One Year Anniversary
Sahara Anderson
I've been lurking here for quite some time and only chimed in on the more benign discussions. We are almost to a full year mark for unschooling in our family and its only now that I am starting to have questions, concerns, etc. For background information my son is 6 (I'm in total denial that he'll be 7 in a few weeks ) he attended two preschools, both miserable experiences. And attended kdg. in a small parochial school last school year. It wasn't miserable, but it wasn't what we hoped either. I was very interested in homeschooling in general from the time he was a newborn and unschooling specifically as I started reading more later. But true to my early parenting ways, I always went against my gut feelings and signed him up for the various schools from family and societal pressure. I've only recently figured out how much I cared what other people thought of me. I'm glad I don't care anymore!
We've found wonderful people IRL to hook up with who unschool, some radical unschoolers, some less radical. That's been really helpful to see real life examples of this philosophy in action. I see these bright uninhibited children who just happily live... and voilà they learn! So why don't I feel quite right with this world yet?
I hope this isn't too long (it really kind of is, I know) but if anyone has any thoughts on the following issues I'd so appreciate it!
1. Since my son was schooled early on, he did learn how to read and to write some. So I'll never know for him how he would have learned it naturally. Now that he isn't pressured to perform these things he seems to hate them, but did them on his own when in school. He wants to do things like make birthday cards and caption his drawings, but now he can barely write and gets really angry and frustrated at himself when trying to. He hits his head, and growls and gives up his project. He is not interested in the "creative spelling" approach. He seems stuck on the one right way to do things mentality. In fact his friend gave him a card with very creative spelling recently and my son's comment to me was, "I can't believe he gave these to people." Will the negative experience with writing harm his natural progress?
2. I read here someone saying you shouldn't just say your child is a "glass half empty kind of person" and leave it at that. But the truth is, my son really is one. He is very negative, grouchy, complains a lot, and is rarely satisfied. I don't make him feel badly for it, but I have come to the conclusion that he was born a more negative pessimistic type personality. This personality seems to get in the way of curiosity and family peace which seem to be very important ingredients in unschooling. I even looked for some kind of DX for years, thinking something had to be wrong. But there isn't a diagnosis for crabby-appleton is there?
3. He's an only. I know almost no one IRL who has an only. The one unschooler we know who is an only, has a baby sibling on the way. I was an only too, but seemed to go at it a little differently than him. I reveled in my onlieness. Heck I even played scrabble by myself sometimes. But my son's take on it is different. He seems lonely. He does a few classes, Unschool park day, and has tons of friends he visits with often. But when its just the two of us at home, or out in the world he cries for his dad, or tells me he's bored, or complains about everything. Even in the middle of Sea World, or the mall, or out to eat. He seems so dissatisfied to pal around with me. Any only unschoolers out there? Its a hard row to hoe I'm figuring out. Even if my husband and I planned another, they'd be at least 8 years apart.
4. I have a friend who has homeschooled her son from day one. She even works for a local charter school that is a homeschool program. Unschooling though is a little newer to her. She was more "ecclectic" before so the little guy never had much forcing or prodding with academics. But now she's jumped into unschooling with him head first after I introduced her to my IRL unschooling people. And.. well I'm a little jealous. I know... not a useful feeling. But she reports to me all the cool stuff he's just doing on his own with no pressure. Homemade comic books, and unprompted internet searches. We're lucky if we had a day when my son hasn't thrown his project to the floor in tears. I can't help but feel a little jealous. Now, I feel like an unschooling edition of cliff notes for her while I'm not feeling it with my own family yet.
So those have been my dark thoughts lately on our unschooling adventure and was hoping to exchange them for some lighter ones. Anyone willing to help me a little? Thanks so much in advance for the help. I'm so glad for this discussion group.
