thanks for the invite and helping Yoper out

[Tobias Gerschner]

Hi Guys,

I just read through the discussion and I am looking forward to see you
guys in action.

I am currently swamped with work. Over the last month and maybe longer
one of the hard drives on the server that also hosts
dev.unity-linux.org started dying. Despite raid1 and a backup strategy
and smartmontools yoper-linux.org / yoper.com is now completely
without websites as all the backups are unusable and I only have files
of the websites but no databases. So plenty of work ahead.

Regarding the graphics. Please don't feel so restricted in coming up
with new design ideas. The general colors used ( silver / red / black
/ grey ) are known colors for Yoper. Also the Y in Liberation Serif
gives a disctinctive shape. I just thought in terms of recognizing
known elements of a brand one needs to be careful adjusting the
elements. Of course they're allowed to change though.

So if in doubt, say yes. Don't limit yourself with ideas for artwork.
I don't see how that could possibly work.

--
Tobias Gerschner
Yoper Linux - www.yoper-linux.org

Knowing is not enough; we must apply. Willing is not enough; we must do.

[Custom Processing Unlimited]

sorry to hear about your setback... good luck in getting things back where they need to be.  I can only imagine.  But I'm sure we're all in agreement that if you need us for anything, just asking will get the process started. :)

--
"Custom" is NOT mass produced... then it's just a product line.
Custom Processing Unlimited

[gettinther]

Welcome Tobias and I hope we can help you even half as much as you
help us already.

[Gemini]

I'm trying out various looks and fonts...
nothing very impressive to post yet...
Just thought Id stop in and update ;-]

On Apr 9, 5:56 pm, gettinther <gettint...@unity-linux.org> wrote:

[devnet]

On Apr 13, 11:08 am, Gemini <geminiguy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm trying out various looks and fonts...
> nothing very impressive to post yet...
> Just thought Id stop in and update  ;-]

Just a ping to see how everyone is doing...it would be great to get
some graphics posted to the thread even if they are just mockups.


--
Subscription settings: http://groups.google.com/group/unity-graphic/subscribe?hl=en

[Custom Processing Unlimited]

I have to agree... some progress is better than silence...

I'm probably starting to sound like a "yes man" :P

[Paul LeBlanc]

I'm having a tough time getting away from the circle
but... heres just a couple thoughts... color change?

I've done some other items but they just look ridiculous.
It's slow going because of personal issues regarding my home
so bear with me

[Matthew Dawkins]

I think I like 1b better b/c of the change up of where the light comes from, but Toby you're not open to finding a newer or different font? It looks good, but a change can also help bring some attractiveness to the distro too?

[gettinther]

I was wondering if an image could be used rather than a font? Since
yoper = "Your OPERating system" Maybe forget the circle thing and
have a "computer" at the center with the Y symbolizing some sort of
lock / protection for the said computer (make it more like a logo and
less like a letter).

Sorry I can't draw so I'm just throwing ideas in the air.

[Saleem Khan]

I like 2a, because it mentions the whole name of this distribution.
Only the font of text Yoper Linux may need change to something
darker..black/old yoper red and the back ground may need to be changed
from white to something different. Circle with Y and the color and
light proportion look fine imho.

A very different question also here, didnt know where to ask : is Toby
considering to add mylivecd/mklivecd/remasterme/build_yoper to Yoper
Linux?




Dr.Saleem Khan
Abbottabad
Cell # 0333-5393854
Email: drma...@gmail.com
Web: http://saleem-khan.blogspot.com
Registered GNU/Linux User
Since Aug 2003 with # 413133

[Tobias Gerschner]

Hi,


All 3 images have a good side to them. I'd say that 1* and 2* fit
different purposes, though :) . 1 is a logo , 2 could be a banner.

And as stated before. Don't feel obsessed with sticking to the current
conventions. However if we stray to much from what we have it means we
need to further adjust the look of other elements, too. Website logos
/ theming / desktop environments / icon sets etc.

Thanks for your


2010/4/26 Saleem Khan <drma...@gmail.com>:

[Tobias Gerschner]

> A very different question also here, didnt know where to ask : is Toby
> considering to add mylivecd/mklivecd/remasterme/build_yoper to Yoper
> Linux?
>

Please see the following lines as purely technical discussion of the
matter. I am straight up here and well OT anyway.

