Children vs. parents

[Lee Roversi]

Sandra said in a recent posting:
>>School both methodically and inadvertently creates a rift between 
children and parents.  

I'd like to point out that dynamic is so prevalent, not only in school situations - take note of many of the television shows in which the children are pitted against the parents (us vs. them) and the younger siblings are always annoying. My children and I have had many discussions about this. . .it is how it is perceived and accepted to be.

So many cultural norms are consistently debunked by the kind of parenting we are advocating. I have a letter I am about to fire off to Toyota. Did anyone see the ad on the back cover of the latest National Geographic? It is a photo of a young man standing in the midst of his few possessions in front of a college dorm with the banner over the dorm entrance saying "Welcome Freshmen." There is a Toyota Highlander parked there also. The ad reads: "5:15PM. Dropping the kid off at college. 5:17PM. What kid?. . .Highlander For Your Newfound Freedom." I found the ad repugnant for its inferences of people being so relieved to have a child out of their hair so that they could cruise in their groovy SUV while quickly 'forgetting' that child exists. But, my guess is that most people would not even relate to my distaste of that, and even could relate far better to the ad itself. Sad.

Aloha, Lee

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[Mandy]

Lee Roversi wrote:
> Sandra said in a recent posting:
> >>School both methodically and inadvertently creates a rift between
> children and parents.
>
> I'd like to point out that dynamic is so prevalent, not only in school
> situations - take note of many of the television shows in which the children
> are pitted against the parents (us vs. them) and the younger siblings are
> always annoying.

A cingular wireless phone commercial I saw recently that really
disturbed me.

http://adage.com/video/Player.php?instanceId=49&spotId=532

Why is it even necessary for them to create a commercial like this (Mom
and daughter yelling at each other)? I don't understand in anyway how
this would make me want to buy one of their phones???? And Adrants is
claiming cell phone commercials are getting better? (referencing
another commercial where the girl is a speedtalking cheerleader) I've
always like the old Hallmark family commercials that make you cry,
myself.

http://www.adrants.com/2006/08/mother-and-daughter-do-not-fight-about-ci.php

Mandy

[Laura Riesenberg]

Lee,

 

I didn't see that ad, but the one that always gets to me (and I haven't seen it yet this back to school season, but we have been extraordinarily busy as of late with my oldest being in the hospital) is the one for one of those office supply stores (Staples or Office Max  I think) where the dad is dancing down the aisle, throwing school supplies into his cart, looking tauntingly at his children, and the tune "its the most wonderful time of the year" is playing...that commerical just irks me beyond belief.

 

Maybe I shouldn't be so miffed about the dumb commerical...after all my kids are REJOICING that the rest of the kids return to school in less than 2 weeks, it means we get the museums, parks, swimming pools all to ourselves once again!

 

Laura
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[Su Penn]

On Aug 12, 2006, at 3:50 PM, Laura Riesenberg wrote:

> Maybe I shouldn't be so miffed about the dumb commerical...after
> all my kids
> are REJOICING that the rest of the kids return to school in less
> than 2
> weeks, it means we get the museums, parks, swimming pools all to
> ourselves
> once again!

The last few years, we've had these beautiful autumns, so we've had
about two months after the school kids start back to school of
absolutely perfect weather for being outdoors--sunny and not too hot.
We spend day after day after day in the parks, at the zoo, at the
nature center, with no crowds to fight. Autumn in Michigan: Reason #
10,427 why we homeschool.

Su

[Sandra Dodd]

-=-Why is it even necessary for them to create a commercial like this
(Mom
and daughter yelling at each other)?-=-

The sad thing is that it justifies the feelings of any parent who's
dismissing her own part in such negativity with the idea that it's
natural and inevitable to be at odds with teens.

OH GOSH!!!!

It's the ultimate case of "everybody's doing it."

I've never thought of it this way, but the whole WHOLE HUGE parenting
bunch of bunk is nothing more than "everyone's doing it."

I grounded my kid; do you feel bad?; everyone does it.
I threw my kid out when he turned 18; are you sorry? everyone's doing
it.

