Need some help
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Steven Hirsch
Nov 16, 2022, 7:19:51 PM11/16/22
to uni...@googlegroups.com
I've been using QBone with an LSI-11/03 CPU in my Heath H-11 computer. In
this configuration everything is fine. Recently I bought an LSI-11/73
CPU, module M8192-YB, model KDJ-11-AB on eBay and added bussing for
BA18-21 to the backplane. It already appears to have through connection
for BA16-17.
To configure the QBone, I closed all the jumpers marked for Q22 and
installed only the CPU and QBone in the cage.
When I apply power, the three rightmost LEDs on the CPU light. After the
QBone comes up I tried to run a number of different environments, adding
"-aw 22" as an argument. When the emulation software comes up it's always
hanging after the "m i" command with a notice about sizing memory. There
isn't any on the QBus and I would have expected the QBone to supply 4 MB
less the I/O region.
After a while I powered down the system and noticed the ceramic module on
the CPU board was completely cold.
So, am I missing anything critical in trying to configure the hardware or
do I simply have a dead CPU?
Any advice appreciated!
Steve
--
this configuration everything is fine. Recently I bought an LSI-11/73
CPU, module M8192-YB, model KDJ-11-AB on eBay and added bussing for
BA18-21 to the backplane. It already appears to have through connection
for BA16-17.
To configure the QBone, I closed all the jumpers marked for Q22 and
installed only the CPU and QBone in the cage.
When I apply power, the three rightmost LEDs on the CPU light. After the
QBone comes up I tried to run a number of different environments, adding
"-aw 22" as an argument. When the emulation software comes up it's always
hanging after the "m i" command with a notice about sizing memory. There
isn't any on the QBus and I would have expected the QBone to supply 4 MB
less the I/O region.
After a while I powered down the system and noticed the ceramic module on
the CPU board was completely cold.
So, am I missing anything critical in trying to configure the hardware or
do I simply have a dead CPU?
Any advice appreciated!
Steve
--
Lee Adamson
Nov 16, 2022, 8:25:36 PM11/16/22
to UniBone
On page 2-4 of the KDJ11-A CPU Module's user's guide, the diagnostic LEDs are listed as so:
01 Micro-OOT is entered.
02 Module could not do a write and read transaction to the CPU error register. Indicates the microcode is not
running.
03 Module attempted to read location 17 777 560 and timed out. Indicates SLU is not responding.
04 Module attempted to read location 0 and timed out or attempted to read location 17 777 700 and did not time
out. Indicates the memory system is not responding
02 Module could not do a write and read transaction to the CPU error register. Indicates the microcode is not
running.
03 Module attempted to read location 17 777 560 and timed out. Indicates SLU is not responding.
04 Module attempted to read location 0 and timed out or attempted to read location 17 777 700 and did not time
out. Indicates the memory system is not responding
I'm not sure which way you are looking at your card when you say "three rightmost". Table 2-5 suggests that it's "CPU Module Failure" either way.
If you are vtgearhead from the Tandy discord with whom I've been conversing in DMs, send me a message. I have an extra 11/73 cpu module I'd be willing to send you to test with, in case you've been sold a lemon, but I would like it back when you're done with it. ;P
Joerg Hoppe
Nov 17, 2022, 12:46:24 AM11/17/22
to uni...@googlegroups.com
Steve,
two more ideas:
> I've been using QBone with an LSI-11/03 CPU in my Heath H-11 computer.
> In this configuration everything is fine. Recently I bought an
> LSI-11/73 CPU, module M8192-YB, model KDJ-11-AB on eBay and added
> bussing for BA18-21 to the backplane. It already appears to have
> through connection for BA16-17.
>
> To configure the QBone, I closed all the jumpers marked for Q22 and
> installed only the CPU and QBone in the cage.
>
> When I apply power, the three rightmost LEDs on the CPU light. After
> the QBone comes up I tried to run a number of different environments,
> adding "-aw 22" as an argument. When the emulation software comes up
> it's always hanging after the "m i" command with a notice about sizing
> memory.
1st: "Hanging on m i" typically indicates a problem with the DMA grant
chain: DMG/DMR signals.
To probe memory, QBone performs DMA cycles, which must be granted by the
CPU.
All G9047 in place?
What is the H-11 backplane geometry: zig-zagging? QBus also on C-D, or
only on A-B?
2nd: All LSI CPUs need a working UART to display their ODT prompt, and
M8172 has none on-board. What is your QBone config?
So for a first test,
- disable memory emulation
- enable the DL11 UART.
Joerg
two more ideas:
> I've been using QBone with an LSI-11/03 CPU in my Heath H-11 computer.
> In this configuration everything is fine. Recently I bought an
> LSI-11/73 CPU, module M8192-YB, model KDJ-11-AB on eBay and added
> bussing for BA18-21 to the backplane. It already appears to have
> through connection for BA16-17.
>
> To configure the QBone, I closed all the jumpers marked for Q22 and
> installed only the CPU and QBone in the cage.
>
> When I apply power, the three rightmost LEDs on the CPU light. After
> the QBone comes up I tried to run a number of different environments,
> adding "-aw 22" as an argument. When the emulation software comes up
> it's always hanging after the "m i" command with a notice about sizing
> memory.
chain: DMG/DMR signals.
To probe memory, QBone performs DMA cycles, which must be granted by the
CPU.
All G9047 in place?
What is the H-11 backplane geometry: zig-zagging? QBus also on C-D, or
only on A-B?