Last time I looked at mklivecd it did create a snapshot of an
installed system. I do not like this as it encourages to do last
minute adjustments to the system that are not reflected in the
software packages. This is calling for breakage as soon as users start
to update packages.

We have a mature set of scripts that we've been using for 4 years now.
Our scripts build a live / install cd completely from scratch. Albeit
they are simple they provide us with exactly what we need and can be
easily adjusted. There's many tools to build live cds and ours are
tailored to our environment. I don't see a reason to replace what
works with something I personally see as lesser quality by desgin and
would need to be fitted into our environment.

Once again this was a pure technical observation. Not intended as flamebait.

Regards

--
Tobias Gerschner
Yoper Linux - www.yoper-linux.org

Knowing is not enough; we must apply. Willing is not enough; we must do.

[Matthew Dawkins]

On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 5:51 PM, Tobias Gerschner <tobias.g...@gmail.com> wrote:

> A very different question also here, didnt know where to ask : is Toby
> considering to add mylivecd/mklivecd/remasterme/build_yoper to Yoper
> Linux?
>

Please see the following lines as purely technical discussion of the
matter. I am straight up here and well OT anyway.

Last time I looked at mklivecd it did create a snapshot of an
installed system. I do not like this as it encourages to do last
minute adjustments to the system that are not reflected in the
software packages. This is calling for breakage as soon as users start
to update packages.

That's exactly what mklivecd does, "takes snapshots of an installation". It may encourage last minute changes, but that means it also encourages user to remaster their installation and their changes. But don't get that confused with the fact that we can create new isos from scratch by purely installing rpms from our repo. As far as the breakage goes, I think you may need to have a little more experience with remastering and seeing exactly what gets changed and seeing that those issues are not relevant.
 

We have a mature set of scripts that we've been using for 4 years now.
Our scripts build a live / install cd completely from scratch. Albeit
they are simple they provide us with exactly what we need and can be
easily adjusted. There's many tools to build live cds and ours are
tailored to our environment. I don't see a reason to replace what
works with something I personally see as lesser quality by desgin and
would need to be fitted into our environment.

I think this is the same argument for any distro (person) that has invested a significant amount of time in their own way of doing things. It's the common problem FOSS projects have of "Not Invented Here" and the biggest obstacle of ever bringing projects together. The idea of trying to entice people like yourself Tobi, is to get you to actively participate and own your changes in a common project instead of just worrying about the changes specifically tailored to your project. What's stopping you from trying to patch the mklivecd project from working for you?
 

Once again this was a pure technical observation. Not intended as flamebait.

We always appreciate your technical input as it gives us additional perspective to greater view of the project. None the less, I will continually look for ways that two projects at the moment look so distant can still share a common ground.
 

[Saleem Khan]

I very much agree with Matthew Dawkins , if two projects work and
share together it will benefit both and regarding thinking of adding
mklivecd into Yoper will be worth it since Yoper is a rolling release
distro too so allowing the users to remaster it according to their own
need will be a great addition.

[Jeremiah Summers]

On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 9:36 AM, Saleem Khan <drma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I very much agree with Matthew Dawkins , if two projects work and
> share together it will benefit both and regarding thinking of adding
> mklivecd into Yoper will be worth it since Yoper is a rolling release
> distro too so allowing the users to remaster it according to their own
> need will be a great addition.

To be truthful I kinda agree with Tobias. I don't see his point though
where changes would cause breakage as any changes I do (ie wallpaper,
small config changes, etc..) get overwritten anyways by the next rpm
update and hopefully if I'm doing things right in SVN it's been
included in the new rpm. Sometimes it's just easier to do a quick
change that you've already submitted in SVN then to rebuild the whole
package and apply it again. Also sometimes it's easier to uncompress
the livecd.sqfs file and do a change rather then redoing the whole
live build.

I do think that creation from RPM is a much more streamlined process
and make it harder for distribution developers to throw in those last
changes without packaging them. I also feel that it's a cleaner
process. However I think in the minds of users who are just backing up
using the mklivecd method, mklivecd makes more sense as the build is
not be distributed and cleaning out one's personal files is not
needed, but keeping one's personal changes, files and configs is the
point.

