inhaled smoke from the exhaust pipe of the car. The policemen that came to the scene concluded that the ambassador's official had committed suicide because they assumed that the educated official of the embassy in question knew the consequence of inhaling carbon mono-oxide when he key-started the vehicle in an enclosure. Unfortunately, his knowledge of English language did not extend to the effect of inhalation of carbon mono-oxide which non-English speaking farmers in Nigerian villages deploy daily to drive out and kill animals by infusing concentration of smoke into their holes.
Education that cannot give us what we want is useless. We have a lot of good English speaking scientists, Engineers and Medical Doctors in Nigeria and despite the natural resources at their disposals, Nigeria remains poor and underdeveloped economically and industrially. Yet, our ancestors carried out experiments to know that the tortoise never suffers head ache, the snail never suffers liver pain and fish never suffers fever inside the river. With that said, a Nigerian who asserts that English is her/his first language is like asserting that butterflies are birds. For me I know what is ÌKÁMÌDÙ in Yoruba language but I don't know the English name for it!!
S.Kadiri
Från: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> för Ayo Obe <ayo.m...@gmail.com>
Skickat: den 26 oktober 2016 12:16
Ämne: Re: SV: USA Africa Dialogue Series - “Outrightly,” “Faithfuls,” “Graduands”: Q and A on Nigerian English and Learner Errors
"A native of England with primary school education can write and speak better English than the best Nigerian Professor of English language because as native of England he/she is born with the language."
I beg to differ. Many natives of England with primary school education write and speak execrable English. Being born with a language does not mean that you write or speak it better, even though it may give you a certain fluency. Both my parents, who were briefly teachers during their time as students in the UK, wrote and spoke better English than most of those they were teaching although Yoruba was their first language. In fact, both spoke and wrote Yoruba, and though I am not in a position to judge whether they spoke it impeccably, I should say that from the corrections they issued to junior Yoruba-speaking members of the household, that they were pretty good.
I also have to challenge the assertion that English is a second language "to all Nigerians". Not these days.
Lastly on Farooq's observations about being able to make judgments about people from the way they speak English: in Pygmalion George Bernard Shaw wrote that it was impossible for one Englishman to open his mouth and speak without making another Englishman despise him. Thus the native speakers of the language!
AyoI invite you to follow me on Twitter @naijama
English is the official language in Nigeria but it is not a national language. To all Nigerians, English is a secondary language to our mother tongues - Hausa, Igbo, Yoruba, Ijaw, Ibibio etc. No matter how good a Nigerian speaks and writes English it can never be as perfect as a born English native of England. The chance of learning the language perfectly in Nigeria varies and is limited, depending on which institution of learning one is lucky to attend. However, I am yet to meet any Caucasian who can read, write and speak any of Nigeria's ethnic languages perfectly as many Nigerians do in English language. Since we often equate fluency in spoken and written English language to being highly educated in Nigeria, Farooq Kperogi wrote, "From the way you write and speak English, people can tell your level of education, your social status, your regional identity, your professional affiliation, the depth of your immersion in the language."
A native of England with primary school education can write and speak better English than the best Nigerian Professor of English language because as native of England he/she is born with the language. Can we say the level of education of a German or a French Engineer is low because of lack of fluency in written and spoken English? Will the social status of a French, German, Spanish and Italian engineers in Nigeria be low because of their poor oral and written English language?
The purpose of language is to communicate effectively with the people of the nation in which that language is spoken. A national broadcast by the President of Nigeria is normally done in English but since absolute majority of Nigerians do not speak or understand English, the broadcast used to be translated into various indigenous languages. Wole Soyinka is a highly educated Nigerian with a very high social status. Once, he referred tacitly to the then First Lady, Patience Jonathan, as a hippopotamus that could be taken out of the swamp but the swamp could not be taken out of her, the hippopotamus. When the attention of Mrs. Jonathan was drawn to Professor Wole Soyinka's sarcastic reference to her as a hippopotamus, she said, "That Professor Soyinka sef, why den de call am Nobelle Loletta? Him be woman? E de play sheater, why e no de for Nollywood?" With her low education, Mrs Jonathan could communicate more effectively than Soyinka, with many Nigerians by speaking in the language most Nigerians understand and, in fact, the social status of Mrs. Patience Jonathan in Nigeria was not lower than that of the learned Professor.
S.Kadiri
Från: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> för Ibukunolu A Babajide <ibk...@gmail.com>
Skickat: den 25 oktober 2016 14:23
Till: Farooq A. Kperogi
Salimonu Kadiri
Kenneth Harrow wrote this lovely piece : Some of us are too old or inept to become truly fluent. But probably most, if not all, if we apply ourselves to it, and live in the environment where the language is spoken, with effort we cannot only acquire fluency over time, but native fluency.
