Bowden Tube Slipping Through Clamp at Hot End?

754 views
Skip to first unread message

Coofer Cat

unread,
Jun 17, 2012, 5:13:24 PM6/17/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com
Hey all,

I've been having a problem with my bowden tube slipping through the clamp at the hot end. This is a recent problem, and has caused no end of blockages and slipped filament (and lots of swearing from me too).

For the sake of my wife's ears, I took the long screws out and had a look - sure enough, the tube was only protruding a couple of mm, not the 8mm I'd set to to a week or two ago. Some further investigation shows that indeed the tube does slip through the fully latched clamp - certainly with long and constant pressure (as with printing) I'm sure the tube can easily slip out. I took the tube out of the clamp entirely, and sure enough, the end of it is a bit "distressed". It's got definite indents where the clamp pressure has been, and I guess those indents just don't hold it any more.

What options do I have? I'd really rather not thread the end of the tube and make a new PEEK or whatever. I guess I could cut a few mm off the end of the tube and re-insert, but presumably I'll have the same problem again sometime soon. Also, I guess the clamp might have worn a bit, or whatever, so I'd have the problem again because of that. What I'd like to do is to thicken up the tube a little bit - but I don't suppose that's really possible :-( Thingiverse has this: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:11864, although I'm going to struggle to print it (but may be able to get it out if I raise the temperature, maybe?).

So what other options are there for stopping the tube slipping in the clamp?

...Ralph

Zip Zap

unread,
Jun 17, 2012, 9:23:44 PM6/17/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com
Never mind having it in exactly 8mm.  Just push it in as far as it can go to where it pushes against the internal walls of the PEEK where the hot brass tube starts.  That type of push pressure against the PEEK will in turn cause an upward pressure against the tube clamp that acts like a lock washer between the PEEK and the clamp.  The tube shouldn't slip as easily afterwards.


From: Coofer Cat <ra...@coofercat.com>
To: ulti...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 2:13 PM
Subject: Bowden Tube Slipping Through Clamp at Hot End?

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ultimaker" group.
 
There are also forums, which are the official gathering place for Ultimaker operators:
http://forum.ultimaker.com/
 
If you still want to post to this group, send email to ulti...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
ultimaker+...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/ultimaker?hl=en
 
For information about the Ultimaker, visit: http://Ultimaker.com


Coofer Cat

unread,
Jun 18, 2012, 2:56:19 AM6/18/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com, Zip Zap
Thanks for that Zipzap.

My problem seems to be that the tube just won't stay where I put it. I pushed it in as closely to the PEEK as I could, and then tried a print - within 10 minutes extrusion had stopped and the filament was stripped. I pulled on the filament, but it was completely stuck in place (couldn't push it or pull it). I then undid the clamp and pulled the tube out - The filament had formed a great big lump, which was pretty hard (even though the nozzle was now heated to 250). The lump is about 6mm round, so looks about the size of the hole in the PEEK. From this I assume the PLA had squeezed in between the tube and the PEEK and pushed the tube upwards, making a space which the lump had formed in.

I think the printable bowden clamp will solve this (or at least mitigate it for a while). My problem is going to be printing it though - as I don't seem to be able to run for more than a few minutes at the moment. I'll try turning up the temperature a bit and see if I can print some of the small parts of the clamp.

Since I'm now after a temporary solution, I'm trying something unauthodox. I've roughed up the end of the tube a little bit with some sandpaper. I'm now painting on some thin coats of superglue onto the tube and letting each layer dry fully. The idea is that this will add the 0.1mm (or whatever) and hopefully a rough surface so that the clamp can grip the tube better. I have no idea if this will work, or if the glue will just flake off the tube, or indeed if the heat will make the superglue turn to noxious fumes, but with a bit of luck it'll keep the printing going long enough to print the longer term solution ;-)

That said, any other ideas would be appreciated!

