Military Hand Signals
John Parkinson
wondering:
Are hand signals generic and used the same way by armed forces the world
over, or do different countries have there own specific set of signals? I
can see pros and cons for both possibilities.
Is there some sort of protocol when in silent patrol to ensure that the
signal given at the front of the patrol reaches and is understood by the
rear of the patrol?
If the protocol is simply "keep visual contact with the guy in front of
you", what happens if the guy at the back is the guy that senses the need to
stop and drop? I recall reading in Bravo Two Zero that the SAS patrol got
separated because the messages were coming from the back and not reaching
the front of the patrol.
Can anyone recommend a book or web-site on military hand signals?
Fanx in advance.
Regards,
John
Aaron R. Kulkis
>
> I always see them being used by combat patrols in the movies and was
> wondering:
>
> Are hand signals generic and used the same way by armed forces the world
> over, or do different countries have there own specific set of signals? I
> can see pros and cons for both possibilities.
>
> Is there some sort of protocol when in silent patrol to ensure that the
> signal given at the front of the patrol reaches and is understood by the
> rear of the patrol?
>
> If the protocol is simply "keep visual contact with the guy in front of
> you", what happens if the guy at the back is the guy that senses the need to
> stop and drop? I recall reading in Bravo Two Zero that the SAS patrol got
> separated because the messages were coming from the back and not reaching
> the front of the patrol.
They screwed up by not keeping small, low-power radios on their person
for just that sort of emergency (having to quickly bug out upon discovery).
>
> Can anyone recommend a book or web-site on military hand signals?
>
> Fanx in advance.
>
> Regards,
> John
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
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J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
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also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
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...despite (C) above.
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V-Man
>over, or do different countries have there own specific set of signals?
Each nation has their own, but some are fairly generic. A signal that would
be generic is holding your hand flat, fingers up, palm towards you, and
"waving" you hand towards your body, a "come on" signal. Often seen in vehicle
handling in tight areas.
>Is there some sort of protocol when in silent patrol to ensure that the
>signal given at the front of the patrol reaches and is understood by the
>rear of the patrol?
Yes. The patrol leader passes a signal to the man behind him and it is to be
repeated in trun by EVERY man. This is a low light or dense undergrowth
situation. Otherwise, it's normal for, when stopped, each man to look at his
team or section leader from time to time. Each leader is, ultimately,
responsible for signals getting passed.
>I recall reading in Bravo Two Zero that the SAS patrol got
>separated because the messages were coming from the back and not reaching
>the front of the patrol.
Sierra Hotel (that's GI phonetic alphabet for "shit happens")
V-Man A Knight is sworn to Valor, His Heart knows only Virtue
=/\= His Blade defends the Weak, His Word speaks only Truth
(-o-) His Wrath undoes the Wicked
<*>
Jarno Nurminen
>Is there some sort of protocol when in silent patrol to ensure that the
>signal given at the front of the patrol reaches and is understood by the
>rear of the patrol?
I guess the basic idea is that everyone repeats the hand signs so that the
last man will get the message. And then the last guy returns a message
saying that he got the sign OK. When the group gets more familiar with each
other, all manouvers will be done automatically without any signs, at least
in most of the cases.
>If the protocol is simply "keep visual contact with the guy in front of
>you", what happens if the guy at the back is the guy that senses the need
to
>stop and drop? I recall reading in Bravo Two Zero that the SAS patrol got
>separated because the messages were coming from the back and not reaching
>the front of the patrol.
That's a problem. This means that everyone has to keep track of what is
going on at the rear end...Small radios and such gizmos are naturally neat
to have, but most of the basic infantry guys will propably never see them.
- Jarno
DeathBunny
...usually reasonably standardized by being a general infantry type-task and
taught to trainees before they get to their unit (who probably modifies
them...)
A "headcount" signal appears in the US Army that basically is a way to make
sure everyone is there. It's given and then returned to the leader with the
number of people in the unit behind him...so he knows if someone's missing
and can ensure everyone's alert...
--
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism
while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
-W.R. Inge
"A democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding on what to have for lunch.
Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the results of the decision."
- Benjamin Franklin
"Run away! Run Away!"
-King Arthur, Monty Python's Search for the Holy Grail
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution
inevitable.
-- John F. Kennedy
"John Parkinson" <jay...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:UVxd6.93544$xW4.7...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Doug Berry
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <aku...@yahoo.com>, wrote thusly:
>They screwed up by not keeping small, low-power radios on their person
>for just that sort of emergency (having to quickly bug out upon discovery).
You go hump the weight, wanna-be.
If you get seperated, go to the last designated rally point.
(Team leader points to spot, while making a circle in the air
with other hand.)
--
Douglas E. Berry grid...@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/
Regimental Operations, EO/ADA Compliance Officer
107th Infantry Regiment, "Eleanor Roosevelt"
Grnbe21505
team. At any rate, what you want is FM 21-60. Mine is September 87, although
there may be a more current one.
I am cognizant of my limitations,
and they are few.
Aaron R. Kulkis
>
> And lo, it came to pass on Tue, 30 Jan 2001 07:06:58 -0500 that
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" <aku...@yahoo.com>, wrote thusly:
>
> >They screwed up by not keeping small, low-power radios on their person
> >for just that sort of emergency (having to quickly bug out upon discovery).
>
> You go hump the weight, wanna-be.
2 pounds? Ooooooooh, kill me.
>
> If you get seperated, go to the last designated rally point.
> (Team leader points to spot, while making a circle in the air
> with other hand.)
There was no rally point, you shit-head. They were fleeing for
their lives, under cover of darkness and snow BEHIND enemy lines in
Iraq.
>
> --
>
> Douglas E. Berry grid...@mindspring.com
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/
>
> Regimental Operations, EO/ADA Compliance Officer
> 107th Infantry Regiment, "Eleanor Roosevelt"
****
>
> Doug Berry wrote:
> >
> > And lo, it came to pass on Tue, 30 Jan 2001 07:06:58 -0500 that
> > "Aaron R. Kulkis" <aku...@yahoo.com>, wrote thusly:
> >
> > >They screwed up by not keeping small, low-power radios on their person
> > >for just that sort of emergency (having to quickly bug out upon discovery).
> >
> > You go hump the weight, wanna-be.
>
> 2 pounds? Ooooooooh, kill me.
yup, yer a wannabe.......
REAL soldiers know just how fast those "2 pound" items turn into
a shitload of weight.
thanks for showing just how stupid you are, not to mention what an
inexperienced, lying, never done nothing "war hero" you are, shitbird.
> > If you get seperated, go to the last designated rally point.
> > (Team leader points to spot, while making a circle in the air
> > with other hand.)
>
> There was no rally point, you shit-head. They were fleeing for
> their lives, under cover of darkness and snow BEHIND enemy lines in
> Iraq.
all the more reason to follow procedure and establish rally points.
there's a reason it's common doctrine, and a reason you DON'T know it.
redc1c4,
/me makes the appropriate hand and arm signal to erron
DeathBunny
briefing/pre-mission planning.
--
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism
while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
-W.R. Inge
"A democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding on what to have for lunch.
Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the results of the decision."
- Benjamin Franklin
"Run away! Run Away!"
-King Arthur, Monty Python's Search for the Holy Grail
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution
inevitable.
-- John F. Kennedy
"****" <cyp...@null.spam.com> wrote in message
news:3A776EAC...@null.spam.com...