A Nigerian that migrates to America at the age of thirty, for instance, will speak English with Nigerian accent and even in written English, he must learn how to spell some English words in American way namely, labour or favour without the alphabet 'U'. With time the Nigerian immigrant would learn to speak American English with nasal sound. Even in the South of USA, Africans prefer to retain their African accents while speaking English in order to shield themselves from the persecution which is the birth-right of indigenous African-American. Speaking English with Nigerian accent has its advantages too in some parts of USA.
Kenneth is correct in postulating that if we live in the environment where the language (English) is spoken we can acquire fluency or native fluency. However, Nigeria is not an environment where English is spoken as a native language, like England and USA. In Nigeria, English is not a national language but official language which many Nigerians do not speak, understand, read or write. The colonial masters imposed English as the official language on Nigerians but saw to it that only a selective few who they needed to serve as intermediaries between them and the masses were taught English language. It was never in their interest that all Nigerians should be able to speak, read and write in English. And since Nigerians stepped into the colonialist shoes, as slave overseers, they have seen to it that learning of English language is restricted to privileged few. Premised on the fact that English is not a native or national language, but official language, I think it is unfair to taunt and harangue any Nigerian that studied English in Nigeria for not speaking or writing Queen's English. What should matter in communicating in a foreign language to a targeted audience is not only that the information being conveyed is accurate and correct but that the contents of the information are understandable regardless of any grammatical flaws.
Olayinka Agbetuyi claimed to have met an Igbo who spoke Hausa and Yoruba fluently, but he failed to understand, just as Kenneth pointed out, that the Igbo man had resided in the environment where Hausa and Yoruba were lingua franca. Besides there are many words in each ethnic language in Nigeria that mean the same things in relation to one another but have various spellings and pronunciations.
S.Kadiri
Skickat: den 26 oktober 2016 20:59
Olayinka Agbetuyi
Kenneth Harrow
Maybe I would want to add that if you don’t live in the environment where a language is spoken around you I don’t see how you could acquire native fluency.
All I know is, I couldn’t.
And yet I’ve heard and seen some amazing things—mostly from people who are gifted (which, I regret to say, I am not)
That is: I had a French teacher in Cameroon, decades ago, who had been posted in Vietnam where he watched American tv all the time. He had an amazingly good command of American English.
I’ve heard a great deal about hausa people up north who have watched so much Bollywood that they’ve learned hindi. Is that really possible?
Lastly, I can’t help but say I’ve been amazed by the command of 3-4-5 languages by so many African people. In some cases the languages are related; but even there, it isn’t easy. I think it has in part to do with expectations.
Americans, and brits, largely do not expect their children will master a foreign language, and it is very very low on our totem pole. It is uncommon to find an American or brit who speaks good French, for instance; and vice versa, the French are often very weak in English. There are historical and cultural reasons for this. but on the other hand, no one expects Mexicans having come to the u.s. not to speak English, and eventually very good English. Americans do better with Spanish than French, and I really don’t know why.
No doubt Farooq could explain that to me.
ken
Kenneth Harrow
Dept of English and Film Studies
http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/
Abdul Salau
Från: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> för Olayinka Agbetuyi <yagb...@hotmail.com>
Skickat: den 26 oktober 2016 20:59
Till: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Ämne: Re: SV: USA Africa Dialogue Series - “Outrightly,” “Faithfuls,” “Graduands”: Q and A on Nigerian English and Learner Errors
I met an Igbo young man in northern Nigeria who spoke to me in impeccable Yoruba whose claim to Igbo nationality I denied until I saw him speaking to fellow Igbo. He spoke fluent Hausa too by virtue of his domiciliation. I dont know how to classify him till today.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
From: Kenneth Harrow <har...@msu.edu>
Date: 26/10/2016 19:53 (GMT+00:00)
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: SV: USA Africa Dialogue Series - “Outrightly,” “Faithfuls,” “Graduands”: Q and A on Nigerian English and Learner Errors
Thanks olayinka.
Let’s put it another way. How many Africans speak more than one language? Do none of them speak 2 or even three with native fluency?
[answer: lots!]
ken
Kenneth Harrow
Dept of English and Film Studies
http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/
From: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Olayinka Agbetuyi <yagb...@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Date: Wednesday 26 October 2016 at 14:14
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: SV: USA Africa Dialogue Series - “Outrightly,” “Faithfuls,” “Graduands”: Q and A on Nigerian English and Learner Errors
Im with you there Ken. As a fellow comparatist Id be surprised if you did not react the way you did since this reality is at the core of the discipline, perhaps more than any other discipline: grasp of languages across cultures.
