Veterans should salute U.S. flag
I gathered some 16 of myoid military friends who agreed to sponsor a
movement for veterans to salute rather than place their hands over their
heart when honoring the flag, fallen comrades, and/or the country.
I have some from each of the four principal services.
Three of them are former vice chiefs or assistant comman苓ants of their
services, and several are former CINCs.
We refer to saluting when we do the pledge to the flag, when the National
Colors pass or are presented, when the National Anthem or honors are played,
or when Taps is played and firing squads or guns render honors.
Majority favor saluting
We got MOM Magazine to ask veterans what they preferred: Hand over the heart
or saluting. When last I looked, some 583 veteran respondents had voted 81
per苞ent in favor of the salute.
In addition, my email address was in the questionnaire and I've had about
ISO responses, with all but a dozen or so in favor of the salute.
Obviously, an overwhelming majority of the veterans want to salute.
There are no regulations telling us veterans what we can and can't do in
this matter. If we decide we want to salute, who will dare to tell us "no?"
It is a matter of per貞onal choice. We've earned the right to render a
salute.
Now the challenge is to get the word out. I believe the unit and branch
associations are the best way. The com衫anders of the American Legion and
VFW never answered my emails, presuming they even got them.
If we can get this started, it will take on a life of its own. Those who
object can continue the hand over the heart thing. Gradually the custom will
change, as well it should.
Just imagine thousands of fans saluting at NFL, MBA, and Major League
Baseball games when the National Anthem is played.
Saluting would send message
It will telegraph a message to all others of how many have served this
country in the Armed Forces; it will be a positive and patriotic message.
You can help by putting the word out in your organiza負ion, which is made up
of patriots like you and me.
Retired Maj. Gen. Vernon B. Lewis Karnack, TX
"I salute you Red"
Semper Fidelis
"redjacket" <redj...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:HLadnRKUxZYrzhnZ...@adelphia.com...
"Snipervet91" <skys...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:Dm_gg.5177$9f2.3568@trnddc04...
> Its an idea.
>
>
> "Snipervet91" <skys...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:Dm_gg.5177$9f2.3568@trnddc04...
>
>>"Roger your last Red Jacket...the salute sounds great to me, we are
>>saluting our fallen brothers when we salute the colors"!
>>
>>
>>"I salute you Red"
>>Semper Fidelis
>>
What is the difference? Salute or devoting your heart?
What is the difference, Howard?
Of course a stretched out stiff arm, or a stiff arm to the forehead is
more impressive, than putting ones hand to his heart. I understand that.
Does dapra suffer from hair on his palms ?
"dapra" <dap...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:PMKdnZW8O5PckxjZ...@comcast.com...
> Perhaps its why you wish to hide something, dapra ?
>
> Does dapra suffer from hair on his palms ?
>
I see no connections to my post. You made some idiotic remarks. Top
posted, of course, to make it more clear where you are coming from.
I think we all know you made this moron post of a stiff arm salute.
Your posts have been disgusting.
I only want you to know that sonny boy.
"dapra" <dap...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:c6SdnW_hzda_hRjZ...@comcast.com...
Dapra, with all due respect, you have shown yourself once again to be
culturally insensitive by *your* remarks. Remember you're posting on a
couple of U.S. military groups.
"La N" <nilita20...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:g9ghg.13288$771.4394@edtnps89...
"redjacket" <redj...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:N4OdnQvBT72-DBjZ...@adelphia.com...
Well. I'm waiting for parts to come in then I can stay away from the bugs
in here.
It gets worse every week and is too boring.
No discussions anymore only Bush Nazi crap day in and day out.
Don't these people have a life ?
Non vets in a vets group calling people names everyday.
Sheeesh.
I'll put darp in a kf too. He needs to get laid or take new meds or
something.
"La N" <nilita20...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:akghg.13292$771.8687@edtnps89...
