new here :)

[nantuckettt]

hi all, im weighing the idea of unschooling my son. he is 15 so we are
starting late. a friend of mine who unschools said she doesnt think it
is too late to start unschooling him. he is special needs but he isnt
too disabled by it. he has williams syndrome. he is very smart, but
has trouble with some things. one of the main things i am concerned
about is teaching him money. it's confusing for him. i guess im just
wondering, will he learn on his own? i should try to integrate money/
math into things he is already doing on his own? im not sure.....

[Kelly Hogaboom]

Hello!

My kids are very good with money (they are 7 and 9) and even buy our groceries on a budget. The way they've learned is, we give them money and let them use it. I will say, a person is more likely to learn something when they are interested in the subject and excited about it (and my kids have so far been both). Is your son interested and excited, or intimidated and/or worried? Knowing his feelings and thoughts on the matter will be a real help.

Kelly

On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 7:58 AM, nantuckettt <nantu...@gmail.com> wrote:

one of the main things i am concerned
about is teaching him money. it's confusing for him. i guess im just
wondering, will he learn on his own? i should try to integrate money/
math into things he is already doing on his own? im not sure.....

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[Sandra Dodd]

I have a few things collected up that you might read. (And I'm sorry your post sat unannounced, somehow; I found it today.)

http://sandradodd.com/later/

-=- one of the main things i am concerned

about is teaching him money. it's confusing for him. i guess im just
wondering, will he learn on his own? i should try to integrate money/

math into things he is already doing on his own? im not sure.....-=-

I don't think you should "teach him money."

How is he with video game scores? How is he with "gold" within games?
Do you ever play poker with him or other games that involve money (or chips) but just for fun?

-=- i guess im just wondering, will he learn on his own? -=-

You can create an environment that makes it easier for him to learn on his own.

These might have something helpful in them, or links to something that might give you other ideas:

http://sandradodd.com/math/allowance
http://sandradodd.com/money

Sandra

[Robyn Coburn]

The worst case scenario may be that your son may never be "good" at managing money. He may never be able to grasp ideas like compound interest, credit balances, or balancing checkbooks, or planning his budgets, or understanding money when it is not cash in his hand. 

I have a friend who is not good with money in those very ways, by his own admission. He learned this very early in his life, and decided to hire an accountant to deal with his finances. His pay is directly deposited. His rent and bills are paid on time. A portion goes into his savings. He is given a cash allowance of an amount agreed upon, and if he wants to buy something bigger, he calls his accountant and they look over the budget. For him the cost of paying the accountant is worth it. I wish I was as organized and untroubled.

My 12yo daughter hates the idea of an allowance. She is part of all our budget discussions and I have offered, but she still just wants me to hand her a small sum of money at the store, and not have to think it over. She does tend to keep the change I notice. We pretty much allocate most of the money that would be allowance towards paying for her World of Warcraft. She is very good at totting up gold and levels and points on her games. I'm not afraid for her future.

I guess what I'm saying is that your son's present happiness and as much enjoyment as he can get from numbers and math concepts (like music) that interest him, are more important in the long run than worrying today about when or if he will know all about money. Let him be comfortable with what he does know about money. Get him a cool small calculator (I have one in my phone) and one of those printed "tip calculator" cards to keep in his wallet. Don't let it turn into a great big fail in his mind.

Nobody ever wished they had started unschooling later. Please pull him from school today if you are able.

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[Sandra Dodd]

-=-The worst case scenario may be that your son may never be "good" at managing money. He may never be able to grasp ideas like compound interest, credit balances, or balancing checkbooks, or planning his budgets, or understanding money when it is not cash in his hand. -=-

I'm a little that way, but I married someone who's good with money and knows about things like refinancing mortgages.

-=- His pay is directly deposited. His rent and bills are paid on time. A portion goes into his savings. He is given a cash allowance of an amount agreed upon, and if he wants to buy something bigger, he calls his accountant and they look over the budget. -=-

This is really wonderful.

My husband's mom used to do his taxes, because she liked to, and knew ways to save money.
He likes to do our kids' taxes, but Kirby likes to do his own. This is not (I don't think) normal human behavior, to LIKE to do taxes. :-)

Maybe, if he's fine with using the computer, you could get a debit card to share with him, and bookmark the page where the transactions and balance are shown for the debit card. He might have no interest, but if he gets that, he's pretty well set, I think. People hardly use checks or cash anymore anyway.

Sandra

[nantuckettt]

thanks so much everyone! i really appreciate the input. robyn, you
make it so tempting to keep him home tomorrow and begin deschooling
=) i appreciate the comments and links. that is a good idea sandra,
about the debit card. kevin LOVES the computer. he's funny though, he
isnt big on buying things! lol - which is great in my eyes! im all for
simplicity. he loves to eat though, and eat out, so he could use his
money to save for things like that. he loves to say "let's go out to
eat, my treat!" but he only has $1.68 lol.

meg

[Sandra Dodd]

-=- you make it so tempting to keep him home tomorrow and begin deschooling-=-

If he likes school, let him go.

If he doesn't like school, don't send him tomorrow.

There's no reason to "finish the year" if you're not going to finish the diploma.

