Censorship at Uncommon Descent

[pyram...@yahoo.com]

This was the message that got me banned without warning:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/quote-of-the-day-19/#comment-578424

"The utter hypocrisy of a website full of Christians who spend every waking moment of every waking day showing the evil of Materialism while accepting its main scientific claim: natural selection causing species mutability.

How do we explain such an egregious contradiction?

Ignorance?

Delusion?

Whatever the case, contrary to their belief about them self, one can rightfully use the fact of acceptance to say these persons are NOT following Christ.

RM (Protestant Evangelical, Old Earth, Paleyan IDist-species immutabilist)"

[pyram...@yahoo.com]

 Barry Arrington is the person in charge over there, and he is a lawyer.

The truth hurts, Barry, the truth hurts.

Ray

[pyram...@yahoo.com]

On Friday, September 4, 2015 at 2:03:11 PM UTC-7, pyram...@yahoo.com wrote:

 FOR THE PUBLIC RECORD

William Dembski, I believe, is site owner over at Uncommon Descent. So it was he who put a lawyer in charge of his microphone and the distribution of knowledge. Dembski, of course, thinks of himself as a Christian as well so the point that infuriated Arrington, seen above, is also, of course, directed at him. That said, why did a person who is allegedly walking with Christ put a lawyer in charge of his website? What did Jesus say about lawyers?

Luke 11:44-52 (KJV):

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them. Then answered one of the lawyers, and said unto him, Master, thus saying thou reproachest us also. And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers. Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them. Truly ye bear witness that ye allow the deeds of your fathers: for they indeed killed them, and ye build their sepulchres. Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute: That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation. Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered."

Note that Jesus specifically indicted lawyers for having "taken away the key of knowledge." In other words lawyers obscure, distort, and prevent the dissemination of truth.

Barry Arrington has banned me, without any warning, for the message seen in the OP. And in the same thread he has threatened to ban an Atheist-Materialist opponent ("RDfish") for alleged various intellectual crimes. Arrington simply isn't smart enough to best his Atheist opponents so he relies on censorship. Where did Arrington obtain the idea that censorship is a legitimate tactic? The irony here is that Arrington is enraged with Atheist-Materialist opponents so he proceeds to "win" the argument by using the unenlightened tactics of his opponents, that is, infamous Atheist-Materialists like Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Castro, for example. These experts in censorship know that the tactic works. One could even say Arrington is conducting the exact same business that "Christian" Federal Judge John E. Jones III practiced when he banned the Dembski version of ID from public education.

William Dembski, Arrington's intellectual boss, is perceived as a Christian yet he appointed a lawyer who uses the same anti-enlightenment tactics of his Materialist opponents. And, as we saw, Jesus specifically condemned lawyers for being anti-knowledge. So Dembski's choice to run his website is the worst possible.

The utter hypocrisy of Arrington opposing Materialism while using the anti-enlightenment concepts of Materialism (censorship) to silence opponents; and the utter hypocrisy of Arrington and Dembski opposing Materialism tooth and nail while accepting its main scientific claim: natural selection causing species mutability.

Like I observed in the message that got me banned: One can use the fact of acceptance (and other facts established in this message) as evidence that neither Dembski nor Arrington have been walking with Christ.

Ray

[Peter Nyikos]

Funny, your "newsgroup" does not work like a standard one in USENET.

Instead of columns of > symbols in the left margin, all I see is

very faint vertical lines.  And they do not show up when I cut and paste elsewhere;

in fact, all the lines of text are flush with the left margin.

On Friday, September 4, 2015 at 5:08:47 PM UTC-4, Ray Martinez wrote:

On Friday, September 4, 2015 at 2:03:11 PM UTC-7, pyram...@yahoo.com wrote:

This was the message that got me banned without warning:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/quote-of-the-day-19/#comment-578424

"The utter hypocrisy of a website full of Christians who spend every waking moment of every waking day showing the evil of Materialism while accepting its main scientific claim: natural selection causing species mutability.

That is not the main scientific claim. The main scientific claim is that the universe 

and everything that takes place in it is ultimately due to blind material forces.

A subsidiary claim along the lines you present is that common descent explains all three 

domains of life --  Archaea, Eubacteria, Eukaryota -- and that UNDIRECTED mutations, 

coupled with natural selection and/or genetic drift, are sufficient to explain the entire process.

Only pusillanimous opponents of creationism restrict "evolution" to such a namby-pamby claim

as the one you allege to be the main scientific claim of materialism.

 

How do we explain such an egregious contradiction?

Ignorance?

Delusion?

Knowledge of the overwhelming scientific evidence for common descent at least of vertebrates.

Although  perhaps not all the Christians in Uncommon Descent subscribe to that degree

of common descent.

 

Whatever the case, contrary to their belief about them self, one can rightfully use the fact of acceptance to say these persons are NOT following Christ.

Christ made no claims about evolution, either pro or con.

 

RM (Protestant Evangelical, Old Earth,

WRONG!!! 

