Key swap

[Benoit Leraillez]

Hello,

I have two hardware keys that exchanged their characters : 

The key @/#  types </> and the key with  </> types @/#.

On the Ukelele keyboard image there are no errors or modification, the key displays the hardware's key. If I change keyboard to MacOS keyboard the problem stays but if I delete my ukelele keyboards the problem disappears.

Do you have any idea ?

T.I.A.

MacOS 26.6.2

Ukelele 3.6.1 (457)

MacBook M4 Pro

French keyboard (azerty)

[Tom]

Having those keys switched may mean your machine thinks the keyboard is ANSI US instead of ISO European. But not clear to me how Ukelele keyboard would cause that

[John Brownie]

I’m just wondering if you are relying on the on-screen keyboard in Ukelele matching your hardware. Apple stopped giving keyboard layout descriptions in an accessible place quite a few years ago, so what Ukelele shows will usually not match your hardware. So you need to try a few different keyboard display types to see what works best for you, and the ISO/ANSI differences may be an issue.

If you want to share your keyboard layout, that would help us see the problem and hopefully find a solution.

John

[Benoit Leraillez]

Nope, my system and hardware keyboards are Français : AZERTY and not QWERTY

Just two keys are swapped if a Ukelele keyboard is installed and even if it is not selected. I removed it from library/Keyboard Layouts and the key's problem disappeared. I added it again and the problem was back.

[Tom]

I wasn't talking about azerty/qwerty, which is irrelevant.  ANSI hardware has one key less and ISO hardware, namely the key next to right shift.  If your machine for some reason mistakenly thinks your hardware is ANSI, it moves the key next to right shift to the key below ESC.

[Benoit Leraillez]

Le lundi 21 septembre 2026 à 18:37:16 UTC+2, John Brownie a écrit :

If you want to share your keyboard layout, that would help us see the problem and hopefully find a solution.

John

Thank you.

Here's the « official » keyboard :

 

My Ukelele keyboard with the arrow showing the two keys that are modified when typing :

 

[Benoit Leraillez]

As Tom proposed, here are the keyboard files. Note that everything is back to normal if I remove my keyboard files from the system and if I add them the error is back whatever keyboard I choose (mine or Apple).

[Cliff G]

My experience with using Ukelele custom layouts on a non-Apple keyboard has been that the afore-mentiomed keys are swapped vis-à-vis a built-in Apple keyboard on a laptop or one of Apple manufacture, e.g. a Magic Keyboard.

For that situation I create a profile in Karabiner Elements and swap said keys for a specific keyboard only. The Ukelele layout continues to apply to all layouts. The attached screenshots illustrate what I am trying to convey.

I cannot explain why this is, only state that the above worked for me.

Cliff

[John Brownie]

I installed the Français Perso keyboard layout. For some reason, when I activate it in my email app, it immediately shifts back to my default keyboard layout, and won’t let me try it out. I wonder if it is that there is no language associated with it, but I will try to dig further to work that one out. I was able to activate it in BBEdit, so I could use it there.

I have an ISO iMac keyboard, and this is what I get when I type each key on the keyboard:

@&é"’(§è!çà)-

azertyuiop^$

qsdfghjklmù`

<wxcvbn,;:=

That’s what I see in Ukelele, so I don’t appear to have the behaviour that you mentioned in the first email. So it’s a bit of a puzzle!

John

[John Brownie]

Taking my own advice and logging out and logging in, I can use the keyboard layout in my email program. I still don’t know why it shows as not being for any particular language (grouped in Others in the Edit Input Sources dialog), when it is definitely set for French. The two keys in question still work properly for me, so I’m not sure what the problem is.

[Sorin Paliga]

UKELELE and Karabiner have completely different functions. Karabiner may change the system functions, e.g. how option, command or control keys work. This is useful for those who are accustomed to a certain type of physical keyboards. UKELELE cannot do this and was not designed to do. It has the purpose to add various key combinations in order to get characters otherwise ‘invisible’ with the keyboard layouts included in the system. It does not change the function of the system keys, this may be done via Ksrabiner.  

Sorin Paliga

Sent from my iPhone

On 23 Sep 2026, at 14:01, 'John Brownie' via Ukelele Users <ukelel...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



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[Gé van Gasteren]

On Tue, Sep 22, 2026 at 5:27 PM Benoit Leraillez <lera...@gmail.com> wrote:

As Tom proposed, here are the keyboard files. Note that everything is back to normal if I remove my keyboard files from the system and if I add them the error is back whatever keyboard I choose (mine or Apple).

 

Benoit, two questions, even though they are rather far-fetched:

• Have you hand-edited the XML code of your custom keyboard layouts after Ukelele generated them?

• And: Do you have any software installed that runs in the background and influences typing? You know, Karabiner or any such app?

[Benoit Leraillez]

Le mercredi 23 septembre 2026 à 14:01:39 UTC+2, Gé van Gasteren a écrit :

On Tue, Sep 22, 2026 at 5:27 PM Benoit Leraillez <lera...@gmail.com> wrote:

As Tom proposed, here are the keyboard files. Note that everything is back to normal if I remove my keyboard files from the system and if I add them the error is back whatever keyboard I choose (mine or Apple).

 

Benoit, two questions, even though they are rather far-fetched:

• Have you hand-edited the XML code of your custom keyboard layouts after Ukelele generated them?

No 

 

• And: Do you have any software installed that runs in the background and influences typing? You know, Karabiner or any such app?

Yes, I have Karabiner-Elements 16.3.0. I removed it and everything is back to normal. 

Thank you very much.

 

[Gé van Gasteren]

Thanks, Benoit,

That is very valuable information! 

I should mention that Karabiner Elements has been discussed on this forum before, but never has any such incompatibility come up.

It may be connected with newer macOS versions only, who knows.

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