What animal signifies Unity?
devnet
http://www.princetonol.com/groups/iad/lessons/middle/animals2.htm
A Bird.
What is the 'smallest' bird? Finches of course! Since Unity aims to
be a small base...I figured finches would be perfect. So, it got me
thinking...what if we were to do a profile block with a finch like the
Evernote Elephant logo but with a finch?? http://evernote.com/
Just something to think about...
Richard
Actually the smallest bird is a hummingbird I think,
http://www.victorialodging.com/recreation/birding/small-big-fast-slow
But I like the idea, how about a wren?
http://williamthecoroner.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/wren_300_tcm9-142549.jpg
With the uptilted tail it is more recogniseable and everyone knows wrens are
small, (and they make a lot of noise for their size :) )
Jeremiah Summers
I think the bird thing is too wide spread look at all the stuff that use birds.. IE Twitter, Songbird, Audium, pidgin.. I would stay away from animals. Just my opinion.
devnet
Twitter, Songbird, Audium and pidgin aren't distros.
devnet
I like the wren...
What I'm thinking of is having just a shadow outline of a bird...much
like evernote does with their elephant or mono does with their monkey.
I'm not very good though at graphics so I have nothing to show for it
but an idea...
gettinther
All the logos available were uploaded to the gallery and voting will
commence asap.
http://graphics.unity-linux.org/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=1
Please vote for your favorites and lets get the ball rolling.
At the end of the week end (so we've got 48h), we'll isolate the top
15 voted logos for a second round after which the top 5 will be
selected for the next phase of the design (which includes colors,
volume, effects and so on). As you'll see some logos already have
color and stuff but I think you guys should look as what the concept
behind the logo can become.
Please, can everyone limit their vote to 5 max. It's important to
make this exercise worthwhile.
Jeremiah Summers
spiralofhope
devnet <dev...@gmail.com> wrote:
> A Bird.
Something I just thought of..
The finch is also the posterboy (posterbird?) for evolution's early
research - it was a big part of Darwin's work.
ruel24
> There's a bird outline one on there that I actually like ;)
countless religious groups wouldn't be a good idea. It's a dove and an
olive branch, but it could lose the olive branch and be just a bird...
Christopher Wrinn
Olive Branch is also very used, so are birds. This is a volatile area.
devnet
Works pretty well for songbird and pidgin...they seem to not incur the
popes wrath...
Christopher Wrinn
this is exactly what I mean. Pidgin already uses a Pigeon, Songbird
already uses a little bird, which a "Finch" could easily get confused
with. you say "neither are distros", but they operate in a similar
market, F/OSS. And, I might remind you, Finches and Pigeons are not
Doves carrying Olive branches. Also, Songbird and Pidgin do not use
Olive branches.
A bird outside of a Dove does not inspire much in the meaning of
"Unity", most especially in respect to our project. Here, allow me to
show you the drawing board, time to go back to it. :D
ruel24
used, but using a different representation, or a different approach to
a similar symbol is acceptable. I mean, how many logos have used the
idea of a tree, yet we tried to get a unique representation of it. It
would be impossible to get a symbol that's completely unused somewhere
else. We just need to find a suitable one and make it uniquely ours.
Christopher Wrinn
which is what we're voting on right now, we have a broad range of
paths, and they need to be narrowed.
devnet
In my opinion, all the great themes have been used up already and
turned into theme parks. Having an original logo without a design
firm would take us years. Having an "acceptable" logo that isn't used
by any other Linux distro is something I can live with.
I don't know of any other popular distro out there that has darwin's
finch as a logo.
Christopher Wrinn
gone over this before, we aren't just going for an "acceptable" logo
here, nor are we just going for a pretty picture. This is design, not
art class. Now, we're most of the way THROUGH a design process. And
I'm not going for completely original, originality died out with or
before the Greeks. However, I am wanting to keep it unique and on
focus. Your idea isn't a bad idea, but we're pointing out the possible
flaws with it and where you have to be careful. No one has come up and
blatantly called it a stupid idea, because it isn't, so please stop
taking it as such.
Now, can we keep on track? Have you voted on your 3 favorites yet? Has
everyone already voted on those? When that process is done, we open up
to a public submission for derivatives OF THOSE 3 chosen BY the
_team_.
gettinther
OK guys, I'm closing the vote this evening or tomorrow morning. Can
you check if the people who didn't vote want to or prefer to abstain?
I will hand over the process then to the gfx team to bring it to the
main forum and handle user submissions. It would also be a nice touch
to contact the users who posted proposals to inform them that the
"designs" have been selected and we would like to see what they can do
with the various concepts.
devnet
>
> Ok, let's put this bluntly. We're past this part of the process. We've
> gone over this before, we aren't just going for an "acceptable" logo
> here, nor are we just going for a pretty picture. This is design, not
> art class.