Zip Zap

unread,
Jun 18, 2012, 5:01:37 AM6/18/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com
Are you using the version 2 knurled bolt?  That thing is the root of all the stripping and "clogging".  Either hack in the Makerbot MK5/6 drive gear(which I've done) or use Scott Mayson's design that uses the same drive gear.  The UM version 3 bolt might be good also.  I just don't have experience with it.  That blob of plastic you see is normal.  The problem is that your not able to push it through because the teeth of your knurled bolt has balded and has no more biting force.  So change that first before anything else.  Maybe, in the mean time you can blast some air to the teeth of the bolt to clean it or even spray an alcohol type solution to see if you can give it a second life.   



Cc: Zip Zap <zza...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 11:56 PM
Subject: Re: Bowden Tube Slipping Through Clamp at Hot End?

Leo C.

unread,
Jun 18, 2012, 5:20:32 AM6/18/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com
I've had the same problem.
Things that did not work:
-Cut the bowden 8mm
-Change the lower piece of wood of the print head
-Trying to increase the pressure of the clamp by adding tape between it and the wood

Solution found (been printing over 200m of PLA with it)
-Make a 1.5mm cut in the bowden (the walls of the bowden itself are 3mm) 8mm away from the end, add an e-clip of 5mm.
-I've printed http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:11864 for security but didn't installed it yet.

Hope this helps

Jelle Boomstra

unread,
Jun 18, 2012, 5:43:04 AM6/18/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com
On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Zip Zap <zza...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Are you using the version 2 knurled bolt?  That thing is the root of all the stripping and "clogging".

No it is not! The problem is as the OP describes is exactly the problem, the stripped bolt is secondary and the result of an obstruction in the feeding tube.

I know Martijn is busy with an upgrade kit to tackle this problem, it is basically one extra PFTE part that is pressed against the peek and will hold the PFA tube. The white clamp should move to the top and will only hold the extrusion force, not the extrusion force + static force to the PEEK.
The best solution IMHO is to tap a thread to your bowden, but if you cannot make a new PEEK part, you'll need to tap an M6 into it, and that is a tricky problem. Either 15 mins on the lathe, or 2 hours to make a tapering + threading tool.

Joergen Geerds

unread,
Jun 18, 2012, 9:38:16 AM6/18/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com
I totally agree with jelle, the v2 bolt is not causing the issue (at all), since the construction of the v3 bolt is only marginally better. Grinding and popping Bowden are caused by a number of other things, but not the bolt. Tight thumb screw and distorted filament, wrong peek/Bowden interface, and low (sometimes high) temp are the real causes.

Brian Queen

unread,
Jun 18, 2012, 4:17:14 PM6/18/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com

I had the same problem. It drove me crazy for days. I’d only get an hour of printing before the bowden tube popped out again. I kept cutting the tube shorter but eventually it became too tight when the head went to its home position. I printed the Thingiverse clamp version 2 by Owen and had the same problem. My solution was to discard Owen's tightening cone and add a 15mm length of adhesive lined heat shrink tubing over the Bowden tube just below Owen’s cap. The hard part was melting it in just the right spot so that when the cap was tightened the Bowden tube stuck out the prescribed 8mm. The first time I used a shorter length of adhesive lined heat shrink tubing, about 5mm, it worked but eventually it released from the Bowden tube. The 15mm length has been working great ever since.

Taylor Alexander

unread,
Jun 18, 2012, 5:11:45 PM6/18/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com
One thing I noticed with mine was that after some slipping, the little metal teeth in the bowden clamp got clogged with plastic, reducing the effectiveness of the teeth. I'd pull out that clip and use a small pin or pointy thing to clean out the backside of the teeth.

Ultimately though, I never solved the problem, and have modified my Ultimaker so that It no longer uses those clips. At Joergen's suggestion, I made a PEEK part with M7 threads instead of the straight section, and threaded the bowden tube. I sent drawings and a few samples of the parts to Ultimaker, and when they get them they can evaluate them and I will see about making some for the community.

