Pico launch announcement from London, UK for tomorrow, 9 March 2019

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Medad rufus

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Mar 8, 2019, 6:35:45 AM3/8/19
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Hello everybody,


This is a launch announcement for the launch of ICSPACE6 & 7 from Wormwood Scrubs, London, Uk. We have had some success with the launches of our previous pico balloons and we hope it works 100% this time. The hardware is nearly identical to the previous launch; only software changes made. The winds are expected to take it towards the Netherlands/Belgium and further east into Germany.

Here is information about our last launch of ICSPACE4 & 5 four weeks ago.
https://www.union.ic.ac.uk/guilds/icseds/2019/02/high-altitude-ballooning-group-launch-a-balloon-that-again-landed-in-the-netherlands/


Here is the information about the balloons to be launched tomorrow:

callsign: ICSPACE6
RTTY: 434.60MHz USB
50 baud
745 Hz shift
ASCII-8
no parity
2 stop bits
Launch time aim: 10:40 am
Transmits 10 pips before transmitting message. 30s gap between each transmission


callsign: ICSPACE7
RTTY: 434.25MHz USB
50 baud
745 Hz shift
ASCII-8
no parity
2 stop bits
Launch time aim: 11:40 am
Transmits 10 pips before transmitting message. 30s gap between each transmission when below 3000m. Above 3000m, it will transmit with a gap of 60 seconds.

We appreciate all listeners for our flights. I hope this flight goes well.

Regards,
Medad


Patrick van Staveren

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Mar 8, 2019, 6:45:39 AM3/8/19
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Cool.

I live not far from you but can't make this launch...I'm hoping perhaps one of the next ones I can make it. How many more are you expecting to do?

Cheers
Patrick


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stephenb...@gmail.com

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Mar 8, 2019, 7:18:22 AM3/8/19
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Hi, hope it all goes well. I live in the midlands near Wellingborough. And was wondering would you like to do a flight from here. I want to launch a Helium/Solar balloon, with a pico tracker at some point. A colab with you would be a good idea. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ukhas/7g7JWOfR0-E

Medad rufus

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Mar 8, 2019, 7:34:47 AM3/8/19
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I do not know how many launches it will take to get one around the world. I think we will be launching in a few weeks. I will try to announce the launches earlier.

Regards,
Medad

Medad rufus

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Mar 8, 2019, 8:32:31 AM3/8/19
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At the moment, we do not have plans to launch the mylar foil pico balloons from outside London. In fact, one of the reasons we do the pico balloon launches is it is possible to do it without travelling very far. However, if all goes well, we may launch a small payload on a Pawan 100g balloon, chase it and recover it. We are thinking of testing the limits of a wifi connection between ground and balloon. Perhaps your place may be suitable for a launch. Further down the pipeline, we have a big up-down weather balloon launch planned.

Regards,
Medad

On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 at 12:18, <stephenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, hope it all goes well.  I live in the midlands near Wellingborough.  And was wondering would you like to do a flight from here.  I want to launch a Helium/Solar balloon, with a pico tracker at some point.  A colab with you would be a good idea.  https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ukhas/7g7JWOfR0-E

Spike

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Mar 8, 2019, 8:40:39 AM3/8/19
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On 08/03/2019 13:32, Medad rufus wrote:
> We are thinking of testing the limits of a wifi connection between
> ground and balloon.

Erm, no. I think this is not permitted.

Spike

Steve Aerospace

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Mar 8, 2019, 8:52:38 AM3/8/19
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Er 2.4GHz wifi - yes it is -

as long as it conforms to the appropriate standards.  Its listed in
IR2030 as being allowed for airborne operation.  But not 5.8GHz wifi IIRC

    Steve
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David Akerman

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Mar 8, 2019, 8:53:37 AM3/8/19
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It is permitted - up to 10mW e.i.r.p. for the 2.4GHz band and 25mW  e.i.r.p. on the 5GHz band.

Spike

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Mar 8, 2019, 8:55:04 AM3/8/19
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My mistake sorry. I must have been thinking of 5.8GHz :(

Thank you for the correction Steve

Spike

stephenb...@gmail.com

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Mar 8, 2019, 8:55:30 AM3/8/19
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On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 1:32:31 PM UTC, Medad rufus wrote:
> At the moment, we do not have plans to launch the mylar foil pico balloons from outside London. In fact, one of the reasons we do the pico balloon launches is it is possible to do it without travelling very far. However, if all goes well, we may launch a small payload on a Pawan 100g balloon, chase it and recover it. We are thinking of testing the limits of a wifi connection between ground and balloon. Perhaps your place may be suitable for a launch. Further down the pipeline, we have a big up-down weather balloon launch planned.
>
>
> Regards,
> Medad
>
>
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 at 12:18, <stephenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, hope it all goes well.  I live in the midlands near Wellingborough.  And was wondering would you like to do a flight from here.  I want to launch a Helium/Solar balloon, with a pico tracker at some point.  A colab with you would be a good idea.  https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ukhas/7g7JWOfR0-E
>
>
>

Thanks for that info.

