WSPR pico balloon flight from the UK
Medad rufus
- Acquire an American Amatuer radio licence. It appears to be straight forward according to recent conversations on this group. Launch from the UK and then transmit only when outside UK airspace with US ham licence.
- I understand that the balloon should be smaller than a 2m(cube? or sphere?). To comply, I would suggest making a mechanism that rolls up the long 20 meter antenna wires into a spool, that is then unfurled and then dropped off over international waters. Is this a crazy idea?
Mark Jessop
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Chris Partridge-NewsG
It's also worth noting that while WSPR does have very good low SNR performance, this is only because it's running at a super slow baud rate, and the amount of data transmitted is extremely limited. If you dialed down my 4FSK mode to 1 baud (and tweaked the modem to work as such a low rate) it would probably work over just as long a range as well...
The 'regular' WSPR spec is only going to give you a grid-square of positional accuracy, which is pretty coarse. There have been various bastardisations of the WSPR protocol to enable transmission of extra data, which I believe is how VK3YT is sending more accurate positional information. This does require a modified version of WSJT-X to decode.
All trade-offs I guess...
73Mark VK5QI
On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 12:43 PM Medad rufus <medad...@gmail.com> wrote:
Due to the ban in the UK from airborne transmissions on amatuer radio frequencies, it appears that nobody(or very few people) in the UK has attempted a WSPR long range pico balloon flight from UK soil.
The benefits of WSPR is unmatched compared to other radio modulation schemes. The range is spectacular. Just looking at PS-80, it is being received nearly 10 000km away.
<image.png>
To overcome UK restrictions and do a WSPR flight from UK soil, I propose the following steps:
- Acquire an American Amatuer radio licence. It appears to be straight forward according to recent conversations on this group. Launch from the UK and then transmit only when outside UK airspace with US ham licence.
- I understand that the balloon should be smaller than a 2m(cube? or sphere?). To comply, I would suggest making a mechanism that rolls up the long 20 meter antenna wires into a spool, that is then unfurled and then dropped off over international waters. Is this a crazy idea?
Or is there a simpler way to do this? Has anyone done it legally from UK soil?
RegardsMedad M7RUF
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John Laidler
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Kevin Walton
long :)
Cheers
Kev
On Fri, 23 Oct 2020, John Laidler wrote:
> I think if you have a NOTAM issued you could launch a balloon with the
> antenna already deployed. This would be by far the safest way as the
> antenna is typically 20m long above the payload and another 20m below it.
>
> The issue of transmission in UK airspace could be overcome by geofencing
> although given the miniscule power output would anyone notice for the few
> hours it might be over the UK?
>
> Is the ruling against WSPR something which has been confirmed by OFCOM?
> The only discussion I've seen about it made the assumption a WSPR station
> was an "unmanned beacon" which I find hard to accept as a beacon is
> something used for direction finding. I can't see an HF WSPR signal, which
> is almost indistinguishable from the background noise, being used for this
> purpose.
>
> John
>
>
> On Fri, 23 Oct 2020 at 03:13, Medad rufus <medad...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Due to the ban in the UK from airborne transmissions on amatuer radio
>> frequencies, it appears that nobody(or very few people) in the UK has
>> attempted a WSPR long range pico balloon flight from UK soil.
>>
>> The benefits of WSPR is unmatched compared to other radio modulation
>> schemes. The range is spectacular. Just looking at PS-80, it is being
>> received nearly 10 000km away.
>>
>> [image: image.png]
>>
>>
>> To overcome UK restrictions and do a WSPR flight from UK soil, I propose
>> the following steps:
>>
>> airspace with US ham licence.
>> long 20 meter antenna wires into a spool, that is then unfurled and then
>> dropped off over international waters. Is this a crazy idea?
>>
>> Or is there a simpler way to do this? Has anyone done it legally from UK
>> soil?
>>
>> Regards
>> Medad M7RUF
>>
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>> email to ukhas+un...@googlegroups.com.
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>> .
>>
>
>
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Kevin Walton
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Mark Gledhill
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Kevin Walton
I can confirm that WSPR works on 13.553Mhz.
If decoding with WSJT-X you have to tell it what band you are listening
on, and it only has the standard WSPR bands listed, so the spots get
reported as if they were heard on a standard WSPR frequency.
If listening via the web via a KiwiSDR then the inbuilt decoder wont let
you select 13.553, so you have to pipe the audio back locally to something
like WSJT-X. There is a request logged for the addition of some ISM band
options to the inbuilt decoder.
Finally, quite a few web receivers wont let you tune to 13.553, which is a
pain, but plenty will...
Cheers
Kev
>>> airspace with US ham licence.