RTO Trainer
<aku...@yahoo.com> deposited in this place with great ceremony:
>John Parkinson wrote:
>>
>> I always see them being used by combat patrols in the movies and was
>> wondering:
>>
>> Are hand signals generic and used the same way by armed forces the world
>> over, or do different countries have there own specific set of signals? I
>> can see pros and cons for both possibilities.
>>
>> Is there some sort of protocol when in silent patrol to ensure that the
>> signal given at the front of the patrol reaches and is understood by the
>> rear of the patrol?
>>
>> If the protocol is simply "keep visual contact with the guy in front of
>> you", what happens if the guy at the back is the guy that senses the need to
>> stop and drop? I recall reading in Bravo Two Zero that the SAS patrol got
>> separated because the messages were coming from the back and not reaching
>> the front of the patrol.
>
>They screwed up by not keeping small, low-power radios on their person
>for just that sort of emergency (having to quickly bug out upon discovery).
>
You mean like the non-secure soldier intercom, or the crappy little
comercial radios I see 2LTs running around with?
Ever thought about non-secure comms in a combat zone and what that can
do?
Ever thought about the lack of radio discipline that happens
when"everyone" has a radio (like in the convoy back and forth to AT)?
No thanks.
You're a 31 what?
RTO Trainer
31U, OKARNG 45th SIB
Always Forward!
If the mind is to emerge unscathed from this
relentless struggle with the unforeseen, two
qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect
that, even in the darkest hour, retains some
glimmerings of the inner light which leads to truth;
and second, the courage to follow this faint light
wherever it may lead.
--Clausewitz, ON WAR
RTO Trainer
crap that's gonna get soldiers killed burns me. Couldn't let it go
by.
On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 04:48:03 GMT, rww...@netzero.net (RTO Trainer)
Doug Berry
"DeathBunny" <todkan...@home.com>, wrote thusly:
>Unless they got "hit" on the LZ/DZ... and neglected that possibility in the
>briefing/pre-mission planning.
That's a mighty big if.
Doug Berry
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <aku...@yahoo.com>, wrote thusly:
>Doug Berry wrote:
>>
>> And lo, it came to pass on Tue, 30 Jan 2001 07:06:58 -0500 that
>> "Aaron R. Kulkis" <aku...@yahoo.com>, wrote thusly:
>> You go hump the weight, wanna-be.
>
>2 pounds? Ooooooooh, kill me.
Yep, if you have to hump all night. along with your weapon,
ammo, mission critical equipment, some dry socks, etc.. etc..
>>
>> If you get seperated, go to the last designated rally point.
>> (Team leader points to spot, while making a circle in the air
>> with other hand.)
>
>There was no rally point, you shit-head. They were fleeing for
>their lives, under cover of darkness and snow BEHIND enemy lines in
>Iraq.
Then the dumb shit leader, if he lived, should have been shot for
not establishing rally points. You always do this, even if you
are going on a march to the shower point!
DeathBunny
But about the ONLY way...and a VERY abnormal occurence in that terrain in
this day and age...
--
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism
while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
-W.R. Inge
"A democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding on what to have for lunch.
Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the results of the decision."
- Benjamin Franklin
"Run away! Run Away!"
-King Arthur, Monty Python's Search for the Holy Grail
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution
inevitable.
-- John F. Kennedy
"Doug Berry" <grid...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:7lhg7tstv4rdatpdt...@4ax.com...
David Casey
> > You go hump the weight, wanna-be.
>
> 2 pounds? Ooooooooh, kill me.
Damn, if you had posted, "I'm a wannabe soldier and don't know thing one
about infantry nor how they live," it wouldn't have been as obvious you have
no idea what you think you are talking about. You may now try and weasel
out of this corner you have once more backed yourself into. Aaron, POST!
> There was no rally point, you shit-head. They were fleeing for
> their lives, under cover of darkness and snow BEHIND enemy lines in
> Iraq.
Once again, you have little idea of what you are talking about. Hey Aaron,
what is a rally point and how/when are they used?
Dave
David Casey
> My apologies to the group for replying to Aaron, but the squad radio
> crap that's gonna get soldiers killed burns me. Couldn't let it go
> by.
That's okay. Anyone listening to something Aaron says concerning the
military is bound to be killed. Sooner or later they'll be messing with the
BDU pants leg they've got over their SINCGARS handset cord and miss the
half-buried mine they're about to step on.
Dave
billh
"Aaron R. Kulkis"
> > >They screwed up by not keeping small, low-power radios on their person
> > >for just that sort of emergency (having to quickly bug out upon
discovery).
> >
> > You go hump the weight, wanna-be.
>
> 2 pounds? Ooooooooh, kill me.
Damn right, KuKuNut. Any infantryman knows the problem with your line if
thinking. Only two pounds here, one pound there. Soon all you
never-been-infantry types have the rifleman carrying more than half his
weight on his back.
Jarno Nurminen
<28ce6.1533$ln1.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
>Damn right, KuKuNut. Any infantryman knows the problem with your line if
>thinking. Only two pounds here, one pound there. Soon all you
>never-been-infantry types have the rifleman carrying more than half his
>weight on his back.
So what is the (about) the typical weight of basic field equipment you have
to carry in US army? Or do you have any "standard pacakage" for everybody to
use? With field equipment I mean something that you take with you for patrol
trips and such.
- Jarno
Toltori
and the original poster not sounding military might have a harder time.
Just to check if Canada does things the same:
Hand in a broad forward chopping motion is "forward in single file"?
Two finger to eyes and then pointing to a given direction means "look at
this"?
The last one plus a circular motion pointing at that place as to designate
an RV point?
Hand in a fist, motioning up and down means speed up/run? (Kinda looks like
jerking off, so I've heard, he he)
Palm flat in same motion means slow down?
Both hands out wide waving forward mean spread out forward?
Both hands palms down waving up and down means get down/take cover?
Funny thing about the movies, I was taught that when you hold your hand up
flat (to signal stop) and then make a fist, it meant "machine gun nest" or
some grave threat, where in the movies it always seems to mean "attack."
Can someone clarify this for me?
In further reply to Mr. Parkinson in night exercises (sorry guys, never been
on an "op"), it gets extremely dark without the glow of city/base light so
you generally try real hard to keep in physical contact with the guy in
front of you (preferably an hand on the shoulder ;-) so you don't get lost
and so that you can get his or her attention to signal when needed. Then
you use some agreed upon convention (and we'll see if they're pretty much
universal if someone replies), such as the above examples, if they're of any
help/interest to you.
[ If you're really interested and young enough, try enlisting even if it's
just reserves, and I promise you'll never regret the experience, if you can
have thick enough skin and don't mind some hard work. Reading this group, I
see some ppl who will prolly never cease to bitch, but others who love(d)
their experiences. Sometimes it's all crap, and all you can think of is how
that bugger ahead who passed out from heat exhaustion and doesn't have to
complete the never-ending ruckmarch is so damned lucky, or how all you want
to do is but stroke that NCO with your rifle. But later, when you're eating
that 10 year old choclate bar from your field rations shooting the bull,
that's all forgotten and you know you'd never give it up. Self-discipline,
pride, motivation and common-sense is what you'll learn (from any trade, I'd
bet). He he, I'm re-enrolling for this July after a few years away, so maybe
I'll get over this nostalgia real quick. LOL ]
"Grnbe21505" <grnbe...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010130174018...@ng-ce1.aol.com...
