Puppy Question

[BenAS]

Hi all,

Just a quick one, Digby is doing well (although I swear that someone
keeps coming in to our house to swap him out for a bigger dog) and he
is now almost 9 weeks old. - the best bit is is is now sleeping for 8
hours a night without needing a pee! Awesome... I love my sleep!

Anyway, my question. if any one has any advice around what I should
be doing to be to get his habituated to being on his own that would be
great.

What we're doing at the moment: he's been with us 10 days now and as
of today we are not letting him fall a sleep on us, he can climb on us
to settle down, but then after 5 mins we pick him up and pop him in is
create and leave him on his own, he barks a couple of times then goes
to sleep (we're in the next room). This seems good.

I am keen that he can go in his crate when not tired and be happy,
like if we need to nip out, or if we need to contain him for some
reason, like having the front door open. How to we get to the stage
where we can pop him in the crate while he's awake and have him happy?
What can I expect from such a young pup.

Thanks
Ben

[Chrissie Diron]

Hi Ben

What you want to do is perfectly good, i.e. turn the crate into a comfortable place for Digby, but it needs to be trained. The biggest mistake people make is not realising that this exclusion, this isolation, this confinement if you will is not natural for a dog and he has to be taught that it is OK, it is safe, it is a good place to be. And so you need to start making the crate somewhere he chooses to be. He is very young still, so you should be able to work this into his life easily and set good foundations. A dog who chooses to be in his crate is one who is very happy in there, very relaxed and the idea of a safe haven, a den is not alien to a dog, so go with that idea. I would put the crate in a central place for now, not far from you and your daily activity. Don't aim for isolation just yet or you may well hit the screaming tantrums and they are hard to deal with and hurt, literally. So get the crate somewhere central, in your lounge for example, and leave the door open at all times. Encourage Digby to go in there by putting in nice bed, fun toys and treats. Make a game of it - throw in a treat, he potters in there, you praise him for being such a good boy. If you see him go in on his own any time, be sure to mark the occasion with praise and a treat. You are rewarding him for choosing to go to his crate, rather than sticking him in there and hoping he likes it! If necessary play very mundane games outside the crate for now and reserve high quality treats and big praise for the big behaviour, i.e. going into crate and lying down! Repeat this numerous times a day. The best toys happen IN the crate. It's all about getting Dibgy to associate the crate with good things and feeling safe and comfortable there. If he wanders in there on his own (this will happen if you promote it enough) and lies down and nods off, then you can quietly close the door, stay nearby until you are sure he's sleeping (so no tricking him and running off and he wakes up scared and alone) and then slowly and quietly move away. Watch for him waking up and try not to let him get to screaming stage, or he'll learn that screaming makes things happen. Anticipation is the name of the game. Don't wait for the bad behaviour to form - mould the behaviour you want, anticipate what he'll do and set him up to succeed. Once he's happily toddling off to his crate and choosing to sleep there, you can begin to move the crate to a more remote location. Make sure he always knows where it is though! And then practice letting him have short breaks in there, perhaps with a great chew toy or bone, just quiet downtime, not necessarily sleep, but don't wait until he's having a tantrum to let him out - again, in for a while, but before he's agitated get him out. Always leave crate door open and make sure there are things in the crate he likes so that he chooses to go there. Build up the time away from you (even if only in the room next door, this is still isolation for a dog) very slowly. I also introduce things like music playing in the background (we always leave music on when we go out) and if necessary a blanket over the crate to darken it and encourage snooze time/minimise stimulation from outside. Make a routine of these things, even if they are short sessions. Dogs like to know "what happens next" and don't panic if they are confident of the routine, so follow a pattern. You can even take him to his crate, give chew toy or something to amuse him, close door, wait until you are sure he's busy with his item, walk off quietly, no fuss, go out the door, round the house, back in again and very matter-of-factly open the crate door and carry on with your life. He will get the fact that it's OK to be there and you go, but you always come back and he can carry on chewing or come out. You mustn't make the "reunion" a bit thing - just make it a thing that people do and he'll soon get the hang of it! 

This might sound like a lot of work, but it becomes second nature and as you progress it gets easier. But do the legwork now and you'll have a dog who is always happy in a crate, home alone. Separation anxiety is created, often inadvertently, and can be avoided if the dog is introduced to these scenarios correctly from the start. It's lots of fun, honest! And the rewards are great :-)

From Chrissie and the Vitali Vizslas

DON'T SWEAT THE PETTY THINGS AND DON'T PET THE SWEATY THINGS!

www.vitalk9.ca
www.canine-health-concern.org.uk
www.aunaturelk9s.org

[Anna Nussey]

Hi Ben,

Congrats on the new addition.

