Distorted (2018)

[Giuliana]

Ihave a problem where audio will become distorted and sounds bit crushed, changing the sample rate of the system, RME driver in USB settings or in the Core audio of Ableton. The problem occurs when playing system sounds, such as Spotify, or inside Ableton.

no I didn't, I tried different USB port, I made sure everything in OS was set to correct sample rate, system sounds on the same card as the DAW, then on a different cause I though it might be that mismatch.. It does it on Spotify and in the DAW, but there's no pattern to when it happens...

I'm very disappointed with the silence in support on this forum, I've been on RME from FF800, to UFC to UFX to Babyface to Babyface pro on all manner of setups for live and studios to now digiface and only since the new computer I've had problems, which I bought to solve the old problems!...common RME, or Apple, or something!.. it's not really acceptable in a recording studio!...

Ok, thanks for the reply and explaining. I did go through the other thread, but I don't have location services turned on at all, system time is not synced, no wifi, no a battery and I was also on the latest OSX and drivers.

Ok so what is the problem exactly? I have limited my machine to literally running nothing, no internet, no services, no notifications, no iCloud, no dropbox, just the DAW, playing system sounds and the problem remains. Surely if you were able to make a driver update to control it you know the source, what can we all do to push apple? What are you doing to push apple? How is it apples fault? How can the entire professional market work with this kind of problem?

On our Mac Mini 2018 the problem is definitely the timed function, around every 30 minutes. We noticed that our former workaround is not always triggered here (it is triggered in Apple's own Class Compliant driver), and will extend the driver to also handle this error reliably. Which means that instead of lasting bitcrushing you get a short glitch (same as in Apple's Class Compliant driver). This glitch will not go away until Apple fixes it.

Have you had any fruitful communication with Apple about this? Perhaps I'm imagining it but it does seem like OS updates are helping though not eliminating the issue. I was just wondering if you'd had any more substantial conversation.

We've been editing and mixing numerous projects on tight deadlines for the last two weeks and the ADI-2 Pro glitches are so frustrating we may switch back to our UCX. But are you saying the problem will affect devices on the 3.11 driver as badly as class compliant mode?

As you say the new driver has a momentary glitch, but it is happening much much more regularly than the old bit crushing sound, which happened only twice yesterday with driver 3.10. I can't decide which is the lesser of two evils here, or which sound I hate more.. good vibes have gone in the studio

Bingo, you are right. The current scheme will cause a reset no matter what error shows up (basically you can not differ between them all). The former driver did not react with reset on an error that causes the effective buffer size to get smaller. With this kind of error there is no audible click when the error happens, but at some point the buffer size gets so small that you end up in continued distortion. If the sample shift is small then you can continue working without noticing the error. If you do recording without software monitoring the biggest buffer size available will prevent you from running into problems caused from this specific error for a long time.

According to our research (still ongoing) Thunderbolt and everything behind it (PCI, PCIe adapter enclosures, or docking stations/dongles with USB derived from the TB part of USB-C) do not show these problems.

3.11. Will have dropouts, but will these problems affect recording and will audio quality change over time, is something happening to the sample rate? Or is the driver re-setting itself? - Can this problem be ignored and continue to work without something happening deeper in the audio?

So dongles on USB-C ports (Thunderbolt) will not have these problems? I hated the fact of buying a million dongles that's why I went with the Mac mini and usb A ports, so that's the solution right now?

At least only using simple USB-C dongles does not help with Macbook Pro. USB-C is just the connector type for what's Thunderbolt 3 in new macs, meaning that it can transport data in different protocols, usb 3.1 (backward compatible to usb 2), but also PCI express, Displayport 1.2, network and power. To my understanding if you use USB-C to USB 2 adapter you just will use USB controller in your mac, and core of the problems is system tasks stressing it so that it can't handle audio properly. Anyway i guess docks that connect to mac via USB-C have their own USB controller in PCI bus (via thunderbolt), and according to MC these don't have the same issues as mac's internal usb controller. I may not be perfectly precise here technically...

If you use an USB-C to USB-A adapter and connect a USB 2 device it is internally connected to the same bus/hub where all the other USB 2 sockets are connected to - and thus won't work. You can gain basic knowledge about the internal structure and connections by using the Mac's System Report/System Information, USB. Connect your USB device and look where it is shown in the nested structure.

This device uses the PCIe bus of Thunderbolt and derives USB with its own USB chip, so is totally decoupled from the broken USB 2 in the Mac Mini 2018. Which is why it also doesn't show the infamous USB disconnect problem (USB hangs until reboot).

A word of advice: there are a zilllion cheap docks with USB, HDMI etc available, that often have 'Thunderbolt 3' in their name or description. These are NOT Thunderbolt 3 devices! To recognize real TB3 is quite easy:

This last one from QacQoc is presented as real TB3 solution, but on the second look it's a scam. The flash symbol stands for power (it's not the Intel flash). The first USB-C to USB-C connection is most probably a wired pass-through, violating the TB3 specification (but it's not TB certified anyway). The other ports are connected to the second USB-C and are therefore not derived from TB3.

As stated in the other thread driver 3.13 is now available, also on our website. It includes slightly increased Safety Offset buffers to ensure reliable operation with some TB3 docks at lower buffer settings.

I just connected my UFX II today, in the exact same setup as the UC it replaced. Playback works fine, but recording doesn't (recorded audio gets bitcrush distortion). Any idea why this might affect recording only? I have updated to the latest drivers.

It would help if you amend the official statement to include 2018 MacBook Pros, and I think it's still important we hound Apple with Console logs etc so they identify and fix the shortcomings sooner than later.

that's what I'm asking, are Audio errors present all the time, in the audio itself? It's less annoying, but maybe not the best solution if there are more errors that aren't so obvious vs the 3.10 driver where at least you know it's gone wrong, do you see my question?

I am using a MacMini 2018 with an older Thunderbolt Dock by Akitio (connected via Apple's Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter and a 5m Thunderbolt Cable by Corning). I did not experience any distortion or dropouts so far with my Digiface USB (Driver v3.10) plugged into one of the USB 3 ports of the Dock.

Yes, that's the setup I am working with (except that I have a MBP 15", 2018). I still have audio dropouts due to CPU spikes. But at least it is functional. When I connected my FF 802 via USB it was impossible to work or stream any audio with it.

Do the spikes show in Activity Monitor? I was under the impression the commonly reported USB dropouts do not accompany visible CPU spikes and are due instead to OSX background checks taking priority on the same thread?

You have to look at the CPU meter directly in Logic. It occurs at low buffer size. But maybe that is a Macbook specific issue.

You can watch this video:

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This guy reproduces the bug on a MacBook Pro 2018. I don't know if this is the same on the Mac mini.

Anyone could help determine what might have caused text distortion once it gets rotated (looks fine unrotated)? I do rotation in Vport using Dview & Twist (see image to the left). Image to the right is a test using empty acadiso.dwt. Both are MTEXT's, both use standard Annotative text style, same print settings. Using 2018 version.

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