V-Man
>this"?
OR
This is your sector
OR
Keep security here
>The last one plus a circular motion pointing at that place as to designate
>an RV point?
Yes, but without the eye guesture, it means rally here on me.
>Both hands out wide waving forward mean spread out forward?
Assume a skirmish line
>Both hands palms down waving up and down means get down/take cover?
We take cover every time we stop moving, so a raised fist, the signal to
stop, usualy results in the patrol stopping and at least taking a knee behind
cover or concealment.
Otherwise, we do seem to have more in common that a language.
DeathBunny
modified rucksacks) have luminescent pale green pieces of plastic called
"cat's eyes" sewn to the back of them. It makes following easy at short
ranges and can't be seen from the front or (easily) from more than a couple
meters. Makes it easy to follow at night and can be covered or flipped
pretty easily to conceal them.
DeathBunny
The following is a series of sample packing lists (and their sources)....
other references would be FM 7-8, FM 21-? (the Foot March/Road march one)
and older editions of FM 21-15...
These also generally apply to basic riflemen...additional weapons and
equipment based on METT-T, like additional SAW ammo, Claymores, LAWS/M136's,
etc. are not included...
Some don't have weights on them yet...sorry.
But you'll get the idea.
The only "standard" list is only a starting point and is at the bottom
labeled: ARMY BASIC LOAD...
JUNGLE WARFARE BASIC PACKING LIST (50lbs max/CTC notes)
LBE:
Butt pack
2x 1-Quart canteens w/ covers
2x Ammo pouches
Insect Repellent (garlic pills)
Signal mirror (1/ squad)
VS-17 Panel
Compass (on person)
Map (on person)
Water purification tablets (2 bottles)
Survival knife
Flashlight
Heat tab (emergency sterilization)
Tweezers
Compress bandage (2 each)
Cravat (1 each)
RUCKSACK:
T-shirt (2 each)
Socks (3 pair)
BDU trousers (1 pair)
Poncho
Mosquito bar
Gloves
Waterproof bags (2 each)
2-Quart canteen w/ cover
E-tool, Machete (1/ fire team)
Weapon cleaning kit w/ extra CLP
IV kit, compress bandage (1 each), cravat (1 each)
Radio battery
3 days rations (stripped if MRE’s)
Personal hygiene items (unscented soap, foot powder, and razorblades)
550 cord, 30’-50’ (can substitute for sling ropes)
Snaplink
Sewing kit
Zip-loc bags
Trash bags (2 each)
Electrical tape (one roll per fire team)
GENERAL TIPS:
-Wrap hand mikes in a sock, then plastic. The sock absorbs any moisture
that gets through the plastic.
-A 550 cord “hand rail” from ORP to a site near the objective will assist
leader’s recon in returning to ORP rapidly. It also facilitates link-up if
the leader’s recon doesn’t have time to return to the ORP for any reason.
-Line M249 ammo cases with moleskin.
-Field strip MRE’s to reduce trash back haul.
-Use pre-rigged Claymores during the offense to aid in counter-recon
operations and during the defense to cover withdrawals.
-Ground all unnecessary equipment in the ORP prior to leader’s recon to
reduce noise.
-When clearing jungle huts, remember they are generally made of grass which
has little effect on grenade fragments, 5.56mm rounds, or 7.62mm rounds.
Only fire in the direction of the advance to avoid fratricide.
-M60/M240B tripods are extremely limited in value in the jungle, METT-T must
be applied.
-It is difficult to move more than 500m per hour.
-The average life of an AN/PRC-126 in the jungle during the rainy season is
roughly 2 weeks.
-Keep your compass and map on your person at all times. They are your basic
tools for a return to friendly lines.
-Have tracers as the last four or five rounds in each magazine. It will
give you a visual clue as to when you are running low on ammunition.
-Carry at least five bungee cords to construct field expedient shelters
quickly.
1st BRIGADE/ 6th INFANTRY DIVISION (ARCTIC LIGHT) DRB AUG ’96
SOLDIER:
Kevlar w/ woodland cover/glint tape 3.40
BDU’s 2.00
T-shirt, underwear, OD or Black wool socks 0.70
Black leather or Jungle boots 3.30
ID Tags and ID card -------
Protective mask, M40A1 in case (shoulder or hip) 4.00
Black gloves w/ OD wool liners 0.50
LBV w/ Pistol belt 2.54 14.51
1st Aid pouch w/ dressing (LF Belt) 0.10
Plastic 1-Qt. Canteen w/ cup and cover (R hip) 3.44
Arctic Canteen w/ cup and cover 3.80
Butt pack (determined by DRF-1 CO) 0.63
M9 Bayonet w/ sheath 2.00
A. RIFLE: 14.50
Weapon:
M16A2 w/ sling (unloaded) 7.50
-7 x 30rd Magazines (M855/FMJ) 1.00 7.00
B. PISTOL: 4.60
Weapon:
M9 Pistol (unloaded) 1.80
-3 x 15rd Magazine (9mm Ball) 0.60 1.80
M12 Nylon Holster (R hip) 0.69
Ammo Pouch 0.31
SUBTOTAL A (RIFLE LESS GRENADES): 27.01
SUBTOTAL B (PISTOL LESS GRENADES): 17.11
RUCKSACK:
ALICE pack, Large w/ frame 6.60 (Total: 44.87)
Brown T-shirt 0.20
2 x pair drawers 0.20
2 x pair wool socks 0.40
Waterproof bag 1.00
Weapon cleaning kit 0.60
Polypad (Top) 0.40
Poncho w/ liner 3.00
Leather work gloves, white 0.60
Wet weather suit 2.40
ECWCS Parka 1.00
E-tool w/ cover 2.52
Toiletries 2.00
2-Qt Canteen w/ cover 4.80
(Air items for Airborne)
2 DOS MRE’s 7.80
Laundry Bag (Cold weather items) 1.00 (Total:)12.95
Set, Polypropylene underwear 0.60
Balaclava, polypropylene, black 0.20
Extreme cold weather sleeping bag (OD) 9.50
ECWCS Pants 1.00
TF mittens w/ inserts 0.65
SUBTOTAL A/ APPROACH (RIFLE LESS GRENADES): 71.88
MINUS COLD WEATHER ITEMS: 58.93
SUBTOTAL B/ APPROACH (PISTOL LESS GRENADES): 61.98
MINUS COLD WEATHER ITEMS: 49.03
A-BAG:
Duffel Bag: 2.00 (Total: 29.60)
2 x sets BDU’s 4.00
4 x Brown T-shirts/4 x sets of drawers 1.20
Poncho, Insect bar/Insect head net 2.00
3 x pair wool socks 0.60
ICE pack / overshoes 8.00
Shower shoes, Civilian clothes 5.50
Set, polypropylene underwear and Balaclava 0.80
Black leather boots 3.30
BDU cap 0.20
Extra toiletries 2.00
TOTAL A (RIFLE LESS GRENADES, ETC): 101.48
TOTAL B (PISTOL LESS GRENADES, ETC): 91.58
NOTE: Flack vest TBD and not included.