Sandra

[GailB...@aol.com]

In a message dated 8/12/2006 3:40:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ncf...@aloha.net writes:

I'd like to point out that dynamic is so prevalent, not only in school situations - take note of many of the television shows in which the children are pitted against the parents (us vs. them) and the younger siblings are always annoying. My children and I have had many discussions about this. . .it is how it is perceived and accepted to be.

Taco Bell has these "Good to Go" ads that I don't like.  The parents hand their child the taco as you see his suitcases packed by the door.  Another ad is about carpet that is much better.  The child leaves and they try out all these different room designs and the last one is back to their child's room with the mom saying.."Just in case"  At least that kid has the option to come home. 

 

I'm so sensitive to this because when I left home the first time, my parents moved and there was never a place for me to come back to when I really did need it.  Not happening here.  We're in the process of remodeling our garage for Brenna.  Not only can my kids live here as long as they want, they will always have a place to come home to.

 

Gail

[GailB...@aol.com]

In a message dated 8/12/2006 5:09:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, San...@sandradodd.com writes:

I've never thought of it this way, but the whole WHOLE HUGE parenting 
bunch of bunk is nothing more than "everyone's doing it."

That is just what Brenna said when all the moms were talking about how glad they were their kids were back in school!  

 

 " Everybody says that, mom.  If they acted like they missed their kids everyone would think they were weird."

 

Gail

 

[elizabeth roberts]

I thought the cheerleader one was cute (yes, I'm a former cheerleader) and the other one I thought was pretty neat the way they were able to "yell" at each other these words that weren't angry or uncaring, but said as if they were. It made me think of how important tone and body language is, as much as what is actually being said. It totally changes the meaning.

 

Beth

Mandy <mandy....@cox.net> wrote:

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[Su Penn]

On Aug 12, 2006, at 5:03 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:

> I've never thought of it this way, but the whole WHOLE HUGE parenting
> bunch of bunk is nothing more than "everyone's doing it."
>
> I grounded my kid; do you feel bad?; everyone does it.
> I threw my kid out when he turned 18; are you sorry? everyone's doing
> it.

When I've been struggling to be patient with Eric, 5, and try to talk
to other moms about times when I've lost my temper or yelled, this is
the Number 1 response I get: "It's OK, that happens to everybody." I
always say, "Just because it happens to almost everybody doesn't make
it OK." That's why I like bringing those kinds of problems to
unschoolers when I'm having them: I do hear back, "First, you need to
forgive yourself and stop beating yourself up about it." And then I
get a whole range of ideas about how to shift my thinking, adjust my
actions, change my view of Eric, re-arrange my house and my time, so
that it doesn't happen again. Nobody just says, "It's OK."

Su

[diana jenner]

Mandy wrote:

A cingular wireless phone commercial I saw recently that really disturbed me.

http://adage.com/video/Player.php?instanceId=49&spotId=532

Why is it even necessary for them to create a commercial like this (Mom
and daughter yelling at each other)?
  

I actually LOVE this commercial!  It reminds me of our family, when I catch myself in the middle of an inexplicable, unnecessary tirade, I'll switch to kind and loving words in that same grumpy, grumbly voice and the kids just crack up!!  When they were younger, we would have "singing days" and "grumpy days" when we strove to sing everything we said or grumble everything -- it was very fun!  It's good practice, too, to pay attention to the *words* and not the *delivery* (which is an amazing tool to have when kids are whiney and I must refocus on the message!). 

~diana :)

[Sandra Dodd]

-=-It's good practice, too, to pay attention to the *words* and not the *delivery* (which is an amazing tool to have when kids are whiney and I must refocus on the message!).  -=-

I guess it's good practice for the sake of practice, and it's good to see what kids want when they're losing it, but in the larger picture, delivery DOES matter.  If someone says "I'm sorry" but all body language, tone of voice and facial expression says "I hope a big truck hits you and I'm there to see it," the words were not only meaningless, the words were BigDamnedLie.

If someone is playing around and growls "I love you" that might be fun.  Might be.

