http://www.amara.org/en/videos/NySYWMoWl7y4/info/asl-interpreted-news-deaf-twins-choose-death-over-blindness/

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Booger Bender

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Jan 21, 2013, 7:46:39 AM1/21/13
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While I understand that someone added captions about the same story in which is being said it's not an accurate translation of the video. For hearing folks this may be enough to get an idea but it's not what everything being said. Hopefully we could find someone who can translate and caption this properly. It should be noted that the story was transcribed on the person's video.
Deaf viewers would think it's strange. Just thought I'd point this out.

Stephanie Jo Kent

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Jan 21, 2013, 8:06:57 AM1/21/13
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Hi everyone,

I apologize for not contributing or even following most of the conversations that occur in this group. My energies are scattered and my time management needs to improve. 

Is this video in American Sign Language? If so, I can look at it. Please guide me to it.

Thanks,
steph


On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 7:46 AM, Booger Bender <dmaho...@gmail.com> wrote:
While I understand that someone added captions about the same story in which is being said it's not an accurate translation of the video. For hearing folks this may be enough to get an idea but it's not what everything being said. Hopefully we could find someone who can translate and caption this properly. It should be noted that the story was transcribed on the person's video.
Deaf viewers would think it's strange. Just thought I'd point this out.

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Dylan Mahoney

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Jan 21, 2013, 8:13:12 AM1/21/13
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Stephanie Jo Kent

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Jan 21, 2013, 8:18:41 AM1/21/13
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Thanks Dylan, I was just typing....

I found it (slow mind, to realize the subject line was the url).  

It seems well-done to me - the newscast voiceover is a little more "cheery" than the objective description provided by the Deaf journalist, but that seems like standard media marketing to me.

Maybe people are just upset with the choice?

I paid more attention to the ASL than the English diction, thus I'm responding to the tone more than the actual diction, but it seems to me the content is correct. Two Deaf men chose not to increase their level of dependence on others. There are a lot of reasons why that could make sense - I wouldn't say their choice was against being or becoming blind, but rather the failure of our society to be one in which necessary interdependence is the norm rather than the exception. 

Dylan Mahoney

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Jan 21, 2013, 8:23:23 AM1/21/13
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Thanks for your input Stephanie. I gave it a second look and watched the video without subs and with subs again. You're right with that assessment. Originally i was thrown off with the sync timing then again it was difficult for me to simultaneously read English and ASL same time. it created a brain fart. Thank you very much for confirming that it's correct. I commented on the video that I stood corrected. The timing might need to be slightly corrected however, like you said seems to be pretty on the spot.
cheers.


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Claude Almansi

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Jan 21, 2013, 9:17:40 AM1/21/13
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The funny thing is that this is the video I wrote you about yesterday,
Dylan, proposing to have double subs: in normal English for the spoken
English and very literal ones for the signed interpretation - but then
Heather Barnes forestalled me and already made the subs for the spoken
English :D

So, would someone be willing to "squat" an "English, British" subtitle
set with a literal English translation of what is signed? By very
literal, I mean like the all caps subs in "Jonathan Coulton - First of
May - ASL Song" <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEjRHFom1Kk>. For me,
as non signer, the double subtitling of that video was a revelation of
the economy and richness of signing. But as some people might be put
off by its bawdiness, it would be nice to do the same for other signed
videos too.

Best

Claude

Dylan Mahoney

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Jan 21, 2013, 9:39:36 AM1/21/13
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i've been so busy lately and between both worlds. you have to give amazing props to those who have the skills to caption asl. its tough for me to have both subs and asl but each person is different. :)


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Stephanie Jo Kent

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Jan 21, 2013, 10:05:21 AM1/21/13
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Dylan I'm really glad you're doing as much as you can, thank you thank you.


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Dylan Mahoney

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Jan 21, 2013, 10:08:01 AM1/21/13
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You're welcome. I have a passion in making sure everyone has accessible subtitles. I need it myself since I'm Deaf. I know how it feels to be left out so this is why it's my goal to bridge the gap between both worlds. Hence why we have Amara. :)


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Claude Almansi

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Jan 22, 2013, 1:14:03 PM1/22/13
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Hi Steph and Dylan and All

What about taking this discussion directly to the Captions Requested team too, via Amara messaging? It is bang within the team's mission to create a bridge between dead and hearing culture. And though this Google group is linked to in the team's description, possibly not all team members watch it: yesterday, I caught up with archiving the list of team's videos here, and ca 40 archiving posts may have put off those who were watching it. So, via Amara messaging, with a copy here, as we did in other cases, for further discussion b all.
Another reason is that there's also been an off-list e-mail discussion about signing <-> captioning based on this video, with interesting inputs - thinking of Vivienne Tran's in particular.