It all gives me a headache at times when I just want fun and entertainment
... %)
btw, boss, office ordered me more study materials which came in yesterday -
tons o' stuff - which will keep me x-tremely busy for the foreseen future
... :(. They want me to be even more brilliant than I am in a particular
field. But at least I don't have to write any more tests, as I've already
achieved the requisite alphabet soup.
Ah! next year I have to write re-certification exams in my other field, the
certification which originates in your fair country, in Arlington, VA, to be
specific.
But mebbe before then I'll win the lottery? My dream is to have a home on
a patch of land near nature with a gazebo in the yard. Lots of books. And
music.
- nil
"redjacket" <redj...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:xaSdne1eWP_GOhjZ...@adelphia.com...
I did not call Haward a Nazi, a Roman or a member of various other
nations used the "stretched out stiff arm" salute. Your guilt ridden,
defensive mind must have made this connection.
Read my post! It's redjacket's wild imagination to interpret it the way
he did.
You have a 1: 8,000,000,000,000,035
chance to win $50.00 USD !
YES YOU !
Welcome to The Kon Tiki Bar Lounge Territorial Prison
and Rifle Range w/NYS Lottery tickets sold inside.
Ask for Shania Zulu , she's the 6'4" Barkeep.
Beefeater's Gin & Tonic w/twist 'o Lime please !
Its the house drink.
" And, clear that weapon at the door !"
( headache eh ? We sell 222's also.)
"La N" <nilita20...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5Uhhg.13819$771.7634@edtnps89...
It sounded like a Nazi reference to me too. So obviously RJ and I were both
misinterpreting.
- nil
- nil
"redjacket" <redj...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:kMudnR7b_twmWhjZ...@adelphia.com...
If I didn't have dapra killfiled, I might explain such issues as recognizing
service, a reminder of social responsibility, etc. It wouldn't do any good,
since he's so wrapped in hatred and self-righteousness as to be unable to
hear any concepts outside his particular brand of Marxist analysis.
Don't flatter yourself, Darpa, to assume that I believe you to be expert in
the dialectic of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. I was thinking more of
Harpo.
Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing more scholarly comparisons of tthe Bush
administration's actions with the Hegelian leader principle, which
manifested itself in various totalitarian movements before it was adopted as
the Fuehrerprinzip of the Third Reich. Scholarly, however, does not imply
random namecalling, but a careful philosophical and historical review, the
sort of which specific analysis that Mike Godwin blessed.
> Don't these people have a life ?
> Non vets in a vets group calling people names everyday.
There, of course, you have Dapra's anger getting in the way of making what
even may be a point. Wreathed in self-righteousness, he turns off listeners
with jargon and cheap shots.
> But mebbe before then I'll win the lottery? My dream is to have a home
on
> a patch of land near nature with a gazebo in the yard. Lots of books.
And
> music.
Gazebo?
"
Let us cast our minds back to the early days of fantasy role-playing... In
the early '70s, Ed Whitechurch ran "his game," and one of the participants
was Eric Sorenson, a veritable giant of a man. This story is essentially
true: I knew both Ed and Eric, and neither denies it (although Eric, for
reasons that will become apparent, never repeats it).
The gist of it is that Eric... well, you need a bit more about Eric.
Eric comes quite close to being a computer. When he games, he methodically
considers each possibility before choosing his preferred option. If given
time, he will invariably pick the optimum solution. It has been known to
take weeks. He is otherwise in all respects a superior gamer, and I've spent
many happy hours competing with and against him, as long as he is given
enough time.
So... Eric was playing a neutral paladin (Why should only lawful, good
religions get to have holy warriors? was the rationale) in Ed's game. He
even had a holy sword, which fought well and did all those things holy
swords are supposed to do, including good or evil (by random die roll). He
was on some lord's lands when the following exchange occurred:
ED: You see a well-groomed garden. In the middle, on a small hill, you see a
gazebo.
ERIC: A gazebo? What color is it?
ED: (Pause) It's white, Eric.
ERIC: How far away is it?
ED: About 50 yards.
