Wood filament

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James Walker

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Sep 20, 2012, 9:27:05 AM9/20/12
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Has anyone tried this:   https://grrf.de/en/catalog/spezial-material/printable-wood-fillament

Sounds interesting, but before I get some shipped all the way around the world it'd be nice to know that it worked.
Maybe someone in the EU has already given it a go?

Torsten Paul

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Sep 20, 2012, 9:43:10 AM9/20/12
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Hi!
Not yet, but I should be able to test it tomorrow :-).

ciao,
Torsten.

ddurant

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Sep 20, 2012, 9:45:44 AM9/20/12
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I think it's brand new - it showed up on G+ yesterday.
 
40 euros/kg seems a bit on the expensive side but I'd love to hear peoples reaction to how it prints and if it stays happy in a bowden rig.

Torsten Paul

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Sep 20, 2012, 9:52:26 AM9/20/12
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Hi!

On 09/20/2012 03:45 PM, ddurant wrote:
> 40 euros/kg seems a bit on the expensive side but I'd love to hear peoples
> reaction to how it prints and if it stays happy in a bowden rig.
>
Yes, I'm also a bit worried about jamming in the bowden cable or clogging the
nozzle. But I've ordered the V2 hot end so the wood filament might be a chance
for the V1 one to be a hero before it's going to be retired :D.

ciao,
Torsten.

Daid

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Sep 20, 2012, 9:53:19 AM9/20/12
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40 euros/kg is on par with the faberdashery filament I think. 0.5kg should be about 70 meter I think. The photos look really awesome, and in the description it says that it colours darker at higher temperatures. Which explains the rings in the print.

Joris [van Tubergen]

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Sep 20, 2012, 9:54:36 AM9/20/12
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We did do test prints with wood on kamermaker.com

http://www.dusarchitects.dds.nl/kamermaker/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/opening16.jpg

We had PP [polypropylene] pellets with 70% wood. Feels funny and smells funny as well. They say when you grind it, it looks really like grinded wood [but haven't tried yet].
The same supplier offers also 'leather' in pellets. It is used in injection molding products.


cheers\joris







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Chuck Ernst

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Sep 20, 2012, 12:14:17 PM9/20/12
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I need to get some of that.... very cool for "warm and fuzzy" toys.

Chuck

Dave Head

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Sep 20, 2012, 1:56:09 PM9/20/12
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O shit Joris them prints are massive

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Daid

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Sep 21, 2012, 3:52:57 AM9/21/12
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It's out of stock :(

I still have 0.5kg in my shopping cart, but there is also 10 euro shipping. They sell other filament, but only in 2.2kg rolls, which I always find a bit much...

ddurant

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Sep 24, 2012, 8:47:24 PM9/24/12
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On Thursday, September 20, 2012 9:27:26 AM UTC-4, James wrote:

tecnao

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Sep 25, 2012, 5:32:52 AM9/25/12
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Back in stock this morning, ordered 1kg.

Torsten Paul

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Sep 25, 2012, 1:25:54 PM9/25/12
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Hi!

On 09/25/2012 02:47 AM, ddurant wrote:
> Saw this via G+ today: http://garyhodgson.com/reprap/2012/09/printing-with-wood-composite/
>
Great, this gives some hope :-). My first test was just a black mess, but
I guess this might be because of some bowden cable problems that developed
lately.
I'll probably wait till the V2 hot end and a new bowden cable arrives before
trying a wood minimug.

ciao,
Torsten.

Ascended

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Sep 25, 2012, 8:20:32 PM9/25/12
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It looks like the filament has an extremely rough finish - I wonder if this will even feed through our bowden tubes.

tecnao

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Sep 26, 2012, 3:33:19 AM9/26/12
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Package is now 250gr instead of the initial 500gr. New price 72€ /kg + shipping. +80% in 5 days . If anyone knows another supplier ...

MoonCactus

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Sep 26, 2012, 4:35:04 AM9/26/12
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LOL, stop asking for it! :D
I'm glad I just placed my order yesterday night.

Thanks to homemade filament makers such as filabot, I would gladly try to make my own based of saw dust (or whatever!) and a small portion of PLA to act as the glue may be...


Daid

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Sep 26, 2012, 4:46:03 AM9/26/12
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I'm pretty confident it will. Going to order some, even tough it's pretty expensive right now.

