Eric Holder to Defend Targeted Killings of U.S. Citizens

[Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.]

-------------------------------------
Attorney General Eric Holder is expected to offer a legal defense
today of Obama’s campaign to assassinate U.S. citizens overseas who
have alleged ties to al-Qaeda. Holder’s speech comes five months after
a U.S. drone killed the U.S.-born cleric Anwar al-Awlaki in Yemen.
Another drone in Yemen later killed al-Awlaki’s teenage son, also a
U.S. citizen.
http://www.democracynow.org/2012/3/5/headlines#3
--------------------------------------

proven guilty by secret committee
;-)

[bill]

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 11:25:38 -0800, Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D. wrote:

> ------------------------------------- Attorney General Eric Holder is
> expected to offer a legal defense today of Obama’s campaign to
> assassinate U.S. citizens overseas who have alleged ties to al-Qaeda.
> Holder’s speech comes five months after a U.S. drone killed the
> U.S.-born cleric Anwar al-Awlaki in Yemen. Another drone in Yemen later
> killed al-Awlaki’s teenage son, also a U.S. citizen.

Why are you more concerned with US citizens being blown to bits.

Aren't non US citizens people as well?

--
"Hopefully the fair wind will resume, or this may well take all day."

Admiral Collingwood on being becalmed under the guns of six French ships-
of-the-line at Trafalgar

[Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.]

bill wrote:

> On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 11:25:38 -0800, Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D. wrote:
>
>
>>------------------------------------- Attorney General Eric Holder is
>>expected to offer a legal defense today of Obama’s campaign to
>>assassinate U.S. citizens overseas who have alleged ties to al-Qaeda.
>>Holder’s speech comes five months after a U.S. drone killed the
>>U.S.-born cleric Anwar al-Awlaki in Yemen. Another drone in Yemen later
>>killed al-Awlaki’s teenage son, also a U.S. citizen.
>
>
> Why are you more concerned with US citizens being blown to bits.
>
> Aren't non US citizens people as well?
>

I'm not and yes.
;-)


--
Each person has an individual responsibility to
determine if his actions are moral, and no government
or army may ever take that responsibility away.

definition:
murder - the unjustifiable (immoral) killing of people, NO EXCEPTIONS.

[Bill Clarke]

In article <gO2dnVG8552tjsjS...@supernews.com>, Dr. Vincent Quin,
Ph.D. says...

I didn't know Obama had the balls to kill al-Qaeda. Thanks Vinny.

Phuoc Vin

[Jonathan]

"bill" <black...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:jj344l$pcp$2...@dont-email.me...

> On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 11:25:38 -0800, Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D. wrote:
>
>> ------------------------------------- Attorney General Eric Holder is

>> expected to offer a legal defense today of Obamaā?Ts campaign to

>> assassinate U.S. citizens overseas who have alleged ties to al-Qaeda.

>> Holderā?Ts speech comes five months after a U.S. drone killed the

>> U.S.-born cleric Anwar al-Awlaki in Yemen. Another drone in Yemen later

>> killed al-Awlakiā?Ts teenage son, also a U.S. citizen.

>

> Why are you more concerned with US citizens being blown to bits.
>
> Aren't non US citizens people as well?

Yes, but you don't have to lead 'em as much


s

[Jonathan]

"Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <dr...@jameford.edu> wrote in message
news:gO2dnVG8552tjsjS...@supernews.com...

>
> -------------------------------------
> Attorney General Eric Holder is expected to offer a legal defense
> today of Obama's campaign to assassinate U.S. citizens overseas who
> have alleged ties to al-Qaeda.

Back in World War 2, people that fought against the enemy
while dressed as civilians were called spies. Terrorists are spies
that attack innocent civilians. When it comes to how much
due process these folks deserve, they should be at the very
bottom of any list.

>Holder's speech comes five months after
> a U.S. drone killed the U.S.-born cleric Anwar al-Awlaki in Yemen.
> Another drone in Yemen later killed al-Awlaki's teenage son, also a
> U.S. citizen.

The collateral blood is on the hands of the terrorists, as they
are the ones hiding among civilians, contrary to all laws
and moralities. And keep in mind, the rule of law only
applies to those that are within it's reach. Those that
operate outside the rule of law can only be dealt with
by 'wild-west' rules. Which means pre-emptive strikes
are considered justified, and past behavior and intent
are enough probable cause to act.