Not everyone is a comparatist by training; what is obvious to you may not be obvious to others.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
From: Kenneth Harrow <har...@msu.edu>
Date: 26/10/2016 18:58 (GMT+00:00)
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: SV: SV: USA Africa Dialogue Series - “Outrightly,” “Faithfuls,” “Graduands”: Q and A on Nigerian English and Learner Errors
English na language, na native of England de speak am. A no be native of England o!! The late Babs Fafunwa, the erstwhile Minister of Education, wrote in *Learning and Teaching in our Mother Tongue* thus, "The colonial education robbed the Nigerian child of his inventiveness, creativity and originality. Since the Nigerian child is forced to think in English, other than in Hausa, Igbo, Yoruba and other local languages, the child finds it hard to assimilate instructions easily and build manual dexterity effectively." Babs Fafunwa was correct if we think about what kind of confusion will arise in the head of a Nigerian child who is being taught in a Physics lesson with the example of icy road to demonstrate slippery on frictionless surface when there is no snow season in Nigeria and the temperature throughout the whole year in the country is beyond melting point for snow or ice. To the Nigerian child, banana peels or okra on the ground would have been the best example of frictionless and slippery surface, instead of icy road.
To be able to write and speak English fluently cannot be equated to being educated. Some years ago, a light-headed woozy Bachelor of Arts in English who was a senior official in one of the Nigerian Embassy in Europe bought a new car. After dinner on that fateful evening, he excused himself from the wife and children to go to his car garage. With the door and windows of the garage closed, he key-started the car on neutral gear to listen to the radio while reading the car manual. He died of inhaled smoke from the exhaust pipe of the car. The policemen that came to the scene concluded that the ambassador's official had committed suicide because they assumed that the educated official of the embassy in question knew the consequence of inhaling carbon mono-oxide when he key-started the vehicle in an enclosure. Unfortunately, his knowledge of English language did not extend to the effect of inhalation of carbon mono-oxide which non-English speaking farmers in Nigerian villages deploy daily to drive out and kill animals by infusing concentration of smoke into their holes.
Education that cannot give us what we want is useless. We have a lot of good English speaking scientists, Engineers and Medical Doctors in Nigeria and despite the natural resources at their disposals, Nigeria remains poor and underdeveloped economically and industrially. Yet, our ancestors carried out experiments to know that the tortoise never suffers head ache, the snail never suffers liver pain and fish never suffers fever inside the river. With that said, a Nigerian who asserts that English is her/his first language is like asserting that butterflies are birds. For me I know what is ÌKÁMÌDÙ in Yoruba language but I don't know the English name for it!!
S.Kadiri
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Ämne: Re: SV: USA Africa Dialogue Series - “Outrightly,” “Faithfuls,” “Graduands”: Q and A on Nigerian English and Learner Errors
"A native of England with primary school education can write and speak better English than the best Nigerian Professor of English language because as native of England he/she is born with the language."
I beg to differ. Many natives of England with primary school education write and speak execrable English. Being born with a language does not mean that you write or speak it better, even though it may give you a certain fluency. Both my parents, who were briefly teachers during their time as students in the UK, wrote and spoke better English than most of those they were teaching although Yoruba was their first language. In fact, both spoke and wrote Yoruba, and though I am not in a position to judge whether they spoke it impeccably, I should say that from the corrections they issued to junior Yoruba-speaking members of the household, that they were pretty good.
I also have to challenge the assertion that English is a second language "to all Nigerians". Not these days.
Lastly on Farooq's observations about being able to make judgments about people from the way they speak English: in Pygmalion George Bernard Shaw wrote that it was impossible for one Englishman to open his mouth and speak without making another Englishman despise him. Thus the native speakers of the language!
AyoI invite you to follow me on Twitter @naijama
On 25 Oct 2016, at 11:35 PM, Salimonu Kadiri <ogunl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
English is the official language in Nigeria but it is not a national language. To all Nigerians, English is a secondary language to our mother tongues - Hausa, Igbo, Yoruba, Ijaw, Ibibio etc. No matter how good a Nigerian speaks and writes English it can never be as perfect as a born English native of England. The chance of learning the language perfectly in Nigeria varies and is limited, depending on which institution of learning one is lucky to attend. However, I am yet to meet any Caucasian who can read, write and speak any of Nigeria's ethnic languages perfectly as many Nigerians do in English language. Since we often equate fluency in spoken and written English language to being highly educated in Nigeria, Farooq Kperogi wrote, "From the way you write and speak English, people can tell your level of education, your social status, your regional identity, your professional affiliation, the depth of your immersion in the language."