1st BRIGADE/ 6th INFANTRY DIVISION (ARCTIC LIGHT) JRTC ’97
COMMERCIAL TRAVEL:
BDU’s
Soft Cap
Dog Tags
Black boots/Jungle boots
Weapon/sensitive items in laundry bag
Crew-served weapon belly loaded
MANEUVER BOX:
BDU’s
ID card
Cammo stick
Kevlar w/ cover and rank
Dog tags
Individual weapon (w/ BFA)
Contact gloves/work gloves
Protective mask, M40 with case
(MILES harness and halo)
LBV:
1st aid pack with dressing (left side) 7x M16 magazines
M9 Bayonet and sheath (right side) Ear plug case (left shoulder)
2x 1-Quart canteens with cases and cup Compass for leaders (RF belt)
(Note: LCE for units not issued vest)
Buttpack (Optional if not attached to an Infantry unit):
2x pair socks Weapons cleaning kit
Foot powder MRE
RUCKSACK W/ FRAME:
2-Quart canteen w/ cover (left side)
E-tool w/ cover (right side)
Wet weather bag
2x Ponchos
2x T-shirts
BDU’s
Toiletries (shaving kit, soap, toothpaste, toothbrush)
Wet weather suit
Poncho liner
Towel
Weapons cleaning kit (if not in buttpack)
Washcloth
4x pair socks
2x pair underwear
Polypad
Sleep shirt or poly pro top
A-BAG:
Sleeping bag
Waterproof bag
2x pair underwear
2x T-shirts
4x pair black socks
2 sets BDU’s
Insect bar and head net
1 set poly pro’s
1 set civvies
Boot shine kit
BDU cap
Towel
Overshoes
ICE pack MOPP suit (CPOG, helmet cover, M9 paper, M290 decon kit, mask
Filter, mask hood, overshoes, and gloves)
Gore-Tex top and bottom
Extra boots (winter)
Running shoes
PT uniform/sweats
2x pair white socks
Balaclava
Laundry bag
ARCTIC WARRIOR BATTALION, ARCTIC RAIDER (JULY 1997)
Field Uniform:
BDU’s T-shirt
Wool socks Underwear
Black boots
Dog tags
ID card
Contact gloves
Kevlar w/ cover and rank
NBC Mask w/ case
LBV:
1st aid pack w/ dressing (left front)
2x 1-Quart canteens w/ cover and cup
Buttpack (optional if not attached to an infantry unit):
1x pair wool socks Foot powder
RUCKSACK W/ FRAME:
Poncho w/ liner
4x pair wool socks
4x pair underwear
Poly pad
E-tool w/cover
Toiletries (razor, soap, toothpaste, foot powder, shaving cream)
Washcloth
Towel
Sleeping bag
Weapons cleaning kit
Polypro top and bottom
Waterproof bag
Balaclava
2-Quart canteen w/cover
4x T-shirts
Wet weather suit
Insect head net/ insect bar
A BAG:
Gore-Tex top and bottom
2x brown T-shirts
3x pair wool socks
BDU’s
Towel
BDU cap
ICE pack
Black boots
Overshoes
UNITS:
Echo Troop, 3rd Squadron/17th Cavalry
HHC 1st Brigade
Foxtrot Company, 110th Military Intelligence Battalion
Charlie Company, 41st Engineer Battalion
21st Signal Company?
1st BRIGADE, 6th INFANTRY DIVISION (ARCTIC LIGHT)
HELMETS
-550 cord to tie-down cammo band
-Battle roster number on inside on sticky tape
-Glint tape (2” x 2”) on top w/ Velcro
-Casualty statement/FMC on inside in zip-loc
RUCKSACK:
-Nametag/cat’s eyes on flap
-Sleep mat on top
-E-tool dummy corded w/ 2-Quart canteen strap under flap
-2-Quart canteen dummy corded to frame
-6 sandbags between frame/ruck
LBV:
-Buttpack
-Compass w/ pouch for leaders
-Bayonet
-2x 1-Quart canteens
ARMY BASIC LOAD, RIFLEMAN
FIGHTING LOAD (LESS WEAPON): 24.70
FIGHTING LOAD (ADD M9 BAYONET/M40 MASK): 25.80
Helmet, PAGST w/ cover 3.40
LBE: 19.70
Pistol belt w/ “Y” suspenders 1.60
1st Aid pouch w/ dressing
2 x 1-Qt canteens w/ covers 5.60
2 x Small arms cases 1.80
6 x 30rd Magazines (M855/FMJ) 5.40
M7 Bayonet w/ sheath 1.30
(M9 Bayonet w/ sheath 2.00)
4 x Grenade, fragmentation, M67 4.00
Protective mask, M17 w/ case and decontamination kit 3.00
(Protective mask, M40 w/ case and decontamination kit 4.00)
WEAPON: 8.80
Rifle, M16A2 w/ sling and loaded magazine 7.50 8.80
FIGHTING LOAD TOTAL: 34.90
FIGHTING LOAD TOTAL (ADD M9 BAYONET/M40 MASK): 36.00
APPROACH LOAD: 57.00
APPROACH LOAD (ADD M9 BAYONET/M40 MASK): 58.10
ALICE pack, medium w/ frame 6.30 22.10
Rations, MRE (2 each) 1.30 2.60
2-Qt canteen w/ cover 4.80
Toilet articles 2.00
Towel 0.20
Waterproof bag 0.80
E-tool w/ carrier 2.50
Poncho, nylon 1.30
Poncho liner 1.60
Note: 30% load for 190lbs
38% load for 150lbs
57% load for 100lbs
--
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism
while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
-W.R. Inge
"A democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding on what to have for lunch.
Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the results of the decision."
- Benjamin Franklin
"Run away! Run Away!"
-King Arthur, Monty Python's Search for the Holy Grail
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution
inevitable.
-- John F. Kennedy
"Jarno Nurminen" <jnur...@nic.ei_roskata.fi> wrote in message
news:USde6.3033$cF.6...@news1.nokia.com...
Toltori
you gotta be close enough anyhow, and no one wants to risk night blindness
(that is if they haven't got it already) to recharge them with a
flashlight. Sometimes you're just so damn busy making sure that you're not
getting thwacked by a branch that someone let go of, or that you don't trip
up, that the hand's easier (for me at least, I know when he's ducking, he
he). Never seen cat's eyes on a ruck though.
So those hand signals were essentially the same?
"DeathBunny" <todkan...@home.com> wrote in message
news:LEne6.186643$15.40...@news1.rdc1.az.home.com...
David Casey
> yep we have the same thing, but after a coupla hours they get pretty dim,
so
> you gotta be close enough anyhow, and no one wants to risk night blindness
> (that is if they haven't got it already) to recharge them with a
> flashlight. Sometimes you're just so damn busy making sure that you're
not
> getting thwacked by a branch that someone let go of, or that you don't
trip
> up, that the hand's easier (for me at least, I know when he's ducking, he
> he). Never seen cat's eyes on a ruck though.
During my PLDC at Grafenwoehr in March 1999, our SGL's would recharge the
cat eyes using the Army flashlight and no one would know we were using the
white light in the middle of the training area. All we'd do is cover the
cat eye with the flashlight, turn it on for a bit, turn it off and move to
the next one. BTW, our SGL's were an 11B and 11M.
Question: How would you be able to see the hand of the person in front of
you at night? When we did our night movements, it was *pitch* black and
even after being outside for several hours without white light in any form,
it was still quite difficult to see anything if it wasn't five feet in front
of you. It was a fun night. ;-)
Dave
Toltori
"David Casey" <david...@hotmail.dpc> wrote in message
news:t7mj2h2...@news.supernews.com...