MoonCactus

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Sep 26, 2012, 6:44:19 PM9/26/12
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FYI I just received this notification on my recent purchase:

Bestellstatus: Vorbestellung Kommentar: wood is shipping in about 3 weeks

I avoided the increased price but not the delay. Huh :'(

tecnao

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Sep 27, 2012, 2:14:49 AM9/27/12
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Same thing for me : they confirmed by email a dispatch this week, but I received another email 3 hours later with the same "vorbestellung" status.
Anyway, as I paid the initial price, I still feel it is good deal, delay is easier to accept...

Daid

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Sep 27, 2012, 4:01:30 AM9/27/12
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They have "Delivery date more than 3 weeks." on the product page. Still, I ordered 1 kg of filament. Yes, it's expensive. But not insanely expensive.

KodeMaestro

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Sep 27, 2012, 4:17:22 AM9/27/12
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I've got some of this on order too... 3 weeks wait now... But,
hopefully my replacement thermocouple will arrive from UM before
then... It would be nice if it would at least ship, it's been showing
"Payment Confirmed" since Friday and still no response from UM
support.

Troy.

MoonCactus

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Sep 27, 2012, 7:37:33 AM9/27/12
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Idem, that's why I told, I am not sure it was labelled as 3+ weeks when I clicked
On the other hand it must be hard to maintain proper stock status (unless automatic) when everyone is buying madly ;)
I just hope it will not be postponed too much (esp. since my money's gone)


MoonCactus

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Sep 28, 2012, 11:02:01 AM9/28/12
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tecnao

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Oct 19, 2012, 3:16:47 AM10/19/12
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Hi,
little feedback :
first print with wood filament is rather good, the only problem I had to face is the diameter and roughness of this material : it is rather harder to slide into the bowden tube and has slipped a few times during extrusion. This first trial needed to stay close to the machine to check if the extruder is working. Prior to this test, I had upgraded my UM with V3 bolt, V2 hot end and extruder to a kind of Bertho's with ball bearing (with home-made modifications according to my stock stuff). I also added WD40 inside the bowden tube, not sure it was really significant in final result.
My main objection is that it looks like wood, but not enough for me : color of the different layers is too homogoneous, it is like a brown part; It could have been interesting to have a variable temperature during printing, so it looks like wood fibers (as temperature is supposed to be directly linked to filament color). Not familiar enough with program, but any advice to modify the gcode is welcomed. Or implement this option in Cura ?
Sebastien.

KodeMaestro

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Oct 19, 2012, 4:07:37 AM10/19/12
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I was able to get some fairly good wood-look out of it in NetFabb
using NF's contour downskin and manually inserting M104s into the code
to change the temperature throughout. I found that I had to extrude
quite fast to prevent it from jamming myself. I also had a few bowden
feed issues because of a massive variation in the filament diameter.
However, that was mostly at the begining of my coil. Further into it
the diameter seems to have stabilized. My experiences are here:

http://forum.ultimaker.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1506

http://forum.ultimaker.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=697&start=240

Cheers,
Troy.

tecnao

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Oct 24, 2012, 9:54:57 AM10/24/12
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Hi,
today is a bad day : I have 8 parts to produce with this damned wood filament and it doesn't stop grinding. Is the problem linked to the filament diameter (rather around 3,1 mm) ? There is a HUGE friction inside the bowden tube and I nearly can't push it by hand. Do you, guys who already use this filament, have the stock bowden tube or any other tube with a higher diameter ? Thanks for your help.
Regards.
Sebastien

Jeremie Francois

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Oct 24, 2012, 10:31:22 AM10/24/12
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I bought a stiffer/thicker replacement on ebay: "teflon tube 4mm inner 6mm" (I got 12ft for $19). You'll get some pictures here:
I saw the guy had lots of different diameters.

By the way, you give me a nice reason to try the wood filament right now ;)
My feeder really reduces friction compared to the stock one, but it should make no difference if you even cannot move it by hand in the tube!
Make sure to clean up the tube, and may be add a sponge before it enters the tube if you can. I saw some people doing this to reduce particles in the tube, hence reduce overall friction.

I even read recently that someone sprayed WD40 in his tube (wow !)

tecnao

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Oct 24, 2012, 10:37:18 AM10/24/12
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It's me who already sprayed WD40 in the bowden tube. Not sufficient.

