[Under the moon shadow] 3 Dhukkas

[Frederic Lecut]

When the First Noble Truth is told as “Life is Suffering” most people are unhappy because it sounds very negative to them.  

This is a translation problem.

 The Buddha did not speak English, French or Chinese. He did not use the word “Suffering” but “Dukkha”. Unfortunately, we do not have an accurate word to translate “Dukkha”.

Beside “Suffering” it is sometimes translated as “Stress” or “Dissatisfaction”. Actually, these 3 words- concepts - are part of Dukkha, but they do not fully represent it. So we might as well dump them and use “Dukkha”.

The Buddha spoke of 3 aspects of Dukkha :

• Dukkha dukkha – Dukkha of regular Suffering or Pain
• Viparinama dukkha - the Dukkha caused by Impermanence
• Samkhara dukkha - the Dukkha of Conditionned Existence

Dukkha dukkha is easy to understand by most everyone, and it is properly translated in English by “Pain”, or “Suffering. “ It is the physical pain of a tooth ache, or the mental pain of losing a loved one.

There are different interpretations of the next 2 Dukkhas, and I will stick to one only of them.

Viparinama dukkha is the dukkha due to Impermanence - the fact that things change.

Here is an example : You are working in your yard. The outside temperature is in the 80's but you do not feel hot. You walk inside your home to drink a glass of water. The AC is running and you stay inside a little to enjoy the coolness of the house. You get back outside, and immediately feel uncomfortable because of the heat you experience. This is Viparinama Dukkha. The temperature has not changed outside, and you were not feeling uncomfortable before, but you enjoyed the coolness of the house, so when you went back outside, it felt too hot to you. So Viparinama dukkha describes the suffering or dissatisfaction arising in us when we lose something we were enjoying. 

 

Sankhara Dukkha is said to be deeper and more subtle, but actually I do not think it very complicated if you look at it from a certain perspective, Sankhara Dukkha deals with OUR impermance and the factthat we have to struggle to stay alive.

What are we really ? We are an assemblage of living cells trying to stick together. At the moment of our conception, a sperm and an egg produce a first living cell which later splits and develops into a fetus by incorporating atoms brought to it by its mother. At the time of birth we begin to absorb food and oxygen from the outside world, and grow a bigger body. This growing of an individual being is one of 2 great trends of the universe.

One trend organizes, structures and bring order. The opposite and complimentary trend disorganizes, dissolves and brings chaos.

A powerful description of this is the Taoist Yin-Yang theory. Practically it describes everything is subject to 2 competing and complimentary trends, one promotes the organization of usually inanimate matter into a well defined entity separate from the rest of the universe, one trend tends to the opposite. Matter gets organized into a fawn, the fawn tries to stay alive, but eventually will die, the molecules that composed him separate, and will one day become part of an other creature. Or he could be eaten by a wolf, and part of him will become part of the wolf. There is a constant flow, it is almost a dance. Matter gets organized and disorganized constantly.

In the case of human beings, our evolution as a specie has given us one extremely potent tool to help us staying alive as individuals : our ego, or sense of self. Without this very potent tool, it is unlikely that we would have survived surrounded by the predators that were after us 100,000 years ago. One characteristic of human is their extraordinary will to live and fight to survive amazingly difficult physical or mental situations. This is the job of the ego. (And our problem comes from believing that we ARE this ego - but this is a different story).

So Sankhara Dukkha is the stress due to our constant trying to keep us alive as an entity, trying to keep together all molecules that are composing us while the rest of the universe wants them scattered... We are an assemblage of a great number of elements, we try – against the rest of the universe - to keep them together, and it is a constant effort. This is life itself, this is Sankhara Dukkha.

Actually, when you really look at them, the 3 Dukkha are not that different, they really are interconnected. It all comes back to impermanence and dependent origination. But teaching the 3 kinds will help people better understand the 1st noble Truth.

--
Posted By Frederic Lecut to Under the moon shadow at 11/14/2015 09:33:00 PM

[Frederic Lecut]

When the First Noble Truth is told as “Life is Suffering” most people are unhappy because it sounds very negative to them.  

This is a translation problem.

 The Buddha did not speak English, French or Chinese. He did not use the word “Suffering” but “Dukkha”. Unfortunately, we do not have an accurate word to translate “Dukkha”.

Beside “Suffering” it is sometimes translated as “Stress” or “Dissatisfaction”. Actually, these 3 words- concepts - are part of Dukkha, but they do not fully represent it. So we might as well dump them and use “Dukkha”.

Dukkha

The Buddha spoke of 3 aspects of Dukkha :

• Dukkha dukkha – Dukkha of regular Suffering or Pain
• Viparinama dukkha - the Dukkha caused by Impermanence

• Samkhara dukkha - the Dukkha of Conditioned Existence

Dukkha dukkha is easy to understand by most everyone, and it is properly translated in English by “Pain”, or “Suffering. “ It is the physical pain of a tooth ache, or the mental pain of losing a loved one.

There are different interpretations of the next 2 Dukkhas, and I will stick to one only of them. 
 

