A bridge collapses in Minneapolis.
dapra
MINNEAPOLIS - The entire span of an interstate bridge collapsed into the
Mississippi River during evening rush hour Wednesday, sending vehicles,
tons of concrete and twisted metal crashing into the water...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/minnesota_bridge_collapse;_ylt=Av1Iywe1hvKIwrgQt4KakzWs0NUE
Well, we have no money to fix our infrastructure, but we spend $10
billions a month on imperial aggression in Iraq to get the oil fields
for EXXON and Chevron. So they can join OPEC, the oil cartel, and rip
off the American consumers even more.
Our politicians should be cooked in their oil, preferably over 200
Fahrenheit.
Jack Granade
"dapra" <dap...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:V7mdnQ61isP8oSzb...@comcast.com...
>This could be another right wing conspiracy and I will give you a hint.
>Bush used his remote control earthquake machine to bring down the bridge.
>This is the same machine he used in 911.
dapra
Who would you blame, but the government for ignoring the up keeping of
the infrastructure?
Oh! I'd guess illegal aliens didn't paint the bridge. Yeah, they are the
guilty ones.
redc1c4
local bridge, local problem. at first glance it looks like human error.
that's why the contractor has insurance.
redc1c4,
explaining the obvious, to the oblivious. %-)
--
"Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear
considerable watching."
Army Officer's Guide
Free Lunch
redc1c4 <red...@drunkenbastards.org.ies> wrote in
<46B14738...@drunkenbastards.org.ies>:
>dapra wrote:
>>
>> MINNEAPOLIS - The entire span of an interstate bridge collapsed into the
>> Mississippi River during evening rush hour Wednesday, sending vehicles,
>> tons of concrete and twisted metal crashing into the water...
>>
>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/minnesota_bridge_collapse;_ylt=Av1Iywe1hvKIwrgQt4KakzWs0NUE
>>
>> Well, we have no money to fix our infrastructure, but we spend $10
>> billions a month on imperial aggression in Iraq to get the oil fields
>> for EXXON and Chevron. So they can join OPEC, the oil cartel, and rip
>> off the American consumers even more.
>>
>> Our politicians should be cooked in their oil, preferably over 200
>> Fahrenheit.
>
>local bridge, local problem. at first glance it looks like human error.
>
>that's why the contractor has insurance.
Which contractor?
Uncle Vic
with this:
No no no. Father time was doing Mother Nature. Good thing you came out
from under the bridge before it collapsed.
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Convicted by Earthquack.
dapra
Redc1c4 refers to the ones laid the pipes in Manhattan 80 years ago
(busted a few weeks ago). And their insurance of course. Redc1c4 lives
in la-la land.
Uncle Vic
us up with this:
> On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 02:52:58 GMT, in alt.atheism
Maybe the one who was on pot-hole duty all last month.
Mike Ruskai
<red...@drunkenbastards.org.ies> dribble thusly:
>dapra wrote:
>>
>> MINNEAPOLIS - The entire span of an interstate bridge collapsed into the
>> Mississippi River during evening rush hour Wednesday, sending vehicles,
>> tons of concrete and twisted metal crashing into the water...
>>
>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/minnesota_bridge_collapse;_ylt=Av1Iywe1hvKIwrgQt4KakzWs0NUE
>>
>> Well, we have no money to fix our infrastructure, but we spend $10
>> billions a month on imperial aggression in Iraq to get the oil fields
>> for EXXON and Chevron. So they can join OPEC, the oil cartel, and rip
>> off the American consumers even more.
>>
>> Our politicians should be cooked in their oil, preferably over 200
>> Fahrenheit.
>
>local bridge, local problem. at first glance it looks like human error.
It's an Interstate Highway bridge. That makes it federal.
>that's why the contractor has insurance.
Such a comment seems to suggest you're one of those
privatize-everything nutters.
--
- Mike
Ignore the Python in me to send e-mail.
Kate
Sounds like he's more interested in not having to pay for guarenteed
safe bridges and having a bunch of people killed every few months
isn't too big of a price to pay to save a few tax dollars.
redc1c4
the general contractor in charge of the construction on the bridge,
assuming, of course, that the investigation shows an action or lack
thereof on their part or that of a subordinate contractor led to the
failure.
from the video i saw on TV, i'd say the one side that is tilted
is the source of failure. when it went, it tilted away from the river,
dragging the other side towards it until the connections failed,
wherein it tilted to the position it's in, and the rest fell down
and separated into the jumbled wreckage visible.
since i am *not* an engineer, this is a simple postulation, based
on geometry and physics, and subject to review and dispute by
learned persons.
redc1c4,
politically based diatribes will be met with derision. %-)
redc1c4
still gotta be solved at the local level. when the gas tanker took
out the interstate bridges in Frisco early this year, it was Caltrans
who took care of the problem, regardless of where funding came from.
seems like you're one of those "someone take care of me" pussies.
redc1c4,
born with a brain & a backbone, unlike some. %-)
redc1c4
so you'll be able to give me a list of infallible bridges, that will
never fail, no matter what?
human manufactured artifacts fail. sometimes due to poor design, or
to poor construction or materials. sometimes to outside forces or old
age. only a consummate fool would think that anything can be guaranteed
"safe".
redc1c4,
apparently, you are that fool. thanks for playing %-)
Jim E
So just when did someone say this bridge needed repair, and just who denied
the money?
Another straw man dim argument surfaces from the cesspool.
Jim E
Michelle Malkin
news:sj13b3hodo7cj3t6p...@4ax.com...
> spend all the state's money on welfare programs including civil unions
> give-aways for homosexuals and don't leave enough to support the
> infrastructure:
>
> *Highlights of the Minnesota 2008-2009 House Democrat-Farm-Labor (DFL)
> Budget proposal include:
>
> ** $919 million in new education spending, including voluntary All-Day
> Kindergarten across the state.
>
> <aka - Welfare spending>
>
> ** A Cover-All-Kids health care initiative that will provide coverage
> for the approximately 70,000 Minnesota children currently without
> health insurance.
>
> <aka - Welfare spending>
>
> ** $535 million in significant, permanent statewide property tax
> relief and reform, including school levy reductions, market value
> credits, property-tax refunds and increased local government aid.
>
> <aka - lets cut taxes so the state can't recoup the money (we DFL's
> are spending on Welfare) and in turn make the Governor look bad>
>
> Next question...
You list all these things as though they're bad. Are you
mentally disabled? You prefer a phoney war to taking
care of our own people? I guess that answers my question.
Andrealphus
typed this:
That will no doubt be investigated. Bridges are assigned a regular
preventative maintenance inspection schedule. No doubt the government, and
the courts now, are going to want to know why this level of problem was not
discovered prior to its collapse.
Fester
"redc1c4" <red...@drunkenbastards.org.ies> wrote in message
news:46B14738...@drunkenbastards.org.ies...
> dapra wrote:
>>
>> MINNEAPOLIS - The entire span of an interstate bridge collapsed into the
>> Mississippi River during evening rush hour Wednesday, sending vehicles,
>> tons of concrete and twisted metal crashing into the water...
>>
>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/minnesota_bridge_collapse;_ylt=Av1Iywe1hvKIwrgQt4KakzWs0NUE
>>
>> Well, we have no money to fix our infrastructure, but we spend $10
>> billions a month on imperial aggression in Iraq to get the oil fields
>> for EXXON and Chevron. So they can join OPEC, the oil cartel, and rip
>> off the American consumers even more.
>>
>> Our politicians should be cooked in their oil, preferably over 200
>> Fahrenheit.
>
> local bridge, local problem. at first glance it looks like human error.
No, no, no, can't you see? It was Chimpy McHitlerburton's fault! And
global warming too!
Harry
> In News 5hddieF3ittn...@mid.individual.net,, Jim E at YD639...@SVN.net,
> typed this:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "dapra" <dap...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >news:V7mdnQ61isP8oSzb...@comcast.com...