-Sahara
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Sandra Dodd
Sahara Anderson
His personality was pretty set from day one. After having him in my life, I've come to believe that the grouchy guy at the post office and the other Eeyore types in the world were born that way. He just is a more pessimistic negative type. I'm not making a value judgment that this is a bad personality, or he is bad for having it. In fact, it can be kind of funny and endearing at times. Like last night when we made crepes together and they were so good.... bananas foster, set the rum on fire, the whole bit. He was mildly impressed with all that and seemed more interested in the fact that I ate quite a few of them. He said, "you must have been hungry!" I had to laugh, even though it sounded pretty sarcastic and the average grandparent would have said it was "snotty". His humor is more of a negative style like that.
I am finding though that his personality does make it hard to be an unschooling family and would love some help making it work. Our family wants this lifestyle and I am opening up here in hopes of working with my son's personality differences to help enhance the unschool experience. It is harder to strew his path with interesting things because his personality is a little less open, or curious. He's more skeptical about new things.
I can get lost in your site for hours... its so full of great ideas. I appreciate all the time you put into it for the community to learn through your examples.
Sandra Dodd
I realized I could probably ask him if he'd like me to help dictation
style or??? I guess I was just used to him writing more
independently than that. -=-
Is he writing by hand or on the computer?
-=-Some preschool + one school year of kdg.-=-
That's a lot of school for a six year old.
-=-They weren't flippant decisions, or whims, they were thoughtfully
chosen schools. However, he didn't thrive in them. He came home
sad, withdrawn, sweaty and tired and we missed him. Our family is
pretty settled and drama free and we don't operate based on rash
decisions.-=-
I never suggested they weren't thoughtfully chosen. The more
thought and hope you put into it, the bigger the disappointment. No
matter how much you might have thought he wasn't paying attention to
the investment (financial, emotional, social) you might have had in
the school he was going to, he would've known.
-=-After having him in my life, I've come to believe that the grouchy
guy at the post office and the other Eeyore types in the world were
born that way. He just is a more pessimistic negative type. I'm not
making a value judgment that this is a bad personality, or he is bad
for having it. -=-
Well you should make a value judgment. It's not good to be grouchy
and pessimistic and negative. It makes it harder to have friends, to
get or keep jobs, to be married or stay married.
-=- He said, "you must have been hungry!" I had to laugh, even
though it sounded pretty sarcastic and the average grandparent would
have said it was "snotty". His humor is more of a negative style
like that.-=-
And really, it's not funny. It's the same as snotty and sarcastic
(words from your post) and mean and cruel. If you laugh at it
instead of trying to help him see the harm in it, you will be helping
him.
It's easy to say he was that way from day one. It's a way to keep
you from seeing a possible genetic component (how did his negative
relatives deal with it, if you think it's inborn?) and from looking
at ways you and his dad might have been or are still contributing to
or encouraging or justifying negativity.
-=- I am finding though that his personality does make it hard to be
an unschooling family and would love some help making it work. Our
family wants this lifestyle and I am opening up here in hopes of
working with my son's personality differences to help enhance the
unschool experience. It is harder to strew his path with interesting
things because his personality is a little less open, or curious.
He's more skeptical about new things.-=-
He's six, nearly seven. He's been in school most of the time he can
remember well. Now you've changed tracks again. He's probably
waiting for you to settle on what you believe and where your
confidence lies.
I have more, but will make another post.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
an unschooling family and would love some help making it work. Our
family wants this lifestyle and I am opening up here in hopes of
working with my son's personality differences to help enhance the
I don't think you should call it a "personality difference," as
though he has a disability.
Help him be more positive. Don't resign yourself to his negativity.
Find ways to bring him into the light and joy and optimism that
unschooling needs.
-=- It is harder to strew his path with interesting
things because his personality is a little less open, or curious.
He's more skeptical about new things.-=-
More skeptical than you are? More skeptical than you think other
kids are? More skeptical than the kids you read about here?
If he's not interested in anything at home and if strewing isn't
going to work, how about sending him back to school?
If that's not a good idea, how about *not* assuming he was born
negative and should be nurtured into staying that way? That's not
nurture.
