Mapping F16 ... F20

[montanajava “Cliff”]

I have a physical keyboard with the above keys. Does Ukelele allow me to map them in some form or fashion and if so how? 

The same goes for PrintScrn ScrollLock and Pause.

Thanks for any feedback in advance.

[John Brownie]

On 2 Jul 2023 at 08:49:05, montanajava “Cliff” <monta...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have a physical keyboard with the above keys. Does Ukelele allow me to map them in some form or fashion and if so how? 

The same goes for PrintScrn ScrollLock and Pause.

Short answer: no.

Keyboard layouts don’t make a difference with these types of keys, so Ukelele is not helpful here. If you want to map them somehow, then a keyboard macro program is what you want, e.g. Karabiner Elements (https://karabiner-elements.pqrs.org/) or Keyboard Maestro (https://www.keyboardmaestro.com/main/).

John

[montanajava “Cliff”]

Hi all,

With a Japanese layout, how do I get the key left of backspace and left of right shift to appear so I can map them?

Thanks much for any suggestions!

[John Brownie]

I haven't used a Japanese keyboard, so some things may or may not work.

The first approach would be to specify a JIS layout when choosing what
appears on the screen. From the View menu, Keyboard Type allows you to
choose a keyboard type, including whether it is ANSI, ISO or JIS.

If that doesn't get you what you need, then open the Inspector and see
what key codes are generated by pressing these keys. Then you can change
the output by using the key code.

Having said that, I have a feeling that those keys are used for
assembling characters, and sort of function as special, non-alphanumeric
keys, meaning that mapping them doesn't get you what you expect. I'm not
at my development machine now, so I can't tell you at the moment whether
those keys are listed as protected from change by Ukelele. The way to
find out is to try, of course.

Hope that helps,

John

[Gé van Gasteren]

Indeed, when I change the View > Keyboard Type to JIS, the two mentioned keys are shown in the onscreen diagram.

But there’s something weird going on all right: 

I can’t change any key in that View without Ukelele crashing!

I tried several ways: double-clicking and typing ("Enter the new output string"); dragging another key; changing the output with Edit Key (see below) – every one of these methods caused a crash.

In the ISO view, I am able to assign some output ("@1" and "@2") to those two keys by using the command Keyboard > Edit Key… and entering their key codes (93 and 94).

Then, when I change the View back to JIS, everything seems to work normally, as long as I don’t try to edit.

I haven’t tested installing the layout and using it. Is that even possible without a hardware JIS keyboard?

[montanajava “Cliff”]

Thanks folks for taking a look. I can get the two keys to appear as well, but in contrast to Gém I can edit them without a crash. 

I am seeing another problem, which is that the key to the left of the "1" key is not present, regardless of the layout selected in View/Keyboard Type...

I would say that I am probably able to move forward via the same workaround Gé mentioned, but in my case for the key left of the 1, i.e. Key Code 50. I have the happy situation of no crashing.

<Screenshot 2023-09-13 at 10.08.18.jpg>

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[Gé van Gasteren]

Great! Maybe Ukelele has that problem only when no hardware JIS keyboard is connected?

Actually, working via the key code is quite a powerful method, where you can quickly assign outputs to all the different keysets (Unshift, Shift, Option, etc.)

I also have a question for John (I know, this is becoming quite a messy thread and I should start a new one, really):

I’m not sure when this started, but some fields in dialog boxes don’t seem to adapt properly to the system font, or something of that sort:

[John Brownie]

On 13 Sep 2023 at 11:20:52, Gé van Gasteren <gevang...@gmail.com> wrote:

Indeed, when I change the View > Keyboard Type to JIS, the two mentioned keys are shown in the onscreen diagram.
But there’s something weird going on all right: 
I can’t change any key in that View without Ukelele crashing!
I tried several ways: double-clicking and typing ("Enter the new output string"); dragging another key; changing the output with Edit Key (see below) – every one of these methods caused a crash.

It doesn’t crash for me, so I don’t know what’s going on. Can you give me step-by-step instructions to reproduce the crash?

John

[Gé van Gasteren]

It doesn’t crash for me, so I don’t know what’s going on. Can you give me step-by-step instructions to reproduce the crash?

It didn’t for the OP either, so maybe it’s just my Mac.

Also: it doesn’t crash when I open an existing keyboard layout or use the "New from Current Input Source" command, only with the empty layout that is shown when I open Ukelele.

Steps:

Open Ukelele; switch View > Keyboard Type to JIS; double-click a key; type a letter for the new output; click away from the key or click on Done.

I’ll attach the crash report.

The Keyboard Type I have set as the default is "Powerbook USB Internal", so to check if that could be a factor, I randomly picked "USB Pro with F16". Result was the same.

[John Brownie]

OK, that was enough for me to reproduce the crash. It seems to require a particular group of settings:

• the System Preferences have to be set not to reopen windows when starting applications
• the keyboard type needs to be JIS
• the “JIS Only” setting has to be on

With those, I get the crash, so I can look to fix it.

John

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[Gé van Gasteren]

:-)  I have no idea where to look for two of those three settings anyway. Is that all in the crash report? 

Anyway, good that you found it, although it seems like a *really* rare thing all right!

[John Brownie]

On 4 Oct 2023 at 16:51:48, Gé van Gasteren <gevang...@gmail.com> wrote:

:-)  I have no idea where to look for two of those three settings anyway. Is that all in the crash report? 

No, the crash report showed me where it was crashing, and I was able to work backwards from that. I have a fix, and will produce a new version at some point soon. There’s still a bug that I haven’t tracked down yet, so I’d like to get that fixed too.

The System Preferences option is in Desktop & Dock (at least on Ventura), and it is “Close windows when quitting an application”. If you turn that on, then all the open windows are automatically closed when quitting any application, so it doesn’t try to restore open windows when you next start it.

The JIS Only option is in the Toolbox of Ukelele. It controls whether you are changing the output for JIS keyboards only (setting on), or for all keyboard types (setting off). There are usually a few JIS overrides where you expect different output from a key when it is a Japanese keyboard.

John

[Gé van Gasteren]

OK, thanks for the explanation.

It mainly shows me that there is much more to Ukelele than has met my eye so far :-)

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