>
> >> MINNEAPOLIS - The entire span of an interstate bridge collapsed into
> >> the Mississippi River during evening rush hour Wednesday, sending
> >> vehicles, tons of concrete and twisted metal crashing into the
> >> water...
>
> >> Well, we have no money to fix our infrastructure, but we spend $10
> >> billions a month on imperial aggression in Iraq to get the oil
> >> fields for EXXON and Chevron. So they can join OPEC, the oil cartel,
> >> and rip off the American consumers even more.
>
> >> Our politicians should be cooked in their oil, preferably over 200
> >> Fahrenheit.
>
> > So just when did someone say this bridge needed repair, and just who
> > denied the money?
> > Another straw man dim argument surfaces from the cesspool.
>
> > Jim E
>
> That will no doubt be investigated. Bridges are assigned a regular
> preventative maintenance inspection schedule. No doubt the government, and
> the courts now, are going to want to know why this level of problem was not
>
> - Show quoted text -
>
>
Hello,
The Mooselums did it.
Truly
"Know thine enemy"
John 8:44
http://jewwatch.com
http://judicial-inc.biz
Andrealphus
pamin...@netscape.net, typed this:
I'm sure Bush will want that investigated as well.
NC
A Mooselum once bit my sister.
Matt Silberstein
<red...@drunkenbastards.org.ies> in
<46B16CB7...@drunkenbastards.org.ies> wrote:
Because CalTrans, a state not local agency, was in charge of that area
of the road and is in charge of the bridges. But you can be sure that
the Feds were there and involved.
>seems like you're one of those "someone take care of me" pussies.
Yeah, caring about bridge safety is so pussy.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
geno4321
"Andrealphus" <NOTAREA...@FAM.NET> wrote in message
news:k4jsi.13046$rR.1...@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
The Cunning Linguist
"Michelle Malkin" <hypa...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:s6udnVscpYb4Dizb...@comcast.com...
And you prefer wasting money on door locks for your home?
Sometimes one has to spend money to save money. Right now we are trying to
contain the sewage leak of humanity from contaminating the rest of the
world. Too bad so many seem to like living in cesspools with turds all
around them. Some even believe a turd has a special status.
>
>
John Popelish
>> ** $919 million in new education spending, including voluntary All-Day
>> Kindergarten across the state.
>>
>> <aka - Welfare spending>
>>
>> ** A Cover-All-Kids health care initiative that will provide coverage
>> for the approximately 70,000 Minnesota children currently without
>> health insurance.
> You list all these things as though they're bad. Are you
> mentally disabled? You prefer a phoney war to taking
> care of our own people? I guess that answers my question.
Besides that, kids are the ultimate long term infrastructure
in any country.
az-willie
> spend all the state's money on welfare programs including civil unions
> give-aways for homosexuals and don't leave enough to support the
> infrastructure:
>
> *Highlights of the Minnesota 2008-2009 House Democrat-Farm-Labor (DFL)
> Budget proposal include:
>
> Kindergarten across the state.
>
> <aka - Welfare spending>
>
> ** A Cover-All-Kids health care initiative that will provide coverage
> for the approximately 70,000 Minnesota children currently without
> health insurance.
>
> <aka - Welfare spending>
>
> relief and reform, including school levy reductions, market value
> credits, property-tax refunds and increased local government aid.
>
> <aka - lets cut taxes so the state can't recoup the money (we DFL's
> are spending on Welfare) and in turn make the Governor look bad>
>
> Next question...
Here's a quarter .... go buy a clue.
The bridge was part of the Federal Interstate Highway System. It is a
FEDERAL responsibility.
Local liberal politicians had nothing to do with it.
Your beloved right wing nutcakes have been in power for almost the last
eight years running the Federal show and the bridge was inspected in
2005 and noted unsatisfactory and in 2006 they noted stress fractures.
But did your right wing nutjobs fix it? Hell no. They were in the
process of resurfacing to put a pretty smooth face on the road and
spending yet more money with contractors to build a widening on an
already unsafe bridge that was 40 years old and needed repairs.
Instead of repairs to the structure they were adding on to a bridge that
already had stress fractures.
That was the work of your right wing conservatives buddy ... not liberals.
redc1c4
children are the responsibility of the parents who had them. if they
can't afford the health care, education costs and everything else, they
shouldn't have the kids.
redc1c4,
it doesn't take a village, it takes personal responsibility. HTH. %-)
redc1c4
naw..... it was the JOOOOOOs.
redc1c4,
or maybe space aliens? %-)
Free Lunch
az-willie <scl...@npole.com> wrote in
<jpnsi.3173$Mu5....@newsfe15.phx>:
The federal government doesn't own highways, states do.
>
>Local liberal politicians had nothing to do with it.
State governments control highways, though the state DOT is generally
not too political in any state.
redc1c4
not on the level you apparently think they are. they cut a check.
everything was handled at the local level, and, btw, i include state
agencies as "local", simply because they are *not* national. after all,
the interstate highway is administered at the state level throughout the
country.
> >seems like you're one of those "someone take care of me" pussies.
>
> Yeah, caring about bridge safety is so pussy.
only a bullshitter like you could make *that* leap of illogic. does it
hurt when you try to think logically?
> --
> Matt Silberstein
>
> Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
>
> http://www.beawitness.org
> http://www.darfurgenocide.org
> http://www.savedarfur.org
>
> "Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop, but that I am not willing to get
> personally involved in."
redc1c4,
get your ass on a plane or STFU. the UN needs troops.
William Wingstedt
That may very well be, but they had these kids...and if you can't
afford to build and maintain your own bridge, then maybe you should
constrain your driving activities within the boundaries created by
every river, lake, stream, pond and creek you encounter.
redc1c4
no they aren't. infrastructure is large, long term usage engineering
items that produce and support society for generations.
children are an expendable item with a variable shelf life.
redc1c4,
HTH.... %-)
Geoff
"The 40-year-old bridge was rated as "structurally deficient" two years ago
and possibly in need of replacement, the Star Tribune reported. The
newspaper said that rating was contained in the U.S. Department of
Transportation's National Bridge Inventory database."
Charlie Wolf
taxed, very left wing liberal state -- particularly in Minneapolis/St.
Paul. We do have a Republican Governor because out-state Minnesota
tends more Republican.
At any rate, this tragedy has nothing to do with Iraq, oil, OPEC or
Exxon. (Did that REALLY need to be explained to anyone????)
It DOES have something to do with liberal Democrat state legislature
that spent billions --- yes, I said billions, of dollars on a light
rail transit system in Minneapolis that goes nowhere and doesn't do
anything to relieve traffic congestion. That money could have -
should have - been spent on roads, infrastructure .........
and bridge repair.
Regards,
Eris
> John Popelish wrote:
>
> > Michelle Malkin wrote:
>From an pathetic little alcoholic man with no children.
Eris
> Michelle Malkin wrote:
>
> >news:sj13b3hodo7cj3t6p...@4ax.com...
> > > On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 22:49:26 -0400, dapra <dap...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > >>Jack Granade wrote:
>
> > >>> "dapra" <dap...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > >>>news:V7mdnQ61isP8oSzb...@comcast.com...
>
> > >>>>MINNEAPOLIS - The entire span of an interstate bridge collapsed into the
> > >>>>Mississippi River during evening rush hour Wednesday, sending vehicles,
> > >>>>tons of concrete and twisted metal crashing into the water...
>
Have you ever read or heard of anything called the bible.
Suffer not the little children on to me said the greatest man ever to
live.
Fester
"Charlie Wolf" <charli...@noemail.com> wrote in message
news:ir74b353d1dteq5dm...@4ax.com...
> If you knew anything about Minnesota, you'd know that it is a highly
> taxed, very left wing liberal state -- particularly in Minneapolis/St.
> Paul. We do have a Republican Governor because out-state Minnesota
> tends more Republican.
>
> At any rate, this tragedy has nothing to do with Iraq, oil, OPEC or
> Exxon. (Did that REALLY need to be explained to anyone????)