>>What we're doing at the moment:  he's been with us 10 days now and as
of today we are not letting him fall a sleep on us, he can climb on us
to settle down, but then after 5 mins we pick him up and pop him in is
create and leave him on his own, he barks a couple of times then goes
to sleep (we're in the next room). This seems good.<<

My first suggestion is that you have a crate in the same room as yourselves. Dogs are highly social so it is unlikely that he will take himself away from you guys to go and sleep in another room. Having the crate in the same room as you will increase the chances of getting to the point you want.

>>I am keen that he can go in his crate when not tired and be happy,

like if we need to nip out, or if we need to contain him for some
reason, like having the front door open.  How to we get to the stage
where we can pop him in the crate while he's awake and have him happy?
What can I expect from such a young pup.<<

To get this you need to make his crate the best place to be. Feed him all his meals in there and if you have a kong make it really delicious and give it to him only when he is in his crate. During the day just scatter/hide some treats in his bedding so that if he starts to check out his crate there will be rewards waiting for him. 

Make sure that the crate is cosy - placing blankets over the top will make it more like a den and then adding blankets for him to dig in and make a nest will help it feel like his space.

Most importantly take it slowly. If you want a dog to love its crate then take the time to habituate him to it. Make it the best place ever.

I HAVE WRITTEN THIS OUT JUST TO FIND THAT CHRISSIE HAS WRITTEN VERY SIMILAR SUGGESTIONS. I am posting this to just emphasise the important points.

(great minds think alike hey Chrissie!!!)

All the best

Anna

2009/12/21 BenAS <akin...@googlemail.com>

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[Ros Leighton]

Hi Ben, I began writing this to see that Chrissie and Anna have both given
good advice.
Last week you asked another crate question and the post that I sent included
these links - I hope they were helpful...

"There are oodles and oodles of crate training articles on the net - this is
a pretty good one I think... http://www.inch.com/~dogs/cratetraining.html

Or here -
http://www.siriusweb.com/AAD/crate.html"

I think the answer to your question " What can I expect from such a young
pup." is a combination of 'not much immediately' and 'whatever you create'.

Consistency and practice... that's what creates the dog we want to own...

Whatever is rewarding will be repeated...that's the basic tenet for anything
we do with our dogs, so we need to make the crate as rewarding as possible.
Classical conditioning is an important part of dog training - Pavlov's dog
stuff... the association of his crate with positive and *highly* rewarding
events (and as Chrissie said, unexpected treats) is the way to make the
crate the place your dog wants to be. The very very best training method
I've seen for creating a positive association with the crates is Susan
Garrett's 'Crate Training' DVD - you can see some footage of her dogs and
their crate association here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebjBo_spqG0

But I guess most people won't need the high level of acceptance of crates
that she gets... It seems like Digby already has a good acceptance of the
crate, you just need to work on making it even better. I agree with Anna,
and mentioned in the previous post - I think it works best if the crate is
where you are. If social isolation is being created with the crate being in
another room, the dog will not be likely to choose that place over some time
near his humans.

Ros

-----Original Message-----
From: ukvi...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ukvi...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of BenAS

Subject: Puppy Question

[BenAS]

Brilliant thanks everyone, we have not been feeding him in his crate,
but will start to do this, we have been feeding him just out side, so
the change shouldn't be to much for him!

I will check out the youtube links now. Good news is last night he
took himself off to his crate and went to sleep. But having said that,
he's been really "bitey" today and is really testing my patience and
will not seem to go to sleep, which I can see he really needs!!

It is a bit of a learning curve, that's for sure... I can't wait to
take him out to give him some more metal stimulation, but that's not
until Jan 10th!. But we have been starting the training, he getting to
know his name and seems to be getting the hang of "sit" now, but does
get bored quite fast!!

I'm sure there will be more questions... thank you all for your
detailed replies, it really is very helpful!

Ben

[Helga Root]

Hi Ben
He is probably teething quite badly now so to save those little needle teeth
using you as teething ring, get him some puppy chewy toys, like puppy kongs,
they are very good and last a long time and you can stuff treats inside and
let him have it in his cage as a pacifier. I always used to greet my pup
with his favourite 'chewy' toy when he was teething to save my hands but
they do grow out of it so don't worry, its get better!!
Helgs

-----Original Message-----
From: ukvi...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ukvi...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of BenAS

Ben

--

[Anna Nussey]

Hi Ben,

>>It is a bit of a learning curve, that's for sure... I can't wait to
take him out to give him some more metal stimulation, but that's not
until Jan 10th!. <<

PERSONALLY, I would take him out now if he has had his first vaccination. The risk of getting a infection disease is far lower than that of getting a behaviour problem in later life due to inadequate socialisation.