No need to get snippy. Most of us have only been through art
class...and I think everyone at this point would be more than happy
with an "acceptable" logo because they're sick to death of the design
vs. art debacle that helped to convince a majority of the team that
their logo would be immediately rejected if it shared any traits with
any logo in existence.
What I'm trying to do with my replies is to get people out of the
dismissive mode. Everyone is so gun shy right now that most of the
logo submissions were from one person; that means something is
faulty...and I'd like us to take off our rose colored glasses and work
with our _team_ of graphics guys who are not a bunch of professional
designers...and not make them so gun shy that they don't want to
submit a logo for fear that it will be dismissed within minutes.
Remember too that out of everyone here, I probably have the most
experience in the process of selecting a logo for a Linux
distribution...in fact, I've been involved in 2 logo selection
processes...one for PCLOS and the other for Foresight (leading the
pclos one and helping with the Foresight one).
Of course, this and a subway token will get me on the subway.
I'm not saying that makes me special but it does give me
something...experience. When you go to hack the kernel, you gonna
talk to someone who's never done it or someone who has before? I also
have worked with large groups of dissimilar people for almost 2 years
at mypclinuxos and that gave me a unique perspective on how groups
behave...what I see is gun shy people. I don't see a fluid team
working together and that's what should be happening.
> Now, we're most of the way THROUGH a design process. And
> I'm not going for completely original, originality died out with or
> before the Greeks. However, I am wanting to keep it unique and on
> focus. Your idea isn't a bad idea, but we're pointing out the possible
> flaws with it and where you have to be careful. No one has come up and
> blatantly called it a stupid idea, because it isn't, so please stop
> taking it as such.
>
> Now, can we keep on track? Have you voted on your 3 favorites yet?
I've voted.
I'm not taking it as people calling my idea stupid...and even if they
did, it wouldn't matter to me. What I am taking issue with is that
ideas are dismissed because "there is this program out there that uses
a mammal and since you're suggestion is a mammal, we can't use it". I
think we can't have enough logos submitted, even if they are
repeats...just like a brainstorming session in a business meeting.
> Has everyone already voted on those? When that process is done, we open up
> to a public submission for derivatives OF THOSE 3 chosen BY the
> _team_.
>
I think most people have voted. Hopefully, critique on the public
submission will be well after the submission period is over. Having
critique happen during the initial design/creative phase may work for
a design firm and for professional designers...but it does lousy for a
loose community of developers with little design experience...it only
discourages them.
That's all I got... I don't have a personal dog in any fights here as
I left this list to avoid stumbling others. If that's what I'm doing
here, sorry...what I'm attempting to do is change the 'shoot first,
ask questions later' attitude that has plagued the project from the
beginning. Let's not dismiss ideas out of the gate and instead build
on them.
Michael Dill
Achtung!
--
Michael Dill
madi...@comcast.net
--
"If builders built buildings the way programmers write programs,
the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization."
Christopher Wrinn
this project forewards. You are bringing up ideas already brought up
after the phase for bringing up general ideas has already commenced
and completed, in which time there were many submissions by a plethora
of people. The phase was ended, and the ball was dropped on moving to
the next phase. The answer is not to move back to Phase 1 and starting
over, but picking up the ball and getting it rolling again. It's
rolling, it's going, and that's how that goes. No one has "shot" any
ideas down, you simply continue to feel that people making comments on
an idea is shooting, hence why you brought up the idea back when of
not submitting for 2 weeks and everyone submitting in bulk. Reasons to
be cautious for using a Bird:
1. Possible religious connotations.
2. Birds are very used, so it'd have to be made extremely unique.
3. It's not a symbol that immediately implies the "Unity" that this
project is based upon.
This is not "Shooting down" an idea. This is called warnings. It is
not saying "This cannot be used" this is saying "Be careful using
this".
And don't go waving your experience card around. Everyone on this team
has experience that is beneficial to the team. So you have experience
making a logo, you should know perfectly well the importance of
branding and uniqueness. Foresight is a very unique logo; one of the
best I've seen for a Distro. It does have a religious connotation to
it; Egyptian; but if that's how they want to be portrayed, then fine.
devnet
>
> Simply put, you are moving this project backwards, I am trying to move
> this project forewards.
Having a dialogue about what worked and what didn't on a process we
_already are finished with_ is called learning from your mistakes and
talking about what worked and what didn't. I'd have created a new
topic if I didn't feel it was pertinent as an example. If learning
from your mistakes moves a project backwards, I'm a monkeys Uncle
(gettinther, your ears are big my nephew!)
>
> And don't go waving your experience card around.
What else do I have to offer this team other than my organizational
and project management experience? Experience is as experience does.