So I was thinking that we could ask team participants who can and do subtitle ASL in the team if they would make literal subtitles for what is signed (i.e. turning of the audio if they are hearers) in ASL Interpreted News, Deaf Twins choose death over blindness  in another track: in could be an "ASL subtitles" track, if we explain that it's actually for a literal English translation of ASL. We could also create a double track with both subtitles for what is signed and for what is spoken showing together

This way, people who are interested in ASL but don't know it could ask questions about a concrete example, and then we could move on from there to related issues.

best,

Claude





Dylan Mahoney

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Jan 22, 2013, 2:04:35 PM1/22/13
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hehe ... The Dead can't do much Claude. ;) Good Idea for the Deaf and hearing hehe. Sounds like a great plan Claude. is this something feasible (dean,jules,nicholas,etc..)?








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Dean Jansen

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Jan 22, 2013, 2:06:07 PM1/22/13
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Sounds OK to me, if it works for everyone else.

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Joly MacFie

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Jan 23, 2013, 5:09:58 AM1/23/13
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On this business of "squatting" another language, perhaps it would be desirable to add an "other" option  with a description field?

 j

steph-gmail

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Jan 22, 2013, 2:31:06 PM1/22/13
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I don't actually understand the relationship (or the technology involved) between this email team (?) and Amara, and I'm not able to contribute much, but I do wonder if doing what I did with that newscast might be a useful role - and thus a way I could contribute sometimes?

As to the dual-captioning discussion, making the literal ASL visible via glossing coyld backfire, but it may also be instructive. In this case, it could be a way of making the diction more transparent.

steph on the move
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Claude Almansi

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Jan 23, 2013, 4:35:25 PM1/23/13
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Wow, attempting to reply to you all in reverse chronological order:

@ Joly re:

> On this business of "squatting" another language, perhaps it would be
> desirable to add an "other" option with a description field?


I fully second that, and also for the video's language indication: it
would enable us to correctly describe
a) the various sign languages used in videos, of which Jules has
kindly offered on the help forum to add some, but there are heaps
more;
b) videos in more than one language: e.g. I described
<http://www.amara.org/en/videos/0CbqnFr4lOhH/info/revoir-le-concert-en-grece-la-revanche-des-reves-avec-angelique-ionatos/>
as being in "French" and made "French subtitles" for it - but the
video and my subtitles are probably half and half French and Greek,
possibly more Greek than French.
And it would allow the correct description of thusly labeled YT subtitles.

But when I suggested this same solution before, the answer way it
wouldn't work. But I can't remember the reason. Could someone
reexplain them, please - or rather, see how they could be overcome?

@ Dean: thank you for your OK

@ Dylan, about the feasibility of such an "ASL subtitles" track: good
thing you asked.
I.e. *in theory*, it could be created in 2 simple ways via the links
under the video:

1) Start a new translation link, inputting "Subtitle into American
Sign Language / Translate from English" and once in the translation
widget, use the Convert to timed text option.
2) upload link, inputting "Language: American Sign Language /
Translate from English or nothing if the software accepts nothing for
Translate from (sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't), uploading a
.txt file with just one mock subtitle to be deleted afterwards.

However, what is the risk that this would wake up the Amara Subtitle
Messing Retired User Bug (1)? Presently, there are 2 sets of subs,
both completed: English and Polish (translated from English). So if I
first download them, even if that Bug should hit, I guess I should be
able to reupload them? Jules? Dean?