On my cold end, I've replaced the plastic clip with a brass fitting, which is much stronger, and modified my mount to support that (but I am not using the stock extruder). I still need to take some pictures of that and post it to the community. It works extremely well though. Between the bowden mods and my new extruder, I never ever ever have bowden slipping or filament stripping issues.

On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 1:17 PM, Brian Queen <paperma...@gmail.com> wrote:

I had the same problem. It drove me crazy for days. I’d only get an hour of printing before the bowden tube popped out again. I kept cutting the tube shorter but eventually it became too tight when the head went to its home position. I printed the Thingiverse clamp version 2 by Owen and had the same problem. My solution was to discard Owen's tightening cone and add a 15mm length of adhesive lined heat shrink tubing over the Bowden tube just below Owen’s cap. The hard part was melting it in just the right spot so that when the cap was tightened the Bowden tube stuck out the prescribed 8mm. The first time I used a shorter length of adhesive lined heat shrink tubing, about 5mm, it worked but eventually it released from the Bowden tube. The 15mm length has been working great ever since.

--

Coofer Cat

unread,
Jun 19, 2012, 10:12:47 AM6/19/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com
Thanks everyone for the ideas. I'm pleased to say I've made a bit of progress, although have further to go until it's 'safe'.

My temporary bodge using some superglue to thicken up the end of the tube seems to work. I managed to print the test cap and the cone from Owen's object. After those were done, my own stupidity meant that I tried to extrude into about 180C, which made the hot end creak quite a lot (although looked like it was okay still). On the next print though, the tube popped out of the clamp entirely. I refreshed the glue layers and then managed to get the cap printed. It still seems to be okay, so I'll try the main riser (a 2+ hour print) tomorrow when I get home.

I'll definitely take a look at the clamp too - I didn't realise it had teeth, but all this in/out stuff will probably be all over them by now, so I'll clean them off and put it all back together. I like the idea of the heatshrink too - that sounds like another way to hold the tube in more places, and so each "holder" only has to do a fraction of the work.

Short term, I'll clean things up, maybe shave a few mm off the tube and use Owen's clamp. I'll look into the adhesive heatshrink too (that seems like a neat "belts and braces" option). From the comments though, it looks like threading the tube and making a new PEEK is the best long-term solution. I don't have an easy way to make a new PEEK, so will need to find a pre-made one. I can probably get the requisite taps to thread the tube though, I guess. It's still not a "normal toolbox" sort of job, but I'll bear it in mind.

Daid

unread,
Jun 19, 2012, 2:13:36 PM6/19/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com
Indeed, it's not the V2 bolt, as my 2nd extruder with a V3 bolt had this problem at the start.

It's the clamps. The white clamps simply don't seem equal, or fit for the job I think. I solved the issue on my machine by adding 2 clamps on each tube (at the top and bottom of the hotend assembly)

Also, I think it would help if you rotate the bowden tube a few times after you clipped it, this will make the white clip teeth dig into the tube, adding a grove where it holds the tube better. (This might be why my primary tube never had problems)

Joergen Geerds

unread,
Jun 19, 2012, 6:20:03 PM6/19/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com
On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:12:47 AM UTC-4, Coofer Cat wrote:
Short term, I'll clean things up, maybe shave a few mm off the tube and use Owen's clamp. I'll look into the adhesive heatshrink too (that seems like a neat "belts and braces" option). From the comments though, it looks like threading the tube and making a new PEEK is the best long-term solution. I don't have an easy way to make a new PEEK, so will need to find a pre-made one. I can probably get the requisite taps to thread the tube though, I guess. It's still not a "normal toolbox" sort of job, but I'll bear it in mind.

I would suggest to ask taylor if he can sell you a new M7 threaded PEEK part. it pretty much solves all your issues. 