ERIC: How big is it?
ED: (Pause) It's about 30 feet across, 15 feet high, with a pointed top.
ERIC: I use my sword to detect whether it's good.
ED: It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo!
ERIC: (Pause) I call out to it.
ED: It won't answer. It's a gazebo!
ERIC: (Pause) I sheathe my sword and draw my bow and arrows. Does it respond
in any way?
ED: No, Eric. It's a gazebo!
ERIC: I shoot it with my bow (rolls to hit). What happened?
ED: There is now a gazebo with an arrow sticking out of it.
ERIC: (Pause) Wasn't it wounded?
ED: Of course not, Eric! It's a gazebo!
ERIC: (Whimper) But that was a plus-three arrow!
ED: It's a gazebo, Eric, a gazebo! If you really want to try to destroy it,
you could try to chop it wih an axe, I suppose, or you could try to burn it,
but I don't know why anybody would even try. It's a @#%$*& gazebo!
ERIC: (Long pause - he has no axe or fire spells) I run away.
ED: (Thoroughly frustrated) It's too late. You've awakened the gazebo, and
it catches you and eats you.
ERIC: (Reaching for his dice) Maybe I'll roll up a fire-using mage so I can
avenge my paladin...
At this point, the increasingly amused fellow party members restored a
modicum of order by explaining what a gazebo is. This is solely an
afterthought, of course, but Eric is doubly lucky that the gazebo was not
situated on a grassy gnoll."
Mind you, I played in a campaign whose dyslexic Dungeonmistress told us of
an encounter with a giant garbanzo.
Few of which were democracies.
> > Your guilt ridden, defensive
> > mind must have made this connection.
> >
>
> It sounded like a Nazi reference to me too. So obviously RJ and I were
both
> misinterpreting.
>
No, I think it's that Dapra doesn't take responsibility for unambiguous
writing -- and I'm not willing to give him the cheap shot of falling back to
the salute of the Roman legions.
/Head/Desk/
Jayzus Murphy, Howard. I *do* believe you are the anti-christ with your
damned puns!
Here's how it really goes:
Picture *moi* lying in a hammock in my gazebo, trying to finish off the book
_Cobra II_, I'm nibbling on strawberries and sipping a silly playful
Chardonnay. Jack Linthicum isn't around to recommend a
vintage more to my (new) style of living.
When hark! I hear la voce dulce of my favourite tenor .....
Gi la sento,
gi la sento morire,
per calma sembra voglia dormire;
poi con gli occhi
lei mi viene a cercare,
poi si toglie
anche l'ultimo velo,
anche l'ultimo cielo,
anche l'ultimo bacio.
Ah, forse colpa mia,
ah, forse colpa tua,
e cos sono rimasto a pensare.
Ahhh ... Romanza .... it's my beloved Andrea Bocelli ..... and he's sucking
on my toes between stanzas ....
Well, you get the drift.
- nilita
"La N" <nilita20...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%vkhg.21585$S61.5588@edtnps90...
Haward, you neglected to see, that I did NOT deny that a "stretched out
stiff arm" salute can be associated with the Nazis, and probably most
people do associate it with them.
So your charge of "Dapra doesn't take responsibility..." is unfounded.
You are knocking off a straw man. I only pointed out that it could be a
reference to others too.
What I found astonishing is redjacket's jump to his conclusion.
Here is the original exchange, adding some nations to satisfy
redjacket's imagination;
"Haward; I like it. {salute instead of hand over heart}
dapra; What is the difference, Howard?
Of course a stretched out stiff arm, [what the Nazies used], or a stiff
arm to the forehead [used by the Soviets and Americans] is more
impressive, than putting ones hand to his heart. I understand that."
How would that justify jumping to the conclusion of;
"redjacket; He's calling Howard a Nazi, LaN."
You mean a salute conveys that, and a hand to heart do not?
>
> It wouldn't do any good,
> since he's so wrapped in hatred and self-righteousness as to be unable to
> hear any concepts outside his particular brand of Marxist analysis.