Well that's what I was mumbling about being close enough to keep your hand
on the dude's shoulder, any further apart "tactical" comunications became
very difficult (read impossible), and our section commanders were pretty
strict about not talking and especially about not using white light. But we
would often wrap our hands around the end of a Mag-lite and hold it over the
cat's eyes. But you need to stop long enough to take your brain bucket
off... The only ppl who had those Military flashlights were the section
commanders and the guys who went out and bought them.
I apologise for my ignorance: 11B and 11M? SGL? It's amazing that most of
Canada's equipment is hand-me-downs from the US, but much of our jargon is
different.
I laughed when buddy talked about the 2 Lb radios, as the only radios I ever
saw/used were the same ones that you Americans used in Vietnam.
Those were what 15- 20 Lbs? I could just imagine all of us carrying one of
those... not. I remember one winter we did a forced march with our whole
platoon carrying those things on top of full battle dress (standard 50 Lbs),
I was at the rear, me and buddy at the front had to run up at every
intersection to block traffic. It was then I decided that recce would be
much better than machine gunner or comms; sure you run all day, but you keep
extra light kit. Doug was right about every pound turning into a shitload
of weight, but hey, you guys got it good. The majority of our guys still
wear metal helmets (again circa Vietnam), here you only get the good kit if
you go over seas. Not that I'm bitching, I can laugh about it right now :-)
DeathBunny
The US Radio you're probably talking about either the AN/PRC-25 or
AN/PRC-77, the primary differences are internal and they look alike... The
PRC-77, aka "Prick 77" was still in use by some units (and may still be in
our National Guard) until the mid-90's...
wt. (lbs)
Radio, AN/PRC 77 (RT841, 4” x 11” x11”, 484 cid, 5 mile range, 920 channels,
30MHz) 13.00
(to 75.95MHz)
-Battery Box (PRC-25/77, 4” x 3” x 11”, 132 cid)
0.75
-Support, Antenna (AB-591A)
0.75
-Antenna, (18” stowed, 3’ whip antenna)
0.50
-Antenna, (17” folded, 6 sections, 10’ whip)
0.75
-Harness, electrical equipment, ST-138/PRC 25
3.00
-Bag, cotton duck (Carries antennas and handset)
0.75
-Handset (H-198/GR or H-250/U)
1.20
-Magnesium Battery BA-4386/U ( approx. 60 hours)
-Battery, BA-398/U (used in arctic, approx. 24 hours)
From the TM (Technical Manual).
11B, 11M, 91B....US Army Military Occupational Specialty (MOS) codes...with
a number and an Additional Skill Identifier (ASI) it tells the Army what the
soldier can be assigned as.
11B1P =
11 Infantry
B Light Weapons
1 Skill Level 1: Private, PFC, Specialist, Corporal
Skill Level 2 is Sergeant
Skill Level 3 is Staff Sergeant
Etc...
P Parachute
R is Ranger, V is Airborne and Ranger. Those un-additionally
qualified are designated by a 0...
11M is an infantryman additionally trained on the Bradley Fighting Vehicle
and it's weapons,,,
SGL is a Small Group Leader, an experienced Sergeant or Staff Sergeant that
acts as an instructor for selected Specialists and Corporals during PLDC
(Primary Leadership Development Course), a 4 week course that's a
requirement to be promoted to Sergeant...
redc1c4
so much for progress. we've STILL got them, and NO
replacements in sight......
--
"Whenever we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that
virtue is not hereditary." --Thomas Paine
Toltori
> So, what is/was a standard Canadian "grunt's" load?
>
remember what everything was, I'm trying to get my hands on a "Warrior Pam"
Which I guess is what you'd call the infantryman's "field manual." for some
reason, all though it's a coiled bound book, it's still called a pamphlet.
Go figure, I'm sure the ppl who make this things are wiser than me, he he.
From the top of my head:
- Webbing
Butt pack - rain gear (pants, jacket), combat gloves(inner and outer), foot
powder, sunblock, change of socks, other small crap I can't remember (iodine
tabs for
water, hexamine tabs for cooking, bug juice etc) and sometimesdumb shit
like your combat sweater (despite it being the middle of July in one of the
hottest, most
humid areas of Canada), if you're on a course. Oh , yeah, plate, KFS, cam
stick
2 mag pouches, that would hold 2 mags each.
Canteen, cup/bowl that fits around base of canteen, and the stove used with
the above hex tabs.
Bayonette
C-9 (a 5.56mm LMG) mag pouch(a plastic box whch holds a coiled belt of
ammo), usually used for personal items, unless they give us ammo.
NBC mask, w/case
Pretty much seems the same as what Deathbunny wrote Except the "Kevlar w/
woodland cover/glint tape 3.40" <-- is this the helmet?
- Ruck sack
Change of clothes, 1 pr boots, combat pants, shirt, t-shirt(2), socks.
Combat jacket, if you're not wearing it.
Valise w/sleeping bag (inner and outer if winter) and half shelters
(essentially a ground sheet that has a zipper that lets you zip up with a
buddy to make a hoochie.
Self inflating air mattress with valise
Personal bath kit - razor, towel, etc
Like you we also have to have a sewing kit and would carry other items as
required, each platoon/section would distribute these items as they saw fit,
items like maps and compasses distributed pretty much only as needed. If we
were lucky we'd get the bug strips. Some things are different, e.g. field
dressings are always kept in the left leg cargo pocket. Of course you're
helmets on your head or webbing. C-7 rifle, if we had ammo it should be 1
mag n the rifle, 4 mags in pouches. Cleaning kit kept in the butt of the
rifle.
Items like the sewing kit, tactical coloured bungee cords (if you were on
course you needed to blacken/shine your boots too), were personal kit and
dealt with as you pleased as long as they were stowed.
Question 550 cord is what we call "para cord"?
The more I think about it, the more I remember, but that's basically it.
Sorry I'm not as detailed as yours, but this is just off the top of my head.
Is this what you wanted?
And yeah, "Prick" sounds right, and the more I let my mind at it, the more
Prick 77 sounds right to me.
In addition, many of our winter wool clothing looks like something out of a
MASH episiode, I like 'em though, I'm sure Canada used some of the same
contractors or maybe bought up surplus stock after the US cancelled
contracts.
Do you have an SG:L only on course? Or is he like one of our Section
commanders? A section is 6 NCMs with 2 NCOs, should be a Sgt. as Section
Commander, with an Master Corporal as his 2IC.
DeathBunny
news:tFUe6.5414$t94....@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com...
>
> "DeathBunny" <todkan...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:uLKe6.188891$15.41...@news1.rdc1.az.home.com...
> > So, what is/was a standard Canadian "grunt's" load?
> >
> You know, since I'm reenlisting I've been going over every detail trying
to
> remember what everything was, I'm trying to get my hands on a "Warrior
Pam"
> Which I guess is what you'd call the infantryman's "field manual." for
some
> reason, all though it's a coiled bound book, it's still called a pamphlet.
> Go figure, I'm sure the ppl who make this things are wiser than me, he he.
>
You should see what the US Army calls "Graphic Training Aids"
(GTA)...everything from little pocket cards with General Orders to
boardgames and huge (probably 2:1 scale) plastc cutaway M16...