However I feel and I have always felt that distribution of a Community
Linux release though MkLiveCD is a sloppy messy process and Synergy
will not be release until we can install cleanly through from rpm
build.

If Tobias doesn't feel the need for his user base to use MkLiveCD than
that's up to him and his user base, but if all else we should be
looking at the rpm install method from Yoper and seeing if it's
something we can learn from.

Jeremiah

[Tobias Gerschner]

I see your point. It's just not an item on the agenda right now.

Tobias Gerschner

[Tobias Gerschner]

Stupid Iphone. Last email went out too early. Anyway. mklivecd might
be a nice tool for users to have the ability to make a poor mans
install cd. I just don't believe mklivecd should be used by
distributors.

Tobias Gerschner

On 29/04/2010, at 4:36, Saleem Khan <drma...@gmail.com> wrote:

[gettinther]

Mklivecd is as good as you want to make it. I can create a chroot
environment and create a livecd purely based on rpms installed within
the chroot with mklivecd (as has been done for the RC series). As
such this is as "pure rpm system" as can be. I have found however
that there is always a need for that "last minute" change, custom
addition to the guest account required for the livecd demo that I do
not wish to see present in a rpm for distribution. In that case being
limited to building from rpm is a hindrance.

There are issues and benefits for both methods. Mklivecd does however
give the opportunity to be really sloppy if one wants to (and get away
with it). At the end of the day it is just a tool and a badly
packaged rpm is as bad as a badly packaged iso. The problem does not
lie with the tool but rather with the implementation one makes of it.

Mklivecd is just a wrapper for tools such as mkinitrd, mkisofs,
mksquashfs and a startup function for the livecd until the image is
mounted and can be booted of its own. Those are the ones doing the
work and are the same ones across almost every "livecd builder"
application.

I hope this makes sense (well it does for me at least). I think all
those scripts from all distros are equally good and it boils down to
what we are used to.

My next step with mklivecd is to remove all dependencies on drakxtools
and other mdv applications (but that's for after the iso final
release). That should make it a lot easier to port to other
distributions.

Cyrille

[Sándor Lisovszki]

All of my remasters..(PClinuxOs 2007 hungarian DVD, PCe17OS isos, Unite17) I made with mklivecd, I think it was devnet who helped to me when i tried mklivcd on the first time.

He wrote to me some extra options, like nodir, bootsplash, nofile etc. and this is workind for me until today...

Easy to use, easy to build isos...

I like it :)

2010/4/28 gettinther <getti...@unity-linux.org>

--
Sandor Lisovszki

[Saleem Khan]

Im sorry since this thread has gone quite off the track now, so can i ask

are we getting final yoper release tomorrow?

thanks

[Tobias Gerschner]

Yes :) today's the day.

Tobias Gerschner

[Matthew Dawkins]

Congrat's Tobi!

[Saleem Khan]

Congrats Tobi, I am getting anxious to put my hands on it asap than
any one else :)



--

[Tobias Gerschner]

2010/4/29 gettinther <getti...@unity-linux.org>:

> Mklivecd is as good as you want to make it.  I can create a chroot
> environment and create a livecd purely based on rpms installed within
> the chroot with mklivecd (as has been done for the RC series).  As
> such this is as "pure rpm system" as can be.  I have found however
> that there is always a need for that "last minute" change, custom
> addition to the guest account required for the livecd demo that I do
> not wish to see present in a rpm for distribution.  In that case being
> limited to building from rpm is a hindrance.
>

I did not want to make mklivecd bad. I was asked about my opinion and
I gave it. You can do many things with many tools. And what you say
here is mostly right and seems to fit your workflow. For us , last
minute changes are not acceptable if they have an impact on quality
down the line.

But to pick up your comment. Our iso creation process does build a
barebone system which comes in a default state. That default state can
be altered by following branch actions. One branch action is the first
boot , another one is the live cd / install mode. Therefore the issue
you are describing is simply not existing by design.

