Problem with Logitech French layout
Jérôme DESPATIS
I've a Logitech MX3200 keyboard (but in fact I have the same problem
with an Asus Keyboard), I'm using the Logitech French Layout from
Ukelele
I'm quite happy because nearly all is good, except the < > symbols
-> impossible to make them appear whenever I type in < > on my
keyboard
The strange thing, is that, when I look at the keyboard viewer on the
Mac, I can see at the very first beginning this image:
http://tinypic.com/r/jfdx88/5
Which is good, because it maps correctly my keyboard, and the < > are
at the right place...
But when I type one character (anyone), some keys (the < and > indeed)
are changing in the keyboard viewer, as you can see here:
http://tinypic.com/r/2d3v3c/5
And then I cannot type in the < and > symbols (with the equivalent
keys in my keyboard)
However I can type in those symbols by striking the key at the very
left of the '&' key
I'm using Mac OS X 10.6.8
Any idea on how to correct this issue ?
Thanks for your help !
Sorin Paliga
One screenshot shows an AZERTY ISO extended keyboard, with an extra key left to W Ior left to Z on qwerty) and the other one an adapted AZERTY keylayout for a U.S. keyboard, which is missing that key. Now, when you have a physical U.S. keyboard (without that key left to W), those chars are moved left to 1, therefore < and > are moved there, and what has been there, i.e. @ and # • Ÿ are moved to other levels at option level.
Therefore, if your physical keyboard is without that extra key, which is usual in Europe with all Apple keyboards (just because of that), you have symbols moved left to 1, but you should access them anyway: if an ISO extended keyboard, left to W, if U.S., left to 1. It is not clear why you cannot acces them, I activated French and all seems OK. My Macbook also has U.S. keyboard, i.e. without that extra key, but I have an external keyboard, which is ISO extended; I can access < and > in the two ways mentioned, activating French keylayout.
If I miss something, please repeat.
Greetings from Bucharest
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John Brownie
the Mac, the Keyboard Viewer will initially show the standard
keyboard, which is normally the built-in keyboard on a laptop, or the
supplied keyboard with a desktop. Afterwards, it will always reflect
the last keyboard which provided a key event (key down, key up, or key
auto-repeat). Apple really only knows about their keyboards, so non-
Apple keyboards get the best approximation rather than being
faithfully represented.
When editing the keyboard layout in Ukelele, you should try to match
the keyboard type with the (hardware) keyboard with which you want to
use it. That minimises surprises, but can be tricky to get right. You
should experiment with the different keyboard types and find one that
matches the Keyboard Viewer if you can.
John
Despatis Jerome
Thanks for your answers
To be more precise, I have a European Mac Book Air (with an extra key on the left of W):
http://tinypic.com/r/3345ehl/7
I then plug in the logitech external MX3200 keyboard: (the picture is cropped, but numpad is outside on the right, just to show you the key on the left of the W)
http://tinypic.com/r/ja7vup/5
I've also tried with the asus keyboard (same thing, the image is cropped, but numpad is outside on the right, just to show you the ley on the left of the W):
http://tinypic.com/r/w7xumg/7
-> as you can see, on all my keyboards, I have this extra key (<, >) on the left of W
So I don't understand well, by the keyboard viewer doesn't show anymore (after I type on some key) this extra key on the left of W (whatever keyboard I'm using indeed, the internal or the external, let it be the logitech one or the asus one)
I'm lost :)
Thanks for your help
Jérôme DESPATIS
> So I don't understand well, by the keyboard viewer doesn't show anymore (after I type on some key) this extra key on the left of W (whatever keyboard I'm using indeed, the internal or the external, let it be the logitech one or the asus one)
-> But, if I type with the external keyboard, then the< and> symbols move to another place, really strange...
Thanks for your help
Le 27 f�vr. 2012 � 09:30, Despatis Jerome a �crit :
> Hello
>
> Thanks for your answers
>
> To be more precise, I have a European Mac Book Air (with an extra key on the left of W):
> http://tinypic.com/r/3345ehl/7
>
> I then plug in the logitech external MX3200 keyboard: (the picture is cropped, but numpad is outside on the right, just to show you the key on the left of the W)
> http://tinypic.com/r/ja7vup/5
>
> I've also tried with the asus keyboard (same thing, the image is cropped, but numpad is outside on the right, just to show you the ley on the left of the W):
> http://tinypic.com/r/w7xumg/7
>
> -> as you can see, on all my keyboards, I have this extra key (<,>) on the left of W
>
> So I don't understand well, by the keyboard viewer doesn't show anymore (after I type on some key) this extra key on the left of W (whatever keyboard I'm using indeed, the internal or the external, let it be the logitech one or the asus one)
>
> I'm lost :)
>
> Thanks for your help
>
> Le 27 f�vr. 2012 � 06:21, John Brownie a �crit :
>
>> Sorin is correct. When you have more than one keyboard connected to
>> the Mac, the Keyboard Viewer will initially show the standard
>> keyboard, which is normally the built-in keyboard on a laptop, or the
>> supplied keyboard with a desktop. Afterwards, it will always reflect
>> the last keyboard which provided a key event (key down, key up, or key
>> auto-repeat). Apple really only knows about their keyboards, so non-
>> Apple keyboards get the best approximation rather than being
>> faithfully represented.