Taylor Alexander

unread,
Jun 19, 2012, 6:40:45 PM6/19/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com
:)

Yeah, I'm going to try to make a few in the next week or two that I can send out to people. I've got two feet of PEEK just sitting here, just need to find the time.

I guess anyone that wants one, put your name down here, and that will encourage me to actually do it. Plus its finally been tested enough to know it works, so its about time I start making them.

--

Joergen Geerds

unread,
Jun 19, 2012, 8:53:05 PM6/19/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com
On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 6:40:45 PM UTC-4, Taylor wrote:
Yeah, I'm going to try to make a few in the next week or two that I can send out to people. I've got two feet of PEEK just sitting here, just need to find the time.
I guess anyone that wants one, put your name down here, and that will encourage me to actually do it. Plus its finally been tested enough to know it works, so its about time I start making them.

it works like a charm!
if you order a PEEK part from taylor, keep in mind PEEK isn't cheap, and CNC machine time doesn't come for free. 

Taylor Alexander

unread,
Jun 19, 2012, 9:01:52 PM6/19/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com
Hah, yeah. I'll probably price them at like $30 or so, which I know is a bit high, but making small parts like this isn't what I do normally. We'll see. Mostly I just don't have the time, but I want to help out the community if I can!

--

Daid

unread,
Jun 20, 2012, 1:01:53 AM6/20/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com
Fine price, if you see that Ultimaker asks 14 euro for the normal part. And they need to produce them anyhow. Small quantities are expensive.

But I don't think a new peek part is the cheapest/easiest/best solution. Like I pointed out a few times already, I added 2 clips on my bowden tubes, one at the top, one at the bottom. These clips only need to carry half the load, and thus no longer slip. These clips should come cheap, but I don't know where you can order them from (mine came from Ultimaking)


On Wednesday, June 20, 2012 3:01:52 AM UTC+2, Taylor wrote:
Hah, yeah. I'll probably price them at like $30 or so, which I know is a bit high, but making small parts like this isn't what I do normally. We'll see. Mostly I just don't have the time, but I want to help out the community if I can!

On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 5:53 PM, Joergen Geerds <jge...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 6:40:45 PM UTC-4, Taylor wrote:
Yeah, I'm going to try to make a few in the next week or two that I can send out to people. I've got two feet of PEEK just sitting here, just need to find the time.
I guess anyone that wants one, put your name down here, and that will encourage me to actually do it. Plus its finally been tested enough to know it works, so its about time I start making them.

it works like a charm!
if you order a PEEK part from taylor, keep in mind PEEK isn't cheap, and CNC machine time doesn't come for free. 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ultimaker" group.
 
There are also forums, which are the official gathering place for Ultimaker operators:
http://forum.ultimaker.com/
 
If you still want to post to this group, send email to ulti...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

Jelle Boomstra

unread,
Jun 20, 2012, 3:01:14 AM6/20/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com
I have a few M12/M6 threaded PEEK parts I can part with. The trouble then becomes how to get an M6 thread on a 1/4" tube.

Joergen Geerds

unread,
Jun 20, 2012, 8:59:42 AM6/20/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com
On Wednesday, June 20, 2012 3:01:14 AM UTC-4, Jelle Boomstra wrote:
I have a few M12/M6 threaded PEEK parts I can part with. The trouble then becomes how to get an M6 thread on a 1/4" tube.

Taylor and I had experimented with this, and sent PEEK and PTFE prototypes to the UM headquarter (not sure if they ever arrived). the prototypes have a M7 on top, and a M6 on the bottom. and you are right, threading the bowden with M6 is incredible difficult, M7 on the other hand is so easy, you can do it by hand with a hex die, this is why we are so strongly recommending this as a permanent fix for the problem.

as a side note, the same part made out of PTFE worked great for about 2 weeks, printing ABS at 250C (which is probably 235-240C in reality). when I had to increase the temp to 255-260C (different ABS), the PTFE had a catastrophic failure, and the brass tube came out of the PTFE. I guess they are quite correct that PTFE is good for up to 250C for load-bearing purposes. If a user is going to print only PLA, a PTFE part would work great, but the same part made from PEEK is more universally usable.