Many people weren't part of the community when my experience took
place in pclos logo process...telling them, "I've been there before
and have done that" isn't waving a card around...it's telling people
that I'm not just saying things on a whim to be an arsehole about
stuff...it's saying, Hey, this worked before...why can't it work
again?
Anyways, this is the last I'll talk on this issue...I will however,
request that the team has a meeting talking openly about what they
feel worked and what didn't work after the logo is selected. We learn
from our mistakes. Lessons learned should always close out an
initiative.
Michael Dill
conceived it's embarrassing. Even at this late point it's still
contentious and impolite to say the least.
I have arrived at the point where I don't care if we have a logo or
not. It's just been to damn divisive! I have not voted on a logo and I
won't. I'm fed up.
In my view - the only way we will ever have a logo that is truly a
'Unity' logo - is to start this whole damn thing over again and make
sure that we do it in a unified manner. Failing that, I don't care
about our logo at all. It's really damaging this project.
--Theoden
Christopher Wrinn
>request that the team has a meeting talking openly about what they
>feel worked and what didn't work after the logo is selected. We learn
>from our mistakes. Lessons learned should always close out an
>initiative.
+1
I'm all for this, but I am not for the idea of starting over. Yes, the
process started in a very rocky and unplanned manner, but we've got
logo submissions and they are mostly very good. I fail to believe that
starting over will prove better results at this point. What I propose
is get the public submissions done and over with, then have a gfx team
meeting and planning out the last phase of the logo design from there.
And yes, after the logo is completely finished, we can sit down and do
a "Review" meeting. This is a good idea.
spiralofhope
devnet <dev...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I will however, request that the team has a meeting talking openly
> about what they feel worked and what didn't work after the logo is
> selected.
+1
A post-mortem discussion when things are wrapped up is always useful.
It helps us see what worked and what didn't, and learn from our
successes and mistakes.
gettinther
I saw a lot of good comments from all parties since my last post.
I will just say this.
The way the development of the logo was carried out by the gfx team
lacked clarity. However I do understand that the same members were
happy with the results of their actions. We asked them for something,
they delivered.
I do understand that alternate ideas will keep on coming as each of us
has his/her idea of what the ideal logo should look like.
I know the concepts chosen don't look like much as of yet but give the
gfx guys a chance to unleash their talent, as well as the guys on the
forum.
This period was a trying time because there was so many decisions to
be made and we decided to make them as a team. It was long, it was
tough and nearly broke us. But going forward it will also bring us
together.
Christopher Wrinn
ruel24
This really was made more complicated than it needed to be, and I
agree with Devnet on his points. People were simply pushed away from
submitting because they were criticized so heavily or were told
they're wasting their time with something. I don't care what's
submitted, it can inspire someone else to come up with something that
will work. As a matter of fact, some of the submissions I made that
are leading the vote I was told was pointless. This is why, IMO, the
submissions just vanished. It leaves you wondering if something really
special got left behind...
Hopefully, from here forward, we can work in...pardon the
pun...UNITY...
Just my $.02US...
Gemini
Doves... they're very yummy
We definitely need to set goals, and define them.. be more open, and
to be as honest as I can about criticism, related to the art/design
world... just to clarify it to everyone not familiar with it.
Criticism, in the art/design world, is a very important tool for
development of the artist/designer themselves. In the art/design
world, if one cannot take every form of criticism, they are ultimately
doomed. An artist/designer who can only accept praise and becomes
offended by anything else, will never grow, or be able to survive in
this world they have chosen to be part of.
This is all just complete honesty, and the way it is in this field. I
hope to see no more conflicts along the path of our project, because I
will reinstall those very words... and it truly comes down to as I
said before... if you can't take the heat, it might be better to stay
out of the kitchen... maybe find some mediator to use as a go-between
to corrosponde ideas in such a situation.
Just some helpful thoughts before we venture into this next level. I
hope also not to see "anyone" discouraged from taking part, due to
some criticism they do not like. If it happens, rather than getting
into a heated debate, please, first attempt to ask someone to mediate.
And just for the record... this was not done to stir up any old
debates of the past, but rather to avoid them in the future. :)
I also need to add that I also felt the entire process of the first
stage was made far more difficult that was truly needed. I had the
feeling it would be, right from the start. It is not too difficult to
look back and see our mistakes, and learn from them for this next
round. But also keep in mind, we are dealing with quite a large number
of people with various styles, and views. We do not operate as an art
dept. would within a commercial corporation, so the process should be
expected to take longer. If that is not desired, then choose one
person to refine the logo itself, another to refine the text, let them
work together, and assign others to other areas... that is the
corporate structure of an art dept.
Christopher Wrinn
spiralofhope
Custom Processing Unlimited <cpu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> just an idea on the whole bird thing for the logo...
(^^)
Custom Processing Unlimited
that reference and eagles are usually the most common bird made in
reference alongside the snake (primarily in martial arts, but pretty
common in general)...