>
It hard to understand what salute vs hand to hart has to do with
Marxism. But you usually trot out your ad hominem. Oh, you forgot the
political commissar.
> ....I don't know why dapra ... even
> participates on military groups. He is just going to set himself up for
> karmaic abuse.
>
You must be familiar with the statistics, that about 70% of the soldiers
believe that Saddam was behind 911. That's a disgraceful brainwashing
perpetrated on them. Think about the implications of this 'success'!
I can take the abuse. If only a few person stop and think, I did
something good.
And your above stats are valid because ....
A jury is 12 individuals who decides who has the best lawyer.
- Mark Twain
> On Wed, 07 Jun 2006 12:49:40 -0500, dapra <dap...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>>La N wrote:
>>
>>
>>>....I don't know why dapra ... even
>>>participates on military groups. He is just going to set himself up for
>>>karmaic abuse.
>>>
>>
>>You must be familiar with the statistics, that about 70% of the soldiers
>>believe that Saddam was behind 911. That's a disgraceful brainwashing
>>perpetrated on them. Think about the implications of this 'success'!
>>
>>I can take the abuse. If only a few person stop and think, I did
>>something good.
>
>
> And your above stats are valid because ....
...While 85% said the U.S. mission is mainly “to retaliate for Saddam’s
role in the 9-11 attacks,” 77% said they also believe the main or a
major reason for the war was “to stop Saddam from protecting al Qaeda in
Iraq.”
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075
>
> A jury is 12 individuals who decides who has the best lawyer.
> - Mark Twain
It's a good observation. That's how plutocracy work and worked.
You did something good by insulting Howard not to mention the military
readership of these two groups. Somehow, dapra, I doubt that you will find
anybody who will agree with you on this, including myself.
I did not insult Howard. At least not until he attached me. His attacks
are below the belt and he knows it.
My purpose is not to get a unity but to get people to think.
Harry S Truman's comment about Richard M. Nixon seems to categorize many of
my thoughts here: "I don't think the SOB ever read the Constitution. If he
did, he didn't understand it."
Incidentally, statistics are rather like a bikini: what they reveal is
suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. (Alan Alda or Groucho Marx
eyebrow raise at Nilita).
>GL Fowler wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 07 Jun 2006 12:49:40 -0500, dapra <dap...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>La N wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>....I don't know why dapra ... even
>>>>participates on military groups. He is just going to set himself up for
>>>>karmaic abuse.
>>>>
>>>
>>>You must be familiar with the statistics, that about 70% of the soldiers
>>>believe that Saddam was behind 911. That's a disgraceful brainwashing
>>>perpetrated on them. Think about the implications of this 'success'!
>>>
>>>I can take the abuse. If only a few person stop and think, I did
>>>something good.
>>
>>
>> And your above stats are valid because ....
>
>...While 85% said the U.S. mission is mainly “to retaliate for Saddam’s
>role in the 9-11 attacks,” 77% said they also believe the main or a
>major reason for the war was “to stop Saddam from protecting al Qaeda in
>Iraq.”
>
>http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075
>
Ah I see how this works, get a glitzy web page made, make some
observations and I can be a news source too!!
No telling about the statistics used either, the bard also said
" There are three kinds of liars in the world, liars, damn liars and
statisticians"
A few hours late I spy my name in a very confusing thread. For your
wine, determine your acceptable price, for a chardonnay decide whether
you are going to buy something exotic or a straight line glug, go to
the market or store or state facility and examine the prospects (not
the salespeople, the wines) and select your wine based on the earlier
criteria. My choice for a chardonnay, cheap, is either Rodney Strong,
Wente or Columbia Crest. These are $10 wines around here, almost my
upper limit for personal drinking. You have to be careful of dates (of
the wine), some of the cheap stuff is there because it is past its
prime, 2002 is probably over the hill.
I will add that I just saw a piece on ESPN of the German fans using
Nazi flags as symbols and making the HH salute. Oh my.