>
> It DOES have something to do with liberal Democrat state legislature
> that spent billions --- yes, I said billions, of dollars on a light
> rail transit system in Minneapolis that goes nowhere and doesn't do
> anything to relieve traffic congestion. That money could have -
> should have - been spent on roads, infrastructure .........
> and bridge repair.
>
> Regards,
Kind of like the New Orleans levees, right?
chatnoir
> In News 5hddieF3ittn...@mid.individual.net,, Jim E at YD639...@SVN.net,
>
>
>
> > "dapra" <dap...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >news:V7mdnQ61isP8oSzb...@comcast.com...
>
> >> MINNEAPOLIS - The entire span of an interstatebridgecollapsed into
> >> vehicles, tons of concrete and twisted metal crashing into the
> >> water...
>
> >> Well, we have no money to fix our infrastructure, but we spend $10
> >> billions a month on imperial aggression in Iraq to get the oil
> >> fields for EXXON and Chevron. So they can join OPEC, the oil cartel,
> >> and rip off the American consumers even more.
>
> >> Our politicians should be cooked in their oil, preferably over 200
> >> Fahrenheit.
>
> > denied the money?
> > Another straw man dim argument surfaces from the cesspool.
>
> > Jim E
>
> That will no doubt be investigated. Bridges are assigned a regular
> preventative maintenance inspection schedule. No doubt the government, and
> the courts now, are going to want to know why this level of problem was not
> discovered prior to itscollapse.
It is obvious that the 'mere Gook rule' now applies to American's in
America as well as Iraqis' in Iraq!
Andrealphus
wolfb...@mindspring.com, typed this:
Well, I'm not entirely sure what that's supposed to mean, but from what I've
heard on the news, the Bridge inspections and repair seems to be a State of
Minnesota issue.
redc1c4
you're the religious fundy whack j*b, not me. you can put your bible with
your "global warming" bullshit, and all the other ghost stories you
scare your ignorant ass with.
redc1c4,
it's lucky for you breathing is an autonomic event. %-)
redc1c4
>
> On Aug 2, 1:31 pm, redc1c4 <redc...@drunkenbastards.org.ies> wrote:
> > John Popelish wrote:
> >
> > > Michelle Malkin wrote:
> > > > "Al Key" <alkee...@teranews.com> wrote in message
> > > (snip)
> > > >> ** $919 million in new education spending, including voluntary All-Day
> > > >> Kindergarten across the state.
> >
> > > >> <aka - Welfare spending>
> >
> > > >> ** A Cover-All-Kids health care initiative that will provide coverage
> > > >> for the approximately 70,000 Minnesota children currently without
> > > >> health insurance.
> > > (snip)
> > > > You list all these things as though they're bad. Are you
> > > > mentally disabled? You prefer a phoney war to taking
> > > > care of our own people? I guess that answers my question.
> >
> > > Besides that, kids are the ultimate long term infrastructure
> > > in any country.
> >
> > no they aren't. infrastructure is large, long term usage engineering
> > items that produce and support society for generations.
> >
> > children are an expendable item with a variable shelf life.
> >
> > redc1c4,
> > HTH.... %-)
>
a valid comment from someone with logistical training. in the grand
scheme of things, people are interchangeable and easily replaced.
if you need more, all you have to do is encourage people to have sex
and *presto*, you have more. the hard part is getting them to stop
having children.
you can certainly get a new crop of children faster than you can rebuild
an infrastructure item like the interstate highway system, or the
national power grid, or pipeline system, all of which need attention.
redc1c4,
denying the validity of an essential truth doesn't make it any less so. %-)
Eris
Wow you are a psycho
johac
dapra <dap...@comcast.net> wrote:
> MINNEAPOLIS - The entire span of an interstate bridge collapsed into the
> Mississippi River during evening rush hour Wednesday, sending vehicles,
> tons of concrete and twisted metal crashing into the water...
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/minnesota_bridge_collapse;_ylt=Av1Iywe1hvKIwrgQt4Ka
> kzWs0NUE
>
> Well, we have no money to fix our infrastructure, but we spend $10
> billions a month on imperial aggression in Iraq to get the oil fields
> for EXXON and Chevron. So they can join OPEC, the oil cartel, and rip
> off the American consumers even more.
>
> Our politicians should be cooked in their oil, preferably over 200
> Fahrenheit.
Exactly. And this is not a new problem. For the last ten or fifteen
years, I've been hearing the people and politicians saying that our
infrastructure is in bad shape. I guess that a war for oil and tax cuts
for the richest are more important than a few people drowning when a
bridge collapses. Too bad some of those responsible weren't on the
bridge.
--
John #1782
"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be
white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."
- Saint Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556) Founder of the Jesuit Order.
V
> MINNEAPOLIS - The entire span of an interstate bridge collapsed into the
> Mississippi River during evening rush hour Wednesday, sending vehicles,
> tons of concrete and twisted metal crashing into the water...
>
>
> Well, we have no money to fix our infrastructure, but we spend $10
> billions a month on imperial aggression in Iraq to get the oil fields
> for EXXON and Chevron. So they can join OPEC, the oil cartel, and rip
> off the American consumers even more.
>
> Our politicians should be cooked in their oil, preferably over 200
> Fahrenheit.
you bring up good points...life is not easy...but it can be easier the
richer one is.
V
chatnoir
> In News 1186090014.659583.305...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com,, chatnoir at
> wolfbat3...@mindspring.com, typed this:
Try again!
Doc Smartass
news:13b2g2t...@corp.supernews.com:
>
> "dapra" <dap...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:V7mdnQ61isP8oSzb...@comcast.com...
>>
>> MINNEAPOLIS - The entire span of an interstate bridge collapsed into
>> the Mississippi River during evening rush hour Wednesday, sending
>> vehicles, tons of concrete and twisted metal crashing into the
>> water...
>>
>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/minnesota_bridge_collapse;_ylt=Av1Iywe1hvKI
>> wrgQt4KakzWs0NUE
>>
>> Well, we have no money to fix our infrastructure, but we spend $10
>> billions a month on imperial aggression in Iraq to get the oil fields
>> for EXXON and Chevron. So they can join OPEC, the oil cartel, and rip
>> off the American consumers even more.
>>
>> Our politicians should be cooked in their oil, preferably over 200
>> Fahrenheit.
>>
>>You did not waste any time blaming the government for the bridge
>>collapse. This could be another right wing conspiracy and I will give
>>you a hint. Bush used his remote control earthquake machine to bring
>>down the bridge. This is the same machine he used in 911.
No, no, no, man. CIA did it. They were trying to get Garrison Keillor.
--
Doc Smartass, BAAWA Knight of Heckling
aa # 1939
Help Prevent Projectile Stupidity
Duct-Tape a Fundie's Mouth Shut Today!
July 29, 1994:
Jim Barret & Dr. John Britton
Murdered by paul hill.
Andrealphus
wolfb...@mindspring.com, typed this:
State bridge, state inspectors, state issue.
Tankfixer
@drunkenbastards.org.ies mumbled
>
> since i am *not* an engineer, this is a simple postulation, based
> on geometry and physics, and subject to review and dispute by
> learned persons.
>
Structural joints designed to work in one direction REALLY don't like
being twisted and pulled in directions not intended...
--
Usenetsaurus n. an early pedantic internet mammal, who survived on a
diet of static text and
cascading "threads."
Colin Campbell
<red...@drunkenbastards.org.ies> wrote:
>dapra wrote:
>>
>> MINNEAPOLIS - The entire span of an interstate bridge collapsed into the
>> Mississippi River during evening rush hour Wednesday, sending vehicles,
>> tons of concrete and twisted metal crashing into the water...
>>
>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/minnesota_bridge_collapse;_ylt=Av1Iywe1hvKIwrgQt4KakzWs0NUE
>>
>> Well, we have no money to fix our infrastructure, but we spend $10
>> billions a month on imperial aggression in Iraq to get the oil fields
>> for EXXON and Chevron. So they can join OPEC, the oil cartel, and rip
>> off the American consumers even more.