When socialising always remember that it is not just the act of seeing and hearing (etc...) all the different sights and sounds but the positive experience associated with them. So take really high value treats (real meat etc...) and don't be afraid to stop people from saying hello or taking your pup out of the situation if you see him getting overwhelmed (yawning, licking lips, trying to escape, ears back, wide eyes, tail tucked, avoidance etc....)

Best of luck

Anna

[Ros Leighton]

Echo echo echo...

J

 

If you are concerned, I usually suggest that people call the local vets and ask if there is any particular high incidence of contagious disease around at present – for instance, in Australia, in some areas, parvo can be worse in summer...  but it’s so very important to get your puppy out and about.

 

Cheers

Ros

[BenAS]

Is taking him out sooner rather than later the general consensus? He
has his second jab on the 31st. the vet said 10days after that. I
would like to take him out earlier than that if possible as I know he
would like it also!

what's the general opinion?

thanks.

b

[Elaine Bradley]

I would take him out asap, I know the vets always say 7-10 days after the
last jab but I always get mine out immediately they've had their last one.
I try to avoid places where lots of dogs go, and avoid letting my pup sniff
where other dogs have peed etc.

Also remember to keep the walks short and sweet, he is a baby and he will
only need very short walks until he is 6 months old when you can start
increasing the amount of exercise you give him, no hard running with older
dogs, limited "over-exuberant" play with other dogs, even if they are same
size/age.

Take things slowly and sensibly and you'll have years of fun with your
ginger boy!!

All the best
Elaine
Highforce Hungarian Vizslak, UK
www.freewebs.com/highforce

[Suzie]

Not sure where you live - but where we are (Hampshire) I personally
wouldn't take a pup out prior to his jabs. There are hundreds of dogs
around here and I have no idea how inoculated or healthy -or not -
they are. We've never taken the risk with any of ours so I wouldn't
advise you too either. What if he got sick? It's such a short time to
wait...

Also was interested to ask you why you don't let your pup fall asleep
on you or do the whole cuddle thing. That is very contrary to how
we've always handled our very young pups and the dogs are perfectly
well behaved now in older age. They don't get on the sofa's or the
beds or anything and always sleep in their own beds in the kitchen -
but I always think that both we and they benefited from all the
cuddles and snuggles we all had when they were very little. I presume
there is a reason... can I ask what it is??

Best of luck with it all - really glad you are enjoying your new baby!!

Suzie.x.

[PennyW]

Hi Ben

I think its one of those things you have to end up just taking a view
on, its not just other unvaccinated dogs its rats too!

Could try carrying him and going to places where he will be safe,
friends houses or wherever

Penny

> > .- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[BenAS]

Thanks penny, we have been carrying him around, he was a big hit in
the local coffee shop, he must have met 30 people in 15 mins!, and in
the pub I even managed to score a free pint because of him, but have
to leave a bit of it as he was getting a little stressed and tired
(avoidance behaviour!) so I decided to go home before he decided that
pub was a bad place!

I think i might be a bit cautious about letting him walk about on the
floor, he's going to be meeting a lot of people, new houses and other
at least 3 other (vaccinated) dogs over Christmas weekend, and I
called the local vet who said Bristol has a bit of a parvovirus
problem compared to the rest of the country, so i think caution is the
way forward.

[BenAS]

Hi Susie, we do let him cuddle with us (how can you say no to a vizz
puppy!!), but when he is just about to fall sleep we pop him in his
crate, give him a cuddle and he happily falls asleep in there. This
allows us to shut the gate and get on with a few things about the
house and seems to be working in terms of him enjoying his crate and
sleeping by himself. We noticed the last few days he keeps going of
to his crate for a chew and rest!

We certainly play lots with him, but are keen that he can settle
himself to sleep when needed, so to be honest it's a bit of a mix of
on us or in the crate.

B

On Dec 23, 6:22 pm, Suzie <s...@mac.com> wrote:

[Radar Red Dog]

Hi Ben

IMHO, definitely sooner...even if you have to carry him! The more
experiences he has of "the world" the better.