-=-Well, I gave the examples of when he complains and gets moody to
show that even at commonly "happy" places he still has that
personality.-=-
When one of my kids is in a negative mood, I have sometimes plainly
said (quietly and kindly, in private) "The rest of us would have more
fun if you would at least pretend to be happy." or "If you whine,
it makes us all unhappy." It didn't take much more than that. They
wanted to be happier too. They aren't happier when they're wallowing.
I complimented Holly and thanked her for being so great on our road
trip to Texas. She said she had tried to be really nice. I told her
I appreciated it, and it didn't look like she was having to try very
hard. She said sometimes it was hard, but she wanted to be a
pleasant as she could be (I don't remember the phrase she used on
that part). She's 16. (Sixteen and a half, today.) She has a
boyfriend she was missing. She was great. It didn't hurt a bit,
though, that Keith and I were both trying to accommodate her all
kinds of ways, too.
-=-Here's our usual week: Every other Monday unschool park day or
home, Tuesday hour of sports with homeschooling group some errands/
shopping and piano-=-
Are you taking piano lessons?
Does he like the sports day? Do the parents participate?
-=- Friday home with dad only time (they call it boy time and fish
and do things they've deemed manly)-=-
Is his mood better when he's with his dad?
-=-Friday evening at his friends house, Sat and Sun home all day. He
plays for hours with the neighborhood kids probably 3 times a week.
Does that sound like too much? -=-
It doesn't sound like too much if they're all things he wants to do.
It sounds like too much if they're things he doesn't want to do.
-=-I don't know if he's heard of WA yet... I'll have to find
something from him. He'd find that pretty funny. I saw him live once.-=-
I've seen him twice. He's great in concert. His whole band is
fantastic, and he's very athletic/contortionistic. <g>
There are Weird Al videos on YouTube. Here's one that's all
palindromes, and is done in the style of Bob Dylan.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Nej4xJe4Tdg
I don't know what kind of music your son knows or likes, but here's a
parody of "American Idiot":
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Rt1_6uz_sVU
The video is by kids, but the audio is Weird Al and the lyrics are
there. Those kids did a pretty good job, too.
Here's another one, with footage from Bob and Doug McKenzie shows and
some other movies (and a Weird Al video)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=C_TfBbR6L0M&feature=related
It's not just about finding something pretty funny. There are
connections galore there. Connections to the original song (and
other songs by that artist), to the subject matter (the Amish, the
duck-and-cover drills of the 1960's, Star Wars), to the art of parody
itself, to philosophy (the songs he wrote himself are some of the
best: "Everything You Know is Wrong" is my favorite, and "One More
Minute" with the video, especially, is really good and a tie-in with
all 50's and early 60's doo-wop.
How could you not know if your kid knows any Weird Al? Get some from
iTunes or somewhere and put a CD in your car tomorrow!
-=-One thing he got from me was the preference for the live action
movies over animated ones. -=-
Did he get it from you genetically, y'think, or have you told him you
don't like animation? Have you discouraged him from liking
animation? How's your own cheer level?
Sandra
amyLS
kid whose intelligence is really high, but he frowns a lot. The
cranky, serious type. And it sounds like you would like him to feel
less 'frowny'.
This idea is spontaneous - I thought of it just before I started
this message. How about going into his room, right as he wakes up...
lying beside him. So you are both staring at the same view.
Establish a 'companion' feeling between you, and then say... as you
lie there next to him: " I have no idea what to do today. We could do
anything, I know, but I just don't have any ideas at the moment."
And then let that sit.
Maybe he will just be irritated that you are there, maybe not.
In any case, just continue that stance of not having a plan, and be
prepared for him to not have one either. But just maybe, he will be
that kind of 'frowny' person who likes to solve problems, and he will
begin to lead the day for the two of you.
I say: don't 'fix' his personality type. I think you should
celebrate it and explore his unique strengths, and stop feeling bad.
Your biggest job as a mom is to accept him for who he is. Don't try
to correct 'flaws' that are really just part of his personality.
Start loving these words: quirk, unique, unexpected and OK
He sounds awesome. Don't try to fix! Just relax, enjoy and
learn.