>>
>> Our politicians should be cooked in their oil, preferably over 200
>> Fahrenheit.
>
>local bridge, local problem. at first glance it looks like human error.
Local bridge and locals who knew that the bridge was structurally
deficient.
--
There can be no triumph without loss.
No victory without suffering.
No freedom without sacrifice.
Colin Campbell
<BUTth...@DONTearthlinkLIKE.netSPAM> wrote:
>On or about Thu, 02 Aug 2007 02:52:58 GMT did redc1c4
><red...@drunkenbastards.org.ies> dribble thusly:
>
>>dapra wrote:
>>>
>>> MINNEAPOLIS - The entire span of an interstate bridge collapsed into the
>>> Mississippi River during evening rush hour Wednesday, sending vehicles,
>>> tons of concrete and twisted metal crashing into the water...
>>>
>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/minnesota_bridge_collapse;_ylt=Av1Iywe1hvKIwrgQt4KakzWs0NUE
>>>
>>> Well, we have no money to fix our infrastructure, but we spend $10
>>> billions a month on imperial aggression in Iraq to get the oil fields
>>> for EXXON and Chevron. So they can join OPEC, the oil cartel, and rip
>>> off the American consumers even more.
>>>
>>> Our politicians should be cooked in their oil, preferably over 200
>>> Fahrenheit.
>>
>>local bridge, local problem. at first glance it looks like human error.
>
>It's an Interstate Highway bridge. That makes it federal.
Maintenance is still the primary responsibility of the local
governments. Each state gets federal trust funds to help pay for
highway maintenance - how those funds are spend is up to the locals.
Colin Campbell
<RemoveThisPref...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>still gotta be solved at the local level. when the gas tanker took
>>out the interstate bridges in Frisco early this year, it was Caltrans
>>who took care of the problem, regardless of where funding came from.
>
>Because CalTrans, a state not local agency, was in charge of that area
>of the road and is in charge of the bridges. But you can be sure that
>the Feds were there and involved.
The NTSB was there - but the repairs came out of the state budget.
Colin Campbell
(William Wingstedt) wrote:
>That may very well be, but they had these kids...and if you can't
>afford to build and maintain your own bridge, then maybe you should
>constrain your driving activities within the boundaries created by
>every river, lake, stream, pond and creek you encounter.
From what I read the local government was told that the bridge was
deficient back in 1990. They chose not to replace the bridge and
instead decided to inspect it every year.
Governor Swill
<red...@drunkenbastards.org.ies> wrote:
>> Besides that, kids are the ultimate long term infrastructure
>> in any country.
>
>no they aren't. infrastructure is large, long term usage engineering
>items that produce and support society for generations.
>
>children are an expendable item with a variable shelf life.
Cruel, but a fair assessment.
Swill
--
Picture of the day
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html
Governor Swill
<red...@drunkenbastards.org.ies> wrote:
>redc1c4,
>denying the validity of an essential truth doesn't make it any less so. %-)
WHOAH! You're starting to make sense!
Must be the beers . . .
Governor Swill
<red...@drunkenbastards.org.ies> wrote:
>> You list all these things as though they're bad. Are you
>> mentally disabled? You prefer a phoney war to taking
>> care of our own people? I guess that answers my question.
>
>children are the responsibility of the parents who had them. if they
>can't afford the health care, education costs and everything else, they
>shouldn't have the kids.
>
>redc1c4,
>it doesn't take a village, it takes personal responsibility. HTH. %-)
Primarily, yes. However, it is in the best interests of any group to
mutually invest in each other's children as well.
Governor Swill
<red...@drunkenbastards.org.ies> wrote:
>it's lucky for you breathing is an autonomic event. %-)
heh Good one, Centurion!
Governor Swill
<activa...@earthlink.net (remove underscore)> wrote:
>>local bridge, local problem. at first glance it looks like human error.
>
>Local bridge and locals who knew that the bridge was structurally
>deficient.
I'm so sorry for the lost loved ones.
I have scorn for the voters who failed to attend to their public
business.
Governor Swill
<NOTAREA...@FAM.NET> wrote:
>>> Well, I'm not entirely sure what that's supposed to mean, but from
>>> what I've heard on the news, the Bridge inspections and repair seems
>>> to be a State of Minnesota issue.
>>
>> Try again!
>
>State bridge, state inspectors, state issue.
So it was a State rather than a county or city bridge?
Governor Swill
wrote:
>"The 40-year-old bridge was rated as "structurally deficient" two years ago
>and possibly in need of replacement, the Star Tribune reported. The
>newspaper said that rating was contained in the U.S. Department of
>Transportation's National Bridge Inventory database."
Lol! It's stuff like "U.S. Department of Transportation's National
Bridge Inventory database" that makes America great. The United
States is run more like a business than any other country in the
world.
Governor Swill
<charli...@noemail.com> wrote:
>If you knew anything about Minnesota, you'd know that it is a highly
>taxed, very left wing liberal state -- particularly in Minneapolis/St.
>Paul. We do have a Republican Governor because out-state Minnesota
>tends more Republican.
>
>At any rate, this tragedy has nothing to do with Iraq, oil, OPEC or
>Exxon. (Did that REALLY need to be explained to anyone????)
>
>It DOES have something to do with liberal Democrat state legislature
>that spent billions --- yes, I said billions, of dollars on a light
>rail transit system in Minneapolis that goes nowhere and doesn't do
>anything to relieve traffic congestion
because people won't use it
> That money could have -
>should have - been spent on roads, infrastructure .........
>and bridge repair.
It's still the locals' problem. They should have used their local and
state delegations to push for repair or replacement.
Governor Swill
>> It DOES have something to do with liberal Democrat state legislature
>> that spent billions --- yes, I said billions, of dollars on a light
>> rail transit system in Minneapolis that goes nowhere and doesn't do
>> anything to relieve traffic congestion. That money could have -
>> should have - been spent on roads, infrastructure .........
>> and bridge repair.
>>
>> Regards,
>
>Kind of like the New Orleans levees, right?
Good one, Centurion!
Governor Swill
<jhac...@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> Well, we have no money to fix our infrastructure, but we spend $10
>> billions a month on imperial aggression in Iraq to get the oil fields
>> for EXXON and Chevron. So they can join OPEC, the oil cartel, and rip
>> off the American consumers even more.
>>
>> Our politicians should be cooked in their oil, preferably over 200
>> Fahrenheit.
>
>Exactly. And this is not a new problem. For the last ten or fifteen
>years, I've been hearing the people and politicians saying that our
>infrastructure is in bad shape. I guess that a war for oil and tax cuts
>for the richest are more important than a few people drowning when a
>bridge collapses. Too bad some of those responsible weren't on the
>bridge.
You're young yet. I've been hearing it since the Oil Embargo.
Andrealphus
governo...@gmail.com, typed this:
> On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 02:00:47 GMT, "Andrealphus"
> <NOTAREA...@FAM.NET> wrote:
>
>>>> Well, I'm not entirely sure what that's supposed to mean, but from
>>>> what I've heard on the news, the Bridge inspections and repair
>>>> seems to be a State of Minnesota issue.
>>>
>>> Try again!
>>
>> State bridge, state inspectors, state issue.
>
> So it was a State rather than a county or city bridge?
>
> Swill
It was an interstate highway bridge. While the State can certainly delegate
repair operations to the County level who most often have the equipment for
the repairs, responsibility for seeing that the repairs are completed and
inspected rests with the State in this case in Minnesota.
chatnoir
> In News 1186103380.622307.105...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com,, chatnoir at
Sounds Federal to me - From Glenn:
The single span, cantilever bridge that fell down was designed and
built
during the time the former Minnesota senator and then vice president,
Hubert Humphrey was in office. The barge owners needed the wide space
so
they wouldn't have to change from multiple to single wide barge
configurations. When the second bridge was designed, the Nixon
republicans were in control and they let their engineers design the
new
bridge. The engineers rejected the single span design because the
failure
mode gave no warning and was catastrophic, no partial failure.