We took Radar out as soon as he'd had his 1st jab - carrying him if we
were concerned about "bugs" but generally letting him walk &
experience all the different sounds, sights & smells for himself. We
went on buses, trains, hovered outside the ambulance station, were
invited in to the fire station, wandered through Poole town, went
outside a local school at going-home time etc etc! He also played with
other "safe" dogs i.e. friends dogs that had a good temperament & were
up to date with innoculations.

Go for it!!

Juliet

[Strassenbahnhaltestelle]

hi Ben, you probably have a car and most people apart from us city
folk wont use public transport, but if you do i would say take pup in
bus, train, tube right away, if only carrying for now. i met lots of
dogs at training classes that had anxiety around public transport,
tunnels, etc, because they never went anywhere where they would with
their owners when older [busy streets too]. what worked really well
for my last dog when he was a pup, radio, was to use the same little
blanket from his puppy bag [i carried him in a bag when he was too
small to walk far] wherever we went and he used to just snuggle and
sleep literally anywhere once i put it on the floor, chair etc [maybe
don't let everyone stroke him when pup is tired as it may stress too,
especially when you are trying to have a calm pup in a busy
environment like the pub]. xxAndrea

On Dec 23, 5:20 pm, Radar Red Dog <juliet.bail...@googlemail.com>
wrote:

[Susie Zarpanely]

Hi Ben, I took my puppies out in the car 3 or 4 times before they went to their new homes (12 was a bit of a mission) but we went up to the village and parked with the back up so they could see people going about their business, cars and buses hear the trains, school gates etc. As they got to 5 left they came out of the car one by one and walked around in my arms but I never put them down untill 10 days after the second injection. The story of the puppy who left home before his injections was put down in the motorway service station ans sadly was dead from parvo 10 days later, was enough to make me careful.
 
Susie
 
> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 09:07:38 -0800
> Subject: Re: Puppy Question
> From: andre...@googlemail.com
> To: ukvi...@googlegroups.com

[Ros Leighton]

J

Having started with only 5 puppies, it was MUCH easier Susie..

 

We also did things like that – took the puppies  for evening drives to get them used to the car, took them two at a time, etc.. carried them around strange places, crated them at  night, etc..

 

What a horror story to have that poor puppy die... but why would he have left home before his vaccination? It is against the breeders code of ethics with our Kennel Club equivalent in Australia to allow puppies to go to their new homes before vaccinations/or before 8 weeks..

It is extremely bad luck indeed for a puppy to succumb so quickly, given that the incubation period for the disease is 7 – 14 days...

 

I’m assuming that this was not your puppy, but wonder if the virus could possibly have been contracted prior to him leaving his home????

 

Agree completely that extreme care is needed when exposing puppies to new experiences... however, I do believe that socialisation at the appropriate time is vital to a dog’s lifelong wellbeing..

 

Regards

Ros

[Susie Zarpanely]

Hi Ros
No it wasn't one of mine nor did it come from the breeder. Here puppies sometimes leave home at 7 weeks to avoid the 8 week fear period and to create a greater human imprint. Also I only give the first injection if I am sure that the new Vet uses the same serum and the puppy only gets the 2 doses. If another serum/brand is used the poor little thing has to have the course restarted
I tend to err on the minimalistic side in case of vacs reaction 
 
Susie

---

From: rosle...@bigpond.com
To: ukvi...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Puppy Question
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 11:00:53 +1100

[Ros Leighton]

Mmm, me too if possible – I have titre tested my older dogs for many years rather than revaccinate.

 

Here we can choose to have the three core vaccines – parvo, distemper, hepatitis  in one injection – C3, or to have C5 which is the core three plus Bortadella & Canine Influenza

 

I chose C3 for my puppies, and will titre test Nina rather after her two doses (7 weeks and 12 weeks – vets recommend a third dose, but .... I’ll titre test instead) Kennel cough is difficult to vaccinate against successfully and I think the less the better for young immune systems. Also, not sure what’s happening in the UK but the Australian Veterinary Association has recently revised their vaccination protocols to 3 years rather than annually... YAY!! It’s a start in the right direction! J

 

There is some recent discussion that suggests that the Scott & Fuller research of 49 day ‘leaving home’ is no longer necessarily considered the most appropriate for puppies, (depending of course on the input from the breeder! ) and that it could be more appropriate for puppies to remain with a bitch of good temperament to learn more dog skills, but once again ONLY if the breeder is putting in the ‘hard yards’ which would be very difficult with a large litter I think...

 

Cheers