> On Wed, 07 Jun 2006 15:08:25 -0500, dapra <dap...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>>GL Fowler wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Wed, 07 Jun 2006 12:49:40 -0500, dapra <dap...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>La N wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>....I don't know why dapra ... even
>>>>>participates on military groups. He is just going to set himself up for
>>>>>karmaic abuse.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You must be familiar with the statistics, that about 70% of the soldiers
>>>>believe that Saddam was behind 911. That's a disgraceful brainwashing
>>>>perpetrated on them. Think about the implications of this 'success'!
>>>>
>>>>I can take the abuse. If only a few person stop and think, I did
>>>>something good.
>>>
>>>
>>>And your above stats are valid because ....
>>
>>...While 85% said the U.S. mission is mainly “to retaliate for Saddam’s
>>role in the 9-11 attacks,” 77% said they also believe the main or a
>>major reason for the war was “to stop Saddam from protecting al Qaeda in
>>Iraq.”
>>
>>http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075
>>
>
> Ah I see how this works, get a glitzy web page made, make some
> observations and I can be a news source too!!
>
Well, if you may consider Zogby a glitzy web page, I have nothing
further to tell you.
As I have mentioned elsewhere I am old enough to remember when we did
the whole head, heart flag routine with the right hand touching each of
the first two and then pointing at the flag. I think the idea of the
American flag as a sacred symbol is correct and I, for one, would like
to see anyone who puts a flag decal on his car, or drives around with a
flag or flags going ragged while the car does 80 mph, burned. The
proper disposal of the flag is to burn it and I think some of these
weenies should participate directly.
> In <X4Kdne0r5u2ioxrZ...@comcast.com>, dapra
> <dap...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>>La N wrote:
>
>
>>>"dapra" <dap...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>news:YuednbJR27M-nhrZ...@comcast.com...
>>>
>>>>I can take the abuse. If only a few person stop and think, I did something
>>>>good.
>>>
>>>You did something good by insulting Howard not to mention the military
>>>readership of these two groups. Somehow, dapra, I doubt that you will find
>>>anybody who will agree with you on this, including myself.
>>
>>I did not insult Howard. At least not until he attached me. His attacks
>>are below the belt and he knows it.
>
>
> Why would Howard attack you below the belt? There's nothing there ...
>
How cute AUK Registrar! You deserve, what you bargained for.
ever give consideration to the fact that the brainwashed one might be
you ?
I didnt think so.
On Wed, 07 Jun 2006 12:49:40 -0500, dapra <dap...@comcast.net> wrote:
did he use staples.. or pins.
Dapra reminds me of the tale of a mouse who removed a painful thorn from the
hoof of a cow elephant. Grateful, she offered to grant a favor, and the
mouse said he wanted to make wild, brutal love to her. With tongue in
trunk, she accepted.
As they did the Wild Thing, a coconut fell and got her on a sensitive part
of her skull. To her loud grunt, the pumping mouse growled "whassamatter,
you're admitting I'm too big for you?"
More seriously, why should I not attack someone whom I hold in utter
contempt, but who masochistically keeps setting himself up for more
punishment?
I read your messages and you often do good.
--
Sue
Thank you.
> "AUK Registrar" <cj...@mxyzptlk.net> wrote in message
> news:ikle82t65p6l34n6c...@4ax.com...
>
>>In <X4Kdne0r5u2ioxrZ...@comcast.com>, dapra
>><dap...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>La N wrote:
>>
>>>>"dapra" <dap...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:YuednbJR27M-nhrZ...@comcast.com...
>>>>
>>>>>I can take the abuse. If only a few person stop and think, I did
>
> something
>
>>>>>good.
>>>>
>>>>You did something good by insulting Howard not to mention the military
>>>>readership of these two groups. Somehow, dapra, I doubt that you will
>
> find
>
>>>>anybody who will agree with you on this, including myself.