There's no reason to finish the day. If you don't see this until after he's gone to school, you could go and get him. Take him to lunch. :-) Lots of places don't even require a signature if the food is less than $25 these days. :-)

Even if you're just going to think about unschooling, he could miss a day.

http://sandradodd.com/ifonly

You'll have regret enough. You don't have to add to that.
Sandra

[nantuckettt]

kev's been missing A LOT of school this year. we moved from MA to AZ
this year. last sept. he started school late. then he went to one
school (in Mesa) and everything went well. then we moved to another
town and he started at another school. a lot of changes for the poor
kid. he's started this thing where he DOES NOT want to go to school.
i've been having lots of discussions with him, letting him express
himself and tell me anything he needs to about school. mostly it seems
he doesnt want to get up in the morning. he was in tears one morning
(and hardly ever cries). i wouldnt think getting up early would make
him so upset. tho i dont like getting up at 6am with him either lol.
he's been making himself throw up too. seems like a BIG warning sign,
right? he has a big crush on a girl there. so going to see her kind of
motivates him. i know he doesnt like gym. but im not sure that is even
this issue. i think he's failing gym actually, for not bringing/
wearing his sneakers. im working on setting up an appt with his
teachers. but sometimes i wonder, why put him through this?

what did you mean " You'll have regret enough.  You don't have to add
to that."?

meg

[Sandra Dodd]

http://sandradodd.com/ifonly

I don't think you looked at that link before you asked this question:

[Robyn Coburn]

http://www.sleepinfairfax.org/research.htm 

That's a link to some of the research about teen sleep. Short answer - their sleep patterns tend to change. They tend to want more sleep than previously. They tend to change their biological clock and want to sleep in. 

Some schools are doing later starts to accommodate nature. But the best school in the world can't begin to hold a candle to unschooling and sleeping by your own internal clock.

Maybe talk to him about strategies for keeping up his friendships even while at home. Perhaps there are some extra curricular activities where he could spend even better time with them. 

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[nantuckettt]

oh! i'm sorry, i was going to look at it in a while, kev and i are
just hanging out here in my room =) - i'll check it out (as i will
all the others :)))

On Feb 13, 8:09 pm, Sandra Dodd <San...@Sandradodd.com> wrote:

[Joyce Fetteroll]

On Feb 13, 2012, at 10:24 PM, nantuckettt wrote:

> i've been having lots of discussions with him, letting him express
> himself and tell me anything he needs to about school. mostly it seems
> he doesnt want to get up in the morning. he was in tears one morning
> (and hardly ever cries). i wouldnt think getting up early would make
> him so upset. tho i dont like getting up at 6am with him either lol.

> he's been making himself throw up too. seems like a BIG warning sign,
> right?

Warning sign? I'd say it's a communication of desperation because his lesser ways of saying he doesn't want to go are being blown off.

If you ignore that protest, what next step up might he take to get you to listen to his request?

If you said you didn't want to do something to your husband or a friend and they made you anyway, if you cried, and still they made you, if you got so upset you threw up and *still* they made you, what would your reaction be? Your child is a human being too. Why would he be expected to accept such disrespectful treatment?

Why are you making him go to school? Why are you not taking him out of school and letting him stay home?

What is he or you getting from school that's so important that you're willing to treat him in ways that you'd never treat another person whose relationship you cared about? What are the pros and what are the cons?

Those are real questions.

> i've been having lots of discussions with him, letting him express
> himself and tell me anything he needs to about school.

It's not really a discussion if he knows his main objection has no chance of being heeded.

If you said you didn't want to eat the liver at a friend's house and her response was to offer condiments to mask the taste, water to wash it down, dessert as a reward, would it feel like she cared more about you or about her agenda for you?

Please do take him out. He's powerless in the world to control what's done to him. All the power he has comes through you and you're withholding it.

Joyce

[Robin Bentley]

I'd like to reiterate Sandra's recommendation:

-=-If he doesn't like school, don't send him tomorrow.-=-

I think all you've written in this last post suggests he doesn't want
to go, other than to see the girl. He could still see her, if you
arrange it :-)

I'm sure Sandra will explain but if it was me, I would say that once
you've been unschooling for a time, you'll look back at your son's
experience in school and wonder what the heck took you so long to
bring him home.

Robin B.

[nantuckettt]

whoa, that hit home joyce.....
i feel very sad for him.
GOOD NEWS though! i kept kevin home today and probably from now on. my
husband wants to think on it another day (we've been discussing it
and so far he's quite intrigued by the idea).
thank you so much joyce, i really understood what you were saying. it
means a lot. i didnt realize..... :\

[Sandra Dodd]

-=I think all you've written in this last post suggests he doesn't want to go, other than to see the girl. He could still see her, if you arrange it :-)-=-

Having a crush on a girl isn't about the girl's life.

There have been boys who had crushes on Holly over the years. I wouldn't have wanted their mothers to try to arrange for them to see her, if their circumstances changed so that they weren't with her for other purposes (school, clubs meetings, natural hanging out).

Sandra

[Meg Davidson]

because it's a boy/girl thing?

>>  I wouldn't have wanted their mothers to try to arrange for them to see her, if their circumstances changed so that they weren't with her for other purposes (school, clubs meetings, natural hanging out).<<

Sandra

[Sandra Dodd]

-=-because it's a boy/girl thing?-=-

Because it's not a mutual thing.

If someone has a stalker, that's not "a boy/girl thing."
Having a crush on someone isn't being a stalker, but if one has a crush and the "crushee" has no knowledge of that, or knows and isn't interested, then if the mom arranges for them to be in the same place, it kind of becomes stalking.

Sandra

[Robin Bentley]

>
> If someone has a stalker, that's not "a boy/girl thing."
> Having a crush on someone isn't being a stalker, but if one has a
> crush and the "crushee" has no knowledge of that, or knows and isn't
> interested, then if the mom arranges for them to be in the same
> place, it kind of becomes stalking.

Yes, and I only meant that if *both* kids wanted to see each other,
then the moms could arrange it, outside of school. Sorry I wasn't clear.

Robin B.