Viparinama dukkha is the dukkha due to Impermanence - the fact that things change. 
 

Example : You are working in your yard. The outside temperature is in the 80's but you do not feel hot. You walk inside your home to drink a glass of water. The AC is running and you stay inside a little to enjoy the coolness. You get back outside, and immediately feel uncomfortable because of the heat you experience. 

This is Viparinama Dukkha. The temperature has not changed outside, and you were not feeling uncomfortable before, but you enjoyed the coolness of the house, so when you went back outside, it felt too hot to you. So Viparinama dukkha describes the suffering or dissatisfaction arising in us when we lose something we were enjoying. 

 

Sankhara Dukkha is said to be deeper and more subtle, but actually I do not think it very complicated if you look at it from a certain perspective, Sankhara Dukkha deals with OUR impermance and the fact that we have to struggle to stay alive. 
 

What are we really ? We are an assemblage of living cells trying to stick together. At the moment of our conception, a sperm and an egg produce a first living cell which later splits and develops into a fetus by incorporating atoms brought to it by its mother. At the time of birth we begin to absorb food and oxygen from the outside world, and grow a bigger body. This growing of an individual being is one of 2 great trends of the universe. 
 

One trend organizes, structures and bring order. The opposite and complimentary trend disorganizes, dissolves and brings chaos. 
 

A powerful description of this is the Taoist Yin-Yang theory. Practically it describes everything is subject to 2 competing and complimentary trends, one promotes the organization of usually inanimate matter into a well defined entity separate from the rest of the universe, one trend tends to the opposite. Matter gets organized into a fawn, the fawn tries to stay alive, but eventually will die, the molecules that composed him separate, and will one day become part of an other creature. Or he could be eaten by a wolf, and part of him will become part of the wolf. There is a constant flow, it is almost a dance. Matter gets organized and disorganized constantly.

In the case of human beings, our evolution as a specie has given us one extremely potent tool to help us staying alive as individuals : our ego, or sense of self. Without this very potent tool, it is unlikely that we would have survived surrounded by the predators that were after us 100,000 years ago. One characteristic of human is their extraordinary will to live and fight to survive amazingly difficult physical or mental situations. This is the job of the ego. (And our problem comes from believing that we ARE this ego - but this is a different story).

So Sankhara Dukkha is the stress due to our constant trying to keep us alive as an entity, trying to keep together all molecules that are composing us while the rest of the universe wants them scattered... We are an assemblage of a great number of elements, we try – against the rest of the universe - to keep them together, and it is a constant effort. This is life itself, this is Sankhara Dukkha.

When you really look at them, the 3 Dukkha are not that different, They all comes back to impermanence and dependent origination. But teaching the 3 kinds will help better understand the 1st noble Truth.

--
Posted By Frederic Lecut to Under the moon shadow at 11/20/2015 09:33:00 PM

[Pamela Scott]

Pamela R. Scott
USA 1-334-805-3886
Belgium 32 (0) 487 117 487


---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: "Pamela Scott" <pamel...@juno.com>
To: frederi...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: 3 Dhukkas
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 19:41:20 GMT

OK, I will try to think of some analogies of counter-intuitive and strong systems of belief.  What immediately comes to mind are the Syrian refugees, and the sad position most Americans have towards them.  But, this is not a persuasive argument, as most people are quite happy for the refugees to stay whereever they are, just not here.

 

I suppose belief systems provide structure to people, or to a class or group of people.  So that with the caveman, refugees (people from another camp) would be seen as a threat, to be chased away or eliminated.  However, centuries pass and we have the forming of a new nation, the United States of America, who have as a foundational belief the melting pot, the encouragement of diversity.  Well, this is our goal anyway (diversity), even if we are not always successful at attaining it.

 

We may not be successful because, there is still that cavemen inside of us that says "intruder! kill!"

 

I think before people can learn, they have to have some kind of framework to build upon.  So they draw on the framework provided by their parents or their culture (a positive influence), or maybe they pick a belief system directly opposite from their parents or their culture (in which case, they are still under their parents' influence,

and I call this a negative influence.)

 

Moving their beliefs is actually moving that framework.  Difficult.  You know this: you build buildings; you are an engineer.  If you have to modify a building, what part do you want to modify the least?  Of course, the foundation.

 

Wow, I had to pause after that I wrote that.  Actually, the answer is not as difficult as I thought!  If beliefs = framework, then really you don't have to go as deep as the foundation.  You just have to find a way to get the person to rearrange their framework.  Will they be ready and want to make a change?  Perhaps not.  After all, you are asking them to do Work!

 

I hope my email is not to lengthy and too boring.  As always, you make me think, lol.

 

Have a happy Thanksgiving.

Pamela R. Scott
USA 1-334-805-3886
Belgium 32 (0) 487 117 487


---------- Original Message ----------
From: Frederic Lecut <frederi...@gmail.com>
To: SCOTT Pam <pamel...@juno.com>
Subject: Re: 3 Dhukkas
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 09:14:05 -0600

Well Pam, the heaven and hell story isvery important. Not so much because it is aboit haven and hell, but because it describes how we build them, but also because once you realize that, you can actually start working at removing them.
I am trying to find simple ways to illustrate counter intuitive and unsettling things. Most people don't give a damn for they are sticking so strongly to their systems of belief...