>>> long 20 meter antenna wires into a spool, that is then unfurled and then
>>> dropped off over international waters. Is this a crazy idea?
>>>
>>> Or is there a simpler way to do this? Has anyone done it legally from UK
>>> soil?
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Medad M7RUF
>>>
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>>> .
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Steve
Medad,
Re 1) I think you first have to ask a) what does a US ham radio license give you legally and b) which US license class do you need.
With a US license I can't see a problem transmitting over the US or international waters, but in other countries airspace the only way I can see it being legal is if CEPT or IARP operation is allowed in that country** (and then only if that country allowed airborne operation in its license conditions).
CEPT operation requires the US license holder to have an Extra or Advanced class license and IARP requires Technician Plus, General, Advanced or Extra . I think for IARP you actually need to apply for a permit (the P in IARP) which is valid for about a year.
With just CEPT operation all the gray and yellow parts of this map would be excluded :-
** to be honest even that seems to be a bit of a stretch as the wording is such that it expects the licensee to be present in the country.
Re 2): I think you are talking about the UK 2m “small balloon” rule – to avoid having to get a CAA balloon launch permit. The exact wording from the regulation is:
“Small balloon” means a balloon of not more than two metres in any linear dimension at any stage of its flight, including any basket or other equipment attached to the balloon;”
Which to me means that in order to launch in the UK the balloon + antenna system cannot exceed 2m when measured tip to tip at any stage of the flight. BTW: I don't see a problem launching a balloon + HF antenna with a CAA balloon permit.
Steve G8KHW / AJ4XE
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Steve
There are indeed a number of HF frequencies in IR2030 and many are allowed airborne - but you have to find out if that frequency (and power level etc.) is legal over the country your planning to transmit over.
Steve G8KHW
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Steve
I cant see any real advantage in using 13.5MHz while over the UK and then swapping to Ham radio WSPR (it's such a small part of the flight) - I can't see how you can use your UK ham radio licence to transmit airborne even in international waters. You could maybe use it over other countries *if* CEPT allowed you to do that.
Steve G8KHW
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Steve
Ah - Bingo - maybe use 13.5MHz while over the UK and international waters licence exempt, and Ham radio WSPR (using your UK licence & CEPT) while over CEPT contries that allow airborne operation.
Steve G8KHW
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Medad rufus
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Medad rufus
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Steve
Really all the US ham licence will give you (over a UK ham license) is a legal way to transmit ham radio over international waters.
Steve G8KHW
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Steve
I personally don't have a view on CEPT one way or the other.
What I would say is if CEPT does not give permission then nothing
does and the whole Amateur Radio Pico ballooning thing would
probably be technically illegal (which would be a shame). As you
allude I think this angle is just being ignored by most.
What I suspect is if someone were to ask a regulatory body they might well get an answer they (and others) don't want to hear.
Re your Q: "why cannot a UK licence holder also transmit airborne
in the US ?" They can, as I said, (assuming CEPT allows) - the
US is a CEPT country that allows airborne operation.
Steve G8KHW
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M5AKA
Steve
Thanks Trevor - I think you said previously, but from what I read I haven't formed a conclusion either way, but yes, there are certainly requirements that suggest a physical presence in country (presenting documents etc.). For me personally it makes no difference - I have no plans to fly a Amateur Radio tracked pico flight - so I have no real incentive to wade through the fine detail of the agreement.
If CEPT type operation is not possible I can see no way a Amateur
radio based tracker would be legal transmitting above another
country. Happy for someone to correct me and point at the
appropriate regulation. I suggest anyone wanting to use amateur
radio for worldwide balloon tracking investigate the legality in
detail.
Its also worth pointing out the only international regulation I
know about that allows a balloon to cross into the airspace of
another country without explicit permission is where the balloon
is being used exclusively for meteorological purposes. I think it
would be very difficult to make that case for some (most?) amateur
radio flights.
Steve G8KHW / AJ4XE
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Medad rufus
There have been various bastardisations of the WSPR protocol to enable transmission of extra data, which I believe is how VK3YT is sending more accurate positional information. This does require a modified version of WSJT-X to decode.
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John Laidler
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Steve
Well its pretty explicit in the UK licence:
the Licensee shall not establish or use the Radio Equipment in any Aircraft or other Airborne Vehicle.
and
“Aircraft” and “Airborne
Vehicles” includes full size and models and also includes
balloons
whether tethered or free;
The latter para was added by OFCOM the last few years just to make it absolutely clear about balloons.
Lets
just say due to youthful enthusiasm I ended up in court for a
wireless telegraphy act offense - so now I tend to err on the
side of caution.
Steve
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Philip Day
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John Laidler
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