Jeremie Francois

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Oct 24, 2012, 12:00:19 PM10/24/12
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Oh :s

I just tried my LAYWOO-D3 wood filament (full ref includes LOT F0142). It is much softer than the two kind of PLA I have, the diameter is not worse either (3.0 - 3.1 mm).
I first thought I was under extruding a bit, especially because I heard bubbles popping out of the nozzle while printing. But the macros show something pretty well tuned:

I am quite happy with the results on my side (does not help you much though, sorry).


I can bend the object much more than with PLA. Really looks like MDF, and its is much harder to see the layers indeed (0.1 make walls almost invisible, but more interestingly to me, filling is MUCH nicer!)

I would not leave the filament heating for long in the nozzle as it becomes really brown (and somehow crusty), so there may be a risk to obstruct the nozzle.
Had no grinding at all when I checked carfully the feeder marks on the filament.

I guess your bowden tube is much smaller than mine (4.0 inside), since we probably had the same batch of wood filament.
Because the filament is softer than my PLA, I can easily move manually in the bowden tube, even though its much rougher on the surface.

Hope you'll get your things done :s

Jeremie Francois

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Oct 24, 2012, 12:13:38 PM10/24/12
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I forgot the smell. I really would eat it :P

Daid

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Oct 24, 2012, 1:26:47 PM10/24/12
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I got to test it yesterday, and it caused quite a bit of troubles in my machine. I'm still using the V2 extruder bolt, which might not be suited for soft materials like this. I'll try with the V3 later on (I also have a V3)

Jeremie Francois

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Oct 24, 2012, 4:56:55 PM10/24/12
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Cool, I tried a bigger object, a 80 x 75mm vase, and had absolutely no issue (1h15 at 80mm/s and 225°) , it is at the top of http://betterprinter.blogspot.fr/2012/10/review-wood-filament.html
I need to post my feeder design, it seems quite stable now since many people seem to have trouble printing this wood...

KodeMaestro

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Oct 25, 2012, 4:46:27 AM10/25/12
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I use the stock bowden tube. I did have trouble with it grinding at
one point, which I think was initially related to the large diameter
but that in turn caused an even bigger problem of burnt wood jammed in
the nozzle. After cleaning the nozzle I cut off about 30cm of the
wood filament that was about 3.2mm in diameter and havn't had a
problem since. My filament seems to mostly range from about 2.1 to
3.0mm in diameter. I only found a small section of it that was larger
than 3.0.

Cheers,
Troy.

Florian Horsch

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Oct 25, 2012, 8:10:47 AM10/25/12
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It printed beautiful during 3DPrintShow in Lodon on an up-to-date Ultimaker (v3 bolt, new extruder clamp, v2 hotend): https://plus.google.com/116416453568555193309/posts/Y7X324FpgKQ (three photos of it in the gallery)

I think Martijn printed it at 210 C.

Cheers
Flo

KodeMaestro

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Oct 25, 2012, 11:34:31 AM10/25/12
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I didn't see the objects that were printed there at the 3dPrintShow,
but I did bring my Wooden Yoda with me and showed it off to the guys
at the Ultimaker booth. They seemed quite impressed.

Cheers,
Troy.

Florian Horsch

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Oct 26, 2012, 4:20:17 AM10/26/12
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Hi Troy,

I briefly talked to you then :D I was very happy to see the nice wooden yoda for sure. We started printing the wood stuff right after you left I would say. We had some of it with us and got really excited after you showed your print around!

Thanks for passing by!
Flo

Daid

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Oct 27, 2012, 12:53:12 PM10/27/12
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Update on this, replaced the V2 with the V3 extruder bolt. I already had the spring extruder upgrade. Still using a V1 nozzle, but with this setup the wood seems to print fine. Unlike with the V2 extruder bolt.
Who knew, upgrades help!?!

(In the "upgrades help" topic, we heated up a V2 hotend to 400C by mistake, and the Peek did not melt. Guess the smaller hotzone really helps a lot. It did still smell really bad, so I do not recommend trying this)

tecnao

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Oct 29, 2012, 2:19:26 PM10/29/12
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I carry on printing wood parts, and it's still not wonderful : I can have 1 or 2 good parts, and for the 3rd one, got lot of grinding. To produce the good parts, I used a PTFE 4x6 bowden tube in which the filament agrees to slide (thanks to MoonCactus who helped me in this way), butI got incredible plugs on the hot end (V2), when I never experienced this problem with the V1.Sure the nex bowden tube is guilty, but I have to find a solution to use this tubing. The stock bowden definitively doesn't accept my wood filament. Any way, in the same time, I broke one part of my extruder and had to go back to the standard (no bearing) one. Sure it doesn't help.