Have a great thanksgiving

Frédéric

On Nov 23, 2015 7:20 AM, "Pamela Scott" <pamel...@juno.com> wrote:

Thank you, good reading.  I also liked the heaven and hell story that you posted previously.  It's one of my favorite.  But when i try to retell the story, only about 1 person in 5 seems interested.  I think the other 4 people are so busy thinking about what they are going to say next, that they don't hear what I am saying.  That's OK.  For those people, I keep the conversation short.


Pamela R. Scott
USA 1-334-805-3886



---------- Original Message ----------
From: Frederic Lecut <frederi...@gmail.com>
To: under-the-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Under the moon shadow] 3 Dhukkas
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 05:33:00 +0000

When the First Noble Truth is told as “Life is Suffering†most people are unhappy because it sounds very negative to them.  

 

This is a translation problem.

 

 

 

 The Buddha did not speak English, French or Chinese. He did not use the word “Suffering†but “Dukkha†. Unfortunately, we do not have an accurate word to translate “Dukkha†.

 

 

Beside “Suffering†it is sometimes translated as “Stress†or “Dissatisfaction†. Actually, these 3 words- concepts - are part of Dukkha, but they do not fully represent it. So we might as well dump them and use “Dukkha†.

 

 

 

Dukkha

The Buddha spoke of 3 aspects of Dukkha :

 

• Dukkha dukkha – Dukkha of regular Suffering or Pain

• Viparinama dukkha - the Dukkha caused by Impermanence
• Samkhara dukkha - the Dukkha of Conditioned Existence

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dukkha dukkha is easy to understand by most everyone, and it is properly translated in English by “Pain†, or “Suffering. “ It is the physical pain of a tooth ache, or the mental pain of losing a loved one.

 

 

 

There are different interpretations of the next 2 Dukkhas, and I will stick to one only of them. 
 

 

 

 

Viparinama dukkha is the dukkha due to Impermanence - the fact that things change. 
 

 

Example : You are working in your yard. The outside temperature is in the 80's but you do not feel hot. You walk inside your home to drink a glass of water. The AC is running and you stay inside a little to enjoy the coolness. You get back outside, and immediately feel uncomfortable because of the heat you experience. 

This is Viparinama Dukkha. The temperature has not changed outside, and you were not feeling uncomfortable before, but you enjoyed the coolness of the house, so when you went back outside, it felt too hot to you. So Viparinama dukkha describes the suffering or dissatisfaction arising in us when we lose something we were enjoying. 

 

 

 

Sankhara Dukkha is said to be deeper and more subtle, but actually I do not think it very complicated if you look at it from a certain perspective, Sankhara Dukkha deals with OUR impermance and the fact that we have to struggle to stay alive. 
 

 

What are we really ? We are an assemblage of living cells trying to stick together. At the moment of our conception, a sperm and an egg produce a first living cell which later splits and develops into a fetus by incorporating atoms brought to it by its mother. At the time of birth we begin to absorb food and oxygen from the outside world, and grow a bigger body. This growing of an individual being is one of 2 great trends of the universe. 
 

 

One trend organizes, structures and bring order. The opposite and complimentary trend disorganizes, dissolves and brings chaos. 
 

 

A powerful description of this is the Taoist Yin-Yang theory. Practically it describes everything is subject to 2 competing and complimentary trends, one promotes the organization of usually inanimate matter into a well defined entity separate from the rest of the universe, one trend tends to the opposite. Matter gets organized into a fawn, the fawn tries to stay alive, but eventually will die, the molecules that composed him separate, and will one day become part of an other creature. Or he could be eaten by a wolf, and part of him will become part of the wolf. There is a constant flow, it is almost a dance. Matter gets organized and disorganized constantly.

 

 

 

In the case of human beings, our evolution as a specie has given us one extremely potent tool to help us staying alive as individuals : our ego, or sense of self. Without this very potent tool, it is unlikely that we would have survived surrounded by the predators that were after us 100,000 years ago. One characteristic of human is their extraordinary will to live and fight to survive amazingly difficult physical or mental situations. This is the job of the ego. (And our problem comes from believing that we ARE this ego - but this is a different story).

 

 

 

So Sankhara Dukkha is the stress due to our constant trying to keep us alive as an entity, trying to keep together all molecules that are composing us while the rest of the universe wants them scattered... We are an assemblage of a great number of elements, we try – against the rest of the universe - to keep them together, and it is a constant effort. This is life itself, this is Sankhara Dukkha.

 

 

 

 

When you really look at them, the 3 Dukkha are not that different, They all comes back to impermanence and dependent origination. But teaching the 3 kinds will help better understand the 1st noble Truth.

 

--
Posted By Frederic Lecut to Under the moon shadowat 11/20/2015 09:33:00 PM

 

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