A native of England with primary school education can write and speak better English than the best Nigerian Professor of English language because as native of England he/she is born with the language. Can we say the level of education of a German or a French Engineer is low because of lack of fluency in written and spoken English? Will the social status of a French, German, Spanish and Italian engineers in Nigeria be low because of their poor oral and written English language?
The purpose of language is to communicate effectively with the people of the nation in which that language is spoken. A national broadcast by the President of Nigeria is normally done in English but since absolute majority of Nigerians do not speak or understand English, the broadcast used to be translated into various indigenous languages. Wole Soyinka is a highly educated Nigerian with a very high social status. Once, he referred tacitly to the then First Lady, Patience Jonathan, as a hippopotamus that could be taken out of the swamp but the swamp could not be taken out of her, the hippopotamus. When the attention of Mrs. Jonathan was drawn to Professor Wole Soyinka's sarcastic reference to her as a hippopotamus, she said, "That Professor Soyinka sef, why den de call am Nobelle Loletta? Him be woman? E de play sheater, why e no de for Nollywood?" With her low education, Mrs Jonathan could communicate more effectively than Soyinka, with many Nigerians by speaking in the language most Nigerians understand and, in fact, the social status of Mrs. Patience Jonathan in Nigeria was not lower than that of the learned Professor.
S.Kadiri
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Kenneth Harrow
A propos, is there any reason we shouldn’t consider pidgin an African language?
ken
Kenneth Harrow
Dept of English and Film Studies
http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/
From: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Abdul Salau <salau...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Friday 28 October 2016 at 01:52
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Från: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> för Olayinka Agbetuyi <yagb...@hotmail.com>
Skickat: den 26 oktober 2016 20:59
Till: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Ämne: Re: SV: USA Africa Dialogue Series - “Outrightly,” “Faithfuls,” “Graduands”: Q and A on Nigerian English and Learner Errors
I met an Igbo young man in northern Nigeria who spoke to me in impeccable Yoruba whose claim to Igbo nationality I denied until I saw him speaking to fellow Igbo. He spoke fluent Hausa too by virtue of his domiciliation. I dont know how to classify him till today.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
From: Kenneth Harrow <har...@msu.edu>
Date: 26/10/2016 19:53 (GMT+00:00)
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: SV: USA Africa Dialogue Series - “Outrightly,” “Faithfuls,” “Graduands”: Q and A on Nigerian English and Learner Errors
Thanks olayinka.
Let’s put it another way. How many Africans speak more than one language? Do none of them speak 2 or even three with native fluency?
[answer: lots!]
ken
Kenneth Harrow
Dept of English and Film Studies
http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/
From: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Olayinka Agbetuyi <yagb...@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Wednesday 26 October 2016 at 14:14
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: SV: USA Africa Dialogue Series - “Outrightly,” “Faithfuls,” “Graduands”: Q and A on Nigerian English and Learner Errors
Im with you there Ken. As a fellow comparatist Id be surprised if you did not react the way you did since this reality is at the core of the discipline, perhaps more than any other discipline: grasp of languages across cultures.
Not everyone is a comparatist by training; what is obvious to you may not be obvious to others.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
From: Kenneth Harrow <har...@msu.edu>
Date: 26/10/2016 18:58 (GMT+00:00)
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: SV: SV: USA Africa Dialogue Series - “Outrightly,” “Faithfuls,” “Graduands”: Q and A on Nigerian English and Learner Errors
English na language, na native of England de speak am. A no be native of England o!! The late Babs Fafunwa, the erstwhile Minister of Education, wrote in *Learning and Teaching in our Mother Tongue* thus, "The colonial education robbed the Nigerian child of his inventiveness, creativity and originality. Since the Nigerian child is forced to think in English, other than in Hausa, Igbo, Yoruba and other local languages, the child finds it hard to assimilate instructions easily and build manual dexterity effectively." Babs Fafunwa was correct if we think about what kind of confusion will arise in the head of a Nigerian child who is being taught in a Physics lesson with the example of icy road to demonstrate slippery on frictionless surface when there is no snow season in Nigeria and the temperature throughout the whole year in the country is beyond melting point for snow or ice. To the Nigerian child, banana peels or okra on the ground would have been the best example of frictionless and slippery surface, instead of icy road.