Penta
my kids aged 5 thru 13 who are all familiar with Green Day AND Weird
Al, they are going to love it! We have been watching a few of those
Weird Al videos over the last couple of weeks and you are absolutely
right about the content! But funny how now as slightly more seasoned
unschoolers I don't categorically separate the material we encounter
as educational or not anymore. It has just become life and there is a
deeper trust now that we are learning from everything. We watched that
Amish video last week and the thought never crossed my mind "Oh it's
learning material". It was part of what we did that day.
Shonna
> I don't know what kind of music your son knows or likes, but here's a
> parody of "American Idiot":http://youtube.com/watch?v=Rt1_6uz_sVU
> The video is by kids, but the audio is Weird Al and the lyrics are
> there. Those kids did a pretty good job, too.
>
> Here's another one, with footage from Bob and Doug McKenzie shows and
k
great privilege to be on the inside and see how ds is *not* handling
things well and be there to encourage him and be a problem solver
(when he wants it --- which is not always the case). Over time, this
doesn't make him do better so much as it gives him the knowledge that
I am pulling for him and I'm not worried how it will appear to others.
I have gotten much more comfortable with the idea of ds having as
much time as he needs to go through whatever it is he needs to go
through. And this is probably one of the most difficult things about
unschooling that there is --yet it is what I would think of as a key
ingredient. Without the knowledge that your parent(s) are 100% behind
you, it's hard to be an unschooler. So that whether we're in public
or at home by ourselves, we go through our day together. This doesn't
mean that children do well just because they have support. It does
mean I get to see ds and myself develop through different experiences.
It means I realize more and more that I am ds' safety valve (and
therefore others don't need to understand what ds is struggling about,
coming on the situation cold turkey as it were. Over time, you will
develop the ability of supporting your child without feeling that
you're failing (you're deschooling too, remember). But it does take
doing it and giving yourselves time.
On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 6:56 PM, Sahara Anderson
<saharaa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> 2. I read here someone saying you shouldn't just say your child is a "glass
> half empty kind of person" and leave it at that. But the truth is, my son
> really is one. He is very negative, grouchy, complains a lot, and is rarely
> satisfied. I don't make him feel badly for it, but I have come to the
> conclusion that he was born a more negative pessimistic type personality.
> This personality seems to get in the way of curiosity and family peace which
> seem to be very important ingredients in unschooling. I even looked for
> some kind of DX for years, thinking something had to be wrong. But there
> isn't a diagnosis for crabby-appleton is there?
It's a lot easier to get through these stages if you don't think of it
as a need for diagnosis, doctoring or other expert opinion.
>
> 3. He's an only. I know almost no one IRL who has an only. The one
> unschooler we know who is an only, has a baby sibling on the way. I was an
> only too, but seemed to go at it a little differently than him. I reveled
> in my onlieness. Heck I even played scrabble by myself sometimes. But my
> son's take on it is different. He seems lonely. He does a few classes,
> Unschool park day, and has tons of friends he visits with often. But when
> its just the two of us at home, or out in the world he cries for his dad, or
> tells me he's bored, or complains about everything. Even in the middle of
> Sea World, or the mall, or out to eat. He seems so dissatisfied to pal
> around with me. Any only unschoolers out there? Its a hard row to hoe I'm
> figuring out. Even if my husband and I planned another, they'd be at least 8
> years apart.
My only does the same thing. Children have intense needs for a social
life that's comfortable for them and done on their terms. None of
what you're describing is unusual. It may not have been your
experience as a child but that doesn't mean it's bad when your child
is bored, longing for dad or other company, unhappy just with his mom.
Ds does the same things. I understand because my childhood
experience was lots of time out in the boonies when I wasn't at
school. I was bored and disconsolate much of the time. Because let's
face it, it was boring to me anyway.
> 4. I have a friend who has homeschooled her son from day one. She even
> works for a local charter school that is a homeschool program. Unschooling
> though is a little newer to her. She was more "ecclectic" before so the
> little guy never had much forcing or prodding with academics. But now she's
> jumped into unschooling with him head first after I introduced her to my IRL
> unschooling people. And.. well I'm a little jealous. I know... not a
> useful feeling. But she reports to me all the cool stuff he's just doing on
> his own with no pressure. Homemade comic books, and unprompted internet
> searches. We're lucky if we had a day when my son hasn't thrown his project
> to the floor in tears. I can't help but feel a little jealous. Now, I feel
> like an unschooling edition of cliff notes for her while I'm not feeling it
> with my own family yet.
