Marx’s Apologists Should Be Red in the Face

http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/

From: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of "Emeagwali, Gloria (History)" <emea...@ccsu.edu>
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Date: Friday 4 May 2018 at 15:41
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>, usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Marx’s Apologists Should Be Red in the Face - The Wall Street Journal.

Did Marx kill more persons than the British, Italian, Portuguese, Spanish, French, Dutch and German conquistadores and colonizers?

Half of the population of Libya was killed by the Italians and one third of Namibia by the Germans.

Has anyone been able to count the dead in the Americas?

Professor Gloria Emeagwali

From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Toyin Falola <toyin...@austin.utexas.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 3:16 PM
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Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Marx’s Apologists Should Be Red in the Face - The Wall Street Journal.

Marx’s Apologists Should Be Red in the Face
https://www.wsj.com/articles/marxs-apologists-should-be-red-in-the-face-1525388258?emailToken=69af803fd97ea75ec123106c910678036BMQwzeNBOcT5Pf7a%2FgoMcxMQuoeXzI4QsOgRs6x8SxXO%2BAhHYuVP4%2FfE2mgVNEEx0JOLcySTHtc87tLCnh6z8FnMy%2BvM2Q2H%2FU%2Bk5McyYo%3D
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Moses Ochonu

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May 5, 2018, 9:08:41 AM5/5/18

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The other things is, how many people were killed because of the fear of Marxist ideas, to stop Marxist ideas from spreading?

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Emeagwali, Gloria (History)

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May 5, 2018, 10:43:25 AM5/5/18

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"The answer is not that Marxism is responsible for fewer deaths than the conquistadores, but that marx’s ideals would run counter to such regimes that represented an abuse of marx’s thought." Harrow

Ken, since they are playing the numbers game we can certainly do that, too. Sometimes it is absolutely necessary to take stock.

But in the end, I appreciate your point that Marx' ideals would run counter to such regimes. Marx was super optimistic about the withering away of the state. Lenin, Stalin, Mao and Castro consolidated it beyond his wildest imagination. Whether or not they had a choice is open for debate.

Professor Gloria Emeagwali

Kenneth Harrow

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May 5, 2018, 3:44:42 PM5/5/18

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Marx was not god. We don’t have to be fundamentalists, and pretend every thing he wrote, or predicted, was gospel. There are obviously parts of Marxist thought that are mostly discarded by people on the left who consider themselves partisan of the Marxist ideals, ideals of social justice without one class dominating another. That part is simple. The ideas of a relationship between base and superstructure, on one form or another, relative determinism and the like, have become incorporated into most theory taught nowadays. The great struggles over postcolonial thought are grounded from the outset in people who were inspired by Marxist thought, from cesaire to fanon to cabral on to Spivak and mbembe. Cineastes like sembene or hondo or gerrima.

I would have trouble finding a single theorist who doesn’t work in and around Marxism, though for many communism became a nightmare, largely because it was so oppressive, not because it was Marxist (thinking of zizek here, or even Mudimbe, in his first novel).

It has been a long time since I wanted to examine the parts of marxism that were inspiring vs those to be discarded. Most clearly vanguardism was a problem, as were notions of determinism. The very best guide, for me, became Raymond Williams, still, and following him the Birmingham school. Not any serious thinking in my years, starting late 50s, seriously took communism as a continuation of Marxism, because in the 1950s and 60s stalin destroyed that tie. All the intellectuals of the 60s who had been communists gradually left for some version of socialism, or more radically trotskeyism or Maoism, at least for a while. After hungary and then czechslovakia, the community party in Europe had splintered and pink communism in Italy or socialism in most places, replaced it. later the left split, as it is now, between liberals and socialists, more or less, with most of the global south following the socialist ideals, with a few dictators on the left or right exceptions.

What is the resurrection of the red scare on the right really about?

Could it not be, as it typically was, a cover for authoritarianism and populism? And that movement in the interest of the Koch brothers and their like? Isn’t that what gave us trump, along with all those east European dictators, the populist dictatorships in Nicaragua and the Philippines?