To be able to write and speak English fluently cannot be equated to being educated. Some years ago, a light-headed woozy Bachelor of Arts in English who was a senior official in one of the Nigerian Embassy in Europe bought a new car. After dinner on that fateful evening, he excused himself from the wife and children to go to his car garage. With the door and windows of the garage closed, he key-started the car on neutral gear to listen to the radio while reading the car manual. He died of inhaled smoke from the exhaust pipe of the car. The policemen that came to the scene concluded that the ambassador's official had committed suicide because they assumed that the educated official of the embassy in question knew the consequence of inhaling carbon mono-oxide when he key-started the vehicle in an enclosure. Unfortunately, his knowledge of English language did not extend to the effect of inhalation of carbon mono-oxide which non-English speaking farmers in Nigerian villages deploy daily to drive out and kill animals by infusing concentration of smoke into their holes.
Education that cannot give us what we want is useless. We have a lot of good English speaking scientists, Engineers and Medical Doctors in Nigeria and despite the natural resources at their disposals, Nigeria remains poor and underdeveloped economically and industrially. Yet, our ancestors carried out experiments to know that the tortoise never suffers head ache, the snail never suffers liver pain and fish never suffers fever inside the river. With that said, a Nigerian who asserts that English is her/his first language is like asserting that butterflies are birds. For me I know what is ÌKÁMÌDÙ in Yoruba language but I don't know the English name for it!!
S.Kadiri
Från: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> för Ayo Obe <ayo.m...@gmail.com>
Skickat: den 26 oktober 2016 12:16
Till: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Ämne: Re: SV: USA Africa Dialogue Series - “Outrightly,” “Faithfuls,” “Graduands”: Q and A on Nigerian English and Learner Errors
"A native of England with primary school education can write and speak better English than the best Nigerian Professor of English language because as native of England he/she is born with the language."
I beg to differ. Many natives of England with primary school education write and speak execrable English. Being born with a language does not mean that you write or speak it better, even though it may give you a certain fluency. Both my parents, who were briefly teachers during their time as students in the UK, wrote and spoke better English than most of those they were teaching although Yoruba was their first language. In fact, both spoke and wrote Yoruba, and though I am not in a position to judge whether they spoke it impeccably, I should say that from the corrections they issued to junior Yoruba-speaking members of the household, that they were pretty good.
I also have to challenge the assertion that English is a second language "to all Nigerians". Not these days.
Lastly on Farooq's observations about being able to make judgments about people from the way they speak English: in Pygmalion George Bernard Shaw wrote that it was impossible for one Englishman to open his mouth and speak without making another Englishman despise him. Thus the native speakers of the language!
AyoI invite you to follow me on Twitter @naijama
On 25 Oct 2016, at 11:35 PM, Salimonu Kadiri <ogunl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
English is the official language in Nigeria but it is not a national language. To all Nigerians, English is a secondary language to our mother tongues - Hausa, Igbo, Yoruba, Ijaw, Ibibio etc. No matter how good a Nigerian speaks and writes English it can never be as perfect as a born English native of England. The chance of learning the language perfectly in Nigeria varies and is limited, depending on which institution of learning one is lucky to attend. However, I am yet to meet any Caucasian who can read, write and speak any of Nigeria's ethnic languages perfectly as many Nigerians do in English language. Since we often equate fluency in spoken and written English language to being highly educated in Nigeria, Farooq Kperogi wrote, "From the way you write and speak English, people can tell your level of education, your social status, your regional identity, your professional affiliation, the depth of your immersion in the language."
A native of England with primary school education can write and speak better English than the best Nigerian Professor of English language because as native of England he/she is born with the language. Can we say the level of education of a German or a French Engineer is low because of lack of fluency in written and spoken English? Will the social status of a French, German, Spanish and Italian engineers in Nigeria be low because of their poor oral and written English language?
The purpose of language is to communicate effectively with the people of the nation in which that language is spoken. A national broadcast by the President of Nigeria is normally done in English but since absolute majority of Nigerians do not speak or understand English, the broadcast used to be translated into various indigenous languages. Wole Soyinka is a highly educated Nigerian with a very high social status. Once, he referred tacitly to the then First Lady, Patience Jonathan, as a hippopotamus that could be taken out of the swamp but the swamp could not be taken out of her, the hippopotamus. When the attention of Mrs. Jonathan was drawn to Professor Wole Soyinka's sarcastic reference to her as a hippopotamus, she said, "That Professor Soyinka sef, why den de call am Nobelle Loletta? Him be woman? E de play sheater, why e no de for Nollywood?" With her low education, Mrs Jonathan could communicate more effectively than Soyinka, with many Nigerians by speaking in the language most Nigerians understand and, in fact, the social status of Mrs. Patience Jonathan in Nigeria was not lower than that of the learned Professor.
S.Kadiri
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Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com
Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
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Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com
Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
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Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com
Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com
Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com
Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.