> From the top of my head:
>
> - Webbing
> Butt pack - rain gear (pants, jacket), combat gloves(inner and outer),
foot
> powder, sunblock, change of socks, other small crap I can't remember
(iodine
> tabs for
> water, hexamine tabs for cooking, bug juice etc) and sometimesdumb shit
> like your combat sweater (despite it being the middle of July in one of
the
> hottest, most
> humid areas of Canada), if you're on a course. Oh , yeah, plate, KFS,
Knife, Fork, Spoon?
>cam
> stick
> 2 mag pouches, that would hold 2 mags each.
> Canteen, cup/bowl that fits around base of canteen, and the stove used
with
> the above hex tabs.
> Bayonette
> C-9 (a 5.56mm LMG) mag pouch(a plastic box whch holds a coiled belt of
> ammo), usually used for personal items, unless they give us ammo.
> NBC mask, w/case
>
> Pretty much seems the same as what Deathbunny wrote Except the "Kevlar
w/
> woodland cover/glint tape 3.40" <-- is this the helmet?
>
Yup, the helmet. The helmet is Kevlar and (now*) always covered with a
cloth cover in either woodland cammo (like our BDU's), desert, or white
(Arctic). "Glint" tape is an off-white color plastic covered sheet that
shows up real well on thermal imagers...for ID purposes.
(* direct sunlight degrades Kevlar)
> - Ruck sack
> Change of clothes, 1 pr boots, combat pants, shirt, t-shirt(2), socks.
> Combat jacket, if you're not wearing it.
> Valise w/sleeping bag (inner and outer if winter) and half shelters
> (essentially a ground sheet that has a zipper that lets you zip up with a
> buddy to make a hoochie.
Ours have snaps and you can attach your poncho to one and get an almost
complete shelter by yourself...
...our design probably dates to the end of last century except the snaps.
> Self inflating air mattress with valise
We get a closed-cell foam "poly-pads" that roll up. Not so easy to stow,
but they don't go flat and work well in the cold.
> Personal bath kit - razor, towel, etc
>
>
> Like you we also have to have a sewing kit and would carry other items as
> required, each platoon/section would distribute these items as they saw
fit,
> items like maps and compasses distributed pretty much only as needed. If
we
> were lucky we'd get the bug strips. Some things are different, e.g. field
> dressings are always kept in the left leg cargo pocket.
For us, it's common in some units to put additional first aid dressings in
the bottom of the ammo pouch to make it easier to pull magazines free...
Also, one per squad in most units, gets a "Combat Lifesaver Bag" with
additional First Aid Supplies in a nifty shoulder bag people like to
appropriate for other uses... (Includes ore dressings, 1000cc's od IV fluid
and tubing etc. Aspirin, additional NBC injectors, tape, etc.)
Of course you're
> helmets on your head or webbing. C-7 rifle, if we had ammo it should be 1
> mag n the rifle, 4 mags in pouches.
5 x 30 rounds?
If you had a "go-to-war" load, would you carry more?
...more magazines?
...more in a banndoleer (ours come packaged 8 clips of 10 rounds each and a
loader to make it easy to put the ammo in the magazines, IIRC).
...or strip apart C9 belts?
(BTW, a US Rifleman's Basic Load is 7 magazines...and he'll probably get
additional bandoleers)
>Cleaning kit kept in the butt of the
> rifle.
> Items like the sewing kit, tactical coloured bungee cords (if you were on
> course you needed to blacken/shine your boots too), were personal kit and
> dealt with as you pleased as long as they were stowed.
>
> Question 550 cord is what we call "para cord"?
Yup, 550-pound test parachute line typically in green or white...
>
> The more I think about it, the more I remember, but that's basically it.
> Sorry I'm not as detailed as yours, but this is just off the top of my
head.
> Is this what you wanted?
Yup, and I copied out of several field manuals and packing lists for field
problems I had on hand so it was easier to be more exact...
>
> And yeah, "Prick" sounds right, and the more I let my mind at it, the more
> Prick 77 sounds right to me.
> In addition, many of our winter wool clothing looks like something out of
a
> MASH episiode, I like 'em though, I'm sure Canada used some of the same
> contractors or maybe bought up surplus stock after the US cancelled
> contracts.
>
From what I got to use of them, PRC-77's were pretty reliable, simple, and
hard to screw up. The SINCGARS (it's replacement) OTOH, can get complicated
depending on what you want to do with it... and the weights the same or
more...
(Of course, when you had the weight of the..."scrambler"...called a VINSON
to it, the PRC-77's heavier...)
> Do you have an SG:L only on course? Or is he like one of our Section
> commanders? A section is 6 NCMs with 2 NCOs, should be a Sgt. as Section
> Commander, with an Master Corporal as his 2IC.
>
SGL's teach Specialists/Corporals (same pay grade) to be proper NCO's and
are not found in units.
NCO training in units are a function of the NCO "Support Chain" (i.e.
Squad/Section Leaders, Platoon Sergeants, First Sergeants (of Companies,
Batteries, and Troops) and Command Sergeant Majors (of Battalions, Brigades,
Squadrons, Divisions, etc.))
TOE's (Table of Organization and Equipment) differ from Infantry unit type
to type, but a Light Infantry Squad Typically Has a Staff Sergeant Squad
Leader, 2 Fire Teams led by either a Sergeant or Corporal.
(For NCO positions, they can be one rank higher or one rank lower in that
position...i.e. Sergeant Squad Leaders. They don't usually go higher at
squad level though i.e. Staff Sergeant Fire Team leaders.)
Fire Teams have 4 men each (including the leader) for a Squad Total of 9.
Non-NCO's are Privates, PFC's, or Specialists.
(The next links are from the US Army Digital Library)
This link is a reference for non-mechanized (i.e. 11B-type) Infantry
units..,
http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/7-8/toc.htm
This link has diagrams of the different Platoon types:
http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/7-8/appa.htm
Reference for M113-type Mechanized Infantry Platoon...
http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/7-7/toc.htm
and Bradley-mounted infantry...
http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/7-7J/toc.htm
Specific link to (current?) Bradley Platoon TOE:
http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/7-7J/Appa.htm#top
Light Company Level Organization Diagrams:
http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/7-10/ch1.htm#c1p17
peter-lyons
During these orders he details what hand signals mean what action. This is
done before every patrol just to make sure that every man in that patrol is
singing off the same song sheet. It might get boring after the tenth
patrol, but much less boring that an eternity dead because you misunderstood
'get down', and ran forward!!!
"DeathBunny" <todkan...@home.com> wrote in message
news:hIyd6.178087$15.39...@news1.rdc1.az.home.com...
> Hand signals can be anything THE ENTIRE UNIT agrees on...
>
> ...usually reasonably standardized by being a general infantry type-task
and
> taught to trainees before they get to their unit (who probably modifies
> them...)
>
> A "headcount" signal appears in the US Army that basically is a way to
make
> sure everyone is there. It's given and then returned to the leader with
the
> number of people in the unit behind him...so he knows if someone's missing
> and can ensure everyone's alert...
>
> --
> "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism
> while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
> -W.R. Inge
>
> "A democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding on what to have for lunch.
> Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the results of the decision."
> - Benjamin Franklin
>
> "Run away! Run Away!"
> -King Arthur, Monty Python's Search for the Holy Grail
>
> Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution
> inevitable.
> -- John F. Kennedy
> "John Parkinson" <jay...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
> news:UVxd6.93544$xW4.7...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> > I always see them being used by combat patrols in the movies and was
> > wondering:
> >
> > Are hand signals generic and used the same way by armed forces the world
> > over, or do different countries have there own specific set of signals?