Best,

Claude


(1) See bookmarks listed in <http://www.diigo.com/user/calmansi/AASMRUB>

Claude Almansi

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Jan 24, 2013, 6:08:14 AM1/24/13
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Re:

On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 10:35 PM, Claude Almansi
<claude....@gmail.com> wrote:
>(...)
>
> @ Dylan, about the feasibility of such an "ASL subtitles" track: good
> thing you asked.
> I.e. *in theory*, it could be created in 2 simple ways via the links
> under the video:
>
> 1) Start a new translation link, inputting "Subtitle into American
> Sign Language / Translate from English" and once in the translation
> widget, use the Convert to timed text option.
> 2) upload link, inputting "Language: American Sign Language /
> Translate from English or nothing if the software accepts nothing for
> Translate from (sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't), uploading a
> .txt file with just one mock subtitle to be deleted afterwards.
>
> However, what is the risk that this would wake up the Amara Subtitle
> Messing Retired User Bug (1)? Presently, there are 2 sets of subs,
> both completed: English and Polish (translated from English). So if I
> first download them, even if that Bug should hit, I guess I should be
> able to reupload them? Jules? Dean?
(...)
> (1) See bookmarks listed in <http://www.diigo.com/user/calmansi/AASMRUB>

I decided to risk method 1, after downloading the existing subs
(English, Polish and now German too) and it didn't mess them up,
fortunately. So now there's an ASL sub track too -
<http://www.amara.org/en/videos/NySYWMoWl7y4/ase/492557/>, with one
mock subtitle to be deleted eventually, saying:

"This American Sign Language subtile set is for making English subs of
what is signed: please make them short and as literal as possible,
respecting the ASL syntax: the idea is to allow non signers to
understand how ASL works. Please delete this first sub when you have
finished - CA)"

Best,

Claude



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Dylan Mahoney

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Jan 24, 2013, 2:21:01 PM1/24/13
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Thank you Claude,

works for me.


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Claude Almansi

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Jan 28, 2013, 11:19:18 AM1/28/13
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Copy of the message sent now to the Amara Captions Requested team:

Subject: "Subtitling Signed Videos"

Message:
"Dear participants of the Captions Requested team,

Big thanks for all the captions and subtitles you are adding to the team's videos, and also collaboratively: on several occasions, I've found subtitles I had barely stated completed, at times overnight, by some of you. It's so encouraging to know that this can happen when one embarks on subtitling/captioning a long video!

Now about the subject of this message: "Subtitling Signed Videos". It is fabulous that some of you can and do subtitle videos that are only in Sign Languages - if I remember correctly, so far in American Sign Language: this is so useful for non signers who try to understand how signed communication works.

Last week, however,  there was an interesting discussion in https://groups.google.com/d/topic/universal-subtitles-deaf-hoh/v_ijXX5Vh8o/discussion (1),   about the http://www.amara.org/en/videos/NySYWMoWl7y4/info/asl-interpreted-news-deaf-twins-choose-death-over-blindness/ video, which is both in ASL and in spoken English.
Heather Barnes had made English subtitles of the spoken English - thank you, Heather! But what about also subtitling, very literally, what is in ASL? This would enable comparisons between the two languages, a kind of Rosetta stone for non signers.
So I made an "American Sign Language" subtitle track, http://www.amara.org/en/videos/NySYWMoWl7y4/ase/492557/ and explained it in a 1st mock-subtitle to be deleted when the real subs are completed:
"(This American Sign Language subtile set is for making English subs of what is signed: please make them short and as literal as possible, respecting the ASL syntax: the idea is to allow non signers to understand how ASL works. Please delete this first sub when you have finished - CA)"

Anyone interested?

***
Then another very useful video in ASL has been added to the team by Booger Bender: http://www.amara.org/en/videos/Ztvd7C1IQgEE/info/do-you-lipread-reframed/ : a short, witty illustration of how to induce hearers to reframe their perspective on deaf people. As it was already subtitled in English on YouTube, the subtitles got transfered to Amara. But perhaps their syncing could be improved? I barely started the online ASL course recommended by Vivienne Tran (see note 1), so I can't really tell, unfortunately.

I'll copy this message as a reply in the mentioned https://groups.google.com/d/topic/universal-subtitles-deaf-hoh/v_ijXX5Vh8o/discussion thread, in case you want to discuss it more openly than Amara messaging allows.

Best wishes,

Claude Almansi


(1) i.e. in the "Amara – Deaf & Hard of Hearing Discussion List" Google group http://groups.google.com/group/universal-subtitles-deaf-hoh - thanks also to Vivienne Tran for the precious explanations she gave me "off-group", and for the link to the great http://www.lifeprint.com/ online ASL course."
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