We can't let the terrorists have it both ways without
losing to them.

s

[Andrew Swallow]

On 05/03/2012 19:28, bill wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 11:25:38 -0800, Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D. wrote:
>
>> ------------------------------------- Attorney General Eric Holder is
>> expected to offer a legal defense today of Obama’s campaign to
>> assassinate U.S. citizens overseas who have alleged ties to al-Qaeda.
>> Holder’s speech comes five months after a U.S. drone killed the
>> U.S.-born cleric Anwar al-Awlaki in Yemen. Another drone in Yemen later
>> killed al-Awlaki’s teenage son, also a U.S. citizen.
>
> Why are you more concerned with US citizens being blown to bits.
>
> Aren't non US citizens people as well?
>

None Americans outside the USA have few rights under the US Constitution
and laws.

Andrew Swallow

[Andrew Swallow]

No, spies work for a sovereign entity like a state. Terrorist are
bandits or when at sea on in the air pirates. There are rules covering
the arrest, trial and execution of pirates.

Andrew Swallow

[Ian B MacLure]

"Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <dr...@jameford.edu> wrote in

news:gO2dnVG8552tjsjS...@supernews.com:

No, their actions convicted them.
That they were US citizens in no way immunized them from
military action.
If anything it made terminating their rancid posteriors
all the more necessary.

IBM

[Ian B MacLure]

Andrew Swallow <am.sw...@btinternet.com> wrote in news:-
JWdndksrdzaHsjS...@bt.com:

[snip]

> No, spies work for a sovereign entity like a state. Terrorist are
> bandits or when at sea on in the air pirates. There are rules covering
> the arrest, trial and execution of pirates.

The rules for arrest, trial, and execution ought to be:

1. Catch red handed
2. Hold them long enough to figure out they are
3. String 'em up from the yardarm or reasonable facsimile thereof.

IBM

[bill]

As I understand it there's no constitutional right not to be blown to
bits while consorting with criminals laid down in the US constitution.

The USA is an equal opportunity bomber...

[bill]

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 11:43:10 -0800, Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D. wrote:

> bill wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 11:25:38 -0800, Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D. wrote:
>>
>>
>>>------------------------------------- Attorney General Eric Holder is
>>>expected to offer a legal defense today of Obama’s campaign to
>>>assassinate U.S. citizens overseas who have alleged ties to al-Qaeda.
>>>Holder’s speech comes five months after a U.S. drone killed the
>>>U.S.-born cleric Anwar al-Awlaki in Yemen. Another drone in Yemen later
>>>killed al-Awlaki’s teenage son, also a U.S. citizen.
>>
>>
>> Why are you more concerned with US citizens being blown to bits.
>>
>> Aren't non US citizens people as well?
>>
>>
> I'm not and yes.
> ;-)

Well off you go then Doc.

Start listing the non US citizens blown to bit and how sorry you feel for
them.

[Andrew Swallow]

On 06/03/2012 08:24, bill wrote:
> On Tue, 06 Mar 2012 03:16:34 +0000, Andrew Swallow wrote:
>
>> On 05/03/2012 19:28, bill wrote:
>>> On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 11:25:38 -0800, Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D. wrote:
>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------- Attorney General Eric Holder is
>>>> expected to offer a legal defense today of Obama’s campaign to
>>>> assassinate U.S. citizens overseas who have alleged ties to al-Qaeda.
>>>> Holder’s speech comes five months after a U.S. drone killed the
>>>> U.S.-born cleric Anwar al-Awlaki in Yemen. Another drone in Yemen
>>>> later killed al-Awlaki’s teenage son, also a U.S. citizen.
>>>
>>> Why are you more concerned with US citizens being blown to bits.
>>>
>>> Aren't non US citizens people as well?
>>>
>>>
>> None Americans outside the USA have few rights under the US Constitution
>> and laws.
>>
>> Andrew Swallow
>
>
> As I understand it there's no constitutional right not to be blown to
> bits while consorting with criminals laid down in the US constitution.
>
> The USA is an equal opportunity bomber...
>
>

Under the 5th and 6th Amendment Americans are meant to have a trial
before they are killed.

Andrew Swallow

[Jim Wilkins]

"Andrew Swallow" <am.sw...@btinternet.com> wrote in message

>>
>>
> Under the 5th and 6th Amendment Americans are meant to have a trial
> before they are killed.
>
> Andrew Swallow

Yes, we shouldn't act like James Bond and kill terrorists hiding in
countries with corrupt / ineffective / hostile governments.

