Caption Requested: The Collapse of The American Dream Explained in Animation

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Booger Bender

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Jan 4, 2013, 6:36:12 PM1/4/13
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captions for this animations are mislabeled.

English subtitles are in Russian.

http://www.amara.org/en/videos/EWwRBDz7PqSK/info/the-collapse-of-the-american-dream-explained-in-animation/

Claude Almansi

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Jan 4, 2013, 7:48:37 PM1/4/13
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Thanks for pointing out this isue Dylan

However, the "English" subs made by simonov  for The Collapse of The American Dream Explained in Animation are not in Russian, but in Bulgarian. I.e. the Activity suppage of the video shows that he first mistakenly made the Bulgarian subs as "English" subs, then "translated" them as Bulgarian subs, probably copy-pasting tem.

Issue 1: Because simonov's Bulgarian subs appear as "translated from English", I'd be very wary of deleting the present "English" subs, should you be able to as Amara staff, lest this deletes the legit Bulgarian subs too..
One workaround might be to first make the Bulgarian subs autonomous by using the "Convert to Timed Subtitles (advanced)" option in the editing widget, then delete the "English" subs. But as simonov did the subs before the video was added to Captions Requested, he should be consulted about it, which leads to:

Issue 2: simonov hasn't joined any team yet, so I don't know how to contact him, because the "send a message" link has been removed from users' profiles with the last revision of the Amara software: the link only appears in teams' member lists. As Amara staff, do you know how to message him for permission to do the above workaround on his Bulgarian subs?

Meanwhile, I've downloaded the Bulgarian and the Portuguese, Brazilian subs as a precaution. And we can start English, British subs.

Best,

Claude

Dylan Mahoney

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Jan 4, 2013, 9:28:32 PM1/4/13
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I don't have an answer about finding Simonov however, it would be nice if there was a global access to amara users instead of teams this way if you know the person whom you're seeking thats a member of Amara you can contact them instead of by team only. I wonder if that can be added to access on mailing. Sorry about the wrong assumption of language. It looked Cyrillic so, I guessed Russian. Anyhow I wasn't sure how to solve issue so I opened a post. let's take a guess and try sim...@gmail.com ?




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Booger Bender

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Jan 4, 2013, 9:33:12 PM1/4/13
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Correction: Subs are in Bulgarian labeled as English not in Russian
Sorry for the confusion.

Claude Almansi

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Jan 5, 2013, 2:37:14 AM1/5/13
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On Saturday, January 5, 2013 3:28:32 AM UTC+1, Booger Bender wrote:
I don't have an answer about finding Simonov however, it would be nice if there was a global access to amara users instead of teams this way if you know the person whom you're seeking thats a member of Amara you can contact them instead of by team only. I wonder if that can be added to access on mailing. Sorry about the wrong assumption of language. It looked Cyrillic so, I guessed Russian. Anyhow I wasn't sure how to solve issue so I opened a post. let's take a guess and try sim...@gmail.com ?

Errrh i wouldn't try that gmail address: it could belong to heaps other people whose surname is Simonov.

But I had an idea: if, in the Member list of Captions requested, the URL for sending a message to you is http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/messages/new/?user=Booger_Bender and the one for sending a message to nick3 is http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/messages/new/?user=nick3, this suggests that these messaging links are not team-specific, but just based on http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/messages/new/?user=amara_username. So http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/messages/new/?user=simonov should work, shouldn't it?

Worth a shot, maybe?

Best,

Claude

Claude Almansi

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Jan 5, 2013, 2:52:48 AM1/5/13
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Funny: I can't use gmail on the web (500 error) but the app on this android tablet works. I must remember to check emails on that.

Best,

Claude

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Dylan Mahoney

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Jan 5, 2013, 7:38:24 AM1/5/13
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genius claude. :)
This is why I hired you. you're the best.


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Dylan Mahoney

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Jan 5, 2013, 7:44:29 AM1/5/13
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I have tried the url I haven't yet emailed simonov however, the formatting for the amara mail works well. well done Claude, well done.

Claude Almansi

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Jan 6, 2013, 5:31:08 AM1/6/13
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Hi Dylan,

Actually, simonov responded to a comment I left in
http://www.amara.org/en/videos/EWwRBDz7PqSK/info/the-collapse-of-the-american-dream-explained-in-animation/#comments
. So I have now:

- made the real "Bulgarian" subs independent from the "English" subs,
by converting the Bulgarian ones to timed text

- in the "English" subs, replaced the former Bulgarian subs by 1 sub
that says: "For the time being, the English subs are being made as
"English, British subtitles". See the comments to the main page for
the video."

the0untitled and I are now proceeding with these English, British
subs: she transcribes, I sync. When they are complete, we'll ask
someone at Amara to transfer them to the "English" track, if no one
has started translating them in the mean time.