>>>
>>>I did not insult Howard. At least not until he attached me. His attacks
>>>are below the belt and he knows it.
>>
>>Why would Howard attack you below the belt? There's nothing there ...
>>
>>
>
> I'd certainly never attach myself to him.
>
One for you. It's not too classy, but..
>
> No, unless he is ruled by that
> very little head he may have had below the belt, I have accused him directly
> of having the mindset of secret police who know what is best for everyone.
>
Yes, you did. This charge is hollow from someone who supports the Iraqi
massacre.
>
> He's certainly someone I would never trust with temporal power -- he's too
> cowardly to be a thug himself, but could be an excellent apologist for them.
>
Not all of us can be a thug, Howard. Some has more talent to be one.
>
> Dapra reminds me of the tale of a mouse who removed a painful thorn from the
> hoof of a cow elephant. Grateful, she offered to grant a favor, and the
> mouse said he wanted to make wild, brutal love to her. With tongue in
> trunk, she accepted.
>
> As they did the Wild Thing, a coconut fell and got her on a sensitive part
> of her skull. To her loud grunt, the pumping mouse growled "whassamatter,
> you're admitting I'm too big for you?"
Nice tale.
>
> More seriously, why should I not attack someone whom I hold in utter
> contempt, but who masochistically keeps setting himself up for more
> punishment?
>
You should. If for nothing else, but to reveal your character.
Why don't you two rent a room, or trim your headers, that way you
don't have to infuse your blather into the rest of the world.
>
> ERIC: (Reaching for his dice) Maybe I'll roll up a fire-using mage so I can
> avenge my paladin...
>
> At this point, the increasingly amused fellow party members restored a
> modicum of order by explaining what a gazebo is. This is solely an
> afterthought, of course, but Eric is doubly lucky that the gazebo was not
> situated on a grassy gnoll."
>
>
>
>
>
> Mind you, I played in a campaign whose dyslexic Dungeonmistress told us of
> an encounter with a giant garbanzo.
Many thanks for the laugh Howard.
Joe
--
A good wife always forgives her husband when she's wrong.
- nilita
Sorry but you must understand that a punster can become dangerous
to himself and others if he loses the ability to pun in public.
For example there is the sad example of the Texas cowboy who was
incarcerated for unrestrained punning of the goat ropers from
San Angelo Texas. Those cowboys never could stand sheep herders.
Upon his release he is reported to have corralled the first person
he met and unloaded a pile of puns that buried the poor guy deeper
than a goat swimming in sheep dip. Some have advanced the theory
that it is psychologically similar to preventing a flasher from
exposing his, well you know. The adrenaline rush from both activities
leads to an addiction that零 put black heroin to shame. Fortunately
Howard went down the road of puns, which we should all be thankful for.
Joe ;^)
> On Wed, 07 Jun 2006 21:26:03 -0500, dapra <dap...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Suzan Meier wrote:
>>
>>
>>>dapra wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>If only a few person stop and think, I did something good.
>>>
>>>
>>>I read your messages and you often do good.
>>>
>>
>>Thank you.
>
>
> Why don't you two rent a room, or trim your headers, that way you
> don't have to infuse your blather into the rest of the world.
>
I appreciate your concern for my accommodation. I don't need a room.
There are only two new groups in the header. It needs no trimming. Most
of the posts have five or more. You have the option not to read my
posts, use it.
>GL Fowler wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 07 Jun 2006 21:26:03 -0500, dapra <dap...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Suzan Meier wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>dapra wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>If only a few person stop and think, I did something good.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I read your messages and you often do good.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Thank you.
>>
>>
>> Why don't you two rent a room, or trim your headers, that way you
>> don't have to infuse your blather into the rest of the world.
>>
>
>I appreciate your concern for my accommodation. I don't need a room.
>There are only two new groups in the header. It needs no trimming. Most
>of the posts have five or more. You have the option not to read my
>posts, use it.
>
Well yes, but common courtesy which is not all that common, right
along with common sense.