How would you bring them to trial?

jsw

[Richard]

On Mar 5, 6:55 pm, "Jonathan" <Callinst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "bill" <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>
> news:jj344l$pcp$2...@dont-email.me...
>
> > On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 11:25:38 -0800, Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D. wrote:
>
> >> ------------------------------------- Attorney General Eric Holder is

> >> expected to offer a legal defense today of Obamaâ?Ts campaign to

> >> assassinate U.S. citizens overseas who have alleged ties to al-Qaeda.

> >> Holderâ?Ts speech comes five months after a U.S. drone killed the

> >> U.S.-born cleric Anwar al-Awlaki in Yemen. Another drone in Yemen later

> >> killed al-Awlakiâ?Ts teenage son, also a U.S. citizen.

>
> > Why are you more concerned with US citizens being blown to bits.
>
> > Aren't non US citizens people as well?
>
> Yes, but you don't have to lead 'em as much
>
> s
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > --
> > "Hopefully the fair wind will resume, or this may well take all day."
>
> > Admiral Collingwood on being becalmed under the guns of six French ships-
> > of-the-line at Trafalgar

King Louis - They are my people! I am their sovereign! I LOVE Them.
Pull!

[bill]

Not sure about that.

I think they have to be arrested and charged first.

I imagine if they went to the nearest US consulate and asked to be taken
into the charge of the FBI they'd be taken somewhere safe prior to trial.

[bill]

He was killed in Pakistan.

Pakistan is a US ally who receives billions of dollars worth of military
aid every year.

Are you saying that Pakistan is not friendly towards the USA?

If they're not friendly then why do the USA give them all that money and
all those bombs?

[Jim Wilkins]

"bill" <black...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:jj5fbb$2p0$3...@dont-email.me...

>
> Are you saying that Pakistan is not friendly towards the USA?
>
> If they're not friendly then why do the USA give them all that money
> and
> all those bombs?

I'm not convinced that Great Britain is inherently friendly toward the
USA.

[bill]

I don't think we're currently in receipt of US any aid either.

Indeed, we've even paid off our war debt to you.

Let me know when you want to invade someone again and I'll see what I can
do about sending Pakistani troops for your support rather than British...

[Ben]

On Mar 5, 1:25 pm, "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@jameford.edu>
wrote:

In war, all nations kills their own citizens. The U.S. civil war is a
clear example in which millions American citizens killed. President
Lincoln is honored as the national hero after he won the war. All
sides kill civilians. If America don't kill your own citizens when
needed, it will loose the war and get condemned by the world. Vietnam
war is an example. Presidents Johnson and Nixon did not have courage
to put opponents into intern camp like Roosevel put Japanese and
German American in intern camps and lost the war. Roosevelt won the
war and is honored as a national hero. Johnson and Nixon retired in
shame, many Americans want them to be tried as war criminals because
they did not have the courage to lead the nation to win. In war,
leaders must not hesitate to kill opponents like Stalin, Mao and Ho.
They became their national heroes. If a leader doesn't have the
courage to kill, he will loose the war and get condemned like
presidents Johnson, Nixon, Bush Jr., and may be Obama. Had Hitler won
the war he would become the world hero and Rossevelt, Stalin, and
Churchill would be on trial in Nuremberg war crime court. The rule for
wars is to win at any cost, even using100 to kill 1, and even when
the leader have to destroy the entire earth population with zillions
of nuclear warheads.

[bill]

On Tue, 06 Mar 2012 10:36:32 -0800, Ben wrote:

In war, leaders must not
> hesitate to kill opponents like Stalin, Mao and Ho.

Interesting idea.

When did anyone try it?

[Dan]

On 3/6/2012 12:36 PM, Ben wrote:
> The U.S. civil war is a
> clear example in which millions American citizens killed.