>>
>> When editing the keyboard layout in Ukelele, you should try to match
>> the keyboard type with the (hardware) keyboard with which you want to
>> use it. That minimises surprises, but can be tricky to get right. You
>> should experiment with the different keyboard types and find one that
>> matches the Keyboard Viewer if you can.
>>
>> John
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ukelele Users" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to ukelel...@googlegroups.com.
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>>
--
J�r�me Despatis
jer...@despatis.com
Sorin Paliga
In this case, this is, say, a bug in Mac OS X, but do not know whether Apple would consider this a bug as long as it is not an Apple physical keyboard. What I can test here is that, if an external ISO extended keyboard is attached (apple), Keyboard Viewer displays the external keyboard, not the internal keyboard, which is U.S., without that extra key.
Anyway, you should be able to access those chars, I can do that even if I use a non-Apple kbd
Sorin Paliga
On PCs, behavior is indeed different, they do not move, they stay where they are, disregarding whether ISO or US keyboard.
Best
On 27.02.2012, at 10:44, Jérôme DESPATIS wrote:
> Hum little mistake on my last mail, concerning my last sentence:
>> So I don't understand well, by the keyboard viewer doesn't show anymore (after I type on some key) this extra key on the left of W (whatever keyboard I'm using indeed, the internal or the external, let it be the logitech one or the asus one)
> -> Well, all work as expected, when I type on the internal keyboard, I can see the< > symbols on the left of the W, even when I type one key (anyone)
>
> -> But, if I type with the external keyboard, then the< and> symbols move to another place, really strange...
>
> Thanks for your help
>
>
> Le 27 févr. 2012 à 09:30, Despatis Jerome a écrit :
>
>> Hello
>>
>> Thanks for your answers
>>
>> To be more precise, I have a European Mac Book Air (with an extra key on the left of W):
>> http://tinypic.com/r/3345ehl/7
>>
>> I then plug in the logitech external MX3200 keyboard: (the picture is cropped, but numpad is outside on the right, just to show you the key on the left of the W)
>> http://tinypic.com/r/ja7vup/5
>>
>> I've also tried with the asus keyboard (same thing, the image is cropped, but numpad is outside on the right, just to show you the ley on the left of the W):
>> http://tinypic.com/r/w7xumg/7
>>
>> -> as you can see, on all my keyboards, I have this extra key (<,>) on the left of W
>>
>> So I don't understand well, by the keyboard viewer doesn't show anymore (after I type on some key) this extra key on the left of W (whatever keyboard I'm using indeed, the internal or the external, let it be the logitech one or the asus one)
>>
>> I'm lost :)
>>
>> Thanks for your help
>>
>> Le 27 févr. 2012 à 06:21, John Brownie a écrit :
>>
>>> Sorin is correct. When you have more than one keyboard connected to
>>> the Mac, the Keyboard Viewer will initially show the standard
>>> keyboard, which is normally the built-in keyboard on a laptop, or the
>>> supplied keyboard with a desktop. Afterwards, it will always reflect
>>> the last keyboard which provided a key event (key down, key up, or key
>>> auto-repeat). Apple really only knows about their keyboards, so non-
>>> Apple keyboards get the best approximation rather than being
>>> faithfully represented.
>>>
>>> When editing the keyboard layout in Ukelele, you should try to match
>>> the keyboard type with the (hardware) keyboard with which you want to
>>> use it. That minimises surprises, but can be tricky to get right. You
>>> should experiment with the different keyboard types and find one that
>>> matches the Keyboard Viewer if you can.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ukelele Users" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to ukelel...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to ukelele-user...@googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/ukelele-users?hl=en.
>>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jérôme Despatis
> jer...@despatis.com
Jérôme DESPATIS
> You mean (not clear) that both the external keyboards are also ISO extended, therefore do have that key, but the keyboard viewer does not display it?
moves the key (<) on the left of 1, when I type a char on the external
keyboard...
> In this case, this is, say, a bug in Mac OS X, but do not know whether Apple would consider this a bug as long as it is not an Apple physical keyboard. What I can test here is that, if an external ISO extended keyboard is attached (apple), Keyboard Viewer displays the external keyboard, not the internal keyboard, which is U.S., without that extra key.