If I were to continue to enumerate autocracies, I’d have to be thinking about the great lakes rulers, including kagame, nkurunzima and kabila. But with this list, and the two above—nicaragua and phillippines, we start entering into a frame driven by globalized powers that have nothing to do with the older notions of industrial capitalism and communism. It is neoliberalism, with the vast enterprises driving with such force, that the state has become sidelined, reduced, irrelevant. At this point, the argument over Marxism has become merely historical. Think about one thing. China, the state most given to private enterprise, is still ruled by a so-called communist state. marx and mao, say, have absolutely nothing to do with that “communism.”

We have to return, with derrida, to the spectre of Marxism, its ideals to organize the 99% and struggle for their interests to be represented, without returning to useless arguments and without being duped into imagining something called capitalism or communism is what we are really fighting over.

ken

Kenneth Harrow

Dept of English and Film Studies

Michigan State University

619 Red Cedar Rd

East Lansing, MI 48824

http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/

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Windows Live 2018

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May 5, 2018, 5:28:59 PM5/5/18

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You said Stalin destroyed the lie that Communism is a continuation of Marxism. But Marx and Engels in the Manifesto would disagree with you. They advocated a violent overthrow of the status quo. It happened in Russia. They maintained that overthrow with repression to guide against systemic failure.

O. Agbetuyi

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Date: 05/05/2018 21:00 (GMT+00:00)

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Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Marx’s Apologists Should Be Red in the Face - The Wall Street Journal.

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Marx was not god. We don’t have to be fundamentalists, and pretend every thing he wrote, or predicted, was gospel. There are obviously parts of Marxist thought that are mostly discarded by people on the left who consider themselves partisan of the Marxist ideals, ideals of social justice without one class dominating another. That part is simple. The ideas of a relationship between base and superstructure, on one form or another, relative determinism and the like, have become incorporated into most theory taught nowadays. The great struggles over postcolonial thought are grounded from the outset in people who were inspired by Marxist thought, from cesaire to fanon to cabral on to Spivak and mbembe. Cineastes like sembene or hondo or gerrima.

I would have trouble finding a single theorist who doesn’t work in and around Marxism, though for many communism became a nightmare, largely because it was so oppressive, not because it was Marxist (thinking of zizek here, or even Mudimbe, in his first novel).

It has been a long time since I wanted to examine the parts of marxism that were inspiring vs those to be discarded. Most clearly vanguardism was a problem, as were notions of determinism. The very best guide, for me, became Raymond Williams, still, and following him the Birmingham school. Not any serious thinking in my years, starting late 50s, seriously took communism as a continuation of Marxism, because in the 1950s and 60s stalin destroyed that tie. All the intellectuals of the 60s who had been communists gradually left for some version of socialism, or more radically trotskeyism or Maoism, at least for a while. After hungary and then czechslovakia, the community party in Europe had splintered and pink communism in Italy or socialism in most places, replaced it. later the left split, as it is now, between liberals and socialists, more or less, with most of the global south following the socialist ideals, with a few dictators on the left or right exceptions.

What is the resurrection of the red scare on the right really about?

Could it not be, as it typically was, a cover for authoritarianism and populism? And that movement in the interest of the Koch brothers and their like? Isn’t that what gave us trump, along with all those east European dictators, the populist dictatorships in Nicaragua and the Philippines?

If I were to continue to enumerate autocracies, I’d have to be thinking about the great lakes rulers, including kagame, nkurunzima and kabila. But with this list, and the two above—nicaragua and phillippines, we start entering into a frame driven by globalized powers that have nothing to do with the older notions of industrial capitalism and communism. It is neoliberalism, with the vast enterprises driving with such force, that the state has become sidelined, reduced, irrelevant. At this point, the argument over Marxism has become merely historical. Think about one thing. China, the state most given to private enterprise, is still ruled by a so-called communist state. marx and mao, say, have absolutely nothing to do with that “communism.”