Less than 700,000 died in that war.

http://www.civilwarhome.com/casualties.htm

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Ken S. Tucker]

bill wrote:
> On Tue, 06 Mar 2012 12:33:26 -0500, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>
>> "bill" <black...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:jj5fbb$2p0$3...@dont-email.me...
>>> Are you saying that Pakistan is not friendly towards the USA?
>>>
>>> If they're not friendly then why do the USA give them all that money
>>> and
>>> all those bombs?
>> I'm not convinced that Great Britain is inherently friendly toward the
>> USA.
>
> I don't think we're currently in receipt of US any aid either.
>
> Indeed, we've even paid off our war debt to you.
>
> Let me know when you want to invade someone again and I'll see what I can
> do about sending Pakistani troops for your support rather than British...

Recall the Marshall Plan and the fact USA had to spend $billions
on defending Europe and the Britsies after WW2 from commies, much
of it spent on bases employing locals, so the $ circulated.
Ken

[Dan]

On 3/6/2012 12:58 PM, bill wrote:
> On Tue, 06 Mar 2012 10:36:32 -0800, Ben wrote:
>
> In war, leaders must not
>> hesitate to kill opponents like Stalin, Mao and Ho.
>
> Interesting idea.
>
> When did anyone try it?

It was probably considered by whomever they were at war with at the
time. I wouldn't be surprised if the U.S. had hoped to take Ho Chi Min
out even if not deliberately targeted. As a guess I am sure it crossed
Hitler's mind to take out Stalin. Once he got in power Mao never had a
major conflict so I'd hesitate to even hazard a guess there.

During WW2 the Allies assumed anyone taking Hitler's place would have
been more competent had he been taken out.

I have a feeling that the ancient policy of "only a king may kill a
king" is still in effect at least where one head of state considers
another. In modern warfare that puts heads of state off limits.

[Andrew Swallow]

Charged - that is part of due process see 5th and 6th Amendments.
Arrested - covered by 4th.

[quote]
Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure. Ratified 12/15/1791.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers,
and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be
violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause,
supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place
to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Amendment 5 - Trial and Punishment, Compensation for Takings. Ratified
12/15/1791.

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous
crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in
cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in
actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be
subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or
limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness
against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without
due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use,
without just compensation.

Amendment 6 - Right to Speedy Trial, Confrontation of Witnesses.
Ratified 12/15/1791.

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a
speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district
wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have
been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and
cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against
him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor,
and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.
[/quote]

Andrew Swallow

[Andrew Swallow]

On 06/03/2012 16:51, bill wrote:
> On Tue, 06 Mar 2012 09:54:30 -0500, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>
>> "Andrew Swallow"<am.sw...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Under the 5th and 6th Amendment Americans are meant to have a trial
>>> before they are killed.
>>>
>>> Andrew Swallow
>>
>> Yes, we shouldn't act like James Bond and kill terrorists hiding in
>> countries with corrupt / ineffective / hostile governments.
>>
>> How would you bring them to trial?
>
> He was killed in Pakistan.
>
> Pakistan is a US ally who receives billions of dollars worth of military
> aid every year.
>
> Are you saying that Pakistan is not friendly towards the USA?
>
> If they're not friendly then why do the USA give them all that money and
> all those bombs?
>
>

People you bribe are rarely your friends.

Andrew Swallow

[Daryl]

As we should have learned a long time ago, it's cheaper to feed
'em than it is ti kill 'em.

--
http://tvmoviesforfree.com
for free movies and Nostalgic TV. Tons of Military shows and
programs.

[Andrew Swallow]

President Bush made it clear that countries that harbour terrorists
would be considered enemies of the USA. Afghanistan was duly invaded
and prison camps created. The USA appears to be working its way through
the list of other troublesome countries.

The Law of the Sea makes piracy a crime - Article 105.
<http://www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/closindx.htm>
The Geneva Convention makes war crimes a crime and allows a country to
try any enemies it catches.

This covers most cases. US politicians could warn countries that send
human bombers against the USA that the US Air Force can bomb back.

Discussion point. The next time the USA goes to war with a terrorist
harbouring country should the Police HQ, the Ministry of Justice and the
Law Courts be bombed to in Voltaire's words "pour encourager les autres".

Andrew Swallow

[Jonathan]

"Dan" <B24...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:cJydnURTTp0-88vS...@giganews.com...

But I think that should only apply to legitimate heads of state, not
self-appointed dictators, who are generally nothing more than
viscous gangs of criminals.

[bill]

Look, if you turn up to save the world and you're two years late you
get to pay to clean up the mess.

If you turn up on time with everybody else there isn't as big a mess to
clean up.

[bill]

So that's a 'never been tried' then...