(Information gleamed from a CNN interview with an MIT professor.)
Andrealphus
wolfb...@mindspring.com, typed this:
Whatever it may sound like to you, it is a state issue.
dapra
> John Popelish wrote:
>
>>Michelle Malkin wrote:
>>
>>
>>(snip)
>>
>>>>** $919 million in new education spending, including voluntary All-Day
>>>>Kindergarten across the state.
>>>>
>>>><aka - Welfare spending>
>>>>
>>>>** A Cover-All-Kids health care initiative that will provide coverage
>>>>for the approximately 70,000 Minnesota children currently without
>>>>health insurance.
>>
>>(snip)
>>
>>>mentally disabled? You prefer a phoney war to taking
>>>care of our own people? I guess that answers my question.
>>
>>in any country.
>
>
> no they aren't. infrastructure is large, long term usage engineering
> items that produce and support society for generations.
>
Yes, children are small, but millions of families contributions to them
are large. A lot larger than to the infrastructure.
It is so especially since the right wingers mindless tax cuts and
government hate neglected to upkeep our infrastructure. The right
wingers mantra; 'Grab, steal as much as you can today, don't worry about
tomorrow'.
>
> children are an expendable item with a variable shelf life.
>
Families, society invest a lot of money in children, even before they
are born. They don't pop out of Athena's head fully trained scientists,
soldiers or doctors. Their productive life of 40 years may be shorter
than a bridge, but the ARE the real 'infrastructure'.
The corporate controlled government intended to neglect the 'human
infrastructure' just as much as the physical one. Why? Because they can
get unskilled labor from Mexico or skilled ones from India or China. The
hell with the American people, they think, only profit matters.
In spite of the hypocritical slogans their servants, the mass media
propagate, the corporate oligarchy betrayed the people of the USA long
time ago.
>
> redc1c4,
> HTH.... %-)
redc1c4
>
> redc1c4 wrote:
> > John Popelish wrote:
> >
> >>Michelle Malkin wrote:
> >>
> >>>"Al Key" <alke...@teranews.com> wrote in message
> >>
> >>(snip)
> >>
> >>>>** $919 million in new education spending, including voluntary All-Day
> >>>>Kindergarten across the state.
> >>>>
> >>>><aka - Welfare spending>
> >>>>
> >>>>** A Cover-All-Kids health care initiative that will provide coverage
> >>>>for the approximately 70,000 Minnesota children currently without
> >>>>health insurance.
> >>
> >>(snip)
> >>
> >>>You list all these things as though they're bad. Are you
> >>>mentally disabled? You prefer a phoney war to taking
> >>>care of our own people? I guess that answers my question.
> >>
> >>Besides that, kids are the ultimate long term infrastructure
> >>in any country.
> >
> >
> > no they aren't. infrastructure is large, long term usage engineering
> > items that produce and support society for generations.
> >
>
> Yes, children are small, but millions of families contributions to them
> are large. A lot larger than to the infrastructure.
without the infrastructure, all you have is millions of families scratching
in the dirt..... like India, only worse.
> It is so especially since the right wingers mindless tax cuts and
> government hate neglected to upkeep our infrastructure. The right
> wingers mantra; 'Grab, steal as much as you can today, don't worry about
> tomorrow'.
tax cuts raise revenues and improve the economy, creating more capital
to invest. that the people didn't insist on the money being spent wisely
is their fault, but don't let that stop you from a good rant.
> >
> > children are an expendable item with a variable shelf life.
> >
>
> Families, society invest a lot of money in children, even before they
> are born. They don't pop out of Athena's head fully trained scientists,
> soldiers or doctors. Their productive life of 40 years may be shorter
> than a bridge, but the ARE the real 'infrastructure'.
no, they are not, as you prove in the next paragraph. nice "own goal".
> The corporate controlled government intended to neglect the 'human
> infrastructure' just as much as the physical one. Why? Because they can
> get unskilled labor from Mexico or skilled ones from India or China. The
> hell with the American people, they think, only profit matters.
thanks for proving my point that people are interchangeable. the countries
you named have more people, so the cost of each is less. basic economics.
> In spite of the hypocritical slogans their servants, the mass media
> propagate, the corporate oligarchy betrayed the people of the USA long
> time ago.
then the people who believe that need to get up off their ass and do
something productive about the issue. sitting on your ass whining in
Usenet is *not* productive, btw.
redc1c4,
dapra
And without people, you have a ghost town.
>
>>It is so especially since the right wingers mindless tax cuts and
>>government hate neglected to upkeep our infrastructure. The right
>>wingers mantra; 'Grab, steal as much as you can today, don't worry about
>>tomorrow'.
>
>
> tax cuts raise revenues and improve the economy, creating more capital
> to invest. that the people didn't insist on the money being spent wisely
> is their fault, but don't let that stop you from a good rant.
>
I don't want to re- and re-argue the trickle down theory's failures. But
no one, as far as I know, ever defined what is the proper level of
taxation. 0% would mean anarchy, 100% would go even further than communism.
We had a good country in the fifties with 90% top marginal tax rate.
(ignoring human rights!) The country did not fell apart. It gave rise to
the middle class.
Now, according to Buffet, his tax rate is lower than his secretaries.
And the middle class is disappearing. The corporate oligarchy is
establishing a global feudal system. You may like it, but if you do, you
certainly don't like democracy.
>
>
>>>children are an expendable item with a variable shelf life.
>>>
>>
>>Families, society invest a lot of money in children, even before they
>>are born. They don't pop out of Athena's head fully trained scientists,
>>soldiers or doctors. Their productive life of 40 years may be shorter
>>than a bridge, but the ARE the real 'infrastructure'.
>
>
> no, they are not, as you prove in the next paragraph. nice "own goal".
>
Well.., THEY 'ARE the real 'infrastructure'. Unless the oligarchy
destroys them.
>
>>The corporate controlled government intended to neglect the 'human
>>infrastructure' just as much as the physical one. Why? Because they can
>>get unskilled labor from Mexico or skilled ones from India or China. The
>>hell with the American people, they think, only profit matters.
>
>
> thanks for proving my point that people are interchangeable. the countries
> you named have more people, so the cost of each is less. basic economics.
>
Yeah, that's basic economics if you want to destroy your nation. I can't
think of any other example, when the ruling class deliberately destroyed
their own population.
>
>>In spite of the hypocritical slogans their servants, the mass media
>>propagate, the corporate oligarchy betrayed the people of the USA long
>>time ago.
>
>
> then the people who believe that need to get up off their ass and do
> something productive about the issue. sitting on your ass whining in
> Usenet is *not* productive, btw.
>
Explaining the situation is productive. Many of us don't know what's
going on. And yes, I did not tear up any pavements and did not men the
barricades to over throw the developing dictatorship. That's for the
young ones to do, when they realize what predicament their rulers put
them in.
>
> redc1c4,
>
Governor Swill
>> no they aren't. infrastructure is large, long term usage engineering
>> items that produce and support society for generations.
>>
>
>Yes, children are small, but millions of families contributions to them
>are large. A lot larger than to the infrastructure.
Which is as it should be.
Governor Swill
<red...@drunkenbastards.org.ies> wrote:
>> It is so especially since the right wingers mindless tax cuts and
>> government hate neglected to upkeep our infrastructure. The right
>> wingers mantra; 'Grab, steal as much as you can today, don't worry about
>> tomorrow'.
>
>tax cuts raise revenues and improve the economy, creating more capital
>to invest. that the people didn't insist on the money being spent wisely
>is their fault, but don't let that stop you from a good rant.
Can you explain the reverse? That is, how Clinton's tax increases led
off the longest post war economic expansion?
Governor Swill
Governor Swill
<NOTAREA...@FAM.NET> wrote:
>> So it was a State rather than a county or city bridge?
>>
>> Swill
>
>It was an interstate highway bridge.
In that case, the Feds are also involved. Think the Dems will try to
hang this on one Bush, too?