>
> Anyway, you should be able to access those chars, I can do that even if I use a non-Apple kbd
Yes, I can access the key on non apple kbd, but by pressing the key near
1, where � is printed instead, not so nice...
>
> On 27.02.2012, at 10:30, Despatis Jerome wrote:
>
>> Hello
>>
>> Thanks for your answers
>>
>> To be more precise, I have a European Mac Book Air (with an extra key on the left of W):
>> http://tinypic.com/r/3345ehl/7
>>
>> I then plug in the logitech external MX3200 keyboard: (the picture is cropped, but numpad is outside on the right, just to show you the key on the left of the W)
>> http://tinypic.com/r/ja7vup/5
>>
>> I've also tried with the asus keyboard (same thing, the image is cropped, but numpad is outside on the right, just to show you the ley on the left of the W):
>> http://tinypic.com/r/w7xumg/7
>>
>> -> as you can see, on all my keyboards, I have this extra key (<,>) on the left of W
>>
>> So I don't understand well, by the keyboard viewer doesn't show anymore (after I type on some key) this extra key on the left of W (whatever keyboard I'm using indeed, the internal or the external, let it be the logitech one or the asus one)
>>
>> I'm lost :)
>>
>> Thanks for your help
>>
>> Le 27 f�vr. 2012 � 06:21, John Brownie a �crit :
>>
>>> Sorin is correct. When you have more than one keyboard connected to
>>> the Mac, the Keyboard Viewer will initially show the standard
>>> keyboard, which is normally the built-in keyboard on a laptop, or the
>>> supplied keyboard with a desktop. Afterwards, it will always reflect
>>> the last keyboard which provided a key event (key down, key up, or key
>>> auto-repeat). Apple really only knows about their keyboards, so non-
>>> Apple keyboards get the best approximation rather than being
>>> faithfully represented.
>>>
>>> When editing the keyboard layout in Ukelele, you should try to match
>>> the keyboard type with the (hardware) keyboard with which you want to
>>> use it. That minimises surprises, but can be tricky to get right. You
>>> should experiment with the different keyboard types and find one that
>>> matches the Keyboard Viewer if you can.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ukelele Users" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to ukelel...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to ukelele-user...@googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/ukelele-users?hl=en.
>>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ukelele Users" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to ukelel...@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to ukelele-user...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/ukelele-users?hl=en.
>>
Jérôme DESPATIS
When I've first plugged in the keyboard, Mac has said it couldn't
recognize the keyboard, and has asked me to push the key on the very
right of the ALT (to guess if there's an extra key between the ALT and
the W I guess)
=> I've been able then to choose the ISO European keyboard, or Mac, or
Japan.
I remember I've done several tests to check if one setting could work...
Maybe my last try was wrong
The problem, is that now, I can't force anymore the Mac to ask me this
question again (to choose another option)
I've resetted the P-RAM, but same thing, no more possible to make this
question appear again...
You know how to make the keyboard not recognized again by the Mac ?
indeed to make the Mac forget it completely ?
Last day, in the preferences > Keyboard, there was a button to change
the keyboard, but this button isn't shown anymore...
Thanks
Le 27/02/2012 14:45, Sorin Paliga a �crit :
> No, it is not strange, this is the normal behavior with Mac OS, any generation: the chars on the key left to Z (on qwerty) or W (on azerty), if that key exists, is moved to the key left to 1, which is logical, as long as key left to Z/W does not exist.
> On PCs, behavior is indeed different, they do not move, they stay where they are, disregarding whether ISO or US keyboard.
>
> Best
> On 27.02.2012, at 10:44, J�r�me DESPATIS wrote:
>
>> Hum little mistake on my last mail, concerning my last sentence:
>>> So I don't understand well, by the keyboard viewer doesn't show anymore (after I type on some key) this extra key on the left of W (whatever keyboard I'm using indeed, the internal or the external, let it be the logitech one or the asus one)
>> -> Well, all work as expected, when I type on the internal keyboard, I can see the< > symbols on the left of the W, even when I type one key (anyone)
>>
>> -> But, if I type with the external keyboard, then the< and> symbols move to another place, really strange...