See. Now the above is classic expression of a need to deschool
yourself. Comparisons, grades, homogenization are what school is all
about. Give it time and lots of love. Find solutions for the
problems you're noticing. Meet up with your son's friends more often
or arrange for him to. Be happy with your own process and forget
about matching up with the experience(s) of others.
~K~
Jenny
finish it, why don't you do it for him? If it is writing in specific,
maybe he could type it out and print it, cut it, and paste it, or
maybe you could be a set of rubber stamps of the alphabet. If it is
spelling, spell it for him, don't make him guess or do it for himself
to "fail", which is how he clearly sees it.
>
> His personality was pretty set from day one. After having him in my life, I've come to believe that the grouchy guy at the post office and the other Eeyore types in the world were born that way. He just is a more pessimistic negative type.
that I can change the whole mood in my household simply by smiling and
"be"ing happy. It creates a happy energy that infects others around
me. I remember when both my girls were babies, I would cradle them in
my arms and consciously smile and create peace in my heart while I was
holding them. Sometimes, I was tired or anxious for them to fall
asleep and it would make me feel less happy about that moment, so to
shift it was a positive thing to do. I have happy memories of rocking
my babies, while they seem to have a happy peace about them, and I
think that is why my mood shifts will change theirs, even still now
that one is 14 and one is 6.
> I am finding though that his personality does make it hard to be an unschooling family and would love some help making it work. Our family wants this lifestyle and I am opening up here in hopes of working with my son's personality differences to help enhance the unschool experience. It is harder to strew his path with interesting things because his
> personality is a little less open, or curious. He's more skeptical
> about new things.
set the tone and be aware of his tone and have unschooling work or not
based on that. I can absolutely say, that it won't work that way! It
has to come from you! You set the tone, you be the inspiration, you
bring all the stuff to the table, you make life fun!
> In the early years, yes actually. It would have felt a little better because I was frustrated and thought babies and toddlers and young children were just happy if treated well and had happy homes. (this was all before school) Now I do get him a little better and there isn't a need for any kind of medical diagnosis if there was one.
>
It seemed that her concentration of making sense of the world created
a frown. She didn't or wouldn't talk to anyone, even when they talked
directly to her. She rarely giggled. I could have interpreted that
as a negative nelly attitude, but I didn't. I saw her as peaceful and
attentively aware of every aspect of her surroundings. In many ways
she was experiencing stimulus that was over and beyond her
comprehension, she was absorbing them in ways that most kids don't. I
happily talked for her and acted on her behalf when she couldn't. ( I
still do that for her sometimes at 14 and she mostly appreciates it,
minus the couple of times recently where I should've kept my mouth
shut, it's a hard habit to break after all these years )
Maybe you are misinterpreting his attitudes? It's just an idea. I
know a lot of times when I don't understand something that my children
are going through, looking at it from another angle helps me see it
differently and understand it better. It takes the focus off of them
doing something wrong or seemingly wrong, and puts the focus on ME
understanding better and seeing it differently.
Sandra Dodd
> I am finding though that his personality does make it hard to be
> an unschooling family and would love some help making it work. Our
> family wants this lifestyle and I am opening up here in hopes of
> working with my son's personality differences to help enhance the
> unschool experience. It is harder to strew his path with
> interesting things because his
> personality is a little less open, or curious. He's more skeptical
> about new things.
>
Jenny:
-=-It sounds like, but I could be wrong, that you are expecting him to
set the tone and be aware of his tone and have unschooling work or not
based on that. I can absolutely say, that it won't work that way! It
has to come from you! You set the tone, you be the inspiration, you
bring all the stuff to the table, you make life fun!-=-
That's the best answer to anything I've seen for a week.
Sandra