If someone clenches fists and leans forward stiffly and yells "I love you" with a red face, that means more likely they are manipulators with not the slightest whiff of what real love feels like, and so what they say about that or anything else is devalued.

Words are only a small part of in-person communications.  

Some people read the other stuff better than others.   Some are very sensitive to the other stuff, so any intimidating or agressive posture might affect them in a physical kind of visceral way.  The might be afraid, or also angry, or want to avoid that other person forever.

It's either powerful stuff or powerless stuff depending on the observer.  

Sandra

[Robyn Coburn]

<<<< Why is it even necessary for them to create a commercial like this (Mom

and daughter yelling at each other)? >>>>

I guess the point of the commercial is that many parents actually do yell at their children for expressing desire, such as for a cell phone, and then for using the same cell phone “too much”, and it is riffing on a process that is supposed to be commonplace in conventionally parented families – that parents and children are adversaries, that the children feel they have to make a big fuss in order to be given something that simple, that parents feel they have to be very strict about something that could be an ongoing expense because they feel their teens are inherently not trustworthy – or it “has to” be treated as a teaching opportunity for teaching responsibility. There is also a lot of envy lurking there too, for all the cool gadgetry kids have access to now in comparison to the old days. There is that other series of commercials that are punning on text messaging as covert drug abuse needing intervention. They are replaying an angry, punitive, distrustful dynamic that is probably assumed to be “normal”. 

The irony here is that even if this kind of relationship dynamic is normal, it need not be played out around cell phones since you can simply get prepaid cards for them anyway without a big account and creating a budget for the card would be a heck of a lot simpler than ever needing to fight about it. Do people really fight with their kids (engage in a dumb power struggle) over something with *so many* solutions???? Maybe they do. I guess it’s not really about cell phones. I think the angry response is a strategy, one that seems to fail dismally, for getting a kid to stop asking for anything.

Of course for us, the whole situation is nonsense. Oh Jayn wants a cell phone – how can we get her one? Or: Jayn wants “mind bogglingly expensive something” – Oh gee we can’t afford that right now, let’s put it in the wish book – how can we work on getting her one eventually? 

If Jayn is really wanting something and sad or angry because it is presently impossible, we tend to be sympathetic and compassionate and kind about it. I don’t have to act out angrily, just because her desire for stuff sometimes makes me feel inadequate if I can’t give it at once. I don’t have to escalate the emotional atmosphere just because Jayn frustrated because she doesn’t want to hear “no” in any form. I can join in feeling genuinely sorry that it is out of our practical ability just now – but maybe not forever.

Robyn L. Coburn

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[juillet]

>
> " ... If they acted like they missed their kids

> everyone would think they were weird."

As a parent who's kid went to school last year, I was flabbergasted by
how many parents exclaim how glad and even relieved they are that
school's starting. I heard the same weird comments whenever the end of
a vacation or long weekend happened, too. Even the teachers would see
me at work (a grocery store) and say, "Are you glad Kevin's back in
school?" I'd say, "No we were just getting into a nice groove when
school started up again." I'm not really sure why people think that
parents and kids don't enjoy eachother. Are they not paying attention
to the wonderfulness right in front of them?
~~Julie

[Kimberly Goza]

Interesting that this discussion came up. Just the other day, we were
discussing one of the productions we will be producing with
teen/parent scenes. And I thought,"Hey. Why not play it against the
stereotype? Why not model a fun, loving relationship?" We are going to
try it and hope it gives our audiences some new perspectives.

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Kimberly Goza
http://www.activated-storytellers.com
The ever-nomadic Act!vated Storytellers are currently performing in
Sacramento, CA

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[Robyn Coburn]

Sorry if everyone got the bizarre one line formatting of my last message on this thread.

 

It seems less troublesome in a full page display of the message.

 

I don’t know what happened or why. The draft was normal on my screen.

 

Robyn L. Coburn

[elizabeth roberts]

Saw a vanity plate on the way home from church today that read "Kid Free" - had three different college stickers on the back window. Sad that they feel they need to announce it to the world like that.

 

Beth

Sing, Dance, Laugh...LOVE!

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