Jeremie Francois

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Oct 29, 2012, 4:11:48 PM10/29/12
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I now have issues also... my wood filament just seems to degrade quickly! :(

It now breaks as soon as I bend it a bit, while I could almost bend it slowly to 90° before.
I also had one "total grinding" issue (never got some before), and if I tighten my bolt further then the filament breaks after the bolt just before entering the bowden ! Looks like it is no more usable to me.

Now, I left it on the (cold) floor being dragged into my (hot) room and some water may have condensed on it (?). I warmed it and put it in a sealed bag with dessicant, to try again later. I read somewhere that filament does like moisture, right?

Also I did some tests as 70mm/s and noticed that whenever I go > 250°, the flow almost stops (I think the wood starts to burn and clog in the nozzle). Definitely stay below 250°.
Reciprocally, I cannot go below 200 else I get the same problems, even though the seller says it's ok at 175 ?! Will post the results.

@Tecnao: may be the slicker bowden just moves the problem elsewhere?

Andrey Shur

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Oct 29, 2012, 5:40:22 PM10/29/12
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Well don't forget that the thermocouple and the heater are right next
to each other and both are outside the heater barrel, so you might
expect some discrepancy between measured values and actually what the
filament is at. My thought is, it's actually colder in the heater
barrel than it's measuring. Both because of the distance of the
sensors form the point of interest and because you are pushing more
cold filament into the heater barrel, and that filament acts like a
heat sink. In addition, the filament phase transition probably
increases the heat sink effect.

Jeremie Francois

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Oct 29, 2012, 8:17:36 PM10/29/12
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I made a plugin for Cura / Skeinforge to insert "textured" temperature changes while printing.

My first tests are here, before my filament got unusable: http://betterprinter.blogspot.fr/2012/10/shades-of-brown-with-wood-filament-via.html

The plugin is still beta, and it features a minor bug (see the post), ask me if you want to try it. You will have to install it manually (no big work though).
Also, if you have ideas, I could give them a try before I get back to it in the next days. Once it's stable I'll publish it.


Daid

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Oct 30, 2012, 3:19:36 AM10/30/12
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That looks great!

Could you email me the code? (on dai...@gmail.com) I'm working on a plugin system so having scripts like this would help :-)

5voltios

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Dec 1, 2012, 6:48:09 AM12/1/12
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Hi Troy,

Had a massive Laywood nozzle coog yesterday. at the end of a 2 hour print.
How did you clean the black charcoal residue from the nozzle?

Cheers,

Allan

Jeremie Francois

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Dec 2, 2012, 11:32:48 AM12/2/12
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I usually try with a thin wire (eg. see last pic here). Now if you let it dry as hell, it may be much more difficult and a small needle may work better, at least to "crack" the carbon...
I hope you'll be able to fix it, I always pushed fresh PLA filament after printing with wood because I don't trust it staying idle in the nozzle.
Please tell us if it works for you (some people even have to change their nozzle) :s

Jelle Boomstra

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Dec 2, 2012, 11:44:37 AM12/2/12
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I'm curious if it helps to 'glow out' your nozzle over a gas flame? If it is pure carbon that might not work anymore, but chances are you can get it out?

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Jeremie Francois

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Dec 2, 2012, 11:56:11 AM12/2/12
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Hey, still useful if you throw the heated nozzle in ice afterwards, so the thermal shock could crack the carbonized dirt... :p

5voltios

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Dec 2, 2012, 6:00:46 PM12/2/12
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Tried "glowing" the gunk out with a blowtorch...nothing. Still can't see the light through the nozzle.
Will try with a needle tomorrow, but I'm afraid what a metal needle can do to a brass .4 mm hole.
New nozzle is arriving on tuesday, it's too much of a temptation to change it.
Will give it a last try tomorrow. Even the thermal shock test :)





On Sunday, December 2, 2012 5:44:37 PM UTC+1, Jelle Boomstra wrote:

John Kicklighter

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Dec 2, 2012, 6:26:11 PM12/2/12
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While I've not had your specific problem, things I would try:  mild vibration via lightly tapping it with a hammer on a hard surface like an anvil, soak overnight in warm soapy water, penetrating oil (WD-40).

-John

KodeMaestro

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Dec 3, 2012, 5:42:12 AM12/3/12
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I used a small piece of wire. I actually found that the lead from a
1/8 watt resistor was perfect.... I too would be worried about using a
needle that is harder than the brass... I also tried 'glowing' it out
over a gas flame, but didn't have any luck with that.... The resistor
lead worked the best for me.