Joergen Geerds

unread,
Jun 20, 2012, 9:01:37 AM6/20/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com
On Wednesday, June 20, 2012 3:01:14 AM UTC-4, Jelle Boomstra wrote:
I have a few M12/M6 threaded PEEK parts I can part with. The trouble then becomes how to get an M6 thread on a 1/4" tube.
it should be pretty easy to rework the parts, and put a M7 thread into the upper part.

Taylor Alexander

unread,
Jun 20, 2012, 3:10:23 PM6/20/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com
Yeah, M6x1 turns into M7x1 easily - they're the same pitch, so you can just run a tap through to open it up.

I was worried the M7 threads would strip in the bowden (because the OD is undersized), but they've been rock solid. I've got my upgraded extruder with lots of pushing power and its working out great. I've finally been able to experiment with printing at lower temps without just popping the bowden or instantly stripping filament.

I've got a few 3D printer parts I need to machine soon (I've got a solid copper nozzle design I'm playing with) so I'll try to do that and some PEEK parts soon.

Daid, I can't believe I didn't think of using a second clip on top! Thats definitely a good idea. There's two places you can get an extra clip: the second extruder hole, since most people don't have dual extruders, or at hardware stores like Home Depot (in the US). They sell those quick fit couplings and they have clips on them. I think they might even sell the clips by themselves, but the couplings are good enough. If that's really all that's needed, that's great!

--

Daid

unread,
Jun 20, 2012, 3:52:17 PM6/20/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com
Don't thank me, I actually stole the idea from Paul. It does work great, zero problems so far.

Dave Head

unread,
Jun 20, 2012, 3:56:17 PM6/20/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com

Just going to vent for a sec dam stupid thing ahh.

That's about it.

Yes it can be popped out  I did it just a min ago.

I think I need a new hot end

Bull

unread,
Jun 21, 2012, 12:06:57 AM6/21/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com
A fix that's working like a champ for me is to tighten the clip(s) with a ziptie.  The nice thing about this fix is that it doesn't require any printing.  I posted this to the forum a while back and it seems to work well for others, FWIW



Coofer Cat

unread,
Jun 21, 2012, 8:55:53 AM6/21/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com
Oooh, using a zip tie. I like it - I can't imagine why I didn't think of it before (seeing as half my house is tied together in one for or another ;-)

My "superglue tube refreshing" seems to do a good job, albeit a temporary one. I managed to print the remaining parts for Owen's clamp object, but managed to sheer it while tightening the nut onto it. I've resliced with 80% infill (up from 50%) so I'll give it another try and see how it goes.

Does anyone have a link to anyone selling the clips? I'd like to see if I can find a UK supplier, but have no idea what to search for (or indeed ask for in hardware stores!).

So to summarise:

- Superglue can be used to temporarily patch the cable long enough to print one's self out of trouble ;-)
- Adhesive heatshrink tubing can be used to make a "second clip"
- Owen's clamp object has worked for some people, but some have had problems with it.
- A zip/cable tie can be used to lift the clamp into it's locking position, and also to squeeze it slightly, giving it a tight grip on the tube
- Multiple clips reduce the work any one of them has to do
- A threaded tube + PEEK seems to perform well, although getting the PEEK part and tube tapped does take some effort (FWIW, this sounds like the most "industrialised" solution to me, so possibly the best for new Ultimakers, with/without a second clip added).

Plenty of options there - that's great - thanks!

PS. If anyone has an M7 PEEK they can send to the UK - give me a shout at ralph / coofercat dotcom

futurejames

unread,
Jun 22, 2012, 11:34:13 PM6/22/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com
I would definitely purchase one of those from you.