> While the State can certainly delegate
>repair operations to the County level who most often have the equipment for
>the repairs, responsibility for seeing that the repairs are completed and
>inspected rests with the State in this case in Minnesota.
. . . and Washington.
Governor Swill
<NOTAREA...@FAM.NET> wrote:
>>>> Try again!
>>>
>>> State bridge, state inspectors, state issue.
>>
>> Sounds Federal to me - From Glenn:
>>
>
>Whatever it may sound like to you, it is a state issue.
Hey now, YOU pointed out to ME that it was an interstate highway
bridge. That places it partially under Federal jurisdiction.
pba...@worldonline.nl
> MINNEAPOLIS - The entire span of an interstate bridge collapsed into the
> tons of concrete and twisted metal crashing into the water...
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/minnesota_bridge_collapse;_ylt=Av1Iywe1hvK...
>
> Well, we have no money to fix our infrastructure, but we spend $10
> billions a month on imperial aggression in Iraq to get the oil fields
> for EXXON and Chevron. So they can join OPEC, the oil cartel, and rip
> off the American consumers even more.
>
> Our politicians should be cooked in their oil, preferably over 200
> Fahrenheit.
You don't get it
Fixing the infrastucture means higher taxes
War in Iraq means . . . .
Well I'm sure it means something:)
Charlie Wolf
>
>"Charlie Wolf" <charli...@noemail.com> wrote in message
>news:ir74b353d1dteq5dm...@4ax.com...
>> If you knew anything about Minnesota, you'd know that it is a highly
>> taxed, very left wing liberal state -- particularly in Minneapolis/St.
>> Paul. We do have a Republican Governor because out-state Minnesota
>> tends more Republican.
>>
>> At any rate, this tragedy has nothing to do with Iraq, oil, OPEC or
>> Exxon. (Did that REALLY need to be explained to anyone????)
>>
>> It DOES have something to do with liberal Democrat state legislature
>> that spent billions --- yes, I said billions, of dollars on a light
>> rail transit system in Minneapolis that goes nowhere and doesn't do
>> anything to relieve traffic congestion. That money could have -
>> should have - been spent on roads, infrastructure .........
>> and bridge repair.
>>
>> Regards,
>
>Kind of like the New Orleans levees, right?
The New Orleans levees were (are) a necessity, that NO cannot exist
without - they aren't an unnecessary extravagence and a waste of money
- like Minneapolis Light Rail.
Does that help separate your apples and oranges for you?
Regards,
>
dapra
> Do you ever edit anything?
>
Edit? Meaning delete some previous posts? Sometimes.
Edit? My own comments? All the times. But self editing is far from perfect.
>
> Swill
Andrew F. Heil
> On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 22:49:26 -0400, dapra <dap...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >Jack Granade wrote:
>
> >> "dapra" <dap...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >>news:V7mdnQ61isP8oSzb...@comcast.com...
>
> >>>Mississippi River during evening rush hour Wednesday, sending vehicles,
> >>>tons of concrete and twisted metal crashing into the water...
>
> >>>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/minnesota_bridge_collapse;_ylt=Av1Iywe1hvK...
>
> >>>Well, we have no money to fix our infrastructure, but we spend $10
> >>>billions a month on imperial aggression in Iraq to get the oil fields for
> >>>EXXON and Chevron. So they can join OPEC, the oil cartel, and rip off the
> >>>American consumers even more.
>
> >>>Our politicians should be cooked in their oil, preferably over 200
> >>>Fahrenheit.
>
> >>This could be another right wing conspiracy and I will give you a hint.
> >>Bush used his remote control earthquake machine to bring down the bridge.
> >>This is the same machine he used in 911.
>
> >Who would you blame, but the government for ignoring the up keeping of
> >the infrastructure?
>
> >Oh! I'd guess illegal aliens didn't paint the bridge. Yeah, they are the
> >guilty ones.
>
> Whose to blame? That's an easy one; the leftist liberal Democrats who
> spend all the state's money on welfare programs including civil unions
> give-aways for homosexuals and don't leave enough to support the
> infrastructure:
>
> *Highlights of the Minnesota 2008-2009 House Democrat-Farm-Labor (DFL)
> Budget proposal include:
>
> ** $919 million in new education spending, including voluntary All-Day
> Kindergarten across the state.
>
> <aka - Welfare spending>
>
> ** A Cover-All-Kids health care initiative that will provide coverage
> for the approximately 70,000 Minnesota children currently without
> health insurance.
>
> <aka - Welfare spending>
>
> relief and reform, including school levy reductions, market value
> credits, property-tax refunds and increased local government aid.
>
> <aka - lets cut taxes so the state can't recoup the money (we DFL's
> are spending on Welfare) and in turn make the Governor look bad>
>
> Next question...
Oooooops!
Somehow, Al, you conveniently 'forgot' to mention the $520 million
doled out by the legislature last year for a new Twins stadium!
Oh, wait ... Minnesota's last two Republicans have spent the past two
decades advocating forking out hundreds of millions of dollars for
Carl Pohlad welfare as brilliant policy, all the while their
obsequeious fanboys such as yourself whine and snivel about, of all
things, education spending (which, dollar for dollar, returns about as
much on the investment as any public funding).
And before you start with the lies, it was a Republican Governor who
signed the bill after more Republicans than Democrats voted for it at
the statehouse.
Ever scratch your head and ponder why Minnesota is always in the top
three states when it comes to high school graduation rates?
Ever scratch your head and ponder why Minnesota is always in the top
three states when it comes to SAT and ACT scores?
Fortunately, idiots such as Pawlenty, the Minnesota GOP, and yourself
are fast remedying our excellent education system here in Minnesota.
Soon, we'll have an educational system on par with Mississippi ... and
then, after undermining the public schools, you'll piss and moan about
how deficient they are, and you'll probably be moronically clueless as
to the notion that gutting them as you advocate will be the cause of
the problems!
Think about it.
Back to you, dumbfuck (which is precisely what anyone who bitches
about education funding is).
Andrew F. Heil
> If you knew anything about Minnesota, you'd know that it is a highly
> taxed, very left wing liberal state -- particularly in Minneapolis/St.
> Paul. We do have a Republican Governor because out-state Minnesota
> tends more Republican.
>
> At any rate, this tragedy has nothing to do with Iraq, oil, OPEC or
> Exxon. (Did that REALLY need to be explained to anyone????)
>
> It DOES have something to do with liberal Democrat state legislature
> that spent billions --- yes, I said billions, of dollars on a light
> rail transit system in Minneapolis that goes nowhere and doesn't do
> anything to relieve traffic congestion.
Charlie conveniently lies - it was a Republican House of
Representatives in Minnesota who passes light rail. While the
Democrats currently control the House, it was controlled by the GOP
for eight years prior to January of this year.
Charlie also convenient cries about "liberal Democrats", conveniently
neglecting to mention that while Governor Tim Pawlenty (and you'd have
to a fucking idiot to call him a 'liberal Democrat') campaigned on a
promise to fight the expansion of light rail, as Governor he has
supported the expansion of light rail service to St. Cloud (the
NorthStar Commuter Rail Line). So far, Governor Pawlenty has signed
over a billion dollars worth of light rail funding (signing, I might
add, bills that did not pass with enough of a majority to survive a
veto had the Governor chosen to abide by his campaign promises).
But you just keep up with the false pretense that light fail is all a
"liberal Democrat" project, Charlie. Keep pretending a GOP House
didn't pass the bills as well as a Democratic Senate. Keep pretending
that Governor Pawlenty isn't signing those bills so fast he must be
getting writer's cramp about how.
You just can't bring yourself to be honest, can you Charlie?
Actually, I'm being unfair. You've probably swallowed the local Jason
Lewis/Tom Bernard bullshit hook-line-and-sinker to the extent you're
you're not being dishonest, you're just utterly ignorant of reality.