>>
>> Thanks for your help
>>
>>
>> Le 27 f�vr. 2012 � 09:30, Despatis Jerome a �crit :
>>
>>> Hello
>>>
>>> Thanks for your answers
>>>
>>> To be more precise, I have a European Mac Book Air (with an extra key on the left of W):
>>> http://tinypic.com/r/3345ehl/7
>>>
>>> I then plug in the logitech external MX3200 keyboard: (the picture is cropped, but numpad is outside on the right, just to show you the key on the left of the W)
>>> http://tinypic.com/r/ja7vup/5
>>>
>>> I've also tried with the asus keyboard (same thing, the image is cropped, but numpad is outside on the right, just to show you the ley on the left of the W):
>>> http://tinypic.com/r/w7xumg/7
>>>
>>> -> as you can see, on all my keyboards, I have this extra key (<,>) on the left of W
>>>
>>> So I don't understand well, by the keyboard viewer doesn't show anymore (after I type on some key) this extra key on the left of W (whatever keyboard I'm using indeed, the internal or the external, let it be the logitech one or the asus one)
>>>
>>> I'm lost :)
>>>
>>> Thanks for your help
>>>
>>> Le 27 f�vr. 2012 � 06:21, John Brownie a �crit :
>>>
>>>> Sorin is correct. When you have more than one keyboard connected to
>>>> the Mac, the Keyboard Viewer will initially show the standard
>>>> keyboard, which is normally the built-in keyboard on a laptop, or the
>>>> supplied keyboard with a desktop. Afterwards, it will always reflect
>>>> the last keyboard which provided a key event (key down, key up, or key
>>>> auto-repeat). Apple really only knows about their keyboards, so non-
>>>> Apple keyboards get the best approximation rather than being
>>>> faithfully represented.
>>>>
>>>> When editing the keyboard layout in Ukelele, you should try to match
>>>> the keyboard type with the (hardware) keyboard with which you want to
>>>> use it. That minimises surprises, but can be tricky to get right. You
>>>> should experiment with the different keyboard types and find one that
>>>> matches the Keyboard Viewer if you can.
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ukelele Users" group.
>>>> To post to this group, send email to ukelel...@googlegroups.com.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to ukelele-user...@googlegroups.com.
>>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/ukelele-users?hl=en.
>>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> J�r�me Despatis
>> jer...@despatis.com
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ukelele Users" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to ukelel...@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to ukelele-user...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/ukelele-users?hl=en.
>>
Sorin Paliga
>
> When I've first plugged in the keyboard, Mac has said it couldn't recognize the keyboard, and has asked me to push the key on the very right of the ALT (to guess if there's an extra key between the ALT and the W I guess)
That routine setting just informs the system about the type of keyboard, because various manufacturers put some keys, mainly on the right side, in various locations.
>
> => I've been able then to choose the ISO European keyboard, or Mac, or Japan.
> I remember I've done several tests to check if one setting could work...
>
> Maybe my last try was wrong
>
> The problem, is that now, I can't force anymore the Mac to ask me this question again (to choose another option)
> I've resetted the P-RAM, but same thing, no more possible to make this question appear again...
>
> You know how to make the keyboard not recognized again by the Mac ? indeed to make the Mac forget it completely ?
>
> Last day, in the preferences > Keyboard, there was a button to change the keyboard, but this button isn't shown anymore...
Try to clean system cache with Onyx (download version appropriate for your system), then restart.
I have also used various non-Apple keyboards, and always things were under control. I could even set volume up-down with a 3rd party utility, I forgot its name. Also brightness up-down via key combinations on non-Apple keyboards.
>
> Thanks
>
> Le 27/02/2012 14:45, Sorin Paliga a écrit :
>> No, it is not strange, this is the normal behavior with Mac OS, any generation: the chars on the key left to Z (on qwerty) or W (on azerty), if that key exists, is moved to the key left to 1, which is logical, as long as key left to Z/W does not exist.
>> On PCs, behavior is indeed different, they do not move, they stay where they are, disregarding whether ISO or US keyboard.
>>
>> Best
>>> Jérôme Despatis
>>> jer...@despatis.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ukelele Users" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to ukelel...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to ukelele-user...@googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/ukelele-users?hl=en.
>>>
>
>
> --
> Jérôme Despatis
Geke
As John wrote, the problem is caused by the Mac OS having to guess how
your keyboard works exactly. Mac-compatible keyboards are built in
such a way that they work as the OS expects, but other keyboards may
work differently.
When you first open the keyboard viewer, it shows the layout for the
default keyboard, and when you type on the other keyboard, it switches
to the layout type it thinks matches that just-used keyboard.
To get the preferences panel to show that button again, you can delete
(or safer: move to a different folder) the .plist file:
/Library/Preferences/com.apple.keyboardtype.plist
Happy typing!
Despatis Jerome
the Mac has asked me this question again thanks to your help, and I've been able then to put the good setting
-> and now all is perfectly working, I can switch from the apple keyboard to a logitech keyboard (or asus keyboard), no problem any more
Thanks again for your help, and god bless the layouts in ukelele, could do nothing without them...