> There are issues and benefits for both methods.  Mklivecd does however
> give the opportunity to be really sloppy if one wants to (and get away
> with it).  At the end of the day it is just a tool and a badly
> packaged rpm is as bad as a badly packaged iso.  The problem does not
> lie with the tool but rather with the implementation one makes of it.

Fully agreed here. But the nature of the tool has an impact on how it
is wielded ... and used.

> Mklivecd is just a wrapper for tools such as mkinitrd, mkisofs,
> mksquashfs and a startup function for the livecd until the image is
> mounted and can be booted of its own.  Those are the ones doing the
> work and are the same ones across almost every "livecd builder"
> application.
>
> I hope this makes sense (well it does for me at least).  I think all
> those scripts from all distros are equally good and it boils down to
> what we are used to.
>
> My next step with mklivecd is to remove all dependencies on drakxtools
> and other mdv applications (but that's for after the iso final
> release).  That should make it a lot easier to port to other
> distributions.
>
> Cyrille
>

That's another aspect I am quite wary of. Right now unity linux is not
a core distro for me. Right now its still a MDV clone. Again just my
personal ( unfiltered view ).

I am very interested in what you guys are doing and I believe in the
goals of your project. Why else would I stick around :) . We just have
different opinions about the path and methods. But that's life :) .

[Tobias Gerschner]

So,

back to graphics here ... .

Just had an idea while sitting in yet another traffic jam in the morning.

How about a rectangle logo , with a Y surrounded by a swirl , which
extends to the right with blurry lines indicating speed and moving
forward?

The idea came when I was thinking about prototype drawings made with a
pencil of car chassis . Imagine the Y a wheel and the logo the
chassis. Hope this explains the idea.

What do you guys think ?

[Custom Processing Unlimited]

sounds interesting, Tobi... I'd like to see what our team comes up with for concept images...  randomly curious, could you do a rough drawing of your idea by pencil, scan it, and submit it to this thread (or another thread specifically about a Yoper Logo)?  that way we can have a base image of what direction you're interested in going in and seeing if we can follow down the same path or a parallel path.  Not necessary, just curious. :)

[Tobias Gerschner]

2010/5/2 Custom Processing Unlimited <cpu...@gmail.com>:

> sounds interesting, Tobi... I'd like to see what our team comes up with for
> concept images...  randomly curious, could you do a rough drawing of your
> idea by pencil, scan it, and submit it to this thread (or another thread
> specifically about a Yoper Logo)?  that way we can have a base image of what
> direction you're interested in going in and seeing if we can follow down the
> same path or a parallel path.  Not necessary, just curious. :)

Hi,

Well I tried ... . Though I think it's going to be counter-productive.
I absolute got no skills in bringing creative ideas to paper or into a
digital usable form.

[Paul LeBlanc]

It's fine... that's a workable image. I'll play around with it and see what I can do with it...

[Custom Processing Unlimited]

SEE... that was a good idea :P

[Custom Processing Unlimited]

I could actually see a Yoper fireball from that scan... :D ..but I hear my eyes need to be checked :P

[Paul LeBlanc]

Everything starts out as a good idea.... like my thermonuclear oven.... then all hell breaks loose hahaha

[Tobias Gerschner]

Well this sketch is so far off from what I have in mind ... sigh.

As you seem to be aiming to please me or get it 100 % I try to
describe it a bit more. However I did not want to do it initially to
avoid caging you into an assumed ideal I am after. But since you're
all asking.

Personally I am a fan of understatement, simple clear elements with a
touch of bling / sparkle . The drawing I did looks crude and bold. But
I actually had something more lightweight in mind. Just imagine this
wheel whooshing through the skies maybe. No idea ,I absolutely got no
talent to express artistic ideas.