Back to you, Chuckles ...
redc1c4
(mercy snipage occurs)
> Back to you, dumbfuck (which is precisely what anyone who bitches
> about education funding is).
actually, a dumbfuck would be someone who thinks spending more money on
education means better education. $ =! results, unless you run a teachers
union.
one need look no farther than California to see the truth of that.
redc1c4,
but don't let me get in the way of a good rant & a sacred cow. %-)
Fester
I think we're in violent agreement here, in case you missed it. The DEMs
who run Louisiana and NO spent their budgets (and more) on extravagances
while allowing needed infrastructure to go to seed. Same story in the MN
and the Twin Cities. Unless, of course, you're argument that the bridge was
an unnecessary extravagance.
Fester
<pba...@worldonline.nl> wrote in message
news:1186169079.6...@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
WRONG!!! Fixing infrastucture means prioritizing state and local budgets.
But pols love to bleed off funds for things like bridges and levees to fund
their own pet projects.
> War in Iraq means . . . .
Iraq means national defense, the first duty of any government.
> Well I'm sure it means something:)
Try harder.
Christopher Helms
> In News 1186103380.622307.105...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com,, chatnoir at
> wolfbat3...@mindspring.com, typed this:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 2, 3:38 pm, "Andrealphus" <NOTAREALEMAI...@FAM.NET> wrote:
> >> In News 1186090014.659583.305...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com,,
> >> chatnoir at wolfbat3...@mindspring.com, typed this:
>
> >>> On Aug 2, 4:07 am, "Andrealphus" <NOTAREALEMAI...@FAM.NET> wrote:
> >>>> In News 5hddieF3ittn...@mid.individual.net,, Jim E at
> >>>> YD639...@SVN.net, typed this:
>
> >>>>>news:V7mdnQ61isP8oSzb...@comcast.com...
>
> >>>>>> sending vehicles, tons of concrete and twisted metal crashing
> >>>>>> into the water...
> >>>>>>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/minnesota_bridge_collapse;_ylt=Av1Iywe1hvK...
>
> >>>>>> Well, we have no money to fix our infrastructure, but we spend
> >>>>>> $10 billions a month on imperial aggression in Iraq to get the
> >>>>>> oil fields for EXXON and Chevron. So they can join OPEC, the oil
> >>>>>> cartel, and rip off the American consumers even more.
>
> >>>>>> Our politicians should be cooked in their oil, preferably over
> >>>>>> 200 Fahrenheit.
>
> >>>>> denied the money?
> >>>>> Another straw man dim argument surfaces from the cesspool.
>
> >>>>> Jim E
>
> >>>> That will no doubt be investigated. Bridges are assigned a
> >>>> regular preventative maintenance inspection schedule. No doubt
> >>>> the government, and the courts now, are going to want to know why
> >>>> this level of problem was not discovered prior to itscollapse.
>
> >>> It is obvious that the 'mere Gook rule' now applies to American's in
> >>> America as well as Iraqis' in Iraq!
>
> >> Well, I'm not entirely sure what that's supposed to mean, but from
> >> what I've heard on the news, the Bridge inspections and repair seems
> >> to be a State of Minnesota issue.
>
>
> State bridge, state inspectors, state issue.
That didn't stop Wolf Blitzer from demanding that John Edwards explain
what he would do about it as president.
chatnoir
> On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 11:14:44 GMT, "Andrealphus"
>
> >>>> Try again!
>
> >>> State bridge, state inspectors, state issue.
>
> >> Sounds Federal to me - From Glenn:
>
> >Whatever it may sound like to you, it is a state issue.
>
> Hey now, YOU pointed out to ME that it was an interstate highway
> bridge. That places it partially under Federal jurisdiction.
>
> Swill
> --
> Picture of the dayhttp://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html
It is better they fall, then Republicans can push for privaitzation of
public facilities! Just like they don't govern on purpose to show
people the government does not work, they avoid fixing infrastructure
to make it apparent to the people the Government does not repair
things and privatization is needed!:
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/08/03/1348236
headline:
Friday, August 3rd, 2007
Following Minnesota Bridge Collapse, New Scrutiny for Nation's Ever-
Privatizing Roads
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In the wake of Wednesday's fatal bridge collapse over the Mississippi
River in Minneapolis, the condition of the nation's highway system is
coming under increased scrutiny. The American Society of Civil
Engineers estimates it would take nearly $190 billion to fix more than
70,000 bridges deemed "structurally deficient." Declining public
funding has raised concerns governent officials are preparing for the
privatization of roads. We speak with James Ridgeway and Daniel
Schulman, authors of the Mother Jones article "The Highwaymen: Why You
Could Soon Be Paying Wall Street Investors, Australian Bankers and
Spanish Builders for the Privilege of Driving on American
Roads." [includes rush transcript]
In the wake of Wednesday's fatal bridge collapse over the Mississippi
River in Minneapolis, the condition of the nation's highway system is
coming under increased scrutiny. In 1990 the U.S. government rated the
Minneapolis Bridge as structurally deficient and possibly in need of
replacement. That rating was contained in the Department of
Transportation's National Bridge Inventory database. More than 70,000
bridges across the country have also been rated structurally
deficient. The American Society of Civil Engineers estimates it would
take nearly $190 billion to fix these bridges over the next two
decades.
In Minnesota, many residents have begun questioning the spending
priorities of the state and nation. Nick Coleman of the Star Tribune
wrote a column yesterday titled "Public Anger Will Follow Our Sorrow."
He points out that the motto of Governor Tim Pawlenty has been "No New
Taxes." Last spring Pawlenty vetoed a five cent gas tax increase - the
first in twenty years - that would have produced millions of dollars
in revenue to help fix roads. Nick Coleman wrote: "At the federal
level, the parsimony is worse, and so is the negligence. A trillion
spent in Iraq, while schools crumble, there aren't enough cops on the
street and bridges decay while our leaders cross their fingers and
ignore the rising chances of disaster."
On the national level, the highway trust fund is about to go broke.
When President Bush took office the fund had a $23 billion surplus,
but it is expected to be running a deficit by next year in part
because Bush killed an increase in gas taxes two years ago.
The columnist Jim Hightower recently accused the government of
deliberately defunding these vital infrastructure projects in an
effort to open the door to privatization. Investment firms including
Goldman Sachs, the Carlyle Group, Merrill Lynch and Morgan Stanley are
forming large funds to purchase publicly owned infrastructure
projects.
And the privatization of the nation's roads has already begun. In
Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels has leased the 157-mile Indiana Toll
Road to a foreign consortium from Spain and Australia for $3.85
billion over the next seventy-five years. By one calculation, the Toll
Road will generate $11 billion over the life of the lease. Indiana's
governor Mitch Daniels has been nicknamed Mr. Privatize by some for
his willingness to sell off public assets. Before coming to Indiana,
Daniels served as the President Bush's White House budget director.
And Indiana is not alone. In Illinois, officials signed a 99-year,
$1.8 billion lease to hand over the Chicago Skyway.
To talk more about the privatization of the nation's highways, we are
joined by two reporters from Mothers Jones magazine.
James Ridgeway and Daniel Schulman. Earlier this year they co-wrote an
article titled: "The Highwaymen: Why You Could Soon Be Paying Wall
Street Investors, Australian Bankers and Spanish Builders for the
Privilege of Driving on American Roads."
RUSH TRANSCRIPT
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AMY GOODMAN: In the wake of Wednesday's fatal bridge collapse over the
Mississippi River in Minneapolis, the condition of the nation's
highway system is coming under increased scrutiny. In 1990 the US
government rated the Minneapolis Bridge as structurally deficient and
possibly in need of replacement. That rating was contained in the
Department of Transportation's National Bridge Inventory database.
More than 70,000 bridges across the country have also been rated
structurally deficient. The American Society of Civil Engineers
estimates it would take nearly $190 billion to fix these bridges over
the next two decades.