Taylor Alexander

unread,
Jun 23, 2012, 1:29:28 AM6/23/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com

Does anyone have a link to anyone selling the clips? I'd like to see if I can find a UK supplier, but have no idea what to search for (or indeed ask for in hardware stores!).

 
So to summarise:

- Superglue can be used to temporarily patch the cable long enough to print one's self out of trouble ;-)
- Adhesive heatshrink tubing can be used to make a "second clip"
- Owen's clamp object has worked for some people, but some have had problems with it.
- A zip/cable tie can be used to lift the clamp into it's locking position, and also to squeeze it slightly, giving it a tight grip on the tube
- Multiple clips reduce the work any one of them has to do
- A threaded tube + PEEK seems to perform well, although getting the PEEK part and tube tapped does take some effort (FWIW, this sounds like the most "industrialised" solution to me, so possibly the best for new Ultimakers, with/without a second clip added).

Plenty of options there - that's great - thanks!

PS. If anyone has an M7 PEEK they can send to the UK - give me a shout at ralph / coofercat dotcom

Coofer Cat

unread,
Jun 23, 2012, 11:30:05 AM6/23/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com
Thanks for the link - I'll see what I can find in the UK.

After some further issues, I've now cut a couple of mm off the bowden, added the "jamming hack" (http://wiki.ultimaker.com/Jamming#Hack_the_bowden_tube_to_prevent_jamming) and cable-tied my tube into it's clamp after carefully reinserting the bowden into the peek etc. I'm currently printing Owen's clamp to replace the one I broke the other day (so far, so good). You might say I'm going for "belts and braces" on this ;-)

This has been an interesting, if frustrating experience. I guess the thing that I've realised most is that there are so many ways to solve the same problem. Thanks again to everyone for their help, and please do let me know if you've got some threaded PEEK I can buy from you.

Now hopefully I can get back to printing the stuff I wanted before all this started!

John Keezer

unread,
Jun 23, 2012, 2:11:28 PM6/23/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com

I solved this problem when I first received my Ultimaker:



Nobody seemed to care at the time, but it's been a permanent solution for my machine.


On Sunday, June 17, 2012 2:13:24 PM UTC-7, Coofer Cat wrote:
Hey all,

I've been having a problem with my bowden tube slipping through the clamp at the hot end. This is a recent problem, and has caused no end of blockages and slipped filament (and lots of swearing from me too).

For the sake of my wife's ears, I took the long screws out and had a look - sure enough, the tube was only protruding a couple of mm, not the 8mm I'd set to to a week or two ago. Some further investigation shows that indeed the tube does slip through the fully latched clamp - certainly with long and constant pressure (as with printing) I'm sure the tube can easily slip out. I took the tube out of the clamp entirely, and sure enough, the end of it is a bit "distressed". It's got definite indents where the clamp pressure has been, and I guess those indents just don't hold it any more.

What options do I have? I'd really rather not thread the end of the tube and make a new PEEK or whatever. I guess I could cut a few mm off the end of the tube and re-insert, but presumably I'll have the same problem again sometime soon. Also, I guess the clamp might have worn a bit, or whatever, so I'd have the problem again because of that. What I'd like to do is to thicken up the tube a little bit - but I don't suppose that's really possible :-( Thingiverse has this: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:11864, although I'm going to struggle to print it (but may be able to get it out if I raise the temperature, maybe?).

So what other options are there for stopping the tube slipping in the clamp?

...Ralph

Brian Queen

unread,
Jun 25, 2012, 9:16:09 AM6/25/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com

I tried this and it only worked for a couple of hours, then we tried something else. We used a 3/16” e-clip. You have to carve a deeper slot in the Bowden tube but it worked. Also instead of placing the clip close to the end of the tube we placed it under Owen’s cap (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:11864). No need to use the tightening cone. Rather than trying to guess the exact length between the end of the Bowden tube and the e-clip we made that length longer than needed, assembled the head, measured the excess and then trimmed off the appropriate amount. We left enough extra so that the threading on the cap doesn't bottom out, so that there’s always pressure from the cap on the e-clip. 