We have to return, with derrida, to the spectre of Marxism, its ideals to organize the 99% and struggle for their interests to be represented, without returning to useless arguments and without being duped into imagining something called capitalism or communism is what we are really fighting over.

ken

Kenneth Harrow

Dept of English and Film Studies

Michigan State University

619 Red Cedar Rd

East Lansing, MI 48824

http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/

From: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of "Emeagwali, Gloria (History)" <emea...@ccsu.edu>

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Date: Saturday 5 May 2018 at 10:29
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Kenneth Harrow

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May 5, 2018, 5:44:53 PM5/5/18

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I don’t get your point. Marx and engels were indeed revolutionaries, but not with power. They died before the revolution in Russia, by many years. They did believe in violent revolution, to be sure. they imagined that revolution would be led by a vanguard, and supported by the people.

Maybe you should see the films of Eisenstein to imagine a Marxist view of the revolution in Russia, seen from the perspective of the masses.

Stalin led something else, really quite a sad and monstrous falling away from the origins. The guide, for me, into that world is Hannah arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism.

ken

Kenneth Harrow

Dept of English and Film Studies

Michigan State University

619 Red Cedar Rd

East Lansing, MI 48824

http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/

From: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Windows Live 2018 <yagb...@hotmail.com>
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Date: Saturday 5 May 2018 at 17:17
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Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Marx’s Apologists Should Be Red in the Face - The Wall Street Journal.

You said Stalin destroyed the lie that Communism is a continuation of Marxism. But Marx and Engels in the Manifesto would disagree with you. They advocated a violent overthrow of the status quo. It happened in Russia. They maintained that overthrow with repression to guide against systemic failure.

O. Agbetuyi

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Kenneth Harrow

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May 5, 2018, 10:38:44 PM5/5/18

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I have another reflection on this. the proletariat, the working class, described by marx and engels in the manifesto, was an oppressed class. The exploitation and conditions of work were monstrous. They were not only abused, but held in check by police and soldiers, not only in the u.k. but throughout Europe and the u.s.

The violence was something they were victims of.

And then the ruling classes accuse the very people whose labor they exploit of creating class warfare. Even today, that warped rightwing logic is used, and the more the propaganda is repeated, the more many people remain duped, and come to believe it is natural that this order of 1% owning everything is somehow the best.

On top of that, the anti-marxist rhetoric is turned up at a point when this neoliberal capitalist order is more pervasive than ever in history.

The irony here is really bitter.

ken

Kenneth Harrow

Dept of English and Film Studies

Michigan State University

619 Red Cedar Rd

East Lansing, MI 48824

http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/

Windows Live 2018

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May 7, 2018, 8:41:20 AM5/7/18

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How many of the 99% of the working classes who were the target of Marx's activism had (and still has) access to Marx's writings? We're they really his targets?

Ayinka Agbetuyi

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This kind of attack on marx is typical of the red scare anti-communist movement from the 19^th century on through the 20^th. derrida distinguished between marx and Marxism, or what the various movements made of marx. To equate a figure like stalin with Marxist thought is abusive of history. Stalin is responsible for Stalinism. That he came on the heels of a Marxist revolution doesn’t mean that the totalitarian regime he engineering, the purges, the statism, the “revolution in one state,” in short the repressive regime, had anything to do with an ideology that conceived of the state “withering away” as the bourgeoisie was converted—not slaughtered—to a class with higher consciousness.

Every one of the reproaches of Marxism is built on this false connection of authoritarian abuse. It really strikes me as a playground level of thought, and it always amazed me that my students would parrot the conflation of Marxist thought and anticommunist propaganda.

There is really a core to this that needs to be reasserted. Marx built his political activism on the idea of mobilizing the working classes, and attempting to put the interests of the working class, the 99% we’d say in this country, above those of the 1% who ruled and imposed their ideology on the rest of society. A simple notion that is replicated again and again. a simple notion of a just society, deflected by pieces like this wall st. editorial.

I don’t think we should begin to accept it by acknowledging that the killings and dictatorships of regimes like cambodia’s or china’s embody the ideals or even ideas articulated by marx. The answer is not that Marxism is responsible for fewer deaths than the conquistadores, but that marx’s ideals would run counter to such regimes that represented an abuse of marx’s thought.

ken

Kenneth Harrow

Dept of English and Film Studies

Michigan State University

619 Red Cedar Rd

East Lansing, MI 48824

http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/

From: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of "Emeagwali, Gloria (History)" <emea...@ccsu.edu>

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Date: Friday 4 May 2018 at 15:41
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Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Marx’s Apologists Should Be Red in the Face - The Wall Street Journal.

Did Marx kill more persons than the British, Italian, Portuguese, Spanish, French, Dutch and German conquistadores and colonizers?

Half of the population of Libya was killed by the Italians and one third of Namibia by the Germans.

Has anyone been able to count the dead in the Americas?

Professor Gloria Emeagwali

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Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 3:16 PM
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Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Marx’s Apologists Should Be Red in the Face - The Wall Street Journal.

Marx’s Apologists Should Be Red in the Face

https://www.wsj.com/articles/marxs-apologists-should-be-red-in-the-face-1525388258?emailToken=69af803fd97ea75ec123106c910678036BMQwzeNBOcT5Pf7a%2FgoMcxMQuoeXzI4QsOgRs6x8SxXO%2BAhHYuVP4%2FfE2mgVNEEx0JOLcySTHtc87tLCnh6z8FnMy%2BvM2Q2H%2FU%2Bk5McyYo%3D

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Windows Live 2018

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May 7, 2018, 8:41:38 AM5/7/18

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Moses.

What is your take on the quote that Marx himself does not want to be associated with Marxism?

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The other things is, how many people were killed because of the fear of Marxist ideas, to stop Marxist ideas from spreading?

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On May 5, 2018, at 1:49 AM, Windows Live 2018 <yagb...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Emeagwali, Gloria (History)

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May 7, 2018, 9:13:43 AM5/7/18

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Some of the working class did not have access to his writings but hand outs and pamphlets were apparently made from time to time by union organizers etc. When the 1848 protest movements erupted around Europe in terms of strikes and barricades, his populist writing on Communism emerged.....the famous "Workers of the world unite......" So it seems that he and his supporters actually tried to reach ordinary workers.

On another note, Biko, do you know that Francis and Taylor are charging about 40 dollars for a

print-out of your article on Marx. If that is not exploitation and price gouging then nothing is.

Well Fidel once said that he was not a Marxist and so also Marx, it is claimed. When your theory

and ideas become unrecognizable in the hands of pundits and interpreters you may well have to make a disclaimer. It could be that Christ would probably say the same thing, namely, I am not a Christian. I doubt that he would support the pedophilia that emerged in one of the esteemed sects of the Christian church.

Professor Gloria Emeagwali

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Kenneth Harrow

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May 7, 2018, 9:17:41 AM5/7/18

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Targets is a funny word. He embraced the communist party as embodying the working class movement. He lived in relative poverty, making a slight living from writing for newspapers. His writings were political and economic philosophy. He wrote the most famous political tract in history, The Communist Manifesto, which was intended for the broad public.

The real question is, can one be a philosopher and also an activist, and my impression is that marx was both.

The question I have for those espousing anti-communist or anti-marxist views is, what is your real target. For some, totalitarianism is the same as communism; for others, the idea that a working class should live under the thumb of an educated ruling class, called in the past the bourgeoisie, seems normal. For the former point, all I can say is that marx was not stalin, and to take it further, stalin and the Russian communist party and its successors, destroyed the value in the workers movement that put the communists in power. When people became disillusioned with the rigidities of the communist party, they turned to socialism and created socialist parties. Most intellectuals of the 1950s, outside of asia and africa, took that path. By the 1970s, it was hard to find communist intellectuals, unless they were engaged in revolutions or wars, like Vietnam or guinea-bissau.

For the latter point, I would say that you might read some pikkety to get an idea of an economic who challenges the unequal distribution of wealth that marks our times.

ken

Kenneth Harrow

Dept of English and Film Studies

Michigan State University

619 Red Cedar Rd

East Lansing, MI 48824

http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/

From: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Windows Live 2018 <yagb...@hotmail.com>
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Date: Monday 7 May 2018 at 04:11
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Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Marx’s Apologists Should Be Red in the Face - The Wall Street Journal.

How many of the 99% of the working classes who were the target of Marx's activism had (and still has) access to Marx's writings? We're they really his targets?

Ayinka Agbetuyi

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Biko Agozino

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May 7, 2018, 10:11:31 AM5/7/18

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Gloria, I did not know that Comrades Taylor & Francis charge an arm and a leg for a printout of my article. You can always get it through Inter Library Loan. I understand that the ROAPE collective awards grants to scholars based in Africa from portions of the revenues. Taylor & Francis also claims the copyright to the complete works of Marx but www.marxism.org claimed fair use for academic purposes by making the pdf versions available free of charge. The publishers can still sell the hard copies to libraries and expropriate surplus values.

Biko

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Windows Live 2018

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May 7, 2018, 12:28:24 PM5/7/18

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Thank you GE about your observations on Christ. I almost included that in my earlier postings. I have often wondered if there is indeed a second coming Christ would be able to reconcile himself to all the edifice erected in his name. Quite a modest man belonging to a Spartan brotherhood. However we need to take Marxs denials with the pinch of salt. Why go to all that length to systematise your thinking then recording and preserving correspondence letters if you dont wsnt to be associated with marxism when the point is that you ARE Marxism .

The workers demonstrations showed that they succeeded in awakening a generation of 'disciples" to which their writings were directed and who would be the nucleus of the vanguard they wrote about.

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Some of the working class did not have access to his writings but hand outs and pamphlets were apparently made from time to time by union organizers etc. When the 1848 protest movements erupted around Europe in terms of strikes and barricades, his populist writing on Communism emerged.....the famous "Workers of the world unite......" So it seems that he and his supporters actually tried to reach ordinary workers.

On another note, Biko, do you know that Francis and Taylor are charging about 40 dollars for a

print-out of your article on Marx. If that is not exploitation and price gouging then nothing is.

Well Fidel once said that he was not a Marxist and so also Marx, it is claimed. When your theory

and ideas become unrecognizable in the hands of pundits and interpreters you may well have to make a disclaimer. It could be that Christ would probably say the same thing, namely, I am not a Christian. I doubt that he would support the pedophilia that emerged in one of the esteemed sects of the Christian church.

Professor Gloria Emeagwali

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Sent: Monday, May 7, 2018 4:11 AM

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Windows Live 2018

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May 7, 2018, 12:28:27 PM5/7/18

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Ken.

I'm an embodiment of the unequal distribution of wealth you speak of. I am fascinated by the practical manifestation of the workers creed and the philosophy behind it; the incongruence. To paraphrase it bluntly as WS put it In the 70s in the heyday of Marxist debates on campus:

1. is the university teacher a worker in the same way as a building site worker is?

2. Was Marx's activism realistic in that regard?

3. On his sick bed as the article showed Marx decided to shave his beard in order not to leave to posterity the prophetic look a gambit that did not succeed. Does this not indicate that those who see Marxism as the new religion are correct in that in spite of declarations to the contrary Marx and Freud deliberately constituted themselves as the High Priesthood of the new religion:science? We must remember they came to public consciousness in the scientific heyfays of the 19th century when new scientific disciplines came on stream.

I stand to be corrected but it seems USSR stands for socialist republic (and not communist republic)

In the case of Freud he was categorical on the question of method that the underguarding principle was the 'welthanchauung of science. My point is you dont go to the meticulous extent both went on the fortuitous gamble.

They set out to be the modern equivalent of Mohammed, Jesus and Moses with the third triumvir Einstein joining in the early years of the 20th century.(Jesus and Mohammed were not exactly rich at the commencement of their ministries too, hence their alleged benefactresses)

Freud lamented when the 15 th edition of The Interpretation of Dreams was published that it had not caught global attention as envisaged. They replaced self consciously the miracles of religion with the miracles of science the new zeitgeist. The whole universe was their playground and it is interesting how Marx was reported to be cooperating the archaeology of the universe to that of formation of social systems: a totalising mindset.

O.Agbetuyi

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

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From: 'Biko Agozino' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

Date: 07/05/2018 15:54 (GMT+00:00)

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Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Marx’s Apologists Should Be Red in the Face - The Wall Street Journal.

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Gloria, I did not know that Comrades Taylor & Francis charge an arm and a leg for a printout of my article. You can always get it through Inter Library Loan. I understand that the ROAPE collective awards grants to scholars based in Africa from portions of the revenues. Taylor & Francis also claims the copyright to the complete works of Marx but www.marxism.org claimed fair use for academic purposes by making the pdf versions available free of charge. The publishers can still sell the hard copies to libraries and expropriate surplus values.

Biko

On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 9:17 AM, Kenneth Harrow

<har...@msu.edu> wrote:

Kenneth Harrow

unread,

May 7, 2018, 1:07:53 PM5/7/18

to usaafricadialogue

Marx was a young Hegelian, who set out to challenge idealism with dialectical materialism. To be perfectly honest, there is no profit in discussing whether marx was proletarian or bourgeois, or whether the u.s.s.r was socialist. That’s not “what we’re talking about.” That is, that’s not of interest to anybody. The question is whether marx’s reading of history and his philosophical emphasis on how materialism drives human ways of understand the world, were of importance.

If I were to provide a list of important thinkers who have been largely influenced by marx’s thought, it would stretch very very far.

If I were to provide a list of marx’s anti-communist critics, I doubt there would be a handful who are taken seriously.

Was his thought revised, over time, by thinkers on the left? Of course.

Lastly, to repeat, marx was not god. He wrote a lot; was brilliant and influential on generations of thinkers, not to mention activists. The attempts to discredit him are not new; they largely originate in public political writers, not in philosophers or serious political thinkers.

I say this because I seriously share many criticisms of Marxist thought, but I don’t believe that those old arguments are relevant today.

When you can produce a meaningful refutation of Raymond williams’s work on marx, then I’d be interested. I haven’t really come across that.

Maybe we are really talking at cross purposes. You are emphasizing the larger political changes, most of which I am lumping into the category analysed by arendt as totalitarian. I am emphasizing the ways Marxist thought influenced generations of major thinkers, including almost all the important postcolonial thinkers and writers of the period of the struggle for independence.

I offered a list of names before. Just consider cesaire and fanon, and tell me why I should listen to the rightwing commentators of today whose goals continue along the lines of those who oppressed Africa from the start.

Best

ken

Kenneth Harrow

Dept of English and Film Studies

Michigan State University

619 Red Cedar Rd

East Lansing, MI 48824

http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/

From: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Windows Live 2018 <yagb...@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Monday 7 May 2018 at 12:04
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Marx’s Apologists Should Be Red in the Face - The Wall Street Journal.

Ken.

I'm an embodiment of the unequal distribution of wealth you speak of. I am fascinated by the practical manifestation of the workers creed and the philosophy behind it; the incongruence. To paraphrase it bluntly as WS put it In the 70s in the heyday of Marxist debates on campus:

1. is the university teacher a worker in the same way as a building site worker is?

2. Was Marx's activism realistic in that regard?

3. On his sick bed as the article showed Marx decided to shave his beard in order not to leave to posterity the prophetic look a gambit that did not succeed. Does this not indicate that those who see Marxism as the new religion are correct in that in spite of declarations to the contrary Marx and Freud deliberately constituted themselves as the High Priesthood of the new religion:science? We must remember they came to public consciousness in the scientific heyfays of the 19th century when new scientific disciplines came on stream.

I stand to be corrected but it seems USSR stands for socialist republic (and not communist republic)

In the case of Freud he was categorical on the question of method that the underguarding principle was the 'welthanchauung of science. My point is you dont go to the meticulous extent both went on the fortuitous gamble.

They set out to be the modern equivalent of Mohammed, Jesus and Moses with the third triumvir Einstein joining in the early years of the 20th century.(Jesus and Mohammed were not exactly rich at the commencement of their ministries too, hence their alleged benefactresses)

Freud lamented when the 15 th edition of The Interpretation of Dreams was published that it had not caught global attention as envisaged. They replaced self consciously the miracles of religion with the miracles of science the new zeitgeist. The whole universe was their playground and it is interesting how Marx was reported to be cooperating the archaeology of the universe to that of formation of social systems: a totalising mindset.

O.Agbetuyi

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------

From: 'Biko Agozino' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

Date: 07/05/2018 15:54 (GMT+00:00)