2010/5/2 Paul LeBlanc <gemini...@gmail.com>:

[Saleem Khan]

Hello Tobi,

I installed Yoper KDE4, it went smooth, and system is really fast,

one issue regarding nvidia driver

Can't install nvidia173-173.14.20-4._yoper_rocketfuel_@i686: all
packages providing kernel-module-nvidia173 failed to install:
Can't install kernel-module-nvidia173-2.6.31_yos-66-173.14.20-4._yoper_rocketfuel_@i686:
no package provides /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.31_yos-66
Can't install kernel-module-nvidia173-2.6.30_yos-64-173.14.20-3._yoper_rocketfuel_@i686:
no package provides /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.30_yos-64
Can't install kernel-module-nvidia173-2.6.30_yos-62-173.14.20-2._yoper_rocketfuel_@i686:
no package provides /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.30_yos-62

and repos need to be populated, i was trying to install leafpad and
pcmanfm and they are not there

will report more things as i find if there.

regards,

[Paul LeBlanc]

Is this of any interest?
I was going on the sketch you did a little and just playing with some ideas

[Matthew Dawkins]

That's actually kinda cool. I had no clue what Tobi was trying to show, but if that's it, that's cool!

[Gemini]

On May 6, 9:06 pm, Matthew Dawkins <matty...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 6:33 PM, Paul LeBlanc <geminiguy...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> > On Sun, May 2, 2010 at 2:28 AM, Saleem Khan <drmar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Hello Tobi,
>
> >> I installed Yoper KDE4, it went smooth, and system is really fast,
>
> >> one issue regarding nvidia driver
>
> >> Can't install nvidia173-173.14.20-4._yoper_rocketfuel_@i686: all
> >> packages providing kernel-module-nvidia173 failed to install:
> >> Can't install
> >> kernel-module-nvidia173-2.6.31_yos-66-173.14.20-4._yoper_rocketfuel_@i686
> >> :
> >> no package provides /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.31_yos-66
> >> Can't install
> >> kernel-module-nvidia173-2.6.30_yos-64-173.14.20-3._yoper_rocketfuel_@i686
> >> :
> >> no package provides /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.30_yos-64
> >> Can't install
> >> kernel-module-nvidia173-2.6.30_yos-62-173.14.20-2._yoper_rocketfuel_@i686
> >> :
> >> no package provides /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.30_yos-62
>
> >> and repos need to be populated, i was trying to install leafpad and
> >> pcmanfm and they are not there
>
> >> will report more things as i find if there.
>
> >> regards,
>
> >> Dr.Saleem Khan
> >> Abbottabad
> >> Cell # 0333-5393854

> >> Email: drmar...@gmail.com

> >> Web:  http://saleem-khan.blogspot.com
> >> Registered GNU/Linux User
> >> Since Aug 2003 with  # 413133
>
> > Is this of any interest?
> > I was going on the sketch you did a little and just playing with some ideas
>
> That's actually kinda cool. I had no clue what Tobi was trying to show, but
> if that's it, that's cool!

You don't feel it looks a little "Deb-ish"?

[Matthew Dawkins]

I little, but run with the idea.

[Tobias Gerschner]

>> > Is this of any interest?
>> > I was going on the sketch you did a little and just playing with some ideas
>>
>> That's actually kinda cool. I had no clue what Tobi was trying to show, but
>> if that's it, that's cool!
>
> You don't feel it looks a little "Deb-ish"?
>

Haha, You took my sketch way too literal. I knew I suck at that. I
have to dig up some example images / artwork.

[Tobias Gerschner]

Paul ,


Attached is an inkscape document where I briefly drafted the idea .
Again, don't look too much into the graphical way I did things. I got
no talent with graphics or tools related to them. If only I could
explain myself better.

[TobiG77]

So, we had our 2010 release. Received better than expected response
and we're on the path to a respin to be released shortly and honoring
the feedback we got so far.

Is there any chance we can brush up the yoper websites with some new
graphics :) ?

P.S. Not as urgent as the graphics for you. The time frame we have is
~ beta in 2 weeks. Final release in 4 weeks.

[Paul LeBlanc]

Absolutely Tobias.
I apologize for my inactivity on this matter... I am currently moving back into the swing of things...

[Tobias Gerschner]

2010/6/22 Paul LeBlanc <gemini...@gmail.com>:

>
> Absolutely Tobias.
> I apologize for my inactivity on this matter... I am currently moving back
> into the swing of things...
>

There's absolutely no need for apologies. We all use our spare time on
this and got to appreciate any effort that's been made!

So I am going to be patient. But since there was activity anyway I
thought I jump on the band wagon ;) .