Matt

unread,
Jun 25, 2012, 11:17:47 AM6/25/12
to Ultimaker
Have you guys considered using glass-mica ceramics? This material has
the advantage of being machinable by standard carbide tooling and not
requiring curing in a kiln prior to use. It has a working temperature
up to ~500 degrees C. Granted, it is more expensive than PEEK but
should be more duable and not operating so close to the limit of its
capabilities. I've considered picking up a 3" length of 5/8" diameter
rod to use to build Scott Mason's hot end replacement (http://
www.thingiverse.com/thing:20535). Perhaps my information in bad but
PEEK seems to have a lower specified working temperature than PTFE
(according to McMaster Carr website) Perhaps the issue is just that
PTFE becomes too soft too quickly leading to mechanical failure at 250
degrees? McMaster lists the max working temperature of PEEK at 250
degrees C which is very close to what we're extruding at. However the
high temperature PTFE rod is listed as having a maximum working
temperature of 260 degrees C. Granted, not much higher than PEEK, but
slightly.

-Matt

Jelle Boomstra

unread,
Jun 25, 2012, 2:35:14 PM6/25/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com
we say PEEK, but it is PEEK filled with 50% glass fiber.

Christoph Patsch

unread,
Jun 30, 2012, 3:22:39 AM6/30/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com
Am Mittwoch, 20. Juni 2012 00:40:45 UTC+2 schrieb Taylor:
I guess anyone that wants one, put your name down here, and that will encourage me to actually do it. Plus its finally been tested enough to know it works, so its about time I start making them.

This part absolutely makes sense to me - I want one, please!

Thanks a lot, cheers!
--
Christoph

thevoltmaster

unread,
Jun 30, 2012, 9:04:45 AM6/30/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com
Sign me up! I'd like one as well! 

-Michael


Christoph Patsch

unread,
Jul 1, 2012, 4:59:25 PM7/1/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com
Maybe this also might be an interesting proposal to fix Bowden tube issues: http://forum.ultimaker.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1078

It is an easy solution based on the idea of threading the tube as it is also discussed here, but no new parts are needed.
--
Christoph

Joergen Geerds

unread,
Jul 1, 2012, 5:46:45 PM7/1/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com
On Sunday, July 1, 2012 4:59:25 PM UTC-4, Christoph Patsch wrote:
Maybe this also might be an interesting proposal to fix Bowden tube issues: http://forum.ultimaker.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1078

It is an easy solution based on the idea of threading the tube as it is also discussed here, but no new parts are needed.

interesting: yes: feasible? maybe not, since you are weakening the system severely. 

Coofer Cat

unread,
Jul 2, 2012, 2:57:44 AM7/2/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com
I'd be inclined to agree that shaving a bit off the PEEK and screwing the bowden to the brass is going to weaken the structure. However, it makes me wonder if it's possible to simply make an insert for the PEEK? I'm thinking that you get a piece of PEEK milled to make a collar around a threaded bowden. You then drill out enough space to fit this collar into the top of the peek. There's actually no need to have the collar and the peek physically attached, because having the collar would prevent the tube from slipping upwards because the collar won't fit through the hole in the wooden base of the head.