Best,

Claude

Dylan Mahoney

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Jan 6, 2013, 9:17:58 AM1/6/13
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Claude,

This is an excellent example of communication between our contributors and admins. I'm glad we were able to resolve that issue. The English subtitles seemed pretty good. Question is how do we move it back to "English"?


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Claude Almansi

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Jan 6, 2013, 3:37:52 PM1/6/13
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Hi Dylan,

Re transfering the "English, British" subs to "English":

1) If no one starts translating from the "English, British" subs: once
we - reasonably - finish theses "English, British" subs,
- we download them
- we ask for the deletion of both "English" and "English, British"
tracks on the help forum - in
http://support.universalsubtitles.org/categories/6573/forums/28027/topics/8834
;
- we reupload the downloaded subs as "English", acknowledging
participating subtitlers in a comment and/or a last sub.

2) If someone starts translating from the "English, British" subs into
another language:
- we only ask for the deletion of the "English" subs until the
translation is reasonably finished according to the translator
- when it is, we remove the translation's dependence from the
"English, British" subs by doing "convert to timed text" on the
translation
- we downlad the "English, British" subs
- we ask or their deletion on the help forum
- we reupload them as "English", acknowledging participating
subtitlers in a comment and/or a last sub.

In both cases, all collaborators to the "English, British" subs will
have to ask for their deletion on the help forum: otherwise Jules,
logically, will refuse.

Re collaboration so far: yes, it's been great. But bear in mind that
simonov is not a member of the Captions Requested team. So it's not so
much a team collaboration, but a per video collaboration. What's
really needed is the possibility for any collaborator in subtitling a
given video to easily send Amara messages to all other collaborators
involved in it.

Final thing: I was about the only Amara member to test the new team
dashboard, and expressed my strong doubts about the irrelevance of
dashboard suggestions. Now that it has been implemented for real, I
understand its use less and less. Do you?

Best,

Claude

Dylan Mahoney

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Jan 6, 2013, 3:52:41 PM1/6/13
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I agree with the dashboard suggestions, shouldn't that be for owners/admin and amara? I never really used it because i don't see much of a use for suggestions because, if there's a problem it gets reported plain/simple. not really worth it unless you are constantly developing something then a suggestion would be internal or at least admin accessible. I don't have too much to complain really we have it pretty good for our teams. When we first started we didn't have much now we do.

Thanks for being my best admin you rock.


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Claude Almansi

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Jan 6, 2013, 6:58:37 PM1/6/13
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On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 9:52 PM, Dylan Mahoney <dmaho...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I agree with the dashboard suggestions, shouldn't that be for owners/admin
> and amara? I never really used it because i don't see much of a use for
> suggestions because, if there's a problem it gets reported plain/simple. not
> really worth it unless you are constantly developing something then a
> suggestion would be internal or at least admin accessible.

Sorry: I meant the team dashboard with personalized subtitling
suggestions that now appears on the main page of the team, e.g.
http://www.amara.org/en/teams/musiccaptioning/ , where before there
was the straightforward list of added videos. As these suggestions
are personalized, I don't know which ones you get, but the ones I get
are overwhelmingly unfeasible: they suggest I make subs in languages I
can only translate from, not into.

It happens that I can translate into 3 of the 6 languages I listed for
Amara. But imagine someone who can only write in one language, though
understands 5 more (not uncommon). S/he'll get an even greater
proportion of unfeasible suggestions to translate subs in languages
s/he can't write in. Moreover, the last software update scrapped the
one data that might have helped towards making these suggestions work:
the preferred language indication.

> I don't have too
> much to complain really we have it pretty good for our teams. When we first
> started we didn't have much now we do.

I beg to disagree: when I joined the Occupy Wall Street team you
created, it had a discussion board on the side of the main page, but
it got scrapped. And that was much more useful than all the
moderation and workflow options that got added: remember the thorough
mess the imposition of workflows caused in Music Captioning last June?

Workflows might be OK for teams that have a very robust
external-to-Amara subtitling structure and a strong core of pro
subtiters, like TED. For teams whose goals just attract volunteers,
like Music Captoning, Captions Requested or OCW, ease of communication
is the one crucial element.

Sure, simonov, the0untitled and I managed nonetheless to sort out the
issue with the "English" subs in Bulgarian for "The Collapse of The
American Dream". But the video being added to the Captions Requested
team played no role whatsoever in the solution.

Moreover, if Captions Requested had been workflowed, the only way to
solve the issue would have been to remove the video from the team, to
get rid of the obstacles the workflows would create: just as I removed
heaps of videos from Music Captioning last June when the imposition of
workflows caused havoc in collaborative subtitling.

> Thanks for being my best admin you rock.

Thanks for the compliment: you rock as owner too.

Best,

Claude
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