In Minnesota, many residents have begun questioning the spending
priorities of the state and the nation. Nick Coleman of the Star
Tribune wrote a column yesterday entitled "Public Anger Will Follow
Our Sorrow." He points out the motto of Governor Tim Pawlenty has been
"No New Taxes." Last spring, Pawlenty vetoed a five-cent gas tax
increase, the first in twenty years, that would have produced millions
of dollars in revenue to help fix roads. Nick Coleman wrote, "At the
federal level, the parsimony is worse, and so is the negligence. A
trillion spent in Iraq, while schools crumble, there aren't enough
cops on the street and bridges decay while our leaders cross their
fingers and ignore the rising chances of disaster."
On the national level, the highway trust fund is about to go broke.
When President Bush took office the fund had a $23 billion surplus,
but it's expected to be running a deficit by next year, in part
because Bush killed an increase in gas taxes two years ago.
The columnist Jim Hightower recently accused the government of
deliberately defunding these vital infrastructure projects in an
effort to open the door to privatization. Investment firms including
Goldman Sachs, the Carlyle Group, Merrill Lynch and Morgan Stanley are
forming large funds to purchase publicly owned infrastructure
projects.
And the privatization of the nation's roads has already begun. In
Indiana, Governor Mitch Daniels has leased the 157-mile Indiana Toll
Road to a foreign consortium from Spain and Australia for $3.85
billion over the next seventy-five years. By one calculation, the Toll
Road will generate $11 billion over the life of the lease. Indiana's
Governor Mitch Daniels has been nicknamed "Mr. Privatize" by some for
his willingness to sell off public assets. Before coming to Indiana,
Daniels served as the President Bush's White House budget director.
And Indiana is not alone. In Illinois, officials signed a ninety-nine-
year, $1.8 billion lease to hand over the Chicago Skyway.
To talk more about the privatization of the nation's highways, we're
joined by two reporters from Mothers Jones magazine: James Ridgeway
and Daniel Schulman. Earlier this year they co-wrote an article
entitled "The Highwaymen: Why You Could Soon Be Paying Wall Street
Investors, Australian Bankers and Spanish Builders for the Privilege
of Driving on American Roads."
We welcome you both to Democracy Now! And I want to begin with Daniel
Schulman. Why don't you start off by giving us the background on the
privatization -- or the building of US highways. You talk about
President Eisenhower. ... (cont)
dapra
> <pba...@worldonline.nl> wrote in message
[...]
>>War in Iraq means . . . .
>
>
> Iraq means national defense, the first duty of any government.
>
You are a really brainwashed one. Attacking, occupying a nation for 4
years, 6(?) thousand miles away is defense? It's not. It's an imperial
aggression.
Would you ever realize imperial aggression if the Chines, or put in any
nation, would break into your house and arrest you?
The sad part of it is not, that you are brainwashed, but you would be a
collaborator with the occupiers to make a buck.
Hugh Gibbons
Governor Swill <governo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 17:31:24 GMT, redc1c4
> <red...@drunkenbastards.org.ies> wrote:
>
> >> Besides that, kids are the ultimate long term infrastructure
> >> in any country.
> >
> >no they aren't. infrastructure is large, long term usage engineering
> >items that produce and support society for generations.
> >
> >children are an expendable item with a variable shelf life.
>
> Cruel, but a fair assessment.
It's perverse. Children are people, among those for whom infrastructure
is created.
Hugh Gibbons
Governor Swill <governo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 02:00:47 GMT, "Andrealphus"
> <NOTAREA...@FAM.NET> wrote:
>
> >>> Well, I'm not entirely sure what that's supposed to mean, but from
> >>> what I've heard on the news, the Bridge inspections and repair seems
> >>> to be a State of Minnesota issue.
> >>
> >> Try again!
> >
> >State bridge, state inspectors, state issue.
>
> So it was a State rather than a county or city bridge?
>
It's an interstate highway.
Hugh Gibbons
Governor Swill <governo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 10:58:11 GMT, "Andrealphus"
> <NOTAREA...@FAM.NET> wrote:
>
> >> So it was a State rather than a county or city bridge?
> >>
> >> Swill
> >
> >It was an interstate highway bridge.
>
> In that case, the Feds are also involved. Think the Dems will try to
> hang this on one Bush, too?
Some already have. It's not his fault in particular, but he's part of
the generality of politicians who have ignored infrastructure
maintainance.
redc1c4
that's a st00pid person asking another st00pid person a st00pid question.
redc1c4,
and it obviously got a st00pid person all excited when he did. %-)
redc1c4
you'd do it because you hate America and yourself.
redc1c4,
(the second one i can understand: everyone dislikes you. %-)
Hugh Gibbons
"pba...@worldonline.nl" <pba...@worldonline.nl> wrote:
It means a lot of other things were ignored.
Hugh Gibbons
redc1c4 <red...@drunkenbastards.org.ies> wrote:
>
> tax cuts raise revenues and improve the economy, creating more capital
> to invest. that the people didn't insist on the money being spent wisely
> is their fault, but don't let that stop you from a good rant.
Tax cuts do not raise revenues. Taxes raise revenues.
Hugh Gibbons
dapra <dap...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Now, according to Buffet, his tax rate is lower than his secretaries.
> And the middle class is disappearing. The corporate oligarchy is
> establishing a global feudal system. You may like it, but if you do, you
> certainly don't like democracy.
Buffet is correct. He pays no social security tax on his income,
because it is all capital gains. He pays the top capital gains
tax rate of 15%. His secretary pays a wage tax of 7.625% (I think) on
her income and another (hidden) 7.5% that her employer pays on her
behalf. So before she even pays her first dollar of income tax, she's
paying a rate than Mr. Buffet. Her income tax is probably in the
middle-income range, so it probably amounts to roughly 10% of her total
income.
Andrealphus
governo...@gmail.com, typed this:
> On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 10:58:11 GMT, "Andrealphus"
> <NOTAREA...@FAM.NET> wrote:
>
>>> So it was a State rather than a county or city bridge?
>>>
>>> Swill
>>
>> It was an interstate highway bridge.
>
> In that case, the Feds are also involved. Think the Dems will try to
> hang this on one Bush, too?
Involved in certain funding issues, but not for the maintenance and repair.
>
>> While the State can certainly delegate
>> repair operations to the County level who most often have the
>> equipment for the repairs, responsibility for seeing that the
>> repairs are completed and inspected rests with the State in this
>> case in Minnesota.
>
> . . . and Washington.
>
No. There are federal inspectors that turn reports over to the state, but
the fed is not repsponsible for their repair.
Andrealphus
governo...@gmail.com, typed this:
> On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 11:14:44 GMT, "Andrealphus"
> <NOTAREA...@FAM.NET> wrote:
>
>>>>> Try again!
>>>>
>>>> State bridge, state inspectors, state issue.
>>>
>>> Sounds Federal to me - From Glenn:
>>>
>>
>> Whatever it may sound like to you, it is a state issue.
>
> Hey now, YOU pointed out to ME that it was an interstate highway
> bridge. That places it partially under Federal jurisdiction.
>
> Swill
The maintenance and repair is not a federal issue.
Andrealphus
Helms at Chrish...@yahoo.com, typed this:
Polticians lie and point fingers coming up to an election year. Huh? Who
knew?
Free Lunch
Hugh Gibbons <hugh_g...@dontsendmeemail.net> wrote in
<hugh_gibbons-1D03...@newsgroups.comcast.net>:
The Wall Street Journal Idiotorial Page will be shocked to find out that
their Laffer Lies are not being believed.
redc1c4
the infrastructure makes it possible for the children to live something
other than a hand to mouth existence for their nasty, brutish & short life.
here in the PRC, we have refused to build refineries, LNG ports, power
generation plants, support industry, and have neglected the power
transmission system, the water transport system, sewer systems, and
the transportation grid.
then everyone whines about the high cost of living, and poor quality
of life.
people are an expendable item. infrastructure is a capital investment.
redc1c4,
i'm not saying it's nice, i'm just saying it's true. %-)
Eris
You are giving the term "Drama Queen" a negative connotation! What
next my little attention whore?