DOUBLE TEAM RULE HELPS ELIMINATE POACHING??

[Steve Rieck a.k.a.Leak]

Dos the double team rule only apply to throwers, or also to recievers?
i.e. a poacher momentarily coming closer than 10 ft as he flies in to
block/intercept the disc, when all the other O players are across the
field, & the original marker is still within 10
ft??....Thanks....Leaker

[Jon Bauman]

I think the rule's pretty clear.

XVI.B.2 (emphasis added):

Double-team: If a defensive player other than the marker is within three meters of any pivot of the thrower without also being within three meters of and guarding (II.G) another offensive player, it is a double team. However, merely running across this area is not a double team.

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[Benjamin Supnik]

If I understand the definitions correctly, the thrower isn't the
thrower anymore once he, um, throws the disk. So the poacher could be
within 3 meters of the former thrower after the release legally,
regardless of who else is around. But if the poacher enters the 3
meter zone before the throw and it really is a poach, that's a double
team before the throw.

[Jon Bauman]

The thrower stays the thrower until someone else catches the disc or it's turned over.

II.T.5:

An offensive player in possession of, or who has most recently possessed, the disc, is the thrower.

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[Steve Rieck]

Thanks Jon, I had seen that, but didn't see where receivers where excluded. So if 2 or more defenders surround a receiver with a 5 ft radius from 

him there is no double team violation????..............................Leaker

[Jon Bauman]

Receivers don't need to be excluded. The rule only applies to the thrower because that's all it says. In general, if something is not prohibited, it's allowed. There is no rule against any number of defenders surrounding a receiver.

[Darrin]

Situation: I am on D, guarding a player about 2.5 meters from the
thrower, who is being marked. A dump goes up to the person I am
guarding. I stop guarding my player (I am no longer reacting to him)
and go for the disc. Does this meet the definition of a double team?
It seems to me that it would, unless I am missing something.

I know that even if it does meet the definition of a double team, any
turnover would stand (from a previous discussion about needing to call
double team before throwing the disc). But, I am also thinking about
XIX.G "players are similarly expected to make every effort to avoid
violating them [the rules]."

Thanks,
Darrin

On Nov 4, 11:14 am, Jon Bauman <baum...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The thrower stays the thrower until someone else catches the disc or it's
> turned over.
>
> II.T.5:
> An offensive player in possession of, or who has most recently possessed,
> the disc, is the thrower.
>

> On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Benjamin Supnik <bsup...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > If I understand the definitions correctly, the thrower isn't the
> > thrower anymore once he, um, throws the disk.  So the poacher could be
> > within 3 meters of the former thrower after the release legally,
> > regardless of who else is around.  But if the poacher enters the 3
> > meter zone before the throw and it really is a poach, that's a double
> > team before the throw.
>
> > --
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> > "UPA 11th edition rules" group.
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> > upa_11th_edition_...@googlegroups.com<upa_11th_edition_rules%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > .

[Steve Rieck]

Very sensible I guess. So the next question regards the defender on defender pick rule.... if these defenders cramming themselves around this receiver manage to trip each other up as they chase him, is he then held responsible for a pick, negating a clean reception if he manages to burn them, or at least negating his ability to continue the flow of his game advancing next pass or move? And....does this seem fair and correct?

   It certainly seems to invite collusion and place the repercussions on the incorrect party..........Thanks to all who have an opinion on this and

chime in to let us know it...............Thanks......Leaker(original Condor...75 thru 80)..I mention this only to help explain my perspective, & in hopes of getting more dialog with more Plastic Tribe members

[Jon Bauman]

My previous post about the thrower staying the thrower was sort of tangential to the issue of double-team. It's relevant to continuation and such. I just wanted to be clear about what the definition of thrower was. The reason that it's not possible for it to be a double team after the release is that there's no longer a pivot to be within 3 meters of. See the definition of pivot (II.M):

Pivot: The particular part of the body in continuous contact with a single spot on the field during a thrower’s possession once the thrower has come to a stop or has attempted a throw or fake. When there is a definitive spot for putting the disc into play, the part of the body in contact with that spot is the pivot.

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[Jon Bauman]

I think we pretty well covered this in the original pick thread, and this isn't relevant to double teaming, so it doesn't really belong here.

[Benjamin Supnik]

Thanks for the clarification Jon - I see now that a lot of the
thrower-related rules (disk space, double team) are defined in terms
of the pivot.

[Darrin]

Yes, Thanks, Jon! I had never picked up on the fact that the
"thrower" stays the thrower, but the "pivot" ends once the disc is
released. That helps a lot.