2nd: All LSI CPUs need a working UART to display their ODT prompt, and
M8172 has none on-board. What is your QBone config?
So for a first test,
- disable memory emulation
- enable the DL11 UART.
Joerg
Jerry Weiss
Nov 17, 2022, 12:56:25 AM11/17/22
to Steven Hirsch, uni...@googlegroups.com
A few things to consider.
Since LED D2 is lit, the microcode hasn't started. I have a M8192 that does this occasionally on one specific backplane. An immediate power cycle or two usually clears the fault. The DC voltages are okay. Of the three electrolytic capacitors on the board, I believe the the one near the handles is part of the wake-up circuity. Using a new substitute didn't change behavior (Figure 4-22 EK-KDJ1A-UG-002_KDJ11-A_CPU_Module_Users_Guide_2ed_Jun86.pdf) . It could be the timing of the BDCOK and BPOK is not within specifications, but I haven't had a chance to check them (yet).
With the microcode not running, I would expect that the CMOS processor is essentially halted with minimum power consumption. Hence cooler than one would expect.
Go back to the basics. The M8192 is designed to work on a 18 bit backplane. You might consider as a last resort, removing the 22 bit jumpers (Ouch!). Only then M8192, a 18 or 16 bit memory card and a basic SLU card would be necessary to check functionality of the processor.
I've abused these boards in many ways since they came out. I have not killed one yet. YMMV.
Good Luck!
Jerry
Since LED D2 is lit, the microcode hasn't started. I have a M8192 that does this occasionally on one specific backplane. An immediate power cycle or two usually clears the fault. The DC voltages are okay. Of the three electrolytic capacitors on the board, I believe the the one near the handles is part of the wake-up circuity. Using a new substitute didn't change behavior (Figure 4-22 EK-KDJ1A-UG-002_KDJ11-A_CPU_Module_Users_Guide_2ed_Jun86.pdf) . It could be the timing of the BDCOK and BPOK is not within specifications, but I haven't had a chance to check them (yet).
With the microcode not running, I would expect that the CMOS processor is essentially halted with minimum power consumption. Hence cooler than one would expect.
Go back to the basics. The M8192 is designed to work on a 18 bit backplane. You might consider as a last resort, removing the 22 bit jumpers (Ouch!). Only then M8192, a 18 or 16 bit memory card and a basic SLU card would be necessary to check functionality of the processor.
I've abused these boards in many ways since they came out. I have not killed one yet. YMMV.
Good Luck!
Jerry
Steven Hirsch
Nov 17, 2022, 10:36:53 AM11/17/22
to Joerg Hoppe, uni...@googlegroups.com
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022, Joerg Hoppe wrote:
> Steve,
>
> two more ideas:
>
>> I've been using QBone with an LSI-11/03 CPU in my Heath H-11 computer. In
>> this configuration everything is fine. Recently I bought an LSI-11/73 CPU,
>> module M8192-YB, model KDJ-11-AB on eBay and added bussing for BA18-21 to
>> the backplane. It already appears to have through connection for BA16-17.
>>
>> To configure the QBone, I closed all the jumpers marked for Q22 and
>> installed only the CPU and QBone in the cage.
>>
>> When I apply power, the three rightmost LEDs on the CPU light. After the
>> QBone comes up I tried to run a number of different environments, adding
>> "-aw 22" as an argument. When the emulation software comes up it's always
>> hanging after the "m i" command with a notice about sizing memory.
>
> 1st: "Hanging on m i" typically indicates a problem with the DMA grant
> chain: DMG/DMR signals.
> To probe memory, QBone performs DMA cycles, which must be granted by the
> CPU. All G9047 in place?
Yes, but I think the CPU is dead and unable to grant the bus.
> Steve,
>
> two more ideas:
>
>> I've been using QBone with an LSI-11/03 CPU in my Heath H-11 computer. In
>> this configuration everything is fine. Recently I bought an LSI-11/73 CPU,
>> module M8192-YB, model KDJ-11-AB on eBay and added bussing for BA18-21 to
>> the backplane. It already appears to have through connection for BA16-17.
>>
>> To configure the QBone, I closed all the jumpers marked for Q22 and
>> installed only the CPU and QBone in the cage.
>>
>> When I apply power, the three rightmost LEDs on the CPU light. After the
>> QBone comes up I tried to run a number of different environments, adding
>> "-aw 22" as an argument. When the emulation software comes up it's always
>> hanging after the "m i" command with a notice about sizing memory.
>
> 1st: "Hanging on m i" typically indicates a problem with the DMA grant
> chain: DMG/DMR signals.
> To probe memory, QBone performs DMA cycles, which must be granted by the
> CPU. All G9047 in place?
> What is the H-11 backplane geometry: zig-zagging? QBus also on C-D, or only
> on A-B?
> 2nd: All LSI CPUs need a working UART to display their ODT prompt, and M8172
> has none on-board. What is your QBone config?
with only a DEC SLU and the CPU present. CPU is strapped for ODT. Still
acts dead :-(.
>
> So for a first test,
> - disable memory emulation
> - enable the DL11 UART.
>
>
> Joerg
>
>
>
>
>> There isn't any on the QBus and I would have expected the QBone to supply 4
>> MB less the I/O region.
>>
>> After a while I powered down the system and noticed the ceramic module on
>> the CPU board was completely cold.
>>
>> So, am I missing anything critical in trying to configure the hardware or
>> do I simply have a dead CPU?
>>
>> Any advice appreciated!
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
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