Regards,
Troy.

On Dec 2, 11:26 pm, John Kicklighter <j...@networktoolkit.com> wrote:
> While I've not had your specific problem, things I would try:  mild
> vibration via lightly tapping it with a hammer on a hard surface like an
> anvil, soak overnight in warm soapy water, penetrating oil (WD-40).
>
> -John
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 5:00 PM, 5voltios <5volt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Tried "glowing" the gunk out with a blowtorch...nothing. Still can't see
> > the light through the nozzle.
> > Will try with a needle tomorrow, but I'm afraid what a metal needle can do
> > to a brass .4 mm hole.
> > New nozzle is arriving on tuesday, it's too much of a temptation to change
> > it.
> > Will give it a last try tomorrow. Even the thermal shock test :)
>
> > On Sunday, December 2, 2012 5:44:37 PM UTC+1, Jelle Boomstra wrote:
>
> >> I'm curious if it helps to 'glow out' your nozzle over a gas flame? If it
> >> is pure carbon that might not work anymore, but chances are you can get it
> >> out?
>
> >> On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 5:32 PM, Jeremie Francois <jeremie....@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >>> I usually try with a thin wire (eg. see last pic here<http://betterprinter.blogspot.fr/2012/10/clean-hotend-and-nozzle.html>). Now
> >>> if you let it dry as hell, it may be much more difficult and a small needle
> >>> may work better, at least to "crack" the carbon...
> >>> I hope you'll be able to fix it, I always pushed fresh PLA filament
> >>> after printing with wood because I don't trust it staying idle in the
> >>> nozzle.
> >>> Please tell us if it works for you (some people even have to change
> >>> their nozzle) :s
>
> >>>  --
> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>
> >> --
> >> *Jelle Boomstra*
> >> Lab Manager
> >> Stichting ProtoSpace
>
> >> *Bezoekadres: Nijverheidsweg 16B, Utrecht
> >> Postadres: Postbus 10152, 3505 AC Utrecht*
> >> *T *+31 (0)30 223 08 75 | *E *je...@protospace.nl | *W *www.protospace.nl
> >> *open inloop: dinsdag middag + donderdag*

Joris [van Tubergen]

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Dec 3, 2012, 8:12:43 AM12/3/12
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>>  I always pushed fresh PLA filament after printing with wood because I don't trust it staying idle in the nozzle.
i have seen some blocked nozzle when testing different kinds of pla from different suppliers
when the nozzle gets clogged i don't want to remove and change it [because i am pretty lazy]
many times it works if you heat it up to 240-250 and push the pla through, but sometimes the PLA gets too soft in several seconds to really push it
when i use ABS it works better, you can build up more pressure
next thing i want to trie is Nylon or some other even harder to melt material to 'push' the dirt through the small hole

cheers\joris

--

5voltios

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Dec 13, 2012, 8:10:14 AM12/13/12
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Wooden stick Qtip worked beautifully to remove woodfilament clog.
Really had to heat that hot end to take out all the gunk.
First while still assembled through the Ulticontroller,
and later, while dissasembled, with a hot air gun.

Reassembled, upgraded extruder drive to v2 (so much better!) and now printing for 3 hours straight.

Happy camper!

On Monday, December 3, 2012 2:12:43 PM UTC+1, Joris van Tubergen wrote:
>>  I always pushed fresh PLA filament after printing with wood because I don't trust it staying idle in the nozzle.
i have seen some blocked nozzle when testing different kinds of pla from different suppliers
when the nozzle gets clogged i don't want to remove and change it [because i am pretty lazy]
many times it works if you heat it up to 240-250 and push the pla through, but sometimes the PLA gets too soft in several seconds to really push it
when i use ABS it works better, you can build up more pressure
next thing i want to trie is Nylon or some other even harder to melt material to 'push' the dirt through the small hole

cheers\joris



On Sunday, December 2, 2012, Jeremie Francois wrote:
Hey, still useful if you throw the heated nozzle in ice afterwards, so the thermal shock could crack the carbonized dirt... :p

On Sunday, December 2, 2012 5:44:37 PM UTC+1, Jelle Boomstra wrote:
I'm curious if it helps to 'glow out' your nozzle over a gas flame? If it is pure carbon that might not work anymore, but chances are you can get it out?

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