Ultimately, this is just a variation of the "make a new peek" idea, but it may save needing an entirely new peek part. Indeed, it may be possible to make the collar out of metal, although that may take you right back to the same problem as screwing onto the brass. Either way, it's a lot less new material to make, which could make it a cheap upgrade option. Of course, I haven't tested it, so it may be an expensive upgrade option too ;-)

In my meagre opinion, it seems like a threaded bowden + threaded peek is the "ultimate" solution. It adds a bit to the manufacturing of the head, but it's a "mechanisable" process, so could (theoretically) be part of the Ultimaker manufacturing process. Until that happens, it'll have to be an after-market option. Other options like e-clips or two of the white plastic clips seem to make a good second choice though. Third and fourth choices seem to be less attractive by quite a distance, so probably only useful if you're in a hurry ;-)

Joergen Geerds

unread,
Jul 2, 2012, 8:52:59 AM7/2/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com
On Monday, July 2, 2012 2:57:44 AM UTC-4, Coofer Cat wrote:
In my meagre opinion, it seems like a threaded bowden + threaded peek is the "ultimate" solution. It adds a bit to the manufacturing of the head, but it's a "mechanisable" process, so could (theoretically) be part of the Ultimaker manufacturing process. Until that happens, it'll have to be an after-market option. Other options like e-clips or two of the white plastic clips seem to make a good second choice though. Third and fourth choices seem to be less attractive by quite a distance, so probably only useful if you're in a hurry ;-)

I personally like the e-clip version as an emergency fix... a slightly more elaborate version of the same idea would be a M7 nut threaded onto the bowden under the wood (if space allows). 

Bradley

unread,
Jul 2, 2012, 9:28:43 AM7/2/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com


On Monday, July 2, 2012 2:57:44 AM UTC-4, Coofer Cat wrote:
In my meagre opinion, it seems like a threaded bowden + threaded peek is the "ultimate" solution. It adds a bit to the manufacturing of the head, but it's a "mechanisable" process, so could (theoretically) be part of the Ultimaker manufacturing process. Until that happens, it'll have to be an after-market option. Other options like e-clips or two of the white plastic clips seem to make a good second choice though. Third and fourth choices seem to be less attractive by quite a distance, so probably only useful if you're in a hurry ;-)


I've had my bowden threaded into the existing PEEK connector for many months.    Since then, I have never had an issue with the bowden, even after over a hundred hours of printing.    Placing threads on the bowden is cheap and easy -- it would be a simple solution for the UM folks to implement, should they desire to do so.


Frans

unread,
Jul 2, 2012, 2:21:30 PM7/2/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com
I wanted to try this solution on a new Bowden; my first had become too short after a couple of push-outs and refixing after shortening.
The new one came last week. It has a smaller wall thickness and larger ID. M6 threading is no longer possible. Carefull M7 threading will just do, as in the peek part.
 
 

Op maandag 2 juli 2012 15:28:43 UTC+2 schreef Bradley het volgende:

Rob Dobson

unread,
Aug 5, 2012, 4:59:49 AM8/5/12
to ulti...@googlegroups.com
Hi Taylor

I'd really like to buy one of those threaded PEEK parts, I don't have the facilities to turn one myself and I'd love to get this problem solved so I can get back to actually printing something rather than constantly trying to fix my ultimaker. Please let me know if it might be a possibility.

Thanks Rob


On Wednesday, 20 June 2012 02:01:52 UTC+1, Taylor wrote:
Hah, yeah. I'll probably price them at like $30 or so, which I know is a bit high, but making small parts like this isn't what I do normally. We'll see. Mostly I just don't have the time, but I want to help out the community if I can!

On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 5:53 PM, Joergen Geerds wrote:
On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 6:40:45 PM UTC-4, Taylor wrote:
Yeah, I'm going to try to make a few in the next week or two that I can send out to people. I've got two feet of PEEK just sitting here, just need to find the time.
I guess anyone that wants one, put your name down here, and that will encourage me to actually do it. Plus its finally been tested enough to know it works, so its about time I start making them.

it works like a charm!
if you order a PEEK part from taylor, keep in mind PEEK isn't cheap, and CNC machine time doesn't come for free. 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ultimaker" group.
 
There are also forums, which are the official gathering place for Ultimaker operators:
http://forum.ultimaker.com/
 
If you still want to post to this group, send email to ulti...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages