Madness Archive

[Nina Zahra]

Goingback all the way to the WoK I've been theorizing as to why Szeth hears the screams that he does. It never seemed like too big a mystery but it was still interesting. When we finally got a straight answer in Oatbringer I was initially satisfied until I thought about it a little bit more. Here's the explanation Nale gives:

It made sense and was along the lines of what I'd been thinking for awhile. The only thing different about Szeth was that he was using the Honorblade, so it just made sense until I realized we saw the exact same thing happen to Dalinar and Eshonai, people who had never wielded one.

So when trying to understand why these characters are all experiencing the same phenomenon I decided to look into all accounts we had of the different Herald's Madness'. I came across this quote from Nale:

That last part stood out to me in particular, but I didn't really have an idea of what could have set Ishar apart from the rest until I remembered a particularly relevant part from a Dalinar flashback. When Dalinar turns to drinking to push away the voices he now hears he befriends all of our favorite mad beggar, Jezrien, who seems to be rambling through their conversation incoherently. He has this to say at one point:

When I first read this line I thought it was just Jezrien being able to see some effect from Nergaoul on Dalinar through some strange Herald-sense but the line I emphasized gave me pause this time. He implies that he can legitimately relate to what he sees in Dalinar and quite heavy handedly says that Unmade are the cause, then says that he is able to even sense them, implying a Connection. Linking this idea of Heralds and the Unmade I remembered this WoB:

I'd always assumed that the Herald's madness was mostly because of the torture they endured, but perhaps that torture wasn't purely physical, as surely Ishar wouldn't have been able to mentally withstand it better than Taln. Now, I don't mean to imply that Ishar isn't mad, he obviously is, but there must be some reason both Nale and Ash believe him to be sane. The below deathrattle from Taln's perspective made me even more certain that the torture they endured involved more then just pain, and that they possibly were each assigned an Unmade, leading the rest of the Heralds to believe that Ishar wasn't going through what the rest of them were:

zas678

Can Odium influence people the same way that Ruin can?

Brandon Sanderson

Well, you see, the kandra and the koloss have a "hole" in them that allows Ruin to come in and take over. The Parshendi naturally are protected from this, but when they expose themselves to the storms, and the spren come in, many of these spren have that kind of "hole" in them, and that's what allows Odium to take control of them.

zas678

No, I'm talking about how Ruin was able to push people, place things in their minds, stuff like that. Can Odium do the same thing?

Brandon Sanderson

Well, Odium wasn't around when those people were created, so it's a little different for him than Ruin. So if he influences people in that way, it's through the Unmade.

Looking back, we've seen stuff exactly like how Ruin's influence is described from both Dalinar and Eshonai, two people pivotal to Odium's plans who he would have wanted influence over. Read the below quotes:

It was difficult, for those old rhythms were so dull. Buried within those new rhythms, the names of which she intuited somehow, she could almost hear voices speaking to her. Advising her. If her people had received such guidance over the centuries, they surely would not have fallen so far.

This is almost exactly what we see in Mistborn. Looking back, I'm surprised i didn't find the lack of similar behavior in Venli in Oathbringer suspicious. Throughout the book she seems much more level headed then Eshonai did despite also holding a form of power and not being any further in the Oaths than Eshonai was for almost the entire time, and guess what? No screaming either.

Looking back we even see similar behavior with Szeth. Remember his behavior in WoR, when we know he was almost definitely being closely followed by Odium. These quotes are before his before his first attack on Dalinar:

Darkness. Wind from the depths of nothingness, battering him. He felt as if he were standing above the void itself, Damnation, known as Braize in the old songs. Home to demons and monsters. He stepped out hesitantly, light from the still-open door spilling onto the wet balcony.

Bright sunlight shone down to banish the shadows, which kept those screams to a minimum. The screamers deserved their deaths, of course. They should have killed Szeth. I hate you. I hate . . . everyone. Glories within, what a strange emotion.

Sounds exactly like the effect of an Unmade to me, almost exactly like what we see from someone getting rioted too un-subtly. The compounded effect of this paired with his bond to the Honorblade and subsequent stronger connection to the Unmade (showcased by Jezrien), could explain why Szeth's madness seems so much worse than Dalinar or Eshonai's.

In conclusion, it seems like the Heralds hold a direct Connection to the Unmade, and that their direct effect could cause the deaths of those you kill to haunt you. It makes sense, as we know that death is associated with powering the various Unmade's effects. I'm open to criticism on a lot of the details of this theory, especially the parts about Ishar, but overall I think Jezrien's quote is a pretty blatant hint towards the foundation of this theory holding some truth. Let me know what you guys think!

Uhhh, Szeth's screams. Uhhm, I'm trying to decide how to answer this. It is not, see here's the thing. What we would call magical may not be considered magical in the Cosmere, but it depends on your definition of magic. Would Szeth if he were on our planet and have done those things would he hear those screams, probably not, but would someone else in the Cosmere who had gone through what he had gone through hear those screams, yes.

For a while I thought an Unmade was following Szeth around consuming his victims and that's why Szeth hears them. Doesn't seem to be Yelig-nar, his consumption has been shown to be more direct and literal, but more than one Unmade may be able to feast on the dead. The Aimian cook in the OB interlude is worried about "those" that can exploit the souls of the dead:

The wording here is so vague I'm positive he slipped out of my question; "but would someone else in the Cosmere who had gone through what he had gone through hear those screams, yes." This doesnt really say anything. How many people in the Cosmere have gone through what Szeth has gone through? He's done and been a part of some very crazy unusual thing.

Of course in this, Dalinar case seems out of place, an oddity. But if we use the WoB about Kaladin be so skilled with the Spear as a child as result of the future skill he would develop thanks to Syl bond and the time indipentant spiritual nature.

It's possible Dalinar and the screams fit that too. Dalinat had connections to tje spiritual a not magic user has not, because he will bond the Stormfather and this affect his soul in a sort of retroactively way.

I am more interested when the madness got worse for them. If perhaps they were able handle the damage while Honor was alive or if their madness worsened as Tal'n started to break. Do we know when their madnesses first manifested?

We've seen him regain lucidity before (when he sees Shallan Lightweave) and while it wasnt as full a restoration as in OB the fact that it didn't happen during any kind of event related to Honor, or his perpendicularity (like a highstorm), leads me to believe that it had more to do with him seeing Ash.

I think the strongest hint to me that the Unmade and the spiritual screams are linked is demonstrated by Dalinar. Dalinar had previously heard the screams in his mind after the death of Evi and Rathalas and it was driving him mad. When Cultivation gave him his blessing and curse (essentially sealing off the part of his soul that remembered Evi and his violent past, along with his past connection with The Thrill) both the screams in his mind as well as his susceptibility to The Thrill vanished completely for several years. Both the screams and the Thrill returned to Dalinar when his Cultivation memory block and soul band aid faded, allowing the Unmade access to his soul once again.

Personally I think the most likely Unmade to cause this effect is Dai'Gonarthis, aka The Black Fisher. Partly because we know almost nothing about him, but his few references have been extremely interesting:

We have a rough idea what the other mentioned Unmade do. I think it's interesting that Ahu mentions The Black Fisher first though. Perhaps Dai-Gonarthis uses the screams from the spiritual realm to psychologically torture humans with guilt, and then tempts them with the narcotic relief of "the void", offering an escape from their screams and suffering via emotional emptiness and apathy. We've seen Szeth drift in this direction before, emotionally numbing himself to escape the pain of the guilt. We see Moash doing a similar thing now, retreating into the emotional void to avoid thinking about the pain he saw in Kaladin's eyes. I think both connect well with that earlier Death Rattle of "Let me no longer hurt".

@Subvisual Haze Cultivation didn't sealed in any way his Connection to Nergaoul, He still felt the Thrill for the whole time after that. He simply tried to avoid that and his bond with the Stormfather allowed him another degree of protection to mostly seal off the Thrill for him under normal circumstances.

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