You are "Slightly old Earth," mired in the science of the first half of the 19th century, 

claiming the earth is a mere 100 million or so years old rather than 4.5 billion years old.

You are hardly better than the YECs, who vary considerably about the age of the earth, although

none goes as high as a million years.

Paleyan IDist-species immutabilist

Until you give some reasoned argument for species immutabilism (be it scientific or based on 

authoritative information about the meaning that  the Hebrew word "min" ("kind") had for the 

ancient writers), you have no real cause for complaint about hateful, judgmental rants causing 

you to be banned by a moderated forum like "Uncommon Descent."

You have adamantly refused to post the latter kind of reasoned argument in the Usenet newsgroup

talk.origins, and seem to be heading towards adamant refusal to post any kind of scientific argument

for species immutabilism.

I therefore conclude that you have never posted any reasoned argument for species immutabilism

to Uncommon Descent. Care to prove me wrong?

 

 FOR THE PUBLIC RECORD

William Dembski, I believe, is site owner over at Uncommon Descent. So it was he who put a lawyer 

in charge of his microphone and the distribution of knowledge. Dembski, of course, thinks of himself

as a Christian as well so the point that infuriated Arrington, seen above, is also, of course, directed at him. 

That said, why did a person who is allegedly walking with Christ put a lawyer in charge of his website?

What did Jesus say about lawyers?

About lawyers of his day and age, Christian lawyers belonging to the future.

 

Luke 11:44-52 (KJV):

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!

So much for the numerous Christian scribes of the Dark ages and Middle Ages,

copying the Bible and other books laboriously and lovingly by hand. 

Woe to them all, in The World According to Ray Martinez.

for ye are as graves which appear not, 

and the men that walk over them are not aware of them. Then answered one of the lawyers, 

and said unto him, Master, thus saying thou reproachest us also. And he said, Woe unto 

you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, 

and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.

I have a lawyer friend who is a true Christian, and often defends wrongly accused

people *pro bono*.  You don't know what that expression means, do you?

<snip rest of a quote from almost twenty centuries ago>

Note that Jesus specifically indicted lawyers for having "taken away the key of knowledge." In other words lawyers obscure, distort, and prevent the dissemination of truth.

Barry Arrington has banned me, without any warning, for the message seen in the OP.

Your evidence for this claim is laughable. He did post the next one you sent after that.

Why don't you post the two messages you sent later, the ones that did NOT appear? 

Were they so full of hate that you are afraid to make THEM part of the public record?

Peter Nyikos

Professor, Dept. of Mathematics         -- standard disclaimer--

University of South Carolina

http://people.math.sc.edu/nyikos/

[Ray Martinez]

On Wednesday, September 23, 2015 at 5:10:30 PM UTC-7, Peter Nyikos wrote:

Funny, your "newsgroup" does not work like a standard one in USENET.

Instead of columns of > symbols in the left margin, all I see is

very faint vertical lines.  And they do not show up when I cut and paste elsewhere;

in fact, all the lines of text are flush with the left margin.

I don't know why?

 

On Friday, September 4, 2015 at 5:08:47 PM UTC-4, Ray Martinez wrote:

 

Note about Peter Nyikos: This person is a university mathematics professor, staunch defender of evolutionary theory, and a leading advocate of origin of life on earth theory Directed Panspermia.  

 

On Friday, September 4, 2015 at 2:03:11 PM UTC-7, pyram...@yahoo.com wrote:

This was the message that got me banned without warning:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/quote-of-the-day-19/#comment-578424

"The utter hypocrisy of a website full of Christians who spend every waking moment of every waking day showing the evil of Materialism while accepting its main scientific claim: natural selection causing species mutability.

That is not the main scientific claim. The main scientific claim is that the universe 

and everything that takes place in it is ultimately due to blind material forces.

The main scientific claim of Materialism in biology (our topic) is Darwin's main cause-and-effect claim: fully material natural selection causing species mutability.  

 

A subsidiary claim along the lines you present is that common descent explains all three 

domains of life --  Archaea, Eubacteria, Eukaryota -- and that UNDIRECTED mutations, 

coupled with natural selection and/or genetic drift, are sufficient to explain the entire process.

Remove "subsidiary" and I could live with this statement.

 

Only pusillanimous opponents of creationism restrict "evolution" to such a namby-pamby claim

as the one you allege to be the main scientific claim of materialism.

Before the rise of Darwinism (1859-1872) science accepted supernatural or immaterial causation. So the main scientific claim of Materialism is Darwin's proposal of natural selection causing species mutability.

 

 

How do we explain such an egregious contradiction?

Ignorance?

Delusion?

Knowledge of the overwhelming scientific evidence for common descent at least of vertebrates.

Although  perhaps not all the Christians in Uncommon Descent subscribe to that degree

of common descent.

 

 

I was talking about how persons at Uncommon Descent could argue against Materialism while accepting natural selection causing species mutability? In this context I wrote...."Ignorance?....Delusion?..."