I
> > can see pros and cons for both possibilities.
> >
> > Is there some sort of protocol when in silent patrol to ensure that the
> > signal given at the front of the patrol reaches and is understood by the
> > rear of the patrol?
> >
> > If the protocol is simply "keep visual contact with the guy in front of
> > you", what happens if the guy at the back is the guy that senses the
need
> to
> > stop and drop? I recall reading in Bravo Two Zero that the SAS patrol
got
> > separated because the messages were coming from the back and not
reaching
> > the front of the patrol.
> >
> > Can anyone recommend a book or web-site on military hand signals?
> >
> > Fanx in advance.
> >
> > Regards,
> > John
> >
> >
>
>
DeathBunny
all of them did that...ensuring all his troops were on the same page.
Toltori
> You should see what the US Army calls "Graphic Training Aids"
> (GTA)...everything from little pocket cards with General Orders to
> boardgames and huge (probably 2:1 scale) plastc cutaway M16...
>
our SRAW Light (I think the US designation is M72 or M92?), is manufactured
by the US and is the only weapon I've ever seen which ahs instrctions
printed on the side, with pictures, he he
>
> Knife, Fork, Spoon?
>
Yes.
>
> Yup, the helmet. The helmet is Kevlar and (now*) always covered with a
> cloth cover in either woodland cammo (like our BDU's), desert, or white
> (Arctic). "Glint" tape is an off-white color plastic covered sheet that
> shows up real well on thermal imagers...for ID purposes.
>
> (* direct sunlight degrades Kevlar)
>
You have to go over seas to get the kevlar helmets here. Like all the good
kit. This tape is off white? It's not used in tactical situations, is it?
Or does it not mess with your cam?
.
>
> Ours have snaps and you can attach your poncho to one and get an almost
> complete shelter by yourself...
>
> ...our design probably dates to the end of last century except the snaps.
>
A lot of our guys like to use "ranger blankets" instead of sleeping bags
(when the weather permits), and it's actually one of your uncut poncho
liners. Some ppl don't mind the extra weight for the convenience of packing
up easy.
> > Self inflating air mattress with valise
>
> We get a closed-cell foam "poly-pads" that roll up. Not so easy to stow,
> but they don't go flat and work well in the cold.
>
I found my matress ok, didn't go too flat, but really, it only had to last
until I was asleep, after that I couldn't care less.
>
> 5 x 30 rounds?
>
> If you had a "go-to-war" load, would you carry more?
>
> ...more magazines?
>
> ...more in a banndoleer (ours come packaged 8 clips of 10 rounds each and
a
> loader to make it easy to put the ammo in the magazines, IIRC).
>
> ...or strip apart C9 belts?
>
5x30, yes. usually plastic mags.
Probably all of the above, I would hope that we'd carry as much as we could
bear. We have the same speed loaders, they wind up in a lot of ppl's
personal kit. We'd prolly avoid stripping the C9 belts, he's pretty
important. I recall getting stuck with a few boxes of ammo in my butt pack
on this one ambush we were setting, trudging through knee deep snow, with a
wonderful unscheduled scenic route provided by the sir.
> (BTW, a US Rifleman's Basic Load is 7 magazines...and he'll probably get
> additional bandoleers)
>
> From what I got to use of them, PRC-77's were pretty reliable, simple, and
> hard to screw up. The SINCGARS (it's replacement) OTOH, can get
complicated
> depending on what you want to do with it... and the weights the same or
> more...
>
> (Of course, when you had the weight of the..."scrambler"...called a VINSON
> to it, the PRC-77's heavier...)
I was out drinking with a buddy last night, I was right, it was the PRC-77
I'm sure they must be dependable, or they would have had no excuse to nix
the deal for the new equipment back in the early 90's, theother nice thing
is you can pick up televisions stations too.
As for the other info, I went into overload, I've got to go through it and
imagin how it paralels our system so I can get it. I will work it through
though.
Or maybe it's the hangover?
RTO Trainer
<red...@drunkenbastards.org.ies> deposited in this place with great
ceremony:
>DeathBunny wrote:
We only just got rid of ours a little over a year ago.
PRC-119A is much nicer than PRC-77.
We'll be getting E models sometime in a two year window.
I *love* being in an Enhanced Brigade.
Taylor
The new radios are called ASIPs, 'bout the size of a VINSON (battery box
internal)
DeathBunny
"Toltori" <tol...@psynet.net> wrote in message
news:GXkf6.14595$t94.2...@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com...
>
> > You should see what the US Army calls "Graphic Training Aids"
> > (GTA)...everything from little pocket cards with General Orders to
> > boardgames and huge (probably 2:1 scale) plastc cutaway M16...
> >
> I'd like to see the plastic M16, I've seen some of the US instuctions
stuff,
> our SRAW Light (I think the US designation is M72 or M92?), is
manufactured
> by the US and is the only weapon I've ever seen which ahs instrctions
> printed on the side, with pictures, he he
In the US Army, if it it's important and they don't drill it into you until
you know it...it tends to come with instructions. Tents, AT weapons, mines,
etc.
> >
> > Yup, the helmet. The helmet is Kevlar and (now*) always covered with a
> > cloth cover in either woodland cammo (like our BDU's), desert, or white
> > (Arctic). "Glint" tape is an off-white color plastic covered sheet that
> > shows up real well on thermal imagers...for ID purposes.
> >
> > (* direct sunlight degrades Kevlar)
> >
> You have to go over seas to get the kevlar helmets here. Like all the good
> kit. This tape is off white? It's not used in tactical situations, is
it?
> Or does it not mess with your cam?
> .
It's especially for tactical situations. It's taped to the top of the K-pot
(aka Kevlar) and isn't that visible from the sides. It's sort of
tannish-white, IIRC, and it's one way to help keep from getting lit-up by
friendly helicopters and aircraft...
> >
> > Ours have snaps and you can attach your poncho to one and get an almost
> > complete shelter by yourself...
> >
> > ...our design probably dates to the end of last century except the
snaps.
> >
>
> A lot of our guys like to use "ranger blankets" instead of sleeping bags
> (when the weather permits), and it's actually one of your uncut poncho
> liners. Some ppl don't mind the extra weight for the convenience of
packing
> up easy.
>
As a medic, we got "Casualty blankets" that are shiny silver on one side and
OD tarp-like plastic on the other. If you lace one inbetween a poncho and
poncho liner it's good for a couple more degrees.
> > > Self inflating air mattress with valise
> >
> > We get a closed-cell foam "poly-pads" that roll up. Not so easy to
stow,
> > but they don't go flat and work well in the cold.
> >
>
> I found my matress ok, didn't go too flat, but really, it only had to last
> until I was asleep, after that I couldn't care less.
>
In Alaska, as part of our cold weather training, the first week it fell
below -10 degrees (Fahrenheight) anyone new slept out in the snow... one
poncho underneath as a ground cloth, the poly-pad, an extreme cold weather
sleeping bag lined with a poncho liner, then a second poncho over the top...
pretty comfortable after you were in for a while, I rolled off my poly pad
onto just the poncho and boy did I feel that!
(Of course, when I spent one winter NTC in Fort Irwin California and slept
inside an Ammo Vehicle (FAASV) I really appreciated that pad...armor gets
cold.)
The new US radios cover all the same frequencies as the old...spaced a
little closer...and you can set it to scan so you can listen to the TV and
not miss any calls for you...as long as you don't have it Frequency Hopping.
>
> As for the other info, I went into overload, I've got to go through it and
> imagin how it paralels our system so I can get it. I will work it through
> though.
> Or maybe it's the hangover?
>
RTO Trainer
deposited in this place with great ceremony:
>> Valise w/sleeping bag (inner and outer if winter) and half shelters
>> (essentially a ground sheet that has a zipper that lets you zip up with a
>> buddy to make a hoochie.
>
>Ours have snaps and you can attach your poncho to one and get an almost
>complete shelter by yourself...
>
>...our design probably dates to the end of last century except the snaps.
>
Have you seen the new modular sleeping bags?
Has three components: brown light weight bag (temperate), a black
heavier bag (cold), and what's called a bivvy (bivouack) cover
(camouflage). All three components can snapp together. Brown into
black for extreme cold weather (-30) and the bivvy cover is
waterproof.
Slept in one in a driving rain. Stayed warm and dry.
RTO Trainer
deposited in this place with great ceremony:
>> And yeah, "Prick" sounds right, and the more I let my mind at it, the more
>> Prick 77 sounds right to me.
>> In addition, many of our winter wool clothing looks like something out of
>a
>> MASH episiode, I like 'em though, I'm sure Canada used some of the same
>> contractors or maybe bought up surplus stock after the US cancelled
>> contracts.
>>
>
>From what I got to use of them, PRC-77's were pretty reliable, simple, and
>hard to screw up. The SINCGARS (it's replacement) OTOH, can get complicated
>depending on what you want to do with it... and the weights the same or
>more...
>
>(Of course, when you had the weight of the..."scrambler"...called a VINSON
>to it, the PRC-77's heavier...)
The SINCGARS manpack PRC-119A is quite a bit lighter than the PRC-77.
Almost half. E model is almost half again.
RTO Trainer
deposited in this place with great ceremony:
>jeez... you're just getting the 119A??
>
>The new radios are called ASIPs, 'bout the size of a VINSON (battery box
>internal)
>
>
Yep. That's the E model RT I was refering to. (RT-1523E(C)/U)
And in manpack configuration its still a PRC-119A.
DeathBunny
--
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism
while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
-W.R. Inge
"A democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding on what to have for lunch.
Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the results of the decision."
- Benjamin Franklin
"Run away! Run Away!"
-King Arthur, Monty Python's Search for the Holy Grail
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution
inevitable.
-- John F. Kennedy
"RTO Trainer" <rww...@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:3a7f4f94....@news.earthlink.net...
V-Man
>OD tarp-like plastic on the other. If you lace one inbetween a poncho and
>poncho liner it's good for a couple more degrees.
Summer of 87, I was a casualty (simulated) during a Division Leder's FTX. I
got to see one of those blankets, and later, the Soldier Fairy left one in my
ruck. It was so nice the next winter, during a 10 winter exercise.
Jarno Nurminen
>>As a medic, we got "Casualty blankets" that are shiny silver on one side
and
>>OD tarp-like plastic on the other. If you lace one inbetween a poncho and
>>poncho liner it's good for a couple more degrees.
> Summer of 87, I was a casualty (simulated) during a Division Leder's FTX.
I
>got to see one of those blankets, and later, the Soldier Fairy left one in
my
>ruck. It was so nice the next winter, during a 10 winter exercise.
I think we call those "space blankets"...I've always been wondering how it
would feel to use one of those while sleeping outside. If you'd just dig a
hole in the snow, put the sleeping bag on you, wrap youself into that space
blanket and cover yourself with snow...Though it migh be a rude awakening at
the morning in -20 celcius degrees ;)
- Jarno
billh
"redc1c4"
> near as i can tell, Reserve Component COMSEC gear is designed to sit on
> a shelf and be counted once a month...... %-)
Ahhhh. The "aging rooms". I've heard of them.
JF
We used to have a PRC E-8.
RTO Trainer
deposited in this place with great ceremony:
>
>
>We used to have a PRC E-8.
Who didn't?
At my first AT I watched some of the others send a E-5 (little dim) to
the TOC to ask for a PRC E-8.
RTO Trainer
31U, OKARNG 45th SIB
Always Forward!
"An Army without leaders is like a foot without a big toe..."
--PVT John Winger
Det2
<red...@drunkenbastards.org.ies> wrote:
>Det2 wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 03 Feb 2001 07:40:49 GMT, redc1c4
>> <red...@drunkenbastards.org.ies> wrote:
>>
>> >so much for progress. we've STILL got them, and NO
>> >replacements in sight......
>>
>> We got our VRC-90's last fall.....
>>
>> Now I just need comsec fills so we can use them as
>> designed.
>
>near as i can tell, Reserve Component COMSEC gear is designed to sit on
>a shelf and be counted once a month...... %-)
>
We keep the radio's locked in the mounts in the
rigs.
But have to keep the ANCD(empty) in a locked safe
drawer.
They passed us over for the CLRT-X so I should be
able to send a copy of the database sometime next
week....
SSG Paul D. Carrier
Readiness NCO (63H & 45K)
Det 2 Co. B 145 SPT BN
Camp Withycombe, Clackamas OR
Det2
rww...@netzero.net (RTO Trainer) wrote:
>On Wed, 07 Feb 2001 04:19:50 GMT, paul...@teleport.com (Det2)
>deposited in this place with great ceremony:
>
>>On Sat, 03 Feb 2001 07:40:49 GMT, redc1c4
>><red...@drunkenbastards.org.ies> wrote:
>>
>>>so much for progress. we've STILL got them, and NO
>>>replacements in sight......
>>
>>
>>We got our VRC-90's last fall.....
>>
>>Now I just need comsec fills so we can use them as
>>designed.
>>
>Your Brigade or Division Commo Chief is responsible for that.
>
>However, if you need it, I have an" Unclassified For Training" fill on
>disk I can send you.
>
>Do you have ANCDs and a DTD cable to connect the ANCD to a PC?
>
>
YES PLEASE !
My brigade here in Oreogn is a TC unit, my higher
is in Idaho and they can't get thier AT opord out
before May. For a June AT.
I have ANCD's but not the cable to connect to a
PC. Do you have the NSN ?
>RTO Trainer
>31U, OKARNG 45th SIB
>Always Forward!
>
>"An Army without leaders is like a foot without a big toe..."
> --PVT John Winger
SSG Paul D. Carrier
RTO Trainer
deposited in this place with great ceremony:
>YES PLEASE !
>
>My brigade here in Oreogn is a TC unit, my higher
>is in Idaho and they can't get thier AT opord out
>before May. For a June AT.
>
>I have ANCD's but not the cable to connect to a
>PC. Do you have the NSN ?
>
DTD Fill Cable (ANCD) 18in
5995-01-379-9689
Cost roughly $45.
I can give you the pinouts to fabricate a make-do from a W-4 cable and
a 9 pin connector you can get at Radio Shack too if you need.
If you want the training fill just e-mail me a mailing address.
Gary J. Harris
Don't know if this isthe same system but he bears taking a look at.
Read the newsletters in the archive for a lot of good gouge.
Steve Taylor wrote:
>
> The ones we have are basically the same, cept' the light weight bag is green
> and called a patrol bag. But the order is black inside, followed by green,
> then the bivvy. Don't seem to have the room in them though.