David Akerman

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Mar 8, 2019, 8:55:48 AM3/8/19
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Both are Steve:

image.png
image.png

David Akerman

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Mar 8, 2019, 9:03:30 AM3/8/19
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Just looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels there are bands from 5.1 to 5.9GHz and the above section is the only part mentioned in IR2030, assuming I've not missed it.

Steve Aerospace

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Mar 8, 2019, 12:12:06 PM3/8/19
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Dave - I might be wrong but: I don't think either of what you have listed are "wifi" - I think wifi is covered under "Wideband Data Transmission Systems" or  "Wireless Access Systems"  rather than "Non-specific short range devices"

Typically wifi devices use 100mW e.i.r.p on 2.4GHz and 200mW e.i.r.p on 5.8GHz.  The former is allowed airborne in IR2030 - but the latter not.

    Steve


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IR2030_1.JPG
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David Akerman

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Mar 8, 2019, 12:31:23 PM3/8/19
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Ah righty, that makes sense, cheers.

Dave

Leo Bodnar

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Mar 8, 2019, 1:44:14 PM3/8/19
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Steve,

You seem to know your IR2030 in and out! Could you please point out why the lack of "Equipment may be used airborne" in "Comments to application" column equates to "Equipment may not be used airborne."

For, example, Wireless Access Systems (WAS) at 5150-5350 and 5470-5725 MHz have explicit mention of "Aeronautical mobile use is not permitted."

So what does the absence of both "may be used airborne" and "Aeronautical mobile use is not permitted" mean.

I consider the "Equipment may be used airborne" to be an explicit approval (for various reasons) and the lack of any comments to be "we don't know why you would want to but you may if you wish."

Cheers
Leo

Steve Aerospace

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Mar 9, 2019, 7:22:01 AM3/9/19
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Leo - I take your point.

First let me say that I have no definitive information - its just
something that's my view.  Ive read IR2030 in detail several times over
the years and checked new versions as they come out.  My main reason for
thinking that we (HAB) can only use allocations that explicitly say "may
be used airborne" came from a meeting with OFCOM (actually RA at the
time - which is an indication of the date).  The meeting (before HABing
started in the UK) was to discuss airborne operation of Ham Radio
equipment in HABs, model aircraft and Rockets - there were a few
interested parties round the table (BMFA, RSGB, AMSAT - I was there on
behalf of UKRA). The meeting boiled down to - we'll investigate if we
will  let you use Ham Radio Equipment airborne (I went on to do some
testing with them) - but you can use category x in IR2030 (about v1.2 at
the time I think) which was the only category that said it could be used
airborne.  What I do know is that OFCOM (and from what I hear the CAA)
are very sensitive about the use of airborne transmissions - which is
why is not part of the amateur license. I've also tried to get a
commercial allocation in the past and it was months of resistance,
prodding and negotiations.

As for "Aeronautical mobile use is not permitted" - I'm pretty sure it
always says "The apparatus may also be used airborne within an aircraft"
thereafter.   I think is just a way of saying you can use it airborne -
but only within the (attenuating) confines of an aircraft.

Perhaps we should seek a definitive view from OFCOM - but I'm a bit
concerned about rocking the boat.

    Steve

Steve Aerospace

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Mar 9, 2019, 8:19:04 AM3/9/19
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Also as a rider - at the meeting I remember someone (I think it was the
BMFA chap) asking about other license exempt frequencies from aircraft
to ground and being told no.

    Steve

Leo Bodnar

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Mar 9, 2019, 3:30:58 PM3/9/19
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Steve,

Thanks for the comments.

It would be nice if OFCOM could explicitly clarify their default position towards airborne use in their documentation, but if this can inadvertently tighten existing regime perhaps it should be left as is.

Most pressure to clean up and simplify the ISM rules is probably coming from exploded use of drones anyway.

Cheers
Leo

Steve Aerospace

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Mar 10, 2019, 8:24:53 AM3/10/19
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Yeah - not too sure if there is much to be gained by asking and a lot to
loose.

I put all the versions of IR2030 I could find up on my google drive here:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1HXvl3L1KwVSuJomd-tbpOY6zdhMZyJuD?usp=sharing

The 2008 version is perhaps the most interesting with wording like "may
also be used for airborne use" " airborne use is permitted" "may be used
for airborne applications "

Don't get me on CAP393.

    Steve
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