 

 

Whatever the case, contrary to their belief about them self, one can rightfully use the fact of acceptance to say these persons are NOT following Christ.

Christ made no claims about evolution, either pro or con.

Comment presupposes Christ neutral or agnostic concerning evolution; the same is manifestly preposterous. The Bible is clear: Christ is the Logos of God, was with God "In the beginning" (John 1; Genesis 1); all things were made through Him, by Him, and for Him (Colossians 1). These claims presuppose Genesis supernatural causation and the creation concepts. So to say Christ has no opinion about non-supernatural causation (evolution) and the elimination of His Father from biological production, as Peter Nyikos would suggest is, like I said, preposterous. Christ was and is a Creationist, the Son of the Creator. 

 

 

RM (Protestant Evangelical, Old Earth,

WRONG!!! 

You are "Slightly old Earth," mired in the science of the first half of the 19th century, 

claiming the earth is a mere 100 million or so years old rather than 4.5 billion years old.

You are hardly better than the YECs, who vary considerably about the age of the earth, although

none goes as high as a million years.

Paleyan IDist-species immutabilist

Until you give some reasoned argument for species immutabilism (be it scientific or based on 

authoritative information about the meaning that  the Hebrew word "min" ("kind") had for the 

ancient writers), you have no real cause for complaint about hateful, judgmental rants causing 

you to be banned by a moderated forum like "Uncommon Descent."

I was banned for the message seen in the Opening Post. The next day none of my messages would post. So the only reasonable conclusion is that I am banned for the message indicated.

 

You have adamantly refused to post the latter kind of reasoned argument in the Usenet newsgroup

talk.origins, and seem to be heading towards adamant refusal to post any kind of scientific argument

for species immutabilism.

Not true. My arguments have mostly been ignored or misrepresented.

 

I therefore conclude that you have never posted any reasoned argument for species immutabilism

to Uncommon Descent. Care to prove me wrong?

Since I was banned I cannot contribute at Uncommon Descent. And I only posted there infrequently, unlike Talk.Origins. 

 

 

 FOR THE PUBLIC RECORD

William Dembski, I believe, is site owner over at Uncommon Descent. So it was he who put a lawyer 

in charge of his microphone and the distribution of knowledge. Dembski, of course, thinks of himself

as a Christian as well so the point that infuriated Arrington, seen above, is also, of course, directed at him. 

That said, why did a person who is allegedly walking with Christ put a lawyer in charge of his website?

What did Jesus say about lawyers?

About lawyers of his day and age, Christian lawyers belonging to the future.

Here we see a good example of secular oriented Bible interpretation: words of Christ do not have eternal meaning and application. If true, salvation was only for persons living in the first century!

 

Luke 11:44-52 (KJV):

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!

So much for the numerous Christian scribes of the Dark ages and Middle Ages,

copying the Bible and other books laboriously and lovingly by hand. 

Woe to them all, in The World According to Ray Martinez.

for ye are as graves which appear not, 

and the men that walk over them are not aware of them. Then answered one of the lawyers, 

and said unto him, Master, thus saying thou reproachest us also. And he said, Woe unto 

you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, 

and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.

I have a lawyer friend who is a true Christian, and often defends wrongly accused

people *pro bono*.  You don't know what that expression means, do you?

<snip rest of a quote from almost twenty centuries ago>

Note that Jesus specifically indicted lawyers for having "taken away the key of knowledge." In other words lawyers obscure, distort, and prevent the dissemination of truth.

Barry Arrington has banned me, without any warning, for the message seen in the OP.

Your evidence for this claim is laughable. He did post the next one you sent after that.

Automation posted that post. Later in the day or the next day (I don't know which) when Arrington read my message he banned me. Peter's comment assumes Arrington personally approves each post, which is ridiculous!

 

Why don't you post the two messages you sent later, the ones that did NOT appear? 

Were they so full of hate that you are afraid to make THEM part of the public record?

Peter Nyikos

Professor, Dept. of Mathematics         -- standard disclaimer--

University of South Carolina

http://people.math.sc.edu/nyikos/

 

Since I didn't know I was banned until these messages didn't post, I didn't save them. And your belief that these messages contained illegitimate hate is an unprovable accusation. Yet one could say such an accusation, on your part, indicates much hate.

 

Ray

 

[Peter Nyikos]

On Thursday, October 1, 2015 at 5:18:58 PM UTC-4, Ray Martinez wrote:

On Wednesday, September 23, 2015 at 5:10:30 PM UTC-7, Peter Nyikos wrote:

Funny, your "newsgroup" does not work like a standard one in USENET.

Instead of columns of > symbols in the left margin, all I see is

very faint vertical lines.  And they do not show up when I cut and paste elsewhere;

in fact, all the lines of text are flush with the left margin.

I don't know why?

You acted ten days ago in talk.origins  as though I were completely unaware that your group
has virtually the same format as talk.origins:



I'd say more, but I'm just testing to see whether this gets deleted like several other replies to you have been.
You profess ignorance about why.

Peter Nyikos